Chris Perkins listens to his wife... I love the end of this very "This is the beginning of a beautiful friendship" between Shale & Zanror beautiful RP!!!
My sister and I are both chronically anxious, so when we start spiraling in a doomsday scenario we'll look at each other and quote Shale "Focus on the dragon!" On my wedding day my MIL was a monster during preparation. My wife was fully in tears going to get ready. I'm up in my prep room freaking out and my sister comes up to me "Mom and Dad won't kick me out and I could care less what (my in laws) think of me. For one day of your life you just focus on getting married, I'll take care of the dragon"
I love that Chris tucked his arm in his shirt at first. I didn't know much about Chris Perkins at the time but I could tell he was a DM with a rare chance to actually play. I feel like a lot of forever DMs end up elevating the party when they get a chance to play.
This is perhaps random, but thank you for providing subtitles for your videos. It helps a lot people who are hard of hearing, have trouble processing speech or who are still learning English. Much appreciated. It's always great when a person who talks about accessibility actually puts their money where their mouth is.
@SupergeekMike I just want to say I am also so grateful for the captions, I'm hearing impaired, I can hear volume fine but I have trouble hearing annunciation. (If your curious what I hear a majority of the time college humor made a video a few years ago called "sorry, what'd you say again" that does a great job showing how I hear people in a humorous way) but it's always really hard for me to follow along with what someone is saying without captions.
Literally any elemental form would’ve saved her is the funniest part, 2 fly, and 2 can merge into the two different things she’s diving into I now realize she had no reserve wildshapes, but a fire elemental if she’d been one at the start has the 1 inch squeeze feature and can fly, not too bad to have in intestines in a flying thing like the original plan and if it went bad like it had, she could at least had an out All of this being said, I absolutely love Marisha and it’s hilarious how much d&d makes your brain not work 😂
I completely forgot about Shale! Another reason why this recap series is so great, as I don't have as much time anymore as I did when I binged Campaign 1 I can't justify rewatching it.
New Critical Role Desmystified = Instant Watch + Geralt is Saved 🙌I have only seen Chris Perkins as a Guest in Campaign 1 but from what I've heard of Campaign 2 I appreciate how in both Campaigns he comes in as humor, hype the main cast up and then dip which isn't anything against the bigger guests who do more or have larger impact but to come in for however little he does and yet still does so much without being considered like a "main" guest is really amazing.
Yet another great episode of CR-Demystified! I love Ep. 55 of the Vox Machina Campaign. Especially Shale's quote to Zanror, goning along the lines of "Hey, a dragon got killed. This is a good day!". I don't know, I just think, this is pretty profound advice.
I love the focus on Chris here. As a DM, I know I always struggle cuz I want to give my guest players the cool final hit. I mean, they are here for only a session, so I want them to feel awesome. But I forget that it is ok for a guest character to just elevate the party
4:37 - Mike, I need to hold you accountable for the ABSOLUTE CHOKING HAZARD THIS IS!!! 🤣🤣🤣 Scanlan might not have made it out, but I definitely took damage on that one... (Sweet tea burns if you choke on it you guys, just so you know🙊)
I'm a DM in training and I've recently found this series and I have to say I am super super grateful for this series of videos. Now, the leveling during a short rest, during a long rest, or in the middle of an adventure is something a little tricky and it's going to be different for every DM. Cause personally if I was the one DM'ing and my player could justify leveling up in the middle of a combat I might allow it because what Liam did and justified is really fricking cool (in my personal opinion). To expand what I would probably do is let them multiclass (or level up) but not take any of the class "specialties" so if they multiclassed into a Druid, at the most I could see myself allowing is the spellcasting for like one or two cantrips but make anything higher than that something they have to do on a short or long rest. Paladin, Cleric, or Warlock is easier because it's easier to justify with "Oh I call out to the God/Goddess/Patron (whatever)" and I would probably turn into something of a "Blessing" from the God or whatever. That was long, I apologize. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the next videos! :)
It's funny to see little details they have change for LOVM season 2: spoilers Vax got his wings after falling from Umbrasyl Scanlan who is the one reluctant to go fight a dragon in his lair etc
The way I'm currently running my game is that the players reach "level up thresholds" where they have enough xp or story progress to level up, but to properly advance past the threshold they must take some amount of downtime. This allows for them to come up with training montages for their characters, and also add in other smaller details of character growth without needing a full scene. Though I would only recommend this approach for adventures that allow for 5-10 day gaps in the story.
It's so fun to watch this while being current with campaign 3 and seeing how they've gron iver the years. The set, the video quality, and the players have all grown so much!
See I use milestone leveling because the hassle of rebalancing things with a mid session level up is wild, I always wait till the party accomplishes something then tell them at the end of the session they have leveled up. It can feel a little unfair sometimes for them to do something cool and not immediately get more powerful but I think it really balances itself out in the long run to just give them the level at the end of a session instead of in the middle.
Dang I remember when I was just starting watching critical role like in january maybe and I started from episode 30 I believe due to the better quality and found your channel, I would watch your demystified vids from the first 30 episodes just to know what happened back then and later I would first watch the episode and then watch your demystified of that episode. Now I'm on episode 61 so a little bit ahead of you (A little bit lol with a vid every two weeks I'm almost 3 months ahead) and it's such a shame you don't make these videos weekly yet, I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later but damn I just can't wait for that moment to happen
I mean in a Mines of Phandelver campaign the party I was in had a very effective plan for opening doors. It was dubbed FBI open up. Cleric would unlock or open the door, Ranger/cleric(me) would be first attack where I tend to deal massive damage, Monk/rogue would follow up to clean up those that survived, and Barlock would occasionally have a straggler to finish.
