If the green orb was Zhaitan and black(then glowing green) was Mordremoth it works perfectly. I was thinking at first that since Zhaitan was defeated recently, shouldn't his orb have reflected that? Well when the green orb joins with the Tyrian orb in the center, that is not a representation of Mordremoth or rather Zhaitan now taking control, that was Zhaitan's orb being defeated and returning into the magical leylines of the world, rather than remaining a seperate entity known as an elder dragon.
This. To quote from recent text, "Dragons consume magic, but they do not eat it. Instead they hold within themselves like a sponge holds water." ...messed up the wording a bit, but the line holds true. If you're going to take the orbs as a sign of the order they woke up in, then Zhaitan's orb falling into the center orb really would symbolize his fall and the flood of the magic he was storing... foreshadowed by the story of the Hyleck sparring partner, if you talk to him between sparring matches in his home.
Frank Nemati Mind you, this doesn't mean that killing the elder dragons is a bad thing. In the ancient primordial times, huge lumbering beasts was the only way to deal with the magic overwhelming the physical world and breaking it up into the Mists. Things are different now; we have Bloodstones, Oboliscs, or just Asuran Mana Batteries. We have alternatives if we stop, think of the repercussions, and make preparations. The cleansing ritual on Orr is probably protecting Tyria greatly from the fallout from Zhaitan, but what will protect us from the fallout from Mordremoth?
Plot twist: The five remaining dragons all fuse together, creating the 5 Headed Dragon. The Yu-Gi-Oh theme song plays in the background as you, the player, slay it. Trahearne shows up at the end and takes all the credit.
After I played through this instance, I just had to come here to hear your perspective on things. You didn't disappoint. Love the speculation and theories. Very though-provoking video. Well done, WP!
WP, hearing you intertwine gw2 lore with gw1 and forming good speculation makes you sound like a priory scholar! :P It would be great to hear your voice as a sylvari scolar NPC if ANet gave you the chance to do so
Wooow. This just hit me. What if whatever is in the center is keeping the other 6 major powers in balance? The orb representative of Zaithan is opposite that of Mordremoth. What if by defeating Zaithan we allowed Mordremoth to gain power? This is really getting interesting.
On a side note, must add that on the left side are orbs that supposedly represent Elder Dragons with sor of nature, elemental theme: DSD for water, Mordremoth for vegetation and Primordus for fire. Orb on the right, on the other hand, do not fit in that 'just nature' theme, and most importantly they kind of oppose natural theme. Lifeless Branded and Risen, as well as Icebrood, they all are converted from living beings to servants of Dragons, willingly or not. And then, it's not all about these orbs. Kralkatorrik is said to be the dragon of winds, sandstorms and thunders. Zhaithan represents death, to be short. And finally, Jormag, representing blizzards and cold. So what we have is a concept of not only opposing themes, but rather elemets of existense that add one to another and cannot be without each other. Water and the air, firstly, could be a reference of pretty much real occurances in nature, like water cycle of evaporation and rains. Next is nature, growth and life, that is bounded by inevitable death, that prevents it from endless and chaotic growth. And last one is Fire and Ice, complete opposites, and if you dig deeper, one represents depths and heat that contains there, while other - heights, and cold air of the peeks. Damn, this is so good that I'll just repost it as an ordinary comment. :p
Mad Johnson I would say that instead of primordius being opposite jormag and kraalkatorik being opposite bubbles, the top should be opposite the bottom of the other side and vice versa (draw lines through the center orb to find the opposites). This way it would be wind opposite fire (wind can blow fire out) and ice opposite water. Could be wrong, both ways seem to work pretty well, I just think that they would make the opposing dragons be diagonally across from each other, through the center of the middle orb.
CallMeKing sorry to disappoint you, but wind and air in general makes fires only stronger. Which means that your idea is already partly false. How is ice opposites water? Can't quite understand. Though might still work if we put it other way: Primordus (fire, chaos) | Kralkatorrik (basalt [volcanic stone], structure) Bubbles (water, fluidity) | Jormag (ice, stasis) Zhaitan (death, destruction) | Mordremoth (life, creation) (that stuff with opposites from official forums, forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/livingworld/s2/Cutscene-Huge-Realization-Spoilers )
Okay, the way I interpreted this was a bit... different. I interpreted the orbs lighting up as the usual order the dragons wake in. As in... since the beginning of time. My assumption was that this represented the usual cycle of dragon awakening around Tyria. I also assumed that while the Dragons often touched Tyria and slumbered upon it, they never became part of it. Their influence didn't last for eternity. Their effects upon the land eventually fade as the magic that sustained those effects waned and was devoured.It was also my understanding that Zhaitan was awoken "early" somehow by the mage on Orr who summoned him and tried to use his power to defeat the Charr, which sank the island beneath the waves and turned all the citizens into undead and a walking blight upon the land. It was only recently when Orr rose back above the waves that Zhaitan was even "active". But, despite being active, it wasn't a part of Tyria, it was only consuming the magic of Tyria as it sat upon its "throne" in Orr. This may explain why the last two orbs are "out of order" in terms of awakening, if Zhaitan was indeed awoken early by a mage and that wasn't its natural order (which may also explain why it didn't do much more than send the occasional ship of undead to the shores around Orr instead of trying to corrupt all the land it could get access to).But, now we have Mordremoth. Mordremoth created the Pale Tree. To my knowledge, it is the first Dragon to create its own sentient race upon Tyria and create what would likely be a permanent link to Tyria itself. An aspect of it that would stay and linger long after it had returned to slumber. Something that would continue to grow and spread long after the magic was consumed. I think Scarlett brought Mordremoth permanently into Tyria as the only way to destroy the Dragons forever. I don't think her goal was to just "wake" the Dragon... oh it's pretty much guaranteed he was already awake. I think her goal was to render the dragon mortal to be killed forever instead of just put back into slumber.After all, do we have definitive proof that Zhaitan is actually dead? Oh, sure, we have proof of his defeat, but not of his death. His minions still roam across Orr and that continent itself is still as corrupted as it ever was. Everyone in the game says Zhaitan is "defeated", but nobody says "dead". My assumption was that we just put the big jerk back to sleep to keep him from consuming magic and spreading his influence. And with all that firepower we unleashed upon him, what did we manage to do? Tumble him into a tower and have it collapse upon him. Our advanced magical guns of massive destruction simply caused a tower to topple on him and did pretty much zero damage to him in the first place.If the Dragons are indeed the "Gods" of Tyria, that would mean that they are pretty much invincible. You're able to defeat them, but not to kill them. The endless cycle of Dragons waking, consuming magic, returning to slumber. They've awoken many times in history, usually destroyed the sentient races of the time during their awakening, but they don't really destroy the world itself. The lore says that they consume magic. What if magic only exists within the sentient races and the things they create? What if the Dragons only awake when these two things reach a "critical mass" upon the world?So, what if Scarlett was trying to destroy this cycle? The cycle of sentient creatures creating and using so much magic that the dragons would awaken, consume as much of the sentient races and their magical societies as possible, and then return to slumber? They cannot be killed, and there's no way magic would be outlawed in Tyria because it would be impossible to police. So, if her plan was to make the Dragons mortal... and thus able to be killed instead of merely defeated and put back into slumber... What if that's what it means when the Mordremoth orb slams into the center and becomes part of it? What if it is a plan that Mordremoth also sought to begin with, but Scarlett twisted to her own end? Mordremoth created The Pale Tree as a foothold into Tyria, a means to expand his influence even while he slumbered. A means to take over Tyria and force the other Dragons out forever? To thin out the competition and consume more magic all for himself? Maybe even eventually consuming the other Dragons as magic as well?So, what if Scarlett's ramblings about breaking the cycle and "no cycle lasts forever, something always evolves and changes" were her discovering Mordremoths' plan (which is maybe why The Pale Tree is presented prominently in the vision... as well as why it eventually zooms out to show that it is simply inside the socket of the world of Tyria) and deciding that she didn't want to be a part of that. She didn't want to be a tool... didn't like the simple answer of her existence being owed to Mordremoth and his plan to own all of Tyria. So, what if her answer was to drag Mordremoth kicking and screaming into being a mortal so that while he would have much greater power... he'd also be vulnerable to being destroyed forever?What if her antics were merely her attempt to destroy the God that would simply use her and her kind as tools? What if her plan were to mobilize everyone to destroying the threat posed to Tyria by the Dragon who had tried to plant a permanent foothold there? Crazy as she was... might she not have been a hero as well? Who knows?Long story short, I think the thing represents Mordremoth not becoming active, but becoming mortal and a part of Tyria that can be obliterated for eternity. It represents making him a huge threat, but also making him mortal.
Maybe sylvaris are supposed to be dragon minions? Ronan found a seed in a cave and whatnot, maybe those seeds are the teeth of mordremoth, the teeths creates the great trees that his minions arrive from, what makes our pale tree different is the ventaris tablet, and perhaps during it's growth the tree became corrupted(in a good way of course), by the tablet in such that they are naturally shielded from mordems control. And so upon entering the machine, scarlet unlocked that part, passed trough the shield and the dragon slowly gained control over her, twisting her. The pale tree herself maybe knows of this and does not wish to be part of the dragons control but hides this secret to protect herself and her sylvaris from the corruption?
In the cut scene, after the when we saw the Pale tree, it almost looked like the it transformed into the glowing white orb of light in Tyria. This could be suggesting that the Pale Tree was the center of magic that the Elder dragons are seeking to consume. This could also be why Scarlet was having visions of strangling the Pale Tree. Maybe she wanted this power, this magic that is contained within Tyria.
Could be! I also found it curious that the white ball of 'magic' in 'tyria' is the EXACT same size as the 'elder dragon orbs'. I doubt thats a coincidence. (This wasnt mentioned in the video)
WoodenPotatoes Maybe this could represent the need of magic for the dragons, maybe they need it, not just want it. It might almost be like their 'fuel' or food if so. If the orb 'runs' out of magic, they need to get more, and their closest place is Tyria. This could also be why the Mordemoth was next in line to collect magic, maybe because he awoke due to Scarlet, he needed extra magic 'power' to strike. Really interesting and awesome video as always!
After extensively analyzing the audio in Audacity, here's my transcript of the dialogue during the cinematic: 3:27 - Avatar of the Pale Tree: "The Pale Tree sees all." (Could not find this quotation anywhere on the GW2 Wiki. Also, I am not entirely sure if this is the Pale Tree speaking or someone else...possibly Caithe?) 3:36 - Ceara / Scarlet Briar: "I saw it!" (Presumably her first exclamation after awakening from Omadd's Machine, although this exact quote is NOT found in the short story "What Scarlet Saw".) 3:43 - Avatar of the Pale Tree: "Do not question the Dream. We must all play our parts." (This is an EXACT quote from the very end of the Sylvari personal story mission "Black Night, White Stag"; see wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Night,_White_Stag. Interestingly, however, the audio of the quote during the cinematic and the personal story mission are NOT exactly the same; there are some slight differences in the way the voice actress enunciated/inflected certain words.) Also, I'm pretty sure the ending scene with the orbs surrounding the Pale Tree is actually ArenaNet's way of telling us that Tyria is set within the Game of Thrones universe. Look familiar? cdn2.artofthetitle.com/assets/resized/sm/upload/zt/y0/vt/4f/got_astrolabe-0-1280-0-1024.jpg. (Just kidding.)
I would like to point out that when he was playing the vision in slow motion, I realized that each orb that was opposite to the other was basically a counter-balance. For example (if we are talking about dragons), Bubbles (water, flowing) was opposite to Jormag (ice, solitary). Mordremoth (life, growth) was opposite to Zhaitan (death, decay). Primordus (molten, bright/heat) was opposite to Kralkatorrik (crystal/stone, dark/cool). So perhaps what the entire orb scene is showing is that, since Zhaitan died, Mordremoth has no counter-balance/element/magic to keep him from over feeding on magic - therefore he is gaining much more power than Zhaitan had ever gained (or any other dragon currently), since he was being counterbalanced himself by Mordremoth. Maybe this is where the scene shows the effect of Zhaitan being dead.
WP videos in the mysteries part of your channel is why i love you! Please keep making more videos like these! I love hearing your view and explanation of things!! In my opinion since the map is the eternal alchemy and everything is connected I think the orbs represent the dragons, gods and the realms. Everything! I am having a lot of fun reading everyone's theories. Living story season 2 is so well done and i am pretty sure I almost fell out of my chair for season 2 episode 2 of the last scene. SO AMAZING! I am loving where this all is headed. My friend in my guild also had a theory about Taimi. Since she was in the room with the machine that made scarlet insane and there was a confirmed future boss we will fight my friend theorized that since she is so reckless and now somehow affected by the machine maybe poor little taimi will become corrupt and will be a boss we will fight! Also with her degenerative disease shes going to have to die at some point. With her gone all of tyria will be having a motive to get revenge!!!!
Every time I'm about to quit GW2, I come to your channel and another one of your videos just rekindles my love for GW Lore. Thanks for being awesome, WP! I really wish you would do some abridged recap videos for new and old players that haven't played in a while, to catch up. Like a "Story So Far" type of thing. Anyways, thanks for bringing me back! Keep it up!
Your theories about the orbs not only representing the dragons but also realms makes me hope that one day we will be able to go to all six realms (and maybe even more?) I'd personally most love to go to Melandru's/Mordremoth's/the nature realm, since I think that could look really cool.
Grenth was a god way before abbadon went batshit, Water magic got split between lyssa and dwayna. Dhuum didnt forbid necromancy, he banned rezzing, Blood, Curse and Soul Reaping magic were all a-ok (even tho they werent under the title of necromancy which Desmina kinda founded with Grenths blessing). Grenth is described as Dwaynas son by a in game character, not a object or (even better) a event, just as 99% of jotun talk, it could be a lie or misinformation. Zhaitan wasnt afraid of the artifact itself, but that its magic could be used to beat him (which was shown multiple times in the personal story to be true, you can stop dragon corruption via the mists, balthazars blessing gives you the power to destroy otherwise immortal wraiths in seconds and plow trough hordes of risen with a single swing of your sword, not to mention the powers the temple risen got). Also servants of Abbadon didnt instantly become mad, they became mad if they used the magic of the realm of torment and/or demonic powers. Abbadon is tied to dragons via magic, being retconned between GW1 and GW2 into being the only god who gave humans magic thus the one indirectly who gave/prepared the dragons food~
***** 1. i never said grenth and abbadon were connected in godhsip.i mad eit clear that grenth replaced DHUUM not abbadon. and he took over the water department when the time needed him to. lyssawas never connected to water in GW1 also. yes it was its even in the wiki. be it the magic or not zhaitan was afraid of it end of discussion there. never stated instantly, yet again. however varesh lsot more and more sanity as she saw secrets with abbadons influence, driving her mad. also his prson realm was madness suffering etc and it has the same map as the eternal alchemy. im jsut making the connection between scarlet and abbadon here. I don´t say that abbadon influenced her i say the same thing abbadno knew about drove scarlet mad. which is fact. everything is connected somehow so your point is kinda pointless. also i wa snot debating what abbadon actually didmy point of the entire post was actually to pin point down that abbadon is the knee angke point of every major lore and histoory through out the game. every major event that led to the state tyria is in right now outside of dragon inlfuence is directly influenced by him. the magic wars, the searing,orrs destruction. the corruption of shiro the betrayer. the nightfall incident in elona, his prison sahped by him with his knowledge of everything resemlbing the eternal alchemy, abbadons srhine in the PS, abbadon fractal....... he is literaly everwhere we step to. scholars might have ereased him from history but abbadons influence is still in everyaspect of guild wars.and thats my point here. we will meet abbadon again in one form antoher. beit a semi last boss or actually the last of all bosses or as the mis understood demonic hero god.
MikePhantom The point was, grenth didnt take over water, it were dwayna and lyssa. Either way your English is on the level of a toddler thus i cant be bothered with you anymore, such a person cannot make statements about something written and said in a language they themselves cant use properly.
