An old customer sent me a link to this channel about a week ago. I’ve only watched a few of his vids but from what I’ve seen this gentleman knows what he’s talking about.
Thank you for this video! I had sloppy steering after adding a 2" lift on my JK. I did have the relocation brackets, so I took them off and went with an adjustable front and rear track bar. VIOLA! Problem solved! I'm so glad I watched this video because I was also contemplating a drop drag link. Glad I avoided that hassle! Keep up the good work and awesome videos!
@@dannyestrada4684 this Jeep was one we fixed for a dealership awhile back. Not sure I recall the lift height. When going to a 4" or above, we highly recommend doing a drag link flip kit and raised track bar bracket. Watch our "Steering Geometry" video here on our UA-cam channel.
I wish I had watched this video months ago. I have like everyone else been struggling with steering and front-end wandering issues since I have owned my jeep. This guy nailed it! along with castor adjustment! Great video can't wait to tell others of your video.
So happy to help! We get this issue a lot in our shop and sadly, many of the Jeeps built by local off road shops wind up here for these geometry issues. You're certainly not alone! But hopefully on the right track for a good ride!
@@PlatinumOffRoad So I have a 2020 jeep Gladiator with this problem, it looks like a 6" lift maybe. the pitman arm, tracking mount on the axle and the tracking arm look like they are part of the lift kit. Do I need to replace all 3 of them back to stock, or do I keep the adjustable tracking arm and just replace the pitman and track bar mount to stock?
@corypeterson602 the new JL and JT platform benefits from the drag link flip once you break that 5" lift range. Grab a set of Reid knuckles and do the flip. It'll be a game changer. You'll also need to raise the track bar, just like the video shows. That Reid part # is DBP-JL001R-F
I'm in the process of removing that exact kit! I was concerned about the number of threads showing after installing an OEM one until I saw this vid - thanks for sharing!
99% of death wobble is caused by the caster angle change after your lift stock is 4 deg best for offroad is 6 to 8 degrees. I run 8 deg caster and still have 4 deg positive pinion angle Dont confuse death wobbble with bumpsteer
Help me out here...in this video you say “get rid of the raised track bar bracket” then later in the video you reference your geometry video. In that video you install a kit and it has issues in the test drive and you end up installing a raised track bar bracket lol I don’t have any death wobble, but I have a drifting issue where I drift left and right a little bit and have to battle staying in my lane as I drive down the highway at speed, so I’m trying to do my own diagnosis and solve the issue....obviously researching off UA-cam video, and this had me scratching my head
Your drifting is most likely due to the caster setting. If it's a lifted Jeep, get the caster up in the 5-6.5 degree range and it will tame the tracking. Lower front adjustable control arms will do this for you. As for the raised track bar bracket... one Jeep did NOT have a flipped drag link. In the other video, we flipped the drag link and therefore to compliment the geometry, we also needed to reposition the track bar to match the radius planes. Allowing both the track bar AND drag link to flow in two separate radius that actually do not fight one another and cause bumpsteer. The issue with all the lift kits giving you a raised track bar bracket that goes on the axle side, is that they do not give you a drag link flip. These are sold separate from one another but often not explained that a raised track bar bracket is only done when also doing a drag link flip. To do one and not the other is going to cause conflicting radius of each component and ultimately bumpsteer.
Awesome! Thank you. I’ll get an alignment done to see where the caster is...already have SteerSmarts no drill top mount on the way...and hopefully that solves the problem. Thanks again
I understand you don't want to mention this lift kit manufacturer but I do recognize it. it is the same one that I bought. and guess what? I do have the same exact problem. After a bunch of online research and my local 4wheelparts dealer had told me is exactly what you're doing. Me and my son are replacing all of this nonsense with rubicon express parts. a little more expensive but they are much better quality parts.
Very wise route!! Happy to hear you are getting things on track. We use Rubicon Express for components involved in the steering geometry process (Track Bar, Drag Link, and Tie Rod). We've never been let down and once we had an end began to show slop, they immediately sent us a new end with their lifetime warranty. Proven products at reasonable prices and great customer service!
The death wobble zone for my 09 JK was 50 - 55 mph. I just replaced the 15 years old steering components and everything seems to be a lot tighter, hitting bumps doesn't generate the kind of harshness anymore. Hopefully this will fix the problem for a few years down the road.
Awesome video brother, just bought me OEM pitman arm for my jk , going to follow your advice take out drool pitman and trackbar bracket. THANKS from South, texas
when you say Restore Trackbar placement ? whay i did when took off stock TB length eye to eye 32" installed New adjustable TB to same measurement? thanks
@@gotryche73 just make sure the track bar is mounted to the factory position on both ends, if you're running a stock pitman arm. Always adjust the track bar to center the frame over the axle.. even if it's a totally different measurement from the OE.
