Why I Liked the Enve Fray So Much, I Had to Get One for Myself
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- I liked the Enve Fray so much, that after 165 miles of riding it, I bought one to replace one of my current bikes (take a guess down below). The Enve Fray has 40mm tire clearance while only sacrificing 3.3 watts over the Enve Melee, making it an exceptional road bike to for riding road and gravel and everything in between.
Instagram: @outdoorbros_
More info about the Enve Fray: www.enve.com
0:00 Intro
0:29 Predecessors: Melee and MOG
1:42 The Specs
2:27 Aesthetics
3:14 Modern Looks
4:05 Storage
4:54 Additional Specs
5:38 Performance/Ride Quality
6:36 The Sweet Spot
7:38 Managing Expectations
8:30 Value
8:49 Price Breakdown
10:07 Yay or Nay? The Conclusion
10:31 The Evolution of the Road Bike
11:00 Why Most SHOULD Be Riding the Fray
11:47 Consult Your Local Bike Fitter
How would you build your Enve Fray? 👇🏻
Found high head tube in tandem with a negative rise stem keeps me super comfy in the drops plus aero, possibly even go a size up in frame size to vary my riding position more latterally, further back while cruising, further forward over the BB on climbs
I wouldn’t. I’ll stick with my Cervelo Aspero, which costs half the price of the Fray frameset!
Full aero road mode, 1x12 Sram Red (maybe with the xplr shifter and 10-44 cassette for range in the hills) with the t48-50 aero chainring, Reserve 63/52, GP 5000 28m, Sup 7 kg, if possible. What is the totalweight of your build? The Giant Defy Advanced SL was top of my short list, but this one and the recent BMC Roadmachine 01 are very real contenders.
Would I have to sell my Zipp wheels so I can get Enve's to match?? LOL
I’m interested! Can I go with the integrated stem/bar and still be able to bag/box it to take on a plane? Cheers, Ken
Fast forward 3-6 months “why I sold my ENVE Fray and bought an S-Works…” 😂😂😂
This guy is the worst. So fickle.
And then steel is real, titanium, rim brakes are still relevant, and then back to aero is everything. It's a vicious cycle. Sometimes I wonder if it's big bike in the driver's seat or if the social media algorithm is driving 🤖👽
Haha, unlikely.
The worst, right? Fickle? Naw.
Just here to ride bikes and talk about them 🤷🏼♂️
Great review. I purchased an Enve Melee in January and I absolutely love the bike. It checks all of the boxes for me: light, fast, smooth, beautiful, understated, and oh so comfortable. You're exactly right when you said that Enve is listening to customers and the results have been some amazing bikes/frames. If you want one of the best bikes/frames on the market, and don't want to ride the same thing as everyone else, then Enve should be on your short list.
Great points!!!
Solid. Great review. Big fan of Enve
Thank you!
Regardless of the arguing about price or people complaining about your comparisons I absolutely love the look and apparent performance of the bikes that Enve is putting out. I find myself being more on the Mog side of the scale but all of them seem to be straight forward focused machines that I appreciate seeing and hearing about. Great review!
Edit: I’m a monochromatic nerd so that salt finish has caught my eye like nobodies business!
Thanks! Who knew it was so controversial?
I almost went salt as well, but the idea of keeping a white bike clean sounds like a lot.
@@outdoorbros_ how dare you make a comparison that isn’t universally understood, which makes it elitist and unattainable!
I agree with the notion of keeping it clean. But I’m also going to be experimenting with ceramic coating bicycles and am curious to see how much of a difference it would really make.
Looks really good. Love it.
Thanks!
Great review, not biased at all.
As always, this is a fantastic review! While I originally planned to get an Allied Echo, unforeseen circumstances arose. Luckily, the release of this bike came at the perfect time for my riding style and location. I opted for the Salt color, and I'm curious to see how you customize your Ash one!
I was torn between ash and salt- great choice!
Super interesting. Another killer review. Quick question/separate subject. I ended up going for a S Works crux. Wanting bike to do double duty (of course) on gravel and road. Running 353 zipps. Thoughts on running a 30mm or 32mm for those road days or is that too narrow for crux geometry? Thxs!