MikePhantom I'm pretty sure you have good ideas but please check you're spelling before posting. It really makes it hard for anyone to listen to you and I cringe a bit every time I read over one of your typos.
As someone who played through this episode after finishing Path of Fire and Heart of Thorns, it makes a lot more sense to say "Zitan's orb crashed into Tyria because his magic was released into the ley lines." We see hybrid dragon minions in the living world season 3 maps, particularly in the Ring of Fire maps. What we now know about our dragon friends is, just like the gods, if there is no one to absorb their magic, their "sphere" of power, it is distributed throughout the rest of the world and infects the other dragons. But it is also fascinating to hear your theories and weigh them as someone who had not at this time seen what we have seen, and how accurate you were predicting the story two to four years in advance.
this patch gave me chills, I really loved GW1 because of the well-made lore and good story, and it looks like GW2 is FINALLY making work of their stories, and it's amazing! I can't wait for more!
wonderful video. It's been a while since you've been able to do one of these and I am happy they are back and that the game is able to provide this for you and for the community. It's amazing. My own speculation is that it was Z's orb that hit the center and symbolic of his death, of us killing him and now the cycle is messed up. Some of your sound more plausible though.
^^ This is my favorite theory. This video and the comments made me also come to love the thought of all Zhatian's magic being released when he died, thus super-charging the ley lines, and when those ley lines were fed directly to Mordy, it made him super powerful! ...The dragon growl at the end representing Zhaitan's rebirth, as needed to maintain balance, would just be icing on the cake. That or Z's power got pumped into Tequatl, making him more powerful, and eventually he will become the new Zhaitan!
***** If you look on one of WP's earlier videos (like from 1-2 years ago) you can find my theory on Zhaitan Self-Rezzing. But you don't need to. I am but a lowly commenter on UA-cam.
I know this is a very late comment but I do have a question. you kept talking about dragons taking control. but what if the orb crashing into the center actually represents the death of a dragon and the system they're a part of starting to collapse?
My thought is the orbs are the dragons in order of waking up so flip your Mordremoth and Zhaitan orbs. From there, Zhaitans orb crashes into the center and all the magic built up within it has then been released, symbolizing the death of an elder dragon. Thus, in theory, we're seeing Zhaitan's power dispersed and consumed by the remaining Elder Dragons.
I'm confused, but I really like it. Guild Wars 1 had a lot of these little things that made you want to play more and find out about them, so I'm glad GW2 is now doing something similar. Really looking forward to the next part of the story.
I Love how you can dive into all the known lore and theories as well as speculations and come up with such a compelling piece of work WP. Bravo! I don't understand it all, I don't even understand everything you said in this one video, but hell of a job! :)
Looked for ages to find this video. After playing living world season 2 and hearing the Npcs talk about this wanted to find out what they meant, you videos have and always are amazing plus loving the stream!
I actually thought about this yesterday.. And here's my theory. So i was checking out my bank and found a Spinal Blade Pack Blueprint signed by Scarlet saying to Caith that soon she'd see that Tyria needed her, but why.. In the Eternal Alch. Cutscene everyone noticed that the orbs represent the elder dragons, and that at the end, Zhaitan's gets pulules into the big one. Elder dragons feed on magic in order to keep Tyria balanced so the magic energy wont overload. After doing so, they go back to sleep so Tyria produc. more magic for the next time they wake up. So Elder dragons wouldnt be 'bad' they do cause destruction but they are needed to balance the world. Us as the PC killed Zhaitan, this way affecting all of Tyria, ence the final part of the cutscene. Now where does Scarlet comes in? Do keep in mind that she was the 1st to see the Eternal Alchemy, what if she noticed that since Zhaitan had been killed, it would affec Tyria's balancing process. So what she did was, since one Elder dragon was missing, she replaced it by awakening Mordremoth. That's why she claims Tyria needing her, for she was actually trying to save us all :b Sorry for the big ass story but it makes sense >.
Dragon was missing, Scarlet "replaced" it with another one. By awakening Mordremoth. This ofc if the green orb was Zhaitan's, which would also add up to the chronological periods of their awakening :o
25:41 if you pause it here, there is most definitely a tree like figure made out of the blue lines. The bottom symbolises the roots, and the top looks like leaves. I would strongly assume this is the Pale Tree. And then, it's as if the whole world turns sideways/upside-down. This leads me onto 28:26, which is really quite interesting. If we assume that the order from Balthazar onwards clockwise goes; Balthazar > Grenth > Lyssa > Kormir > Dwayna > Melandru; which is very plausible, what does this mean? Well, this is the order of the god statues/districts in Divinity's Reach, which makes the desire for Queen Jennah's Royal Locket even more suspicious. It also adds up as to why Scarlet was trying to "capture" Queen Jennah in Season 1. By the way, we are following Scarlet's trail? Oh wait, that Green thing smashing into the middle of this could be a direct attack on the Heart/Locket of Divinity's Reach and/or Divinity's Reach itself. I also highly believe this is leading towards the White Mantle, because in GW1, the White Mantle searched the Maguuma for the Bloodstone? (I'm not the shabbiest on my lore). Is this Mordemoth's revenge? I would love for you to theory craft this further WP because i feel this is very plausible and ties in very well with the Entanglement update. TL:DR; Mordemoth is getting revenge for the White Mantle entering Maguuma in GW1, by invading/destroying Divinity's Reach.
Great episode. I'd go as far as to say it was better than the first one. Got dem feels and dat nice cutscene too. If in the aftermath of the end of this episode we don't get a sort of an acid trippy instance where we as the player go a wee bit mad just to sort of empathise us with Scarlet, then it's been a bit of a plot holey waste. I mean, do we just go through the whole thingy without much consequence? I want to go mad in Gw2, but just temporarily xD.
I don't know if the two options at the end will actually make a difference, but I chose "I.. I have to go." as if there is more you saw that you aren't telling everyone, something is bothering you, affecting you and creates some sort of distance that has room for that sort of possibility. The other option just seemed too responsible and I really want to see some sort of conflict within the group. As WP said before everything is cartoony when it is simply a state of something goes wrong --> band together and fix it. The events with Omadd's machine open up a lot of possibilities and mystery which is just fantastic.
I really hope the dev's see this video. The stories you have described here would be so exciting to play through in game. So much potential for plot twists! I'm really hoping for the double bluff and Zhaitan comes back. It would also redeem that awful personal story ending they had.
My view of the god to Dragon conversions and the design: Balthazar ->Primordus; fire, destruction (War, Destroyers) Melandru -> Mordremoth: The natural world plants Grenth -> Zhaitan: Themes of death Dwayna -> Jormag: Air, or frig air in the case of Jormag Lyssa -> Kralkatorrik: Beauty, Crystals, lots 'o purple Kormir -> Bubbles: Abbadon was the god of water, and secrets, the deep sea is both secretive and watery (there may be some purpose to calling him the DEEP sea dragon, and not just the sea dragon. Perhaps the design does not specifically have to do with the Dragons/Gods/Etc, but rather the Dragons/Gods/ all of existence is affected by the design- six facets to bring balance to the central hub. Within each reality, this theme holds constant, which is why the realm of torment holds a similar design. Or, if your concept of each sphere representing a plane of existence (fissure of woe, underworld, etc), then perhaps the entire design is somewhat like a fractal in nature- when you soon into one of the spheres, you find its layout matches the pattern already established (the reality and entirety of the purple orb is similar in structure to the reality of Tyria). I believe recent lore states that there are multiple realities of Tyria connected by the mists, so maybe this all fuses into yet another system that is similar in design. Just crazy theories.
If Zhaitan is the dark green orb, which does make more sense with the way they light up, then perhaps that orb smashing into the middle is showing his death? Like, perhaps that is showing him being removed from the cycle and all his held magic exploding out of him, essentially flooding the sort of sphere of magic in the world/universe.
WP, if you equate the gods and the dragons - here's something for you to ponder: It was Abaddon who gave magic to the Tyrian races, and he resisted the other gods when they wanted to take that magic back, no? Abbadon got replaced by Kormir in 1075. At most a few years later, the dragons begin to wake up and consume magic. Coincidence? It can't be, not at the timescales involved. Nightfall may have upset the balance of things at a much deeper level than we thought. Kormir, as a goddess of order, may very well be OK with restoring "the natural order" whatever that may be. [and of course gods may not have much choice, any more than a caterpillar has a choice of morphing into a butterfly.] Also, Abaddon was associated with Orr, where Zhaitan made his base. Finally, do consider Dhuum. I think not much has been done with him, right, but also he isn't dead yet, is he? What if he managed to ursurp Kormir in the wake of Nightfall? He's a god of death, and a nasty one, so he'd be a REALLY good match for Zhaitan, bringing that blackness and death element in that seems to be lacking from Kormir. I am sure this has all been pointed out by others, I don't follow the lore discussions much; I apologize for any redundancy.
If you read the summary of the latest episode Arenanet clearly state that the orbs represent the elder dragons, "-one that included the Pale Tree and a handfull of mysterious orbs representing Elder Dragons". So in regards of the order in which they light up, I think the cinematics team just messed it up. =)
WP, I think you're on the right track with the orbs being Elder Dragons, but I think you might not be thinking of one possible outcome. I was unsure of the time that the dragons woke up until listening to your explaination just now, which then further made me think that something I thought up last night is correct. So basically, the orbs are the Elder Dragons. Top Left - bubbles, Top Right - Kralkatorrik, Bottom Left - Primordus, Bottom Right - Jormag. I think most everyone can agree on those points being what they are. But as for Mordremoth and Zhaitan's position, I believe they are on the Right and Left respectively. I've got some reasoning behind this theory - as well as a reason it entered the center orb. As you described the awakening of the Elder Dragons, it made more sense that this was the case - that it was Zhaitan in the Left-Center orb. All the Elder Dragons woke up, and proceeded to do as they wished in the world/followed their cycle of consume magic and sleep - until we, the player, intervened and destroyed the cycle.. By killing Zhaitan. I want to add onto that before continuing. The image Scarlet drew and the vision the Eternal Alchemy showed us - there's no way at all that it just happens to look like the Realm of Torment. No way. They've been putting too much stuff into the game that supports the idea of either re-entering the Realm of Torment to take care of something evil over there or my conclusion at the end of this. My Theory is that The Eternal Alchemy has shown us what we needed to see - A growing threat; Us. Basically, when we killed the Elder Dragon Zhaitan, we effectively destroyed the cycle. Some say that we haven't had any proof of his death, of which to that I say 'look at this cutscene'. Originally I thought the orb that smashed into the center orb was Mordremoth becoming active, but then I thought, we killed Zhaitan.. What if that was the Zhaitan was the first key to unlocking something? Perhaps even a challenge to test our mettle as a collective force before something BIG happens? What if the Elder Dragons are actually wardens or seals to a portal that, if removed from the equation, opens up to allow all the bad things we've taken care of in the past back into Tyria? That would include Shiro, the Lich Lord, The Elder Dragons(possibly, if they were sent to the Realm of Torment), The return of Scarlet Briar and Zephyrite Aerin, and anyone and anything else that we've foiled plans for. TL;DR: So, In theory, with the information you've presented in this, I further conclude that its possible that the orb's are the dragons, and their(the orbs) activation order is their order of being woke up. The one that smashed into Tyria's Orb is Zhaitan and the first key to unlocking a portal somewhere in Tyria - a portal connected to the Realm of Torment. Also; we, the people of Tyria, are unknowingly opening this portal and are, quite literally, going to have hell to pay for our actions. The vision the Eternal Alchemy showed us was a warning, but we, the player, are unsure of this at this time. This is what I've come to. I've had some people on tumblr agree with it, but no one's come right out and debunked it in any way yet. Honestly, WP, I wanna hear your opinion on this. :D ~Floyd Hunter; TheRavingNecromancer.tumblr.com
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WP again proves to be the best Guild Wars 2 UA-cam content producer. Thanks for this. :-)
As you can see at the end of the cutscene, when Mordremoth's orb hits the middle sphere, the outer ring of the sphere begins to glow green. So each ring, which protects the universe/tyria is an elder dragon. The human gods know this and brought humans to earth to fight them and left before the dragons awake again. Also note that each "dragon" got 2 rings for themselves which could represent their champions (like glinth was).
1- i actually quite like your realm theory, though i'm not sure how well it works with the gods' realms. it reminded me of the lore behind WvW, which says different "shards" of tyria are fighting each other for resources in order to fuel their fight against the dragons. 2- i'm surprised you didn't mention the eye at the end. the whole "something stared back at scarlet" thing was a big deal, so when mordremoth's orb engulfs everything, it looks like an eye staring back at you. apparently i'm the only one that noticed that, but it's the only way "i saw a dragon" fits the cutscene. 3- those extra circles look like some photoshop brushes i have lol.
Saw this, wanted to share a wall of text of thoughts: It looks like the leylines activating the orbs are roots of the pale tree. Like it was soaking up (maybe) or producing magic to give it to them. The lines that are drawn between the orbs might express some equilibrium of energies. I think this is like a calendar showing how it shouldve worked, somehow. Only interpreting the tree and the leylines or better roots, it shows, that the orbs are pushed out of rest with more force, that wouldve been needed to activate them. They absorb some of the magic produced by the tree flowing throw the leylines into the circles (they seem to be accumulations of magic/energy), while excessive energy flows, as its shown in the circulization around the tree, back into the trees crown. The energy flowing seems to have a pulse rate. As if it was a living organism, thats pulsing blood throw its veins. Therefor magic, as energy in the real world, seems to be retained. It is then shown that those potentials are rather spheric than bows, they have two components, one that fluctuates around and one that is static or at least appears static. It appears static, because we are moving down. We are heading to the core of the leylines. Therefor it is not standing still, it is just moving with us, so downwards. Its the magic that flows back down from the top of the tree. I think the outer fluctuation shows some kind of pulse for the orb activation. So at this pulse rate there is that amount of magic fluctuating from bottom to top, that means also from top to bottom, therefor fluctuates throw the orbs. They get activated after the circle is finished. But what is the circle? The circle is determined by the fluctuation rate of magic. The orbs have different activation times, therefor they need to be different in some sort of thing. At first the little rings need to be activated, they need to be filled with magic to make a pass for the big leyline leading to every orb. You can see that, because after the orbs are release, magic still fluctuates through the little rings. Its like tearing a string until it has enough potential energy to break free. Keeping this in mind aswell as the magic is flowing clockwise, leads to the different activation times. Ok, enough interpretation now. Let me give you a wild guess: The green orb was released earliert than Scarlett poked its leyline. My bet would be placed on the following: the orbs represent an equilibrium of magic forces. If one gets released it starts a chain reaction, causing overflown magic to flow back into the crown of the tree and also filling the outer ring of the orb with magic, leaving to a release of the next more powerfilled orb. After their release, it is more likely for those forces, that are now out of balance, to suppress the others by taking more magic for its own force. Here comes Scarlett and pokes the leyline of the green orb. The green orb has a dragon connected to it. Its purpose is to balance the green force of nature by consuming the magic the green orb wants to suck out of the equilibrium within the tree. Therefor dragons are "destruction" to the tree and magic, while beeing some sort of balancing crew for the orbs. The nature of dragons to release their stored magic might be the cause for the difference between the nightmare court and the normal sylvari. The normal sylvari try to protect the tree based on the lies told by the "dream" while the nightmare court actually tryes to gather magic and got an idea of what the dragons are actually doing. That would mean, the player is not really helping the world of tyria to survive, but only helping the races of tyria to survive while their magic is in a chaotic state. At this point we may aswell close the circle to Abbaddon, but thats enough wall of text about wild theories for today :) Thanks for reading, greets, love your videos - lovely stories most people do not even try to understand, perfectly presented and weaved into the whole story line! Keep the good work!