I’ve got a 2009 JK. Between 50 to 60 she’s skating back and forth. I’ve had the tires (305) 17 inch, balanced and rotated. Replaced all of the tire rods. New upper control arm bushings. New upper abs lower ball joints. And an alignment. The only things I haven’t changed areLower control arms, pitman and sway bar bushings and links. I can feel the wrangler going back and forth in the front end, but the shifter and steering wheel also have the vibrations…. Thoughts?
I just bought a jku with unfortunately a RC lift. Are suggesting that it better for me to take the dropped pitman arm and trackbar raised bracket and run them factory. It has 3.5 lift on it
Yes. The need to relocate the drag link is to reduce the angle it sets at and brings the radius to a better spot on its flow. With a high pitched drag link and track bar, they will cause the frame to shift over bumps. The closer to level they are, the less movement. Now as for a 3.5" system, we wont address all these changes until 4.5" and higher. Even when we address it, we will never do a dropped pitman arm. We will do like our "Steering Geometry" video and do a drag link flip and a complimenting raised track bar bracket on the axle side.
My steering is binding up could this be the purpose thanks. I recently bought the jeep it already had a lift. It's weird it's intermediate the steering shaft was poorly modified I also just bought a replacement home this is the case
Thanks for posting this video! I have the entry level RC 4" lift, and now I feel it's a bit dangerous. I'm planning to get a stock pitman arm, drag link flip kit, and an adjustable track bar. Wondering how a new adjustable track bar will mount to the axle after removing the RC brackets. Do they all come with their own brackets?
So I have a 4.5 lift and I’m buying new steering components but I have a dropped pitman arm from rough country and it’s worn, I just bought a synergy flipped drag link should I bring it back to factory?
Yes. Ditch ALL the RC products and return to a factory pitman arm. Go to our "Steering Geometry" video and see what we did there. If my memory serves me on the RC track bar bracket... it is still not tall enough to raise the track bar up to a proper position for the flip and you will still end up with some level of bumpsteer.
Just replaced all my tie rod an drag link with synergy on my Dodge Ram 2500. I have a 4” lift with drop pitman arm from before, synergy told me I didn’t need it when I put it all together with the regular pitman arm. Took it off the lift an when I would turn my truck would lift up a shit ton like I’m going to tip..Switched back to the drop pitman arm an is completely fine. BUT I had to put the drag link in through the bottom because of the tapered end but synergy shows it going on top???
Can you help me fix the problem with my 2014 jeep wrangler sport. When ever I'm driving at high speeds (60 to 70mph). I feel a lack of control in steering and the car feels like it's wobbling. This is also my first time owning a jeep. I'm not too sure maybe it's just the crosswinds.
Greta video ! I have a question, do you have any suggestions for that swaying feel in a lifted Jeep JKU ? Side to side sway when going in curves is the issue I have.
I am trying to replace my pitman arm but can't fit the puller between the gear box and the pitman arm. Any thoughts on how I can get the current one off? Thanks!
Quick question? So I have a Jeep Wrangler 2016 sports and I’m having a issue turning it either way left or right I have to put both my hands on the wheel in order to turn any ideas what could be causing it?
That's a very open ended subject. Body sway or more of a counter steer instability? Almost like something under your front end is fighting you and counters your control over bumps?
I keep getting death wobble not when I hit bumps but when I hit 45mph for no reason. I do have badly balanced tires but from what I understand. If every component is fine, an unbalanced tire will not put you into death wobble.
So I don't have a death wobble but there is some occasion's where steering becomes a hassle. For example say I go over a series of shallow pot holes. In doing so I try to turn the steering wheel accordingly and it won't turn until it is on flat ground and not vibrating. Is this a steering Box issue or possibly another lift kit and steering geometry correction problem?
That's a tough one to answer without feeling it or having more info.. So it's difficult to turn while going over the bumps? Or for a short while after the bumps?
The dropped pitman arm? Not at all. As you increase the height, you'll eventually want to convert to a flipped drag link. Usually as you break the 4.5" range.
