Cold Waters: Baffling (USS Seawolf SSN-21)
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
- Cold Waters: Baffling (USS Seawolf SSN-21)
Submarine Simulation
G'day ladies and gents, Today once again I run into a couple of solo submarines on my way to my next mission and once again I take them out with no issue, Sounds pretty boring? I figured as much so for today's video rather than live game play instead I have a post commentary explaining how I can take them down so easily, even on Elite difficulty.
I hope you enjoy!
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Clearly the Devs need to add in randomised crazy Ivan manuvers.
I would like to see that yes.
Oh, they do. I've seen it multiple times. I've been in the -50/-50 position before and just about to fire when the target pulled the Crazy Ivan. Kept me from firing until I could maneuver back into position for the kill shot.
Don't submarines amd ASW craft follow zig zag patterns in real life?
The baffles are more a function of the position of the sonar than the machinery noises of the submarine. Large passive sonar arrays can of course not be rear-facing because there would be no place to mount it other than in a very large, bulbous sail. Large passive arrays are mounted in the bow, where there will necessarily be a blind spot in the baffles because the sonar cannot see through the submarine, regardless of whether or not there is acoustic shielding between the sonar and submarine. Making periodic turns and using a towed array large eliminate the problem with the baffles. Please forgive my pedantry.
Magz your Cold Waters series is fantastic, very professional. If you were to release an unedited hour long sub hunt, I would certainly watch!
Retired US Navy Submariner here. Very nice discussion!
I just got the game - my first.
if you don't mind me asking, what sub did you serve on?
Very informative commentary Magz
The most informative video for cold waters that I really appreciate. U give viewers that r not knowledgeable on submarine warfare a understanding on what's what. 👍👍👏👏✌✌
Love this series magz!
I know I'm late to the party here. For the record, pretty much every nuclear-powered submarine in service (with only a very few exceptions) actually are propelled by steam turbines connected to that gearbox (reduction gear set). Motors would be more quiet, and could (and usually are) directly coupled to the shaft, for the boats that have them as main propulsion units.
IIRC, the new Columbia ballistic-missile sub design destined to replace the Ohio class will have a turbo-electric drive, where a steam turbine drives a generator, which then drives an electric motor. The motor may even be mounted outside the pressure hull (not sure), which would eliminate the need for a seal around the propeller shaft.
100th like, oh yeah.... :P Great videos Magz, and it is awesome to learn things when watching a gaming channel :)
The subs with towed arrays do not have the blind spot to the rear, the Towed arrays blind spot is actually to the front.
However you have to extend it a certain distance for it to be effective, and in shallow waters, the further you extend it, the more likely it is to drag and hit bottom which is not good.
Towed arrays also dislike sudden dashes and torpedo evasion manouvers, so the good news is that this game doesn't let you worry about that.
If you were playing Dangerous Waters instead, that would be a new thing you would have to manage.
Towed arrays are basically always deployed in this.
I just got Cold Waters and all this is very helpful! Note to self: The baffles are your angel, or your devil.
I bought the game a week ago and thanks to your tipps and tricks i'm doing very well on difficulty setting hard. ;)
Love the videos, mags
Loving this series
Another game I don't have for but I get to play vicariously through you... LOL
How to create the biggest baffles cone for enemy submarines:
Magztv sinks them.
good job Magz!
3:23
_pinnnnnnnnnng!_
"......ahhhh sssssssshit!"
"RIGHT FULL RUDDER! ALL AHEAD FLANK! DEPLOY COUNTERMEASURES!"
Thanks for the explanation!
I have watched a few other UA-camrs play Cold Waters. There is one guy that sees something on sonar. He then goes to periscope depth to see what is out there. He shoots at periscope depth and wonders why he gets killed. He has a strategy. It is to be a target for the AI.
Yeah, I've seen stuff like that before on twitch.
Guy would do great in 1918, less so in 2018
Shit, how much I like your explanations. It sounds all familiar to me, since I played Red Storm Rising, back in the late 80ies, early 90ies. Cheers.