Shale is great and she's one of my favorite guest characters of all time (I've seen pretty much all of the three main campaigns). There's another in c2 who is both a badass and, in my opinion, makes the cast feel like badasses, as well... and when you get to c2, I'd love to hear your take on him, as well!
As the DM for my groups, I prefer to wait for a rest to have characters level up, but I have allowed for immediate level up in situations when the drama of the situation benefitted from it. Life Cleric in my party hit level 5 after beating a monster I threw at them and was able to save several allies who had died in the battle by using revivify.
My group calls their maneuver "6 seconds of death". It harkens back to Pathfinder and they were sneaking around in an invisibility 10' radius they'd pop visible and boss or guards would be dead in one round. They did that twice, but never successfully pulled it off, but if a fight lasts one round they still call it out.
Vax revealing his level in paladin is one of my favorite moments in the show. I'm a huge fan of paladin redemption arcs (one of the first games I ever saw was Final Fantasy IV lol) so to see Vax break out a divine smite was super cool.
To your question about leveling up. I usually say you can have access to your hip points whenever. But to gain abilities spells and such, you have to complete a long rest.
leveling up in the middle of combat feels either too video game-y or sometimes animesque, in a way that isnt my preferred style. however, vax emerging from the dragon accepting his allegiance to the raven queen is a great moment
I'd go so far as to make a homebrew rule where if you time a pivotal moment of true character development for right when you have the XP to level up, you get to do it then and there. No new spells, spell slots or HP but you can use new abilities. Either the timing is totally serendipitous (as was the case here) in which case it's fun to celebrate that, or else the player is deliberately delaying their level up in order to have a cool moment, in which case it's fun to reward that.
For chase sequences, the best method I have found is Side Initiative - the chased take a simultaneous turn, then the chasers take a simultaneous turn. It is far from perfect, but tends to work better than other methods I have tried, such as having all normal movement happen at the top of the round. On an unrelated note, due to the music in the background of the first section of this video, half of my brain is just playing the cooking gag scene from episode 19 of If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device on loop. As for the level up question, here is how it works in my settings: After a milestone, the party is considered in a position to level up. They can then spend a number of days equal to that new level training for it (e.g. 5 days for level 5), or if a party member achieves something particularly characterful after reaching the milestone but before levelling up, they instantly gain the level, regain hit points, and get some of their class abilities (for example, getting new spell slots but not new prepared spells). Some of the ways the party members have done this: - A Beast Barbarian/Fighter ran up a wall, leapt off, grabbed onto her hovering (Swarmkeeper Ranger) evil twin, dragged her down to the ground and tore her throat out, dealing over 80 damage with crits and Action Surge. - A Warforged Tempest Cleric with a new personalised magic item scoring a critical hit with it at disadvantage against a demon. - A dragon-hating Aasimar Battlemaster Fighter slaying a wyvern with a very reckless aerial assault that left him on single-digit hit points. - A character sacrificing their life to get the party through a cursed room that could have done any number of awful things to them, with the party narrowly succeeding in saving his soul.
Regarding when is a good time to level up during a session: I've only DMed one-shots where leveling up was a non-factor (that may change soon), but being a player, it always feels weird to level up without a long rest involved. Adding new stuff onto a character sheet that's ragged from a day of adventuring can complicate things, whereas ending a long rest with a level up means that everything is topped off across the board.
@@dolphin64575 Even 6 years later I still listen to it - the fact that they made it at all, let alone how f*cking good it is, signaled to me that CR had a foundation from which they could launch any vehicle. They have a lot more music, too - The Exandrian Mixtape containing "Congratulations," "The Taryon Darrington Song," and Caleb's version of "Burn," plus the original singles like "In the Cobalt Soul," "I Wear the Mask," and Tiberius' "Vorugal" particularly move me. I love those creative geniuses at CPan almost as much as the gang at CR. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Also since my other comment is a joke, I want to say that I prefer how this episode had Grog kill Umbrasyl rather than Scanlan getting the kill in the tv show. It felt like the bombastic conclusion of the Grog arc we'd been going through, and it was especially great how Shale lied about killing Umbrasyl being Grog's destiny only for her to be right. Also Scanlan being the first to kill one of the dragons casts a bit of a wrench into *his* later arc about feeling useless.
With the question of when to level up, I think it's a more complex answer. When my DM and I played a two person run of The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, we had two level 4 characters, and levelling up (because sometimes they'd get enough exp in the middle of a room) unlocked at that moment but wouldn't refresh resources/hp. So like, the warlock would get more spells, but if she used a spell slot before that level up, she's still down a spell slot till a rest. For that temple run it was very needed; they were two lvl 4 characters in a temple that expected a group of lvl 5-7, and by the end they were level 7 nearing level 8 lol. As for our main campaign, our milestone leveling is done with an in-game week of rest because our campaign is a sort of Monster of the Week set-up, and taking a some vacation after a few jobs is healthy.
I used to make my player wait for a long rest to level up, but I recently changed that and just give them the level at the appropriate time now. They get all abilities and spells gained but do not recover spent resources or health as part of the level up. It seems to work fine.
31:26 I agree that lair actions were uninspired, but he is using the standard black dragon lair actions from the monster manual. Is this the first dragon lair fight that Matt has run in 5e?
In regards to level up. I use milestone so I would tend to give them the level up at the end of the session. If that happens to be mid encounter I would just let them fully reset with a lvl up. Will give the players more things to do and I’m happy to increase the CR on my encounter
I usually have my players level up instantly, but they don't gain any limited resources that level would grant (ie: ki, wild shapes, spell slots, sorcery points, etc), they start out depleted
Technically with legendary actions, I think the dragon could put some distance between it self and the players by using its “wing attack” every round. That would give the dragon a fly speed an extra 40 feet of movement for a total of 120 feet! Add in a dash for a total of 200 feet, and yeah if the dragon was focused purely on escaping, it would escape.
