Cognitive Personality Theory I agree. My ENTP brother describes himself as a feeler to the point where he wants to think he’s an ENFP, but he’s definitely Ti-Fe. Fe emotions can often be stronger than Fi, regardless of the order in the functional stack.
Lemon Sqeez I don’t know if I’d say they’re stronger considering it’s all in our subjective worlds and you can’t feel an Fi users emotions and vice versa. I’ve got a call with Dave next week so I’m excited to gain some clarity on my type but I’m hard leaning on ENTP. He already gave some plausible confirmation as to my ExxP so that’s nice. How old is your brother?
This totally reinforced what I've been more and more convinced of recently that I'm an ENTP jumper. I really want to be a regular ENTP using Ti as a savior, and subconsciously try to present myself that way, but if I'm honest with myself, I've always valued the tribe more than myself, and based decisions on what other people want more than what I truly want. The part that's messing up my head is that I think doing this is really bad for me and makes me unhappy, and when I actually do use Ti instead of Fe to make decisions, I feel guilty but in the end feel more at peace rather than always resenting that other person and myself for ignoring what I wanted. This makes me sort of buy into the "Ne Fe loop" that people talk about as a negative, unhealthy state to be in, rather than what OP says about how half of ENTPs are just naturally jumpers and always will be. I don't want to be a jumper anymore, I want to use Ti :( I know I know I just need to find balance between the two or whatever. ugh.
I’m an ENTP and possible jumper as well. I find myself making decisions because I feel like it’s best for me, not think. Then again, and majority of the time, I use Ti to make my decisions; especially the important ones. But reading this made me want to give you some Fe affection and let you know that it’s okay to be unhappy about it but also see the light in the darkness. You have the ability to use both, and that’s pretty dope!
Yay, finally a saviour Fe video! I have been trying to work out what Fe is doing with emotions/self in a Double Decider. She kind of spoke out what I had realised over my teenage years and up to now (no you don't get my age). I was actually just saying to my friend and mother the past three months or so that I need to just let people hear what I actually think and then they can decide for themselves if they like me or not, considering it- I can sense that people really want the real you (at least some do) and they can sense the sort of manipulative hand of the Fe trying to please. So many thoughts on this, and also just how much it reminds me of my whole life- she even said things similar to how I felt/worded things as a young, young child.
Man, that is some Lavender Town-ass music at the end. Pokemon fans, you know what I'm talking about. The Fi "I need people to like what I like" thing is interesting, it's something that I might have identified with when I was younger but I've realized I actually don't have. As Ti/Fe, I don't really care whether you personally like the things I do, I just need you to accept that I like them. Where I do get weirder is when someone comes after my reasons for liking something, since I do have reasons that I could probably explain, but they're personal and I'm not confident that people will get it (or that I can explain them well enough).
@Cliven Longsightsame here , but i notice it depends on( number )of those who like or dislike your tastes when you are around of many , even if you have high resistance, you would be very uncomfortable , because you want them to like it , it make peaceful connection , i believe Fi feel uncomfortable too but the reason is different, they don't care if you like it or not but they hate rudeness.
@Cliven Longsight I'm talking about tastes not logical opinions man , tastes come from emotions and what people like or they don't , i meant when someone tell you I don't like your t-shirt for example , dom Fe effected highly with this opinion, but in your case and mine, it's not , but you still going feel uncomfortable about something you thought it's perfect taste for you but turned out there someone else don't like it , in this scenario , it still ok and who cares, but if you were with best friends of yours and all of them said your t-shit is was bad choice , a thought will jump to the head , wishper to you that you should consider to change your t-shirt next time , even if you ignore this thought , but the point here Fe will always try to do these uncomfortable wishpers , convince you to fit with others tastes, which is sucks , even if you have high resistance, it won't change the nature of Fe , i have creative tastes and really don't change my tastes no matter what other people say , but like I said , Fe will make sure to make you uncomfortable with others when they all against your taste.
@Cliven Longsight we are in same boat , and to answer the first questions , it's not about Fe alone rather than how Ne Ti Fe * Ni Ti Fe acts 1-(What do you personally feel and think while maintaining your shirt choice, at odds with your friends' collective opinion against that choice?) that my personality as whole is different from them even if my feelings try to push me to the corner , but it had no chance against my stronger functions.. 2-(It sounds like you are internally relegating (perceiving/framing) the choice as being completely subjective, without examining it for any logical root causes, or even examining the emotional underpinnings for their root causes: is this is how you generally proceed, day to day? Also, what, if anything, do you say to them about maintaining your choice?) hmm i always rely on my Ti as best defence against any control from others , that why i told you we are same boat ( in this particular point ), because i always cut me self using logic against who want to change my tastes , and a lot of times using examples from the real world to those who against my taste to prove how much they wrong when there is no reason to go against my taste , and yes i rely heavily on internal world , there i can dismantling each point of view - words - roots ... but here the thing , if you examining Fx roots alone without influence from other function , you would see tastes have nothing to do with logic , even if you cut off everyone who against your taste , this won't change the fact how they see your taste , they can't use logic to tell you why they hate black color , or why they like red , even if you asked them , they will give you superficial reasons , for example if you ask someone why you like black , he could say because it reflects my personality , but why black reflects your personality , the answer could be i feel warm in darkness , why do you feel like this in darkness etc.. you can see if you keep digging to understand tastes source, you always back to environment - experiences - memories - imagination , that why using logic and reasons against tastes is just an ego defence mechanism against outside influence , but deep down logic and emotions are separated completely from each other , (Fe alone) are weak against outside attacks including tastes - (Fi alone) have high and strong closed defence emotional system , including tastes and since you and me have strong identity ( logical type ) , tastes influence from the others have strong impact at first impression (Fe alone) since it designed to deal with emotions at first , and it fall down to the dust when Ti stand against it, i think your Ni give you extra point against influence from others , internal world always fascinating , no one will understand that until they see how huge and perfect it is : D
@Cliven Longsight Do you know what your type is? (Particularly the masculine and feminine orientation of the deciders). I'm pretty sure I'm F-Ti/M-Fe which would be why I get more self-conscious about my personal reasons, since they're more movable (F-Ti), but if someone attacks them directly I may get more animated and start verbally punching back (or literally punching back, in rare extreme cases).
@Cliven Longsight good question , i tried to flip Ne to Ni , it didn't give me what i'm looking for because as you know Ne can't choose , it just show you endless patterns and roads , i did tricky solution , since i have Si and i understand it deep down , i just flipped the direction from past to future, (without losing the internal focus) , which is very important to understand how Ni see things , i can say this experience forced me to see my Ne very annoying and ridiculous , (i'm very good at been in others shoes literally not metaphorically) , this increase my knowledge about the world from all point of views which i hope one day lead to wisdom : D but if you look at entropy ,they defined it as chaos, but i can see it as system that have goal , that why i believe Ne do what it meant to do for reason that i don't understand yet , there must be goal for Ne to do what it does , i don't find it as satisfactory answer when black create conclusions about white based on how black see it self , or the opposite , my ambition to see what it beyond this.. now for tracking back the origin of emotions , and how can create it self , so we can understand if there any link that say tastes could come from innar source , i doubt if this possible , since all child's are automatically sleep under subconscious control , and human don't have access to that area which is very important to know how the subconscious collect tastes and emotions and what it based on exactly , i said this because you made me think about what if not all tastes coming from outside world , what if there is a basic code that includes basics tastes in the subconscious , a primal tastes .. if you know any book or scientist track back these lines to the sources please give me link , but i doubt anyone can do such claim , because they have to access to subconscious vault first.
That fucking sentence was a fucking healing statement for me. My Fi is applauding. A lot of people want to become NTJs but I hate it. I wish I am more of an NTP/NFP but watching these videos make me relaxed and stop worrying about the outside world, just my inner bubble and who / what are in it.
Hahaha! Yup. If someone tears down what I say with reasons, my feminine Te is forced to concede and my masculine Fi will stop enjoying what I was explaining pretty much full stop. Interesting to note, when someone gives me Fe negative feelings via anger or hate, my recipient Fi flares up and gets resentful immediately. I start thinking of ways to "break contact with the enemy" permanently such that it never happens again, but since my Fi is masculine, I won't compromise to fulfill it - I plot and move to conquer and take up residence in my angry opponent's domain. Retreat, according to my intuition, only invites persuit.
My mom's an ENFJ, and it's sad how little time she has for herself. It's also fascinating that she has the exact same order of cognitive functions as me, except in the opposite introvert vs extrovert status for all of them.
Hmm I'm an INFP (I think) and relate pretty strongly to this. I do think the whole persona thing where you bring multiple groups together and get nervous is universal but who knows.
Wow, this really hit home. I'm an ENTP and i believe Fe Savior.. I have been driving myself mad over thinking if people like me, dislike me, especially during quarantine this year. I have not seen any friends, and my social life has been resorted to social media. I also lost my business due to the pandemic, and my identity/confidence. I keep wondering why i panic, thinking about past relationships gone wrong, feel this freak out feeling... then the next day comes and Im better. It must be my underdeveloped Fe! Does anybody else relate, I would love to talk about this to develop.. its like a mental illness!
Geez Savior Fe sounds exhausting. I have it as a 3rd function but I just whip it out when I need to have fun or convince someone of something I want them to do and then put it away when I’ve accomplished it.