Thanks! I think 32mm is the lowest I’d go on the Crux. 35mm is probably the sweet spot for road. Anything smaller feels like riding on stilts.
you make all Bike you ride look so good.
Thank you!
great vid, I was actually considering a Red/Eagle mullet like my current alll-road bike and was curious why they said this frame was not compatible with T-type drivetrains. That is one advantage over my current ride that I would revise if I were to replace it. I will admit that my all-road is used as a gravel bike for more than half of my rides and I was hoping the Fray could serve the same role as a "light" gravel bike.
Thanks! I believe it has to do with the chain line.
I love the review of the bike. I think I may get one.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks for the video!! Have you reviewed the “Open….UP” bike yet?!?
I owned an Upper a few years ago- awesome bike!
Any thoughts on this vs the Aethos? I realize they're not direct competitors but I have an Aethos and have seen your videos about it. I like the Fray but am contemplating putting 32s on the Aethos and going for a Mog instead.
Even with tire clearance on the Aethos, I think it’ll feel a little too aggressive for much more than road. I’m sure it’s been done, I’m sure someone loves the setup, but I wouldn’t do it.
Geo and use case seems very similar to Trek Domane Gen IV- maybe a touch more agressive. Would you agree with that? Any chance of a direct ride comparision? Love the Domane ride, wish handling was a bit racier so the Fray is very interesting to me.
If I can get my hands on a Domane, I’ll compare them.
Since you ride the Specialized Tarmac SL8 how would this compare to the Enve fray? I know one is a race bike and the other endurance. Comfort, weight, responsiveness, climbing and long rides? Thinking about both bikes. Would build up with shimano Ultegra, & 3.4 wheels and 28 mm tires.
The SL8 is in line with the Melee- it’s a pure race bike; purpose-built to go fast, be light and corner on rails. Fray is more relaxed, more forgiving with a wider range of use.
Im trying to decide between the Melee and the Fray. I don't race, but I'd lile performance. I tested a Melee prior and it fit me quite well. The Fray might be just a bit too tall but would still work. How would you compare rhe handling of both? And which one would you think to have the better resale value? Thanks again!
Loving to hear the melee vs fray vs mog. I’m inbetween the fray and mog to replace my open up. I live in Utah were I do a mix of road and gravel about a 65/35 split. What would you go for?
Utah gravel is rough- I’d go MOG.
@@outdoorbros_ sweet, do you think that the mog can handle most of the road riding too? Your videos inspired me to run 40|44 with Terra speeds and want a zippy road bike. Would the mog still feel sharper than an open up? You state it’s really stiff so seems like it would be a good option
So I had a conversation with some of my friends about this bike earlier today, and they are pretty divided about this frame/bike. We all agreed that if you already own either the Melee or the Mog, adding this to your collection makes no sense.
There was a view that if you own a Mog, and tend to race on ‘champagne’ gravel, then this bike is for you. There was another view that if you own a Melee, then this bike doesn’t make sense. We sort of agreed that if you wanted to buy this frame, you’d probably sell your road and you gravel bikes and just own this with two sets of wheels.
FWIW, I own an Aethos and a Crux, and I could see myself buy this with two sets of wheels and sell everything else. I race road, cross and gravel and I think this would work in my scenario. There is a small caveat to this which is that where the rider lives, the terrain will sway the decision.
Which brings me nicely to point where I’m curious about which bike you intend to replace.
Great points. At the end of the day, so much depends on where you live and the terrain you plan to ride. If the terrain gets technical, this is unlikely to meet the need.
Great stuff, as usual. Call me interested in the Fray, now.
It’s an exceptional bike!
Very interesting review. I've been trying to place an order for a Melee but my fitter was having some trouble. The Fray sounds interesting. If it only came in a decent color. Why is it people like these modern marketing colors?
You reviewed the Melee and claimed it was a great all day bike. Did you find the Fray more of an all day endurance ride than the Melee? This is the type of ride I'm trying to optimize as I like to ride fast but don't race.