Re: the disadvantage inside Umbrasyl issue: I totally respect that Vax can't move around. On the other hand, Umbrasyl can't see him, and therefore he gets advantage on all his attacks... Advantage and Disadvantage cancel each other out, so he "should" have been rolling straight (RAW).
I'm similar when it comes to ruling on incidental damage. IMO Hit Points represent intentionally fatal attacks. This means that unless the INTENT of the hit is to kill in incapacitate, no HP damage is done. In "ball tag" i might rule that you need to make a CON save to see if you can stay upright. Or on a slap across the face I may ask for a WIS save and ask the player to tale that roll into account to determine how their character might react. But either way, no one takes HP damage unless "Serious Bodily Harm" is intended.
Don’t earth elementals have resistance to non magical bludgeoning damage aka falling damage? I don’t know if that’s a rule or something so just wanted to double check
I'd argue, I don't even think that the eagles could even carry the rest of the party. But I agree, placing both groups on the table is what I would do. I might also run it as a chase (but not exactly using the rules as those are...difficult) and have Umbrasyl be pulling some aerial tricks that keeps things dynamic. I also go back and forth on levelling up. I grant xp for completed arcs and kills, and usually require a long rest, but sometimes it just fits a moment to have everyone level up right then. I also do milestone in some games, and then it's not relevant. My general rule though is xp until level 10, and then milestone from then on.
Leveling up is tricky for me, because it involves increasing your max hit points and spell slots, so the question of "do I get all my hit points back if I level up during the adventuring day" makes it tricky to think about how much danger I can throw at the party. I do milestone leveling in the dungeon crawl campaign I'm running, so I prefer to wait until the part is at a long rest before I'll give them the level-up, but that isn't always feasible if they just took a long rest before hitting the new milestone. Ultimately it's a judgement call, but that's just me.
When it comes to leveling up I require that my players long rest. And I have one player who really bristles against that which makes me regret the exp route, on the other hand they're the type to get mad at milestone leveling taking too long. (Otherwise they're completely fine as a player, this only came up twice when they smelt a boss battle after reaching the exp threshhold) Now, if I were running a slower game in general I would probably use really old school leveling up mechanics where a level gain involves actually learning, putting into practice and finetuning the things they get from the level up (i.e. Wizard gets time to further their grasp on the weave, gaining additional spell slots while the fighter discovers their internal Athlete's Go-Button to learn Action Surge.) So it really depends on the game, my personal recommendation: Don't be afraid of a Second Session 0. You can change up how it works and it doesn't hurt your game to take time out of a session or to ask for people to come in half an hour earlier to go over changes to how things work.
How does the "unseen attacker" advantage work for being inside the target? Honestly, there are a number of places where it seems like "unseen attacker" could come up, but it isn't talked about...
9:55 I've had different DMs do this bizarrely. I had a DM have us level up as we were rolling initiative because he forgot, and I have had a DM forget to level us up for like 6 months lol. In defense of the 2nd DM, we had been adventuring in and around the same city for that whole time, so if we had gotten like 5-6 levels in that one city, we'd quickly overpower everything he had planned and that wouldn't have been fun either.
In my campaign, it is milestone leveling. I tend to wait until a plot point has finished either for the main story or for a character moment such as a side quest that took longer than intended. Once everyone is back and taking a rest or downtime then I will give them that time to level up. None of my players' characters are religious. Actually, scratch that, one is a demigod but he acts like one as long as it benefits him. This is due to his upbringing in a part of the world where there aren't a whole lot, if any, worshippers of his godly parent. But they haven't really looked into their parentage or where they came from, so I didn't have an opportunity to rp as a god. 19:59 I forgot about this moment. Well, now we know how the idea of keyfish started.
Two things can happen in a chase scene and only two things. There is gap between the one chased and the ones chasing. That gap either expands or it contracts. How do you simulate this? You could have two D20s. Dm rolls one and the Player rolls one. If one die is higher that means the gap is smaller, or greater depending on who rolled it. Make an adjustment, advance time, and roll again. Modifiers include the base speed. Or you could just handle it like combat, in a way, only the descriptions are different. Instead of hit points representing damage, the HP that is whittled down...or something equivalent to HP could be the gap between the chaser and the chased.
I let them level up when they have the xp or milestone without a rest needed but it wouldn't be in the middle of an ongoing encounter. That's a little intense.
I think Mat was nice to even allow Vex to have the chance to cause some damage in the first place. The insides of the dragon (at least as I understand he was in this situation) was not like Majin Bonn's inwars, he was veeeeeery tightly squeezed, almost couldnt move at all...
i don't see a reason to disallow leveling up, even during a fight as long as there is enough time between sessions for the players to update their sheets. one could say "maybe the players would metagame and pick specific options that would help in that fight!", but why not run with it? if a character develops a fitting power in a moment of need, i think that can be kinda epic. in my game my players fought a druid who shape shifted into elementals a bunch and he really did a number on them, but they did very well and played smart. so when the druid did escape as his wildshapes ran out, i gave my players the level up they usually would have gotten after the boss fight, and the next session they ended the fight rather easily.
Got 4 games and most of them are tour standard "you get more powerful after that" In my 4th game the players need to be "safe" to level up - like a short rest- and to Multiclass they need to be in a city/town to speak to that type of person, have been using downtime to research that type of thing, or have a party member who can "train" them
My party tried has gotten very egotistical as of late and with there consent I am sending them against an ancient black dragon (at level 9) this was perfect timing
It's always very hard to play ancient dragons properly. Generally, I think they are too smart to face a party attacking them in their lair alone without lots of minions around to even the odds.