Maybe. Dragons are like great cosmic forces of Tyria. And they make everything in harmony. Now that we killed Zhaitan(dark green orb) all system goes wild and breaks. So Zhaitan is no more and his orb crashes into Tyria. And maybe the crash is making Tyria weaker and with each dragon we kill others become more potent and powerful. So much room for speculation :) And thank you WoodenP for your amazing insights.
I believe that since Zhaitan was (somewhat) defeated, his awakening cycle reset, he is at the end again until he can slowly gain enough magic again. I figure the Dragons still feed even though they are sleeping, just at a much slower rate. Great work WP, love every video!
If the centre represents tyria's magic and the orbs are representing dragon's magic then yes it could be zhaitan is the green orb that falls in the centre because his magic got released in the world. It doesn't show the central orb dissappear so it could work like that
from the Lyssa GW2 wiki page: At some point the gods became aware of the existence of the hibernating Elder Dragons, who were tied to the magical balance of Tyria, and learned their names and "spheres of influence". This information was documented in what would come to be known as the Scroll of the Five True Gods.
I'm not a Guildwars lore buff, but Im very interested in the lore and I'm 100% confident, that I can answer the question at 20:00: We already learned that the Elder Dragons ARE part of nature and in this cutscene, we learn that they are even more, they are an INTEGRAL part of the universe. We already know that "now" (ingame during the events of GW2) isn't the first time the Elder Dragons wake up - in fact, the Elder Dragons woke up at least 2 times before (probably more often, but the documentation is lost). I'm 100% sure that what we're supposed to learn is that the Elder Dragons are in a perpetual cycle of sleeping -> waking up -> trying to consume all magic -> getting defeated -> falling asleep again. They are never TRUELY "killed because they are forces, aspects of nature/the universe that swell and subside like the tides. Zhaitan was probably just the most recent "version"/aspect of the Elder Dragon of "Undeath" (or how you want to title him) - and it will either form a new body and re-awake as Zhaitan one day, or it will just re-awake as a new "version" with a new name, still being the "Aspect"/Elder Dragon of "Undeath".
Amazing video WP! Really, because of you this game is much more enjoyable! Next video: Plot Twist! Scarlet was a force for good, everything she made was to help us in the long run!
Same as many others I think the 4th green orb is Zhaitan and not Mordremoth (Necromancer skills are also green so in general if this theory is right, the orbs activating process shows the dragons awakenings perfectly). What we can be looking at is either zhaitans influence (even if Mordremoth is awakening and there are some of his minions causing havoc, there are still WAY MORE risens in the world of tyria).or maybe Zhaitans power returning to the Tyrian core. And since Mordremoth is having such a fun time absorbing the magic directly from the lay lines, he's absorbing Zhaitans powers as well. Which, if you look at the new Mordrem Wolf for example, is affecting his own corruption. In the first episode, his minions were just "overgrown" - they looked more thorny but they kept their original appearance. If you check the new Mordrem Wolf, you can clearly see his skull. Eternal Alchemy can refer to an endless cycle of magic. Zhaitan's remaining power had to go somewhere and it's still present in the world of Tyria (otherwise the risens would be gone).
Try this on: The falling green orb does represent Zhaitan/Kormir(Abaddon). If gods and dragons are facets of the same essential thing then perhaps the same governing principles apply. When Abaddon is defeated Kormir takes its place as god facet of that particular element. When Zhaitan is defeated something/someone needs to fill the dragon facet vacuum (Trahearne perhaps). And what happens if a Sylvari, linked as they are to the Pale Tree, assumes either a god or dragon aspect? Perhaps the Zhaitan orb isn't falling into Tyria but being pulled in by the Pale Tree for whatever purpose. What if what Scarlet saw was the intention of the Pale Tree to do the same with Caithe and Faolain, grooming them to assume an elemental aspect and therefore bind said aspect to the Pale Tree? Anyways just wheels spinning...
On a side note, must add that on the left side are orbs that supposedly represent Elder Dragons with sort of nature, elemental theme: DSD for water, Mordremoth for vegetation and Primordus for fire. Orb on the right, on the other hand, do not fit in that 'just nature' theme, and most importantly they kind of oppose natural theme. Lifeless Branded and Risen, as well as Icebrood, they all are converted from living beings to servants of Dragons, willingly or not. And yet there is something else about these orbs. Kralkatorrik is said to be the dragon of winds, sandstorms and thunders. Zhaithan represents death, to be short. And finally, Jormag, representing blizzards and cold. So what we have is a concept of not only opposing themes, but rather elemets of existense that add one to another and cannot be without each other. Water and the air, firstly, could be a reference of pretty much real occurances in nature, like water cycle of evaporation and rains. Next is nature, growth and life, that is bounded by inevitable death, that prevents it from endless and chaotic growth. And last one is Fire and Ice, complete opposites, and if you dig deeper, one represents depths and heat that contains there, while other - heights, and cold air of the peeks.
magicalmike had a realy good question in his video. where do the npc´s know the name from the dragon Mordremoth from? Well we as players can see the names of enemys and see blogposts and all that stuff....but did an Mordrem walked up to Kasmere and sayes: "hey, i am a servant of Mordramoth!" i doubt that ;-)
I personally like the idea that the middle is actually representative of another dragon. This dragon may have had it's magic split up somehow manifesting other dragons. When Zhaitan died, his magic was absorbed by this dragon. There could be other things along the line of the ley lines coming from the splitting up of magic so naturally the magic from Zhaitan would return back to the ley lines. Also, around the ley line magic stream in high tops you can see what appears to be bones circling them. Could be remnants of something more power.
I believe the theory on the dragons being "avatars" of the gods created to reduce the magic that had been accidentally given to the world via Abaddon, and restore it to the gods is awesome, it has always been my theory as well. And maybe thats the reason why the gods are in silence is because their avatars are doing their work for them.
With the Zhaitan confusion - what if the orb crushing into the center (being Zhaitan) symbolizes the DEATH of that Dragon and the collapse of its magic that now needs to be absorbed quickly by the other Dragons?
I really like this theory that the orbs are spheres/realms of magic and the dragons are conduits to them. That fits with how the six can both be alien to Tyria and connected to the dragons somehow. It's been shown in the games and speculated by various characters that the six aren't divine, but merely what happens to a creature when it consumes so much magical power. After all, that's literally what made Kormir into a "god." I think when the six entered Tyria "from beyond the mists," they weren't gods, they were just normal humans, probably rulers of whatever world they came from. And I think they came to Tyria because they found a way to tap into those realms of magic and steal power from them.
I have a few questions after thinking about all of this for a while. (1) The centaurs all seem to have earthy and nature themed magic powers. Some of them appear to have names that are similar in style to "Mordremoth". The ones here in Maguuma definitely appear to have some kind of religion or mysticism. They've developed similar beliefs to Ventari despite not seeming to know about him. The more hostile centaurs have direct connections to both of the targets of Mordremoth's stronghold attacks. In the Concordia instance you can connect that the centaur alliance has a real problem at present with the ruler of Kryta. In the Fort Salma instance it is easy to see that this area is hotly contested by centaur forces. This all gets me wondering what exactly the connections are between centaurs and Tyria's nature. Is there any more lore on their religious beliefs? (2) If you're going to bring in a discussion of the gods connecting to dragons I have wondered for a while about something. Grenth presides over the Underworld and in Godlost swamp we have this event where the Shadow Behemoth is opening portals to the Underworld. Two of the three areas where SB's meta begins to open portals - which are then closed before SB will appear - have oakhearts and centaurs living there. The other area has a monastery which is challenged for control of this area by centaurs. So here you have trees, centaurs, and the human gods all put together in one thing. The wine that is brewed at the monastery also has a funny connection here. It seems like a throwaway comic event but great emphasis is placed on the sacred nature of the wine if you take the dialogues seriously. A prayer is even said over the wine which invokes the gods. Both preventing the theft of the wine/recovering it and guarding it during transport are part of the meta leading up to the Shadow Behemoth event. All of this makes me wonder exactly what the Shadow Behemoth represents. It looks a lot like a dragon but obviously is the same type of creature as the shades. Is there any lore to directly explain these connections and what the Shadow Behemoth is? (3) In Lornar's Pass, presuming that the Underworld can be related via the line of thoughts so far, there are two interesting locations very close to each other and one more very interesting location not too far away. The first is Grenth's Gate. The second is The Dracon Steles. Finally there is the area involving all of the steam creatures. Eventually this zone, on top of having all of these things together, would be host to one of Scarlet's bigger plots and also a room where she lived and worked. Lornar's Pass also connects strongly with the dwarves and represents a large connection with the dragons via this. My question here is related to The Dracon Steles. Since all of this stuff ends up here together and this structure is one of the most intriguing things I've encountered simply exploring around the game then I would love to know the lore concerning The Dracon Steles. (4) The Mists... Scarlet Briar's Toxic Alliance, specifically this, appeared in Eternal Battlegrounds and the Borderlands. Of course all sorts of things do appear in these maps but... this seems pretty noteworthy to me. I think a lot of the reaction to this was limited to whether it was simply a nice twist to the content on those maps for a while but it really seems to stand out the longer you think about it. The Mists themselves are something all of the citizens of Tyria are actively being called on to defend. It is said this is against invaders but I know of at least one effort by dragon minions to get into the Mists which occurs in the Norn personal story. If the Mists need defending and at least Jormag has tried to get in there from the dragons and Scarlet managed to put a presence there somehow then how do the Mists factor into the bigger picture? (5) This brings up some very nice questions about the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal helping to reveal part of Scarlet's story. First, you have to presume that Arenanet were being honest in letting us help determine which new fractal we would get. Then you also have to think they did intend to progress some overall plot no matter which fractal we indirectly selected. Which means Scarlet might have also intersected with the Abaddon Fractal somehow. What would this connection be? Might it intersect with how magic is distributed since Abaddon is notoriously connected to this? Nevertheless, we did get some interesting connections from the Thaumanova Reactor and saw that they discovered ley lines and moved their research of "chaos energy" to the Thaumacore Inquiry Center in duh-duh-duh Toxal Bog. There you will find Thaumacore Energy Source as a skill challenge and "The entire Inquest facility is drawing power from the miasmic substance. Its nebulous form is unlike standard generators, and its supercharged particles are twice as potent." as accompanying text for the energy you're allowed to commune with. Then, what I find interesting is that Scarlet corrects the Inquest and says this is "dragon energy". Then you get this, "I don't know how to say this, but the energies in that facility are...becoming something. It's an anomaly I can't explain." and if you follow the comments this means that "dragon energy" is becoming "something". Which brings us to the Thaumanova Anomaly and something I remembered after seeing the vision in Omadd's machine. Keep in mind that this is a bit of a stretch but: wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Cosmic_Instability.png ??? This is one of the abilities which the Anomaly has. It's called Cosmic Instability and, with a little imagination, looks suggestively like it would correspond to the six orbs and a central energy of some kind. Soooooo... question five is about communing with places of power. Assuming the PC has 100% world completion they will have communed with this place of power and thereby with at least this one instance of "dragon energy". This dragon energy becomes the Thaumanova Anomaly somehow and we have apparently communed with that same energy. Additionally, I now have in my home instance a Krait Obelisk Shard which I have communed with and completed an achievement that had me commune with a whole lot more of them. An achievement that I completed during a part of Scarlet's story when she had recruited two factions to become the Toxic Alliance. Now, in that same zone, Mordremoth attacks Fort Salma and Belinda has some interesting dialogue suggesting the reason why he would be attacking that location. So what exactly are players doing when they commune with these places of power? (6) I've heard from the beginning that dragons consume energy. This is frequently mentioned from the perspective of season 1 characters. I also watched and interfered with the collection of magic munchies apparently being brought to Zhaitan via the personal story. Scarlet is being touted as being a lot smarter than most and her studies are turning out to be major breakthroughs. She then says that there is such a thing as "dragon energy". Well, Mordremoth appears to be tapping into the ley lines directly. If the ley lines are dragon energy then you have an odd geometric question. The lines extend out far beyond the dragon. If they are coming from him then where is he sending energy? If they are going toward him from something else then is Scarlet wrong about dragon energy? I know you saw some interesting presentations of the ley lines in map form. They seem to be deriving from or going toward dragons. This goes against the idea that Mordremoth becomes active and goes to a ley line to start tapping into the waypoint system. It looks like he would already be conveniently located to just do this. Then there are Taimi's comments suggesting that Mordremoth is literally personally traveling via the waypoint system. This makes more sense if you interpret it as Mordremoth is traveling via the ley lines and the waypoints are just coincidentally located along them. It also makes more sense with Taimi's dialogue. However, Taimi is getting a lot of her info from Scarlet and thus you come back to Scarlet's interpretation either being correct and then the ley lines are a giant network of dragon energy across Tyria or she is wrong and this would be an instance of the dragons feeding off of something like Tyria's magical energy. Then let's stop for a moment because this is the usual explanation and Tyria is infused with magic accordingly but magic and "dragon energy" are often used interchangeably and the usual explanation also involves dragons balancing out magic in their cycle of waking and sleeping. So if dragons are consuming magic and draining it from Tyria but magic is also dragon energy and it leaves the dragons as well and is distributed into Tyria then... while the dragons have a lot of the magic they remain asleep... Waaaaaaiiitttt... Okay, what is taking magic from the dragons? The human gods did something like this once but they "left the world". The seers tried to keep magic from the dragons? So maybe the bloodstones have some connection? Jeff Grubb mentioned they might influence future stories once upon a time. The bloodstone inscriptions are also evocative of the orb vision visually: wiki.guildwars.com/images/3/3e/Bloodstone_Inscription.png Although the pattern appears rotated. You could also list the Source under the Cathedral of Verdance as a way that we know magic can act against dragon corruption. This was a type of magical distribution. All of these things actually have a lot of interesting connections. There's the tie-in with the Krytan royal family and Maguuma as a location for the bloodstones. There's the tie-in for LA with the seers, the Krytan royal family, Scarlet's recent activities, a mirroring back to Salma retaking the city, thus a tie-in to Fort Salma with Salma's name, Ellen Kiel might be "E" and just happens to have a similar appearance to Salma (let the conspiracy theories fly on both of those), the White Mantle and the Shining Blade still factor in with special focus on the White Mantle doing some weird things right next to Toxal Bog presently, Melandru maybe has something to do with Mordremoth... it starts to kind of just go on like this. Finally we get to the main thing that obviously was the catalyst for so much of the rest. From the wiki, "One of these was the Central Transfer Chamber which housed the original network of asura gates and was built over the hibernating Elder Dragon Primordus. The network was powered by magic seeping out of Primordus, whom the asura mistook for a statue while it slept." and "In 1078 AE, Primordus's dragon champion, The Great Destroyer stirred from beneath one of the asura's citadels and *used the gate network* to send swarms of destroyers throughout the Depths." AND "Now, few asura held any interest in returning to the depths. Instead, the asura have extended their network of gates, powered by different means, and waypoints across Tyria over the years..." So is it reasonable to ask whether the Asura have accidentally thrown a wrench into the cogs of the Eternal Alchemy machine and brought the dragons crashing down not only on their own heads but everyone else's as well? I'd also love to know just how old the Asuran race is. Sorry for so much at once!
You said that it wouldn't make sense if it was the Zhaitan orb that took over tyria, but last year we got an update where Tequatl the sunless grew in strength, and I do believe that somewhere, either on a livestream or a blog post, I heard/saw a dev say there was reason for why Tequatl gained this new. This could make sense if we did not kill Zhaitan, and he is somehow recovering for his revenge in the future, and the reason why we currently have to play with Mordremoth, is that Scarlet just woke him. Another thing is that there still is an undiscovered point of interest in Arah, which could be where Zhaitan is recovering. I know some of this may be far fetched, but I do believe even if you can destroy this in a second, that it might be worth mentioning
I have a theory about what the white glow in the center (tyria) is: Each orb seems to represent an element, including Zhaitan, who represents darkness and death. Perhaps Tyria is the orb of light and life, and the pale tree is either actually an elder dragon, or Tyria is unique in that it is the only world with an "ambassador" who is not a dragon. Perhaps the world of life and light has been in control for a very long time, and Scarlet wanted to finally make a change in order to evolve the universe.
