We run an all cat powered fleet. As long our blocks stay with us we will rebuild them with cat parts and run them until the EPA bans them. There is no substitute for yellow power!
Cat got sick of trying to meet emissions requirements. Truck engines were a small part of their business, so they decided to get out. CAT was my favorite engine.
Yes, i worked with the guy who nixxed the project. Emissions were changing every couple years, complicating everything, and it wasn't as financially viable nor worth the constant government headaches.
Yes the Emissions also has made the ford 6.7s diesels are junk always in for warranty work unreliable Especially in cold weather here in Canada exhaust fluid freezes into a block then the heaters fail total garbage and puts engine in limp mode lol
In other words, increasing cost of emissions compliance forced a consolidation in the industry. It’s only profitable to sink billions of dollars into emissions R&D when you can spread that cost out across a high number of units. So it forces the industry to consolidate so that only 2 or 3 major engine manufacturers have to make that R&D investment.
I had two tractors with the 3306 engine, a 966 loader and a 528 grapple skidder. Those were great engines and easily reparable out in the field. Having been a logger for over 20 years, I miss what happened to our country. For that matter, the destruction of our way of life...
We still run 3406 B,C and Es as well as C15C. They are all excellent engines. We don’t go to California any more and would rather cut our hands and feet off rather than go there again.
I live in CA, I drove a truck with a 3406B in it and loved it until we had to sell it in 2019. We still have a truck with a C13 acert but it’s kind of a pile of junk.
I rebuild 2 stroke detroit diesels in riverside ca.. the state wants to shit us down however they won’t because much of the state and local equipment still has old detroit diesels in it and who do they come to when stuff needs fixin? Us.. we also repair and maintain some of the fire departments old detroit fire trucks when needed.. many of the new fire trucks aren’t that reliable and are constantly having issues so many fire departments opted to keep 1 or 2 old detroits around for backup.. i think there’s 17 in riverside alone.. not to mention genrators, well pumps, drill rigs etc that still have old screamin Jimmy’s…
Kenworth in Australia didn’t refuse to put CAT or Detroit engines in their trucks, those two companies refused to supply them. When Kenworth in Australia got wind that Caterpillar weren’t going to supply any more, they stockpiled as many engines as they could. Cummins had failures pulling our big weights, and the Series 60 wasn’t powerful enough. A lot of people here cursed Caterpillar for that, as it was and still is a very popular engine. The CAT truck here was an abject failure and didn’t last long. The CAT 3408 in my truck has done huge hours since it was made in 1980 and I still work it hauling 80 tons roadtrains over long distances. Enjoyed your video.
Likely CAT decided to not pursue any more business with Paccar, anywhere. Anyways, they wouldn't necessarily manufacture and supply parts and support for one market, specially one that isn't that big. No offense, but the population in Australia is kinda small, so the demand for trucks wouldn't be that big to justify the running costs to maintain the market, specially if there was already a great likelyhood that aussies would follow emissions legislations similar to the EU, US and Canada.
I work at Cat and I believe one of the reasons they got out of on highway engines was because they didn’t have engineers that could figure out how to stay in the market because most of the engineers I deal with over the last few years are contracted, so many don’t have the knowledge from the design stage to an actual working part that is proven. More of the “old guys” that deal with this stuff for decades have left and that knowledge hasn’t been replaced, unfortunately. Cat made a big mistake when they threw in the towel on these OTR engines because they had a cult-like following.
I agree with the cult like following. Great loyalty to Cat. My 3408 was heavy and expensive but it was worth it. Got 20,000 hours of service with no problems. Knew a driver who pulled a box trailer who had a cartoon painting of Garfield the cat on his back door; the caption said, “You could have had a V-8.”
If the environmentalist and government is so keen on slapping restrictive measures on vehicle engines for all the crap of smog control, then start applying it to those rich owned private jets and their engines that are flying high and polluting the atmosphere up high, to what is called direct injection pollutions. Those jets put out more pollution up high than many thousands of combined vehicles do. I would like to also know what is the health effect issues of the DEF fluid is that I constantly smell from those diesel engines, because that crap stinks horrible.
Not to mention that cargo ships that move shipping containers over seas run on waste engine oil or sometimes crude oil for fuel that is heated up to flow better in the mechanical injection system. The funny thing is that so many people are deleting their diesels rn people will go the lengths to have a reliable truck emissions free/no DPF. I just the other day we had a deleted duramax drive in w 300k on the clock, if the owner keeps the DPF off it’ll probably be back w a million if he’s on maintenance. That DEF is nasty shit, it’ll crystallize on the floor of the shop, & make a mess all to make the exhaust a tad bit cleaner. All the mess, plastic jugs, extra metal in the exhaust, making more carbon than they actually create. It’s about power, & control. Cows emit more methane gas w farts than all the cars in the us combined! It’s ridiculous. Plus a square acre of trees absorbs a shit ton of carbon per year! It’s called photosynthesis. Trees get the carbon from the air that make oxygen we breathe. I’ve smelled the DEF fumes from DPF trucks & it’s nasty. Plus the natural smell of diesel exhaust has a sweet smell to it when u start the truck up in the morning. I’m all for making em cleaner, but it gets to a point where it’s just ridiculous it’s not worth having the regulations at all.
I drive a truck and have never smelled def besides when it gets spilled. Almost all current diesel engines use def now. That includes construction equipment, boats, generators. Planes don’t use diesel so I don’t know how those emissions are controlled.
I don't personally run Caterpillar engines in my trucks, but I know a lot of people that do. There's still a lot of 3406B engines on the road. I think overall that was probably Caterpillar's best engine ever made.
Cat continues to make all of their own engines for their equipment, power generation, and locomotive products. About a third of their revenue is based on engine sales. Not sure why he said that Cat stopped producing engines. Also, the main reason that they stopped producing engines was that the truck manufacturers were vertically integrating (building their own engines). Paccar had their own engines, which they were putting into Kenworth and Peterbilt. Volvo had their own engine, and Daimler Benz was putting their own engine into Freightliner. There didn’t seem to be a future for an independent engine maker, let alone two (Cummins and Cat). At that point Cat’s equipment and power generation business was exploding and they had to decide whether to build more capacity to support both the truck industry and the booming equipment/power generation demand. Given the vertical integration happening in the truck industry, they decided to not invest in additional capacity and gave up the trucking business. The trucking business was also low margin for Cat and did not justify continued investment.
ALL manufacturers had a hard time with emissions, CAT gave it an attempt but decided they didn't need to weather that storm. At the time their big military contracts for the C7 and C15, which were emissions exempt, was probably enough to not even miss the EPA headaches of the road truck market.
Failed Emissions has killed the trucking industry and small businesses that can’t afford repairs. Extremely smart move by CAT backing out of truck engines. My 1995 DD gets better MPG’s than most new trucks and a lower fuel cost with no DEF .
I've got a Paccar engine in my DAF XF 460bhp and it's great apart from the constant check engine lights. So much so that my workshop told me if it's an orange light then keep driving, and only get worried if it's flashing red. If I could put an old pre-emissions engine in my truck I would but that kind of practice is not common in the UK.
I get the random lights and feature shutoff issues pretty often in Freightliner Cascadias. 2018 thru 2021, it seems like this is the new standard for trucks these days. Nothing even wrong with the truck, just the computer thinks there is. Would be nice if quality would become a priority again considering how much we have to pay for a new truck.
@@joshk.4470 allegedly, not that I, as a respectable trucking company owner, would ever do such a thing, having the engines deleted gets rid of those issues, and increases fuel mileage substantially, again allegedly, so I’ve heard…..
Had a 1999 GMC C7500 with the 3126 Cat engine. The greatest thing ever from -39° to +40° always started and ran. Didn't give any problems (as long as a oil change every 10000km)
I live under a rock because I didn’t know any of this. Thank you for making this video. This saddens me greatly, because this just affirms that one day they’re going to make it illegal to use a gas or diesel engine, which I believe they’re already starting to do in California. If not that then all the emissions stuff will ultimately force regular people to give up on Diesel engines. The reason people “delete” the emissions components is because they force you to have all of it on your vehicle but BY GOD when, and I mean WHEN and not IF it breaks, it’s coming out of YOUR pocket to fix because it’s all labeled as a “filter” or “wearable component.” 😡
Wow! that is shocking NEWS bad NEWS. I remember driving a number of different trucks having the 3406 in different models. I always loved listening to the engine run and would turn off the radio for hours on end just to listen the big 6cyl CAT run most of the night (2006 2007)
Cat stopped making over the road hwy tractor engines because they couldn't get the technology right with ACERT and decided to concentrate on their off road cash cow. In 2013 EPA set stringent guidelines for NOX emissions generated because of high engine running heat to reduce carbon particulates captured by the 2007 required diesel particulate filters. Cummins and Detroit realized the way to do this was with an additional SCR catalysts and DEF fluid injection into the exhaust after the particulate filter. CAT was just to big to evolve in time and didn't have the experience needed that Cummins and Detroit developed in Europe. CAT tried to work with the EGR , they called it ACERT Technology, and avoid the additional DEF fluid tank, and that just wasn't good enough to meet NOX levels. Ask Navistar how the EGR path went. Nearly bankrupted them and they had to switch to Cummins engine rather than their Navistar. I know this. I've been with a fire truck manufacturer and went to the seminars and watched the evolution on diesel engines since 2001 . I was also involved in a sale where the customer wanted a CAT engine and I had to warn him he may not get it, and that's exactly what happened. He ended up having to take a Mercedes Benz engine after watching the promised delivery date move back again and again.