I think chase scenes are FANTASTIC at low levels, but the moment things like dimension door are in play, chase scenes become near impossible to govern fairly.
"Okay, well, the snake plan didn't work..." "Alright." "I would like to cast...Bigby's hand." "Okay, you wave your somatic components and manifest the hand inside the dragon." "Alright. *draws breath* I would like...to FIST the WOUND." *Matt, look of absolute horror and disgust while the entire table dies laughing* "Just, jam it, find a finger and go like EEEEEEERRRRRRR" ... "This wound will never heal." "Yeah, uh...nope. nope..." It's both one of the funniest and most depraved moments of Critical Role.
I find whether or not players want to engage in a chase within a 5E ruleset is very dependent on the group itself. I think it's dangerous to say that every group will want to engage in a chase as it sets negative expectations for newer Game Masters and players. In my anecdotal experience, the large majority of the time my players didn't want to interact with a chase, instead preferring to just roll initiative and treat it like a combat encounter instead. In most cases one group is at a disadvantage in a chase and will likely be caught and end up in combat anyways or is fast or stealthy enough to get away. Meaning that we could have a situation similar to this one in Critical Role when the group should be able to get free damage on a fleeing combatant but the Game Master is reticent to allow that and the fiction that has been set up in previous sections may conflict with that. Still appreciate and love all your videos and everything Critical Role does and continues to do but I did want to chime in on the comments.
15:20 - Reminds me of "Flowers for Algernon". For a brief time, Grog was smart enough to see what he's been missing - and to know that night will fall once more. The Immovable Rod idea reminds me of the 5th novel of the Critical Failures series. Despite the series name, the plan worked much better for the Critical Failures crew. Content Warning: To say that the humor in Critical Failures is rude would be a significant understatement. Many of the characters (particularly Denis/e) are intentionally unlikable.
I appreciated both of Perkins' guest appearances, though his C2 is definitely the most memorable (for me, at least). As to when I allow players to level up: it's varied throughout the years, but, it's typically been after a long rest is completed. It is a topic discussed during Session Zero, and I leave myself open to options.
I like the cobalt that lasted..... 10mins? He can guide us in the cave.. how far have you traveled? Over there Uh.... How long to cobolts live? 11 days How old are you 11 days We are going to make this the best day of his life! Oh look orcs that like smashing cobalts [smash] .... Or his last....
This might be a hot take, but I have never really liked how Matt runs dragons, and the Umbrassyl fight is a good example of it. I feel like he plays them too much like brutes and not like intelligent creatures. Plus, he rarely gives them minions, so it comes down to seven+ players vs 1 dragon, and the only bonus the dragon has is increased hit points. And then, when you watch the animated show and see how intelligent and deadly Umbrasyl is, it just makes his portrayal in the live show even more lackluster. Obviously Raishan is the exception to this rule in the live plays, but I wish the other dragons had some better tactics applied to them. I dunno, it just sucks me out of immersion when an ancient being is so easily cornered.
I’ve been watching this series along side the Vods, up to the point the animated show has reached. Unfortunately with the series 3 delay, we’re almost caught up. Gonna be hard to stop watching until season 3, this series is excellent
Who is your favorite Critical Role guest star?
Aimee Carrero or Robbie Daymond, its a toss up.
If we are counting the non-main campaigns, I really liked Lou Wilson in calamity. I think having him and Robbie at the same table would be legendary.
Wil Wheaton. I know he only got the one episode, but I liked how he managed to have fun in spite of his poor dice rolls.
Robbie Damon and TJ Storm. Gods both are amazing in such different ways ❤
Jon Heder, hands down
Underrated comment from Shale when they ask if her staff has a name and she says "only men do that"
*Arya has left the Chat*
Big game of thrones vibe lol
Chris Perkins listens to his wife... I love the end of this very "This is the beginning of a beautiful friendship" between Shale & Zanror beautiful RP!!!
My sister and I are both chronically anxious, so when we start spiraling in a doomsday scenario we'll look at each other and quote Shale "Focus on the dragon!"
On my wedding day my MIL was a monster during preparation. My wife was fully in tears going to get ready.
I'm up in my prep room freaking out and my sister comes up to me
"Mom and Dad won't kick me out and I could care less what (my in laws) think of me. For one day of your life you just focus on getting married, I'll take care of the dragon"
That's awesome.
daaaawwwwww
a bad ass dragon slayer that sister of yours
Things like this make me so grateful for my in-laws
I love that Chris tucked his arm in his shirt at first. I didn't know much about Chris Perkins at the time but I could tell he was a DM with a rare chance to actually play. I feel like a lot of forever DMs end up elevating the party when they get a chance to play.
Us Forever DMs try our hardest on both sides of the screen for sure...glad you noticed that too! 😅
This is perhaps random, but thank you for providing subtitles for your videos. It helps a lot people who are hard of hearing, have trouble processing speech or who are still learning English. Much appreciated. It's always great when a person who talks about accessibility actually puts their money where their mouth is.
I’m so glad they help! ☺️
@SupergeekMike I just want to say I am also so grateful for the captions, I'm hearing impaired, I can hear volume fine but I have trouble hearing annunciation. (If your curious what I hear a majority of the time college humor made a video a few years ago called "sorry, what'd you say again" that does a great job showing how I hear people in a humorous way) but it's always really hard for me to follow along with what someone is saying without captions.
@@SupergeekMike I also like them because I like chips too much.
I absolutely love Shale! She was so funny and Chris Perkins is a legend. The old magic bit might be my favourite one in C1
This is the legendary origin of "Guiding Bolt Right Up The Butt™©®"!!!! This fight is kind of a slog, but the kill is incredible.