1:50 and 4:33 wow I think about this all the time and you just verbalized that so well. Really makes you think. Also OMG I DID NOT EXPECT THE DOMINO VIDEOS AT THE END. omg i’m freaking out because i’m a domino builder and know all of those videos!! I wonder if you may have stumbled across some of my videos xD But yeah, using dominoes is a great analogy!
I just went to go watch some of your videos from this, and I can’t even imagine your patience in setting up so many elaborate domino paths so often!! Woahhhh!!! 👏👏
I similar issues and I have demon M-Fi. Ideas feel less personal to me, but values feel very personal. To those with Ti it's provably the other way around. Also my Te is feminine so there is more wiggle room there.
@@mauraliller6 same, M-Fi, F-Te. I'm really movable when it comes to ideas and how things should work (unless it's a way outside my comfort zone box, then my demon Se takes over and even other people's opinions don't matter anymore) But I've been this way my whole life "I'm not going to like pink just because I'm a girl and people say girls like pink, you know what? I think I'm gonna hate it" "I'm not going to like Harry Potter just because the whole world likes it, I don't like it, and that's that" But it's not like I don't like popular things, sometimes I do, but just not because they're popular. My mother and sister constantly say to me "you don't have to take it to heart", but dang it I'm so passionate about the things I like, I can't help it. My whole identity is built around the things I like
Indeed Op. I have Fi and not often do I get upset when someone doesn't like something I like. It opens the doors towards me trying to figure out why that is.
As an FM-Ne/Ti-CP/B(S) (ENTP), my Fe is masculine, double activated, yet it's a demon so it's very sensitive but my Ti always wins. It makes me feel very conflicted especially when I'm trying to impress people(which is most of the time) but my Ti disagrees with other people's perspectives. I end up criticizing poor ideas, and most people don't enjoy that. I just end up coming off like a dick. I'm hyper aware of people's reactions to my disagreements and I end up getting irritated with myself.
We have a similar setup, though different modalities and letters. If you commit (Oi) to a friendship/group, consistently check in on their needs (De), and disclose your own problems (Oi+Di), they'll love you and you'll be proud of yourself. You'll remember that emotions are part of the game and you'll sense your ideas getting across.
If your Fe is masculine, then your Ti is feminine. Since Ti is second in your stack, and the second letter in the gender designation refers to this second function, shouldn't you come off as FF and not FM?
@@AlastorTheNPDemon the letters don't correlate to function order. I'm pretty sure the first is linked to your sensory function and the second is linked to your extroverted decider. At least that's what it used to be.
Bravo ! The dominoes in reverse felt amazing. ,, from an infj mom of 2 boys ( almost 2& 3 years old,birthdays this month) . I am a poet,musician with a science degree . And lately I try to detach completely from how bad all of the little messes around the house feel after a lot of hard work .. coming from an infj lol. I have been successful in the detaching to a large degree. I want to find out more info about my subtype in the future. . More dominoes or fast growing flowers . Love you guys!,
There was a Brit series on being British and they all agreed you don't invite your different "Segments" of people to the same party (friends/work/gamer, etc.) because that would be totally, freakily weird and horrible if they actually met each other.
Since I discovered you guys I've been questioning my type, never had 100% sure about anything, but after that I am almost sure that I have feminine Te savior. I think it is the secondary, but never knows, maybe can be my dominant. Thank you for the content!
Like she said in the video, it is Fe-saviour common to not know how much other people influence you (low Ti is blind to internal processes and their connections to the outside world).
Every side of me is the real me. 🙂 I just play up certain aspects to get what I want from a certain group better. If someone ever gets offended that they never saw a side of me coming, thats on them and their blind Ni! I was always me, they just never asked the right questions to know what they ought to have picked up on. It’s none of my business what other people do and what they think unless it implicates and involves me. This is their Di, its their job to figure it out. It’s not my problem if someone is dumb.
You have to decide who you are and what you value and believe. Then you can go to others, disassociate and be understanding of them and their point of view...no worries. Afterwards, you just turn around, reassociate with self, and be you again. No loss...teflon. I mean, if I'm not going to be intimate with the person, it doesn't matter to me what they think. If I'm just trying to get the group to get along, it doesn't matter near as much what I think. If I'm just getting the group to agree, I can ignore my own interests and exit stage right as soon as they harmonize. Now, if I want to get close to someone...I have to do recon first to see if we are going to fit. There can be no compromise on certain values and beliefs...this is where I sound more like an Fi at my core. Who knows? Maybe I am an INFP who learned to be an INFJ? (My J/P always flip-flops on tests, but I am clearly INFJ). Yes, I'm that guy who posts on 4year old (or older) videos, because, if you didn't have the decency to notify me, then this is what you get. Ok? Just be glad I decided to post at all. 😅
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that people with savior Fe tend to be more competitive, because they are always comparing themselves with others. It's something I noticed in many ESFJs and ENFJs I know
I can see that. Looking out towards so many people, to the point where you want to match up evenly or better. Didn't know they did the best at school. That's fascinating to me..
@@jlk6916 I'm Si/Ti and I've always been good at school. But I've never been competitive, I simply try to do my best and be better each day. I compete with my ideal self, not with others. My collegues that have savior Fe, in other hand, were always trying to compete with me in school, to get better results than me. And I've never understood why they were doing this, what was the point in turn this in a competition.
@@josehenriquefs888 I said lead/hero Fe and Si apparently do best in school. I'm sure it's for different reasons. Fe wants to please. Si retains information.
@@jlk6916 , I understood what you said. Fe wants to please others, so they want to be good in school. What I was trying to say is that, from my perspective, people with savior Fe seems to be more competitive. They always need to compare their results to other people results. Their competitiveness and their desire to please could explain why they tend to be best in school. Does it make sense to you?
It actually really bothers me. I have a hard time focusing on what people say already, I need every second to process every word. Plus, I am not a native english speaker, so I'm at a double disadvantage here.
@@JesterOfDestiny that is my exact same problem!! In reading books, in watching videos, I have to do it at an extra slow pace to be able to absorb everything! If I miss one word, I get all jittery and stuff
Just when I was accepting I may be an INFP after all, I see this and think NOPE you’ve literally spent you first 30 years obsessed with others opinions of me and my ideas. Maybe it’s true we type ourselves upside down 🙈
Could it be the case that a saviour Te would experience the barbeque problem but with opinions? If I were to gather all my friends together I wouldn't worry about having to play a different character with each group, but I would worry about the different groups comparing their perceptions of my own opinions, since as a double decider I often allow people to think I'm agreeing with them on a particular point when I'm actually just showing my willingness to consider what they're saying.
At 6:38 I literally paused the video and said, “I can imagine that so many of us in our lives are gonna pour much more time into building more for ourselves than that, and whatever it is is still going to crash and burn... anyway-“ and then unpaused the video to see that literally two seconds later the creator had the same train of thought 😭😂 ~ENFP
I’ve been watching Hannah’s content for years and have read her book and she is for sure an infp. I think her insecurity comes from childhood trauma (there’s so much)
Yeah as I was watching this, I related to a lot of what she was saying, and I’m 99.999% positive I’m an infp after years of figuring out my type. I think some of it may also be because I’m a 9w1 enneagram
1:50 this is trully a dream come true and also a nighmare for we ExxJs cause yeah imagine organize your own birthday party inviting your 7 social groups, yeah it would be awesome cause you wont have to make 7 different plans in 7 different places at 7 different hours and days so that would save you a lot time and energy and even money, but imagine how exhaustive would be not being awkward in that party cause you would have to pick just one of yourselves out of the 7 seven you created for the 7 different social groups. lmao
Is this also a savior fe thing? Where you can read room energies and vibes like you walk into a room that had two people fighting before you came in. But when you walked in, no one was fighting. But you get that gut feeling of something is not right.
@Karolína Vostr Yes this is exactly what I am talk about. Its like people try to cover up their real emotions, but it completely leaks. And when I wanted to ask what is really wrong, people get upset too.
Can confirm, that's Fe. Not sure if it can't be demon Fe as well. I assume it's my first function. I don't know how exactly it goes with TP types. If you're an Fe person, this is how you pick up on it. What this also means is that you should watch out a bit how you interact with others. Everyone and their mom's mom is an SFJ. And if you have to argue with mom? Good luck. Don't just not push the logic stuff. No no no. The Nr. 1 thing in arguing with an SFJ is to not scream or get angry. Because it is not arguing itself that is riling her up, it is you getting angry. Her Fe absorbs emotion like a sponge and she'll get angry, too. And that's when logic is done for, for sure.
INFJ here (don’t know which of the 32 types) so, the way my Fe works is that I wear my emotions on my sleeve, and I can pick up on the mood of the room but I don’t feel like my self worth is tied to other people’s opinions. As my good friend and fox hunting partner, Mary J Blige says, “If you got beef your problem not mine.” *thats a line from 30 rock, I don’t actually know MJB or if she hunts foxes lol.
I'm getting really upset about how the size of Shans head randomly seems to change. I can reason that it's the camera and perspective, but like, sometimes her head is a 3rd of the size of Daves, and then sometimes they're like the same size. It's just. What the fuck. One second I'm like "Man, this is interesting and relatabe", and then the next I'm just like "How can this be happening, why are their heads changing sizes so much". What's weirder is Dave's head seems to be like, the unwavering standard of head size, and hers just keeps changing. Why. It poses no existential threat, but the size of their heads in giving me anxiety. Someone plz help. I've been cross referencing videos and it keeps happening.