I love you magz
Most new torps dont have launch transits as they just swim out of the tubes by themselves. About the blind spot: in 99% of the time the subs woulf have towed arrays out (which for whatever reason are not in the game) that allow you to listen much better and behind you. Their blind spot is towards the front but this is covered by the subs internal sonar
Mk.48's with swim-out ability came into service after the time this campaign is based (late 2010's they are actually very new) so they simply don't exist within CW's time-frame.
As for TAS yes and no, Very few and usually only the most modern Russian post cold war designed Subs have TAS. While it is common on NATO boats I am not hunting NATO boats, Almost all soviet era designs such as the Alfa for example have no towed array so there baffles are very much open.
Thanks for explanation
Very enjoyable game!
Well played, I am learning along.
Are there games the include the new Virginia Class Subs?
Or do they let u hunt in packs with allies?
Shot on the baffles is the best way to do it but the detection can happen if you have a trailling sonar.
Also the AI does not use depth to evade which makes it that much easier.
Nuclear submarines all use mechanical transmissions for primary propulsion -- steam is generated from the nuclear reactor's heat output, and used to drive a turbine that connects through a reduction gear to the shaft. Emergency and non-primary propulsion systems, on the other hand, would be electric.
The turbo-electric transmission system you described hasn't been used by the US Navy since SSN-685.
I am pretty sure I didn't describe any system directly mate, Just a collection of components that are present in some form in almost all nuclear submarine designs that are the primary points for noise generation. Reactor, Engines, Gearing and Prop.
ua-cam.com/video/53gy6gDDB10/v-deo.html
Not first.
Awesome videos magz!
"Clearing the baffles" (aka "Crazy Ivan") - very similar to "check 6" in a combat aircraft with limited rear visibility, usually an "S" turn. I would expect the AI to do this, but at what intervals? Best practice would be at random intervals, but it could not be done very often in shallow water because the sub is going slow anyway to avoid cavitation, and it has someplace else it wants to get to.
What about the towed sonar array? Does it get affected by the baffles or the engine when the submarine is in silent running or still?
Nice attack indeed. Interesting that the AI did not counter fire at all.
I am looking forward to the day Cold Waters opens up multi player platforms.
I'm curious, as an old sub sailor, why don't the stricken subs use their ballast blow to save the crew?
modern submarines get around the issue of baffles by using long wires towed behind the sub that have very sensitive microphones on them. This allows them to have the mics a long distance from all of the noise of the sub. It also lets them see behind the sub. Towed arrays are modeled in Cold Waters, just not visually as they don't work well with the physics engine.
Yes. . . But not all submarines have TAS in fact there are very few Soviet boats with TAS. If I was hunting NATO boats TAS would be quite an issue however.
MagzTV true, I think it’s only the improved kilos and Akula classes that get them, and I don’t think they’re in this game.
The only problem I have found is I only very rarely encounter 1 sub at a time, usually there are a few and you cant be in the baffles of all of them at the same time.
Great explanation, but you forgot to mention that the baffles don't exist if the sub is moving at low or 0 speed due to towed arrays and activation of rear facing sensors.
Probably lost in comments, tbh.
Submarines can hear behind themselves quite easily if they are equipped with TAS.
Using Seawolf makes the game pretty easy.
Why can't a towed array detect to the rear, since it's towed behind the prop?
Oh the AI probability calculation thing explains why in the -68 campaign I'm able to sink 3 subs with 1 torpedo (Cheese strats).
Questions:
1. How often do you encounter Diesel electric subs?
2. How the hell do you hear a so called Black hole sub from further away when it does you?(Having the Kilo in mind mostly)
Kilos are hard to detect but they are not as silent as you may think. The main difference with detecting Diesel electric submarines as apposed to Nuclear subs is that they don't have any reactor noise, That's it.
They still use electric motors, They still have to run through some kind of gear assembly on the main drive shaft and they have a propeller. Three of the four primary noise generating systems are still in place, If they are moving they can be spotted.
