On previous videos, so as on this one, I wish to thank the camera operator. It quite usual for smaller or bigger channels or even production teams, in cases when there is a cameraman, it is usual to point a camera in any direction but the object of a discussion. Not the case here and it is very much appreciated. So not only grinding and explaining work is good, so as I thank for the operator work.
It's been a number of years since I've had to work to tolerances that close. I still remember how frustrating it can be, but also the feeling of accomplishment when the indicator read zero all the way around. Really nice work Steve! Thanks for doing the videos.
The Indi-Square is nice in that it can travel up and down and check the whole surface of a part not just at point of contact like the Squareness Comparator checker. It is very accurate but not as much as the Squareness Comparator checker. To check the whole surface with the Squareness Comparator checker you have one more step involved. You need to check the flatness and parallel of the surface first. If it is flat and parallel then you know the whole surface is square even at a single point of contact. I use them both.
We read above you do not like to part with your perfected work, that can become an issue trust these two we really love the things we work on or make and they tend to stay here at least one of two of them from a run. Seriously though thank you for the coolant lesson about letting that run in advance of starting your grind to stabilize the temperatures together. GREAT video and two men happy to be here watching you and the family share your work.
Real good grinding works...!!! (Probably that Don Bailey is watching and learning... lol ) Even greater to have our kids keeping an eye on our work when we get in the last third of our life... lol I agree with you that finding the right correction for the tilt can get quite confusing and requires full concentration. Best to make a good steel ind to the boring bar, that would allow for making a base to be able to replace inserts...
Thanks Uncle Randy. I saw Aunt Julie's quilt on Instagram, she did a great job! My favorite part was the treble clef with the red and pink flowers around it and Rachel liked the birds in top hats.
hi, sorry to bother you in such a place ) can you make a video about work on Nikon comparator, is it restored atm to the working condition? It is a thing which not many people can see in work or operational, can have great educational value even on a basic level.
Interesting, cant wait to see the boaring bar build. It takes you eight hours of grinding to square it to 15millionths, if I tried it would take me five minutes to destroy all the previous work:) Seriously though, thank you, I am learning so much!
I was intimidated by surface grinding at first but dad was there to walk me through it and everything turned out fine. I'm sure you'll do well too, it just takes a lot of patience.
Great grinding job! I am surprised you didn't try to make the sides aligned with the drilled holes but I realize that likely would have taken much longer.
Hi Brian, They should be very close. The whole block was within .0015 on the worst side even after heat treat. The tapped holes are just for clamping so they would have to be way out to cause issues. Steve
Nice you have somebody looking over shoulder and double checking your work...and laughing inside a little. Nice information on how you squared up the block (shimming).
@@RyanWeishalla Lol yea, it made for a good UA-cam video. I thought he was making a mistake but I wasn't 100% sure so I didn't say anything. Only when he measured it and realized something was off did I tell him what happened, lol. Next time I'll say something even if I'm not sure.
Hopefully in the end you let these people know that they can use a Hermann Schmidt grinding squareness magnet to reduce the time significantly it won't get you within Millions but extremely close quickly
Hi John, I have never used one of these before. When I was at the Bar Z Summer Bash Stan showed me his magnetic Squaring Block. It looked really nice and handy. We will be doing a future video using a Squaring Block to square up another Squaring Block which will go much faster as well. Steve
Hi! You guys are really good friends. A bespoke carbide boaring bar. I wonder what that would set Keith back if you guys didn’t gift him this specialized tool.
Come on, is that the best you can do?😁. Much respect for the skill. It must be a pain having to clean every time it goes on the plate and you're probably tired of hear the air blasts whistling out of the holes. Thanks for sharing!
I just had my granite plate lapped and certified. I knew it was out in some places but I knew where the best spot was. Before lapping it was out about .0005" in the worst spot. This is in 24"by 36". After lapping it was certified at .0001" in 24" by 36". I watch the man check it and it was better than .0001" but it was certified at .00001" Steve
Do you have a CMM at your day job? Your hand measurements are clearly repeatable and trustworthy, I'm just curious if CMM mapping speeds up the process of grinding to sub-tenths. Excellent video, excellent subject. Great camera work too!