Because as Dave has said many times, feeling is feeling. Fi and Fe are different "directions" of the same thing. Extroverted judging seeks validation through their engagement with others and making their contribution. Introverted judging seeks recognition for the self being a source of value and having something to offer.
I'm the same (INFP) and I also relate to this so much, especially the whole "being a different person to different people" thing. Made me question my type again...:/
@@_vlean Don't worry that is a typical INFP thing. That is why groups can be difficult - you're so used to adapting to each person that you're forced to make a difficult compromise that suits the dynamic of multiple personalities (rather than sacrificing your Fi ego for the sake of a single group harmony established by everyone, Fe)
I get this video BUT what I dont get about this or the myers-briggs model is why do the function pairs HAVE to be opposite?!? Why cant you be Fi and Ti or Ne and Se? Anyone have an idea?
As far as I understand it, in Objective Personality, it's defined differently, in a way which leaves no other room. There's no shadow functions. Everyone will have two saviours and two demons. Or let's say four, for this instance. There's values and reasons and there's tribe and self. One of each is your saviour, the other one is your demon. If values and tribe happen to both be saviours, that means that both reason and self are demons. This forms the function as seen by OP and there's no way around this simple measure. Saviour Fe and demon Ti in this example. It's the same way with new vs old and intuitive vs sensory. And whichever saviour you like more than the other will have you like the opposite demon less than the other. So if what you like more than anything else are known information and sensory, Si, your biggest demon will be new and intuition, Ne, while tribe vs self and values vs reasons will be more balanced. One big saviour, one small saviour, one small demon and one big demon.
According to the Objective Personality typology, we all have two observer functions (S and N), one is introvert (Oi - organizer, Si or Ni), the other is extrovert (Oe - gatherer, Se or Ne). And we all have two decider functions (T and F), one is introvert (Di - identity, Ti or Fi) and the other is extrovert (De - responsability, Fe or Te). We need to have an Oe to gather information, an Oi to organize the information you already have, a Di to be responsible for ourselves and a De to be responsible for the tribe. That's why the function pairs have to be opposite.
Is this true for all extroverted deciders? ENTJ asking, and I can relate to alot of what she’s saying...not all though, for eg. When someone shuts down my idea, I am disappointed that they are not on the same wavelength as I am, but I’ll still think my idea was fantastic (plus, I can find atleast 10 other people who think so). If my idea has flaws to it, then I’ll be receptive and open to hearing the opinion of a person who is actually knowledgeable and qualified, heck I’d be grateful to learn from them. But if you are just a lay person (even if you happen to be family/friend), then either support my idea, or get out of my way if you don’t like it. It does annoy me because a lot of my ideas and the things I do almost always have to do with the best interest of others, and they take a great deal of time and effort to construct and execute, so when they overlook that, I feel unappreciated, offended, and straight up disrespected, and I just want to shut them off completely.
Which one is the real me? The one who will tell a joke instead of what I really think....The joke was to just butter you up before what I really think...and it's probably not good.
Would not having "the identity attached to the idea" be consistent with savior Ti/demon Fe then? I can very easily recognize the truth in someone's idea, even if I don't like their character as a person, or even if most of their ideas are, uh, let's say not very perceptive or profound. To me, criticizing the idea is not an attack on the person... though many people seem to take it that way. 😥😒🤐 Of course, to recognize the hypocritical flip side of this, when to comes to me and my ideas, I guess I do take it personally when someone criticizes my idea. But it doesn't make me feel dumb or wrong. It just makes me regret speaking up and sharing it. I'm still gonna think, "Fuck you. I'm right. You just don't understand." Lol
I thought the same. It goes both ways, to some extent, I think. For me, personally, a solely idea based conversation about a person someone does not like, would rarely be able to take place completely, without first adressing an evaluation of that person, or the values attached to them. In such cases, I'd have to mention several times that it's not about the values, but the thoughts only. Like a "disclaimer." "I know this is who this person is and I am aware of X, Y and Z. I want to disregard that for a second and only talk about this idea for a moment." A friend recently told me through text that he was critical of an idea I have, but that he would have to explain it to me in person. I asked him to do that then and there because otherwise I wouldn't be able to sleep that night. My heart was pounding like crazy. He insisted and didn't do it and I eventually got distracted and was able to sleep. The next few days, I avoided talking to him too much, only to realize more than a week later that I did so because I was afraid of finding out what the flaws of my idea could possibly be.
@@someonerandom713 Hey, good to hear from you! Interesting. I sometimes feel compelled to give a similar disclaimer, but usually only when someone has already made it apparent they anticipate me reflexively disagreeing with them based on some perceived allegiance. Like they think I'm trolling because "you're a CSJ fan." Just because I see some value in a person's perspective doesn't mean I agree with everything they contend; in fact, I can't think of a single typology UA-camr I agree with 100% of the time. But even if they are wrong on some things, that doesn't detract from the value in whatever insights I find useful. And just because I find something informative, doesn't mean I approve of the person's approach in delivering the message, and vice versa. In my mind it's pretty simple: I believe in giving credit where credit is due and not where it's not due. No one is perfect. Yet people make so many assumptions from an adversarial defensive stance. I actually find the notion of assuming I would blindly follow any one person's ideas just because I like the person rather offensive. I can think for myself. Then again, my view on loyalty is somewhat nontraditional, much to the dismay of some friends and family. I consider myself loyal to no person but loyal only to truth. This means that as long as you are honest and speak the truth, technically I will always be on your side and defend what you have to say. But I will not lie for anyone, or go along with something I don't agree with, just because I'm "supposed to be on their side." If a person's story is a mixture of truth and fabrication or exaggeration, the best I can do is confirm the true parts. The closest I can get to lying is however close saying "I don't feel comfortable discussing that" is to a lie of omission. Wow, I can't imagine feeling so nervous about anticipating someone criticizing my idea. Maybe if the person was someone I intellectually respected and it was an idea I put a lot of work (read: thought) into? But even in that scenario, I would still want to hear it. It would nag at me if I didn't. I'm actually so used to people just "taking my word for it," that often I feel hungry for a differing, if not dissenting, opinion. So long as it's done maturely and unemotionally, I really value having my ideas challenged. Otherwise I cannot perfect and hone them to be airtight down to the last detail. Whenever I post comments mentioning my own type, especially the times I've questioned my type, I always secretly hope that someone will debate with me and try to disprove my theory or prove I'm something else... but that almost never happens. 😢 haha Lately I've had a couple people tell me I "like to argue" and they don't want to argue with me about some random concept they don't really care about. I wonder if you can relate, because with Ti aspirational, I would imagine you are still interested in "knowledge for the sake of knowledge," but that you probably don't like the conflict of debate or having your position challenged. I'd say for me the adrenaline rush has more of a positive connotation, like excitement or exhilaration, as opposed to a negative "heart pounding" feeling.
@@heatherbryant4197 Ok, I'll try to nitpick in the future. I'm afraid I wont find any disagreement, unless I do the Ne thing and twist around things you say just for the fun of it. 😬 My baseline in an unexpected discussion is to look for agreement and clear things up as quickly as possible, so that whoever I'm talking to and I can stand side by side and look together what should be aimed for. But I'll give it a try. Let's say you could be an INFP who's very in love with the idea of being an INTP. An actual INFP could be hurt to be attacked in that way. Besides the fact that you're probably the most INTP INTP I've seen (with seemingly fantastic Fe), I believe most people will not call you out because they got good Fe and don't want to hurt people they've never met and don't know anyways. I can, right now, only recall one instance in which someone one UA-cam challenged which type I am. I explained why I believe so and after a bit of conversation asked them which type they were. I didn't get an answer, but my assumption was INTJ. Regarding your loyalty to truth, I was thinking, if everyone was like this with truth, that would be Ti utopia. Seems almost impossible to me. Way too high of a standard for anyone without "Ti Hero", even though I of course see the value in it. I just can't see myself never exaggerating a story. Not that I'd want to do anyone any harm, I just think some exaggeration at times is part of good story telling. And being so hyper aware of Ti 100% of the time feels like an exhausting idea, to me. Isn't an exaggeration in a positive story pretty similar to downplaying something negative? Like, someone else did something bad, but you don't want them to take all the blame another time, because perhaps you talked it through with them before. I think most INTPs I've met are loyal to truth like that. Not sure about ISTPs, I think it's more hands on truth with them and not so much about theory. I am somewhat politically active - locally - and I found out that a high figure in my party, for the first time ever, to my knowledge, has taken a stance that goes right against my views. I agreed with that person on pretty much every major issue so far, which was a fact that I felt great about. So this was quite a bummer. Blindly nodding to someone, to me, is just a matter of trust. Like, I like this person, I always agree with them, so if you ask me about something they said I haven't heard yet, chances are, I'll continue to agree with them. Of course, you shouldn't close your ears once you have a chance to listen, that would be politically dangerous. I can in fact relate to wanting to argue. It is very situational for me, however. I guess one could call that a subconscious transition. When I am in that mood for an argument, I can also get frustrated when the other person isn't having it. _My_ red line is when the topic changes to something I'm insecure about. As mentioned above, the kind of debates that I like is that in which I already know that the other person and I both seek truth together and that it's broadly staying on topic. It's more of an entertaining exercise with Ti in an Fe approved situation.
