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Mobile HF Installation Part 2--Bonding
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2019
- Adding RF ground to a pickup for mobile ham radio installation using bonding techniques with braid.
Great info for mobile HF installations can be found here: www.k0bg.com
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Nice job! Interesting how bonding can make such a difference yet is often overlooked. Take care Chris!
worked on installing vhf radios etc on fire trucks in Canada for 7years Everything was deemed too be bonded to ground ( chassis )including most importantly the exhaust system
Great to see this basic principle included in a ham radio installation ,Sadly missing in all the others ive watched
Great video! Thanks for posting! I’m going to have to do my truck now. Usually only operating 2 meters and 440 but occasionally I do stick the HF triple magnet mount up on the roof and I’m sure it would make a better ground plane if everything was bonded. Thanks again for the video.
Short & simple - love it! Thanks for the video!
I’m getting ready to install a Tarheel screwdriver antenna on my 2017 ram king cab I’ll have the antenna mounted on the driver side back corner this is by far the best bonding video that I have found so far thank you sir
Thanks so much! Glad it helps!
Did you see any improvement on your HF antenna when you bonded?
@@frankwc0o well, the antenna was a new install not existing so I can’t speak to the fact of improvement but the antenna system works fantastic
Hi Chris, thanks for great intro to bonding. I had no idea what it was or what it meant. Now I know :)
The reason u leave the paint is that the zinc primer is it's electrically conductive. The tightening bolt with a lock washer is enough to make the contact. Use 18-8 stainless hardware where u can. Seth KC2WE
I suggest switching the exhaust bonding to the U bolt kids from DX Engineering. My hose clamp/braid installation corroded badly after one winter. I bonded the hood, doors, and tailgate on my Honda Pilot using the same method as you, but I used crimped and soldered lugs on the end rather than compression of the braid. YMMV, but I wanted to be able to really honk down those mounting bolts (and/or nuts, depending on the location) and be sure that that connection was never going to loosen. I also used JetLube SS-30 on all of those locations (also available from DXE) and those connections still look like the day I did them.--73, K2UA
I haven’t taken a look but now that you mention it I’ll check things out
Believe it or not / electrical connectors need to be maintained annually. Fluid Flilm / dielectric Grease.
Thanks for this. I'm working on a Tarheel II on a F-350. For now, just to get it installed, I ran a ground wire (10 ga dc wire) from the bracket to a bolt inside the door jam on the body of the truck. It made a remarkable difference, but I need to get to work on this side of things. Thanks
Wilson Hines Did you notice ignition noise? I get quite a bit in the F250. Luckily the noise blanker on the 7100 works great. I do get ignition noise on 2m. I ran a braid from the bolt of the back of the radio to a seat bracket bolt in the floor.
@@k2cjbradio You know, even with my mockery of a ground, I have no ignition noise. I took it for a spin this morning and noticed no rise in noise or changing of tone with the transmission change and RPM.
So glad I stumbled across this video.
I just finished bonding my Ram 1500 and I think it made a really serious impact. It's funny because I had the same exact problem you had where I ran out of braids when I went to do my exhaust. That will be next up when the spring weather hits. K9KJ
I didn’t scrape the paint though. I’m thinking about going back and doing that. The installation is probably due for some maintenance anyway…when the spring comes!
@@k2cjbradio I'm thinking about going back and doing that too. I did mine just how you did yours. I think I notice a difference at least on receive
Excellent video sir! I hope to be doing this someday soon.
Brian Shanahan Thanks! Good luck!
I put some die electric on the cleaned metal and secured. It seals out air, water and allows metal to metal
I'm refining my installation on a 2014 wrangler jk. Elmers suggest augmenting the bond from the motor to the frame, as well as add some to instrument clusters, etc to further reduce the noise, as well as the vise versa of protecting the new fangled auto systems from RF.
macrossactual Not a bad idea! I added more to the exhaust to frame, batt neg to firewall, and radio chassis ground to body. Still getting some ignition noise. Added chokes at base of antennas and coax input to radio. Thanks for watching! Hope it helped! 73 de K2CJB
@@k2cjbradio did you notice a difference when you ran the ground from the negative terminal to the firewall?
I will be installing a Tarheel on my Nissan Pathfinder soon. Radio is a Yaesu 891. Thanks for all the tips. 73 de N5NUK.
Great job! Enjoyed the whole vid!
Thanks!!
I have not bonded my Ram 3500 diesel at all and I'm running a mag mount antenna to my radio. 11 meters.
Talked to Europe and UK/Ireland, west coast and South America from NC last week no problem. About 75 watts.