Hi somebody else, Yes, at my full time job we have a few CMMs. I go out of my way to avoid mixing my full time job with Solid Rock Machine Shop. They are very sensitive over things like this (internal politics). Even if they would allow it I would never trust CMM results for something this accurate. I can't count how many times I have seen them off almost .0005 compared to a master set of Gage blocks. Steve
Hi Brian, I ended up using the same one. Radiac Ceramic Aluminum Oxide mix 8BP46 H800 VOS. I had to dress it more often to get the results I did. I would have rather used Radiac RAA46 H800 VOS but they were to small due to use. Steve
Hi Jason, I ended up using the same one. Radiac Ceramic Aluminum Oxide mix 8BP46 H800 VOS. I had to dress it more often to get the results I did. I would have rather used Radiac RAA46 H800 VOS but they were to small due to use. Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. Steve thank you for all the great info, been testing out some norton wheels.... you speak so highly of radiac I want to give them a try just trying to decide which one to start with. What would you suggest for general purpose radiac wheel
@@jasonmichaels6660 Radiac RAA46 H800 VOS but that one is out of stock till Feb. 2019 for my supplier. He is going to get me some Radiac that are very similar which are in stock now. I am hoping that they work even better, well see. Steve
We'll be running another batch of 6 once we get the finances to purchase the steel. Of those 6 I think 3 will be available for purchase at $975 each, plus shipping and handling. If you'd like to reserve one send us an email and let us know. (Our email is on our 'About' page) It might be another month or 2 before they will be ready since there's a bit of a waiting list, we're trying to take care of everyone in order. Kathy
I can clearly see that this can be extremely frustrating if your not paying attention or understanding where you need to grind! I know I would never ever need anything so precise, so if you got my block within .001, could you offer it for a bargin? 🤣🤣🤣🤣!! Very impressive Steve... Razor!
It seems to me that you are going to have to remove so much material for the boring bar to fit the insert that it will be potentially too weak. Why not grind a single point piece of carbide, or even high speed steel for a one off tool and silver solder to the end of the bar? That way you can keep 100% of the strength of the bar. A single tooth for that acme thread surely can't be out of the skills of someone of your talent. Given the small pitch diameter, the cutter may need extra relief due to the steeper helix angle.
Hi Barry, There are many different ways to do this. I even have a friend who could do and awesome job making it on his wire EDM. One of the reasons I am doing it this way is my own personal curiosity and wanting to see what methods I can make work. I am doing this as a favor to Keith, if he was paying for it I would be doing it a more conventional way. I believe what I am doing will work very well but there is always a chance of failure. If you watch some of the others videos like the ones with differential screws, wedge fine adjustment system and grinding Titanium you will see I do things to satisfy my own personal curiosity even though I have no current use for them. Yet, I learn a lot with these types of thing that may benefit greatly in future projects. Some projects work some don't but I always learn form them. Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Sorry if my question came off more pointed than I intended. After watching Keiths video and seeing how small the hole is and how big the tooth is to cut the acme, it seems like there will be a lot of force being applied to the cutter and hence wanting as big a bar as could possibly fit. I'm sure you have built the bar already and I wish you the best of success with it. Your work is very impressive. I'm off to watch the video you just posted.
Hi Barry, I appreciated your valid question and even thought it a good one. The questions I have issues with are the ones that are mean spirited and rude which I did not detect even in the slightest in yours. Steve
@@Molb0rg Lol that's funny! You can actually hear me laughing a bit on this one but since I'm behind the camera it's muffled. Somewhere around the 20:16 mark, but yea, a LOT of stuff gets cut for time purposes.
@@kathyb7126 yeah, I noticed, so that's why I wrote idk, how it works for you two - but I think you can take a more active part in a dialogue, why actually not. Needs testing how it works, but, there are channels(okay, a channel, that beyond the press one) when both are complementing each other in some aspect(a little bit artificial sometimes, but sometimes quite good) test maybe
I mean, if something is funny and you laugh - we aren't a tv thing, there is no such guideline all behind the scene have to be quiet. But needs to find what works, no need to force. As it is now it is good, but can it be better? why not - that This Old Tony - he definitely set a high bar for - there is no such thing as too much humor in a machining stuff, if done right. the field of options is very wide. Needs just to keep a hand on the pulse of feedback from normal people, for to navigate that sea of options, and not ruin a good thing and so as the understand which one is good and which one isn't. As I said earlier atm - everything is very solid as it is done now, so there definitely is a ground for testing something if there is such wish for that. And seems I do recall my impression about the channel year or more ago, if I'm not mistaken, and if I do not - quite a progress since then
@@Molb0rg Since the mic is pointed away from me, when I do participate it is barely audible on video and when we go through editing we cut out all non-essential information for time reasons so like you said, it would only show up on the director's cut, lol.
