BEIN Sports Satellite Receiver, No Signal From Dish. Can We Fix It?
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- A lot of local sports bars use these BEIN sports satellite boxes to show football and other sports. There are various reasons for this but one is they can receive Premiere League and Champions League games with English Commentary while the local broadcasters encrypt the audio in Spanish!. But there are some problems using these boxes. The main one is that the viewing card is paired to the box and if the box goes faulty, you can't move the card to another box so you lose all the remaining subscription you paid for. So the only option is to fix them.
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Richard
Since the box is looking for a firmware update, I'd check to see that the CPU is loading from ROM. I also agree with @teslasapple about pin 8 being pulled low; either a diode shorted or the chip has failed short.
As a radio amateur, I found this video very interesting. Sorry I cant help with the diagnosis though. Many thanks again 👍
Hi Richard. The unknown chip may be what is generally called an LNA (Low Noise Amplifier) in the form of a MMIC (Monolithic Microwave Integrated Circuit). It is meant to amplify the 1-2 GHz incoming signal (maybe 20-30dB gain) withe a low Noise Figure, say 1dB or less, to feed the receiver contained in the "CPU" with a signal whose SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) is almost constant, I mean stabilized to guarantee that the the digital signal is demodulated by the DSP (Digital Signal Processor) with a low and constant Error Probability, indipendently from signal fading, chosen channel etc. This LNA is biased through that wounded inductor on the left of pin 1 and probably a couple of ferrite beads. Please, check with your multimeter. It is not uncommon that these MMICs have a "doubled" GND PIN (the two ones connecter together and to GND). Morover, very often they have a single positive bias voltage, connected to the RF Input via a kind of diplexing network. Let me know if you can confirm my guess using your multimeter, since on my phone I cannot see much of the details needed. The choise of MMIC form of the LNA is due to lower the cost and to the wide bandwidth (one octave) needed. Regards from Italy.
Yeah two pins connected to ground, one in and one out. But it looked like it has no DC supply voltage as both in and out connect via low value caps. I must admit I did not check for voltage on those pins and will do so.
😅 Addendum: I was wrong. The bias voltage to the LNA is probably fed from the network on the RIGHT side of PIN 1...not LEFT. But this can be easily checked with a multimeter, directly on PIN 1. My guess is 12V or 5V.
It's not really relevant to the problem, but in your explanation of the LNB, you left out the mixer. The mixer accepts the signals from the antennas in the LNB and the LO as inputs and mixes them through heterodyning to give us an output that is the difference of the 2 frequencies.
Like the idea of the single channel with the "Learn" playlist. Seems like it would be easier to manage libraries for you and minimize fragmenting the audience count into similar sub-sets.
Good question I think. Good luck whichever direction you decide to go.
Can't wait part 2 -if possible- to see what's the problem with this device . thanx for sharing!
*** - You should have swapped the UC2 chip (16 pin controller)... it has nothing to do with the tuner.. that's bare bones in consideration.. u could have saved alotta time... *OR* it has to so with the firmware update.. which on bottom left of board i see 2 UART connectors... you could manually update the firmware.. it's either the firmware or the UC2 chip
* - Also there appears to be a TSOP8 (8 pin flash chip) in middle bottom of board.. that is what prolly holds the Serial # & other info... you could prolly switch that onto a good board and run it fine.. even bring back blacklisted working units from broke good ones... could prolly even clone the chips.. have 2 boxes running (*cough* hypothetically that is)... something to look into... swap flash chip & be done
Chip looks like Infineon’s 44:43 BFP640 RF transistor. R4s is the marking and the 2 pins you’re reading as ground are in fact ground pins. Bottom left pin is input and top right is output.
Thats the one! (BFP640 RF transistor.)
Nice video and super explanation. The 4 pin device is an RF transistor so I don't think the problem comes from the device. I would check more around the LNB power supply and the control trace from the cpu. Maybe the track is shorted. Anyway thanks for the great content
A while back you created a simple testing device for the TL431 and I think that was rather nifty. I’ve since seen videos of you creating really nice pcbs and I thought it would be a good idea if you revisited that tester and created a pcb for it. Maybe even with an onboard volt meter to make is less cumbersome. We’d get the opportunity to buy another pcb you create and you’d get more content for videos. A win-win in my opinion. Hopefully you see my comment and take this into consideration.
Cheers
Yeah I could do that 🙂
I remember in the early 90’s someone gave me a faulty box that I had to keep a ladder by the side of the dish and a 10mm spanner… I could pop up and turn the LNB 90 degrees to switch between Horizontal and Vertical 😂
That reduced the amount of pointless channel zapping..
The 4 pin device is likely to be RF transistor, providing gain to amplify from very low signals received, into the board probably to next stages of IF...