Excellent!
Great advice.Many thanks this is what I need to do for my HF installation.
73.Ian G7HFS
Ian Harling Glad it helped!
Excellent video!
Great video,helped loads thankyou!!!! New subscriber 🇬🇧
Awesome! Glad to hear it helped! Thanks for the sub! 73 de K2CJB
Correctly well done 👏 ✔️
GOD, I should have this in 2003 when I was doing it on my HUMMER H1. The picture is still on the Tarheel website. Red one. I forgot to bottom... But I did the door, I think you should also do it the door. Remember there is a very thin line between a ground plane and a FARADAY CAGE. By adding the door and more bounding you plug the holes and happy new year. 73 VA2SOB Claude.
Claude M. P. Yeah, I still have to do the doors. I also bonded the radio chassis to the truck body and the negative battery terminal to the firewall. Thanks for checking it out!
@@k2cjbradio Good idea. I am using some king of aluminum plate an lock it on the floor, lock the support on the plate so it is nice looking.
Did bonding do a big difference?
Great video. I never knew about bonding.
ducktapepilot Thanks for checking it out! It definitely makes a difference! Can’t wait to get the project finished!
@@k2cjbradio Looking forward to seeing it completed! I just got my tech license a few months ago and hoping to eventually get an HF mobile rig so I'll be referring back to your videos for pointers!
This is the first time I’ve heard about bonding as well. It does make a lot of sense.
Thanks for the video
73 !
Great Job!
I have been watching videos on this very subject no one has said anything about bonding the exhaust which is already grounded to the engine. I'm using 3/4 braid soldered onto copper fittings and going down to bare metal. Most videos claim every 12 inches or 12 to 18 inches I'm going every 15 inches. All four corners of the cab same with the bed all four doors both sides of the tailgate the hood and cab to bed. I spray clear coating over all the ground points when I'm done this has made the RCI 2970 come to life almost like being hooked up to the beam antenna.
One more comment about scratching the paint and protecting the ZINC coating. This is SNAKE OIL. Why, it is only valid in Florida, Texas, California but in NORTHERN USA and Canada forget about that we use SALT on the road so our little zinc is gone. So go to the bare metal, if possible use a soldering equipment. PUT SOME LIQUID ELECTRICAL TAPE, apply a rust protective coating every year and now you are in business. Claude
Claude M. P. Hmm. I could do that.
go to bare metal and spray with a clear coat will seal it also, and will last longer
thank you
I have never once bonded a mobile install.I have had around 10 different HF mobile setups and I have never had any noise issues with any of them.I had great success from all except a Yaesu 857D and ATAS 120A that were both pure Garbage. I replaced them with an ICOM 7000 and a Tarheel II and all of the issues I had with the POS Yaesu gear immediately went away. Bonding may make my mobile even better but I don’t see any issues with what I have now so if it’s not broken don’t try to fix it.Leave well enough along.👍🎙
I am still dealing with coil on plug noise. Might be the 7100 isn’t able to deal with that kind of environment
@@k2cjbradioI currently drive a 2007 RAM 1500 5.7 HEMI Quad Cab and I don’t have issues on any band from HF thru VHF/UHF.I have an ICOM 7000 with Hustler Resonators and an ICOM 4100A with a Diamond SG7500A as well as a Radioddity GM-30 with a 5/8 wave Laird antenna and no issues with any of them.I use a ClearSpeech DSP base module with the ICOM 7000 but I use the ClearSpeech DSP Base units on every radio in my shack so I don’t have noise issues.I HATE NOISE.🎙
I agree that ATAS is not great, never got it to work with my 13 year old FT-857D. Yes, the 857 is noisy, but I've done three mobile installations and I've never bonded, wondering if there is any improvement?
@@frankwc0o I have no noise with my 2007 RAM 1500 Quad Cab with Zero bonding.I had terrible noise with several Chevrolets and a Toyota.I have had no noise whatsoever with 2 different Dodge Rams.I’m using my ICOM 7000 and a Little Tarheel HP.
@frankwc0o I didn’t do a before and after test.
Awesome instructional video. Straight to the point. Great knowledge, would this information apply for a mag mount antenna?
Thanks! Bonding wouldn’t hurt a magmount install since it improves the ground plane for the antenna.
I saw your entry point into the rear of the cab from the outside, but I can only imagine how you got past the interior wall behind the rear seat...
That was a royal pain!!
