The fact that an 18 year old S2000 continues to be reviewed against new products really says something about how special the S2000 is. It might not win every time, but it is a benchmark vehicle…and a damn good sports car!
Agreed, took 18+ years for the miata to try to catch up to it. Honda went full passion and engineering with every aspect of the S2000, no limit, high budget. Definitely a great vehicle if you find a good and cared for example. 2007 S2000 MRSP $34,250 ($51,728.37 in today's money) 2007 Miata MRSP $20,585 ($31,098.88 in today's money)
@@dannyphamous The miata was never trying to catch up to it. Thats was Mazdas best formula, not to look at others. The Miata will always be in its own, they still sell it! that being said id rather have a s2000 over my miata, because im a honda fan boy at heart. The miata just had the upgrades it neeeded to stick with modern times.
The s2000 didnt hold up very well though. Its a fun car to drive still and i still love them but the miata was a budget sports car and the s2000 was a porsche boxter competitor in the 90s. The boxter eventually outpaced the s2000 before the s2000 even stopped production. The fact that a budget miata and BRZ/GR86 now outpaces it shows that the s2000 isnt worth its price anymore now that even cheap cars can keep up/outpace it now. Keep in mind that an S2000 sold today would be closer to the price of a porsche boxter(but likely less than one to be competetive) at around 60k-70k for it. Impressive for the Miata and BRZ to perform at a 60k car level, not really impressive for an S2000 to perform at a 25-32k car level.
Something I noticed with the ND on stock suspension is that if you’re slightly more aggressive with your steering inputs than other sports cars it tends to set quite quickly in a satisfying way
Since the Toyota and Subaru twins come with Eyesight for model year 2024, try disabling pre-collision braking (PCB). If pre-collision braking is on, then my 2024 GR86 Trueno Edition dispays a bar graph for oil temperature. When PCB is turned off, I instead am presented with a numerical temperature display. Perhaps this works as well on the 2024+ BRZ.
Good move.! The Honda S2000 was a truly great car in its day.! Reliable etc and the drive experience was par none. but it's 20 years old. And maintenance of age and wear and tear let alone any abuse from previous owners is going to come due. You are paying close to a new car price for the Subaru or Toyota or the Mazda your pick, I lean ND3 Break any of them in properly and you got something on the toy or Sube I would pull the pan and make sure the rtv wasn't overdone. Little labor to ease anxiety for engine on track days.. From a mechanic of 45 years
Unless you're not going to modify it, the Sport is the way to go for the Miata IMHO. Most of the things that need changing to make it a real canyon shredder are what you're paying extra for in the club and GT models, and are still not quite up to the task. A Sport, with a set of sway bars, an Ohlins or Koni set of shocks, a good set of springs, and an OS Giken diff really transform the car into a rocket, and you save yourself near 3000 bucks doing it all. Which you can spend on a cool set of light wheels and a Roadster Sport exhaust.
Haha, I have an order for the exact same package as you. Mine is coming in a few weeks. I'm going to throw on coilovers (NOT Ohlins which will make it even less edgy and more cushioned) and a race exhaust
The fact that 18 years later we have two cars that are competitive with the S2000 with modern safety and regulations, modern tech for half the inflation adjusted price (new to new, not new to used) is nuts. The MX5 is even much lighter!!! These two cars are the exception, not the rule. The trend has been heavier and less driver focused.
Something that still blows my mind is they went from 4 lug wheels to 5 lugs with the NC then back to 4 lugs with the ND which probably helped their goal of replicating the 1989 2200-2300lb lightness.
The s2000 didnt hold up. The miata was a budget sports car and the s2000 was a porsche boxter competitor in the 90s. Later versions of the boxter outpaced the s2000 before the s2000 even stopped production. The fact that a budget miata and BRZ/GR86 now outpaces it shows that the s2000 has fallen so far back that even cheap cars can keep up/outpace it now.
Forgot to ask in previous comment, what makes BRZ better to learn on than Miata? I own a 2023 BRZ and plan to get Miata in future, so far 6 track days on BRZ and I am slow learner.