I'm in the same boat with my 94, major difference is the YJ is on leafs so tracbar isn't really needed, TJ's are coil, so more needed, my 94 has neither tracbar or swaybar
I have a xj that has the drop pitman arm. Should I use standard drop or extended? I have the money to switch the entire steering around I just need death wobble to disappear
Deathwobble on an XY y-link style steering is not due to a pitman arm style. The dropped pitman arm allows the y-link system to reduce the angle of that Y and restore strength into the tie rod unit, and eliminate excessive toe change during bumps. A slopped out system will be the cause. For TJ and XJs focus on fresh steering end links and Ball joints. Lower arms to correct caster is also a focus. The Currie CurrectLync system is a beefy version of that steering and won't allow the tie rod to bow and flex, which is also another cause of deathwobble on a lifted Jeep.
Not from what I've seen. This will be slop and very loose - delayed response to the wheels. Front end vibration is normally tire balance or front driveshaft. Look for a vibration vs shimmy. Shimmy is worn components.
Quick question: I have a 4" MOAB lift with the drop pitman arm and raised track bar bracket. Will going to the stock pitman arm put too sharp if an angle in the tie rod?
My best suggestion is to do a flip kit and raised track bar relocation to compliment the drag link flip. Watch our "Steering Geometry" video if you get the chance and it will all make sense.
An old customer sent me a link to this channel about a week ago. I’ve only watched a few of his vids but from what I’ve seen this gentleman knows what he’s talking about.
Appreciate the feedback and support. We have a handful of unique educational videos in the pipeline.
Thank you for this video! I had sloppy steering after adding a 2" lift on my JK. I did have the relocation brackets, so I took them off and went with an adjustable front and rear track bar. VIOLA! Problem solved! I'm so glad I watched this video because I was also contemplating a drop drag link. Glad I avoided that hassle! Keep up the good work and awesome videos!
Sorry for such delayed response. But super happy to hear this feedback! We appreciate the support and getting back to us with this experience.
Thanks!! Just removed those 3 pieces and put back on stock pitman arm and adjustable track bar. Back to steering perfectly!!
Awesome to hear!!!
What size lift you got ?
I got a 4 inch lift and I think I got to do the same !
@@dannyestrada4684 this Jeep was one we fixed for a dealership awhile back. Not sure I recall the lift height. When going to a 4" or above, we highly recommend doing a drag link flip kit and raised track bar bracket. Watch our "Steering Geometry" video here on our UA-cam channel.
@@dannyestrada4684 I have 3.5 Rough Country. Once I did this fix it corrected all my issues. It even corrected the track control problem that I had...
What if i have a flip kit? would I need to have raise track bar bracket?
I wish I had watched this video months ago. I have like everyone else been struggling with steering and front-end wandering issues since I have owned my jeep. This guy nailed it! along with castor adjustment! Great video can't wait to tell others of your video.
So happy to help! We get this issue a lot in our shop and sadly, many of the Jeeps built by local off road shops wind up here for these geometry issues. You're certainly not alone! But hopefully on the right track for a good ride!
@@PlatinumOffRoad So I have a 2020 jeep Gladiator with this problem, it looks like a 6" lift maybe. the pitman arm, tracking mount on the axle and the tracking arm look like they are part of the lift kit. Do I need to replace all 3 of them back to stock, or do I keep the adjustable tracking arm and just replace the pitman and track bar mount to stock?
@corypeterson602 the new JL and JT platform benefits from the drag link flip once you break that 5" lift range. Grab a set of Reid knuckles and do the flip. It'll be a game changer. You'll also need to raise the track bar, just like the video shows. That Reid part # is DBP-JL001R-F
I'm in the process of removing that exact kit! I was concerned about the number of threads showing after installing an OEM one until I saw this vid - thanks for sharing!
99% of death wobble is caused by the caster angle change after your lift stock is 4 deg best for offroad is 6 to 8 degrees. I run 8 deg caster and still have 4 deg positive pinion angle Dont confuse death wobbble with bumpsteer
Help me out here...in this video you say “get rid of the raised track bar bracket” then later in the video you reference your geometry video. In that video you install a kit and it has issues in the test drive and you end up installing a raised track bar bracket lol
I don’t have any death wobble, but I have a drifting issue where I drift left and right a little bit and have to battle staying in my lane as I drive down the highway at speed, so I’m trying to do my own diagnosis and solve the issue....obviously researching off UA-cam video, and this had me scratching my head
Your drifting is most likely due to the caster setting. If it's a lifted Jeep, get the caster up in the 5-6.5 degree range and it will tame the tracking. Lower front adjustable control arms will do this for you.
As for the raised track bar bracket... one Jeep did NOT have a flipped drag link. In the other video, we flipped the drag link and therefore to compliment the geometry, we also needed to reposition the track bar to match the radius planes. Allowing both the track bar AND drag link to flow in two separate radius that actually do not fight one another and cause bumpsteer.