Thanks for the videos. Well thought out theories. I've had the theory about gods (which came from the mists? Another world?) wrestling for power with dragons, which are native. Moreover, gods and dragons have distinctly similar domains - perhaps these are nodes through which magic flows that allow it to be harvested or directed. On the note of the Pale Tree - I think the overlap with Mordremoth's domain is too sweet to ignore. Also, when all the races are discussing whether to attack Mordremoth and wavering, Mordremoth's minions attack and sway everyone towards war. Convenient? Wild theory but what if the Pale Tree -is- Mordremoth. Why would she want the other races to attack her? Well, perhaps she wants them united so that they can be used against another dragon later. There is nothing of importance in the Maguuma Jungle and it's just an excuse to get them organized.
@WoodenPotatoes isn't it possible that Kormir is the black and white because she took the spot of Abbadon God of Secret and became the Godess of Truth (AKA black background with white that has been added "resenly") Personally believe in the realm theory but still interesting prospect.
a few other ideas 1: 18:00 or so, if mordremoth could wake up 4th, yet us not know about it until now, then there is nothing saying that kraokatoric didn't wake up before zhaitan, but just dozed about for a while first while zhiatan woke up and got right to business. this would probably work like primordis did in gw1. hes not really awake, but hes waking up. 2: what if the order is reversed, zhaitan does wake up, but he dies, and that's the crash. he became part of tyria like the orb did. 3: what if the dragons are the source of the "expanding" volume of magic in tryia. what if the dragons eat magic up, then as they slumber it leaks out of them into the leylines, we tyrian races tap into it, so the dragons wake up to reclaim it, then slumber again. or maybe the they take it to their own realms idea works. 4: what about the speed at which the orbs move. the purple orb lights up before the black one, but the black one takes off while the purple one does not. could this be the activity level.
In Dry Top, you can find a scrap of paper probably written by the Master of Peace that tells us that dragons do not destroy magic, but save it up within themselves. This would go against the idea that the Elder Dragons transfer the magical energy to another realm. Unlike the gods, dragons also don't seem to have a strong connection to the mists. During their long sleep, they still physically stayed in the material world.
In line with the idea that the Gods and the Elder Dragons are facets of the same basic elemental (in a matter of speaking) forces, what if the Dragons consume the magic of Tyria for whatever purpose, perhaps just to preserve balance, and the Gods then come each time to heal the world (I remember you saying something about how the Gods had come to Tyria in the wake of an ancient threat now vanished in one of the GW1 story summary videos). Each time the Gods (and possibly Dragons) continue to exist in these alternative realms of existence and consistently change their nature and associated attributes (just how the element of water was shuffled over to Lyssa after Kormir usurped Abbadon). That might explain how the Dragons and Gods once lined up, but because of certain events, such as Kormir's ascension, these have been thrown out of balance which accelerated the return on the Elder Dragons. Just a thought, probably way too complicated and flawed but...
Someone has probably pointed this out to you by now but there is a direct statement in the comments on the LS2 Entanglement description in the Story Journal after you've finished the episode which says "I unwittingly entered the device and experienced my own cosmic vision - one that included the Pale Tree and a handful of mysterious orbs representing Elder Dragons". Of course this is the PC's own interpretation of their vision and nothing says this perspective is 100% accurate but the comments are there from Arenanet giving a seemingly solid foundation to this idea that the orbs are dragons. I find it interesting that the character then goes on to say that they must speak with the Pale Tree about this. There is a visual correlation between the white light of the center orb and the Pale Tree itself. Then there is the fact that the PC, no matter what race, has been guided by the Pale Tree in the past while fighting Zhaitan. In the vision it would seem that the PC floats into the representation of the Pale Tree which then transitions to being the center orb. When my character emerged from their vision they described their own person as being approached by a dragon at the end. Since I wasn't then certain that the orbs were dragons I initially interpreted this differently. Now it might appear that something about the center orb also represents the hero. This gives a little more intrigue concerning the question. As a side note, I had a very amusing reaction to being called "Boss" and "The Boss" so many times during this episode. For a moment there I was almost convinced I was playing Saints Row. XD Very much enjoyed your video! You have a wonderful humor and actually pretty thorough analysis. It's certainly interesting to listen to and contemplate the storytelling. One of the best things about a good story is having someone to discuss it with and watching your video is definitely carrying that feeling for me. Keep up your crazy, flawed theories! They are very entertaining! :)
Another interesting piece of evidence for the dragons bringing magic back to their world is the unused Fissure of Woe gw2 map having Zhaithans' body on it.
So based on LW3, that is actually Zhaitan crashing into Tyria and releasing all of the magic, and the plants we see immediately after that is Mordremoth very quickly absorbing the magic (since Mordremoth is the closest physically to Zhaitan). Assuming they didn't try to retcon it, this means that they knew the plot of LW3 already in 2014, even before Heart of Thorns was announced!
thought of something what if each orb is one of the main races in the world.. when you make a new character each race glows a color: Charr - Red, Human - Yellow, Norn - Blue, Asura - Purple, Sylvari - Green, This leave 1 orb White this could be 1 of 3 races Kodan, Largos or Tengu as white could be snow,water (blue is Ice i think) or Wind and the center changes depending on which dragon is most active or biggest threat to the dragons which at the moment are Mordremoth and the Sylvari.
Hey WP, If you pay a visit to Marshwatch Haven Waypoint (North-East of Bloodtide Coast) you can see how dangerous the vines actually are. Just popping out of the ground straight to their target. Disconnecting from the bigger plant and still managing to work. ;)
I like that theory that ties the 6 gods with the 6 elder dragons, in like a yin-yang sort of way, one consumes magic, and the other one uses it, that could explain why the gods seem so distant, they just needed to recharge their batteries.
It kind of fits the recent magic theory that when an elder dragon dies, it's magic are released back into the world. It explains why the zaitan's orb smash into the world.
About the Pale Tree connection with the comment. I want to believe a theory someone posted on the forums saying that the machine is still based on sylvari physiology hence why we're hearing these voices. Especially as a non-sylvari. You said it yourself that Scarlet also tampered with it but at the same time it's more a fragment of what she experienced that we're drifting through.
I'll just regard each of the 6 orbs not just as elder dragons only, but also the new domains of magic (since the 4 of gw1 are probably changed now). life x death, fire x air, water x ice... or something like that? Then I'd say the gods don't necessarily need to be in 1 specific spot, but they are specialized in some of these magic domains more or less. They could even move along these domains, like @ WoodenPotatoes suggested. ps. I've also tried to couple the gods to a specific spot, and had some other ideas: if the black (later glowing green) was Mordremoth, the the coupling with Lyssa is less weird: mordremoth was the dragon with the magic domain of 'mind' not just 'nature'. If you put it like that, then Melandru is in the wrong spot again, because he's at Zhiathan's. But what if you put Grenth on his spot (he's not only god of ice, but also god of death, which makes sense). But then Melandru would be on Jormag's spot??? I've also though of dwayna as goddess of life = mordremoth, and kormir goddess of order (which might be jormag, because he vs DSD = order/structure vs chaos/fluidity, like water molecules ordered as ice vs fluid). Stretching it pretty far now... However you put it, you'll never completely fix the puzzle.
Really interesting thoughts, but I just have to say this. When looking at the scene with the orbs. If you look closely at the top left corner, left to the blue orb, there is something that looks like a dragons head. If you look closely in the bottom right corner next to the "white" orb, there is something that looks like a person either looking at you or to the right.. I might just be seeing things.
Holy cow, does this mean Mordremoth was awake all this time and that he was planning against the Pale Tree since it's birth. All he needed was to lie in wait and corrupt one of the Slyvari to give him enough power infect all of Tyria and destroy the Pale Tree with leyline energy? That's one cunning dragon. OR maybe it was by coincident that a Slyvari peaked into the Eternal Alchemy and Mordremoth just took advantage of it or maybe Scarlet was already corrupted by mordremoth since birth somehow with curiosity and that she was destined to do what she did now. Perhaps on the theory of Zhaitan is that he was not really defeated and he will come back one day. Technically we saw him fall into the unknown clouds, an area he pretty much infected or created. If there was Zhaitan's Mouth and Eyes then perhaps the brain and body can be two separate entities too. If he's the aspect of undead living, then in a sense he's not really defeated or rather his essence became something else for the time being until he recovers.
What about the placement of those orbs? If you look left to right, Fire is across from Ice, Jungle (life) is across from (un)Death, and Deep Sea is across from Crystal (Fluidity vs. Rigidity? I don't really know enough about either of those 2 to say what they stand for.). Zhaitan is dead. Maybe he was keeping Mordremoth in check like Jormag and Primordus could be keeping each other balanced? Might make more sense if we knew more about Bubbles and Kralky.
The green orb is clearly Zhaïtan, and the final movement shows death energies overflowing in Tyria, with vines appearing to signal that Mordremoth was the first to profit from the dragon of death's demise.
This is a crazy theory, and I think it might even make sense. Back in GW1, the mission Dragon's Lair. You fight the 6 Facets, BUT each facet is in a differently-looking area, so what if those areas are small chunks of the "dragon realms" ? Just my addition to this theory, I know it's crazy, but it might make sense.
From the player story: "once before I gave this sword to a beloved son" when giving Caladbolg to Trahearne. It seems like this supports the idea that this is some sort of cycle and has happened before in some form.
We now know that the green orb was representing Zhaitan and the black was Mordremoth (or rather their magic). Once an elder dragon is killed, their magic is released into the world. Each orb doesn't represent the dragon as much as the magic that the dragons possess. We theorize this in Living World Season 3 Episode 2, and it is verified in Path of Fire chapter 6.
Love the realms/dragons/gods/conduit/Abbadon//Paletree/etc idea. Sooo cool, you're kind of a genius WP, even if this all turns out to be completely different. Really hope it is something like that, cause things would get a whole lot more interesting.
To draw some parallels plot wise from gw1 to gw2, the pale tree serves the same role as glint does story wise: the prophetic character that opens the eyes of the protagonist to the bigger picture surrounding their destiny
I think the ley lines are really the key to the eternal alchemy. Whoever controls the ley lines, rules Tyria. Tyria's magic seems to be replenishing over time, while the other realms's magic is decreasing, so it wouldn't be a far fetch to say that the central realm is leeching magic from the others. All the dragons want the center spot, but only one can control it at a time. When the dragons rise, they are not only trying to eat up as much magic for their own realm as they can, they're also trying to take over Tyria entirely. Scarlet's plan was not only to wake up Mordremoth, but to also to help it with locating and taking over the ley lines. This is what I think the green orb taking over the middle was meant to represent. So taking this chain of argument to its logical conclusion, there is a 7th dragon in the middle of Tyria, who is the creator of all life as we know it, the pale tree is most likely its champion, and we are the minions protecting this realm.
One thing i felt like you missed here, when the green orb flew into the centre, the spinning of the rings around the tyria orb stopped, and green... mould sort of shit, covered the screen. Could that represent something too? maybe some vision of mordremoth effectively jamming the cycle somehow?
Lot of interesting stuff to think about. On that whole "Dragon=God" theory, I never liked that one either. IMO, it's either a coincidence that there are 6 gods and 6 dragons or (this one might be a bit of a stretch) the elder dragons are supposed to be the demonic counterparts of the gods, such as Balthazar vs. Primordus, or Grenth vs Zhaitan (and/or Jormag). Another thing I just thought up, and I think someone else mentioned in the comments below is that, assuming the orbs represent the elder dragons, the reason Zhaitan's orb lights up after Kralkatorrik's orb instead of the other way around is that the death dragon could be coming back to life, or "reawakening" if you will, sometime in the future (most likely through Tequatl) which is why those two orbs seemingly light up in the wrong order.
Magic in Tyria seems to have a correlation with color. Magic gives off light in specific colors. (Represented in the cut scene as red/orange, yellow/green, green, light blue, blue, and violet.) This magical spectrum is present in Tyria and each dragon eats the corresponding magic related to its domain. However, my belief is, the Pale Tree has been absorbing this magic as well. It's a plant (a very large one with big deep roots), gaining its nutrients and sustenance from Tyria itself. It has been drawing in all these magics, hence why Tyria is represented by pure white light, the combination of all light in the magical 'spectrum' as absorbed by the Pale Tree. My guess is the tree has been eating magic and doesn't want to lose its food supply if the dragons drain the world, so its helping the races combat them to preserve itself. It is now a physical manifestation of the planet's spirit and will.
I like the video, we've been saying this for months now in my circle of friends. I do believe you have the picture at 28:00 or so wrong though and if you cross reference the Guild Wars wiki gods page it is much easier to match up. Bubbles top left with Kormir/Facet of Spirit/Elements. Mordremoth middle left with Melandru/Facet of Nature/Creation, Primordus lower left with Balthazar/Facet of Strenth/Destruction, Kralkatorrik top right with Lyssa/Facet of Chaos/Illusion, Zhaitan middle right with Grenth (Dhuum etc.)/Facet of Death/Darkness, Jormag lower right with Dwayna/Facet of Light/Existence.
Possible that the Dragons, Mordremoth and Zhaitan, awakened earlier as shown, but got up at the dates of "awakening" to the races of Tyria, since they can't predict the actual date of awakening, the moment the dragon opens it's eyes. For Mordremoth awakened early, but wasn't strong enough to rise up from underground resting place. Zhaitan too might have spent some time underground, until decided that it's time to get out of his lair. Deep sea dragon awakened early too, due to the deep sea dwelling races, like Krait and Quaggan, trying to flee north from unending ocean...
You have to remember we didn't see all the vision, as we were pulled out of it. The first orb that hit the centre probably was Zhaitan because he was the first threat on Tyria in GW2. if we had continued the vision that orb may have been ejected and then the 2nd green orb landed in the middle to represent Mordremoth current corruption. The vision doesn't have to represent what is going on currently in the world, as it's just a vision. That could be why Scarlet wanted to stop Mordremoth because when she saw this vision she seen that Zhaitain was defeated and then saw Mordremoth was 2nd to corrupt Tyria. if we were to see the whole vision then we may see all the orbs land in the centre one by one and see what order we are going to face the dragons, but of course they wouldn't show us it all now. Remember, the vision is to see the future of Tyria, not necessarily what is going on in the world at the current time you enter the machine.
If the green orb was Zhaitan and black(then glowing green) was Mordremoth it works perfectly. I was thinking at first that since Zhaitan was defeated recently, shouldn't his orb have reflected that? Well when the green orb joins with the Tyrian orb in the center, that is not a representation of Mordremoth or rather Zhaitan now taking control, that was Zhaitan's orb being defeated and returning into the magical leylines of the world, rather than remaining a seperate entity known as an elder dragon.
That seems to be the case. Thanks :D
Ooh, I like that idea. Although still, it's a weird choice of colors for Zhaitan and Mordremoth then.
This. To quote from recent text, "Dragons consume magic, but they do not eat it. Instead they hold within themselves like a sponge holds water." ...messed up the wording a bit, but the line holds true. If you're going to take the orbs as a sign of the order they woke up in, then Zhaitan's orb falling into the center orb really would symbolize his fall and the flood of the magic he was storing... foreshadowed by the story of the Hyleck sparring partner, if you talk to him between sparring matches in his home.
that debunks like the entire second half of the video
Frank Nemati
Mind you, this doesn't mean that killing the elder dragons is a bad thing. In the ancient primordial times, huge lumbering beasts was the only way to deal with the magic overwhelming the physical world and breaking it up into the Mists. Things are different now; we have Bloodstones, Oboliscs, or just Asuran Mana Batteries. We have alternatives if we stop, think of the repercussions, and make preparations. The cleansing ritual on Orr is probably protecting Tyria greatly from the fallout from Zhaitan, but what will protect us from the fallout from Mordremoth?
