Britain's 1980s Failed High Speed Train Experiment

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

its a shame that BR actuality wanted to innovate, but kept getting slapped down with issues. It does beg the question in my head though: why was there so much innovation when the railways were private and in the Big Four era, but BR couldn't keep up with the changing times? Its impossible to know the whole truth, but it is important to wonder.

[@jammiedodger7040]

Yeah Same as APT which in the end was actually just sold to a foreign company.

[@nathanking8930]

The standard answer from the more market friendly schools of economics would be that BR, as a state monopoly, had no competition and therefore no reason to grow. But whilst not an expert on railway history, I would point to BR only existing during a period of decline in the railways - harder to innovate if you’ve not got spare cash and your focus is on just getting things as they are through another day.

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

@@nathanking8930 This is the truth and is why the best eras of Railways may be over. Its been decades since the railways competed and actually needed to innovate, so why would they? Even the French stopped pushing the TGV to new levels. how sad.

[@hypergolic8468]

A very simplistic view would be the war and politics.
When the private companies, were competing, they had a network that was maintained and, even with the depression of the 1930's, there was no real competition to their traffic.
Post 1945, suddenly many people had driving licences, surplus sales of trucks and light vehicles meant that the farmer could now set off early for market, with the sheep in the back, rather than the train. So revenue drops, and shiny innovating things go, as it's about keeping the UK exporting to pay off our war debt. You could say that the innovation in steam engines under Riddles was as good as it got.
Then came politics. The killer for the UK was trying to keep to many companies afloat with too few orders. We can all go through the failure of North British etc etc, but the issue was, too many manufacturers building what turned out to be sub standard kit to for fill so many small sub orders - with many different sub suppliers - (look at all the class 25/33 sub classes).
But remember, that each sub equipment supplier, probably had a factory in a marginal constituency and, suddenly, an order there saves the day at the next election, regardless of if BR wanted the kit or not. And again, there's' no innovation, as people are fighting political and budget requirements from the Transport Commission.
In Germany, they put out a spec, built a number of prototypes from different manufacturers and then a winner takes all competition would result in a locomotive, that went into traffic tested, built for long service, and crucially the job in hand. As the German manufacturer could bank on an order, from day one of 200 locomotives, they could get cheap state bank loans, build a new factory, and build the CORRECT servicing facilities (and spares support) on the back of it.
Instead we carried on going with old labour rules, old factories and a rail network that never really recovered from the war.
If we'd built classes of reliable and exportable locomotives, removed politics from procurement, I think there could have been a return to innovation as we saw pre war, and crucially, a thirst from the BR board.

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

@@hypergolic8468 This is also true. there are just so many sad factors that led to the downfall of the industry behind the most efficient, and IMHO convenient and reliable form of transportation and freight delivery. I just hope that one day, there is a reprise of the railways of Britain. (cue Giants of Steam theme)

[@SalmanMentos]

The IC250 looks too modern even for today

[@Arltratlo]

thats the reason they dont build it...
its looked to much like the future, but the UK wants to live in the past, empire, steam locomotives and workers enslaved!
the reasons for vote for BrexShit, running back into the past!

[@francisguzman.isco1998]

I would personally would've liked to have seen the HS2 Trainsets to be either inspired by the IC250 or even paying homage to it, such a wasted design, it looks so timeless and iconic, this would've been the face of New British Railways, but alas, I'm just being hopeful hahaha, but well done, keep up the good work.

[@lukestevens8735]

The powercars look similar to the Eurostar becasue they were designed by the same person and the Eurostar design was based on the IC250.

[@ben.taylor]

1:37
It's not called the Class 225. The train itself is called the Class 91, it was named the Intercity 225 to symbolise its top speed of 225km/h (140mph) but that's not its official classification. Furthermore, which you didn't mention, the 91s had a design speed of 140mph which they've not only reached but significantly exceeded. But in service they've spent their lives travelling at a maximum speed of 125mph. This being due to the geometry of the East Coast Mainline and, with later legislation, the lack of in-cab signalling which is required for trains to exceed this speed.

[@maverick1243]

The only failure was in Westminster. Again.

[@robtyman4281]

Those b****y Tories again!

[@nicebean]

750 MIO wow! I wish we had a real high speed network in the UK, similar to the Spanish or German!

[@kaitlyn__L]

I assume when you said "costly and timely" you meant "costly and time-consuming" (as timely implies being on-time!)
Aside from that little scripting detail, a good wee video and excellent use of archive footage.
It's such a shame the WCML never got modernised like it was supposed to. As I grow older I'm increasingly bitter that BR, and GPO/BT, and the CEGB, were never allowed to properly implement their modernisation plans.
We would be in a much better place right now, infrastructure-wise, if we'd been able to lean on their proposed full-fibre rollouts, France levels of nuclear power, and modern high-speed rail networks during lockdowns and the subsequent recovery. Energy prices wouldn't have gone through the roof, remote-working from home wouldn't have had connection issues, and there would've been much less housing pressure on certain cities over the last few decades if commuters had viable high-speed options.

[@Northerner_Transport_Hub]

Hi. First of all, you've taught me about a train i never knew existed, and your pacing is much better compared to when you started this channel. A couple of corrections though:
The Inter-City 125 was actually capable of 140mph
The name of the Inter-City 225 is A Class 91, which is the locomotive what powers the full train, known by enthusiasts as a 'Electra'
Subscribed, looking forward to your next video.