The miata is a decent bit of kit, it’s certainly up there now. Becoming quite a pest in the sprints and hill climb vs me in my old S2000.😂😠 Great honest review - I normally can’t stand this kind of video!
Yet another GT for the MX-5. Loved this comparison, but damn. Can we get a Club SOMEWHERE on UA-cam? (There are some out there, I got it, but dealerships seem to only want these GTs circulated).
I have a boosted ap1 s2000 and nothing else compares just a pure drivers car ive had it since new in 03 and ill never sell it ive had corvettes camaros and driven tons of sports cars and nothing compares to the smiles per gallon in a s2000 especially a 500hp s2k
I’m torn between a gr86 and an nd2 rf. I’m getting one to learn track driving and have full intentions to modify the car heavily but slowly as I learn it. Ive owned a 2016 BRZ and loved the steering feel and gearshift but the reviews all suggest the new version is lacking in both these departments. Would love feedback from those who own these cars. Cheers!
I'd go with the Miata, but I've been snake-bitten by Subaru engines before. Subaru can't seem to make an engine that doesn't oil starve itself with aggressive driving.
One’s a new roadster with real analog gauges, fuel, hand brake, and real roadster platform. One’s not, and the other is old. Good but old. Mx5 34 years and still constant.
@@z32luvr my bolsters are perfect too! 193k miles and seats look like new! You're supposed to lift yourself in and out of the seat using the door sill and center console when getting in and out. The guy in the video is straight up just sitting on the side bolster. You should never do this to a sport seat.
Cayman is a refined luxury version of the brz/gr86. The brz/gr86 feels more raw and you can have fun pushing it. With the cayman, you have to hold back. Cayman gets more attention even if you don't mod it. People would gravitate towards a stock Cayman over a modded brz/gr96 at meets. Source: I've driven both for a while. Modded and stock
After owning many different cars from many different manufacturers, with many different engines, I've learned that the most enjoyment for me comes from the engine personality. I can't handle the soulless engine of the MX5, and would never choose one over an S2000.
The miata isn't on the level of an S2K but to call it soulless is a bit harsh given that it revs a lot higher than most cars and can do a 0-60 in 5.8s. It's an extremely fun to drive roadster.
doc would you be willing to review something like a 2019 mini JCW hardtop as like an intermediary class comparison to these cars and the “hot hatches?” they’re pretty niiiiice and sound gooood.
@@jubbalandcars outstanding. one correction- i think it’s the models of that generation BEFORE 2019 that have the better exhaust but i know you’re not a sound guy anyway
The S2000 would be a no brainer, even though they are pricey now, IF it had a hydraulic or unassisted steering. That EPS, at that time of EPS tech, is definitely at the lower end of the totem pole according to modern standards. And I really feel that the liveliness of that car has a lot to do with the sound of the car. That car is freaking loud, especially for an inline-4.
Ignoring your heart and letting your brain sway you towards AP2 smh. (AP1 gang). Also I've never had any issues daily driving an S2000, but I don't care for creature comforts in my car
I would LOVE to own a Miata, but it’s completely impractical. I often have more than one passenger in my car, and I don’t want to own two cars at once, so the Miata (and the s2000) are off limits for me right now.
While BRZ is my 2nd car, I want to fit car seat just in case regular car breaks down as emergency back up. Currently inam deciding between having 2 and 3 cars in total, GLS 450 + BRZ vs prev gen Sequoia + Miata + (ioniq 5N /stinger).
S2000/MX5 don't have solid rigidity. ND is 30% stiffer than an S2K. 86 is 3x stiffer than an ND. Body flex sucks. S2000 steering feel is simply poor. With a lot of body flex. The 86 chassis kills the other two compromised vanity drop tops. 86/K24 is the answer. Or even better? An MX5 ND coupe. A real one. How we never got one is beyond me....
