Loved the recovery info at the end. It’s a serious medical condition that has real recovery as the cure. It’s so difficult for runners in training mode to not try to keep training for any length of time.
I overtrained really badly in my first 6 to 8 months when I started running 3 years ago. I was seeing so much progress but I couldn’t help but “double dip” and go for even more gains. I was doing some V02 max and a lot of threshold in place of easy running. Long story short I trained my way up to 35 miles a week too quickly and ran my first half marathon in training in 1 hour and 45 minutes. Too much volume soon too after my first half and things started spiraling. I came home from my next long run, which I ran way too hard, but my heart rate was totally spiked at a pace it shouldn’t have been. I couldn’t get it down. I had cold sweats for hours with nausea. No appetite. Dizziness. My wife was justifiably worried. Before overtraining my easy Z2 paces were 8:45-9:15/mi at around 135bpm which changed to 11/mi at more like 145bpm with a fight. Everything changed. I didn’t at all feel like the same person or athlete. Libido was even down. Here I am two years later and I just now feel like I’m scratching where I was in terms of speed then. it feels like I lost a lot of time sometimes but my aerobic base is much larger now. Don’t overtrain people.
I've dealt with overtraining twice, and both times were due to intensity. In 2000, in basic training, the drill sergeants insisted on speedwork after literally every single run. By the end, I was literally physically incapable of sprinting, and I was easily 20-30 yards behind everyone else. (I still passed the APFT for the two mile and was 22 seconds from a max score, but there was no kick at all.) The second was in 2014 when I tried HIIT. I was fine for the first three weeks, but then I was shot. As Scott Douglas pointed out in _The Little Red Book of Running,_ very few of us get anywhere near our volume limit.
When i was 16, i (foolishly and without coaches who knew better) started following the Lydiard method, regularly running 100 mile weeks. (At a running camp i ran 350 miles in two weeks. ) I continued this into college, where i lasted a year at one of the very best running colleges in the nation. Physically, i could take this! Psychologically, at age 19, i became nauseated at the very thought of going for a run. Though stopping running at that stage in my life did free me to focus on some areas in my life that substantially improved the quality of my entire life. At this stage, memories of long distance training as a youth propel me on my long runs. And I'm a competitive age group (70-74) runner.
Will follow your guidance. This week i suspected that I am overtraining because I could not complete workouts that were medium hard by doable the past 6 weeks. Felt heavy legs, heavy breathings with zone 2-low-3 running! It’s been 6 days so far. Naturally my volume is 30-40% from past 6 weeks. I am not pushing myself to get back on track and hoping that things will go back to normal soon
Damn, i check everything you said in the video. My heart rate is elevated for two months, my immune system is going up and down, and i have 1 good week and then 1 terrible week. Cannot sleep properly, cannot recover properly as well. Even my HRV is down
I really love and appreciate your content and this video in particular. However, I think your extrapolation that few people have overtraining is flawed. You mentioned your cross country years and took fellow 300 runners as a sample. I would argue that these people a) young b) had proper coaching and programs c) did not work a stressful full time job in parallel and d) had adequate time to recover, especially sleep. I don’t disagree with the content at all, but I think we need to be mindful that active amateur runner’s in their 30’s and 40’s can overdo it very quickly and end up overtraining. Many skimp on sleep to cram as much training, work and family life in as possible, which is burning a candle on both ends. This said, keep on the great work 🙂 Looking forward for new content!
I do two speedwork days per week, every week. I run 110-120 miles per week very consistently. Just this week, I've notice my HR in the 140s for easy Zone 2 runs, which are typically 110s or low 120s. I have no trouble sleeping, but the elevated HR and quicker fatigue had me slightly concerned. Of course, my body could just be fighting off another infection at this time. I don't know.
@@JasonFitzgerald I just always hear consistency is king, so I stay consistent. Every Sunday and Tuesday, I do a workout (tempo, fartlek, HIIT). The exception, obviously, is the week after a marathon.
i got a lot better over the last two weeks with just 3-5 trainings per week. no need to train so much that you feel tired in my opinion. My goal is to enjoy running
@JasonFitzgerald i took a lot of your advice out of many podcasts and interviews you put out over the last years, liked most of your videos so no offense, and as i said i did improve. i just shared my opinion that training too a point of beeing in a generel tiredness after every training may not be necessary to get better. but of course everyone will find a balance that fits with him or her.