The issue with all the lift kits giving you a raised track bar bracket that goes on the axle side, is that they do not give you a drag link flip. These are sold separate from one another but often not explained that a raised track bar bracket is only done when also doing a drag link flip. To do one and not the other is going to cause conflicting radius of each component and ultimately bumpsteer.
Awesome! Thank you.
I’ll get an alignment done to see where the caster is...already have SteerSmarts no drill top mount on the way...and hopefully that solves the problem.
Thanks again
Nice choice in tires ! I have the same ones on my jku
I understand you don't want to mention this lift kit manufacturer but I do recognize it. it is the same one that I bought. and guess what? I do have the same exact problem.
After a bunch of online research and my local 4wheelparts dealer had told me is exactly what you're doing. Me and my son are replacing all of this nonsense with rubicon express parts. a little more expensive but they are much better quality parts.
Very wise route!! Happy to hear you are getting things on track. We use Rubicon Express for components involved in the steering geometry process (Track Bar, Drag Link, and Tie Rod). We've never been let down and once we had an end began to show slop, they immediately sent us a new end with their lifetime warranty. Proven products at reasonable prices and great customer service!
The death wobble zone for my 09 JK was 50 - 55 mph. I just replaced the 15 years old steering components and everything seems to be a lot tighter, hitting bumps doesn't generate the kind of harshness anymore. Hopefully this will fix the problem for a few years down the road.
Awesome video brother, just bought me OEM pitman arm for my jk , going to follow your advice take out drool pitman and trackbar bracket. THANKS from South, texas
Appreciate the support! Let us know how it goes. Be sure to restore track bar placement too!
when you say Restore Trackbar placement ? whay i did when took off stock TB length eye to eye 32" installed New adjustable TB to same measurement? thanks
@@gotryche73 just make sure the track bar is mounted to the factory position on both ends, if you're running a stock pitman arm. Always adjust the track bar to center the frame over the axle.. even if it's a totally different measurement from the OE.
Really appreciate the Help
Wanna say Thanks to Platinum Off Road..really helped me out with my JK, it drives like a champ now
My JK is moving left right without turning steering wheel, lifted. What can i do to stabilize
I’ve got a 2009 JK. Between 50 to 60 she’s skating back and forth. I’ve had the tires (305) 17 inch, balanced and rotated. Replaced all of the tire rods. New upper control arm bushings. New upper abs lower ball joints. And an alignment. The only things I haven’t changed areLower control arms, pitman and sway bar bushings and links. I can feel the wrangler going back and forth in the front end, but the shifter and steering wheel also have the vibrations…. Thoughts?
Increase caster angle with a set of lower arms. Extend them between 3/8" to 1/2" over stock length.
I just bought a jku with unfortunately a RC lift. Are suggesting that it better for me to take the dropped pitman arm and trackbar raised bracket and run them factory. It has 3.5 lift on it
Yes. The need to relocate the drag link is to reduce the angle it sets at and brings the radius to a better spot on its flow. With a high pitched drag link and track bar, they will cause the frame to shift over bumps. The closer to level they are, the less movement. Now as for a 3.5" system, we wont address all these changes until 4.5" and higher.
Even when we address it, we will never do a dropped pitman arm. We will do like our "Steering Geometry" video and do a drag link flip and a complimenting raised track bar bracket on the axle side.
Thank you for this video! Fixed my JK
Excellent!! So glad to hear such feedback and support for the channel!! This is exactly the reason we put in the work
Excellent vid straightforward forward info
My steering is binding up could this be the purpose thanks. I recently bought the jeep it already had a lift. It's weird it's intermediate the steering shaft was poorly modified I also just bought a replacement home this is the case
Thanks for posting this video! I have the entry level RC 4" lift, and now I feel it's a bit dangerous. I'm planning to get a stock pitman arm, drag link flip kit, and an adjustable track bar. Wondering how a new adjustable track bar will mount to the axle after removing the RC brackets. Do they all come with their own brackets?
So I have a 4.5 lift and I’m buying new steering components but I have a dropped pitman arm from rough country and it’s worn, I just bought a synergy flipped drag link should I bring it back to factory?
Yes. Ditch ALL the RC products and return to a factory pitman arm. Go to our "Steering Geometry" video and see what we did there. If my memory serves me on the RC track bar bracket... it is still not tall enough to raise the track bar up to a proper position for the flip and you will still end up with some level of bumpsteer.