Thanks! I think they take trends from current car colors (just my assumption). The Fray feels taller and not quite as sharp as the Melee. The longer wheelbase alone gives it a little more float and forgiveness whereas the Melee is built to race.
@@outdoorbros_ regarding my question, would you see the Melee as a fast metric century and occasional full centuries kind of bike? I’m currently riding a Colnago C50 the past 12 years. Great bike but time to upgrade to newer technology
Seems like an almost ideal two wheelset bike. Enve states 38c max with 2x, which just misses the mark for me. So, how do the Reserve 40|44
40c terra speeds fit? 😁
You can run a 40mm tire w/ standard road cranks and a 2x SRAM. The Shimano FD wire may rub on the tire, but you can usually pull it out of the way with a cleverly placed zip tie.
@@jakepantone thanks Jake!
Will this be replacing your Crux? For a do-it-all bike, how does it stack up to the Crux?
It has the potential to replace it…
First of all Enve let me borrow a fray for ragbrai this year! Secondly I’m really confused on how alot of these bike brands are still pumping out high end priced road bikes in this current market. Companies are literally looking in the mirror and saying we have to really change something. We got too greedy. I just don’t get where some of these bike brands are going. We need better value for the money!!
I can’t speak to that side of the business- maybe they’ll do something mid-tier in the future.
It's pretty simple actually. The people who tend to buy high end road bikes or other expensive toys are less concerned with current market conditions than your average Joe. When the housing market collapsed and the economy tanked in '07-'08 I still saw plenty of $12,000+ road bikes with sold tags on them at one of my local bike shops in San Diego. Also, if cycling (or anything else) is their main hobby people are likely to reach a little deeper into their pockets to sustain that fix.
That said, I do think the mainstream brands are catering to a very small end of the market with all of these superbikes but I don't find them appealing. There's no way I would spend my money on a high end Specialized, Trek, Giant, or any brand like them. They all look the same and they don't stir my soul one bit. I'm going to stick with Euro brands with a storied history or USA built titanium bikes like the ones already hanging in my bike room.
The Fray is appealing but Time has opened up a factory in my backyard so I think my next build is a USA made ADH.
@outdoorbros_ curious how this feels different to the crux, sounds similar but a bit more aggressive/road oriented vs the crux am i right?
More or less, that’s correct. I’d add that it’s more stiff as well.
@@outdoorbros_ Looks super sick too with the integrated cockpit. I have the crux (partly inspired by your amazing videos), and wondering if you know of a way to get an integrated cockpit for the crux?
So close on getting a Tarmac sworks SL8, but i saw this video then i saw one at sea otter… was planning on building my SL8. If you wre to choose, fray or SL8? For all around bike. I dont gravel. Pure roady. I live in vegas, flats and climbs.
Thank you
Pure smooth roads? SL8. Mixed terrain, Fray.
The new Roubaix falls into this same kind of place-it’s more comfortable than a Tarmac, more aerodynamic and lighter than a Diverge, and clears 40c tires with room to spare. When I first checked out the geo and clearance I thought, “if they had changed the name, this would be a hot commodity as a ‘fast gravel’ bike.” And sure enough, Ian Boswell raced it at BWR and a couple of other “light” gravel events.
it will be the next vid, guaranteed
Think you chose the right colour fray 👌🏾
It was between Ash and Salt- Ash felt like the right call. Thanks!
You're right about the geometry. I think more and more ppl who log big miles feel the same way: comfort is king, and by the looks of it the Fray should deliver that. The tire clearances tho are too limiting, for me anyway, to consider swapping it out for my Crux-which btw, is still killer
Great points.
Great review. Wish I could afford one right now. My wife would kill me. Have too many bikes hahaha
I’m with you. I need to get rid of a couple bikes asap.
How conservative is the tire clearance max size? Could you squeeze in 40mm Terra speed on 25mm IW wheels with enough clearance to avoid taking the paint off when riding gravel?