[@user-nr9we2ik3u]

That 250 train is look cool

[@Phil-oj5nr]

Check out all the projects the British Governments over the years have pulled the plug on.
Let’s start with the Whittle-designed jet engine. Only in the dying stages of WWII did money start to flow, whilst across in Europe the Germans were quite a bit ahead. Luckily even their Government was uninterested, otherwise they would have had jets in the air earlier, which could have prolonged the war.
Next was the Blue Streak missile which was cancelled without entering full production.
Then the APT (Advanced Passenger Train), which had the engineers been given, maybe, another 12 months to iron out a few problems could have been in squadron duty within another couple of years.
As it was, the Italians took up the mantle and produced the Pendolino Class 390 trains which Virgin Trains introduced to the West Coast mainline. The body shells were produced in Italy and the fit done at Washwood Heath.
The final debacle is HS2. The concept was brilliant, even though the financials were not clearly recognised.
The Tory government (2023) truncated the plan, so that what will, finally, be built is a shadow of the original concept.
Penny pinching has ruined what could, and should, have been a major forward step for the British railway system.
PICTON, South Island, New Zealand.

[@sglenny001]

It really upset me

[@bobbymcloughlin3452]

You Are Telling A Story Of An Anglo-Celtic Railway MK Stock (HST)
UK’s MK Coaching Stock Throughout The Generations
Production MK Stocks
1. Anglo-Celtic Railway MK Stock
2. British Railway MK Stock
3. BREL MK Stock (Remodel)
4. Metropolitan Cammell MK Stock
5. Anglo-Celtic MK Stock (HST: Planned)
Spanish Construction & Railway Auxiliary - MK Stock
Mark Stock Prototypes
1. Cravens MK Stock
2. Swindon MK Stock
3. Crewe MK Stock (BREL)
The English & Celtic Railways
1. Original MK Stock
5. MK Stock (HST)
British Railway
2. Original MK Stock (Vacuum Braked)
A. Original MK Stock (Air Braked)
B. Original MK Stock (Wrap-Round Doors)
C. Original MK Stock (Air Conditioner / Fresh Air)
D. Combined Pressure Ventilation / Air Con
E. Edition: Luggage Rack Fitted Lavatories
F. Full Air Conditioner (Reseating)
G. Generator Fitting (Reseating)
Cravens = 1. Original MK Stock
1. A Prototype Of E&CR’s MK Stock
Swindon = 2. Original MK Stock
2. A Prototype Of BR’s Original MK Stock
Crewe = 3. Original MK Stock (Cowl Unit Set)
3. A Prototype Of A BREL MK Stock
4. Latter Generation MK Stock
Only Built A Catenary Voltage DVT
Crewe Also Made A Cowl Unit For The BREL MK Stock IC Service
BREL
3. A Push-Pull Cowl Unit Set
A. Original MK Stock (Latter Generation)
B. Engine Haulage Set (DT Classed As: “442”)
BREL International MK Stock
Metropolitan Cammell
1. Pullman Stock (Based On An E&CR MK Stock)
4. Original MK Stock
Spanish Construction & Railway Auxiliary
4. Original MK Stock (As Used For Ireland’s Intercity Train Services)
5. Official MK Stock (As Used For The Caledonian Sleeper)
A. Official MK Stock (As Used For The TransPennine Express)
A Train Like This Is Only Run On Electric, Is A Powerless Train Of Carriages On Voltage, But It Comes With Either A Cabless Catenary Trailer Or Driving Catenary Trailer, Available On Live Rail
Motor (Power): Steam, Diesel Or Petrol
Electric Is Either An Equipment Of Power Or A Transmission
Diesel (Mechanical Transmission)
Diesel (Hydraulical Transmission)
Diesel (Electrical Transmission)
Petrol Steam = Steam Mode & Petrol Mode
Petrol Diesel = Diesel Mode & Petrol Mode
Voltages Available
Steam Diesel = Steam Mode & Diesel Mode
Tri-Mode = Steam, Diesel & Petrol
Quad-Mode = Steam, Diesel, Petrol & Electric
Voltage Locomotive Engines
Voltage Steam = Steam Mode & An Electric Mode
Voltage Diesel = Diesel Mode & An Electric Mode
Voltage Petrol = Petrol Mode & An Electric Mode

[@Yorkshire_trainspotter]

The class 91 not the class 225. They were called the intercity225 but were class 91.

[@jammiedodger7040]

Incorrect it was called the Class 91 and Mark 4 and the name of the set was intercity 225.

[@hypergamingnow5719]

Wrong g that's a different loco

[@TheosTrainsWalesOfficial]

Trust me, with MY knowledge, I could revive this project in future by using German and Austrian stock.

[@lindseypapakirk97]

I must say that lc250 looks more American than British. Also I would like a new tons of Trackmasters video.

[@harrisonallen651]

The unfortunate recession

[@rhodrage]

This video was interesting, but I had to set it to 0.75 playback to take in what you were saying

[@StefanWithTrains3222]

I think that if this project had gone thru, we would see in 2024 high-speed rail all over the UK. Due to its low(er) capital investment costs when compared to entirely new greenfield routes. But we are now in 2024 in our timeline, with one HS1.

[@TheRubberDuck]

Personally if the Class 93 or IC 250 was developed before the APT, it would of got a lot more traction as since the balls up of the APT the Thatcher era government didn't want to pump more funds into BR to develop more trains which is why in the end the tilting mechanism from the APT was sold off to an Italian firm who then sold it back to the UK years later in the form of Voyagers

[@abloogywoogywoo]

Love its design.

[@afellowsudrian]

What’s ur Thomas channel called?

[@OnlyTheRightTrack]

tons of trackmasters i think