That’s correct. They even went the high EGR route with their Perkins line up to 6.6 litres and they are fuel-guzzlers. I know because I run a four cylinder common-rail Perkins 4.4 turbo and also used to sell machines with those engines up to 180hp. Perkins/Cat have now lost the vast majority of their non-Cat customers due to their 2005-on common rail uncompetitive fuel consumption and the need for much larger cooling packs. John Deere went the same way but with more sophisticated variable vane turbos and external EGR, while Perkins went for the cheapest possible build and internal unregulated EGR which results in much fine soot to remove by DPF.
@@jessdigs Yes. no large off-road engines can get away with not having both some EGR and Selective Catalytic Conversion [by way of DEF fluid, also called AdBlue] for the latest emission regulations. Cat could have chosen to go more towards the DEF route to start with and they would probably have retained more of their customers.
@@jessdigs But it still doesn't meet the enhanced CA emissions now coming online. These pollution regs are going to destroy the US trucking industry. I know of at least a DOZEN O/O who had to spend THOUSANDS to keep fixing engines with bad DEF/EGR sensors and valves. My friend quickly learned how to swap out the EGR sensors so the DEF system wouldn't put his Pete in "limp home mode" all the time.
@@swaghauler8334 I honestly don't know that much about the cat emissions. I drive a Peterbilt 10 wheeler dump with the Cummins, and run a John Deere 310 most days. But I am in CA, I work for the biggest utility in the country and we have some nice equipment. All the newer equipment takes DEF and all seems to work well.
I don’t blame Caterpillar for stopping production of truck engines in North America why ruin the best engine ever built. I will keep running my 1MM 600 in my W900 till I can’t climb the steps to drive
7 of my trucks still have c15 that are running strong. CATs are still my favorite engine but the new Cummins x15 have done surprisingly well in my newer trucks
@@yourchava my company hauls overweight doubles often pulling upwards of 130,000 lbs so I’m not concerned about fuel usually get 4 mpg. We do get lots of engine lights but so far they are minor issues like bad sensors. I haven’t had any major issues to report
I like Cummins and Cat but I will never again buy a paccar engine. All 5 of my paccars heads cracked at 400k miles exactly and Peterbilt refused to fix them even though they were under warranty
The X15 is a pretty reliable engine. It seems to actually handle this emissions crap a lot better than the ISX. But there’ll never be another kitty cat
And it was such a small portion of their engine sales, it just wasn't worth the hassle for them to stay in that market anymore. Not even 1/10th of the engines they built went into trucks. The real money is in the big 35xx, C175 and C280s.
Cummins was 50 times more advanced. Cats were great after a year when the mechanic cracked into the fuel pump. Believe me, until then my foot was sore from holding down a new b-block. After they got turned up, look out! My favourite cat engine was one from my youth, the iconic 380! That was serious dozer power back in the day. They had 360’s, the 375’s, 400’s but them 380’s would rock! Most who bought the new 425 A blocks wished they still had their 380’s. All changed with the B- variant. At the time, Cummins would give you 500 right off the bat in their N-14. No break in period.
they also do very well selling re-man pistons for older engines. I worked at a company that made lots of Cat pistons but the ones coming back in were where the profit margin was. When the engine was torn down and needed new pistons you had to return your old pistons as a core charge, those were sent out to be cleaned and then send back to the factory. Once we had them back we would take out the old brass wrist pin bushings and press in new brass bushings and then send them to pin bore for gaging and new pin bore bored. Then they went back out as re-man pistons as good as new pistons.
WHOA! You forgot about CAT subsidiary Progress Rail which makes diesel locomotives for railroads in North America and around the world. CAT acquired the business in 2010 from GM's ElectroMotive Division, the most prolific diesel locomotive maker in the world.
I worked & retired from Cats foundry in Mapelton, IL. 1977-2008 We would ship 100's of 3406 & 3208 blocks to Mossville machine & assembly plant everyday. I worked on the line for 3208's in the 80's & 90's & we would ship 650-700 blocks seven days a week for years. We also cast all the big blocks for mining, railroad, generators & huge ocean boats. Heads & liners also. Most of the smaller blocks where shipped to their Mexico foundry about the time I retired.
When glider kits became popular again in order to get around "emissions " cat engines were the most requested, I have two, 2ws,5ek absolutely the best, performance horsepower. Torque. And reliability!!
5:49 i worked at the cat plant in seguin, there were in fact rumors of getting back in, usually mentioned as a possibility when talking about future physical expansion of the building and adding a new assembly line
@@V8Lenny you are wrong. Viscor flowed down by gravity when arriving in Mossville, IL from Pontiac, IL. The njectors shipped on their side, rather than vertical. When engine arrived at cold test for any interior leaks, we got a false leak message.
Great video although most steering wheels holders have no idea how to do a proper pretrip let alone the history or basic function of a diesel engine. Its sad what happened with Cat but I dont blame them. EPA ruined the diesel engine. Cat had a reputation for reliable engines and the after treatment regulations was throwing that down the toilet for them with their ridiculous new requirements year after year. Of course the other manufacturers got on board because they only see $$$ when you breakdown. Cat on the other hand decided to not participate in the molestation of their customers.
@@blauer2551 like anything that lasts a long time yes their products come at a premium. For that reason. They have to stay in business. Quality OEM parts come at a higher cost.
All 4 of my trucks are Cat powered, 2 3406B's and 2 3406E's. Well technically one of the B's is actually a C converted to a B, it is 2022 and I figured with all the political stuff going on if the C wanted to be a B why not.
CAT saw the writing on the wall with EPA constantly moving the yard stick. So they got out while they had their shir on their back. And they will NEVER come back to the OTR market. I don't blame them either.
Let me tell you something right now.... I gotta damn.... 379 Peterbilt! With a 320” wheelbase.... 18 speed!! A Twin-Turbo Kitty-Kat drag’n a damn..... Spread axle bull wagon. A Big Galaxy, peaked & tuned with a Con-nex board! And I’m from Malvern, Arkansas and I’ll blow your damn doors off!!!
Those who have actually driven a mechanical 3406, know...... those who haven't THINK they know. As a driver, if you gave me a brand new truck today and I had the choice between an old mechanical Cat 3406, or the biggest/newest X15 605 Cummins.... I'd take the 3406 Cat, hands down! I have plenty of miles with both engines and there's no comparison. None! Modern electronic engines are SO neutered 99% of the time by the computer they feel like giant turds. A mechanical 3406 gives you ALL the power ALL the time under your right foot. It feels like you're driving a race car, regardless of what's hitched on the back. Again, those who know.... know.
I had a 3406e with over 600 HP and for the past 3 years i have a 565 HP x15 and so far the Cummins is bulletproof with regular maintenance at 300k kms. Pulls just as well and much quieter.
@@SlipFitGarage I'm fairly young (36) so mechanical engines weren't really around when I started driving. Only experience I have is with a little Cummins L10.
@@MistaRoyanT Well, I'm about 12 years older than you and I was fortunate enough to start driving commercial trucks for a small family owned company around 20-21 years old. They had no brand loyalty to anything. They had trucks of every make/model with engines from every engine manufacturer. Their trucks ranged anywhere from brand new (at that time) to 20+ years old. I've had the pleasure (or, should I say displeasure) of driving all the most common engine/transmission combination ever put on the road. Especially from the 80's, 90's. In later years I've pretty much driven high HP Cummins/18 speed trucks. Anyway, I HAVE driven the older mechanical engines and just like I said in my first comment.... "Those who have driven a mechanical 3406, know. Those who haven't THINK they know". And no offense, but your initial reply proves that statement. You replied comparing two electronic engines. Both of your engines are perfectly fine..... but NEITHER of them comes close to the "seat of the pants" feel of the old mechanical 3406 Cats. They're not even in the same universe. If you're currently driving a 565 Cummins, and you were somehow able to step into an older Pete/Kenworth (for example) with and old 3406 tomorrow, be sure to video record your experience. Lol. From a driver's standpoint.... I'm not talking about fuel economy, cost per mile to operate, emission standards, etc.... I'm talking strictly about the driving experience, you would be SHOCKED at what they call "565 horsepower" today. Because a 425-450 horsepower mechanical 3406 would drive past your truck on its way to top gear while your 565 horsepower truck is still working its was through low range. Seriously...