Just replaced all my tie rod an drag link with synergy on my Dodge Ram 2500. I have a 4” lift with drop pitman arm from before, synergy told me I didn’t need it when I put it all together with the regular pitman arm. Took it off the lift an when I would turn my truck would lift up a shit ton like I’m going to tip..Switched back to the drop pitman arm an is completely fine. BUT I had to put the drag link in through the bottom because of the tapered end but synergy shows it going on top???
Any suggestions?
Can you help me fix the problem with my 2014 jeep wrangler sport. When ever I'm driving at high speeds (60 to 70mph). I feel a lack of control in steering and the car feels like it's wobbling. This is also my first time owning a jeep. I'm not too sure maybe it's just the crosswinds.
Find us on Facebook or Instagram and send a message. Certainly willing to help. Are you near north Texas, United States?
Greta video !
I have a question, do you have any suggestions for that swaying feel in a lifted Jeep JKU ?
Side to side sway when going in curves is the issue I have.
I am trying to replace my pitman arm but can't fit the puller between the gear box and the pitman arm. Any thoughts on how I can get the current one off? Thanks!
Quick question? So I have a Jeep Wrangler 2016 sports and I’m having a issue turning it either way left or right I have to put both my hands on the wheel in order to turn any ideas what could be causing it?
Any opinions one rear trackbar relocation bracket use? A popular kit made by AEV uses their kits?
would this also cause a sway after all other steering links and ball joints replaced?
That's a very open ended subject. Body sway or more of a counter steer instability? Almost like something under your front end is fighting you and counters your control over bumps?
Any info for this situation for a 94 YJ?
I keep getting death wobble not when I hit bumps but when I hit 45mph for no reason. I do have badly balanced tires but from what I understand. If every component is fine, an unbalanced tire will not put you into death wobble.
I had unbalanced tired on a Camero years ago. It was scary how bad it wobbled.
@@jk-76 it was the beads bags that never broke in the tire and they were causing me death wobble
Hahahah wait, they literally just tossed the bag of beads in there?? Not open them and pour them in?
@@PlatinumOffRoad yeah but the company that sells them says to do so and that the bag will eventually fall apart
Is that hidden falls?
So I don't have a death wobble but there is some occasion's where steering becomes a hassle. For example say I go over a series of shallow pot holes. In doing so I try to turn the steering wheel accordingly and it won't turn until it is on flat ground and not vibrating. Is this a steering Box issue or possibly another lift kit and steering geometry correction problem?
That's a tough one to answer without feeling it or having more info.. So it's difficult to turn while going over the bumps? Or for a short while after the bumps?
Is this also good for a 2002 WJ ?
I have a 2015 JK . 3.5 lift kit. I don't need that?
The dropped pitman arm? Not at all. As you increase the height, you'll eventually want to convert to a flipped drag link. Usually as you break the 4.5" range.
So on a yj or tj, a drop pitman/flip kit/high steer kit would be necessary for steering geometry?
I'm in the same boat with my 94, major difference is the YJ is on leafs so tracbar isn't really needed, TJ's are coil, so more needed, my 94 has neither tracbar or swaybar
So much sloppy steering out there in the Jeep world
I have a xj that has the drop pitman arm. Should I use standard drop or extended? I have the money to switch the entire steering around I just need death wobble to disappear
Deathwobble on an XY y-link style steering is not due to a pitman arm style. The dropped pitman arm allows the y-link system to reduce the angle of that Y and restore strength into the tie rod unit, and eliminate excessive toe change during bumps. A slopped out system will be the cause. For TJ and XJs focus on fresh steering end links and Ball joints. Lower arms to correct caster is also a focus. The Currie CurrectLync system is a beefy version of that steering and won't allow the tie rod to bow and flex, which is also another cause of deathwobble on a lifted Jeep.
@@PlatinumOffRoad it has 1 ton steering from cav fab. Have yet to try it out on the highway but just got it back from the alignment shop
Could this cause a vibration in the front end and steering?
Not from what I've seen. This will be slop and very loose - delayed response to the wheels. Front end vibration is normally tire balance or front driveshaft. Look for a vibration vs shimmy. Shimmy is worn components.
Yes it can
Quick question: I have a 4" MOAB lift with the drop pitman arm and raised track bar bracket. Will going to the stock pitman arm put too sharp if an angle in the tie rod?
My best suggestion is to do a flip kit and raised track bar relocation to compliment the drag link flip. Watch our "Steering Geometry" video if you get the chance and it will all make sense.
I remember when mine had 30k Miles .. now I'm at 76k 😠
Weld it
/
this apply to 99 xj?
Based on actual experience, Rough Country uses a very low grade metal in all their products. Always has and never surprised on all makes and models