Do Superhero Comics Have to Change to Attract New Readers?
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2024
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I got hooked from comics explained on UA-cam I’m 23 and usually the youngest person in the shop unless parents bring kids.
As in I got into comics from UA-cam videos of comics
I feel you, I'm 19 and it's pretty hard finding another person closer to my age in shops. But after like talking online and stuff I've found out there is a lot of younger people reading comics, it's just harder for the younger people like us because we don't have as much disposable income
I suspect there are a lot of people who got into comic characters through channels like Comics Explained. I do wonder how many of those people go on to become active, paying readers.
Obviously better marketing is needed but I dont think the comic medium needs to change in order to attract new people, the fact that its different than other mediums is enough to appeal to different people. I think what Jmaes Gunn did with advertising the comics that will inspire the movies is great and it should be a common practice
As a teenager who recently started reading comics, I feel like a lot of people would actually quite like to start reading comics, there just needs to be a change in the perception of “oh starting a Comic series is so complicated”. It’s mainly just marketing and having accessible standalone books (like the compact editions)
Showing up every day to sway Sean to be the LCS Sheriff for Halloween
Pete Collins made a pretty good case for it with his drawing of me as the LCS sheriff!
Yes he did!
I think this issue goes to the roots... Kids aren't reading. Movies, video Games and Fan made AI videos are more entertaining than reading. I got three kids and can't get them off a game to read anything if its not school related.
I think the movies needs to start doing promotional comics at the theaters. They can also have the graphic novel the film is based off at the theaters for purchase.
As a kid, my intro into comics were the promos. Civil War brought me in after as a pre-teen for a bit, then New 52 digital brought me again in as a college student.
Still, I wouldn’t have cared so much / had nostalgia if I didn’t have opportunities to read when very young through those promos.
I’m a new subscriber, so idk if you all have covered this topic before, but I think a meaningful discussion you guys could have is the medium and storytelling style of digital comic platform of WebToons. If there was ever a need to change/ adapt comics to reach new audiences, I think they’re a case study of how to do it in the new landscape of how younger generations consume media.
(P.S. love the channel and the discussions you all have! Keep it up!)
Hey thanks a lot for being here! We’ll add this to orbiting potential conversation topics for the future.
The draw to comics for me was the availability as a kid I never knew there was such a thing as a LCS. They were at the corner stores, grocery stores plus the Saturday morning cartoons gave comics a huge boost and this was at the age of 6 and 7 years old, but you are not going to get a 7 year old to buy and comic for 5 bucks, they need 99 cent comic mini size comics or a regular comic for 99 cent comics with less pages and they just continue. Divide one issue and make it cheaper for kids
There were some good points made here. Marketing is such a HUGE missed opportunity for Marvel; I don't think I've ever seen an advertisement of any kind for a comic release, even a big one like an anniversary issue or an omnibus reveal. They need to figure that out if they want to entice new readers with any regularity. Hell, even the schedule is sort of an in-secret; I only relatively recently found out new issues come out on Wednesdays, primarily because I never asked. I don't collect floppies so I never had any reason to enquire further. And LCS aren't much help either; when I FIRST started collecting I went to mine to ask how I would go about preordering a book to which they said "yeah go to our website and make a pull list." Then seemed very uninterested in explaining exactly what that meant.
Aside from providing ways to make schedules and terms easier for newcomers to understand, they need to prioritize getting comics in kids hands. How easy would it be to have comic book days at schools and libraries? Especially now when comic book movies are basically the norm.
I've been reading for about a decade. I actually read celebrated older runs retrospectively that span 3 decades in this time frame and I heavily reduced my intake about 6 months ago. I used to read over six issues a day and now I read that much in a month. my main issue with superhero comics is that they are cyclical and not linear. There is no resolution or (lasting) meaningful development.
Personally I think its just about exposure and accessibility. I'm 19, I started reading comics 1-2 years ago and when I first wanted to start reading comics I had to do a lot of research deciding what to read, what format, and if it was even accessible. The idea that a graphic novel could be out of print or a comic book would be unavailable I feel like is pretty foreign. Like why wouldn't marvel always have 60s spider-man in print or something. Then it becomes a question of will the books I want to read ever be in print again or do I have to find some other way to read it. Most people will not go through this effort.