Gotta love Perkins as a CR guest, definitely in my top 5 (although I am counting Shale and Spurt together)
Spurt is the best critical role character ever conceived
11 days!
Keyteor totally laid the groundwork for the goldfish. I will die on this hill.
Which then lead to Beauregard
Literally any elemental form would’ve saved her is the funniest part, 2 fly, and 2 can merge into the two different things she’s diving into
I now realize she had no reserve wildshapes, but a fire elemental if she’d been one at the start has the 1 inch squeeze feature and can fly, not too bad to have in intestines in a flying thing like the original plan and if it went bad like it had, she could at least had an out
All of this being said, I absolutely love Marisha and it’s hilarious how much d&d makes your brain not work 😂
This is a good channel. This is a good series. I like Mike.
21:21 “Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer”
The words "We're gods" come to mind as Keyleth Meteors to the ground
Pride cometh before the very…VERY steep fall.
@@stingerjohnny9951Pride cometh before the leap?
❤🎶Gonna GUIDING BOLT HIM RIGHT UP DA BUTT🎶 An old Taldore classic heard as far as Wildmount & Marquette!!
The Jorel damage scene definitely plantts the seed of the goldfish plan! I'd forgotten about this 😂
Long Live the Keyteor
I completely forgot about Shale! Another reason why this recap series is so great, as I don't have as much time anymore as I did when I binged Campaign 1 I can't justify rewatching it.
New Critical Role Desmystified = Instant Watch + Geralt is Saved 🙌I have only seen Chris Perkins as a Guest in Campaign 1 but from what I've heard of Campaign 2 I appreciate how in both Campaigns he comes in as humor, hype the main cast up and then dip which isn't anything against the bigger guests who do more or have larger impact but to come in for however little he does and yet still does so much without being considered like a "main" guest is really amazing.
His campaign 2 appearance was the shortest guest appearance on record until Echoes of the Solstice. It was *great*.
It's crazy how far Keyleth falls in this episode. I sure hope she doesn't end up making a habit of it. That would be crazy.
The absolute horror on Matt's face when Sam says he wants to "fist the wound" is what makes this fight worth watching again. And again. And again.
Yet another great episode of CR-Demystified!
I love Ep. 55 of the Vox Machina Campaign. Especially Shale's quote to Zanror, goning along the lines of "Hey, a dragon got killed. This is a good day!". I don't know, I just think, this is pretty profound advice.
"And Vax broods through the air" made me laugh
I love the focus on Chris here. As a DM, I know I always struggle cuz I want to give my guest players the cool final hit. I mean, they are here for only a session, so I want them to feel awesome. But I forget that it is ok for a guest character to just elevate the party
Oh hey I just finished binging the last 20 episodes on your channel today
Almost as much as binging two CR episodes 😜
hardcore!
Hahaha! Pike's Holy enema! Great phrasing.
4:37 - Mike, I need to hold you accountable for the ABSOLUTE CHOKING HAZARD THIS IS!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Scanlan might not have made it out, but I definitely took damage on that one...
(Sweet tea burns if you choke on it you guys, just so you know🙊)
"Broods through the air." That comment had me cracking up!
I'm a DM in training and I've recently found this series and I have to say I am super super grateful for this series of videos.
Now, the leveling during a short rest, during a long rest, or in the middle of an adventure is something a little tricky and it's going to be different for every DM. Cause personally if I was the one DM'ing and my player could justify leveling up in the middle of a combat I might allow it because what Liam did and justified is really fricking cool (in my personal opinion). To expand what I would probably do is let them multiclass (or level up) but not take any of the class "specialties" so if they multiclassed into a Druid, at the most I could see myself allowing is the spellcasting for like one or two cantrips but make anything higher than that something they have to do on a short or long rest. Paladin, Cleric, or Warlock is easier because it's easier to justify with "Oh I call out to the God/Goddess/Patron (whatever)" and I would probably turn into something of a "Blessing" from the God or whatever.
That was long, I apologize. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the next videos! :)
It's funny to see little details they have change for LOVM season 2:
spoilers
Vax got his wings after falling from Umbrasyl
Scanlan who is the one reluctant to go fight a dragon in his lair etc
I think this might have been the one and only Campaign 1 episode I watched live.
The way I'm currently running my game is that the players reach "level up thresholds" where they have enough xp or story progress to level up, but to properly advance past the threshold they must take some amount of downtime. This allows for them to come up with training montages for their characters, and also add in other smaller details of character growth without needing a full scene. Though I would only recommend this approach for adventures that allow for 5-10 day gaps in the story.
always love these! Can't wait for more!
It's so fun to watch this while being current with campaign 3 and seeing how they've gron iver the years. The set, the video quality, and the players have all grown so much!
See I use milestone leveling because the hassle of rebalancing things with a mid session level up is wild, I always wait till the party accomplishes something then tell them at the end of the session they have leveled up. It can feel a little unfair sometimes for them to do something cool and not immediately get more powerful but I think it really balances itself out in the long run to just give them the level at the end of a session instead of in the middle.
Mike! Mike! Mike! Come on everyone! MIKE! MIKE! MIKE!
Excited to hear your thoughts on this one. I thought Perkins was a very laid back guest.
The battle from the inside was super interesting for😊 me.
Dang I remember when I was just starting watching critical role like in january maybe and I started from episode 30 I believe due to the better quality and found your channel, I would watch your demystified vids from the first 30 episodes just to know what happened back then and later I would first watch the episode and then watch your demystified of that episode. Now I'm on episode 61 so a little bit ahead of you (A little bit lol with a vid every two weeks I'm almost 3 months ahead) and it's such a shame you don't make these videos weekly yet, I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later but damn I just can't wait for that moment to happen
I mean in a Mines of Phandelver campaign the party I was in had a very effective plan for opening doors. It was dubbed FBI open up. Cleric would unlock or open the door, Ranger/cleric(me) would be first attack where I tend to deal massive damage, Monk/rogue would follow up to clean up those that survived, and Barlock would occasionally have a straggler to finish.