It just sounds more or less, as if you're able to distance yourself more from a discussion. Which isn't bad. There's a visible difference between the phrases "I don't agree with that?" and "That's stupid and so are you for believing that." Attacking an idea is simply that. Attacking an abstract concept in the beginning stages of it's making, this seems to be a tribe above self aspect in a person to me. Because as you just stated, Ti-Fe is tying your identity to thoughts and bringing it to the crowd, but the crowd doesn't approve. They think your idea is ridiculous actually. Oh. So now there's two directions this can go. Either you shrug off and ask "What do they suggest then?" Or you defend your idea and say there's nothing wrong with it due to it being apart of who you are and coming from you. Having Two decider functions in the middle is an interesting life for this reason. At least for me, because I default with the first option due to my focus being on accomplishing the task more than personal validation. Being right doesn't matter to me when there's a task to be completed, unless I am sure my idea could've worked better than what we have. It's funny, because I can tell when to push forward with what I want to do, and when to stop and listen to the tribe to see what they want/could suggest. These are good qualities that a leader could possess I imagine. The only reason I refrain from it, is because in true IJ fashion, I prefer to have more control over the tribe than is necessary. Which doesn't work out so well with Te users I imagine, especially considering that many people are more emotionally motivated.
@@someonerandom713 OMG, is that what it feels like for you? That Ne-users twist your words around just for fun? Man, I hope I don't come across like that. I've heard many Ni-users describe the Ne "devil's advocate" approach as if it's some malicious or mischievous game, when in my mind it's the best way I know how to check myself and make sure I'm on the right path, thus figure others will appreciate the insight as well. And I have heard many Ni-users express frustration over Ne-users expanding possibilities when they feel like they've done a lot of work to narrow them down. I suppose I'm guilty of assuming Ni-users simply didn't consider other possibilities diligently. I think any "Ne parent" type is going to see questioning alternative possibilities as the _responsible_ thing to do. Hence, this is part of why INxPs may struggle settling on a singular conclusion for even their own type. It literally feels irresponsible, like I'm rushing to judgement. I later realized this was part of why I ripped into Eric that one time. His methodology was far too hasty for me to approve of. And this is part of the issue I've had with Chase lately too. If I stop and think about it, one of my commonly-used phrases is "let me think about it and get back to you." Lol I see both INTP & INFP as having pros & cons. I actually think INFPs are more likeable overall. So if I were an INFP, I don't think the reason would be being in love with the idea of being an INTP so much. Though, there probably is something to be said about 3rd slot Si and maintaining an identity that is in keeping with the self-narrative we've had in the past, and since I've always tested as INTP (except on Erik Thor's test, which does give me INFP) and identified as an INTP so long, that probably does contribute to INTP feeling like my "home base" and every other type as a "what-if" to ponder. Anyway, thanks for your analysis and perspective. I have also considered ENTP as a possibility, but if I'm honest I don't think my Ne is _that_ good. It's probably more accurate to say my Ne is a tool for my Ti than the other way around. And I'm definitely introverted in the social/colloquial sense. That's interesting that the loyalty to truth concept sounds cumbersome to you, because for me it's the opposite. I've found life in general to much simpler and easier when I revert to total honesty. And I feel less guilty that way. I remember someone once asked me to keep a relationship "off the radar" in order to "keep things simple," and I just remember thinking, "how the hell is that keeping things simple? Isn't juggling a bunch of lies basically the epitome of complicated?" Of course, something like exaggerating a story isn't necessarily a big deal to me, but it does depend on the context. Exaggerating on the witness stand or under penalty of perjury is a huge deal to me. But I don't expect to take everything literally. Hyperbole, colorful language, exaggerated analogies to prove a point, or even sarcasm can all fall under the category of acceptable exceptions by way of poetic license. In the scenario you mentioned, I suppose I do sometimes downplay for Fe reasons. Like if someone asks me if I like them or if they're pretty, "uhhhh..." and I will usually find a way to sidestep the question and give an answer like, "Well, everyone has different preferences, but you have qualities that a lot of people would probably appreciate..." It's kind of a deflection... Find a way to say something that's still true without hurting their feelings. Even then, I still feel like I'm kind of sacrificing some Ti for Fe. It's a hard balance to strike. Thank you. I don't know how good my Fe really is because I think I would have to be able to see from an outside perspective to get an accurate read on that. When I was a little kid, when another student was upset because she felt left out of a group project, the teacher had me go outside and talk to her and make her feel better. That doesn't really seem like something an INTP should be good at as a child, but then again it's something an INTP would certainly take more pleasure in accomplishing. My theory thus far has been that growing up with an INFP mother forced me to develop my Fe. I always felt like I had to walk on egg shells to avoid offending her, especially when criticizing, tip toe around her Fi, and learn how to give some semblance of an emotional reaction when she very clearly wanted me to empathize and express outrage on her behalf over some injustice. I also have a 2w1 in my tritype, which is correlated with Fe. Though I will say I think my Fe falters when I'm acting impulsively -- particularly when I feel pushed to act impulsively and I'm not given space or time to think. With written comments, I can pause and think about how best to word what I want to say. This might be TMI, but I recently got off birth control, and every since then I have felt so much more "like myself." Ever since then, I've felt more confident about being INTP. I haven't cried once in months (not that that's necessarily Fi but the situations that used to make me cry felt kind of like Fi-Si loops), I think more clearly, and another side effect I've noticed is that my Fe seems to have taken a (hopefully temporary) nosedive. While I am far less likely to cry, I'm way more likely to call people out when I think they're wrong or contradicting themselves, and I'm accused of being mean and hurting people's feelings in arguments. I actually think I noticed the difference before anyone else did, or at least before they said anything to me. I feel almost like a lot of the progress I thought I had made with Fe was undone and I was starting at square one again. :/ Before I used to hypothesize that Fe could have a physiological/neurological connection to mirror neurons. Now I'm starting to wonder if there's an endocrine connection either as well or instead. It seems to me that the dip in estrogen or progestins experienced after sudden cessation of hormonal contraception (and subsequent spike in testosterone) made me lean into Ti a bit more at the expense of decreasing my Fe. It probably sounds repugnantly stereotypical to some people to correlate Ti, or any thinking function, with testosterone, and Fe, or any feeling function, with estrogen or progesterone, but I think there might be something to it. What do you think about that? Do you think it could instead be related to the "masculine"/"feminine' orientation of functions?
My INFJ wife doesn't show much sign of not feeling good enough. But when other people are around she will prioritize them. She doesn't even realize she's doing it. "Why did those people keep taking at me for so long?" "Because you asked them like four encouraging open-ended questions after you told them that you liked whatever the eff they said they liked and gave them trust-building eye contact?" "What? No..." "I WAS THERE." Well, she does that until 2Fe runs out and then DOORSLAM.
I think you can't just say De savior for this, Fe is a much bigger culprit. Sure, maybe if youre very dominant Te/inferior Fi, but still can't compare the two
I wish there was better terminology for feeler, because every human feels anger, sadness, happiness, etc. Maybe something along the lines of ethos would be a more accurate characterization.
The Fe of the ENTP is completely underrated.
Cognitive Personality Theory I agree. My ENTP brother describes himself as a feeler to the point where he wants to think he’s an ENFP, but he’s definitely Ti-Fe. Fe emotions can often be stronger than Fi, regardless of the order in the functional stack.
Lemon Sqeez I don’t know if I’d say they’re stronger considering it’s all in our subjective worlds and you can’t feel an Fi users emotions and vice versa. I’ve got a call with Dave next week so I’m excited to gain some clarity on my type but I’m hard leaning on ENTP. He already gave some plausible confirmation as to my ExxP so that’s nice.
How old is your brother?
@Cliven Longsight you have same card cliven😑☯️
Yes! 💯
@@wearejungians what? You can feel an Fi users emotions. Absolutely.
This totally reinforced what I've been more and more convinced of recently that I'm an ENTP jumper. I really want to be a regular ENTP using Ti as a savior, and subconsciously try to present myself that way, but if I'm honest with myself, I've always valued the tribe more than myself, and based decisions on what other people want more than what I truly want.
The part that's messing up my head is that I think doing this is really bad for me and makes me unhappy, and when I actually do use Ti instead of Fe to make decisions, I feel guilty but in the end feel more at peace rather than always resenting that other person and myself for ignoring what I wanted. This makes me sort of buy into the "Ne Fe loop" that people talk about as a negative, unhealthy state to be in, rather than what OP says about how half of ENTPs are just naturally jumpers and always will be. I don't want to be a jumper anymore, I want to use Ti :(
I know I know I just need to find balance between the two or whatever. ugh.
I’m an ENTP and possible jumper as well. I find myself making decisions because I feel like it’s best for me, not think. Then again, and majority of the time, I use Ti to make my decisions; especially the important ones. But reading this made me want to give you some Fe affection and let you know that it’s okay to be unhappy about it but also see the light in the darkness. You have the ability to use both, and that’s pretty dope!
This one was the most helpful in seeing my De. Thank you Shannon for sharing yourself in these ways so openly.
Yay, finally a saviour Fe video! I have been trying to work out what Fe is doing with emotions/self in a Double Decider. She kind of spoke out what I had realised over my teenage years and up to now (no you don't get my age). I was actually just saying to my friend and mother the past three months or so that I need to just let people hear what I actually think and then they can decide for themselves if they like me or not, considering it- I can sense that people really want the real you (at least some do) and they can sense the sort of manipulative hand of the Fe trying to please. So many thoughts on this, and also just how much it reminds me of my whole life- she even said things similar to how I felt/worded things as a young, young child.