Plot twist: The five remaining dragons all fuse together, creating the 5 Headed Dragon. The Yu-Gi-Oh theme song plays in the background as you, the player, slay it. Trahearne shows up at the end and takes all the credit.
After I played through this instance, I just had to come here to hear your perspective on things. You didn't disappoint. Love the speculation and theories. Very though-provoking video. Well done, WP!
WP, hearing you intertwine gw2 lore with gw1 and forming good speculation makes you sound like a priory scholar! :P
It would be great to hear your voice as a sylvari scolar NPC if ANet gave you the chance to do so
LOL *****, everyone knows syvaris are British :D
lol
Definitely *****!
I hope WP sees this :D
@@riacharda Their names are all Welsh Gaelic if I'm not mistaken, I named my Sylvari necro after a mythical Celtic demon.
Wooow. This just hit me. What if whatever is in the center is keeping the other 6 major powers in balance? The orb representative of Zaithan is opposite that of Mordremoth. What if by defeating Zaithan we allowed Mordremoth to gain power? This is really getting interesting.
Interesting theory!
On a side note, must add that on the left side are orbs that supposedly represent Elder Dragons with sor of nature, elemental theme: DSD for water, Mordremoth for vegetation and Primordus for fire. Orb on the right, on the other hand, do not fit in that 'just nature' theme, and most importantly they kind of oppose natural theme. Lifeless Branded and Risen, as well as Icebrood, they all are converted from living beings to servants of Dragons, willingly or not. And then, it's not all about these orbs. Kralkatorrik is said to be the dragon of winds, sandstorms and thunders. Zhaithan represents death, to be short. And finally, Jormag, representing blizzards and cold.
So what we have is a concept of not only opposing themes, but rather elemets of existense that add one to another and cannot be without each other. Water and the air, firstly, could be a reference of pretty much real occurances in nature, like water cycle of evaporation and rains. Next is nature, growth and life, that is bounded by inevitable death, that prevents it from endless and chaotic growth. And last one is Fire and Ice, complete opposites, and if you dig deeper, one represents depths and heat that contains there, while other - heights, and cold air of the peeks.
Damn, this is so good that I'll just repost it as an ordinary comment. :p
Mad Johnson
I would say that instead of primordius being opposite jormag and kraalkatorik being opposite bubbles, the top should be opposite the bottom of the other side and vice versa (draw lines through the center orb to find the opposites). This way it would be wind opposite fire (wind can blow fire out) and ice opposite water. Could be wrong, both ways seem to work pretty well, I just think that they would make the opposing dragons be diagonally across from each other, through the center of the middle orb.
CallMeKing
sorry to disappoint you, but wind and air in general makes fires only stronger. Which means that your idea is already partly false.
How is ice opposites water? Can't quite understand. Though might still work if we put it other way:
Primordus (fire, chaos) | Kralkatorrik (basalt [volcanic stone], structure)
Bubbles (water, fluidity) | Jormag (ice, stasis)
Zhaitan (death, destruction) | Mordremoth (life, creation)
(that stuff with opposites from official forums, forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/livingworld/s2/Cutscene-Huge-Realization-Spoilers )
WoodenPotatoes ITS JUST A THEORY! A GAME THEO- oh wait. nvm. wait. it is! A GAME THEORY! XD
Okay, the way I interpreted this was a bit... different. I interpreted the orbs lighting up as the usual order the dragons wake in. As in... since the beginning of time. My assumption was that this represented the usual cycle of dragon awakening around Tyria. I also assumed that while the Dragons often touched Tyria and slumbered upon it, they never became part of it. Their influence didn't last for eternity. Their effects upon the land eventually fade as the magic that sustained those effects waned and was devoured.It was also my understanding that Zhaitan was awoken "early" somehow by the mage on Orr who summoned him and tried to use his power to defeat the Charr, which sank the island beneath the waves and turned all the citizens into undead and a walking blight upon the land. It was only recently when Orr rose back above the waves that Zhaitan was even "active". But, despite being active, it wasn't a part of Tyria, it was only consuming the magic of Tyria as it sat upon its "throne" in Orr. This may explain why the last two orbs are "out of order" in terms of awakening, if Zhaitan was indeed awoken early by a mage and that wasn't its natural order (which may also explain why it didn't do much more than send the occasional ship of undead to the shores around Orr instead of trying to corrupt all the land it could get access to).But, now we have Mordremoth. Mordremoth created the Pale Tree. To my knowledge, it is the first Dragon to create its own sentient race upon Tyria and create what would likely be a permanent link to Tyria itself. An aspect of it that would stay and linger long after it had returned to slumber. Something that would continue to grow and spread long after the magic was consumed. I think Scarlett brought Mordremoth permanently into Tyria as the only way to destroy the Dragons forever. I don't think her goal was to just "wake" the Dragon... oh it's pretty much guaranteed he was already awake. I think her goal was to render the dragon mortal to be killed forever instead of just put back into slumber.After all, do we have definitive proof that Zhaitan is actually dead? Oh, sure, we have proof of his defeat, but not of his death. His minions still roam across Orr and that continent itself is still as corrupted as it ever was. Everyone in the game says Zhaitan is "defeated", but nobody says "dead". My assumption was that we just put the big jerk back to sleep to keep him from consuming magic and spreading his influence. And with all that firepower we unleashed upon him, what did we manage to do? Tumble him into a tower and have it collapse upon him. Our advanced magical guns of massive destruction simply caused a tower to topple on him and did pretty much zero damage to him in the first place.If the Dragons are indeed the "Gods" of Tyria, that would mean that they are pretty much invincible. You're able to defeat them, but not to kill them. The endless cycle of Dragons waking, consuming magic, returning to slumber. They've awoken many times in history, usually destroyed the sentient races of the time during their awakening, but they don't really destroy the world itself. The lore says that they consume magic. What if magic only exists within the sentient races and the things they create? What if the Dragons only awake when these two things reach a "critical mass" upon the world?So, what if Scarlett was trying to destroy this cycle? The cycle of sentient creatures creating and using so much magic that the dragons would awaken, consume as much of the sentient races and their magical societies as possible, and then return to slumber? They cannot be killed, and there's no way magic would be outlawed in Tyria because it would be impossible to police. So, if her plan was to make the Dragons mortal... and thus able to be killed instead of merely defeated and put back into slumber... What if that's what it means when the Mordremoth orb slams into the center and becomes part of it? What if it is a plan that Mordremoth also sought to begin with, but Scarlett twisted to her own end? Mordremoth created The Pale Tree as a foothold into Tyria, a means to expand his influence even while he slumbered. A means to take over Tyria and force the other Dragons out forever? To thin out the competition and consume more magic all for himself? Maybe even eventually consuming the other Dragons as magic as well?So, what if Scarlett's ramblings about breaking the cycle and "no cycle lasts forever, something always evolves and changes" were her discovering Mordremoths' plan (which is maybe why The Pale Tree is presented prominently in the vision... as well as why it eventually zooms out to show that it is simply inside the socket of the world of Tyria) and deciding that she didn't want to be a part of that. She didn't want to be a tool... didn't like the simple answer of her existence being owed to Mordremoth and his plan to own all of Tyria. So, what if her answer was to drag Mordremoth kicking and screaming into being a mortal so that while he would have much greater power... he'd also be vulnerable to being destroyed forever?What if her antics were merely her attempt to destroy the God that would simply use her and her kind as tools? What if her plan were to mobilize everyone to destroying the threat posed to Tyria by the Dragon who had tried to plant a permanent foothold there? Crazy as she was... might she not have been a hero as well? Who knows?Long story short, I think the thing represents Mordremoth not becoming active, but becoming mortal and a part of Tyria that can be obliterated for eternity. It represents making him a huge threat, but also making him mortal.
Maybe sylvaris are supposed to be dragon minions? Ronan found a seed in a cave and whatnot, maybe those seeds are the teeth of mordremoth, the teeths creates the great trees that his minions arrive from, what makes our pale tree different is the ventaris tablet, and perhaps during it's growth the tree became corrupted(in a good way of course), by the tablet in such that they are naturally shielded from mordems control. And so upon entering the machine, scarlet unlocked that part, passed trough the shield and the dragon slowly gained control over her, twisting her.
The pale tree herself maybe knows of this and does not wish to be part of the dragons control but hides this secret to protect herself and her sylvaris from the corruption?
In the cut scene, after the when we saw the Pale tree, it almost looked like the it transformed into the glowing white orb of light in Tyria. This could be suggesting that the Pale Tree was the center of magic that the Elder dragons are seeking to consume. This could also be why Scarlet was having visions of strangling the Pale Tree. Maybe she wanted this power, this magic that is contained within Tyria.
Could be! I also found it curious that the white ball of 'magic' in 'tyria' is the EXACT same size as the 'elder dragon orbs'. I doubt thats a coincidence. (This wasnt mentioned in the video)
WoodenPotatoes Maybe this could represent the need of magic for the dragons, maybe they need it, not just want it. It might almost be like their 'fuel' or food if so. If the orb 'runs' out of magic, they need to get more, and their closest place is Tyria. This could also be why the Mordemoth was next in line to collect magic, maybe because he awoke due to Scarlet, he needed extra magic 'power' to strike. Really interesting and awesome video as always!
After extensively analyzing the audio in Audacity, here's my transcript of the dialogue during the cinematic:
3:27 - Avatar of the Pale Tree: "The Pale Tree sees all." (Could not find this quotation anywhere on the GW2 Wiki. Also, I am not entirely sure if this is the Pale Tree speaking or someone else...possibly Caithe?)
3:36 - Ceara / Scarlet Briar: "I saw it!" (Presumably her first exclamation after awakening from Omadd's Machine, although this exact quote is NOT found in the short story "What Scarlet Saw".)
3:43 - Avatar of the Pale Tree: "Do not question the Dream. We must all play our parts." (This is an EXACT quote from the very end of the Sylvari personal story mission "Black Night, White Stag"; see wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Night,_White_Stag. Interestingly, however, the audio of the quote during the cinematic and the personal story mission are NOT exactly the same; there are some slight differences in the way the voice actress enunciated/inflected certain words.)
Also, I'm pretty sure the ending scene with the orbs surrounding the Pale Tree is actually ArenaNet's way of telling us that Tyria is set within the Game of Thrones universe. Look familiar? cdn2.artofthetitle.com/assets/resized/sm/upload/zt/y0/vt/4f/got_astrolabe-0-1280-0-1024.jpg. (Just kidding.)
I would like to point out that when he was playing the vision in slow motion, I realized that each orb that was opposite to the other was basically a counter-balance. For example (if we are talking about dragons), Bubbles (water, flowing) was opposite to Jormag (ice, solitary). Mordremoth (life, growth) was opposite to Zhaitan (death, decay). Primordus (molten, bright/heat) was opposite to Kralkatorrik (crystal/stone, dark/cool). So perhaps what the entire orb scene is showing is that, since Zhaitan died, Mordremoth has no counter-balance/element/magic to keep him from over feeding on magic - therefore he is gaining much more power than Zhaitan had ever gained (or any other dragon currently), since he was being counterbalanced himself by Mordremoth. Maybe this is where the scene shows the effect of Zhaitan being dead.
WP videos in the mysteries part of your channel is why i love you! Please keep making more videos like these! I love hearing your view and explanation of things!!
In my opinion since the map is the eternal alchemy and everything is connected I think the orbs represent the dragons, gods and the realms. Everything! I am having a lot of fun reading everyone's theories. Living story season 2 is so well done and i am pretty sure I almost fell out of my chair for season 2 episode 2 of the last scene. SO AMAZING! I am loving where this all is headed. My friend in my guild also had a theory about Taimi. Since she was in the room with the machine that made scarlet insane and there was a confirmed future boss we will fight my friend theorized that since she is so reckless and now somehow affected by the machine maybe poor little taimi will become corrupt and will be a boss we will fight! Also with her degenerative disease shes going to have to die at some point. With her gone all of tyria will be having a motive to get revenge!!!!
Every time I'm about to quit GW2, I come to your channel and another one of your videos just rekindles my love for GW Lore. Thanks for being awesome, WP!
I really wish you would do some abridged recap videos for new and old players that haven't played in a while, to catch up. Like a "Story So Far" type of thing.
Anyways, thanks for bringing me back! Keep it up!
Your theories about the orbs not only representing the dragons but also realms makes me hope that one day we will be able to go to all six realms (and maybe even more?)
I'd personally most love to go to Melandru's/Mordremoth's/the nature realm, since I think that could look really cool.
Awesome vid WP, love hearing your thoughts on lore and story!
on your gods= dragons theory
This is probably the best explanation
Grenth was a god way before abbadon went batshit, Water magic got split between lyssa and dwayna. Dhuum didnt forbid necromancy, he banned rezzing, Blood, Curse and Soul Reaping magic were all a-ok (even tho they werent under the title of necromancy which Desmina kinda founded with Grenths blessing).
Grenth is described as Dwaynas son by a in game character, not a object or (even better) a event, just as 99% of jotun talk, it could be a lie or misinformation.
Zhaitan wasnt afraid of the artifact itself, but that its magic could be used to beat him (which was shown multiple times in the personal story to be true, you can stop dragon corruption via the mists, balthazars blessing gives you the power to destroy otherwise immortal wraiths in seconds and plow trough hordes of risen with a single swing of your sword, not to mention the powers the temple risen got).
Also servants of Abbadon didnt instantly become mad, they became mad if they used the magic of the realm of torment and/or demonic powers.
Abbadon is tied to dragons via magic, being retconned between GW1 and GW2 into being the only god who gave humans magic thus the one indirectly who gave/prepared the dragons food~
***** 1. i never said grenth and abbadon were connected in godhsip.i mad eit clear that grenth replaced DHUUM not abbadon. and he took over the water department when the time needed him to. lyssawas never connected to water in GW1 also.
yes it was its even in the wiki.
be it the magic or not zhaitan was afraid of it end of discussion there.
never stated instantly, yet again. however varesh lsot more and more sanity as she saw secrets with abbadons influence, driving her mad. also his prson realm was madness suffering etc and it has the same map as the eternal alchemy. im jsut making the connection between scarlet and abbadon here. I don´t say that abbadon influenced her i say the same thing abbadno knew about drove scarlet mad. which is fact.
everything is connected somehow so your point is kinda pointless.
also i wa snot debating what abbadon actually didmy point of the entire post was actually to pin point down that abbadon is the knee angke point of every major lore and histoory through out the game. every major event that led to the state tyria is in right now outside of dragon inlfuence is directly influenced by him. the magic wars, the searing,orrs destruction. the corruption of shiro the betrayer. the nightfall incident in elona, his prison sahped by him with his knowledge of everything resemlbing the eternal alchemy, abbadons srhine in the PS, abbadon fractal.......
he is literaly everwhere we step to.
scholars might have ereased him from history but abbadons influence is still in everyaspect of guild wars.and thats my point here. we will meet abbadon again in one form antoher. beit a semi last boss or actually the last of all bosses or as the mis understood demonic hero god.
MikePhantom
The point was, grenth didnt take over water, it were dwayna and lyssa. Either way your English is on the level of a toddler thus i cant be bothered with you anymore, such a person cannot make statements about something written and said in a language they themselves cant use properly.
MikePhantom
I'm pretty sure you have good ideas but please check you're spelling before posting. It really makes it hard for anyone to listen to you and I cringe a bit every time I read over one of your typos.