Shale is great and she's one of my favorite guest characters of all time (I've seen pretty much all of the three main campaigns). There's another in c2 who is both a badass and, in my opinion, makes the cast feel like badasses, as well... and when you get to c2, I'd love to hear your take on him, as well!
As the DM for my groups, I prefer to wait for a rest to have characters level up, but I have allowed for immediate level up in situations when the drama of the situation benefitted from it.
Life Cleric in my party hit level 5 after beating a monster I threw at them and was able to save several allies who had died in the battle by using revivify.
My group calls their maneuver "6 seconds of death". It harkens back to Pathfinder and they were sneaking around in an invisibility 10' radius they'd pop visible and boss or guards would be dead in one round. They did that twice, but never successfully pulled it off, but if a fight lasts one round they still call it out.
Vax revealing his level in paladin is one of my favorite moments in the show. I'm a huge fan of paladin redemption arcs (one of the first games I ever saw was Final Fantasy IV lol) so to see Vax break out a divine smite was super cool.
To your question about leveling up. I usually say you can have access to your hip points whenever. But to gain abilities spells and such, you have to complete a long rest.
My car just got on fire, but that's not gonna stop me from watching the new ep
leveling up in the middle of combat feels either too video game-y or sometimes animesque, in a way that isnt my preferred style. however, vax emerging from the dragon accepting his allegiance to the raven queen is a great moment
I'd go so far as to make a homebrew rule where if you time a pivotal moment of true character development for right when you have the XP to level up, you get to do it then and there. No new spells, spell slots or HP but you can use new abilities. Either the timing is totally serendipitous (as was the case here) in which case it's fun to celebrate that, or else the player is deliberately delaying their level up in order to have a cool moment, in which case it's fun to reward that.
For chase sequences, the best method I have found is Side Initiative - the chased take a simultaneous turn, then the chasers take a simultaneous turn. It is far from perfect, but tends to work better than other methods I have tried, such as having all normal movement happen at the top of the round.
On an unrelated note, due to the music in the background of the first section of this video, half of my brain is just playing the cooking gag scene from episode 19 of If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device on loop.
As for the level up question, here is how it works in my settings:
After a milestone, the party is considered in a position to level up. They can then spend a number of days equal to that new level training for it (e.g. 5 days for level 5), or if a party member achieves something particularly characterful after reaching the milestone but before levelling up, they instantly gain the level, regain hit points, and get some of their class abilities (for example, getting new spell slots but not new prepared spells). Some of the ways the party members have done this:
- A Beast Barbarian/Fighter ran up a wall, leapt off, grabbed onto her hovering (Swarmkeeper Ranger) evil twin, dragged her down to the ground and tore her throat out, dealing over 80 damage with crits and Action Surge.
- A Warforged Tempest Cleric with a new personalised magic item scoring a critical hit with it at disadvantage against a demon.
- A dragon-hating Aasimar Battlemaster Fighter slaying a wyvern with a very reckless aerial assault that left him on single-digit hit points.
- A character sacrificing their life to get the party through a cursed room that could have done any number of awful things to them, with the party narrowly succeeding in saving his soul.
19:15 I'm just now realizing this is the foreshadow to the goldfish incident and suddenly it all makes sense XD
Regarding when is a good time to level up during a session: I've only DMed one-shots where leveling up was a non-factor (that may change soon), but being a player, it always feels weird to level up without a long rest involved. Adding new stuff onto a character sheet that's ragged from a day of adventuring can complicate things, whereas ending a long rest with a level up means that everything is topped off across the board.
Fun Fact; Yev Pusin from Backblaze played Shale in "Vox Machina; An Exandrian Musical" by the Cantata Pansophical. 😃
You're going to make me relisten... So glad to know he was involved ❤
@@dolphin64575 Even 6 years later I still listen to it - the fact that they made it at all, let alone how f*cking good it is, signaled to me that CR had a foundation from which they could launch any vehicle. They have a lot more music, too - The Exandrian Mixtape containing "Congratulations," "The Taryon Darrington Song," and Caleb's version of "Burn," plus the original singles like "In the Cobalt Soul," "I Wear the Mask," and Tiberius' "Vorugal" particularly move me. I love those creative geniuses at CPan almost as much as the gang at CR. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
He gave it the standard black dragon lair action which are intended for a swampy lair (which they fit into much better then a cave).
Also since my other comment is a joke, I want to say that I prefer how this episode had Grog kill Umbrasyl rather than Scanlan getting the kill in the tv show. It felt like the bombastic conclusion of the Grog arc we'd been going through, and it was especially great how Shale lied about killing Umbrasyl being Grog's destiny only for her to be right. Also Scanlan being the first to kill one of the dragons casts a bit of a wrench into *his* later arc about feeling useless.
With the question of when to level up, I think it's a more complex answer. When my DM and I played a two person run of The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, we had two level 4 characters, and levelling up (because sometimes they'd get enough exp in the middle of a room) unlocked at that moment but wouldn't refresh resources/hp. So like, the warlock would get more spells, but if she used a spell slot before that level up, she's still down a spell slot till a rest. For that temple run it was very needed; they were two lvl 4 characters in a temple that expected a group of lvl 5-7, and by the end they were level 7 nearing level 8 lol.
As for our main campaign, our milestone leveling is done with an in-game week of rest because our campaign is a sort of Monster of the Week set-up, and taking a some vacation after a few jobs is healthy.
19:03 "Circling around to"? Like... Like a flock of ravens, mayhaps?