Saying the S2000 has a lot of body flex is disingenuous as it feels plenty rigid when driving it. Also it's not a vanity drop top when the car is more enjoyable top down. Unless you're racing professionally or throwing 800+hp in it, you should not care about those factors so much
@GameraS2K it's not. I owned one. Along with an Evora, 997, 993, Evo X, E36 M3, RX8, R8 Spyder and a linguine S2000. It suffers from cowl shake. And badly... ew. " Max Angelelli found fault with the brakes, which faded badly enough to cut his run short by a lap, and with the chassis's overall rigidity, which trailed those of the closed cars. "Going into the corners you can feel a twist in the beginning, and then it settles to the end of the corner." He recommends softening the rear springs for track duty. - Motortrend 2007. I found the same problem and I have a racing background too. You? It's a 90s design that's 30% weaker than a 500 lbs less ND.... nostalgia is a hell of a drug, noob 🍻🏎 The steering feel is also dog ****
@@65hi863dhyu Steering feel is dog. Some guys can make it better with setups but still probably mid. Brakes need upgraded. Suspension is soft. Chassis is still fine though and other than the steering you'll be upgrading that stuff anyway. If you have a racing background you'd know it's plenty stiff for a road car. I'm also not an ND hater. It's a great car too. You seem upset in life
@GameraS2K lol. I'm stating facts. You're too emotional. It's ok S2Ks aren't awesome. I promise:) you need a roll cage. Stupid to daily without a helmet. And the front end flexes. That's not stiff enough. Have a nice day!
In the BRZ, you're hearing a speaker, not the actual engine noise. Some claim the car is too quiet if you disconect this system, others can't stand that it even exists. 230 hp, not 184, which is the torque number.
The fact that an 18 year old S2000 continues to be reviewed against new products really says something about how special the S2000 is. It might not win every time, but it is a benchmark vehicle…and a damn good sports car!
No, it’s becuase there’s no other similar low cost sports cars to compare these to
Agreed, took 18+ years for the miata to try to catch up to it.
Honda went full passion and engineering with every aspect of the S2000, no limit, high budget. Definitely a great vehicle if you find a good and cared for example.
2007 S2000 MRSP $34,250 ($51,728.37 in today's money)
2007 Miata MRSP $20,585 ($31,098.88 in today's money)
@@dannyphamous The miata was never trying to catch up to it. Thats was Mazdas best formula, not to look at others. The Miata will always be in its own, they still sell it!
that being said id rather have a s2000 over my miata, because im a honda fan boy at heart.
The miata just had the upgrades it neeeded to stick with modern times.
The s2000 was a Porsche boxter competitor, the miata and 86 has always been for the masses. Honda did a similar thing with the NSX.
The s2000 didnt hold up very well though. Its a fun car to drive still and i still love them but the miata was a budget sports car and the s2000 was a porsche boxter competitor in the 90s. The boxter eventually outpaced the s2000 before the s2000 even stopped production. The fact that a budget miata and BRZ/GR86 now outpaces it shows that the s2000 isnt worth its price anymore now that even cheap cars can keep up/outpace it now.
Keep in mind that an S2000 sold today would be closer to the price of a porsche boxter(but likely less than one to be competetive) at around 60k-70k for it.
Impressive for the Miata and BRZ to perform at a 60k car level, not really impressive for an S2000 to perform at a 25-32k car level.
Love that tS! Disconnected the engine module, Borla S catback and short shifter and I’m in heaven on a back road
Something I noticed with the ND on stock suspension is that if you’re slightly more aggressive with your steering inputs than other sports cars it tends to set quite quickly in a satisfying way
Oh hell yes, watching this on my coffee break time. Excellent comparison 🎉
S2000 is king.
Great review and welcome to the club!
Bro I am 42 and daily an AP2. Its totally doable if you keep it (relatively) stock
I daily drove my AP1 for 4 years. No issues!
I'm 49 and daily drive my bone stock s2000 , every single day.
He’s going to regret buying the ND3 instead of S2K.
27 here, I daily my 08 to work
Do you get nervous about theft?
Since the Toyota and Subaru twins come with Eyesight for model year 2024, try disabling pre-collision braking (PCB). If pre-collision braking is on, then my 2024 GR86 Trueno Edition dispays a bar graph for oil temperature. When PCB is turned off, I instead am presented with a numerical temperature display. Perhaps this works as well on the 2024+ BRZ.