@@k2cjbradio I'm trying figure it out myself on my 2000 Quadcab F250, I could only get the top part to pull away after removing the plastic rivets, its Horrible, its all behind the paneling, :( - KJ7RTW
Oops, I spoke too soon. UA-cam brought up part 2 (I asked you where part 2 was in the comments in part 1). Thanks for the views once again. I wonder if there is any measurement that can be taken to prove out bonding or do we just see the noise floor diminishing? 73 de KI5HXM Brent
I wonder what it would look like if you put a meter on it.
Nice vid!! I just my 4runners exhaust (2 spots) and hood(2 spots) Would doing the doors and hatch help? I mean it couldn’t hurt but they are vertical pieces of metal rather than horizontal like a roof or hood.
rallypoint1 It might! The only parts I haven’t bonded are the doors. But the bed, cab, hood, exhaust are all bonded.
Chris, Thanks for your Videos and all your efforts with putting them together. Greatly enjoyed this series. Just curious: In part 1 you scanned the antennas before you did the bonding. After bonding did you scan the 2 antennas again. Will be very interesting to see what effect the bonding has on the SWR, on the resonant frequency and the usable bandwidth on 20 and 40 before and after bonding. 73 de k1jbd, bammi
Jwahar Bammi Thanks and I’m glad you enjoy the videos! Good question! I never did check the antennas after bonding.
Nicely done. I'm using your instructions for mine. Just different antenna. Where did you buy the bonding wire?
DX Engineering has it. Have fun!
Will you do the doors to the cab, too? as far as scraping the paint, is the paint conductive? If not, how is it actually bonded? One thing that has prevented me from doing any hf install is drilling holes and thus opening the vehicle to the chance of corrosion it that spot, like where you mounted the antennas near the tail.
I haven’t done the doors yet. Also didn’t scrape the paint as I understand the RF path that the braid provides capacitively couples the two body parts. At least, that’s the theory.
Great video, but I do have a question ...... since your antennas are on the back of your truck and sit below the body line, does it affect your signal and reception? Also, does it make it more directional?
Hard to say since I never did a comparison. I do have a video of me operating mobile. It might be directional toward the front of the truck. I’ve worked mostly eastern US but have made the trip to Europe occasionally. Thanks for watching!
As soon as I get out of the hospital I'm going to do my truck
This is a GREAT video series! I have been looking at how to install my FT-891 and ATAS 120A into my Ram 2500. One question I have is, is 3/4" necessary or just the most efficient? Keep up the great work! Subscribed
WJ6F Thanks for subscribing!! I don’t think there’s any benefits using 3/4” instead of 1/2”. I actually a few more bonding straps after shooting the videos and used 1/2”. I also added coax chokes at the base of each antenna and at the antenna connection on the radio to try to reduce ignition noise. And I also installed a shunt coil at the base of the 40m stick to improve matching and reduce static build up on antenna. It definitely improved the antenna impedance. Thanks again!! 73 de K2CJB
@@k2cjbradio Thanks to your video series, tomorrow I will be bonding my Ram 2500, installing the FT-891, ATAS 120A, and making a video of it. Your video series was invaluable in my being able to properly do this and film it.
@@WJ6FRadio Fantastic!! I’m so glad it all helped!! Looking forward to seeing your video! Thanks again!
@@k2cjbradio Well.... As I am sure you noticed filming was delayed due to this corona crud. I hope to get it done this week. Maybe a multi part series like your videos.
WJ6F That’s ok. When you’re ready, you’ll get it done. Looking forward to it!
Good info. I was not aware that this was necessary, so thanks for sharing this. It seems you are just cutting the braid to size; do you do anything to prevent fraying?
No I didn’t. Some of the jumpers were a bit short. But, a few years later and they’re all still there
Is there a part one?😀
Did you see any improvement in signal? Also, was it for HF or UHF/VHF?
nice job explaining it and making sure the exposure was good so we could see it when pivioting under the vehicle and hood. 73, kk4zuu
Why would you need to bond or ground the exhaust system?
Just Me I got the idea from Alan K0BG and others who recommend bonding the exhaust system since it is isolated from the vehicle and can act like an antenna for ignition noise, Alan's website is really comprehensive on mobile radio installation. Thanks for checking it out!
Thanks again for another great video and for the quick response to the last video comment I made. Another quick one here to get your opinion. I was thinking of roof rack mounting, I realize I'd need to be aware of clearance, but what ground would you do with that? Wire to one of the metal screws holding the roof track bar into the roof? 73
Paul K5VOP JI1BGC I guess the question is what kind of antenna will you mount up there? Will the roof rack be able to support it at highway speeds? Is it a metal roof rack? And how is the roof rack connected to the body of the vehicle. In the past I have run a braid from underneath the screws on a trunk lip mount to a nearby hinge bolt. That might help with bonding. I would imagine you could do something similar off the roof rack mount.