"Oooooooold Magic" 😂😂😂😂😂
I used to make my player wait for a long rest to level up, but I recently changed that and just give them the level at the appropriate time now. They get all abilities and spells gained but do not recover spent resources or health as part of the level up. It seems to work fine.
31:26 I agree that lair actions were uninspired, but he is using the standard black dragon lair actions from the monster manual. Is this the first dragon lair fight that Matt has run in 5e?
In regards to level up. I use milestone so I would tend to give them the level up at the end of the session. If that happens to be mid encounter I would just let them fully reset with a lvl up. Will give the players more things to do and I’m happy to increase the CR on my encounter
I usually have my players level up instantly, but they don't gain any limited resources that level would grant (ie: ki, wild shapes, spell slots, sorcery points, etc), they start out depleted
Technically with legendary actions, I think the dragon could put some distance between it self and the players by using its “wing attack” every round. That would give the dragon a fly speed an extra 40 feet of movement for a total of 120 feet! Add in a dash for a total of 200 feet, and yeah if the dragon was focused purely on escaping, it would escape.
Re: the disadvantage inside Umbrasyl issue: I totally respect that Vax can't move around. On the other hand, Umbrasyl can't see him, and therefore he gets advantage on all his attacks... Advantage and Disadvantage cancel each other out, so he "should" have been rolling straight (RAW).
I'm similar when it comes to ruling on incidental damage.
IMO Hit Points represent intentionally fatal attacks. This means that unless the INTENT of the hit is to kill in incapacitate, no HP damage is done. In "ball tag" i might rule that you need to make a CON save to see if you can stay upright. Or on a slap across the face I may ask for a WIS save and ask the player to tale that roll into account to determine how their character might react. But either way, no one takes HP damage unless "Serious Bodily Harm" is intended.
Don’t earth elementals have resistance to non magical bludgeoning damage aka falling damage? I don’t know if that’s a rule or something so just wanted to double check
I'd argue, I don't even think that the eagles could even carry the rest of the party. But I agree, placing both groups on the table is what I would do. I might also run it as a chase (but not exactly using the rules as those are...difficult) and have Umbrasyl be pulling some aerial tricks that keeps things dynamic.
I also go back and forth on levelling up. I grant xp for completed arcs and kills, and usually require a long rest, but sometimes it just fits a moment to have everyone level up right then. I also do milestone in some games, and then it's not relevant. My general rule though is xp until level 10, and then milestone from then on.
Leveling up is tricky for me, because it involves increasing your max hit points and spell slots, so the question of "do I get all my hit points back if I level up during the adventuring day" makes it tricky to think about how much danger I can throw at the party. I do milestone leveling in the dungeon crawl campaign I'm running, so I prefer to wait until the part is at a long rest before I'll give them the level-up, but that isn't always feasible if they just took a long rest before hitting the new milestone. Ultimately it's a judgement call, but that's just me.
When it comes to leveling up I require that my players long rest. And I have one player who really bristles against that which makes me regret the exp route, on the other hand they're the type to get mad at milestone leveling taking too long. (Otherwise they're completely fine as a player, this only came up twice when they smelt a boss battle after reaching the exp threshhold)
Now, if I were running a slower game in general I would probably use really old school leveling up mechanics where a level gain involves actually learning, putting into practice and finetuning the things they get from the level up (i.e. Wizard gets time to further their grasp on the weave, gaining additional spell slots while the fighter discovers their internal Athlete's Go-Button to learn Action Surge.)
So it really depends on the game, my personal recommendation: Don't be afraid of a Second Session 0. You can change up how it works and it doesn't hurt your game to take time out of a session or to ask for people to come in half an hour earlier to go over changes to how things work.
How does the "unseen attacker" advantage work for being inside the target? Honestly, there are a number of places where it seems like "unseen attacker" could come up, but it isn't talked about...
9:55 I've had different DMs do this bizarrely. I had a DM have us level up as we were rolling initiative because he forgot, and I have had a DM forget to level us up for like 6 months lol. In defense of the 2nd DM, we had been adventuring in and around the same city for that whole time, so if we had gotten like 5-6 levels in that one city, we'd quickly overpower everything he had planned and that wouldn't have been fun either.
I ran a semester of 7th Sea, and I thought it was a really great system for Fantastical Swashbuckling!
In my campaign, it is milestone leveling. I tend to wait until a plot point has finished either for the main story or for a character moment such as a side quest that took longer than intended. Once everyone is back and taking a rest or downtime then I will give them that time to level up.
None of my players' characters are religious. Actually, scratch that, one is a demigod but he acts like one as long as it benefits him. This is due to his upbringing in a part of the world where there aren't a whole lot, if any, worshippers of his godly parent. But they haven't really looked into their parentage or where they came from, so I didn't have an opportunity to rp as a god.
19:59 I forgot about this moment. Well, now we know how the idea of keyfish started.
Two things can happen in a chase scene and only two things. There is gap between the one chased and the ones chasing. That gap either expands or it contracts. How do you simulate this? You could have two D20s. Dm rolls one and the Player rolls one. If one die is higher that means the gap is smaller, or greater depending on who rolled it. Make an adjustment, advance time, and roll again. Modifiers include the base speed.
Or you could just handle it like combat, in a way, only the descriptions are different. Instead of hit points representing damage, the HP that is whittled down...or something equivalent to HP could be the gap between the chaser and the chased.
i didnt know that Chris was a guest in C1 (i only watched C2 and most of C3) and i had to pause this video to go watch the glory that is Spurt
The third guest player goal is simply a chance to play a tabletop game, which is how I ended up joining my current group after two years of searching.
Never thought about the fact that Shale was Vecna coded. You think that was intentional by Perkins?
I let them level up when they have the xp or milestone without a rest needed but it wouldn't be in the middle of an ongoing encounter. That's a little intense.