My 352 cabover has a 3406a in it and my dads 389 glider has a c15. His truck is hands down more powerful than mine. Drives better, runs better, and has loads more power. And mine is turned up. Electronic fuel injection was the best thing to ever happen to internal combustion engines. And he gets better fuel mileage. Idk where you’re getting this from.
I'll keep my 6NZ in my '03 W900L forever. CAT power all the way ! 1,900,000 miles on her, and she still hauls ass ! They really need to dissolve EPA & cut California off the map completely. These 2 are the main problem causes since 20 yrs. ago. And it's getting worse....
Supplying engines to the on-road truck industry has never been a large business in the global Caterpillar company, it has rather been an add-on in what you get when you build large Diesel engines for other uses. When the pollution requirements came, it was no idea for Cat to be in this business
I drove a Cat once with a Cat… yeah that was fun so impactful was the experience that 8 years on I can still recall the door trim falling of as I went to close the door 😂😂
I've been retired for 15 years now and have not been in nor driven trucks, buses or heavy equipment since 2006. When I did, Caterpillar was the choice I preferred for overall performance. On the bottom end it had the power and torque needed to do the job, wether it was pushing earth or pulling hills from Vail pass in Colorado to cajon pass in Shaky. The 3406 B with 425 horses never let me down on the road. It was reliable, dependable and the get home valve was invaluable. I expirenced several problems with the Cummins engines so Detroit Diesels 8v92 would be my next choice.Thanks for the informative video.
Leave it to un elected bureaucrats to come up with ways to do away with internal combustion engines. This will eventually be a very costly mistake that may well destroy the middle class.
FYI...CAT has NOT stopped making engines...They just stopped bowing to the EPA etc. for 'over the road' equipment. They are still a world renowned engine builder for power generation. Both for emergency power units and fixed platforms. Ken
Detroit engines were no longer an option in PACCAR vehicles after July 1st of 2001. The reason for that was due to a year prior Detroit Diesel was purchased by Daimler Chrysler, the parent of Freightliner, Sterling and Western Star and therefore competitors of Paccar.
Worked in a diesel shop for 2 years and in that time I've seen and heard a lot of common issues with the ISXs, Series 60s, 3406 CATs, hell even was part of a DD13 swap on a Freightliner because the driver locked the engine up. Will say about the Cats though, specifically the 3406E, dunno if it was all 3406 blocks, but I learned after the first few rebuilds I seen in the shop the plate between the block and head is one area those engines like to fail at over time, and I've seen a couple go up in flames because the starter got stuck on both. Can't beat that sound though, the rattle and spool of a big single turbo on that engine is godly to listen to
I agree, with everyone’s epa opinions, with that in mind, Reliability, and Dependability, 60 Series Detroit. Hard to beat them. Rebuild to Marine Specifications and all you power hungry gents won’t be disappointed
Got a mechanical 3406 in my 94 377 pete, broke the crank, Payson Diesle of Pason Utah rebuilt it, it ducked I had to go from Ohio to Utah but I would do it again in a heartbeat.
The US Military selected the 3126 engine to power the FMTV and LMTV trucks manufactured by Stewart and Stevenson. The 3126 was selected for weight savings as it was a dry cylinder engine, failures were common. The 3226 was a slight improvement, but still under powered compared to the older Cummins 6CTA8.3 engine. I've got a ton of 3406B miles under my belt, as we drove as teams and racked up 375,000 miles a year. The engines got an in-frame at two years, and the truck replaced at the end of the third year.
Drove so many 3406's cannot count em. Mostly local 5 state area in and around Minnesota. You would think they would always be under a truck hood. But they are doing OK with construction equipment! Good vid!
Because Caterpillar refused to add emission controls, because their engineers knew that crap could destroy engines - and they wanted no part of THAT, so they refused to play ball, like the others did - and have caused pain and suffering among truck owners, with the never ending down time. That said, they still supply engines for the military, so parts will still be around for the forseeable future.
Ahhh. Ran a truck that had that wonderful 2008 c13. Went through 2 ard heads in a month. One went, got it replaced. Made it about 20 miles from the shop, truck kicked into limp mode we we had it towed back in. Shop replaced the ard head again
I was a shop Forman at a CAT truck engine shop from 2005-2010. That was the most miserable years of my Diesel engine mechanic career! Literally 4 of the those years I worked on junk and was a punching bag for fleet owners disappointed in their engines.
My shop is single handedly working to keep 2 stroke detroits alive.. our shop is basically an active museum when it comes to vintage diesels.. we also do cummins 220’s which nobody knows anymore
My first truck ran a 3406B. The truck it sat in was a rolling heap, but the engine was amazing. Great sound, great power, and never missed a beat. Was also lucky enough to spend some time in a CAT rock truck. Those poor things got beat like rented mules 16 hours a day in awful conditions, and were still marvelously reliable. Will always go CAT if I have a choice.
Interesting. I grew up in Illinois where at one time it was said that eight out of ten people worked for caterpillar. My Dad worked for them throughout his career.
Similar situation here. All my family is from the Peoria area. My grandpa, uncle and cousin all worked for CAT in some form or fashion. Grew up around those big machines. Really miss it. I live in NC now, but always remember those good ole days.
Did not mention the tie up with Ford. The 3204 was developed for the Ford Liouville series. Cat built the 2 biggest diesel engine factories in the world to manufacture the 3204. It was after this that Cat attacked the truck market seriously. The 3204 taught Cat about the difference between the requirements for a tractor engine and a truck engine.
Curious as to what the pollution cost of replacing mechanical engines with electronic engines is. I feel like a mechanical engine that can run 700k before needing a rebuild would still be less polluting then replacing that engine with an electronic engine.
Great video. Not sure if you covered it in a different video but there was a glider kit program where you could get a new chassis with a reman engine (Car,Cummins,Detroit ) but it ended in 2020. Knowing that program was ending my brother and I picked up two gliders . One with a Detroit and one with a c15. Fantastic engines and should run for a very long time.
Cat and Detroit diesel exited the motorcoach and transit bus market too. They were left with Volvo, Cummins and other engine options remaining as of today.
Gee thanks for telling me about the EVA , AVM and VPN solution for the QBG issues. Once they did that the WRT was replaced by the JHL and VPK. But once the XRT came out, it was only a matter of time that the PSR was never going to replace the KPL, so CAT was SOL.
I worked for Navistar/ International the manufacturer of the CAT truck. when they were trying to make the C-15 work and they literally were cooking and blowing engines. They couldn’t take the higher temps needed to make EGR work because at the time that’s how Navistar was trying to beat the emissions game. If they had used DEF and Aftertreatment it would of worked but Navistar’s strategies were wrong. The primary reason the truck failed is because they couldn’t offer a 15L at one point Navistar was talking using a ISX 15 and CAT wouldn’t have it. And then factor in all the 13L engine issues because it was just the Maxxforce 13 painted yellow with minimal changes.
I had a Peterbilt with a 6nz cat engine. Unfortunately I live in California and it was outlawed. At 1 million miles oil testing showed under 10ppm of any metal particles, meaning the engine was like new. I felt pretty bad about getting out of trucking, the air resources board killed my livelihood and everything I had worked for. The egr engines that followed, brand C were a joke. Now I work on garage doors...
What do you need? I have a guy who scraps busses and theyre low milage and undertuned for about 4k it comes with most the hardware including the transmittion.
Back in the 80's we had Fire trucks with 3208 engines in them Very reliable had really no serious issues with them. And we would start them cold and run them hard to go t0 fires and rescue calls. We switched to them after running Detroit Diesels for years.
In June 2008, Caterpillar announced it would be exiting the on-highway diesel engine market in the United States before updated 2010 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) emission standards took effect - NOT 2016. From 2011 - 2016 CAT was selling their CT660 Truck (made by Navistar). They ceased production in 2016. Cat Engines for OTR vehicles such as school buses, RV's, and Semi's ceased to exist in 2010.