As someone who played through this episode after finishing Path of Fire and Heart of Thorns, it makes a lot more sense to say "Zitan's orb crashed into Tyria because his magic was released into the ley lines." We see hybrid dragon minions in the living world season 3 maps, particularly in the Ring of Fire maps. What we now know about our dragon friends is, just like the gods, if there is no one to absorb their magic, their "sphere" of power, it is distributed throughout the rest of the world and infects the other dragons. But it is also fascinating to hear your theories and weigh them as someone who had not at this time seen what we have seen, and how accurate you were predicting the story two to four years in advance.
Each orb is a marble and scarlet is playing a mini Petanque match as her re-incarnation of a baby quaggan with her other quaggan friends.
this patch gave me chills, I really loved GW1 because of the well-made lore and good story, and it looks like GW2 is FINALLY making work of their stories, and it's amazing! I can't wait for more!
Thanks for bringing back GW2 Mysteries. My favorite show!
wonderful video. It's been a while since you've been able to do one of these and I am happy they are back and that the game is able to provide this for you and for the community. It's amazing. My own speculation is that it was Z's orb that hit the center and symbolic of his death, of us killing him and now the cycle is messed up. Some of your sound more plausible though.
^^ This is my favorite theory. This video and the comments made me also come to love the thought of all Zhatian's magic being released when he died, thus super-charging the ley lines, and when those ley lines were fed directly to Mordy, it made him super powerful!
...The dragon growl at the end representing Zhaitan's rebirth, as needed to maintain balance, would just be icing on the cake. That or Z's power got pumped into Tequatl, making him more powerful, and eventually he will become the new Zhaitan!
***** If you look on one of WP's earlier videos (like from 1-2 years ago) you can find my theory on Zhaitan Self-Rezzing. But you don't need to. I am but a lowly commenter on UA-cam.
Its Funny Watching this Video after Running the Harvest Temple Strike
I know this is a very late comment but I do have a question. you kept talking about dragons taking control. but what if the orb crashing into the center actually represents the death of a dragon and the system they're a part of starting to collapse?
My thought is the orbs are the dragons in order of waking up so flip your Mordremoth and Zhaitan orbs. From there, Zhaitans orb crashes into the center and all the magic built up within it has then been released, symbolizing the death of an elder dragon. Thus, in theory, we're seeing Zhaitan's power dispersed and consumed by the remaining Elder Dragons.
I'm confused, but I really like it. Guild Wars 1 had a lot of these little things that made you want to play more and find out about them, so I'm glad GW2 is now doing something similar. Really looking forward to the next part of the story.
I Love how you can dive into all the known lore and theories as well as speculations and come up with such a compelling piece of work WP. Bravo! I don't understand it all, I don't even understand everything you said in this one video, but hell of a job! :)
Looked for ages to find this video. After playing living world season 2 and hearing the Npcs talk about this wanted to find out what they meant, you videos have and always are amazing plus loving the stream!
I actually thought about this yesterday.. And here's my theory. So i was checking out my bank and found a Spinal Blade Pack Blueprint signed by Scarlet saying to Caith that soon she'd see that Tyria needed her, but why.. In the Eternal Alch. Cutscene everyone noticed that the orbs represent the elder dragons, and that at the end, Zhaitan's gets pulules into the big one. Elder dragons feed on magic in order to keep Tyria balanced so the magic energy wont overload. After doing so, they go back to sleep so Tyria produc. more magic for the next time they wake up. So Elder dragons wouldnt be 'bad' they do cause destruction but they are needed to balance the world. Us as the PC killed Zhaitan, this way affecting all of Tyria, ence the final part of the cutscene. Now where does Scarlet comes in? Do keep in mind that she was the 1st to see the Eternal Alchemy, what if she noticed that since Zhaitan had been killed, it would affec Tyria's balancing process. So what she did was, since one Elder dragon was missing, she replaced it by awakening Mordremoth. That's why she claims Tyria needing her, for she was actually trying to save us all :b Sorry for the big ass story but it makes sense >.
Dragon was missing, Scarlet "replaced" it with another one. By awakening Mordremoth. This ofc if the green orb was Zhaitan's, which would also add up to the chronological periods of their awakening :o
25:41 if you pause it here, there is most definitely a tree like figure made out of the blue lines. The bottom symbolises the roots, and the top looks like leaves. I would strongly assume this is the Pale Tree. And then, it's as if the whole world turns sideways/upside-down.
This leads me onto 28:26, which is really quite interesting. If we assume that the order from Balthazar onwards clockwise goes; Balthazar > Grenth > Lyssa > Kormir > Dwayna > Melandru; which is very plausible, what does this mean? Well, this is the order of the god statues/districts in Divinity's Reach, which makes the desire for Queen Jennah's Royal Locket even more suspicious. It also adds up as to why Scarlet was trying to "capture" Queen Jennah in Season 1. By the way, we are following Scarlet's trail?
Oh wait, that Green thing smashing into the middle of this could be a direct attack on the Heart/Locket of Divinity's Reach and/or Divinity's Reach itself. I also highly believe this is leading towards the White Mantle, because in GW1, the White Mantle searched the Maguuma for the Bloodstone? (I'm not the shabbiest on my lore). Is this Mordemoth's revenge?
I would love for you to theory craft this further WP because i feel this is very plausible and ties in very well with the Entanglement update.
TL:DR; Mordemoth is getting revenge for the White Mantle entering Maguuma in GW1, by invading/destroying Divinity's Reach.
Finally! Been waiting for a GW2 Mysteries for ages! :D
Great episode. I'd go as far as to say it was better than the first one. Got dem feels and dat nice cutscene too. If in the aftermath of the end of this episode we don't get a sort of an acid trippy instance where we as the player go a wee bit mad just to sort of empathise us with Scarlet, then it's been a bit of a plot holey waste. I mean, do we just go through the whole thingy without much consequence? I want to go mad in Gw2, but just temporarily xD.
I don't know if the two options at the end will actually make a difference, but I chose "I.. I have to go." as if there is more you saw that you aren't telling everyone, something is bothering you, affecting you and creates some sort of distance that has room for that sort of possibility.
The other option just seemed too responsible and I really want to see some sort of conflict within the group. As WP said before everything is cartoony when it is simply a state of something goes wrong --> band together and fix it.
The events with Omadd's machine open up a lot of possibilities and mystery which is just fantastic.
I really hope the dev's see this video. The stories you have described here would be so exciting to play through in game. So much potential for plot twists! I'm really hoping for the double bluff and Zhaitan comes back. It would also redeem that awful personal story ending they had.
My view of the god to Dragon conversions and the design:
Balthazar ->Primordus; fire, destruction (War, Destroyers)
Melandru -> Mordremoth: The natural world plants
Grenth -> Zhaitan: Themes of death
Dwayna -> Jormag: Air, or frig air in the case of Jormag
Lyssa -> Kralkatorrik: Beauty, Crystals, lots 'o purple
Kormir -> Bubbles: Abbadon was the god of water, and secrets, the deep sea is both secretive and watery (there may be some purpose to calling him the DEEP sea dragon, and not just the sea dragon.
Perhaps the design does not specifically have to do with the Dragons/Gods/Etc, but rather the Dragons/Gods/ all of existence is affected by the design- six facets to bring balance to the central hub. Within each reality, this theme holds constant, which is why the realm of torment holds a similar design.
Or, if your concept of each sphere representing a plane of existence (fissure of woe, underworld, etc), then perhaps the entire design is somewhat like a fractal in nature- when you soon into one of the spheres, you find its layout matches the pattern already established (the reality and entirety of the purple orb is similar in structure to the reality of Tyria). I believe recent lore states that there are multiple realities of Tyria connected by the mists, so maybe this all fuses into yet another system that is similar in design.
Just crazy theories.
When I saw this on my sylvari - my mind was blown. So excited to see where this vision of the Eternal Alchemy will take us~!
If Zhaitan is the dark green orb, which does make more sense with the way they light up, then perhaps that orb smashing into the middle is showing his death? Like, perhaps that is showing him being removed from the cycle and all his held magic exploding out of him, essentially flooding the sort of sphere of magic in the world/universe.
WP, if you equate the gods and the dragons - here's something for you to ponder: It was Abaddon who gave magic to the Tyrian races, and he resisted the other gods when they wanted to take that magic back, no?
Abbadon got replaced by Kormir in 1075. At most a few years later, the dragons begin to wake up and consume magic. Coincidence? It can't be, not at the timescales involved. Nightfall may have upset the balance of things at a much deeper level than we thought. Kormir, as a goddess of order, may very well be OK with restoring "the natural order" whatever that may be. [and of course gods may not have much choice, any more than a caterpillar has a choice of morphing into a butterfly.]
Also, Abaddon was associated with Orr, where Zhaitan made his base.
Finally, do consider Dhuum. I think not much has been done with him, right, but also he isn't dead yet, is he? What if he managed to ursurp Kormir in the wake of Nightfall? He's a god of death, and a nasty one, so he'd be a REALLY good match for Zhaitan, bringing that blackness and death element in that seems to be lacking from Kormir.
I am sure this has all been pointed out by others, I don't follow the lore discussions much; I apologize for any redundancy.
If you read the summary of the latest episode Arenanet clearly state that the orbs represent the elder dragons, "-one that included the Pale Tree and a handfull of mysterious orbs representing Elder Dragons". So in regards of the order in which they light up, I think the cinematics team just messed it up. =)
Nice job WP. It is DEFINITELY elder dragons represented by the 6 orbs. In the hero panel, the last paragraph of Entangled says it plainly.
WP, I think you're on the right track with the orbs being Elder Dragons, but I think you might not be thinking of one possible outcome. I was unsure of the time that the dragons woke up until listening to your explaination just now, which then further made me think that something I thought up last night is correct.
So basically, the orbs are the Elder Dragons. Top Left - bubbles, Top Right - Kralkatorrik, Bottom Left - Primordus, Bottom Right - Jormag. I think most everyone can agree on those points being what they are. But as for Mordremoth and Zhaitan's position, I believe they are on the Right and Left respectively. I've got some reasoning behind this theory - as well as a reason it entered the center orb.
As you described the awakening of the Elder Dragons, it made more sense that this was the case - that it was Zhaitan in the Left-Center orb. All the Elder Dragons woke up, and proceeded to do as they wished in the world/followed their cycle of consume magic and sleep - until we, the player, intervened and destroyed the cycle.. By killing Zhaitan.
I want to add onto that before continuing. The image Scarlet drew and the vision the Eternal Alchemy showed us - there's no way at all that it just happens to look like the Realm of Torment. No way. They've been putting too much stuff into the game that supports the idea of either re-entering the Realm of Torment to take care of something evil over there or my conclusion at the end of this. My Theory is that The Eternal Alchemy has shown us what we needed to see - A growing threat; Us.
Basically, when we killed the Elder Dragon Zhaitan, we effectively destroyed the cycle. Some say that we haven't had any proof of his death, of which to that I say 'look at this cutscene'. Originally I thought the orb that smashed into the center orb was Mordremoth becoming active, but then I thought, we killed Zhaitan.. What if that was the Zhaitan was the first key to unlocking something? Perhaps even a challenge to test our mettle as a collective force before something BIG happens? What if the Elder Dragons are actually wardens or seals to a portal that, if removed from the equation, opens up to allow all the bad things we've taken care of in the past back into Tyria?
That would include Shiro, the Lich Lord, The Elder Dragons(possibly, if they were sent to the Realm of Torment), The return of Scarlet Briar and Zephyrite Aerin, and anyone and anything else that we've foiled plans for.
TL;DR:
So, In theory, with the information you've presented in this, I further conclude that its possible that the orb's are the dragons, and their(the orbs) activation order is their order of being woke up. The one that smashed into Tyria's Orb is Zhaitan and the first key to unlocking a portal somewhere in Tyria - a portal connected to the Realm of Torment. Also; we, the people of Tyria, are unknowingly opening this portal and are, quite literally, going to have hell to pay for our actions. The vision the Eternal Alchemy showed us was a warning, but we, the player, are unsure of this at this time.
This is what I've come to. I've had some people on tumblr agree with it, but no one's come right out and debunked it in any way yet. Honestly, WP, I wanna hear your opinion on this. :D
~Floyd Hunter; TheRavingNecromancer.tumblr.com
WP again proves to be the best Guild Wars 2 UA-cam content producer. Thanks for this. :-)
i love your analysis videos! great job!
Hope to see more from this kind of gw2 movies in the future!
As you can see at the end of the cutscene, when Mordremoth's orb hits the middle sphere, the outer ring of the sphere begins to glow green. So each ring, which protects the universe/tyria is an elder dragon. The human gods know this and brought humans to earth to fight them and left before the dragons awake again.
Also note that each "dragon" got 2 rings for themselves which could represent their champions (like glinth was).
1- i actually quite like your realm theory, though i'm not sure how well it works with the gods' realms. it reminded me of the lore behind WvW, which says different "shards" of tyria are fighting each other for resources in order to fuel their fight against the dragons.
2- i'm surprised you didn't mention the eye at the end. the whole "something stared back at scarlet" thing was a big deal, so when mordremoth's orb engulfs everything, it looks like an eye staring back at you. apparently i'm the only one that noticed that, but it's the only way "i saw a dragon" fits the cutscene.
3- those extra circles look like some photoshop brushes i have lol.
Saw this, wanted to share a wall of text of thoughts:
It looks like the leylines activating the orbs are roots of the pale tree. Like it was soaking up (maybe) or producing magic to give it to them. The lines that are drawn between the orbs might express some equilibrium of energies. I think this is like a calendar showing how it shouldve worked, somehow. Only interpreting the tree and the leylines or better roots, it shows, that the orbs are pushed out of rest with more force, that wouldve been needed to activate them. They absorb some of the magic produced by the tree flowing throw the leylines into the circles (they seem to be accumulations of magic/energy), while excessive energy flows, as its shown in the circulization around the tree, back into the trees crown. The energy flowing seems to have a pulse rate. As if it was a living organism, thats pulsing blood throw its veins. Therefor magic, as energy in the real world, seems to be retained. It is then shown that those potentials are rather spheric than bows, they have two components, one that fluctuates around and one that is static or at least appears static. It appears static, because we are moving down. We are heading to the core of the leylines. Therefor it is not standing still, it is just moving with us, so downwards. Its the magic that flows back down from the top of the tree. I think the outer fluctuation shows some kind of pulse for the orb activation. So at this pulse rate there is that amount of magic fluctuating from bottom to top, that means also from top to bottom, therefor fluctuates throw the orbs. They get activated after the circle is finished. But what is the circle? The circle is determined by the fluctuation rate of magic. The orbs have different activation times, therefor they need to be different in some sort of thing. At first the little rings need to be activated, they need to be filled with magic to make a pass for the big leyline leading to every orb. You can see that, because after the orbs are release, magic still fluctuates through the little rings. Its like tearing a string until it has enough potential energy to break free. Keeping this in mind aswell as the magic is flowing clockwise, leads to the different activation times. Ok, enough interpretation now. Let me give you a wild guess: The green orb was released earliert than Scarlett poked its leyline. My bet would be placed on the following: the orbs represent an equilibrium of magic forces. If one gets released it starts a chain reaction, causing overflown magic to flow back into the crown of the tree and also filling the outer ring of the orb with magic, leaving to a release of the next more powerfilled orb. After their release, it is more likely for those forces, that are now out of balance, to suppress the others by taking more magic for its own force. Here comes Scarlett and pokes the leyline of the green orb. The green orb has a dragon connected to it. Its purpose is to balance the green force of nature by consuming the magic the green orb wants to suck out of the equilibrium within the tree. Therefor dragons are "destruction" to the tree and magic, while beeing some sort of balancing crew for the orbs. The nature of dragons to release their stored magic might be the cause for the difference between the nightmare court and the normal sylvari. The normal sylvari try to protect the tree based on the lies told by the "dream" while the nightmare court actually tryes to gather magic and got an idea of what the dragons are actually doing. That would mean, the player is not really helping the world of tyria to survive, but only helping the races of tyria to survive while their magic is in a chaotic state. At this point we may aswell close the circle to Abbaddon, but thats enough wall of text about wild theories for today :)
Thanks for reading, greets, love your videos - lovely stories most people do not even try to understand, perfectly presented and weaved into the whole story line! Keep the good work!