A lot of the issue with the Lair actions is this isn't really the dragon's home terrain. Black dragons are swamp stompers, not mountaineers.
That’s a good point!
I allow PCs to level up between sessions, even if it's as a battle is changing like the example here
I think Mat was nice to even allow Vex to have the chance to cause some damage in the first place. The insides of the dragon (at least as I understand he was in this situation) was not like Majin Bonn's inwars, he was veeeeeery tightly squeezed, almost couldnt move at all...
*Vax?
@@dolphin64575 Yep!! hehe
In my current game, the party has to go back to town and spend a week resting and training in order to level up.
i don't see a reason to disallow leveling up, even during a fight as long as there is enough time between sessions for the players to update their sheets. one could say "maybe the players would metagame and pick specific options that would help in that fight!", but why not run with it? if a character develops a fitting power in a moment of need, i think that can be kinda epic.
in my game my players fought a druid who shape shifted into elementals a bunch and he really did a number on them, but they did very well and played smart. so when the druid did escape as his wildshapes ran out, i gave my players the level up they usually would have gotten after the boss fight, and the next session they ended the fight rather easily.
Got 4 games and most of them are tour standard "you get more powerful after that"
In my 4th game the players need to be "safe" to level up - like a short rest- and to Multiclass they need to be in a city/town to speak to that type of person, have been using downtime to research that type of thing, or have a party member who can "train" them
I played 7 seas with its creator, John Wick, once… fantastic game, fantastic GM.
My party tried has gotten very egotistical as of late and with there consent I am sending them against an ancient black dragon (at level 9) this was perfect timing
It's always very hard to play ancient dragons properly. Generally, I think they are too smart to face a party attacking them in their lair alone without lots of minions around to even the odds.
I think chase scenes are FANTASTIC at low levels, but the moment things like dimension door are in play, chase scenes become near impossible to govern fairly.
❤
It was so hilariously funny.
I love this channel ❤🎉
They use xp level up in campaign 1??
They did, you can actually see during the Briarwood’s arc Vax and Scanlan level up to 12 around the same time. (or maybe I’m misremembering lol)
They sure do!
"Okay, well, the snake plan didn't work..."
"Alright."
"I would like to cast...Bigby's hand."
"Okay, you wave your somatic components and manifest the hand inside the dragon."
"Alright. *draws breath* I would like...to FIST the WOUND."
*Matt, look of absolute horror and disgust while the entire table dies laughing*
"Just, jam it, find a finger and go like EEEEEEERRRRRRR"
...
"This wound will never heal."
"Yeah, uh...nope. nope..."
It's both one of the funniest and most depraved moments of Critical Role.
Short Rest at least but generally long rest to level up.
I find whether or not players want to engage in a chase within a 5E ruleset is very dependent on the group itself. I think it's dangerous to say that every group will want to engage in a chase as it sets negative expectations for newer Game Masters and players. In my anecdotal experience, the large majority of the time my players didn't want to interact with a chase, instead preferring to just roll initiative and treat it like a combat encounter instead. In most cases one group is at a disadvantage in a chase and will likely be caught and end up in combat anyways or is fast or stealthy enough to get away. Meaning that we could have a situation similar to this one in Critical Role when the group should be able to get free damage on a fleeing combatant but the Game Master is reticent to allow that and the fiction that has been set up in previous sections may conflict with that. Still appreciate and love all your videos and everything Critical Role does and continues to do but I did want to chime in on the comments.
15:20 - Reminds me of "Flowers for Algernon". For a brief time, Grog was smart enough to see what he's been missing - and to know that night will fall once more.
The Immovable Rod idea reminds me of the 5th novel of the Critical Failures series. Despite the series name, the plan worked much better for the Critical Failures crew.
Content Warning: To say that the humor in Critical Failures is rude would be a significant understatement. Many of the characters (particularly Denis/e) are intentionally unlikable.
I was just thinking of Flowers for Algernon too.
I appreciated both of Perkins' guest appearances, though his C2 is definitely the most memorable (for me, at least).
As to when I allow players to level up: it's varied throughout the years, but, it's typically been after a long rest is completed. It is a topic discussed during Session Zero, and I leave myself open to options.
I think Matt was being very easy on them
I wish they'd gone with a more game-accurate death for the dragon than what we got in the cartoon.
I like the cobalt that lasted..... 10mins?
He can guide us in the cave.. how far have you traveled?
Over there
Uh.... How long to cobolts live?
11 days
How old are you
11 days
We are going to make this the best day of his life!
Oh look orcs that like smashing cobalts [smash]
.... Or his last....
Holy enema, Batman!
(I had to, I'm sorry)
This might be a hot take, but I have never really liked how Matt runs dragons, and the Umbrassyl fight is a good example of it. I feel like he plays them too much like brutes and not like intelligent creatures. Plus, he rarely gives them minions, so it comes down to seven+ players vs 1 dragon, and the only bonus the dragon has is increased hit points. And then, when you watch the animated show and see how intelligent and deadly Umbrasyl is, it just makes his portrayal in the live show even more lackluster. Obviously Raishan is the exception to this rule in the live plays, but I wish the other dragons had some better tactics applied to them. I dunno, it just sucks me out of immersion when an ancient being is so easily cornered.
I’ve been watching this series along side the Vods, up to the point the animated show has reached.
Unfortunately with the series 3 delay, we’re almost caught up. Gonna be hard to stop watching until season 3, this series is excellent
Actually, the next arc is the Feywild, which was adapted as the Fey subplot in season 2, so you still have a little time!
@@SupergeekMike Oh yes of course Fethris, and now we have a season 3 release announced! Phew!
Short Rest Hp for level, Long rest full level.