I like to thank you for the updating info-clip and wonder why you haven't mentioned the CAT involvement in Australia or was that just a drop of water on a hot rock - sort of speak?
i ran a truck fleet in the 90s. i was a cat 3406 fan for over 10 years but their mileage was always terrible. i ran 379 petes pulling refers coast to coast so 5 mpg was tops. when i complained cat would always blame my drivers. then detroit came out with the 60 series electronic engine so i bought a couple. i instantly went to a 5.7 mpg average. with a fleet that difference really adds up. never bought another cat engine.
I drive a 387 peterbilt with an acert 475 cat engine..Always get 6.5 miles per gallon or better..336 rears..It wasn't cat engines causing your poor fuel mileage..It was the 379 style body..Poor aerodynamics
@@dino9395 how does that explain going to detroit engines with the same truck and getting .7 better mileage? i never ran that engine tho. newest cat i had was a 425 hp 3406b
BECAUSE THEY WERE SO DAMN DEPENDABLE THEY NEVER BROKE AND MECHANICS NEVER GOT TO WORK ON THEM SO THE ONES OUT THERE ARE STILL TRUCKING I LOVE A CAT TRUCK ENGINE
I have 2 of them, 1LW and 5EK, best engines ever, very powerful and reliable, I would never sell my trucks. I owned Detroit S60, it was good engine but no power, especially running hills, but for flat surface it’ll run fantastic
I still run a few cats. Even a 3406c mechanical. But cat screwed themselves. When they built the acert and got slap with nox limits. They through iva at the motor. The alert was designed without iva. It was built a.hihj compression motor to meet the new epa black smoke regulations. Low nox requirements came before launch so they tossed iva at the motor to lower compression when needed to meet nox levels. This system was troublesome at best. It is the very beginning of cat failure in truck motors. Warranty claims for the iva and wiring was constant. This lead to a class action lawsuit against cat for the c13 and c15 motors. Cat settled for 60 million dollars and began closing up shop. Personally nothing against cats. But I've found detroit to be much more reliable and still able to make power and get fuel mileage. Our 98 is 625 hp detroit getting 6.5 in a classic xl condo. Cummins was good but lack of tuning options pushed many away. But they lead the rave in Jake power. In short cat was their own destroyer by not redesigning the acert motor. Instead throwing parts at it and losing in the end.
in my opinnion cat was smart to stop on road engine productions.since the core of their business is off road equipment.it makes more sence to put that money back into the division that made cat world famous to begin with.the fact that they told the EPA to F O makes it that much better.
Yup... but you look at the comments section and quickly see how many refuse to be educated. CAT actually got ahead of emissions. Releasing compliant engines a year or more before mandates. Yes they had issues but they were ahead of the competition... that was going to run into their own problems as well.
I know I'm probably going to get shot for this but here goes it, I'm a diesel mechanic from the 70s and 80s and Cat engines are great, reliable ass hell and strong but the repair costs are huge and the mileage sucked. Mack engines are low horse power 237, 250, 300, 300+, 350 but if you took care of them they would last forever. You just needed the right gearing (tranny and differential) behind the power plant. But mack is no more bought out buy Volvo they no longer mack the Maxidyne engines.
The latest Tier 4 emissions are a real joke. In most cases, it requires DEF and an afterburner. The afterburner alone adds $20K and the emissions improvement is negligible. A close friend of mine was in charge of GM truck CAFE and emissions. He said the EPA was impossible to deal with.
Lets keep it simple, CALIFORNIA SMOG LAWS destroyed CAT engines. It was California that passed the strictest diesel emissions in the country and that affected truck production.
Pretty much anything that’s happened negatively in the Diesel engine around 20yrs ago or less is EPA shit. Detroit stopped making the 2-stroke engines, no more cat engines in trucks, no more mechanical injection, & more issues w trucks. Thanks EPA.🖕
I've driven trucks with all sorts of engines and honestly, I prefer the C15 acert engine. Power delivery is smooth, it doesn't shudder under heavy load and hearing those turbos spool is intoxicating. Even the ARD-head equipped C15s ran hard....when it ran properly of course.
Cat heavy duty engines, 11, 13, 15 and 18 liter. Acert. EPA arrived in Mossville, north of Peoria, with their California tech advisors. I was called into the conference room. They demanded clean air exhaust for 2010 standards when diesel fuel is contaminated. I asked what the contaminates would be. No answer! Just glares. They left to play golf and party. There are 13 distinct markets for this series of engines. The truck engines were cut off by PACCAR because they wanted the replacement parts market. They use European iron and technology with engine Assy in Texas. The 2006, C13 had 6.8 gpm coast to coast with 40,000 pound trailer load. I wanted cogeneration for 2010 acert which is 6 to 12% efficiency increase depending on weather.
Was a cat mechanic in 80s and early 90s when the 60 series Detroit came out and I became an owner operator and I'm still running a manual c model in my truck today don't an on giving up on it anytime soon even tho it has millions of miles on it and it's worn out yet again lol
Not the whole story, the finale was a court order to Navistar in a court case initiated by Volvo charging that the Cat/Navistar co- venture was getting away with selling engines and trucks that did not meet EPA specs, and paying a fine on each one they sold ( on the order of 2500.00 ea.), and that the rest of the industry ( who probably chipped in on the case) had invested billions into the tech and manufacturing facilities to meet specs, and were doing so. The court gave Navistar an order in mid 2012 to produce an engine that met the specs by the end of 2012, or shut down production. As was, Navistar had non-recoverable warranty issues that were budgeted at 125mil that year, but had already hit 250mil, and were actually telling customers that they could not fix the issues with those engines. So, the joint venture got shut down, Navistar went to Cummins to get engines to stay in production with, and that was the end of that story.
We run an all cat powered fleet. As long our blocks stay with us we will rebuild them with cat parts and run them until the EPA bans them. There is no substitute for yellow power!
Will the cat parts from China hold up?not a chance.
Ain't got nothing on my Volvo power
Lol 😆
@@daleolson3506 most rebuild parts are made in the USA.
@@timhall7450 also Chinese
Cat got sick of trying to meet emissions requirements. Truck engines were a small part of their business, so they decided to get out. CAT was my favorite engine.
Yes, i worked with the guy who nixxed the project. Emissions were changing every couple years, complicating everything, and it wasn't as financially viable nor worth the constant government headaches.
Yes the Emissions also has made the ford 6.7s diesels are junk always in for warranty work unreliable
Especially in cold weather here in Canada exhaust fluid freezes into a block then the heaters fail total garbage and puts engine in limp mode lol
In other words, increasing cost of emissions compliance forced a consolidation in the industry. It’s only profitable to sink billions of dollars into emissions R&D when you can spread that cost out across a high number of units. So it forces the industry to consolidate so that only 2 or 3 major engine manufacturers have to make that R&D investment.
The good old 3406.
I had two tractors with the 3306 engine, a 966 loader and a 528 grapple skidder. Those were great engines and easily reparable out in the field. Having been a logger for over 20 years, I miss what happened to our country. For that matter, the destruction of our way of life...
We still run 3406 B,C and Es as well as C15C. They are all excellent engines. We don’t go to California any more and would rather cut our hands and feet off rather than go there again.
Is this part of the problem with the supply chain demand?
@@itruck96 California absolutely does not pay top freight unless it's intrastate. Freight leaving doesn't pay squat.
Commifornia
I live in CA, I drove a truck with a 3406B in it and loved it until we had to sell it in 2019. We still have a truck with a C13 acert but it’s kind of a pile of junk.
I rebuild 2 stroke detroit diesels in riverside ca.. the state wants to shit us down however they won’t because much of the state and local equipment still has old detroit diesels in it and who do they come to when stuff needs fixin? Us.. we also repair and maintain some of the fire departments old detroit fire trucks when needed.. many of the new fire trucks aren’t that reliable and are constantly having issues so many fire departments opted to keep 1 or 2 old detroits around for backup.. i think there’s 17 in riverside alone.. not to mention genrators, well pumps, drill rigs etc that still have old screamin Jimmy’s…
Kenworth in Australia didn’t refuse to put CAT or Detroit engines in their trucks, those two companies refused to supply them. When Kenworth in Australia got wind that Caterpillar weren’t going to supply any more, they stockpiled as many engines as they could. Cummins had failures pulling our big weights, and the Series 60 wasn’t powerful enough. A lot of people here cursed Caterpillar for that, as it was and still is a very popular engine. The CAT truck here was an abject failure and didn’t last long. The CAT 3408 in my truck has done huge hours since it was made in 1980 and I still work it hauling 80 tons roadtrains over long distances. Enjoyed your video.
That's insane, thanks for the information
The 3126 is pretty much bullet proof minus the oiling heui system its good
How many hp you got?
Is there any good way for us newer drivers to get our hands on cat engines and still run in California?
Likely CAT decided to not pursue any more business with Paccar, anywhere.