2:39 Exactly how I feel. It’s like I’m not allowed to be interested in something or excited for it if someone I care about doesn’t respond well.
Man, that is some Lavender Town-ass music at the end. Pokemon fans, you know what I'm talking about.
The Fi "I need people to like what I like" thing is interesting, it's something that I might have identified with when I was younger but I've realized I actually don't have. As Ti/Fe, I don't really care whether you personally like the things I do, I just need you to accept that I like them. Where I do get weirder is when someone comes after my reasons for liking something, since I do have reasons that I could probably explain, but they're personal and I'm not confident that people will get it (or that I can explain them well enough).
@Cliven Longsightsame here , but i notice it depends on( number )of those who like or dislike your tastes when you are around of many , even if you have high resistance, you would be very uncomfortable , because you want them to like it , it make peaceful connection , i believe Fi feel uncomfortable too but the reason is different, they don't care if you like it or not but they hate rudeness.
@Cliven Longsight I'm talking about tastes not logical opinions man , tastes come from emotions and what people like or they don't , i meant when someone tell you I don't like your t-shirt for example , dom Fe effected highly with this opinion, but in your case and mine, it's not , but you still going feel uncomfortable about something you thought it's perfect taste for you but turned out there someone else don't like it , in this scenario , it still ok and who cares, but if you were with best friends of yours and all of them said your t-shit is was bad choice , a thought will jump to the head , wishper to you that you should consider to change your t-shirt next time , even if you ignore this thought , but the point here Fe will always try to do these uncomfortable wishpers , convince you to fit with others tastes, which is sucks , even if you have high resistance, it won't change the nature of Fe , i have creative tastes and really don't change my tastes no matter what other people say , but like I said , Fe will make sure to make you uncomfortable with others when they all against your taste.
@Cliven Longsight we are in same boat , and to answer the first questions , it's not about Fe alone rather than how Ne Ti Fe * Ni Ti Fe acts
1-(What do you personally feel and think while maintaining your shirt choice, at odds with your friends' collective opinion against that choice?)
that my personality as whole is different from them even if my feelings try to push me to the corner , but it had no chance against my stronger functions..
2-(It sounds like you are internally relegating (perceiving/framing) the choice as being completely subjective, without examining it for any logical root causes, or even examining the emotional underpinnings for their root causes: is this is how you generally proceed, day to day? Also, what, if anything, do you say to them about maintaining your choice?)
hmm i always rely on my Ti as best defence against any control from others , that why i told you we are same boat ( in this particular point ), because i always cut me self using logic against who want to change my tastes , and a lot of times using examples from the real world to those who against my taste to prove how much they wrong when there is no reason to go against my taste , and yes i rely heavily on internal world , there i can dismantling each point of view - words - roots ...
but here the thing , if you examining Fx roots alone without influence from other function , you would see tastes have nothing to do with logic , even if you cut off everyone who against your taste , this won't change the fact how they see your taste , they can't use logic to tell you why they hate black color , or why they like red , even if you asked them , they will give you superficial reasons , for example if you ask someone why you like black , he could say because it reflects my personality , but why black reflects your personality , the answer could be i feel warm in darkness , why do you feel like this in darkness etc..
you can see if you keep digging to understand tastes source, you always back to environment - experiences - memories - imagination , that why using logic and reasons against tastes is just an ego defence mechanism against outside influence , but deep down logic and emotions are separated completely from each other , (Fe alone) are weak against outside attacks including tastes - (Fi alone) have high and strong closed defence emotional system , including tastes
and since you and me have strong identity ( logical type ) , tastes influence from the others have strong impact at first impression (Fe alone) since it designed to deal with emotions at first , and it fall down to the dust when Ti stand against it, i think your Ni give you extra point against influence from others , internal world always fascinating , no one will understand that until they see how huge and perfect it is : D
@Cliven Longsight Do you know what your type is? (Particularly the masculine and feminine orientation of the deciders). I'm pretty sure I'm F-Ti/M-Fe which would be why I get more self-conscious about my personal reasons, since they're more movable (F-Ti), but if someone attacks them directly I may get more animated and start verbally punching back (or literally punching back, in rare extreme cases).
@Cliven Longsight good question , i tried to flip Ne to Ni , it didn't give me what i'm looking for because as you know Ne can't choose , it just show you endless patterns and roads , i did tricky solution , since i have Si and i understand it deep down , i just flipped the direction from past to future, (without losing the internal focus) , which is very important to understand how Ni see things , i can say this experience forced me to see my Ne very annoying and ridiculous , (i'm very good at been in others shoes literally not metaphorically) , this increase my knowledge about the world from all point of views which i hope one day lead to wisdom : D
but if you look at entropy ,they defined it as chaos, but i can see it as system that have goal , that why i believe Ne do what it meant to do for reason that i don't understand yet , there must be goal for Ne to do what it does , i don't find it as satisfactory answer when black create conclusions about white based on how black see it self , or the opposite , my ambition to see what it beyond this..
now for tracking back the origin of emotions , and how can create it self , so we can understand if there any link that say tastes could come from innar source , i doubt if this possible , since all child's are automatically sleep under subconscious control , and human don't have access to that area which is very important to know how the subconscious collect tastes and emotions and what it based on exactly , i said this because you made me think about what if not all tastes coming from outside world , what if there is a basic code that includes basics tastes in the subconscious , a primal tastes ..
if you know any book or scientist track back these lines to the sources please give me link , but i doubt anyone can do such claim , because they have to access to subconscious vault first.
That fucking sentence was a fucking healing statement for me. My Fi is applauding. A lot of people want to become NTJs but I hate it. I wish I am more of an NTP/NFP but watching these videos make me relaxed and stop worrying about the outside world, just my inner bubble and who / what are in it.
That last message was very impactful, and timely. Thank you guys for your awesome work. Great post!
I'm an INFP and not gonna lie, I relate to some of these things. 5:05 are great words Shannon, thank you.
Hahaha! Yup. If someone tears down what I say with reasons, my feminine Te is forced to concede and my masculine Fi will stop enjoying what I was explaining pretty much full stop.
Interesting to note, when someone gives me Fe negative feelings via anger or hate, my recipient Fi flares up and gets resentful immediately. I start thinking of ways to "break contact with the enemy" permanently such that it never happens again, but since my Fi is masculine, I won't compromise to fulfill it - I plot and move to conquer and take up residence in my angry opponent's domain. Retreat, according to my intuition, only invites persuit.
Exactly! I relate a lot to this.
My mom's an ENFJ, and it's sad how little time she has for herself. It's also fascinating that she has the exact same order of cognitive functions as me, except in the opposite introvert vs extrovert status for all of them.
Hmm I'm an INFP (I think) and relate pretty strongly to this. I do think the whole persona thing where you bring multiple groups together and get nervous is universal but who knows.
Wow, this really hit home. I'm an ENTP and i believe Fe Savior.. I have been driving myself mad over thinking if people like me, dislike me, especially during quarantine this year. I have not seen any friends, and my social life has been resorted to social media. I also lost my business due to the pandemic, and my identity/confidence. I keep wondering why i panic, thinking about past relationships gone wrong, feel this freak out feeling... then the next day comes and Im better. It must be my underdeveloped Fe!
Does anybody else relate, I would love to talk about this to develop.. its like a mental illness!
Geez Savior Fe sounds exhausting. I have it as a 3rd function but I just whip it out when I need to have fun or convince someone of something I want them to do and then put it away when I’ve accomplished it.
1:50 and 4:33 wow I think about this all the time and you just verbalized that so well. Really makes you think. Also OMG I DID NOT EXPECT THE DOMINO VIDEOS AT THE END. omg i’m freaking out because i’m a domino builder and know all of those videos!! I wonder if you may have stumbled across some of my videos xD But yeah, using dominoes is a great analogy!
I just went to go watch some of your videos from this, and I can’t even imagine your patience in setting up so many elaborate domino paths so often!! Woahhhh!!! 👏👏
Great advice from Shan. 😊
Oh, good old Fi.... When I get personally offended because someone doesn't like something I like, oh yes.
I similar issues and I have demon M-Fi. Ideas feel less personal to me, but values feel very personal. To those with Ti it's provably the other way around. Also my Te is feminine so there is more wiggle room there.
@@mauraliller6 same, M-Fi, F-Te. I'm really movable when it comes to ideas and how things should work (unless it's a way outside my comfort zone box, then my demon Se takes over and even other people's opinions don't matter anymore)
But I've been this way my whole life
"I'm not going to like pink just because I'm a girl and people say girls like pink, you know what? I think I'm gonna hate it"
"I'm not going to like Harry Potter just because the whole world likes it, I don't like it, and that's that"
But it's not like I don't like popular things, sometimes I do, but just not because they're popular.
My mother and sister constantly say to me "you don't have to take it to heart", but dang it I'm so passionate about the things I like, I can't help it. My whole identity is built around the things I like
@@einsame_Maria Harry Potter is good dammit! :p
Indeed Op. I have Fi and not often do I get upset when someone doesn't like something I like. It opens the doors towards me trying to figure out why that is.