So absolutely I think there needs to be a better way for readers to track the order of issues (something that I found overwhelming before I read comics), and making them more appealing. We all know these characters are huge markets, yet their core median just doesn't sell compared to the rest. So finding a way to make comics seem more valuable, impactful, or just something that can't be missed pertaining to that character, AND expressing that to the public clearly. I can't tell you how many times I've seen casuals comment on Instagram post of marvel talking about new comic releases and them just having no idea whats going on.
I've heard this argument, but not from this direction, and this is the most interesting way to put it. What happens when the last great wave of readers leaves - because that's what the group you are speaking on is. The last of a dedicated base for comics since its inception. Comic shops have to change for the modern audiance.
I'm still watching your video so someone might bring this up but besides marketing, I think DC and Marvel need to do what Invincible is doing. Make an animated adaptation of story arcs. It's what most shonen anime does. If I'm watching an anime like My Hero Academia for example but I have to wait for a new season, I'll go buy the next volume. And that's what got me into manga.
DC actually did attempt this with Injustice animated movie. It just wasn't good due to cramming everything in a movie. Imagine an animated Injustice tv show with season's. People would buy Year 2 just to satisfy their cravings.
TLDR; DC and Marvel need to do faithful anime TV adaptations of comic story arcs like Injustice, Court of Owls, Geoff Johns GL run, etc
Putting digital and trades aside, we are asking young people to go to a shop weekly, if they have a shop, and pay 3 to 4 dollars a month per issue, for something that may take them 10 min to read. Thats a barrier to entry, that needs to be solved, not the stories
Does it need to be solved though? As in does the industry NEED to change that to survive? Right now it’s not dying.
@@TheComicsPalsGood point, i think we need to get younger readers interested in the characters, via animation, movies, etc. Once that happens they will find the comics
@@TheComicsPals I want to know how much is alternative and exclusive covers are inflating sales.
Most people are on their PHONES. CLEARLY MARVEL/DC should be pushing the DIGITAL sub. phone apps in their films.
$10 a month for digital apps. VS $5 an issue????
I wouldn’t even spend that ONE time. It’s a waste of money. The future is here. And it’s NOT bad. At all.
@@TheComicsPals
I actually do agree that these barriers to entry ARE a huge problem and should be addressed. I’m a gen Z comic fan, and in my experience both the financial and accessibility side of getting fans to the space. And yes, you can say the industry is niche and therefore isn’t dying, but I’d argue that the space shouldn’t have to be niche and with all of the interest in comic characters in pop culture, and should have had a substantial growth by this point. Most people of my generation do want to enjoy stories like this, and platforms like Webtoons do wonders! If indie creators are able to pop off so hard that they can develop into full animated series with games, there’s no excuse that the big two can’t make a big enough splash there to engage readers in the graphic novel medium!
Feels like the onus is on the current gen of readers. Got to be welcoming of the new kids at the LCS and introduce the younger ones in your life to the good books
Yes. It's not up for debate. They're clearly falling behind.
YES! It just depends on HOW they do it 😀
I think the biggest change needs to come from digital sales. I think most current comic readers are also collectors and will go to comic shops no matter what. Their subscriptions need to be day and date. Digital sales should be cheaper, they are in books, it’s ridiculous to also pay for the price of paper when buying a digital copy.
Most young people cannot afford to be buying a lot of comics every week when comics are so expensive. That’s going to immediately turn people away from ever really diving into comics, especially current comics. I know it’s why I stopped myself from getting into comics initially.
Personally I think what manga gets right that comics hasn't lately is that manga stories become synonymous with the creator. The story and the art are created by one team for it's entire run. I believe that is one of the reasons why a book like Invincible became so popular. I can give a current example of a book I read strictly because of the artist, and when the artist left I stopped picking up the book...Super Sons.
As old talent leaves, new talent comes in and applies what they've seen and learned to different books, whether it be artistic choices or writing styles or who the book is marketed towards. So, change should happen as a matter of course. And with the creative directions that people have taken in the Entertainment Industry, comics, whether Superhero books or not, should be awash with so many creative choices and styles and all of the influences that made those choices and styles come together.
And, to be certain, some things have changed. But some things haven't changed since the Crash. Or haven't changed enough perhaps.