Anyways, they wouldn't necessarily manufacture and supply parts and support for one market, specially one that isn't that big. No offense, but the population in Australia is kinda small, so the demand for trucks wouldn't be that big to justify the running costs to maintain the market, specially if there was already a great likelyhood that aussies would follow emissions legislations similar to the EU, US and Canada.
I work at Cat and I believe one of the reasons they got out of on highway engines was because they didn’t have engineers that could figure out how to stay in the market because most of the engineers I deal with over the last few years are contracted, so many don’t have the knowledge from the design stage to an actual working part that is proven. More of the “old guys” that deal with this stuff for decades have left and that knowledge hasn’t been replaced, unfortunately. Cat made a big mistake when they threw in the towel on these OTR engines because they had a cult-like following.
I agree with the cult like following. Great loyalty to Cat. My 3408 was heavy and expensive but it was worth it. Got 20,000 hours of service with no problems. Knew a driver who pulled a box trailer who had a cartoon painting of Garfield the cat on his back door; the caption said, “You could have had a V-8.”
I have driven the 1693TA, 3406PC, 3406A, 3406B, and still diving a 3406E, I have to say These engines are the greatest.
If the environmentalist and government is so keen on slapping restrictive measures on vehicle engines for all the crap of smog control, then start applying it to those rich owned private jets and their engines that are flying high and polluting the atmosphere up high, to what is called direct injection pollutions. Those jets put out more pollution up high than many thousands of combined vehicles do. I would like to also know what is the health effect issues of the DEF fluid is that I constantly smell from those diesel engines, because that crap stinks horrible.
Not to mention that cargo ships that move shipping containers over seas run on waste engine oil or sometimes crude oil for fuel that is heated up to flow better in the mechanical injection system.
The funny thing is that so many people are deleting their diesels rn people will go the lengths to have a reliable truck emissions free/no DPF.
I just the other day we had a deleted duramax drive in w 300k on the clock, if the owner keeps the DPF off it’ll probably be back w a million if he’s on maintenance.
That DEF is nasty shit, it’ll crystallize on the floor of the shop, & make a mess all to make the exhaust a tad bit cleaner. All the mess, plastic jugs, extra metal in the exhaust, making more carbon than they actually create.
It’s about power, & control. Cows emit more methane gas w farts than all the cars in the us combined! It’s ridiculous. Plus a square acre of trees absorbs a shit ton of carbon per year! It’s called photosynthesis. Trees get the carbon from the air that make oxygen we breathe.
I’ve smelled the DEF fumes from DPF trucks & it’s nasty. Plus the natural smell of diesel exhaust has a sweet smell to it when u start the truck up in the morning.
I’m all for making em cleaner, but it gets to a point where it’s just ridiculous it’s not worth having the regulations at all.
I drive a truck and have never smelled def besides when it gets spilled. Almost all current diesel engines use def now. That includes construction equipment, boats, generators. Planes don’t use diesel so I don’t know how those emissions are controlled.
also the emissions on trucks do more harm then good
@@truefarmer12345 No doubt about that, and any mechanic will agree.
@@blauer2551 It's my understanding that jet fuel A is a super refined diesel fuel.
Many, many years ago, my Dad worked at CAT who paid to send him to school to become a master machinist. Sad to see the old things go by the wayside.
I don't personally run Caterpillar engines in my trucks, but I know a lot of people that do. There's still a lot of 3406B engines on the road. I think overall that was probably Caterpillar's best engine ever made.
They are hard to come by now but indeed, drivers swear by them! Thank you for sharing!
Why don't you run CAT engines in your trucks??
@@k.c.marshall921 Because I'm a Cummins man. Not the Cats are bad, I just prefer my Cummins engines.
@@jeffw.580 Ok..... understand
@@k.c.marshall921 Cummins is a little easier to work on and more cost effective than Cat. You can't beat a big cam Cummins.
Cat continues to make all of their own engines for their equipment, power generation, and locomotive products. About a third of their revenue is based on engine sales. Not sure why he said that Cat stopped producing engines. Also, the main reason that they stopped producing engines was that the truck manufacturers were vertically integrating (building their own engines). Paccar had their own engines, which they were putting into Kenworth and Peterbilt. Volvo had their own engine, and Daimler Benz was putting their own engine into Freightliner. There didn’t seem to be a future for an independent engine maker, let alone two (Cummins and Cat). At that point Cat’s equipment and power generation business was exploding and they had to decide whether to build more capacity to support both the truck industry and the booming equipment/power generation demand. Given the vertical integration happening in the truck industry, they decided to not invest in additional capacity and gave up the trucking business. The trucking business was also low margin for Cat and did not justify continued investment.
There were quite a few facts in this video that I think are wrong
ALL manufacturers had a hard time with emissions, CAT gave it an attempt but decided they didn't need to weather that storm.
At the time their big military contracts for the C7 and C15, which were emissions exempt, was probably enough to not even miss the EPA headaches of the road truck market.
Failed Emissions has killed the trucking industry and small businesses that can’t afford repairs. Extremely smart move by CAT backing out of truck engines. My 1995 DD gets better MPG’s than most new trucks and a lower fuel cost with no DEF .
My whole fleet is with cat engine currently and very rare when we're broke down and there's parts available instant
Any of these running the C15 or C16?
@@thisismagacountry1318 they are c7 doing OTR
@@Frank1776. Any hiring around San Antonio?
@@thisismagacountry1318 it is all over
I've got a Paccar engine in my DAF XF 460bhp and it's great apart from the constant check engine lights. So much so that my workshop told me if it's an orange light then keep driving, and only get worried if it's flashing red.
If I could put an old pre-emissions engine in my truck I would but that kind of practice is not common in the UK.
I get the random lights and feature shutoff issues pretty often in Freightliner Cascadias. 2018 thru 2021, it seems like this is the new standard for trucks these days. Nothing even wrong with the truck, just the computer thinks there is. Would be nice if quality would become a priority again considering how much we have to pay for a new truck.
Your DAF goes tededem tededem.
@@joshk.4470 allegedly, not that I, as a respectable trucking company owner, would ever do such a thing, having the engines deleted gets rid of those issues, and increases fuel mileage substantially, again allegedly, so I’ve heard…..
Pre emissions engine install in the U.K., and most of Europe, Im pretty sure that results in the death penalty. At least life in prison.
Had a 1999 GMC C7500 with the 3126 Cat engine. The greatest thing ever from -39° to +40° always started and ran. Didn't give any problems (as long as a oil change every 10000km)
I miss my C16 600 Cat.with the 2050 lbs of torque. Unbeatable engine.
I live under a rock because I didn’t know any of this. Thank you for making this video. This saddens me greatly, because this just affirms that one day they’re going to make it illegal to use a gas or diesel engine, which I believe they’re already starting to do in California. If not that then all the emissions stuff will ultimately force regular people to give up on Diesel engines. The reason people “delete” the emissions components is because they force you to have all of it on your vehicle but BY GOD when, and I mean WHEN and not IF it breaks, it’s coming out of YOUR pocket to fix because it’s all labeled as a “filter” or “wearable component.” 😡
Wow! that is shocking NEWS bad NEWS. I remember driving a number of different trucks having the 3406 in different models. I always loved listening to the engine run and would turn off the radio for hours on end just to listen the big 6cyl CAT run most of the night (2006 2007)
Cat stopped making over the road hwy tractor engines because they couldn't get the technology right with ACERT and decided to concentrate on their off road cash cow. In 2013 EPA set stringent guidelines for NOX emissions generated because of high engine running heat to reduce carbon particulates captured by the 2007 required diesel particulate filters. Cummins and Detroit realized the way to do this was with an additional SCR catalysts and DEF fluid injection into the exhaust after the particulate filter. CAT was just to big to evolve in time and didn't have the experience needed that Cummins and Detroit developed in Europe. CAT tried to work with the EGR , they called it ACERT Technology, and avoid the additional DEF fluid tank, and that just wasn't good enough to meet NOX levels. Ask Navistar how the EGR path went. Nearly bankrupted them and they had to switch to Cummins engine rather than their Navistar. I know this. I've been with a fire truck manufacturer and went to the seminars and watched the evolution on diesel engines since 2001 . I was also involved in a sale where the customer wanted a CAT engine and I had to warn him he may not get it, and that's exactly what happened. He ended up having to take a Mercedes Benz engine after watching the promised delivery date move back again and again.
