Is "play everything in 12 keys" good advice?
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- Is learning to play jazz in 12 keys something you must do? This lesson explores the truth behind this common jazz advice, discussing its importance, flaws, and practical benefits. We'll talk about what you need to know and go through an example on a tune.
▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 Introduction
5:28 What to do
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All I can say the proof is in the pudding for me. I took Shan’s advice, I’m now focusing on playing 10-15 tunes which I mostly learned in their “home keys” in C then F, then B Flat so the all become solid. I’m doing the prep work for Eb all the chords in the key, all the 2-5s to the chords in the key, all the common progressions, and then I’ll try simple tunes I know in the other keys in Eb. So I won’t be lost at sea, just stretching my envelope in a focused way. All tunes will be understood better, and I’ve avoided being overwhelmed. It works because it matches where I am in my journey. I’m a completely different player to I was 12 months ago. Thank you Shan.
OK but I'm still gonna eat potato chips with bad posture. There is no force in the universe that can change that.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
it’s amazing the things one can stumble upon when you think you’re looking for something else.
While watching this I realize that a super common move that I’ve never really focused on is when a secondary dominant turns into the ii of a ii V I like here at bar four when the B-flat 7 turns into a B-flat minor seven.
So I just took 10 minutes and focused on how to turn any dominant chord into a min7 and now have that move under my fingers to use at will.
What a great arrow to add to my quiver!
Thanks. 😉
Dude I was thinking the same! Do you have any inner movements (leading tone) ideas to get the Bb7 to Bb-7? Obviously D to Db , but how about any upper extensions? Maybe b7 to root?
I'm learning Stolen Moments for Big Band (Key Eb or C minor?) and got the chord progression down. Then I randomly listened to Barry Harris - First Time Ever. And I immediately recognised the sharp9 chord and when I compled along I noticed that the chord progression is similar to what I know already and it gave me a new look on the keys. Knowing what to look for or seeing more really changes things
Thanks for this lesson! And thanks to Neil for his sacrifice !
Great advice Shan. I find that I mostly use the “play in all keys” strategy when I want to learn a new voicing or scale. Then you’ve really got it.
What I think worked for me is to always play the original key, then the key of c, plus one other. Then my mind takes on this curiosity and loves looking for the functioning harmony. I stopped feeling it was such a chore to transpose. My brain wants to find the other keys. Now I am finding that if I really hear the song in the key of C, the other keys are really no big deal. I have completely shifted away from a one song at a time approach to a more general way of looking at things. It feels like a big deal to me. It’s about falling in love with the work. It feels to me that this is what the work actually is.
In order the really play in all keys freely, time must be taken to actually first of all learn the chord voicings and most likely chord changes in as many keys as possible. Even before learning any kinds of standards. It is way harder trying to pick up standards whilst you are still figuring out chord voicings properly.
Hi Kathleen, this is exactly what I do! I’m further back than you (early level 2) but for obvious reasons the key of C becomes solid first so I find moving the tunes not in C to C really opens up the tune, I see more relationships, patterns and options. It makes me feel like every new tune is a tool to develop all my playing on any tune. I’ve now started to play everything I know in F and Bb as well as these are my next most solid keys, and now actually pick them up pretty quickly in these keys. It also has improved my ear as it usually tells me when I’ve gone wrong,and means that new tunes in these keys come much more quickly. As a lot of repertoire is in Eb I’m working on bringing that into my practice as well. It gives me confidence that someone further down the line has taken a similar path at least in relation to this. Happy playing.
@@paulr494 I’m happy for you. You’re going down the right road from the beginning. I made the mistake of thinking I needed to learn all the voicings first. That was a big mistake. I sounded good to myself and others, but my knowledge was shallow. The way to really get it is to slow down, hear those changes to your core. Voicings are no big deal after you can always hear the changes. The voicing s are decoration. They are not structure. There’s so much to learn, but focusing on the voicings doesn’t take you there. I wish someone had made this clear to me way back when. It’s about hearing the structure. About hearing the chords 100 percent of the time. It takes patience!
I think I wasted a lot of time working in too many keys. Now I try to really solidify everything in one key then do it a minor third or a half-step up. That's working much better for me.
Narrowing our focus is something I really believe in. Sounds like you're doing well!
I sound better than I did 6 months ago but I'm no-where near where I want to be. I have found your philosophy very helpful though. @@JazzSkills
@@JazzSkills I think the "play everything in all 12 keys" people are missing the concept of "opportunity cost". The New Oxford American Dictionary defines opportunity cost as "the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen". If one has infinite free time (as some of these people appear to), sure, it would be great to learn everything in all 12 keys. But for those of us who have forty-hour-a-week non-musician jobs and limited practice time, every hour we spend practicing a key we will probably never use is an hour taken away from time we could be practicing something more useful. What little free time I have is precious and I want to make the best use of it.
I love your lessons and teaching style. Thanks for all the videos! I have been doing a lot of piano chord warmups but mostly in C; working on transposing them into B and Bb soon.
You're very welcome and I'm glad you're making use of them.
Thanks Shan. You give such good advice and teach in such a commonsense way.
Love your site.
Barry Harris has helped my playing to become more fluid, smoother.
Your explaining BH has kept me interested in learning more.