@@k2cjbradio the VHF UHF is a standard tri-band antenna on an nmo mount and the HF would be just the mount and not the antenna when driving. I'm looking at the alpha FMJ with moto whip.
Paul K5VOP JI1BGC I think the VHF/UHF would be fine as is. So you won’t be operating HF while driving?
@@k2cjbradio For the most part no. If I did find myself wanting to then I would look at roof rack, mount and antenna strengths. But mostly for something like POTA to go, park and operate without major setup.
Paul K5VOP JI1BGC Yes. For HF mobile, you probably don’t want to go with a roof rack mount. But, you’ll figure it out. Doing POTA is a lot of fun too!
Great video! I'm wondering if any automotive centers or car stereo installation companies would do that for a charge? I'm looking to get back into HF mobile and would love to get the vehicle bonded like this.
What are your thoughts?
Interesting thought. They might do it for you. I guess it’s up to each shop.
I've installed many mission critical HF/VHF/UHF radio systems per manufacturer specifications and I've always bonded the RT, PA, COUPLER, and antenna mount to the body or frame of the vehicle by removing the paint and coating with a dielectric paste. But I have never heard of bonding each and every panel including the exhaust. I can't wrap my head around adding braid to a component that is bolted or strapped to the frame already. Besides just doing because it doesn't hurt, do you have any data that would support this?
I learned a lot from K0BG.com. Extremely thorough website on mobile installations. Also VE6AB (jerryclement.ca) is a great site. Re: bonding exhaust. The theory goes that it actually “floats” from an RF standpoint and serves to act as an antenna radiating ignition noise. Bonding to the frame reduces that effect. Some recommend bonding it in 3 or 4 places. I’ve also learned that the new paints have zinc in them as a rust preventer, and to scratch the paint nullifies that benefit. Hope that explains why I did what I did.
@@k2cjbradio Thanks. I'll take a look at it.
What about bonding the doors to the frame as well?
He did say he was only bonding the horizontal surfaces at this point.
Looks to easier than I imagined. How much braid (length) did you start with?
Bargain Basement Ham Radio I think I had about 6-8 feet. The longest pieces I used for this project were the pieces by the tailgate
@@k2cjbradio Thanks Chris!
Where can I find a mount bracket for an antenna like the one of this video? 73
I found it on a CB radio supply site
Hi sir I’m new to the hobby and I haven’t done this I might sound dumb but where can I find this braided wire if u can help please and great videos by the way 👍👍👍
martin maciel Thanks! DX Engineering has it in different widths. Welcome to Ham Radio!! 73 de K2CJB
Thanks so much awesome videos
Chris, where do you purchase the braid? I have found some at DXEngineering that is 10 feet long with ring connectors on it. I can’t find the braid you are using.
Kinda late in responding….I forget where I got it. Hamfest maybe?
Nice video, very informative - I installed an FT891 in a 2012 MINI Cooper this summer, my 2nd mobile installation - and did NOT bond and am now understanding how necessary it is. In addition to RFI with the engine on, I've had difficulty tuning the ATAS120 antenna (lip mount on rear hatch due to the car having dual sunroofs) - - - will be getting some braid and getting busy.
(I blogged about the installation at www.ab1dq.com, will need to do a Part II, I think...)
73 de AB1DQ.
I added more after the video. I had an ATAS years ago and it was erratic. I know now it’s because I didn’t bond the Explorer as well as I should have
Don’t forger to use a choke when doing the install. That could have helped your Mini Cooper install.
Is using battery cable wire Ok or does it need to be flat wire.
Everywhere I’ve read recommends the braid for bonding more for RF reasons I believe.
I have ordered some flat braid. Thanks
Does this help car audio at all?
I don’t know. I haven’t heard on anyone doing this to improve it.
Maybe I'm splitting more than braid here, but I believe any painted surfaces that will make contact with the braid need to be taken down to bare metal !
I might also tin the ends of the braid to allow for a more substantial contact area.
For those concerned about dissimilar metal issues, I believe there are a number of available spray's to combat same !
I know it's a pain, but anything worth doing, is worth doing right !
With the trade off here being reduction of noise, and proper shielding of Automotive components !
🤔....?
Just Say'n !
I did research that a bit and learned that we don’t necessarily need to go to bare metal because the RF couples rather than relies on a physical connection. I’m sure others may suggest otherwise.
OVERKILLLL
Appreciate the great overview how you did you bonding. 73 de AI4QT
Thanks! 73 de K2CJB