That’s correct. They even went the high EGR route with their Perkins line up to 6.6 litres and they are fuel-guzzlers. I know because I run a four cylinder common-rail Perkins 4.4 turbo and also used to sell machines with those engines up to 180hp. Perkins/Cat have now lost the vast majority of their non-Cat customers due to their 2005-on common rail uncompetitive fuel consumption and the need for much larger cooling packs. John Deere went the same way but with more sophisticated variable vane turbos and external EGR, while Perkins went for the cheapest possible build and internal unregulated EGR which results in much fine soot to remove by DPF.
It seems that cat has the DPF and DEF tech down now. The heavy equipment at work uses it. They should get back in.
@@jessdigs
Yes. no large off-road engines can get away with not having both some EGR and Selective Catalytic Conversion [by way of DEF fluid, also called AdBlue] for the latest emission regulations. Cat could have chosen to go more towards the DEF route to start with and they would probably have retained more of their customers.
@@jessdigs But it still doesn't meet the enhanced CA emissions now coming online.
These pollution regs are going to destroy the US trucking industry. I know of at least a DOZEN O/O who had to spend THOUSANDS to keep fixing engines with bad DEF/EGR sensors and valves. My friend quickly learned how to swap out the EGR sensors so the DEF system wouldn't put his Pete in "limp home mode" all the time.
@@swaghauler8334 I honestly don't know that much about the cat emissions. I drive a Peterbilt 10 wheeler dump with the Cummins, and run a John Deere 310 most days. But I am in CA, I work for the biggest utility in the country and we have some nice equipment. All the newer equipment takes DEF and all seems to work well.
I don’t blame Caterpillar for stopping production of truck engines in North America why ruin the best engine ever built. I will keep running my 1MM 600 in my W900 till I can’t climb the steps to drive
7 of my trucks still have c15 that are running strong. CATs are still my favorite engine but the new Cummins x15 have done surprisingly well in my newer trucks
the cummins x15 good on fuel? get a lot of check engine lights? thanks
@@yourchava my company hauls overweight doubles often pulling upwards of 130,000 lbs so I’m not concerned about fuel usually get 4 mpg. We do get lots of engine lights but so far they are minor issues like bad sensors. I haven’t had any major issues to report
All of them are good when proper service is done.
I like Cummins and Cat but I will never again buy a paccar engine. All 5 of my paccars heads cracked at 400k miles exactly and Peterbilt refused to fix them even though they were under warranty
The X15 is a pretty reliable engine. It seems to actually handle this emissions crap a lot better than the ISX. But there’ll never be another kitty cat
It is very simple why cat stopped making truck engines. Regulations like the regen system and def killed the caterpillar engine.
Actually cat got out of the truck engine before def came along
And it was such a small portion of their engine sales, it just wasn't worth the hassle for them to stay in that market anymore. Not even 1/10th of the engines they built went into trucks. The real money is in the big 35xx, C175 and C280s.
@@rrg1214 they got out because they knew these engine with that crap on them would be total garbage and they were right
Cummins was 50 times more advanced. Cats were great after a year when the mechanic cracked into the fuel pump. Believe me, until then my foot was sore from holding down a new b-block. After they got turned up, look out!
My favourite cat engine was one from my youth, the iconic 380! That was serious dozer power back in the day. They had 360’s, the 375’s, 400’s but them 380’s would rock! Most who bought the new 425 A blocks wished they still had their 380’s. All changed with the B- variant.
At the time, Cummins would give you 500 right off the bat in their N-14. No break in period.
they also do very well selling re-man pistons for older engines. I worked at a company that made lots of Cat pistons but the ones coming back in were where the profit margin was. When the engine was torn down and needed new pistons you had to return your old pistons as a core charge, those were sent out to be cleaned and then send back to the factory. Once we had them back we would take out the old brass wrist pin bushings and press in new brass bushings and then send them to pin bore for gaging and new pin bore bored. Then they went back out as re-man pistons as good as new pistons.
WHOA! You forgot about CAT subsidiary Progress Rail which makes diesel locomotives for railroads in North America and around the world. CAT acquired the business in 2010 from GM's ElectroMotive Division, the most prolific diesel locomotive maker in the world.
I worked & retired from Cats foundry in Mapelton, IL. 1977-2008 We would ship 100's of 3406 & 3208 blocks to Mossville machine & assembly plant everyday. I worked on the line for 3208's in the 80's & 90's & we would ship 650-700 blocks seven days a week for years. We also cast all the big blocks for mining, railroad, generators & huge ocean boats. Heads & liners also. Most of the smaller blocks where shipped to their Mexico foundry about the time I retired.
Sitting in an old peterbilt with a c13 right now. Bulletproof truck.
When glider kits became popular again in order to get around "emissions " cat engines were the most requested, I have two, 2ws,5ek absolutely the best, performance horsepower. Torque. And reliability!!
5:49 i worked at the cat plant in seguin, there were in fact rumors of getting back in, usually mentioned as a possibility when talking about future physical expansion of the building and adding a new assembly line
I too work at Cat, we make some of the best injectors! And am proud to be a part of the Cat family!
@@miscellaneousitems3332 Cat used Delphi injectors , same as many other manufacturers.
@@V8Lenny Delphi electronic engine controller from Mexico. Injectors manufactured at a Cat plant in Pontiac, Illinois.
@@larselder874 Acert used Delphi , older ones used Lucas injectors , basicly same company. ECM is Motorola.
@@V8Lenny you are wrong. Viscor flowed down by gravity when arriving in Mossville, IL from Pontiac, IL. The njectors shipped on their side, rather than vertical. When engine arrived at cold test for any interior leaks, we got a false leak message.
Great video although most steering wheels holders have no idea how to do a proper pretrip let alone the history or basic function of a diesel engine. Its sad what happened with Cat but I dont blame them. EPA ruined the diesel engine. Cat had a reputation for reliable engines and the after treatment regulations was throwing that down the toilet for them with their ridiculous new requirements year after year. Of course the other manufacturers got on board because they only see $$$ when you breakdown. Cat on the other hand decided to not participate in the molestation of their customers.
thanks for the comment.
I did not know that.
The EPA makes rules for a reason. Get use to change
@@stocks4bt Ok…..Let’s hear one good one other than to effect socialist control over the population
They do molest customers with the prices of their parts, just like John Deere.
@@blauer2551 like anything that lasts a long time yes their products come at a premium. For that reason. They have to stay in business. Quality OEM parts come at a higher cost.
All 4 of my trucks are Cat powered, 2 3406B's and 2 3406E's. Well technically one of the B's is actually a C converted to a B, it is 2022 and I figured with all the political stuff going on if the C wanted to be a B why not.
...' identifies as a B'🤣😂👌
Well Played Sir...well Played!
Sure, my N5F C15 identifies as an MXS.
CAT saw the writing on the wall with EPA constantly moving the yard stick. So they got out while they had their shir on their back.
And they will NEVER come back to the OTR market. I don't blame them either.
Let me tell you something right now....
I gotta damn.... 379 Peterbilt! With a 320” wheelbase.... 18 speed!! A Twin-Turbo
Kitty-Kat drag’n a damn..... Spread axle bull wagon. A Big Galaxy, peaked & tuned with a Con-nex board! And I’m from Malvern, Arkansas and I’ll blow your damn doors off!!!
My pops still drive an 8v92t so I've never been around CATs but I've always heard all the good things about them
Those who have actually driven a mechanical 3406, know...... those who haven't THINK they know. As a driver, if you gave me a brand new truck today and I had the choice between an old mechanical Cat 3406, or the biggest/newest X15 605 Cummins.... I'd take the 3406 Cat, hands down! I have plenty of miles with both engines and there's no comparison. None! Modern electronic engines are SO neutered 99% of the time by the computer they feel like giant turds. A mechanical 3406 gives you ALL the power ALL the time under your right foot. It feels like you're driving a race car, regardless of what's hitched on the back. Again, those who know.... know.
I had a 3406e with over 600 HP and for the past 3 years i have a 565 HP x15 and so far the Cummins is bulletproof with regular maintenance at 300k kms. Pulls just as well and much quieter.
@@MistaRoyanT
You're comparing two electronically controlled engines.... now go drive a mechanical 3406 and then tell me what you think.
@@SlipFitGarage I'm fairly young (36) so mechanical engines weren't really around when I started driving. Only experience I have is with a little Cummins L10.