My dad has an S2K & its always a treat to drive when I get the chance.
special car for sure
15:00 spotted the Focus RS in the back. Cant wait for a review on that car.
Good to hear, Nico Bremeau! Funny seeing you here, old chap!
Good move.! The Honda S2000 was a truly great car in its day.! Reliable etc and the drive experience was par none. but it's 20 years old. And maintenance of age and wear and tear let alone any abuse from previous owners is going to come due. You are paying close to a new car price for the Subaru or Toyota or the Mazda your pick, I lean ND3 Break any of them in properly and you got something on the toy or Sube I would pull the pan and make sure the rtv wasn't overdone. Little labor to ease anxiety for engine on track days.. From a mechanic of 45 years
if i were to get a gr86 or brz how much should i expect to get that rtv properly done? i have no car experience, if i did id' do it myself
If I were buying today it would be the base 86 with the performance package. You get the brakes and dampers for $32k msrp.
absolutely. It is the closest thing to a 90's/2000 car you can get this day and age. ND3 as well.
Unless you're not going to modify it, the Sport is the way to go for the Miata IMHO. Most of the things that need changing to make it a real canyon shredder are what you're paying extra for in the club and GT models, and are still not quite up to the task. A Sport, with a set of sway bars, an Ohlins or Koni set of shocks, a good set of springs, and an OS Giken diff really transform the car into a rocket, and you save yourself near 3000 bucks doing it all. Which you can spend on a cool set of light wheels and a Roadster Sport exhaust.
Haha, I have an order for the exact same package as you. Mine is coming in a few weeks. I'm going to throw on coilovers (NOT Ohlins which will make it even less edgy and more cushioned) and a race exhaust
Me too.... And they just announced that the 35th anniversary edition will be coming soon.
Hey! Slow the hell down!
Kidding, of course. Enjoy the ND. It’s my daily and it works. Those who don’t make it work aren’t versatile people.
I was going 12mph the whole time. It’s just AI and CGI
The fact that 18 years later we have two cars that are competitive with the S2000 with modern safety and regulations, modern tech for half the inflation adjusted price (new to new, not new to used) is nuts. The MX5 is even much lighter!!!
These two cars are the exception, not the rule. The trend has been heavier and less driver focused.
Something that still blows my mind is they went from 4 lug wheels to 5 lugs with the NC then back to 4 lugs with the ND which probably helped their goal of replicating the 1989 2200-2300lb lightness.
The s2000 didnt hold up. The miata was a budget sports car and the s2000 was a porsche boxter competitor in the 90s. Later versions of the boxter outpaced the s2000 before the s2000 even stopped production. The fact that a budget miata and BRZ/GR86 now outpaces it shows that the s2000 has fallen so far back that even cheap cars can keep up/outpace it now.
s2000 is much more limited... the motors also dont rebuild well so a swap is almost needed after it goes boom.
@@JupiterxBlues Bro the s2000 was meant to compete against them both. Porsche people are delusional
@@JupiterxBluesyou have no clue what you’re talking about. They still sell for way more than a Porsche boxster and hold their value better as well.
Oil temp is nice but oil pressure would be best.
The S2000 being included already is a win.
Forgot to ask in previous comment, what makes BRZ better to learn on than Miata? I own a 2023 BRZ and plan to get Miata in future, so far 6 track days on BRZ and I am slow learner.
The space! You can take out the backseats to remove 25lbs
@@Bodangers and it's still 400lb heavier. The space doesn't make it better to learn my guess is less snappiness due to longer wheelbae.
The BRZ’s pumped in engine noise, sounds like a motorcycle engine. I like it.
The miata is a decent bit of kit, it’s certainly up there now. Becoming quite a pest in the sprints and hill climb vs me in my old S2000.😂😠
Great honest review - I normally can’t stand this kind of video!