@@heinrichh.6369 I agree. For some of us, we run for enjoyment, health and longevity. Becoming faster "improving" is just icing on an already satisfying cake.
Fun fact OTS isn’t well understood and many researchers agree that life stressors can be so high that any level of training will put you into an OTS stage.
That's right, your central nervous system is made of both anyway. If you're overtraining your hormones are all messed up which is ultimately what people need to understand. Overtraining has nothing to do with aches and pain. You can train too much to the point of getting a stress fracture and not be in an overtraining state. Either way the recovery is very long, so it's important to be aware of it and take the right measures when you're experiencing the early signs of overtraining.
I'm curious how fueling plays into overtraining? I'm assuming it would be easier to experience total systemic exhaustion if you're not getting enough calories to fuel the workouts and life?
It seems like not eating enough after a workout would play into it. The reason I say that is I know I get a bit of insomnia if a workout was too hard, and the same if don't eat enough after a workout. I'm thinking that's largely caused by the role refuelling has in processing cortisol. Without intense training I can underfuel and seem to be fine, it's just harder to get going (but if that is prolonged there's a higher risk of stress fractures).
It's not about the calories though. It's about the amount of nutrients you're getting through food and the quality of it. Hormones are chemicals, you need the basic constituents to make them. In particular zinc copper and selenium are known to help your immune system, the best source for all of them as far as I know are oysters. But at this point of the year you might also get iron deficiencies for instance so that's why it's best to keep a balanced diet.
I do think "normal" runners (i.e. non-pro) need to be much more aware of life stress, sleep, "busyness," etc. It's probably why it's easier to hit your PR's in your 20's before kids, a serious career, mortgage, etc.
Great video! Well done!
Loved the recovery info at the end. It’s a serious medical condition that has real recovery as the cure.
It’s so difficult for runners in training mode to not try to keep training for any length of time.
I overtrained really badly in my first 6 to 8 months when I started running 3 years ago. I was seeing so much progress but I couldn’t help but “double dip” and go for even more gains. I was doing some V02 max and a lot of threshold in place of easy running. Long story short I trained my way up to 35 miles a week too quickly and ran my first half marathon in training in 1 hour and 45 minutes. Too much volume soon too after my first half and things started spiraling. I came home from my next long run, which I ran way too hard, but my heart rate was totally spiked at a pace it shouldn’t have been. I couldn’t get it down. I had cold sweats for hours with nausea. No appetite. Dizziness. My wife was justifiably worried. Before overtraining my easy Z2 paces were 8:45-9:15/mi at around 135bpm which changed to 11/mi at more like 145bpm with a fight. Everything changed. I didn’t at all feel like the same person or athlete. Libido was even down.
Here I am two years later and I just now feel like I’m scratching where I was in terms of speed then. it feels like I lost a lot of time sometimes but my aerobic base is much larger now. Don’t overtrain people.
thank you for sharing & good luck with your journey 🙏
I've dealt with overtraining twice, and both times were due to intensity. In 2000, in basic training, the drill sergeants insisted on speedwork after literally every single run. By the end, I was literally physically incapable of sprinting, and I was easily 20-30 yards behind everyone else. (I still passed the APFT for the two mile and was 22 seconds from a max score, but there was no kick at all.)
The second was in 2014 when I tried HIIT. I was fine for the first three weeks, but then I was shot.
As Scott Douglas pointed out in _The Little Red Book of Running,_ very few of us get anywhere near our volume limit.
When i was 16, i (foolishly and without coaches who knew better) started following the Lydiard method, regularly running 100 mile weeks. (At a running camp i ran 350 miles in two weeks. )
I continued this into college, where i lasted a year at one of the very best running colleges in the nation.
Physically, i could take this! Psychologically, at age 19, i became nauseated at the very thought of going for a run.
Though stopping running at that stage in my life did free me to focus on some areas in my life that substantially improved the quality of my entire life.
At this stage, memories of long distance training as a youth propel me on my long runs. And I'm a competitive age group (70-74) runner.
Will follow your guidance. This week i suspected that I am overtraining because I could not complete workouts that were medium hard by doable the past 6 weeks. Felt heavy legs, heavy breathings with zone 2-low-3 running! It’s been 6 days so far. Naturally my volume is 30-40% from past 6 weeks. I am not pushing myself to get back on track and hoping that things will go back to normal soon
Damn, i check everything you said in the video.