@@MistaRoyanT
Well, I'm about 12 years older than you and I was fortunate enough to start driving commercial trucks for a small family owned company around 20-21 years old. They had no brand loyalty to anything. They had trucks of every make/model with engines from every engine manufacturer. Their trucks ranged anywhere from brand new (at that time) to 20+ years old. I've had the pleasure (or, should I say displeasure) of driving all the most common engine/transmission combination ever put on the road. Especially from the 80's, 90's. In later years I've pretty much driven high HP Cummins/18 speed trucks. Anyway, I HAVE driven the older mechanical engines and just like I said in my first comment.... "Those who have driven a mechanical 3406, know. Those who haven't THINK they know". And no offense, but your initial reply proves that statement. You replied comparing two electronic engines. Both of your engines are perfectly fine..... but NEITHER of them comes close to the "seat of the pants" feel of the old mechanical 3406 Cats. They're not even in the same universe. If you're currently driving a 565 Cummins, and you were somehow able to step into an older Pete/Kenworth (for example) with and old 3406 tomorrow, be sure to video record your experience. Lol. From a driver's standpoint.... I'm not talking about fuel economy, cost per mile to operate, emission standards, etc.... I'm talking strictly about the driving experience, you would be SHOCKED at what they call "565 horsepower" today. Because a 425-450 horsepower mechanical 3406 would drive past your truck on its way to top gear while your 565 horsepower truck is still working its was through low range. Seriously...
My 352 cabover has a 3406a in it and my dads 389 glider has a c15. His truck is hands down more powerful than mine. Drives better, runs better, and has loads more power. And mine is turned up. Electronic fuel injection was the best thing to ever happen to internal combustion engines. And he gets better fuel mileage. Idk where you’re getting this from.
I'll keep my 6NZ in my '03 W900L forever. CAT power all the way ! 1,900,000 miles on her, and she still hauls ass ! They really need to dissolve EPA & cut California off the map completely. These 2 are the main problem causes since 20 yrs. ago. And it's getting worse....
Supplying engines to the on-road truck industry has never been a large business in the global Caterpillar company, it has rather been an add-on in what you get when you build large Diesel engines for other uses. When the pollution requirements came, it was no idea for Cat to be in this business
I drove a Cat once with a Cat… yeah that was fun so impactful was the experience that 8 years on I can still recall the door trim falling of as I went to close the door 😂😂
lol yeah just by looking at those trucks says china quality
I've been retired for 15 years now and have not been in nor driven trucks, buses or heavy equipment since 2006. When I did, Caterpillar was the choice I preferred for overall performance. On the bottom end it had the power and torque needed to do the job, wether it was pushing earth or pulling hills from Vail pass in Colorado to cajon pass in Shaky. The 3406 B with 425 horses never let me down on the road. It was reliable, dependable and the get home valve was invaluable. I expirenced several problems with the Cummins engines so Detroit Diesels 8v92 would be my next choice.Thanks for the informative video.
Leave it to un elected bureaucrats to come up with ways to do away with internal combustion engines. This will eventually be a very costly mistake that may well destroy the middle class.
I'm still not convinced with electric vehicles, I don't give a hoot what Musk brags about.
The 1693 was my favorite. I don’t know the newer engines. I was forced to stop wrenching in 87 . I loved cats.
FYI...CAT has NOT stopped making engines...They just stopped bowing to the EPA etc. for 'over the road' equipment. They are still a world renowned engine builder for power generation. Both for emergency power units and fixed platforms.
Ken
Detroit engines were no longer an option in PACCAR vehicles after July 1st of 2001. The reason for that was due to a year prior Detroit Diesel was purchased by Daimler Chrysler, the parent of Freightliner, Sterling and Western Star and therefore competitors of Paccar.
A lot of people hate on series 60 but this is why it’s cool to me to see a 379 with a 60 in it. Just weren’t many.
@@WilleJamesHuff my dad had a Detroit 60 in his, great motor
@@guamazolopez6456 yes they are.
Worked in a diesel shop for 2 years and in that time I've seen and heard a lot of common issues with the ISXs, Series 60s, 3406 CATs, hell even was part of a DD13 swap on a Freightliner because the driver locked the engine up. Will say about the Cats though, specifically the 3406E, dunno if it was all 3406 blocks, but I learned after the first few rebuilds I seen in the shop the plate between the block and head is one area those engines like to fail at over time, and I've seen a couple go up in flames because the starter got stuck on both. Can't beat that sound though, the rattle and spool of a big single turbo on that engine is godly to listen to
Cats spacer plate design
@@FishFind3000 yep
I agree, with everyone’s epa opinions, with that in mind, Reliability, and Dependability, 60 Series Detroit. Hard to beat them. Rebuild to Marine Specifications and all you power hungry gents won’t be disappointed
We had one of the first ones, we called it the sickly series.
What they did in OTR, they do by pulling hundreds of containers, trailers, and shoot, even coal, & iron ore, as they own EMD (Now Progress Rail).
Got a mechanical 3406 in my 94 377 pete, broke the crank, Payson Diesle of Pason Utah rebuilt it, it ducked I had to go from Ohio to Utah but I would do it again in a heartbeat.
The US Military selected the 3126 engine to power the FMTV and LMTV trucks manufactured by Stewart and Stevenson. The 3126 was selected for weight savings as it was a dry cylinder engine, failures were common. The 3226 was a slight improvement, but still under powered compared to the older Cummins 6CTA8.3 engine.
I've got a ton of 3406B miles under my belt, as we drove as teams and racked up 375,000 miles a year. The engines got an in-frame at two years, and the truck replaced at the end of the third year.
Drove so many 3406's cannot count em. Mostly local 5 state area in and around Minnesota. You would think they would always be under a truck hood. But they are doing OK with construction equipment! Good vid!
All of the trucks in our fleet have CAT engines in them. All except one, and that’s the one we drive to CA.
Because Caterpillar refused to add emission controls, because their engineers knew that crap could destroy engines - and they wanted no part of THAT, so they refused to play ball, like the others did - and have caused pain and suffering among truck owners, with the never ending down time.
That said, they still supply engines for the military, so parts will still be around for the forseeable future.
Long live yellow iron! Best engine out there. Wish we still had them!
Ahhh. Ran a truck that had that wonderful 2008 c13. Went through 2 ard heads in a month. One went, got it replaced. Made it about 20 miles from the shop, truck kicked into limp mode we we had it towed back in. Shop replaced the ard head again
My 2002 Kenworth W900 20 Ton wrecker has a beautiful CAT C-15 and I love it, most powerful truck I've ever driven.
Cat exported truck engine till 2017 after leaving american markets, but truck engines was never a huge part of their business
I was a shop Forman at a CAT truck engine shop from 2005-2010. That was the most miserable years of my Diesel engine mechanic career! Literally 4 of the those years I worked on junk and was a punching bag for fleet owners disappointed in their engines.
Interesting.
But I wonder what happened to the once ubiquitous Gardner diesel engines.
As a supervisor at Mossville Engine Center for Cat in early 2000’s this video only scratches the surface.
Back in the 70s my brother-in-law would always tell me he couldn’t have a Peet he’d have a K whopper with a Cat! RIP Hue Collier AKA Polk Salit!
Great video and very informative thanks
My shop is single handedly working to keep 2 stroke detroits alive.. our shop is basically an active museum when it comes to vintage diesels.. we also do cummins 220’s which nobody knows anymore
My first truck ran a 3406B. The truck it sat in was a rolling heap, but the engine was amazing. Great sound, great power, and never missed a beat. Was also lucky enough to spend some time in a CAT rock truck. Those poor things got beat like rented mules 16 hours a day in awful conditions, and were still marvelously reliable. Will always go CAT if I have a choice.
Interesting. I grew up in Illinois where at one time it was said that eight out of ten people worked for caterpillar. My Dad worked for them throughout his career.
Similar situation here. All my family is from the Peoria area. My grandpa, uncle and cousin all worked for CAT in some form or fashion. Grew up around those big machines. Really miss it. I live in NC now, but always remember those good ole days.
Did not mention the tie up with Ford. The 3204 was developed for the Ford Liouville series. Cat built the 2 biggest diesel engine factories in the world to manufacture the 3204. It was after this that Cat attacked the truck market seriously. The 3204 taught Cat about the difference between the requirements for a tractor engine and a truck engine.
Thanx for enlightening me on a subject I did not know existed but still found interesting.
Curious as to what the pollution cost of replacing mechanical engines with electronic engines is. I feel like a mechanical engine that can run 700k before needing a rebuild would still be less polluting then replacing that engine with an electronic engine.
electric engines can go basically forever it's the batteries we need to improve
Great video. Not sure if you covered it in a different video but there was a glider kit program where you could get a new chassis with a reman engine (Car,Cummins,Detroit ) but it ended in 2020. Knowing that program was ending my brother and I picked up two gliders . One with a Detroit and one with a c15. Fantastic engines and should run for a very long time.
Cat and Detroit diesel exited the motorcoach and transit bus market too. They were left with Volvo, Cummins and other engine options remaining as of today.
Gee thanks for telling me about the EVA , AVM and VPN solution for the QBG issues. Once they did that the WRT was replaced by the JHL and VPK. But once the XRT came out, it was only a matter of time that the PSR was never going to replace the KPL, so CAT was SOL.