Yet another GT for the MX-5. Loved this comparison, but damn. Can we get a Club SOMEWHERE on UA-cam? (There are some out there, I got it, but dealerships seem to only want these GTs circulated).
I got one on order but agreed hard to find a club. Only able to custom order them. Dealers don’t stock them
I wonder why most dealers don't stock them? And when they do, the sale is gone the same week it arrived, lol
I have a boosted ap1 s2000 and nothing else compares just a pure drivers car ive had it since new in 03 and ill never sell it ive had corvettes camaros and driven tons of sports cars and nothing compares to the smiles per gallon in a s2000 especially a 500hp s2k
lol s2000 is trash
I recognise that road. 😉 You might see me up there in the evenings in a silver modified NB2.
I’m torn between a gr86 and an nd2 rf. I’m getting one to learn track driving and have full intentions to modify the car heavily but slowly as I learn it. Ive owned a 2016 BRZ and loved the steering feel and gearshift but the reviews all suggest the new version is lacking in both these departments. Would love feedback from those who own these cars. Cheers!
ND2 RF is better for learning. Plus the cabrio side, a huge plus.
Despite doing track-days and driving it quite hard, it doesn't consume oil.
I'd go with the Miata, but I've been snake-bitten by Subaru engines before. Subaru can't seem to make an engine that doesn't oil starve itself with aggressive driving.
S2000 25 year old technology. Came out in 1999. Still being used as benchmark and compared to cars today.
When calculated in 2024 money, a new s2000 would be around 60k. Supra money.
It compared with Porsches and costed twice of a miata back then 😂😂😂😂
So weird how the temps don’t show numerical level like the 86
I’m getting Deja vu. Feel like I saw this video already. 🤔
😂
I heard bbr 😮 220kit content in the future?
One’s a new roadster with real analog gauges, fuel, hand brake, and real roadster platform. One’s not, and the other is old. Good but old. Mx5 34 years and still constant.
Why are all S2000 seat side bolster *completely* flat and destroyed? When people get into the car like this dude just did.
A lot of them are unfortunately. Mine is perfect.
@@z32luvr my bolsters are perfect too! 193k miles and seats look like new! You're supposed to lift yourself in and out of the seat using the door sill and center console when getting in and out. The guy in the video is straight up just sitting on the side bolster. You should never do this to a sport seat.
I lift my leg over the side bolster and step out. Mines on the S2000 are still in great shape and stiffness for a 2006 with 45k on it.
Did you ever consider a Boxster or Cayman 987 or 981? They’re kind of in the same price range.
Cayman is a refined luxury version of the brz/gr86. The brz/gr86 feels more raw and you can have fun pushing it. With the cayman, you have to hold back. Cayman gets more attention even if you don't mod it. People would gravitate towards a stock Cayman over a modded brz/gr96 at meets. Source: I've driven both for a while. Modded and stock
@@Bodangers I completely disagree with this take. There is nothing that a brz does better than a Boxster/Cayman, double so for an S/GTS.
After owning many different cars from many different manufacturers, with many different engines, I've learned that the most enjoyment for me comes from the engine personality. I can't handle the soulless engine of the MX5, and would never choose one over an S2000.
Completely fair and I know many who feel the same way
Yeah it’s not even close. Plus the S2K looks 10x better 20 years later.
The miata isn't on the level of an S2K but to call it soulless is a bit harsh given that it revs a lot higher than most cars and can do a 0-60 in 5.8s. It's an extremely fun to drive roadster.
one is decades old, one has an engine thats been exploding lately....yeah its obvious which car i'd get
Great You're a video and mx5 how do you gas ???? Regular OR premium????
doc would you be willing to review something like a 2019 mini JCW hardtop as like an intermediary class comparison to these cars and the “hot hatches?” they’re pretty niiiiice and sound gooood.
Yes
@@jubbalandcars outstanding. one correction- i think it’s the models of that generation BEFORE 2019 that have the better exhaust but i know you’re not a sound guy anyway
Im not a musician but still appreciate good sound from a car
Pontiac solstice gxp?