As an FM-Ne/Ti-CP/B(S) (ENTP), my Fe is masculine, double activated, yet it's a demon so it's very sensitive but my Ti always wins. It makes me feel very conflicted especially when I'm trying to impress people(which is most of the time) but my Ti disagrees with other people's perspectives. I end up criticizing poor ideas, and most people don't enjoy that. I just end up coming off like a dick. I'm hyper aware of people's reactions to my disagreements and I end up getting irritated with myself.
We have a similar setup, though different modalities and letters. If you commit (Oi) to a friendship/group, consistently check in on their needs (De), and disclose your own problems (Oi+Di), they'll love you and you'll be proud of yourself. You'll remember that emotions are part of the game and you'll sense your ideas getting across.
@@dylonias that's 100% true
Funny, i have the same name as you. Another funny thing, my kik account has the same pfp as you, and so does a groupchat im in.
If your Fe is masculine, then your Ti is feminine. Since Ti is second in your stack, and the second letter in the gender designation refers to this second function, shouldn't you come off as FF and not FM?
@@AlastorTheNPDemon the letters don't correlate to function order. I'm pretty sure the first is linked to your sensory function and the second is linked to your extroverted decider. At least that's what it used to be.
Im an INTP and Fe is the last function in my stack but still a lot of this applies to me...
I think the biggest difference between having Fe as a savior or as a demon is how much time and energy you spend to manage what people think of you
@@josehenriquefs888 yeah, and possibly how good u are at managing peoples opinions too
@@tortugatech You get good at whatever you do consistently
Dusan hey INTP I think u have to develop fe, similar to how MLK an ENFJ learned to use T.i
Same here. Since Fe is our Demon, if we don´t develop it it just shows itself in form of some of our insecurities
Thank you wonderful woman!!!!! I've been trying to put this into words even before the psychological types!!
Bravo ! The dominoes in reverse felt amazing. ,, from an infj mom of 2 boys ( almost 2& 3 years old,birthdays this month) . I am a poet,musician with a science degree . And lately I try to detach completely from how bad all of the little messes around the house feel after a lot of hard work .. coming from an infj lol. I have been successful in the detaching to a large degree. I want to find out more info about my subtype in the future. . More dominoes or fast growing flowers . Love you guys!,
There was a Brit series on being British and they all agreed you don't invite your different "Segments" of people to the same party (friends/work/gamer, etc.) because that would be totally, freakily weird and horrible if they actually met each other.
Since I discovered you guys I've been questioning my type, never had 100% sure about anything, but after that I am almost sure that I have feminine Te savior.
I think it is the secondary, but never knows, maybe can be my dominant.
Thank you for the content!
Like she said in the video, it is Fe-saviour common to not know how much other people influence you (low Ti is blind to internal processes and their connections to the outside world).
WHY AM I CRYING?
Sh*t, I didn't plan having another identity crisis meltdown this week.
I (Te) live this every day. Letting Fi out seems so selfish but it’s so necessary for peace of mind.
But you're harsh doing that.
I fall back too much on my Fi, and I wish I had peace of mind.
4:47- A summary of my social standing with the tribe
sublimely confidence building: both the preceding explanation and ending demonstration
I feel like IxxP's also relate to these points... It's funny how that works
Every side of me is the real me. 🙂 I just play up certain aspects to get what I want from a certain group better.
If someone ever gets offended that they never saw a side of me coming, thats on them and their blind Ni! I was always me, they just never asked the right questions to know what they ought to have picked up on.
It’s none of my business what other people do and what they think unless it implicates and involves me. This is their Di, its their job to figure it out. It’s not my problem if someone is dumb.
You have to decide who you are and what you value and believe. Then you can go to others, disassociate and be understanding of them and their point of view...no worries. Afterwards, you just turn around, reassociate with self, and be you again. No loss...teflon. I mean, if I'm not going to be intimate with the person, it doesn't matter to me what they think. If I'm just trying to get the group to get along, it doesn't matter near as much what I think. If I'm just getting the group to agree, I can ignore my own interests and exit stage right as soon as they harmonize.
Now, if I want to get close to someone...I have to do recon first to see if we are going to fit. There can be no compromise on certain values and beliefs...this is where I sound more like an Fi at my core. Who knows? Maybe I am an INFP who learned to be an INFJ? (My J/P always flip-flops on tests, but I am clearly INFJ).
Yes, I'm that guy who posts on 4year old (or older) videos, because, if you didn't have the decency to notify me, then this is what you get. Ok? Just be glad I decided to post at all. 😅
MEEEEEEEEE
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that people with savior Fe tend to be more competitive, because they are always comparing themselves with others. It's something I noticed in many ESFJs and ENFJs I know
Apparently savior Fe and Si tend to do best in school. Always theorized Fe was competitive to please.
I can see that. Looking out towards so many people, to the point where you want to match up evenly or better. Didn't know they did the best at school. That's fascinating to me..
@@jlk6916 I'm Si/Ti and I've always been good at school. But I've never been competitive, I simply try to do my best and be better each day. I compete with my ideal self, not with others.
My collegues that have savior Fe, in other hand, were always trying to compete with me in school, to get better results than me. And I've never understood why they were doing this, what was the point in turn this in a competition.
@@josehenriquefs888 I said lead/hero Fe and Si apparently do best in school. I'm sure it's for different reasons. Fe wants to please. Si retains information.
@@jlk6916 , I understood what you said. Fe wants to please others, so they want to be good in school. What I was trying to say is that, from my perspective, people with savior Fe seems to be more competitive. They always need to compare their results to other people results. Their competitiveness and their desire to please could explain why they tend to be best in school. Does it make sense to you?
Somehow, some way, this is all gonna help me get through this Bay Area power outage.
I'm sure of it.
Is watching every video on 1.5 speed a demon consume thing??? 😝
Nah it's not really, i'm lead consume (or so i think at least) and i do it sometimes cuz i get bored and want to get the information Faster
It actually really bothers me. I have a hard time focusing on what people say already, I need every second to process every word. Plus, I am not a native english speaker, so I'm at a double disadvantage here.
I talked about this to an ENTP recently, who said he often skips more than half of whatever he's watching because he wants to consume faster.
They already talk fast and its hard to absorb the concepts as it is, how do you manage man:"D
@@JesterOfDestiny that is my exact same problem!! In reading books, in watching videos, I have to do it at an extra slow pace to be able to absorb everything! If I miss one word, I get all jittery and stuff
Did you notice that all those Si dominoes guys all kind of looked alike. I've often noticed that with Si/Te doms. They definitely resemble each other.
Just when I was accepting I may be an INFP after all, I see this and think NOPE you’ve literally spent you first 30 years obsessed with others opinions of me and my ideas. Maybe it’s true we type ourselves upside down 🙈
Yeah i feel the same.. but.. but.. estj? Aaaa can i be something else 😢😂
Could it be the case that a saviour Te would experience the barbeque problem but with opinions? If I were to gather all my friends together I wouldn't worry about having to play a different character with each group, but I would worry about the different groups comparing their perceptions of my own opinions, since as a double decider I often allow people to think I'm agreeing with them on a particular point when I'm actually just showing my willingness to consider what they're saying.
At 6:38 I literally paused the video and said, “I can imagine that so many of us in our lives are gonna pour much more time into building more for ourselves than that, and whatever it is is still going to crash and burn... anyway-“ and then unpaused the video to see that literally two seconds later the creator had the same train of thought 😭😂 ~ENFP
If people were insecure they wouldn't be putting the negative frequency on it, it's positive.
4:30 Shanny is a G! Love her!
Is there any way INFPs feel like that too? Or Saviour Di? I've been typed as INFP but I really relate to this video
I’ve been watching Hannah’s content for years and have read her book and she is for sure an infp. I think her insecurity comes from childhood trauma (there’s so much)
Yeah as I was watching this, I related to a lot of what she was saying, and I’m 99.999% positive I’m an infp after years of figuring out my type. I think some of it may also be because I’m a 9w1 enneagram
1:50 this is trully a dream come true and also a nighmare for we ExxJs cause yeah imagine organize your own birthday party inviting your 7 social groups, yeah it would be awesome cause you wont have to make 7 different plans in 7 different places at 7 different hours and days so that would save you a lot time and energy and even money, but imagine how exhaustive would be not being awkward in that party cause you would have to pick just one of yourselves out of the 7 seven you created for the 7 different social groups. lmao
1:51 I can't find my type yet, but what is said here is so me.
I never related to something so much...
Definitely agree with you at 5:10ish or whatever
2:32 Yeeeeeah...
Is this also a savior fe thing? Where you can read room energies and vibes like you walk into a room that had two people fighting before you came in. But when you walked in, no one was fighting. But you get that gut feeling of something is not right.
@Karolína Vostr Yes this is exactly what I am talk about. Its like people try to cover up their real emotions, but it completely leaks. And when I wanted to ask what is really wrong, people get upset too.
Can confirm, that's Fe. Not sure if it can't be demon Fe as well. I assume it's my first function. I don't know how exactly it goes with TP types.
If you're an Fe person, this is how you pick up on it. What this also means is that you should watch out a bit how you interact with others. Everyone and their mom's mom is an SFJ. And if you have to argue with mom? Good luck. Don't just not push the logic stuff. No no no. The Nr. 1 thing in arguing with an SFJ is to not scream or get angry. Because it is not arguing itself that is riling her up, it is you getting angry. Her Fe absorbs emotion like a sponge and she'll get angry, too. And that's when logic is done for, for sure.