I worked for Navistar/ International the manufacturer of the CAT truck. when they were trying to make the C-15 work and they literally were cooking and blowing engines. They couldn’t take the higher temps needed to make EGR work because at the time that’s how Navistar was trying to beat the emissions game. If they had used DEF and Aftertreatment it would of worked but Navistar’s strategies were wrong.
The primary reason the truck failed is because they couldn’t offer a 15L at one point Navistar was talking using a ISX 15 and CAT wouldn’t have it.
And then factor in all the 13L engine issues because it was just the Maxxforce 13 painted yellow with minimal changes.
I had a Peterbilt with a 6nz cat engine. Unfortunately I live in California and it was outlawed. At 1 million miles oil testing showed under 10ppm of any metal particles, meaning the engine was like new. I felt pretty bad about getting out of trucking, the air resources board killed my livelihood and everything I had worked for. The egr engines that followed, brand C were a joke. Now I work on garage doors...
You should have played the hand of danger song, because a lot of CAT equiptment were in the safety training video's lol.
Love my C15 6NZ & 3406E...both are big power and sip fuel.
I have a cat 3126 in my rv and love it. good story, thank you for the history of cat
What do you need? I have a guy who scraps busses and theyre low milage and undertuned for about 4k it comes with most the hardware including the transmittion.
I drove a KW water truck with a 1693. Great power, but had to be careful not to break U-joints.
The first year's of Cat Truck were International chassis and and cabs.
They were Paystars with a different hood.
Back in the 80's we had Fire trucks with 3208 engines in them Very reliable had really no serious issues with them. And we would start them cold and run them hard to go t0 fires and rescue calls. We switched to them after running Detroit Diesels for years.
In June 2008, Caterpillar announced it would be exiting the on-highway diesel engine market in the United States before updated 2010 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) emission standards took effect - NOT 2016. From 2011 - 2016 CAT was selling their CT660 Truck (made by Navistar). They ceased production in 2016. Cat Engines for OTR vehicles such as school buses, RV's, and Semi's ceased to exist in 2010.
As a long time truck driver I like the power curve of a Cat engine. Is there another truck engine that could take its place?
I like to thank you for the updating info-clip and wonder why you haven't mentioned the CAT involvement in Australia or was that just a drop of water on a hot rock - sort of speak?
i ran a truck fleet in the 90s. i was a cat 3406 fan for over 10 years but their mileage was always terrible. i ran 379 petes pulling refers coast to coast so 5 mpg was tops. when i complained cat would always blame my drivers. then detroit came out with the 60 series electronic engine so i bought a couple. i instantly went to a 5.7 mpg average. with a fleet that difference really adds up. never bought another cat engine.
I drive a 387 peterbilt with an acert 475 cat engine..Always get 6.5 miles per gallon or better..336 rears..It wasn't cat engines causing your poor fuel mileage..It was the 379 style body..Poor aerodynamics
@@dino9395 how does that explain going to detroit engines with the same truck and getting .7 better mileage? i never ran that engine tho. newest cat i had was a 425 hp 3406b
BECAUSE THEY WERE SO DAMN DEPENDABLE THEY NEVER BROKE AND MECHANICS NEVER GOT TO WORK ON THEM SO THE ONES OUT THERE ARE STILL TRUCKING I LOVE A CAT TRUCK ENGINE
I have 2 of them, 1LW and 5EK, best engines ever, very powerful and reliable, I would never sell my trucks. I owned Detroit S60, it was good engine but no power, especially running hills, but for flat surface it’ll run fantastic
I still run a few cats. Even a 3406c mechanical. But cat screwed themselves. When they built the acert and got slap with nox limits. They through iva at the motor. The alert was designed without iva. It was built a.hihj compression motor to meet the new epa black smoke regulations. Low nox requirements came before launch so they tossed iva at the motor to lower compression when needed to meet nox levels. This system was troublesome at best. It is the very beginning of cat failure in truck motors. Warranty claims for the iva and wiring was constant. This lead to a class action lawsuit against cat for the c13 and c15 motors. Cat settled for 60 million dollars and began closing up shop.
Personally nothing against cats. But I've found detroit to be much more reliable and still able to make power and get fuel mileage. Our 98 is 625 hp detroit getting 6.5 in a classic xl condo. Cummins was good but lack of tuning options pushed many away. But they lead the rave in Jake power.
In short cat was their own destroyer by not redesigning the acert motor. Instead throwing parts at it and losing in the end.
That was the nicest presentation on the CAT engine lineup I have ever seen.
Thank you for watching and sharing! We put a lot of work into the videos!
ua-cam.com/video/6jp4_ipDltk/v-deo.html this one is the best.
in my opinnion cat was smart to stop on road engine productions.since the core of their business is off road equipment.it makes more sence to put that money back into the division that made cat world famous to begin with.the fact that they told the EPA to F O makes it that much better.
Yup... but you look at the comments section and quickly see how many refuse to be educated. CAT actually got ahead of emissions. Releasing compliant engines a year or more before mandates. Yes they had issues but they were ahead of the competition... that was going to run into their own problems as well.
I know I'm probably going to get shot for this but here goes it, I'm a diesel mechanic from the 70s and 80s and Cat engines are great, reliable ass hell and strong but the repair costs are huge and the mileage sucked. Mack engines are low horse power 237, 250, 300, 300+, 350 but if you took care of them they would last forever. You just needed the right gearing (tranny and differential) behind the power plant. But mack is no more bought out buy Volvo they no longer mack the Maxidyne engines.
The latest Tier 4 emissions are a real joke. In most cases, it requires DEF and an afterburner. The afterburner alone adds $20K and the emissions improvement is negligible. A close friend of mine was in charge of GM truck CAFE and emissions. He said the EPA was impossible to deal with.
Thanks for sharing!
Lets keep it simple, CALIFORNIA SMOG LAWS destroyed CAT engines. It was California that passed the strictest diesel emissions in the country and that affected truck production.
Pretty much anything that’s happened negatively in the Diesel engine around 20yrs ago or less is EPA shit. Detroit stopped making the 2-stroke engines, no more cat engines in trucks, no more mechanical injection, & more issues w trucks. Thanks EPA.🖕
Awwwww shucks.... Bet you can't name any benefits of the EPA.
shit once i had a 8k dollar bill from shop, and i am sure there are lots of horror stories out there
@@ShainAndrews : When they close the building at 5pm.
I've driven trucks with all sorts of engines and honestly, I prefer the C15 acert engine. Power delivery is smooth, it doesn't shudder under heavy load and hearing those turbos spool is intoxicating. Even the ARD-head equipped C15s ran hard....when it ran properly of course.
I love my C12…but do not enjoy the very top heavy dealer prices which are a reflection of the too many suits sitting in their offices
Cat heavy duty engines, 11, 13, 15 and 18 liter. Acert. EPA arrived in Mossville, north of Peoria, with their California tech advisors. I was called into the conference room. They demanded clean air exhaust for 2010 standards when diesel fuel is contaminated. I asked what the contaminates would be. No answer! Just glares. They left to play golf and party.
There are 13 distinct markets for this series of engines. The truck engines were cut off by PACCAR because they wanted the replacement parts market. They use European iron and technology with engine Assy in Texas. The 2006, C13 had 6.8 gpm coast to coast with 40,000 pound trailer load. I wanted cogeneration for 2010 acert which is 6 to 12% efficiency increase depending on weather.
what a great channel and great overview....thanks...
Great story telling 👏
Was a cat mechanic in 80s and early 90s when the 60 series Detroit came out and I became an owner operator and I'm still running a manual c model in my truck today don't an on giving up on it anytime soon even tho it has millions of miles on it and it's worn out yet again lol
the c32s in my boat have been fantastic
Not the whole story, the finale was a court order to Navistar in a court case initiated by Volvo charging that the Cat/Navistar co- venture was getting away with selling engines and trucks that did not meet EPA specs, and paying a fine on each one they sold ( on the order of 2500.00 ea.), and that the rest of the industry ( who probably chipped in on the case) had invested billions into the tech and manufacturing facilities to meet specs, and were doing so. The court gave Navistar an order in mid 2012 to produce an engine that met the specs by the end of 2012, or shut down production. As was, Navistar had non-recoverable warranty issues that were budgeted at 125mil that year, but had already hit 250mil, and were actually telling customers that they could not fix the issues with those engines. So, the joint venture got shut down, Navistar went to Cummins to get engines to stay in production with, and that was the end of that story.
Still running cat c7 under hood. Still find parts when needed
How many miles a c7 last?
I am still running my c 16 would not have anything else