Maybe. Dragons are like great cosmic forces of Tyria. And they make everything in harmony. Now that we killed Zhaitan(dark green orb) all system goes wild and breaks. So Zhaitan is no more and his orb crashes into Tyria. And maybe the crash is making Tyria weaker and with each dragon we kill others become more potent and powerful. So much room for speculation :) And thank you WoodenP for your amazing insights.
Zhaitan lightning up last could represent that when we defeated him, he fell back asleep, just like when the dwarves fought primordis back to sleep.
I believe that since Zhaitan was (somewhat) defeated, his awakening cycle reset, he is at the end again until he can slowly gain enough magic again. I figure the Dragons still feed even though they are sleeping, just at a much slower rate. Great work WP, love every video!
If the centre represents tyria's magic and the orbs are representing dragon's magic then yes it could be zhaitan is the green orb that falls in the centre because his magic got released in the world. It doesn't show the central orb dissappear so it could work like that
from the Lyssa GW2 wiki page: At some point the gods became aware of the existence of the hibernating Elder Dragons, who were tied to the magical balance of Tyria, and learned their names and "spheres of influence". This information was documented in what would come to be known as the Scroll of the Five True Gods.
it is absolutely amazing how deep GW2 lore is....
I'm not a Guildwars lore buff, but Im very interested in the lore and I'm 100% confident, that I can answer the question at 20:00:
We already learned that the Elder Dragons ARE part of nature and in this cutscene, we learn that they are even more, they are an INTEGRAL part of the universe.
We already know that "now" (ingame during the events of GW2) isn't the first time the Elder Dragons wake up - in fact, the Elder Dragons woke up at least 2 times before (probably more often, but the documentation is lost).
I'm 100% sure that what we're supposed to learn is that the Elder Dragons are in a perpetual cycle of sleeping -> waking up -> trying to consume all magic -> getting defeated -> falling asleep again. They are never TRUELY "killed because they are forces, aspects of nature/the universe that swell and subside like the tides.
Zhaitan was probably just the most recent "version"/aspect of the Elder Dragon of "Undeath" (or how you want to title him) - and it will either form a new body and re-awake as Zhaitan one day, or it will just re-awake as a new "version" with a new name, still being the "Aspect"/Elder Dragon of "Undeath".
Amazing video WP! Really, because of you this game is much more enjoyable!
Next video: Plot Twist! Scarlet was a force for good, everything she made was to help us in the long run!
Same as many others I think the 4th green orb is Zhaitan and not Mordremoth (Necromancer skills are also green so in general if this theory is right, the orbs activating process shows the dragons awakenings perfectly). What we can be looking at is either zhaitans influence (even if Mordremoth is awakening and there are some of his minions causing havoc, there are still WAY MORE risens in the world of tyria).or maybe Zhaitans power returning to the Tyrian core. And since Mordremoth is having such a fun time absorbing the magic directly from the lay lines, he's absorbing Zhaitans powers as well. Which, if you look at the new Mordrem Wolf for example, is affecting his own corruption. In the first episode, his minions were just "overgrown" - they looked more thorny but they kept their original appearance. If you check the new Mordrem Wolf, you can clearly see his skull. Eternal Alchemy can refer to an endless cycle of magic. Zhaitan's remaining power had to go somewhere and it's still present in the world of Tyria (otherwise the risens would be gone).
Try this on: The falling green orb does represent Zhaitan/Kormir(Abaddon). If gods and dragons are facets of the same essential thing then perhaps the same governing principles apply. When Abaddon is defeated Kormir takes its place as god facet of that particular element. When Zhaitan is defeated something/someone needs to fill the dragon facet vacuum (Trahearne perhaps). And what happens if a Sylvari, linked as they are to the Pale Tree, assumes either a god or dragon aspect? Perhaps the Zhaitan orb isn't falling into Tyria but being pulled in by the Pale Tree for whatever purpose.
What if what Scarlet saw was the intention of the Pale Tree to do the same with Caithe and Faolain, grooming them to assume an elemental aspect and therefore bind said aspect to the Pale Tree? Anyways just wheels spinning...
On a side note, must add that on the left side are orbs that supposedly represent Elder Dragons with sort of nature, elemental theme: DSD for water, Mordremoth for vegetation and Primordus for fire. Orb on the right, on the other hand, do not fit in that 'just nature' theme, and most importantly they kind of oppose natural theme. Lifeless Branded and Risen, as well as Icebrood, they all are converted from living beings to servants of Dragons, willingly or not. And yet there is something else about these orbs. Kralkatorrik is said to be the dragon of winds, sandstorms and thunders. Zhaithan represents death, to be short. And finally, Jormag, representing blizzards and cold.
So what we have is a concept of not only opposing themes, but rather elemets of existense that add one to another and cannot be without each other. Water and the air, firstly, could be a reference of pretty much real occurances in nature, like water cycle of evaporation and rains. Next is nature, growth and life, that is bounded by inevitable death, that prevents it from endless and chaotic growth. And last one is Fire and Ice, complete opposites, and if you dig deeper, one represents depths and heat that contains there, while other - heights, and cold air of the peeks.
I LOVED the impersonation of one of the Anet Devs screwing up on the lore xD (19:00)
magicalmike had a realy good question in his video. where do the npc´s know the name from the dragon Mordremoth from? Well we as players can see the names of enemys and see blogposts and all that stuff....but did an Mordrem walked up to Kasmere and sayes: "hey, i am a servant of Mordramoth!" i doubt that ;-)
Ahhrg my brain hurts from that last part!! Here i am just trying to understand the basics, heh. All in all great video, really sparked my interest !
I personally like the idea that the middle is actually representative of another dragon. This dragon may have had it's magic split up somehow manifesting other dragons. When Zhaitan died, his magic was absorbed by this dragon. There could be other things along the line of the ley lines coming from the splitting up of magic so naturally the magic from Zhaitan would return back to the ley lines. Also, around the ley line magic stream in high tops you can see what appears to be bones circling them. Could be remnants of something more power.
I believe the theory on the dragons being "avatars" of the gods created to reduce the magic that had been accidentally given to the world via Abaddon, and restore it to the gods is awesome, it has always been my theory as well. And maybe thats the reason why the gods are in silence is because their avatars are doing their work for them.
With the Zhaitan confusion - what if the orb crushing into the center (being Zhaitan) symbolizes the DEATH of that Dragon and the collapse of its magic that now needs to be absorbed quickly by the other Dragons?
I really like this theory that the orbs are spheres/realms of magic and the dragons are conduits to them. That fits with how the six can both be alien to Tyria and connected to the dragons somehow. It's been shown in the games and speculated by various characters that the six aren't divine, but merely what happens to a creature when it consumes so much magical power. After all, that's literally what made Kormir into a "god." I think when the six entered Tyria "from beyond the mists," they weren't gods, they were just normal humans, probably rulers of whatever world they came from. And I think they came to Tyria because they found a way to tap into those realms of magic and steal power from them.
Great video, this really makes me excited to learn more about the story. Really would like to see more of these kind of videos. :).
I have a few questions after thinking about all of this for a while.
(1) The centaurs all seem to have earthy and nature themed magic powers. Some of them appear to have names that are similar in style to "Mordremoth". The ones here in Maguuma definitely appear to have some kind of religion or mysticism. They've developed similar beliefs to Ventari despite not seeming to know about him. The more hostile centaurs have direct connections to both of the targets of Mordremoth's stronghold attacks. In the Concordia instance you can connect that the centaur alliance has a real problem at present with the ruler of Kryta. In the Fort Salma instance it is easy to see that this area is hotly contested by centaur forces. This all gets me wondering what exactly the connections are between centaurs and Tyria's nature. Is there any more lore on their religious beliefs?
(2) If you're going to bring in a discussion of the gods connecting to dragons I have wondered for a while about something. Grenth presides over the Underworld and in Godlost swamp we have this event where the Shadow Behemoth is opening portals to the Underworld. Two of the three areas where SB's meta begins to open portals - which are then closed before SB will appear - have oakhearts and centaurs living there. The other area has a monastery which is challenged for control of this area by centaurs. So here you have trees, centaurs, and the human gods all put together in one thing. The wine that is brewed at the monastery also has a funny connection here. It seems like a throwaway comic event but great emphasis is placed on the sacred nature of the wine if you take the dialogues seriously. A prayer is even said over the wine which invokes the gods. Both preventing the theft of the wine/recovering it and guarding it during transport are part of the meta leading up to the Shadow Behemoth event. All of this makes me wonder exactly what the Shadow Behemoth represents. It looks a lot like a dragon but obviously is the same type of creature as the shades. Is there any lore to directly explain these connections and what the Shadow Behemoth is?
(3) In Lornar's Pass, presuming that the Underworld can be related via the line of thoughts so far, there are two interesting locations very close to each other and one more very interesting location not too far away. The first is Grenth's Gate. The second is The Dracon Steles. Finally there is the area involving all of the steam creatures. Eventually this zone, on top of having all of these things together, would be host to one of Scarlet's bigger plots and also a room where she lived and worked. Lornar's Pass also connects strongly with the dwarves and represents a large connection with the dragons via this. My question here is related to The Dracon Steles. Since all of this stuff ends up here together and this structure is one of the most intriguing things I've encountered simply exploring around the game then I would love to know the lore concerning The Dracon Steles.
(4) The Mists... Scarlet Briar's Toxic Alliance, specifically this, appeared in Eternal Battlegrounds and the Borderlands. Of course all sorts of things do appear in these maps but... this seems pretty noteworthy to me. I think a lot of the reaction to this was limited to whether it was simply a nice twist to the content on those maps for a while but it really seems to stand out the longer you think about it. The Mists themselves are something all of the citizens of Tyria are actively being called on to defend. It is said this is against invaders but I know of at least one effort by dragon minions to get into the Mists which occurs in the Norn personal story. If the Mists need defending and at least Jormag has tried to get in there from the dragons and Scarlet managed to put a presence there somehow then how do the Mists factor into the bigger picture?
(5) This brings up some very nice questions about the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal helping to reveal part of Scarlet's story. First, you have to presume that Arenanet were being honest in letting us help determine which new fractal we would get. Then you also have to think they did intend to progress some overall plot no matter which fractal we indirectly selected. Which means Scarlet might have also intersected with the Abaddon Fractal somehow. What would this connection be? Might it intersect with how magic is distributed since Abaddon is notoriously connected to this? Nevertheless, we did get some interesting connections from the Thaumanova Reactor and saw that they discovered ley lines and moved their research of "chaos energy" to the Thaumacore Inquiry Center in duh-duh-duh Toxal Bog. There you will find Thaumacore Energy Source as a skill challenge and "The entire Inquest facility is drawing power from the miasmic substance. Its nebulous form is unlike standard generators, and its supercharged particles are twice as potent." as accompanying text for the energy you're allowed to commune with. Then, what I find interesting is that Scarlet corrects the Inquest and says this is "dragon energy". Then you get this, "I don't know how to say this, but the energies in that facility are...becoming something. It's an anomaly I can't explain." and if you follow the comments this means that "dragon energy" is becoming "something". Which brings us to the Thaumanova Anomaly and something I remembered after seeing the vision in Omadd's machine. Keep in mind that this is a bit of a stretch but: wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Cosmic_Instability.png ??? This is one of the abilities which the Anomaly has. It's called Cosmic Instability and, with a little imagination, looks suggestively like it would correspond to the six orbs and a central energy of some kind. Soooooo... question five is about communing with places of power. Assuming the PC has 100% world completion they will have communed with this place of power and thereby with at least this one instance of "dragon energy". This dragon energy becomes the Thaumanova Anomaly somehow and we have apparently communed with that same energy. Additionally, I now have in my home instance a Krait Obelisk Shard which I have communed with and completed an achievement that had me commune with a whole lot more of them. An achievement that I completed during a part of Scarlet's story when she had recruited two factions to become the Toxic Alliance. Now, in that same zone, Mordremoth attacks Fort Salma and Belinda has some interesting dialogue suggesting the reason why he would be attacking that location. So what exactly are players doing when they commune with these places of power?
(6) I've heard from the beginning that dragons consume energy. This is frequently mentioned from the perspective of season 1 characters. I also watched and interfered with the collection of magic munchies apparently being brought to Zhaitan via the personal story. Scarlet is being touted as being a lot smarter than most and her studies are turning out to be major breakthroughs. She then says that there is such a thing as "dragon energy". Well, Mordremoth appears to be tapping into the ley lines directly. If the ley lines are dragon energy then you have an odd geometric question. The lines extend out far beyond the dragon. If they are coming from him then where is he sending energy? If they are going toward him from something else then is Scarlet wrong about dragon energy? I know you saw some interesting presentations of the ley lines in map form. They seem to be deriving from or going toward dragons. This goes against the idea that Mordremoth becomes active and goes to a ley line to start tapping into the waypoint system. It looks like he would already be conveniently located to just do this. Then there are Taimi's comments suggesting that Mordremoth is literally personally traveling via the waypoint system. This makes more sense if you interpret it as Mordremoth is traveling via the ley lines and the waypoints are just coincidentally located along them. It also makes more sense with Taimi's dialogue. However, Taimi is getting a lot of her info from Scarlet and thus you come back to Scarlet's interpretation either being correct and then the ley lines are a giant network of dragon energy across Tyria or she is wrong and this would be an instance of the dragons feeding off of something like Tyria's magical energy. Then let's stop for a moment because this is the usual explanation and Tyria is infused with magic accordingly but magic and "dragon energy" are often used interchangeably and the usual explanation also involves dragons balancing out magic in their cycle of waking and sleeping. So if dragons are consuming magic and draining it from Tyria but magic is also dragon energy and it leaves the dragons as well and is distributed into Tyria then... while the dragons have a lot of the magic they remain asleep... Waaaaaaiiitttt... Okay, what is taking magic from the dragons? The human gods did something like this once but they "left the world". The seers tried to keep magic from the dragons? So maybe the bloodstones have some connection? Jeff Grubb mentioned they might influence future stories once upon a time. The bloodstone inscriptions are also evocative of the orb vision visually: wiki.guildwars.com/images/3/3e/Bloodstone_Inscription.png Although the pattern appears rotated. You could also list the Source under the Cathedral of Verdance as a way that we know magic can act against dragon corruption. This was a type of magical distribution. All of these things actually have a lot of interesting connections. There's the tie-in with the Krytan royal family and Maguuma as a location for the bloodstones. There's the tie-in for LA with the seers, the Krytan royal family, Scarlet's recent activities, a mirroring back to Salma retaking the city, thus a tie-in to Fort Salma with Salma's name, Ellen Kiel might be "E" and just happens to have a similar appearance to Salma (let the conspiracy theories fly on both of those), the White Mantle and the Shining Blade still factor in with special focus on the White Mantle doing some weird things right next to Toxal Bog presently, Melandru maybe has something to do with Mordremoth... it starts to kind of just go on like this. Finally we get to the main thing that obviously was the catalyst for so much of the rest. From the wiki, "One of these was the Central Transfer Chamber which housed the original network of asura gates and was built over the hibernating Elder Dragon Primordus. The network was powered by magic seeping out of Primordus, whom the asura mistook for a statue while it slept." and "In 1078 AE, Primordus's dragon champion, The Great Destroyer stirred from beneath one of the asura's citadels and *used the gate network* to send swarms of destroyers throughout the Depths." AND "Now, few asura held any interest in returning to the depths. Instead, the asura have extended their network of gates, powered by different means, and waypoints across Tyria over the years..." So is it reasonable to ask whether the Asura have accidentally thrown a wrench into the cogs of the Eternal Alchemy machine and brought the dragons crashing down not only on their own heads but everyone else's as well? I'd also love to know just how old the Asuran race is.