On previous videos, so as on this one, I wish to thank the camera operator.
It quite usual for smaller or bigger channels or even production teams, in cases when there is a cameraman, it is usual to point a camera in any direction but the object of a discussion. Not the case here and it is very much appreciated.
So not only grinding and explaining work is good, so as I thank for the operator work.
Thank you! We've been working on getting the camera set up just right for everyone.
Excellent results and great video with your explanation on why you do it the way you do!
Thanks Reid.
Steve
It's been a number of years since I've had to work to tolerances that close. I still remember how frustrating it can be, but also the feeling of accomplishment when the indicator read zero all the way around. Really nice work Steve! Thanks for doing the videos.
Thanks Rob.
Steve
Thanks for such educational and interesting videos. Great camera work too!
You're welcome
Steve
Measuring in millionths still blows my mind.Steve. Excellent video...👍👍👍
Thanks Ron.
Steve
How does the Indi-Square compare accuracy wise to the radius base indicator squareness comparator? Do you still use it?
The Indi-Square is nice in that it can travel up and down and check the whole surface of a part not just at point of contact like the Squareness Comparator checker. It is very accurate but not as much as the Squareness Comparator checker. To check the whole surface with the Squareness Comparator checker you have one more step involved. You need to check the flatness and parallel of the surface first. If it is flat and parallel then you know the whole surface is square even at a single point of contact. I use them both.
I need to learn to scrape 😔 great video!
Thanks Rick.
Steve
We read above you do not like to part with your perfected work, that can become an issue trust these two we really love the things we work on or make and they tend to stay here at least one of two of them from a run. Seriously though thank you for the coolant lesson about letting that run in advance of starting your grind to stabilize the temperatures together. GREAT video and two men happy to be here watching you and the family share your work.
When I put my heart into a project it is hard to part with but it brings me joy knowing someone else will be using it.
Steve
Real good grinding works...!!! (Probably that Don Bailey is watching and learning... lol )
Even greater to have our kids keeping an eye on our work when we get in the last third of our life... lol
I agree with you that finding the right correction for the tilt can get quite confusing and requires full concentration.
Best to make a good steel ind to the boring bar, that would allow for making a base to be able to replace inserts...
I was helping, lol. I'm actually surprised how much I picked up and learned just by filming this series.
Excellent job, very nice.
Thanks Randy.
Steve
Thanks Uncle Randy. I saw Aunt Julie's quilt on Instagram, she did a great job! My favorite part was the treble clef with the red and pink flowers around it and Rachel liked the birds in top hats.
Excellent series Steve. Clearly illustrates just how precision work is done and the time it takes to make it so.
Nice work Steve!
ATB, Robin
hi, sorry to bother you in such a place )
can you make a video about work on Nikon comparator, is it restored atm to the working condition?
It is a thing which not many people can see in work or operational, can have great educational value even on a basic level.
Thanks Robin.
Steve
@@Molb0rg it is finished ua-cam.com/video/gPo1QBZj1Hg/v-deo.html
thanks Steve...great video/instruction/discussion
You're welcome Chuck.
Steve
Do you have a video about that indicator stand base?
Hi Randy, here is one. ua-cam.com/video/N43ud0Uk8xQ/v-deo.html
Nice job Steve, that is impressive how accurate it turned out.
Interesting, cant wait to see the boaring bar build. It takes you eight hours of grinding to square it to 15millionths, if I tried it would take me five minutes to destroy all the previous work:) Seriously though, thank you, I am learning so much!
I was intimidated by surface grinding at first but dad was there to walk me through it and everything turned out fine. I'm sure you'll do well too, it just takes a lot of patience.
You're welcome.
Steve
VERY IMPRESSIVE
Thanks,
Steve
Great grinding job! I am surprised you didn't try to make the sides aligned with the drilled holes but I realize that likely would have taken much longer.
Hi Brian,
They should be very close. The whole block was within .0015 on the worst side even after heat treat. The tapped holes are just for clamping so they would have to be way out to cause issues.