That you have to ask whether Superhero Comics have to change to attract new readers should frighten you. What stories are being told that are a reflection of the things that have inspired the new crop of writers? What artistic choices are because of the lessons learned from pros of the past now transformed into new and wonderful visuals? Do those new artists and writers have the space to truly tell stories of Superheroes saving the day and inspiring hope in their readers?
Or is it just the same old, same old from people who don't want to change? Or do much other than what worked in the past, whether it be Deconstruction books like Watchmen, Grim and Gritty 90's Superheroes, or "we're ashamed to be hopeful" Superhero books masquerading as adult?
Or maybe, its just easier to put it all on everything else but Superhero comics to do these things rather than actually taking a risk in-between those pages?
While we may know the difference in story from the original as readers, I would say it does matter very much if there is a change in the story for the movie going audience. The original became or was so good to the point it actually got to be greenlit as a movie or series for a reason (cause of it's initial success and popularity) and the fact that the movie makers try to alter it cause they wanted some creativity has hardly every done anything good. I can't even think of any from the top of my head, beyond streamlining ergo cutting of certain elements as to not to make the movie last 20 hours. I get a director doesn't want to be a slave but hey then you shouldn't take a job adapting something or have the hubris to think you can do a better altering the story yourself. You can't alter the core of the story, its themes or the ending, otherwise you'll end up losing what it made good in the first place, and what i do see is them adapting something they do not fundamentally understand or can understand as they are not from the medium to begin with. Think of all the game movies as spectacular examples, Borderlands anyone.
It's just not that cut and dry. The Dark Knight trilogy is a great example of how not following the comics but being informed by them can lead to something fantastic that rivals the original. The Logan film takes its cues from certain comics but stands head and shoulders above in quality from those comics.
DC should have kept the #SnyderVerse! It was making money etc.
The bad thing was that it strayed away from its clear and gritty direction. People wanted something different from MCU’s quirky tone.
Once they halted the #SnyderVerse and tried to do ONE OFF films without that direction, it FAILED: Birds of Prey, Shazam, Wonder Woman ‘84, etc.
Maybe the DC All in for young readers will bring more kids into Comics. But the real challenge is how to let them and their parents know that these books exist.
BTW, at the time I didn’t know that Watchmen is a Comic book, but watching the movie made me want to get the comics and honestly I enjoyed both
DC/MARVEL should be pushing their new comic lines as entry points for NEW readers as a 30 second trailer in their films also.
I dont know if comparing big two comic adaptations with hunger games or harry potter is a one to one.
With thise literary properties, the characters have only had those very few adventures/stories written by a single voice (whether theyre a disgusting human or not). There arent arguments fromt he past 80 years of what stoires are in continuity, which are definitive, whose take/run is the "real" version of the character.
I think adaptationa should use the core of the source material stories and then branch out to make their project their own. Infinity gauntlet and Hickman's avengers into infinity war/endgame. Civil war into captain america civil war. Spider verse becomes into the spiser verse 1 and 2. Or the Batman using long halloween, year one,earth one and ego as inspiration.
Is the biggest issue, availability of of where to get the issues? I am old enough that most of my books were bought in convivence stores, mall bookstores before I moved to mail ordering. Where do new readers stumble across issues now?
Are you, as an OG comic book reader, opposed to reading comics on your phone or a tablet??
Honestly I like how X-Men 97 adapted a lot of Storylines from the 80s & 90s Comics and I'm someone who came into the comics because of that 92 show
while with DC I feel stuff like Justice League Unlimited & Teen Titans adapted stuff from the comics in a creative way .
The DCEU was terrible & their adaptation of New 52 natural was so Bad .
I will admit I wish Comics in the USA was more like Japanese Comics do with Anime when like Jojo Bizarre Adventure
Batman 244 on the end table ❤
I feel like comics over the past 25 years have been written in a style that is more like a storyboard than comics in the past. I think this makes for an inferior experience to movies or TV because they are not using the written word to its fullest advantage. Sandman for example has beautiful prose and story which IMO makes it superior to the TV adaptation.
This is an interesting, thoughtful comment. I do agree that I sometimes feel the writing is surface level. But I would also argue that Sandman is an outlier, and there are beautifully written comics today as well, but Gaiman is one of the greatest of all time for a reason.