Thanks, Shan! Great advice.
I think I will practice 2 keys for each diminished chord.
So,
C and Eb
F and D
G and Bb.
Practicing II-V-I for all the degrees in each of the 6 keys should be good enough.
Great advice! 🎹
Excellent expertise with a smooth flow of thoughts to consider, thank you JazzSkills!🎼🎶🎵🎶
Thank you so much!
This is excellent advice! Thanks for the encouraging video!
great video!
Great show you don’t need 12 keys
Thank super!!!
I’m a guitarist and I break it down by the dominant to organize it into certain keys, using the shape driven aspect of the guitar: For Eg: Using BH’s dim-dom system, E7 and the family of 4 dominants and 4 minor 6ths allows me to play in the key of C, Ebm, Gb (I disregard A because that’s not emphasized in jazz). F7 and the family of 4 dominants and 4 minor 6ths allows me to play in G, Bb, Db (disregard E as that’s more of a rock key). Eb7 and its 4 dominants and m6 family allows me to play in F, Ab, and D (disregard B as its’ a rock key). So, using BH’s system, I can play in 9 of the 12 keys. I don’t emphasize A, B, and E. Rock tunes etc.
I pretty much only play in 1 key, e minor. I enjoy it that way cause i dont have to think about what key i press cause They are subconcious by now. I like that.
A guitarist playing piano? :)
@@ManWithoutThePants got me! Its actually a comfortable key on piano though. Its pretty ergonomical and the fact that you can slide into the whole pentatonic from eflat is underrated. I pretty much stopped playing guitar 5 years ago though when i started piano. I much prefer the piano because of vastly greater polyphony being able to play many different notes at the same time and also playing chords while simultaneously being able to play bass or melodies - i really enjoy it more for that reason. I also enjoy the sound of eminor - to me it sounds kind of cheeky and fun and open and doesnt have the gravitas that other minor keys sound like - but thats purely taste.
@@jasonanthonywilper I have been playing guitar for about 28 years and I'm trying to get better at piano. I just thought that E minor is one of the easiest or favorite keys for guitarists :). On piano I do for some reason like C minor the most. At least currently. Also the scale fingerings are quite easy because of the black keys, but that's not the reason I like it.
I've been practicing the most famous songs like, 'All the things you are', 'Autumn leaves', 'Donna Lee', 'Fly me to the moon' and so on(Left hand walking bass, Right hand melody or chords), in 12 keys like a machine. I still don't know how to improvise.
And I'm also practicing 30 or more 2-5-1 licks in 12keys but still don't know how to improvise.
It took me a whole year to do all of this. I know It's not an effective way but I thought it would help a lot if you look back in the future.
Here's the issue, If someone gives me a lead sheet or a chord progression I know what they are I know how to 'press' the notes on the piano but don't know how to 'play' like a piece of music. (I kind of play it like those backing tracks for practice you see on UA-cam very stiff and boring) So I can't enjoy or feel the music I'm playing.
It feels like I've been memorizing a ton of vocabulary of a new language you're learning but can't actually speak it or make it in a sentence. Or you've prepared a lot of ingredients and tools to make a meal but realized you can't cook.
Sorry for the long comment, I want to ask you if I should get rid of this routine and start from the basic? Could you give me some advice?
IMHO it’s like a foreign language. Reading is good but listening is crucial if you wanna speak… Do you listen to a lot of jazz ? From New Orleans to Coltrane ??
@@jackbussy3133 You caught me off guard. I haven't been listening to hardly any jazz for the past year during this practice. Except for Charlie Parker's famous songs from time to time while driving.. I think I just realized that listening to jazz could give me great inspirations of melodies and rhythm. Thank you, you've been a lot of help.
I play everything in c, if necessary, transpose everything with a plugin on the keyboard. This allows me to instantly pick up and play almost any piece, and I would even say almost any chord voicing that others play, because I've learned to relate all chords to C so well. I wouldn't have come this far if I had played everything in all 12 keys instead. The only drawback is that I get a bit confused when a piece stays in another key for too long without modulating back to the main key. And, of course, I'm at a loss on a real piano when playing with others in a different key
That's gonna be an handicap for you....as you mention, when facing a real piano, you don't have the choice of transposing as if playing a keyboard.....gotta spend the time with other keys, no matter how hard....
I found out I'm almost good enough to be your student because I know Eb.
haha You don't need to be perfect first but I'm glad you're good in Eb!
I can play things in all keys, but I have no creativity or enjoyment as spent so long practicing exercises 😢
I think I want to eat some snacks now 😢
With respect, I find this advice a bit conflicted. You are not saying "don't waste your time learning to play everything in 12 keys", as I originally thought (a sentiment with which I basically agree). What you are saying is "only learn to play everything in 12 keys IF YOU ARE SUFFICIENTLY ADVANCED!". To that I am tempted to say - in contemporary parlance - "DUH!"
If you'd walked in the shoes of the many who have tried to take on too much, too soon, without any depth, followed the advice they'd heard but ended up with insufficient results and overwhelm, over a period of up to 20 or more years (who write to me every week), perhaps this would resonate more.
Here's my lazy way: Learn the song in it's original key and in the key of C. Just these two keys. If you learn 20 songs like that, interesting things will happen.