Steve
Nice you have somebody looking over shoulder and double checking your work...and laughing inside a little. Nice information on how you squared up the block (shimming).
I should have said something, could have saved an hour or so of grinding, lol.
Maybe. But it was funnier this way and your dad took it well.
P.S., you do very well behind the camera, too.
@@RyanWeishalla Lol yea, it made for a good UA-cam video. I thought he was making a mistake but I wasn't 100% sure so I didn't say anything. Only when he measured it and realized something was off did I tell him what happened, lol. Next time I'll say something even if I'm not sure.
Hopefully in the end you let these people know that they can use a Hermann Schmidt grinding squareness magnet to reduce the time significantly it won't get you within Millions but extremely close quickly
Hi John,
I have never used one of these before. When I was at the Bar Z Summer Bash Stan showed me his magnetic Squaring Block. It looked really nice and handy. We will be doing a future video using a Squaring Block to square up another Squaring Block which will go much faster as well.
Steve
Hi Steve, nice video thanks. Are your grinder's slideways flat or roller types ?
They are roller. in the X axis and flat in the Y axis.
Steve
Hi! You guys are really good friends. A bespoke carbide boaring bar. I wonder what that would set Keith back if you guys didn’t gift him this specialized tool.
I only met Keith for a little bit of time and he is a real likable guy. We are just trying to help him out.
Steve
What is the best way to clean a granite surface plate? I have never really seen a good care and feeding howto for surface plates.
I use about 75/25 mix of Windex and Ammonia, works great.
Steve
Come on, is that the best you can do?😁. Much respect for the skill. It must be a pain having to clean every time it goes on the plate and you're probably tired of hear the air blasts whistling out of the holes.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi James,
It is time consuming and takes a lot of paper towels.
Steve
In the words of the great American philosopher Huey Lewis, "It's hip to be square"!
Let's see Paul Allen's squaring block
Amazing accuracy! How do you know that your granite table is that flat?
I just had my granite plate lapped and certified. I knew it was out in some places but I knew where the best spot was. Before lapping it was out about .0005" in the worst spot. This is in 24"by 36". After lapping it was certified at .0001" in 24" by 36". I watch the man check it and it was better than .0001" but it was certified at .00001"
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc wow, sounds like you know what you're doing. Thank you for the video and reply :)
Would an optical flat be of any help?
It might. I have never used one but I watched Robin Renzetti and Tom Lipton's videos on them and was impressed.
Steve
Do you have a CMM at your day job? Your hand measurements are clearly repeatable and trustworthy, I'm just curious if CMM mapping speeds up the process of grinding to sub-tenths. Excellent video, excellent subject. Great camera work too!
Hi somebody else,
Yes, at my full time job we have a few CMMs. I go out of my way to avoid mixing my full time job with Solid Rock Machine Shop. They are very sensitive over things like this (internal politics). Even if they would allow it I would never trust CMM results for something this accurate. I can't count how many times I have seen them off almost .0005 compared to a master set of Gage blocks.
Steve
Aw thank you! I actually learned a lot just by filming!
Outstanding job! Keep it up! I'm loving your content.
Thanks Thomas.
Steve
Thank you!
Beautiful piece. Looking forward to the boring tool build. Thanks.
Thanks John.
Steve
Does that mean, 50 millionth of an inch, per (linear) inch. ?
That is 50 millionth in 5".
Steve
Oh, sweet.
Hi Steve, what was your final choice of grinding wheel for the finish work ? Thanks !
Hi Brian,
I ended up using the same one. Radiac Ceramic Aluminum Oxide mix 8BP46 H800 VOS. I had to dress it more often to get the results I did. I would have rather used Radiac RAA46 H800 VOS but they were to small due to use.
Steve
What wheel did you use for your finish work?
Hi Jason,
I ended up using the same one. Radiac Ceramic Aluminum Oxide mix 8BP46 H800 VOS. I had to dress it more often to get the results I did. I would have rather used Radiac RAA46 H800 VOS but they were to small due to use.
Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc.
Steve thank you for all the great info, been testing out some norton wheels.... you speak so highly of radiac I want to give them a try just trying to decide which one to start with. What would you suggest for general purpose radiac wheel
@@jasonmichaels6660
Radiac RAA46 H800 VOS but that one is out of stock till Feb. 2019 for my supplier. He is going to get me some Radiac that are very similar which are in stock now. I am hoping that they work even better, well see.