The bike will clear a 40mm tire no problem. You'll just want to confirm that it doesn't contact the front derailleur if you're running one... The frame's clearance models are all around a 40mm tire. It is just that some tires (if they stretch a lot) and some front derailleurs (Shimano) may have some interference issues. Specifically we've seen tires that contact the wire. The 2x w/ 38mm tire is a very conservative recommendation. I would only say, if you really intend to ride 40mm tires all the time, the MOG is a much better option.
@@jakepantone I definitely will use 2x sram red axs 46/33 or whatever new version they release to replace current Red . I use my current gravel bike mostly in road mode with 30mm or 32mm road tires but I do occasionally (few times a year) do longer gravel events and I need 1 bike that can handle both situations. Some of those events do require 40mm tires and can have/do have mud and/or stones that get flung up so I don’t want to wind up ripping off my front derailleur.
Mog seems like it’s fairly similar to my current bike and so doesn’t improve anything for the 90% of the time I ride on road or road like conditions.
@@brianstein406What you’ve described is 100% what the Fray was built for. You are a Fray customer.
Posted photo of 40mm Terra speeds on Friday. They seem to fit without issue.
Same geometry almost exactly as the 2024 BMC Roadmachine that just got released. Any thoughts between the 2?
I saw the new road machine at Sea Otter- looks like a GREAT bike. I’ll reach out to BMC and attempt to get a demo bike.
So we are back to the Upper! Without the 650b or 1x capability but with some aero gains.
The Upper was a fantastic bike!
@@outdoorbros_ was riding my Up on Zwift as I posted that comment/watched your video 👍
The Fray looks awesome and with the RS6 Avant being the dream car it just makes me want one a bit more.
Someday! Kinda why I have an Up and an Outback, haha.
@@outdoorbros_ How does the Fray compare to the Upper? Handling, speed, etc.
How would you compare Fray to the Aethos you used to have?
Where I think the Aethos is unmatched is in how well-mannered it is on the road. It’s buttery smooth, predictable and a joy to ride. The Fray feels a little taller and longer, but it’s probably just as fast in a straight line- a wind tunnel could confirm, that’s just my assumption.
Hey Chris, how do you like the new wheels/ hubs?
I liked them a lot. Tough to isolate the experience to just the wheels/hubs, but considering it was my first time riding 3.4’s and the new hubs, I thought it was excellent.
@@outdoorbros_ supposedly they are a little more stiff and the sound definitely sounds more sharp. I am seriously thinking of upgrading my rear hub to the new one. Congrats on the new bike. I hope you get to keep it for a long term review. Cheers
Would you consider making a Karoo 2 vs Wahoo Roam video?
I don’t think I will, but the short answer would be that the climb feature of the Karoo 2 is a little better, BUT the midday visibility of the Karoo 2 is its Achilles heel. The Roam/Bolt can be read at any time of the day at any brightness.
@@outdoorbros_ thanks! How’s the battery on yours? I bought my Karoo 2 second hand and it’s not great but I don’t know how long it was used for beforehand.
fit wise this would setup incredibly close to how i have my madone SLR setup except the Fray would be slammed vs the 30mm of spacers on my madone. chain stay is 5mm longer and the head angle 1 degree slacker. super close otherwise. now i just need to win the lottery!
Sounds like a great fit!
Appreciate the detail in the review as well as your thoughts on the bike. I'm a little confused though how this would fit in your quiver. You have the Tarmac for racing/fast group rides and the Crux for gravel, but this won't be as good as either the aforementioned in their respective categories. I'm thinking most of the gravel you do must be fairly light to have this come in and the Crux leave.
Curious to hear your rational as I'm on the fence at the moment between keeping my Crux and building up a Melee for the road, or selling the Crux and picking up a Fray. Cheers
The fray is an endurance bike. Endurance geometry is what most fitters recommend for us normal people.
In theory, it could replace the crux and tarmac. I think it depends on needs from each bike.
The comparison to Audi, while apt for a premium brand like Enve, kind of cements this channel into the “for rich tech bros only” territory for me.
The rest of his content didn’t do that long ago??