INFJ here (don’t know which of the 32 types) so, the way my Fe works is that I wear my emotions on my sleeve, and I can pick up on the mood of the room but I don’t feel like my self worth is tied to other people’s opinions. As my good friend and fox hunting partner, Mary J Blige says, “If you got beef your problem not mine.” *thats a line from 30 rock, I don’t actually know MJB or if she hunts foxes lol.
I'm getting really upset about how the size of Shans head randomly seems to change.
I can reason that it's the camera and perspective, but like, sometimes her head is a 3rd of the size of Daves, and then sometimes they're like the same size.
It's just. What the fuck. One second I'm like "Man, this is interesting and relatabe", and then the next I'm just like "How can this be happening, why are their heads changing sizes so much".
What's weirder is Dave's head seems to be like, the unwavering standard of head size, and hers just keeps changing.
Why.
It poses no existential threat, but the size of their heads in giving me anxiety. Someone plz help.
I've been cross referencing videos and it keeps happening.
I shouldn't be this upset and wound up about it, but I can't stop thinking about it.
What? I don’t see this head size change that you’re referencing
Also relax, no one can change the size of their heads in matter of seconds
Could someone give me the specific differences between Fe and Te in the savior state and what that looks like?
I’m definitely not Fe... thank god.
Ok sociopath
@@Rokiotop900 Fe sucks so I get what he's saying
It seems like it would be easier to be savior Fe. I could more easily fit in with all the scary people. My worst phobias would practically be gone.
I act like myself around prettymuch everyone so I don’t have this problem.
How does this work for INFJ? They have aux Fe, but are double observers, so not weird about people.. right?
I've been typed as infp then WHY IS THIS ME???? I relate to this so much. wtf.
Because as Dave has said many times, feeling is feeling. Fi and Fe are different "directions" of the same thing.
Extroverted judging seeks validation through their engagement with others and making their contribution. Introverted judging seeks recognition for the self being a source of value and having something to offer.
Maybe you're wrong about your type
@@tawanakombora_19 Probably not. "Optimistic nihilist" is INFP in a nutshell. lol
I'm the same (INFP) and I also relate to this so much, especially the whole "being a different person to different people" thing. Made me question my type again...:/
@@_vlean Don't worry that is a typical INFP thing. That is why groups can be difficult - you're so used to adapting to each person that you're forced to make a difficult compromise that suits the dynamic of multiple personalities (rather than sacrificing your Fi ego for the sake of a single group harmony established by everyone, Fe)
Goddammit this is so reletable that it hurts
Maybe I’m not TE Fi because I haven’t had a problem getting butt hurt about ideas
I get this video BUT what I dont get about this or the myers-briggs model is why do the function pairs HAVE to be opposite?!? Why cant you be Fi and Ti or Ne and Se? Anyone have an idea?
True, I identify myself with both Ne and Se
As far as I understand it, in Objective Personality, it's defined differently, in a way which leaves no other room. There's no shadow functions. Everyone will have two saviours and two demons. Or let's say four, for this instance. There's values and reasons and there's tribe and self. One of each is your saviour, the other one is your demon. If values and tribe happen to both be saviours, that means that both reason and self are demons. This forms the function as seen by OP and there's no way around this simple measure. Saviour Fe and demon Ti in this example. It's the same way with new vs old and intuitive vs sensory. And whichever saviour you like more than the other will have you like the opposite demon less than the other. So if what you like more than anything else are known information and sensory, Si, your biggest demon will be new and intuition, Ne, while tribe vs self and values vs reasons will be more balanced. One big saviour, one small saviour, one small demon and one big demon.
According to the Objective Personality typology, we all have two observer functions (S and N), one is introvert (Oi - organizer, Si or Ni), the other is extrovert (Oe - gatherer, Se or Ne). And we all have two decider functions (T and F), one is introvert (Di - identity, Ti or Fi) and the other is extrovert (De - responsability, Fe or Te). We need to have an Oe to gather information, an Oi to organize the information you already have, a Di to be responsible for ourselves and a De to be responsible for the tribe. That's why the function pairs have to be opposite.
If someone doesn't like my idea, I just check in with an other person. ENTP.
so which is the difference bettwen ENTP With Fe vs a ESFJ with Ne?
Is this true for all extroverted deciders? ENTJ asking, and I can relate to alot of what she’s saying...not all though, for eg. When someone shuts down my idea, I am disappointed that they are not on the same wavelength as I am, but I’ll still think my idea was fantastic (plus, I can find atleast 10 other people who think so). If my idea has flaws to it, then I’ll be receptive and open to hearing the opinion of a person who is actually knowledgeable and qualified, heck I’d be grateful to learn from them. But if you are just a lay person (even if you happen to be family/friend), then either support my idea, or get out of my way if you don’t like it. It does annoy me because a lot of my ideas and the things I do almost always have to do with the best interest of others, and they take a great deal of time and effort to construct and execute, so when they overlook that, I feel unappreciated, offended, and straight up disrespected, and I just want to shut them off completely.
I love BBQ's!
I resemble this
oohh shiittt
Which one is the real me? The one who will tell a joke instead of what I really think....The joke was to just butter you up before what I really think...and it's probably not good.
Would not having "the identity attached to the idea" be consistent with savior Ti/demon Fe then? I can very easily recognize the truth in someone's idea, even if I don't like their character as a person, or even if most of their ideas are, uh, let's say not very perceptive or profound. To me, criticizing the idea is not an attack on the person... though many people seem to take it that way. 😥😒🤐
Of course, to recognize the hypocritical flip side of this, when to comes to me and my ideas, I guess I do take it personally when someone criticizes my idea. But it doesn't make me feel dumb or wrong. It just makes me regret speaking up and sharing it. I'm still gonna think, "Fuck you. I'm right. You just don't understand." Lol
I thought the same. It goes both ways, to some extent, I think. For me, personally, a solely idea based conversation about a person someone does not like, would rarely be able to take place completely, without first adressing an evaluation of that person, or the values attached to them. In such cases, I'd have to mention several times that it's not about the values, but the thoughts only. Like a "disclaimer." "I know this is who this person is and I am aware of X, Y and Z. I want to disregard that for a second and only talk about this idea for a moment."
A friend recently told me through text that he was critical of an idea I have, but that he would have to explain it to me in person. I asked him to do that then and there because otherwise I wouldn't be able to sleep that night. My heart was pounding like crazy. He insisted and didn't do it and I eventually got distracted and was able to sleep. The next few days, I avoided talking to him too much, only to realize more than a week later that I did so because I was afraid of finding out what the flaws of my idea could possibly be.
@@someonerandom713 Hey, good to hear from you! Interesting. I sometimes feel compelled to give a similar disclaimer, but usually only when someone has already made it apparent they anticipate me reflexively disagreeing with them based on some perceived allegiance. Like they think I'm trolling because "you're a CSJ fan." Just because I see some value in a person's perspective doesn't mean I agree with everything they contend; in fact, I can't think of a single typology UA-camr I agree with 100% of the time. But even if they are wrong on some things, that doesn't detract from the value in whatever insights I find useful. And just because I find something informative, doesn't mean I approve of the person's approach in delivering the message, and vice versa. In my mind it's pretty simple: I believe in giving credit where credit is due and not where it's not due. No one is perfect. Yet people make so many assumptions from an adversarial defensive stance.
I actually find the notion of assuming I would blindly follow any one person's ideas just because I like the person rather offensive. I can think for myself. Then again, my view on loyalty is somewhat nontraditional, much to the dismay of some friends and family. I consider myself loyal to no person but loyal only to truth. This means that as long as you are honest and speak the truth, technically I will always be on your side and defend what you have to say. But I will not lie for anyone, or go along with something I don't agree with, just because I'm "supposed to be on their side." If a person's story is a mixture of truth and fabrication or exaggeration, the best I can do is confirm the true parts. The closest I can get to lying is however close saying "I don't feel comfortable discussing that" is to a lie of omission.
Wow, I can't imagine feeling so nervous about anticipating someone criticizing my idea. Maybe if the person was someone I intellectually respected and it was an idea I put a lot of work (read: thought) into? But even in that scenario, I would still want to hear it. It would nag at me if I didn't. I'm actually so used to people just "taking my word for it," that often I feel hungry for a differing, if not dissenting, opinion. So long as it's done maturely and unemotionally, I really value having my ideas challenged. Otherwise I cannot perfect and hone them to be airtight down to the last detail. Whenever I post comments mentioning my own type, especially the times I've questioned my type, I always secretly hope that someone will debate with me and try to disprove my theory or prove I'm something else... but that almost never happens. 😢 haha Lately I've had a couple people tell me I "like to argue" and they don't want to argue with me about some random concept they don't really care about. I wonder if you can relate, because with Ti aspirational, I would imagine you are still interested in "knowledge for the sake of knowledge," but that you probably don't like the conflict of debate or having your position challenged. I'd say for me the adrenaline rush has more of a positive connotation, like excitement or exhilaration, as opposed to a negative "heart pounding" feeling.
@@heatherbryant4197 Ok, I'll try to nitpick in the future. I'm afraid I wont find any disagreement, unless I do the Ne thing and twist around things you say just for the fun of it. 😬 My baseline in an unexpected discussion is to look for agreement and clear things up as quickly as possible, so that whoever I'm talking to and I can stand side by side and look together what should be aimed for.