Steve
Delicate machining when you pay attention to coolant temperature and work piece.
There are so many variables to consider when grinding accurate work. Temperature is a big one when splitting tenths of a thousands.
Steve
how can i buy one of these?
We'll be running another batch of 6 once we get the finances to purchase the steel. Of those 6 I think 3 will be available for purchase at $975 each, plus shipping and handling. If you'd like to reserve one send us an email and let us know. (Our email is on our 'About' page) It might be another month or 2 before they will be ready since there's a bit of a waiting list, we're trying to take care of everyone in order.
Kathy
I can clearly see that this can be extremely frustrating if your not paying attention or understanding where you need to grind!
I know I would never ever need anything so precise, so if you got my block within .001, could you offer it for a bargin? 🤣🤣🤣🤣!!
Very impressive Steve...
Razor!
Hi Razor,
We can work something out. It will be within a .0002" with just a basic first grind.
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc
That will be way beyond anything I would ever need. I definitely look forward to getting one! Thank you Steve!
FWIW, I’d make the insert replaceable... I.e, do the steel head with the screw hole.
It seems to me that you are going to have to remove so much material for the boring bar to fit the insert that it will be potentially too weak. Why not grind a single point piece of carbide, or even high speed steel for a one off tool and silver solder to the end of the bar? That way you can keep 100% of the strength of the bar. A single tooth for that acme thread surely can't be out of the skills of someone of your talent. Given the small pitch diameter, the cutter may need extra relief due to the steeper helix angle.
Hi Barry,
There are many different ways to do this. I even have a friend who could do and awesome job making it on his wire EDM. One of the reasons I am doing it this way is my own personal curiosity and wanting to see what methods I can make work. I am doing this as a favor to Keith, if he was paying for it I would be doing it a more conventional way. I believe what I am doing will work very well but there is always a chance of failure. If you watch some of the others videos like the ones with differential screws, wedge fine adjustment system and grinding Titanium you will see I do things to satisfy my own personal curiosity even though I have no current use for them. Yet, I learn a lot with these types of thing that may benefit greatly in future projects. Some projects work some don't but I always learn form them.
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Sorry if my question came off more pointed than I intended. After watching Keiths video and seeing how small the hole is and how big the tooth is to cut the acme, it seems like there will be a lot of force being applied to the cutter and hence wanting as big a bar as could possibly fit. I'm sure you have built the bar already and I wish you the best of success with it. Your work is very impressive. I'm off to watch the video you just posted.
Hi Barry,
I appreciated your valid question and even thought it a good one. The questions I have issues with are the ones that are mean spirited and rude which I did not detect even in the slightest in yours.
Steve
I have never heard you daughters laughing at you...😜
probably needs a director cut version for that ))
@@Molb0rg Lol that's funny! You can actually hear me laughing a bit on this one but since I'm behind the camera it's muffled. Somewhere around the 20:16 mark, but yea, a LOT of stuff gets cut for time purposes.
@@kathyb7126 yeah, I noticed, so that's why I wrote
idk, how it works for you two - but I think you can take a more active part in a dialogue, why actually not. Needs testing how it works, but, there are channels(okay, a channel, that beyond the press one) when both are complementing each other in some aspect(a little bit artificial sometimes, but sometimes quite good)
test maybe
I mean, if something is funny and you laugh - we aren't a tv thing, there is no such guideline all behind the scene have to be quiet. But needs to find what works, no need to force.
As it is now it is good, but can it be better? why not - that This Old Tony - he definitely set a high bar for - there is no such thing as too much humor in a machining stuff, if done right.
the field of options is very wide. Needs just to keep a hand on the pulse of feedback from normal people, for to navigate that sea of options, and not ruin a good thing and so as the understand which one is good and which one isn't.
As I said earlier atm - everything is very solid as it is done now, so there definitely is a ground for testing something if there is such wish for that.
And seems I do recall my impression about the channel year or more ago, if I'm not mistaken, and if I do not - quite a progress since then
@@Molb0rg Since the mic is pointed away from me, when I do participate it is barely audible on video and when we go through editing we cut out all non-essential information for time reasons so like you said, it would only show up on the director's cut, lol.