The S2000 would be a no brainer, even though they are pricey now, IF it had a hydraulic or unassisted steering. That EPS, at that time of EPS tech, is definitely at the lower end of the totem pole according to modern standards.
And I really feel that the liveliness of that car has a lot to do with the sound of the car. That car is freaking loud, especially for an inline-4.
Ignoring your heart and letting your brain sway you towards AP2 smh. (AP1 gang). Also I've never had any issues daily driving an S2000, but I don't care for creature comforts in my car
Boa habt ihr so schlechte Straßen ??? 🤯
Didn't show the review going the other way uphill, as it took twice as long with the combined tq of my Milwaukee impact wrench
🤣
😂
I would LOVE to own a Miata, but it’s completely impractical. I often have more than one passenger in my car, and I don’t want to own two cars at once, so the Miata (and the s2000) are off limits for me right now.
i have no friends so i never have more than 1 person with me
While BRZ is my 2nd car, I want to fit car seat just in case regular car breaks down as emergency back up. Currently inam deciding between having 2 and 3 cars in total, GLS 450 + BRZ vs prev gen Sequoia + Miata + (ioniq 5N /stinger).
will you be reviewing that focus rs?
Yes we filmed that too! Probably another month
I think the S2000 is the best looking car plus it has that legendary status.
I agree. These cars aren’t even in the same league.
@z32luvr All subjective. Not a fan of the S2000's front end personally. Plus, a cloth roof. Nah.
Looks is opinion but the drives these two are completely different machine
オープンカー vs オープンカー vs クローズドボディ クローズドボディしか選べない
true, if you want convertible then that eliminates brz
BRZ ts.
AP1>AP2>MX5>Toyota/Subaru twins.
AP2>AP1
AP1>ND3>AP2>>>>>>FRS/BRZ/GT86
S2000/MX5 don't have solid rigidity. ND is 30% stiffer than an S2K. 86 is 3x stiffer than an ND. Body flex sucks. S2000 steering feel is simply poor. With a lot of body flex. The 86 chassis kills the other two compromised vanity drop tops. 86/K24 is the answer. Or even better? An MX5 ND coupe. A real one. How we never got one is beyond me....
Saying the S2000 has a lot of body flex is disingenuous as it feels plenty rigid when driving it. Also it's not a vanity drop top when the car is more enjoyable top down. Unless you're racing professionally or throwing 800+hp in it, you should not care about those factors so much
@GameraS2K it's not. I owned one. Along with an Evora, 997, 993, Evo X, E36 M3, RX8, R8 Spyder and a linguine S2000. It suffers from cowl shake. And badly... ew.
" Max Angelelli found fault with the brakes, which faded badly enough to cut his run short by a lap, and with the chassis's overall rigidity, which trailed those of the closed cars. "Going into the corners you can feel a twist in the beginning, and then it settles to the end of the corner." He recommends softening the rear springs for track duty. - Motortrend 2007.
I found the same problem and I have a racing background too. You? It's a 90s design that's 30% weaker than a 500 lbs less ND.... nostalgia is a hell of a drug, noob 🍻🏎
The steering feel is also dog ****
@@65hi863dhyu Steering feel is dog. Some guys can make it better with setups but still probably mid. Brakes need upgraded. Suspension is soft. Chassis is still fine though and other than the steering you'll be upgrading that stuff anyway. If you have a racing background you'd know it's plenty stiff for a road car. I'm also not an ND hater. It's a great car too. You seem upset in life
@GameraS2K lol. I'm stating facts. You're too emotional. It's ok S2Ks aren't awesome. I promise:) you need a roll cage. Stupid to daily without a helmet. And the front end flexes. That's not stiff enough. Have a nice day!
@@65hi863dhyu idk skill issue i guess
並びがおかしいですね、嫌いなHONDA本田は、入らないですよ〜👋
MAZDAの松田🚺先生より
In the BRZ, you're hearing a speaker, not the actual engine noise. Some claim the car is too quiet if you disconect this system, others can't stand that it even exists. 230 hp, not 184, which is the torque number.
It’s a combination of speaker and engine. When you unplug the sound module you appreciate the difference