I don’t think it’s ever a failure, as fault finding is a process that can be refined, ie it’s completely new! So as you tackle or approach things, you learn something, how it comes apart, what holds it, what controls it, then when you, with your audience have completed part 2, you or we can arrive at a solution, like a mechanic asks you what’s happening with the vehicle, he will have as you do, a multitude of tried and tested solutions, but there is always the first, that doesn’t follow the pattern.
I had this on my 2003 XJ6 and it was the headlights, after quite a lot of trial and error, it was found that an inline wire had been trapped and was intermittent, if the next day the guy gets a similar issue, he’s going to go straight to checking that point, hours saved. So never a failure only solutions that take less time the next time.
I believe it is either a firmware or a CPU issue.
I would try the easiest first which is to swap the memory chip with the working one (it seems to be close to the 3.3V coil). This should not be a problem for the SIM card because it should be paired with the processor serial number and not the firmware chip which can be easily modified.
And if it doesn't change anything, I would reflow the processor. If you type bein humax reflow on youtube, you will find a video with another problem solved by a reflow.
At the "bga solder joint lotery", you've got the 22Khz signal in this case.
Hi Richard! Greate video ! it will be interesting wach next video on this topics! Thank you!
The 22KHz tone is controlled by a setting in the menu. Some dishes just use on/off (for high and low band selection). Some don't use any tone. Some have built in motors and switches that can be set by the tone switching on/off in bursts. The protocol is called diseqc.
This receiver uses a universal LNB so it needs the 22KHz tone
An universal lnb without motor or smart switch would either have continuous tone or no tone. Not a burst of tones.
And is a universal lnb selected in the menu? The working box is setup to operate with a disecq switch, which allows you to connect the box to several dishes. In case you don't use adisecq switch you should disable disecq and choose universal lnb. A wrong selection can be a reason why the 22 khz tone does not work.
@@LearnElectronicsRepair Yes, but I think what kriswillems is trying to explain is that diseqc and 22khz tone are separate things. Yes, diseqc commands are modulated onto 22khz tones, but 22khz tone can also be used separately as simple on or off switching. Diseqc is typically used where you need more complex switching between 3 or more dishes/LNBs or to send commands to motors to move the dish to different orbital locations. So, if your going to use 22khz on and off switching you typically have to disable diseqc and vise versa, otherwise the 2 may conflict with each other.
Also if the receiver has a setting in the menus to select a "universal" LNB, and a separate setting to enable 22khz switching, you may need to turn 22khz switching off when a universal LNB is selected, because when a universal LNB is selected 22khz switching is implicitly used by the LNB and is done automatically by the receiver based on the frequency of the transponder it's trying to tune. I know that sounds counterintuitive but the 22khz setting in the menus is probably intended for a separate 22khz switch which is separate and discrete from the LNB. For example with my big dish that I use for FTA I have in the past used 22khz switches to switch between a seperate C band and ku band LNB.
The only other thing, I can think of is that the transponder/satellite map may be out of date or corrupt and it's looking for transponders that don't exist or are located on a different sat. A default map is usually included in the firmware, which might explain why it's looking for a firmware update. Anyway, if definitely sounds like a software or configuration problem, and not an actual hardware problem.
Exactly. It is most likely a settings problem. If the CPU is not instructing the 22KHz to to switch like one would like, but the software is running, it's almost always a settings problem. If the box is not tuning to the default transponder, it might help to download the firmware from a working box and upload it to a non-working box. Many brands allow serial downloads/uploads. Another thing one can try is to manually set the default transponder settings or at least check they are the same as on a working box. One should compare all the settings between a working and non-working box, and the working box needs to be set up for a universal LNB too (which does not seem to be the case here - it is setup for diseqc). If the default transponder is encrypted it might be useful to check the smart card contacts. @@stefanl5183
Another common problem with ageing LNB's (No Signal Error on Set Top Box) is the decrease in Signal Amplitude that the LNB provides as it ages, nothing can be done about that, it is an inherent issue with the process of making these GHz MMIC so they are generally speaking only good for about 10 years...
Other option without knowing the part number could be pin diodes in an encapsulation...I.e. providing antenna matching for a given frequency for a given supplied voltage?
Heya, this kind (satelite signal reciever) of elektronics I haven't seen till know so I'm very eager to learn this for sure it will not make me dommer lol
Nice one R, no tech input forthcoming from me, but still a great vid. Ta.
it would be great if they showed 1) how the phone starts or what the controller is for 2) Where the standby voltages come from and how they are formed 3) How the batteries are charged, what the charger is for 4)The principle of operation of the PWM controller 💯👍👍👍
Is this comment meant for a different video?