But why Do you always detect them before they detect you?
In theory they should be a lot quilter than an nuclear one and a Kilo should have some very decent sonar equip as its one of the newer ones.
Kilo was designed in the 70's with the first boats entering service in 1980
Sea-wolf's design started in 1983 but she didn't enter service until 1997 after a large number of upgrades and improvements to her design.
Kilo is a good sub by Russian standards, It's also a decade and a half older in design and over two decades older in terms of systems (Kilos sonar systems where taken directly from the Victor II).
Add to that Russian service and equipment upgrades vs the same for NATO.
+Skyer
_"But why Do you always detect them before they detect you?"_
Better SONAR and detection. And American subs benefit from billions of dollars worth of sound/acoustic dampening technologies. The Sturgeon-class, which was introduced in 1963, has an acoustic profile that's only slightly larger than the Soviet Akula-class submarine which debuted about 20 years later. Subs like the Seawolf-class have ridiculously good and well designed SONAR systems and acoustic dampening. And there's a reason why they cost *_$3,000,000,000_* per submarine (basically about 1/3-1/4 the cost of an American Nimitz/Gerald Ford class aircraft carrier).
magz why the russians spent all that money to upgrade the victor for all i khow is a terible sub
But Magz you should attack from the from so that i will be more cinematic!!
The poor AI never stood a chance...
Do surface ships have a baffle?
Or how about a mission with a USSBN , allowing u to Nuke a land target?
Or the new Columbia USSBN ?
Why don’t you use the swim out torps ? They don’t have launch transient
Because swim out torps are not available in game, Mk.48's with that ability came into service after the time this campaign is based so they simply don't exist within CW's time-frame.
I'm still on the fence whether or not I should by this game: It seems fun, but, compared to Silent Hunter, simple and "short" and lacks operation of Soviet submarines. And while I have only now started my SH3 career, it may not be on a sale anytime soon, however.
I think they plan on making Soviet subs playable. It is a great game :-)
Thanks.
That would be great, as far as I know some single missions with Soviet submarines have been added recently.
Doesn't the game feel somewhat repetitive and empty, however? The "strategic gameplay" (map screen) is very simplified.
That moment when you get killed by g-lock 3 times in a row, so than you switch to your tiger E. Then you get sniped by a wyvern and the next mach you get flanked by a m18 black cat who just flanked your team and took personal offence to your livelihood and put a shell dreclly into your ammo blowing your tank to smithereens. You final decide it's just not your day, so go play arma 3 and watch cold waters.
Does somebody of you know, why my sub surfaces when i am loweing my speed or firing a torpedo? It always starts rising afterwards even though i'm using the "set depth" mechanic.
mongo mongo Its a bug that has been on the game for a while now. If you put -5 on the depth control your sub should stay leveled.
Can i use the set depth mechanic then? Thx for your answer.
mongo mongo Well set depth literally just sets depth. Once the autopilot has done its job you should just put the BAL to -5
You are completely wrong about our capabilities in detecting targets in rear of the submarine (baffles). Even old TB-16 and TB-23 towed arrays on 688 Los Angeles class were capable of detecting rear contacts. Proper simulators like Sierra’s 1996 Fast Attack and products from Sonalysts are properly simulating this.
Actually, theh Alfa's reactor has no water, it is lead cooled.
Still needs a bunch of pumps and turbines to circulate the heat exchanger and generate power. The distinction is academic.
What is wrong with your AI? Even if i launch perfect attack strikes from behind, like you showed this in your video, i always get counterfire and they at least drop a noise maker. This AI is more of a joke...
If you are doing a perfect attack with a center-line torpedo and the enemy is reacting then you are not doing a perfect attack simple as that. My first guess is you are close enough to the target and out of it's baffles that it or another nearby surface ship or boat is hearing the launch so you are televising your attack before you even start guiding the torp.
They are not reacting until the torp is within the one ky range. And my sub is always around 10 ky away. I think this is a perfect attack but they always counterfire. PS: There were no other subs around. Pls help ;)