But I'll give it a try. Let's say you could be an INFP who's very in love with the idea of being an INTP. An actual INFP could be hurt to be attacked in that way. Besides the fact that you're probably the most INTP INTP I've seen (with seemingly fantastic Fe), I believe most people will not call you out because they got good Fe and don't want to hurt people they've never met and don't know anyways. I can, right now, only recall one instance in which someone one UA-cam challenged which type I am. I explained why I believe so and after a bit of conversation asked them which type they were. I didn't get an answer, but my assumption was INTJ.
Regarding your loyalty to truth, I was thinking, if everyone was like this with truth, that would be Ti utopia. Seems almost impossible to me. Way too high of a standard for anyone without "Ti Hero", even though I of course see the value in it. I just can't see myself never exaggerating a story. Not that I'd want to do anyone any harm, I just think some exaggeration at times is part of good story telling. And being so hyper aware of Ti 100% of the time feels like an exhausting idea, to me. Isn't an exaggeration in a positive story pretty similar to downplaying something negative? Like, someone else did something bad, but you don't want them to take all the blame another time, because perhaps you talked it through with them before.
I think most INTPs I've met are loyal to truth like that. Not sure about ISTPs, I think it's more hands on truth with them and not so much about theory.
I am somewhat politically active - locally - and I found out that a high figure in my party, for the first time ever, to my knowledge, has taken a stance that goes right against my views. I agreed with that person on pretty much every major issue so far, which was a fact that I felt great about. So this was quite a bummer. Blindly nodding to someone, to me, is just a matter of trust. Like, I like this person, I always agree with them, so if you ask me about something they said I haven't heard yet, chances are, I'll continue to agree with them. Of course, you shouldn't close your ears once you have a chance to listen, that would be politically dangerous.
I can in fact relate to wanting to argue. It is very situational for me, however. I guess one could call that a subconscious transition. When I am in that mood for an argument, I can also get frustrated when the other person isn't having it. _My_ red line is when the topic changes to something I'm insecure about. As mentioned above, the kind of debates that I like is that in which I already know that the other person and I both seek truth together and that it's broadly staying on topic. It's more of an entertaining exercise with Ti in an Fe approved situation.
It just sounds more or less, as if you're able to distance yourself more from a discussion. Which isn't bad. There's a visible difference between the phrases "I don't agree with that?" and "That's stupid and so are you for believing that." Attacking an idea is simply that. Attacking an abstract concept in the beginning stages of it's making, this seems to be a tribe above self aspect in a person to me. Because as you just stated, Ti-Fe is tying your identity to thoughts and bringing it to the crowd, but the crowd doesn't approve. They think your idea is ridiculous actually. Oh. So now there's two directions this can go. Either you shrug off and ask "What do they suggest then?" Or you defend your idea and say there's nothing wrong with it due to it being apart of who you are and coming from you. Having Two decider functions in the middle is an interesting life for this reason. At least for me, because I default with the first option due to my focus being on accomplishing the task more than personal validation. Being right doesn't matter to me when there's a task to be completed, unless I am sure my idea could've worked better than what we have. It's funny, because I can tell when to push forward with what I want to do, and when to stop and listen to the tribe to see what they want/could suggest. These are good qualities that a leader could possess I imagine. The only reason I refrain from it, is because in true IJ fashion, I prefer to have more control over the tribe than is necessary. Which doesn't work out so well with Te users I imagine, especially considering that many people are more emotionally motivated.
@@someonerandom713 OMG, is that what it feels like for you? That Ne-users twist your words around just for fun? Man, I hope I don't come across like that. I've heard many Ni-users describe the Ne "devil's advocate" approach as if it's some malicious or mischievous game, when in my mind it's the best way I know how to check myself and make sure I'm on the right path, thus figure others will appreciate the insight as well. And I have heard many Ni-users express frustration over Ne-users expanding possibilities when they feel like they've done a lot of work to narrow them down. I suppose I'm guilty of assuming Ni-users simply didn't consider other possibilities diligently.
I think any "Ne parent" type is going to see questioning alternative possibilities as the _responsible_ thing to do. Hence, this is part of why INxPs may struggle settling on a singular conclusion for even their own type. It literally feels irresponsible, like I'm rushing to judgement. I later realized this was part of why I ripped into Eric that one time. His methodology was far too hasty for me to approve of. And this is part of the issue I've had with Chase lately too. If I stop and think about it, one of my commonly-used phrases is "let me think about it and get back to you." Lol
I see both INTP & INFP as having pros & cons. I actually think INFPs are more likeable overall. So if I were an INFP, I don't think the reason would be being in love with the idea of being an INTP so much. Though, there probably is something to be said about 3rd slot Si and maintaining an identity that is in keeping with the self-narrative we've had in the past, and since I've always tested as INTP (except on Erik Thor's test, which does give me INFP) and identified as an INTP so long, that probably does contribute to INTP feeling like my "home base" and every other type as a "what-if" to ponder.
Anyway, thanks for your analysis and perspective. I have also considered ENTP as a possibility, but if I'm honest I don't think my Ne is _that_ good. It's probably more accurate to say my Ne is a tool for my Ti than the other way around. And I'm definitely introverted in the social/colloquial sense.
That's interesting that the loyalty to truth concept sounds cumbersome to you, because for me it's the opposite. I've found life in general to much simpler and easier when I revert to total honesty. And I feel less guilty that way. I remember someone once asked me to keep a relationship "off the radar" in order to "keep things simple," and I just remember thinking, "how the hell is that keeping things simple? Isn't juggling a bunch of lies basically the epitome of complicated?" Of course, something like exaggerating a story isn't necessarily a big deal to me, but it does depend on the context. Exaggerating on the witness stand or under penalty of perjury is a huge deal to me. But I don't expect to take everything literally. Hyperbole, colorful language, exaggerated analogies to prove a point, or even sarcasm can all fall under the category of acceptable exceptions by way of poetic license. In the scenario you mentioned, I suppose I do sometimes downplay for Fe reasons. Like if someone asks me if I like them or if they're pretty, "uhhhh..." and I will usually find a way to sidestep the question and give an answer like, "Well, everyone has different preferences, but you have qualities that a lot of people would probably appreciate..." It's kind of a deflection... Find a way to say something that's still true without hurting their feelings. Even then, I still feel like I'm kind of sacrificing some Ti for Fe. It's a hard balance to strike.
Thank you. I don't know how good my Fe really is because I think I would have to be able to see from an outside perspective to get an accurate read on that. When I was a little kid, when another student was upset because she felt left out of a group project, the teacher had me go outside and talk to her and make her feel better. That doesn't really seem like something an INTP should be good at as a child, but then again it's something an INTP would certainly take more pleasure in accomplishing. My theory thus far has been that growing up with an INFP mother forced me to develop my Fe. I always felt like I had to walk on egg shells to avoid offending her, especially when criticizing, tip toe around her Fi, and learn how to give some semblance of an emotional reaction when she very clearly wanted me to empathize and express outrage on her behalf over some injustice. I also have a 2w1 in my tritype, which is correlated with Fe. Though I will say I think my Fe falters when I'm acting impulsively -- particularly when I feel pushed to act impulsively and I'm not given space or time to think. With written comments, I can pause and think about how best to word what I want to say.
This might be TMI, but I recently got off birth control, and every since then I have felt so much more "like myself." Ever since then, I've felt more confident about being INTP. I haven't cried once in months (not that that's necessarily Fi but the situations that used to make me cry felt kind of like Fi-Si loops), I think more clearly, and another side effect I've noticed is that my Fe seems to have taken a (hopefully temporary) nosedive. While I am far less likely to cry, I'm way more likely to call people out when I think they're wrong or contradicting themselves, and I'm accused of being mean and hurting people's feelings in arguments. I actually think I noticed the difference before anyone else did, or at least before they said anything to me. I feel almost like a lot of the progress I thought I had made with Fe was undone and I was starting at square one again. :/
Before I used to hypothesize that Fe could have a physiological/neurological connection to mirror neurons. Now I'm starting to wonder if there's an endocrine connection either as well or instead. It seems to me that the dip in estrogen or progestins experienced after sudden cessation of hormonal contraception (and subsequent spike in testosterone) made me lean into Ti a bit more at the expense of decreasing my Fe. It probably sounds repugnantly stereotypical to some people to correlate Ti, or any thinking function, with testosterone, and Fe, or any feeling function, with estrogen or progesterone, but I think there might be something to it. What do you think about that? Do you think it could instead be related to the "masculine"/"feminine' orientation of functions?
Fe users be like "WHO AM I?" All the time
My INFJ wife doesn't show much sign of not feeling good enough. But when other people are around she will prioritize them. She doesn't even realize she's doing it. "Why did those people keep taking at me for so long?" "Because you asked them like four encouraging open-ended questions after you told them that you liked whatever the eff they said they liked and gave them trust-building eye contact?" "What? No..." "I WAS THERE." Well, she does that until 2Fe runs out and then DOORSLAM.
I think you can't just say De savior for this, Fe is a much bigger culprit. Sure, maybe if youre very dominant Te/inferior Fi, but still can't compare the two
OH SHIT! LIKE HOLY FUCKIN' SHIT! You are not good enough, so you have to do more for the tribe to accept you... That's the FUCKIN' story of my life!
I wish there was better terminology for feeler, because every human feels anger, sadness, happiness, etc. Maybe something along the lines of ethos would be a more accurate characterization.
Can't relate to this at all 😅
Wow that's a depressing personality type.
hannah hart: estp