Yes, if there is such an opportunity, it is very interesting and useful to me and to many more, since I am engaged in repairing phones and I have little experience, it would help me a lot since I learned a lot of useful things from your videos for myself, thank you for your work and for the experience you gave me waiting for me, you are number one by training, excuse me, I know very little English, I hope you have at least suffered something that I wrote Thank you
@@user-vz6bn6jl7v Oh sorry, I don't do phone repair anyway
Hi Richard if you want to replace the do. It from heat on the other side. It is more easier
39:10
First part looks like a pre amp fet(or a if mixer) and the second part like a impedance transformer .
Meassurements from a dso would be helpfull.
I think you gave up on checking the enable signal on pin 8 too soon - if the data line between the cpu and pin 8 on the other chip is shorted to earth, you'll never see an enable signal, so worth checking every component on that line
Everywhere I looked it says that the LNB is powered by DC via the cable, so is that 4 legged device a low noise amplifier that actually has a DC voltage on it ? If it is and those 2 pins are connected which are not in the signal path, then there is your short i believe.
Could have used some low melt solder on that RF shielding, would have popped right off easily, someone had to say it 😂
Interesting i knew about the sat signals but .. can you explain how a sat transmitter works or maybe make a simple one to experiment ? thanks Richard
Pin 8 being pulled low? What’s the diode readings like between the two boards on this pin 8? 🤷🏼♂️
Maybe you check whether the tonectrl signal is coming out of the CPU correctly. Perhaps there's a broken trace or faulty component somewhere on the line? I don't have high hopes, but it might be worth a shot. Also, did you ever check the voltage rails on the repair one? I saw you do it on the scrap one, and then you went to the tuner on both of them. Or is my memory failing me?
BTW: The zig-zag lines in the tuner area of the PCB are probably some controlled impedance stuff. I mean, it's high frequency signals, right? So basically witchcraft.
One can disable the 22 khz by selecting the wrong lnb type in the menu.... Has Richard checked the settings?
I did check Tonectrl signal from the CPU, I definitely showed checking that in the video 🙄 I did check all the voltage rails on the faulty one, they are same as the 'good' one. Sorry if I omitted that from the video
@@LearnElectronicsRepair I saw you checking the signal at the A8296 chip. I was wondering about the other end. What if the CPU is actually sending the signal but it gets lost on the way?
I took a look at the A8296 datasheet myself. Both at page 2 and 19 where they show the block diagram and the typical application circuit, it seems to me like tonectrl is supposed to be tied to 5V via a resistor. And then presumably the CPU pulls it to ground to signal something. So if the CPU isn't doing anything, shouldn't it be at logic high? But when you measure it, it's low (48:42). Could that data line be shorted to ground somewhere (either inside the A8296 or elsewhere)? Or is the CPU trying to enable the tone but the A8296 has failed and doesn't respond properly so the CPU never releases the line?
@@LearnElectronicsRepairI think Foobar is noting the same as I was. TONECTRL is an input and its not making it to pin 8 on the A8296. OUT is @ pin 3 LNB. Just going by what I see on the datasheet, you have them hands on, so. Also in the video you said you presume all the power was good because the unit turns on. If you went back and checked all good good my bad. Good luck look forward to the conclusion
Hi richard.
The Card Slot and the pins inside always make problems. Try to clean them or bend them upwards.
That does not cause no signal from the dish
@@LearnElectronicsRepair if i understood you right. There is no 25 khz signal. I thought maybe the cpu does not initiate at all because of the Card.
@@Godunjoify Yeah there is no 22KHz signal and this is because the CPU never requests one to be sent to the LNB. The CPU is running, I get menus and channel lists on screen. I suspect the fact the faulty box behaves differently, switching the 12V/18V to the LNB but not sending 22KHz diseqc commands is more down to it likely having different firmware. These boxes normally work with no card inserted, but you can only view the Free To Air channels
Looks like a BFP640
I would be suspicious of any big flat chip soldered to a PCB. If you watch GPU repairs those things crack off the PCB all the time, so is it a BGA.
Maybe inject a signal and see if it gets to the processor.
Try to reflow the cpu if it's a bga chip
When the 14 or 18V is overloaded it will switch off and re-attempt after a while. Is that what you see?
On site? No. The owner has another Bein receiver of the same model that works fine on that dish. This one shows no signal. The problem started intermittently then became permanent. The dish is aligned perfectly and the LNB is good. I've been told the dish at the workshop will be fixed on Monday, but I'm not holding my breath
Спасибо
also like @Foobar_The_Fat_Penguin said you have not checked the powerlines maybe you get no power to the cpu or any other line
I did check all the power lines, 1.5V, 1.05V, 5V, 3.3V, 12V I showed that in the video yeah?
If there was no power to the CPU, there would be no GUI on-screen afaik. On both the scrap device and the one he's trying to repair, a GUI is visible,