While I love his content, his comparisons just make zero sense for the 99% of us hahaha. As someone fresh out of college im juggling rent & new bike parts
@@lukasparbst9655 There are plenty of affordable Taiwan built bikes as well. Suffice it to say that everyone’s interested in the Porsche or McIntosh or Hasseblad camera or Bertram Yacht reviews.
Could just be a car enthusiast thing. He’s made car comparisons in the past
Makes zero sense indeed. I’m a 42 yo cyclist I don’t give 2 sh*t about sports cars… and cars in general for that matter
How comparable do you reckon it is to Colnago C68 Allroad? Completely different heritage, but a comparable price point, tyre clearance and geometry it seems...
Excellent question? …why would someone buy a Melee Fray instead of a Colnago C68 gravel?
I can’t comment on the allroad as I haven’t ridden it. Compared to the C68 gravel? Both feel taller, similar weights, Fray feels a little more stable, C68 gravel more on edge. I think brand identity is going to be the #1 factor in that decision… that’s what half of the comments and opinions boil down to, isn’t it? Some aren’t Colnago or Enve folks and that’s totally cool. There are so many great bike brands out there all over the price spectrum.
Very curious how this compares with something like a Time ADHX
It’s faster than the ADHX.
Other than looking at specs, I’m not familiar with the ADHX. If I get my hands on one, I’ll let you know.
I bought a Factor Vista in 2017 and still ride it today. It was an unique all road bike for its time and a bit of a ugly duckling but it is a fast do it all bike with 40 mm tire clearance (56 cm) and full integration of cables. I feel that these bike companies are just now catching up with FACTOR seven years later.
I agree. Only difference is internal storage
I’ll check out the Vista. Sounds awesome!
I don’t understand why it would be UDH but not mullet compatible as MTB derailleurs (at least sram) are the ones using the UDH standard
I believe it has to do with the chain line.
Can i have that stem but the cables running outside the stem??
Yes. The stems come with what we call the "Bypass Spacer" that allows external routing from bar into the headtube.
@@jakepantone very nice. given this info, this fray is really my perfect bike then. having the cables running outside the stem allows me to swap stems if I want to use it in a "more serious" gravel (a riser stem or so... not pretty but functional) or even reduce/increase reach depending on the challenge ahead. Most of my rides out are 3-4h but if I want to go do some kind of multi-day event with some 6-7h riding, I'll prefer to have a shorter reach more confortable position. The flexibility this bike allows is something incredible. Kudos enve!!
How does this compare to the Allied Echo?
Very similar in purpose and feel. Both are great.
So the question is being that you have seen them, which color are you going for? Being a nardo gray fan I’m thinking gray
I went with Ash- it looks great!
Because it looks like an Audi
I dont even have my Melee built yet and already contemplating selling it for the Fray.
Tough call!
Mudguard mounts?
Fender mounts, yes. I don’t recall if I included that in the video.
Nice bike, but i gave up on the constant "upgrades' and carbon in general. I got a MOOTS RCS with same-ish geo and never looked back.
Amazing bike, congrats!
How'd you get this? Didn't this just get released....like today?
This dude is one of those "professional" reviewers who works directly with brands to get a peek at bikes and "reviews" (i.e. reads talking points from the press release) them as soon as they launch
I occasionally get access to products early so that I can create videos like this for the launch day. It’s rare, but I’m always appreciative when it happens.
@@dannymay4745nailed it.
best reviewer on yt
Thank you!
If they could just make a nice xc hardtail next.
That would be interesting…
Gravel racing? Mog or Fray?
Mog 100% for tire clearance
100% MOG. The Fray is a great race bike for events like BWR San Diego, or if the tire recommendation for the event is a sub 40mm tire. But I will just say, the Fray will leave you wanting if you intend to use it as a pure gravel bike.
Ritte Esprit or Enve Fray?
Different bikes for different types of riding.
RIP OB's Crux.
Crux was my guess too
Don’t jump to conclusions just yet…
@@RonBaloneit’s possible…
The Enve Fray does the same thing as a Cervelo Aspero, but for twice the price!
…for essentially the same price as an Aspero 5. So this comparison is a bit silly as the base aspero won’t come with a one piece bar and stem, full cable integration, or carbon wheels.