Great conversation; though I did infer the vibe was too big 2 centric when the entire industry needs a push. I think Marco mentioning the Manga to Anime pipeline is a good shout. I mean the second any book wins an Eisner that shit should be getting adapted same day. Problem is Manga to Anime is like Japanese rail, consistent, clockwork, brilliant; Comic to Adaptation is like American rail....slow, late, crappy, shit show. However; adaptation only exemplifies the virtue of the story NOT the virtues of the medium of comics and if you want people to get into comics you need to promote the medium as a whole.
How do you do that?
Increase visibility & ubiquity whilst promoting the inherent artistic merits central to the medium. Promote sequential art as high art & low art. Comic strips where that "get them while they're young" hook, I see strips all the time as memes/online posts that's an entry point. Share a page on official sites & artists accounts. As much as Sean hates them as a format for himself (valid Comics Amish representation), digital comics are so much easier to get into; and not just for readers but creators as well. Yeah Amazon nuking Comixology set things back, but DC/Marvel online, Various other publishers online, Webtoons, Patreon, Substack, I think some people even make stuff on Deviant Art still maybe. If you're young you've grown up with digital convenience so that'd be the first place you'd look if looking for comics at all. But digital comic providers have a Netflix like approach to promotion; they make new shit every day & promote one thing twice a year. It's not good enough. Promote the medium & it's virtues at any/every point as best as the minimal budgets allow...maybe even burst that budget. And from the digital realm promote the physical books. If something is getting a Trade or an Omni or a new creative team mention the LCR mention any online retailer even on your digital reader. Comics are in this together, so work together.
with the amounts of extra shoots they do in movies these days they might as well create the original creators movie and their movie. And saying budget is bullcrap because these movies "that cost $300 million" don't cost that. That's just organized crime.
Buy the film and watch the version you want if there are multiple versions. If its done right it doesn't have to be done again.
Taking someones idea they never would have came up with and changing it to fit their ideals is messed up to me because your disrespecting someone elses idea to respect your own.
I do think that taking the same story and coming from another perspective so nothing changes but you may get a different characters perspective and some different scenes while still getting much of the same is cool if what is added is quality. Because if you do that in every medium for the same story(s) you can get an even better story experiance.
Two events ruined comics: Big Corporations taking over DC and Marvel, and the end of cheap Newsstand comics meant to be purchased on impulse, read or gifted. Everyone thinks the industry "can't go back", but it CAN, and should have never left its roots.
Realistically though, how can it? I assume by you saying it can happen again it means you understand why they pivoted and why they haven't gone back yet.
@@TheComicsPals yup. I do. If DC and Marvel once again become independent, then it opens up a lot of things. As long as they are retained by Warner and Disney, nothing will change to benefit comic books.
Every time someone says that comics it always a niche think I thought that this guy don't know what is talking about and its being too long that comics industry shrink to be at life support.
It would be good if comics would back to popular among children.
You can think whatever you want to but it is IS a niche industry. Was it always? No, but it has been for a long time. There are lots of things that are niche, there’s no shame in that.
Yes. The Big 2 have got to go back making stories that attract BUYING customers and not far-left activists who are anti-capitalists. The only DC ongoing comic I read is World's Finest from Mark Waid. Marvel on the other hand, destroyed the X-Men and Spider-Man (main universe). I used to look forward to reading those titles back in the day. Skybound/Image has been the only company where I'm reading multiple titles.
Why do you despise DIGITAL comics so much, sir?
I love the fact that it cuts down on SPACE and COST (speaking on behalf of DIGITAL comic subscriptions) ….
… MARVEL/DISNEY don’t pay me, of course 😀
It’s a personal thing. I like knowing I own what I buy and can access it at any time. I have them physically so I’m not reliant on a device to read and nothing is in between me and the physical relationship I get to have with the books where I can hold them and really appreciate the artwork.
@@TheComicsPals what about the storage/space cost?? Imagine having a home full of comic books. We comic lovers know what that feels like 😊
There is no reason to pick up a comic book these live action movies were meant to bring new people to the medium but they all failed
No reason? I mean there are a lot of people enjoying them so clearly there’s SOME reason.