Sorry for so much at once!
You said that it wouldn't make sense if it was the Zhaitan orb that took over tyria, but last year we got an update where Tequatl the sunless grew in strength, and I do believe that somewhere, either on a livestream or a blog post, I heard/saw a dev say there was reason for why Tequatl gained this new. This could make sense if we did not kill Zhaitan, and he is somehow recovering for his revenge in the future, and the reason why we currently have to play with Mordremoth, is that Scarlet just woke him. Another thing is that there still is an undiscovered point of interest in Arah, which could be where Zhaitan is recovering.
I know some of this may be far fetched, but I do believe even if you can destroy this in a second, that it might be worth mentioning
I have a theory about what the white glow in the center (tyria) is: Each orb seems to represent an element, including Zhaitan, who represents darkness and death. Perhaps Tyria is the orb of light and life, and the pale tree is either actually an elder dragon, or Tyria is unique in that it is the only world with an "ambassador" who is not a dragon. Perhaps the world of life and light has been in control for a very long time, and Scarlet wanted to finally make a change in order to evolve the universe.
Thanks for the videos. Well thought out theories. I've had the theory about gods (which came from the mists? Another world?) wrestling for power with dragons, which are native. Moreover, gods and dragons have distinctly similar domains - perhaps these are nodes through which magic flows that allow it to be harvested or directed.
On the note of the Pale Tree - I think the overlap with Mordremoth's domain is too sweet to ignore. Also, when all the races are discussing whether to attack Mordremoth and wavering, Mordremoth's minions attack and sway everyone towards war. Convenient? Wild theory but what if the Pale Tree -is- Mordremoth. Why would she want the other races to attack her? Well, perhaps she wants them united so that they can be used against another dragon later. There is nothing of importance in the Maguuma Jungle and it's just an excuse to get them organized.
@WoodenPotatoes isn't it possible that Kormir is the black and white because she took the spot of Abbadon God of Secret and became the Godess of Truth (AKA black background with white that has been added "resenly")
Personally believe in the realm theory but still interesting prospect.
The Zebra Goddess!
Zebra God as next playible race confirmed!!!
a few other ideas
1: 18:00 or so, if mordremoth could wake up 4th, yet us not know about it until now, then there is nothing saying that kraokatoric didn't wake up before zhaitan, but just dozed about for a while first while zhiatan woke up and got right to business. this would probably work like primordis did in gw1. hes not really awake, but hes waking up.
2: what if the order is reversed, zhaitan does wake up, but he dies, and that's the crash. he became part of tyria like the orb did.
3: what if the dragons are the source of the "expanding" volume of magic in tryia. what if the dragons eat magic up, then as they slumber it leaks out of them into the leylines, we tyrian races tap into it, so the dragons wake up to reclaim it, then slumber again. or maybe the they take it to their own realms idea works.
4: what about the speed at which the orbs move. the purple orb lights up before the black one, but the black one takes off while the purple one does not. could this be the activity level.
In Dry Top, you can find a scrap of paper probably written by the Master of Peace that tells us that dragons do not destroy magic, but save it up within themselves. This would go against the idea that the Elder Dragons transfer the magical energy to another realm. Unlike the gods, dragons also don't seem to have a strong connection to the mists. During their long sleep, they still physically stayed in the material world.
In line with the idea that the Gods and the Elder Dragons are facets of the same basic elemental (in a matter of speaking) forces, what if the Dragons consume the magic of Tyria for whatever purpose, perhaps just to preserve balance, and the Gods then come each time to heal the world (I remember you saying something about how the Gods had come to Tyria in the wake of an ancient threat now vanished in one of the GW1 story summary videos). Each time the Gods (and possibly Dragons) continue to exist in these alternative realms of existence and consistently change their nature and associated attributes (just how the element of water was shuffled over to Lyssa after Kormir usurped Abbadon). That might explain how the Dragons and Gods once lined up, but because of certain events, such as Kormir's ascension, these have been thrown out of balance which accelerated the return on the Elder Dragons. Just a thought, probably way too complicated and flawed but...
Someone has probably pointed this out to you by now but there is a direct statement in the comments on the LS2 Entanglement description in the Story Journal after you've finished the episode which says "I unwittingly entered the device and experienced my own cosmic vision - one that included the Pale Tree and a handful of mysterious orbs representing Elder Dragons". Of course this is the PC's own interpretation of their vision and nothing says this perspective is 100% accurate but the comments are there from Arenanet giving a seemingly solid foundation to this idea that the orbs are dragons. I find it interesting that the character then goes on to say that they must speak with the Pale Tree about this. There is a visual correlation between the white light of the center orb and the Pale Tree itself. Then there is the fact that the PC, no matter what race, has been guided by the Pale Tree in the past while fighting Zhaitan. In the vision it would seem that the PC floats into the representation of the Pale Tree which then transitions to being the center orb. When my character emerged from their vision they described their own person as being approached by a dragon at the end. Since I wasn't then certain that the orbs were dragons I initially interpreted this differently. Now it might appear that something about the center orb also represents the hero. This gives a little more intrigue concerning the question.
As a side note, I had a very amusing reaction to being called "Boss" and "The Boss" so many times during this episode. For a moment there I was almost convinced I was playing Saints Row. XD
Very much enjoyed your video! You have a wonderful humor and actually pretty thorough analysis. It's certainly interesting to listen to and contemplate the storytelling. One of the best things about a good story is having someone to discuss it with and watching your video is definitely carrying that feeling for me. Keep up your crazy, flawed theories! They are very entertaining! :)
Another interesting piece of evidence for the dragons bringing magic back to their world is the unused Fissure of Woe gw2 map having Zhaithans' body on it.
So based on LW3, that is actually Zhaitan crashing into Tyria and releasing all of the magic, and the plants we see immediately after that is Mordremoth very quickly absorbing the magic (since Mordremoth is the closest physically to Zhaitan). Assuming they didn't try to retcon it, this means that they knew the plot of LW3 already in 2014, even before Heart of Thorns was announced!
thought of something what if each orb is one of the main races in the world.. when you make a new character each race glows a color: Charr - Red, Human - Yellow, Norn - Blue, Asura - Purple, Sylvari - Green, This leave 1 orb White this could be 1 of 3 races Kodan, Largos or Tengu as white could be snow,water (blue is Ice i think) or Wind and the center changes depending on which dragon is most active or biggest threat to the dragons which at the moment are Mordremoth and the Sylvari.
Hey WP,
If you pay a visit to Marshwatch Haven Waypoint (North-East of Bloodtide Coast) you can see how dangerous the vines actually are. Just popping out of the ground straight to their target. Disconnecting from the bigger plant and still managing to work.
;)
I like that theory that ties the 6 gods with the 6 elder dragons, in like a yin-yang sort of way, one consumes magic, and the other one uses it, that could explain why the gods seem so distant, they just needed to recharge their batteries.
It kind of fits the recent magic theory that when an elder dragon dies, it's magic are released back into the world. It explains why the zaitan's orb smash into the world.
About the Pale Tree connection with the comment. I want to believe a theory someone posted on the forums saying that the machine is still based on sylvari physiology hence why we're hearing these voices. Especially as a non-sylvari. You said it yourself that Scarlet also tampered with it but at the same time it's more a fragment of what she experienced that we're drifting through.
In 2019. The lighting up as they are killed is in order. Thats interesting
I'll just regard each of the 6 orbs not just as elder dragons only, but also the new domains of magic (since the 4 of gw1 are probably changed now). life x death, fire x air, water x ice... or something like that? Then I'd say the gods don't necessarily need to be in 1 specific spot, but they are specialized in some of these magic domains more or less. They could even move along these domains, like @
WoodenPotatoes suggested.
ps. I've also tried to couple the gods to a specific spot, and had some other ideas: if the black (later glowing green) was Mordremoth, the the coupling with Lyssa is less weird: mordremoth was the dragon with the magic domain of 'mind' not just 'nature'. If you put it like that, then Melandru is in the wrong spot again, because he's at Zhiathan's. But what if you put Grenth on his spot (he's not only god of ice, but also god of death, which makes sense). But then Melandru would be on Jormag's spot??? I've also though of dwayna as goddess of life = mordremoth, and kormir goddess of order (which might be jormag, because he vs DSD = order/structure vs chaos/fluidity, like water molecules ordered as ice vs fluid). Stretching it pretty far now... However you put it, you'll never completely fix the puzzle.
Really interesting thoughts, but I just have to say this. When looking at the scene with the orbs. If you look closely at the top left corner, left to the blue orb, there is something that looks like a dragons head. If you look closely in the bottom right corner next to the "white" orb, there is something that looks like a person either looking at you or to the right.. I might just be seeing things.
Holy cow, does this mean Mordremoth was awake all this time and that he was planning against the Pale Tree since it's birth. All he needed was to lie in wait and corrupt one of the Slyvari to give him enough power infect all of Tyria and destroy the Pale Tree with leyline energy? That's one cunning dragon.
OR maybe it was by coincident that a Slyvari peaked into the Eternal Alchemy and Mordremoth just took advantage of it or maybe Scarlet was already corrupted by mordremoth since birth somehow with curiosity and that she was destined to do what she did now.
Perhaps on the theory of Zhaitan is that he was not really defeated and he will come back one day. Technically we saw him fall into the unknown clouds, an area he pretty much infected or created. If there was Zhaitan's Mouth and Eyes then perhaps the brain and body can be two separate entities too. If he's the aspect of undead living, then in a sense he's not really defeated or rather his essence became something else for the time being until he recovers.
What about the placement of those orbs? If you look left to right, Fire is across from Ice, Jungle (life) is across from (un)Death, and Deep Sea is across from Crystal (Fluidity vs. Rigidity? I don't really know enough about either of those 2 to say what they stand for.). Zhaitan is dead. Maybe he was keeping Mordremoth in check like Jormag and Primordus could be keeping each other balanced? Might make more sense if we knew more about Bubbles and Kralky.
The green orb is clearly Zhaïtan, and the final movement shows death energies overflowing in Tyria, with vines appearing to signal that Mordremoth was the first to profit from the dragon of death's demise.
This is a crazy theory, and I think it might even make sense. Back in GW1, the mission Dragon's Lair. You fight the 6 Facets, BUT each facet is in a differently-looking area, so what if those areas are small chunks of the "dragon realms" ? Just my addition to this theory, I know it's crazy, but it might make sense.
From the player story: "once before I gave this sword to a beloved son" when giving Caladbolg to Trahearne. It seems like this supports the idea that this is some sort of cycle and has happened before in some form.
Never mind. Just read more about it. It's explained in the sylvari story.
We now know that the green orb was representing Zhaitan and the black was Mordremoth (or rather their magic). Once an elder dragon is killed, their magic is released into the world. Each orb doesn't represent the dragon as much as the magic that the dragons possess. We theorize this in Living World Season 3 Episode 2, and it is verified in Path of Fire chapter 6.
Love the realms/dragons/gods/conduit/Abbadon//Paletree/etc idea. Sooo cool, you're kind of a genius WP, even if this all turns out to be completely different. Really hope it is something like that, cause things would get a whole lot more interesting.
To draw some parallels plot wise from gw1 to gw2, the pale tree serves the same role as glint does story wise: the prophetic character that opens the eyes of the protagonist to the bigger picture surrounding their destiny
i just realized how much the pale tree sketch looks like an embryo.
I think the ley lines are really the key to the eternal alchemy. Whoever controls the ley lines, rules Tyria. Tyria's magic seems to be replenishing over time, while the other realms's magic is decreasing, so it wouldn't be a far fetch to say that the central realm is leeching magic from the others.
All the dragons want the center spot, but only one can control it at a time. When the dragons rise, they are not only trying to eat up as much magic for their own realm as they can, they're also trying to take over Tyria entirely. Scarlet's plan was not only to wake up Mordremoth, but to also to help it with locating and taking over the ley lines. This is what I think the green orb taking over the middle was meant to represent.
So taking this chain of argument to its logical conclusion, there is a 7th dragon in the middle of Tyria, who is the creator of all life as we know it, the pale tree is most likely its champion, and we are the minions protecting this realm.
One thing i felt like you missed here, when the green orb flew into the centre, the spinning of the rings around the tyria orb stopped, and green... mould sort of shit, covered the screen. Could that represent something too? maybe some vision of mordremoth effectively jamming the cycle somehow?
Lot of interesting stuff to think about. On that whole "Dragon=God" theory, I never liked that one either. IMO, it's either a coincidence that there are 6 gods and 6 dragons or (this one might be a bit of a stretch) the elder dragons are supposed to be the demonic counterparts of the gods, such as Balthazar vs. Primordus, or Grenth vs Zhaitan (and/or Jormag).
Another thing I just thought up, and I think someone else mentioned in the comments below is that, assuming the orbs represent the elder dragons, the reason Zhaitan's orb lights up after Kralkatorrik's orb instead of the other way around is that the death dragon could be coming back to life, or "reawakening" if you will, sometime in the future (most likely through Tequatl) which is why those two orbs seemingly light up in the wrong order.
oh more awesome lore!
Just after I finished today's episode of Final Fantasy! Love it!
Magic in Tyria seems to have a correlation with color. Magic gives off light in specific colors. (Represented in the cut scene as red/orange, yellow/green, green, light blue, blue, and violet.) This magical spectrum is present in Tyria and each dragon eats the corresponding magic related to its domain. However, my belief is, the Pale Tree has been absorbing this magic as well. It's a plant (a very large one with big deep roots), gaining its nutrients and sustenance from Tyria itself. It has been drawing in all these magics, hence why Tyria is represented by pure white light, the combination of all light in the magical 'spectrum' as absorbed by the Pale Tree. My guess is the tree has been eating magic and doesn't want to lose its food supply if the dragons drain the world, so its helping the races combat them to preserve itself. It is now a physical manifestation of the planet's spirit and will.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW EXCITED I AM FOR THIS!!!! AAAAHHH!!!
I like the video, we've been saying this for months now in my circle of friends. I do believe you have the picture at 28:00 or so wrong though and if you cross reference the Guild Wars wiki gods page it is much easier to match up. Bubbles top left with Kormir/Facet of Spirit/Elements. Mordremoth middle left with Melandru/Facet of Nature/Creation, Primordus lower left with Balthazar/Facet of Strenth/Destruction, Kralkatorrik top right with Lyssa/Facet of Chaos/Illusion, Zhaitan middle right with Grenth (Dhuum etc.)/Facet of Death/Darkness, Jormag lower right with Dwayna/Facet of Light/Existence.
Possible that the Dragons, Mordremoth and Zhaitan, awakened earlier as shown, but got up at the dates of "awakening" to the races of Tyria, since they can't predict the actual date of awakening, the moment the dragon opens it's eyes.
For Mordremoth awakened early, but wasn't strong enough to rise up from underground resting place.
Zhaitan too might have spent some time underground, until decided that it's time to get out of his lair.
Deep sea dragon awakened early too, due to the deep sea dwelling races, like Krait and Quaggan, trying to flee north from unending ocean...
You have to remember we didn't see all the vision, as we were pulled out of it.
The first orb that hit the centre probably was Zhaitan because he was the first threat on Tyria in GW2. if we had continued the vision that orb may have been ejected and then the 2nd green orb landed in the middle to represent Mordremoth current corruption.
The vision doesn't have to represent what is going on currently in the world, as it's just a vision. That could be why Scarlet wanted to stop Mordremoth because when she saw this vision she seen that Zhaitain was defeated and then saw Mordremoth was 2nd to corrupt Tyria.
if we were to see the whole vision then we may see all the orbs land in the centre one by one and see what order we are going to face the dragons, but of course they wouldn't show us it all now.
Remember, the vision is to see the future of Tyria, not necessarily what is going on in the world at the current time you enter the machine.
Very nicely made theory.
... Definitely worth hearing it up.