Even the Aspero 5 with GRX Di2 is significantly cheaper than the Enve frameset. And it's only 100grams lighter than a base Aspero.
A base Aspero with carbon road wheelset upgrade, means you have a proper all road bike with two wheelsets (this is what I ride), for less than the price of the Enve frameset alone. Cable integration is pointless unless on an actual race bike (like Melee), which also means it’s pointless for 90% of riders in the real world, especially on a bike with a high stack height such as the Fray.
@@3TZZZ Per Cervelo, Aspero 5 frameset is $5000. GRX DI2 build is $7500.
Interesting. In Australia the Aspero 5 GRX Di2 build is AUD8200 (USD5300). …either way the base Aspero is far bettter value, I doubt you’d even notice 100g weight difference. ….a direct comparo btw Aspero and Fray would be interesting.
@@3TZZZ You should see the price difference of the Giant TCR in the US vs AUS.
With bikes and dating, always ask about stack and reach.
Sage advice!
Someone's been looking into buying an Audi.
Haha, I wish! That’s always been a dream car for me, but I’m more of a Toyota daily driver guy.
For when Specialized is just not expensive enough
Im more the BMW guy than the Audi gay 😂. Greetings from Germany 😉. Thx for your vids.
Haha! I’ll compare one to BMW’s next time.
I’m still confused as to what it is
Hard to categorize, I suppose.
Awesome bike. Way out of my price range unfortunately.
Fair.
Is this where the old youtube competitive cyclist guy went? This channel?
I don’t think so…
It resonated with me, but not with my wallet 😅
Does it ever resonate with the wallet? Bikes are pricey across the board.
Wow, this is super-douchy
I don't really understand why bike companies are building this type of bike. Is it a road race bike or a gravel bike? It really doen't make any sense to me. If I want a bike with big tire clearance I would go for a gravel bike. I think the bike industry run out of ideas.
Fair point. I think there’s a market for it.
The stack in my size kills this bike for me, major sad face:(
Like you dislike it or it won’t fit you well?
@@outdoorbros_ it won’t fit me, not a fan of high front ends.
Whats the obsession with super expensive, ridiculously useless super cars???
Exactly.
It’s just a comparison. I wouldn’t get too worked up about it. I’ve done it with most bike videos over the years.
@@ForGlory1exactly?
This thing is cheeks
Cheeks?
Nope not my flavor - headtube / geo is totally of - so many out there has a better more slack geo and room for same tires. For me the Crux or Open models are still supreme and more pleasant for the eye. Sry Enve but I’m not your next customer 😂
Fair!
For that kind of money, buy a Time instead (which will cost you less). You'll get a much better frame with world class engineering & manufacturing, as opposed to a frame that popped out of an OEM factory in Xiamen.
Time doesn’t have a model with this type of endurance geometry (unless you want to go buck wild on the spacers, even then, you’re still limited).
Enve builds their frames in Ogden, Utah, USA. They source their carbon from Mitsubishi. The layup quality is superb. Enve has a 13 year track record of wind tunnel testing their wheels, handlebars, forks, and now frames. I would argue that in terms of performance engineering they are superior to Time.
@@petersouthernboy6327 I believe they build their wheels in Ogden/USA, but frames are made overseas.
I’ll have to give Time another look. It’s been years since I’ve seen one on the road.
@@petersouthernboy6327 time has been making world class frames forever, enve started yesterday. Enve does make good wheels, along with a billion other factories, and while it's carbon, it's a different job.
Time does have an endurance frame, although I haven't compared stacks.
Time is also opening a factory in the US btw, so there's that too...
a lot of money for a frame of 600 euros.ripp of
Where can I get this for 600 euros? You’ve caught my attention.
@@outdoorbros_ ali express. just another label
The all new Enve Fray. Where you Pay to be Gay 😂
This is one of the weirder comments I’ve received.
Shame Enve is a shit company. I wouldn't touch their bikes with a pole.
👎🏼👎🏼
Why?
@@outdoorbros_ I'm not a carbon lover nor dropbars for off road. Off road taller stack is better.