My heart rate is elevated for two months, my immune system is going up and down, and i have 1 good week and then 1 terrible week.
Cannot sleep properly, cannot recover properly as well. Even my HRV is down
I really love and appreciate your content and this video in particular. However, I think your extrapolation that few people have overtraining is flawed. You mentioned your cross country years and took fellow 300 runners as a sample. I would argue that these people a) young b) had proper coaching and programs c) did not work a stressful full time job in parallel and d) had adequate time to recover, especially sleep.
I don’t disagree with the content at all, but I think we need to be mindful that active amateur runner’s in their 30’s and 40’s can overdo it very quickly and end up overtraining. Many skimp on sleep to cram as much training, work and family life in as possible, which is burning a candle on both ends.
This said, keep on the great work 🙂 Looking forward for new content!
I do two speedwork days per week, every week. I run 110-120 miles per week very consistently. Just this week, I've notice my HR in the 140s for easy Zone 2 runs, which are typically 110s or low 120s. I have no trouble sleeping, but the elevated HR and quicker fatigue had me slightly concerned. Of course, my body could just be fighting off another infection at this time. I don't know.
I'd worry about anybody who runs two workouts per week, every week. There is a time for 1 and 0 hard workouts per week!
@@JasonFitzgerald I just always hear consistency is king, so I stay consistent. Every Sunday and Tuesday, I do a workout (tempo, fartlek, HIIT). The exception, obviously, is the week after a marathon.
i got a lot better over the last two weeks with just 3-5 trainings per week. no need to train so much that you feel tired in my opinion. My goal is to enjoy running
My goal is to help runners improve. I may not be the best YT channel for you to follow.
@JasonFitzgerald i took a lot of your advice out of many podcasts and interviews you put out over the last years, liked most of your videos so no offense, and as i said i did improve.
i just shared my opinion that training too a point of beeing in a generel tiredness after every training may not be necessary to get better. but of course everyone will find a balance that fits with him or her.
@@heinrichh.6369 I agree. For some of us, we run for enjoyment, health and longevity. Becoming faster "improving" is just icing on an already satisfying cake.
Fun fact OTS isn’t well understood and many researchers agree that life stressors can be so high that any level of training will put you into an OTS stage.
Isn't the fight or flight system the Sympathetic NS? You said parasympathetic.
correct fight/ flight is sympathetic
Oops, yes you are correct!
That's right, your central nervous system is made of both anyway. If you're overtraining your hormones are all messed up which is ultimately what people need to understand. Overtraining has nothing to do with aches and pain. You can train too much to the point of getting a stress fracture and not be in an overtraining state. Either way the recovery is very long, so it's important to be aware of it and take the right measures when you're experiencing the early signs of overtraining.
I'm curious how fueling plays into overtraining? I'm assuming it would be easier to experience total systemic exhaustion if you're not getting enough calories to fuel the workouts and life?
It seems like not eating enough after a workout would play into it. The reason I say that is I know I get a bit of insomnia if a workout was too hard, and the same if don't eat enough after a workout. I'm thinking that's largely caused by the role refuelling has in processing cortisol. Without intense training I can underfuel and seem to be fine, it's just harder to get going (but if that is prolonged there's a higher risk of stress fractures).
Insufficient fueling makes everything worse, so it's definitely a contributor
It's not about the calories though. It's about the amount of nutrients you're getting through food and the quality of it. Hormones are chemicals, you need the basic constituents to make them. In particular zinc copper and selenium are known to help your immune system, the best source for all of them as far as I know are oysters. But at this point of the year you might also get iron deficiencies for instance so that's why it's best to keep a balanced diet.
Guyss, how much hours are you exersizing in a week? Im doing 15 hours in aweek, is that much or nah?
That's pretty great!
How I always understood it is that average dedicated hobby runner is overtrained from real life already so that’s why stage 1 hits so hard. 😅
I do think "normal" runners (i.e. non-pro) need to be much more aware of life stress, sleep, "busyness," etc. It's probably why it's easier to hit your PR's in your 20's before kids, a serious career, mortgage, etc.
Let the humble bragging commence. Wait it already did😅.
Including me.