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Was Barbarossa delayed by Yugoslavia?
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2023
- In the early histories of the Second World War, it was argued that the German invasion of Yugoslavia and Greece resulted in a delay of over a month for the invasion of the Soviet Union. But is this really the case?
This video is discussing events or concepts that are academic, educational and historical in nature. This video is for informational purposes and was created so we may better understand the past and learn from the mistakes others have made.
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ABOUT TIK 📝
History isn’t as boring as some people think, and my goal is to get people talking about it. I also want to dispel the myths and distortions that ruin our perception of the past by asking a simple question - “But is this really the case?”. I have a 2:1 Degree in History and a passion for early 20th Century conflicts (mainly WW2). I’m therefore approaching this like I would an academic essay. Lots of sources, quotes, references and so on. Only the truth will do.
The biggest mistake about invading Yugoslavia wasn’t the delay but the amount of troops Germany had to keep there to garrison the area . It had the biggest resistance to axis
Yes, and it was perfectly suitable. It wasn't their culture that made them feel resistant, but political factors and their geography, which made resisting feel more convenient and useful since the Germans will have to penetrate the mountains which is already a natural defense barrier. Easy to cut off roads, sabotage, easy to hide...The Germans really had to heavily guard that area. Generally the worse the area's conditions are the better it is for the guerrillas all around the world.
I mean the Germans wanted Yugoslavia as an ally and never had long term intentions to invade the country. Hitler wanted them to join the axis and gave them an opportunity. Yugoslavia initially signed to join the Axis pact but the government overthrown by a pro British anti Germany puppet which angered Hitler. The Germans weren't stupid they knew the Balkans were going to a long term headache and complete mess if they invaded which is why they wanted to solve it peacefully initially but the British and Americans outplayed them and forced their hand in the region. The one fatal mistake however was putting the Ustase in power instead of the Croatian Peasant Party which the Germans initially wanted but Vladko Maček leader of the party refused. The Ustase were an awful ally that directly hurt German interests by making the region even more unstable, causing it to descend into full scale ethnic warfare/genocide, causing people to run into the hands of the communist partisans and made ruling the region a complete nightmare for themselves.
Polish People had an underground government and a co ordinated underground Military
+ Government in Exile with Polish Military with Allies
they should have just given control of all of Yugoslavia to Bulgaria so they could core them
They guarded Yugoslavia with 2nd rate troops, it was not rest and recreation area like France, true, but still it was not bad for them. Only genocidal policies and zeal of ustashe started to fuel rebellion against them. When you have option to be slaughtered like animal or fight them,what you choose?
Despite the low casualties to the Germans, they lost almost the entire 2d Panzer division. After the campaign, the panzers were loaded onto a ship for easier rail transport for the soon to be opened Eastern Front. However, the ship carrying the tanks was sunk by a British Submarine and the tanks for the division ended up on the bottom of the Adriatic Sea.
any info on ship name? there are nice books on shipwrecks of Adriatic i dont remember a bunch of panzers on any! perhaps an undiscovered shipwreck?
@@rcajavus8141 At the end of the campaign the 2nd Panzer Division returned to Vienna for refitting, with parts of the division transported by sea and suffering heavy losses when the transport ships Marburg and Kybfels hits mines (laid by HMS Abdiel) and sank.[5][7]
From the greatest source Wikipedia
That's really unfortunate. Did they at least save the 3d panzer divisions? I guess so since they did have tanks. However I agree losing the 2d tanks with their paper thin profiles must have hurt.
Fake bullshet story
That was probably the biggest contribution to the Allied side of the Balkan campaign...
Great work TIK!
Two fun facts I want to share:
1) Hungarian Prime Minister, Pal Teleki, who signed the treaty of friendship with Yugoslavia 5 months prior to invasion, shot himself on 3rd of April.
2)King Alexander of Yugoslavia was assassinated in Marseille together with the French Foreign Minister, Lousi Barthou, who was the biggest and most active opponent of Hitler in Europe.
Not only that, but Pál Teleki said in his final note to Horthy that "we became oathbreakers... we sided with scoundrels because of atrocities that were never committed, not against the Hungarians, nor against the Germans! We became grave robbers! The most despicable nation!
I couldn't stop you.
I am at fault."
Teleki killed himself because he knew that attacking Yugoslavia meant joining the war on the side of the Nazi and he spent years trying to prevent that i don't think he had any sympathy for Yugoslavia.
These are facts, but I would not call a suicide and two homicide "fun"...
@Peter Matanovic Where is the fun?
Teleki was nobleman, guy with word in politics. These noble types probably do not exist anymore.
As a man born in Yugoslavia, I thank you for bringing light to our role in history of WW2... Much love amd respect!
the 3rd world pop was who benefitted the most from this war..all white countries are filled with them.
Here is some light. Tito was also an ally of Hitler until Hitler split with Stalin. They were all socialists and mass murderers. Glorifying them should be punished by law.
Same
Da samo sto se malo zajebo na samom pocetku i rekao prince Paul koji nije bio princ niti je bio Paul vec knez namesnik Pavle Karadjordjevic.
@@NabaciKezNerviranjaBez Oni tako nazivaju Kneza Pavla. Kao sto je kod njih Nikola = Nick. Eto. Vestacki stvoren Engleski jezik. Sta ces.
"Is this really the case?" has become one of the most important questions I found myself asking when I have questions about already covered history, so thank you for indirectly teaching me to ask questions I'd otherwise haven't. I really enjoy learning things with your style of documentation, especially since I have to say a lot of what you covered here is new to me.
Really appreciate it.
Another hints, Maribor in Slovenia and Zagreb actually did not felt since it population saluted the German army and throwing flowers, on other side Belgrade yes, although German attack was only few weeks, resistance units started to uprise firsty Chetnik Royal movement and after German attack on USSR, Partisans started their revolt but again consisted mostly from Serbs, and both movement were active until the of the WW2, so war in Yugoslavia did not ended in 12 days as you say.
This "analysis" omits the following:
1. In Yugoslavia alone, some 912K (at their peak) Axis troops were stationed in Yugoslavia alone to attempt to keep it, these were professional soldiers, tank, and infantry divisions that should've been deployed against Soviet Russia, this is nearly a million soldiers that would've obviously improved Germany's odds if they managed to get to Russia, the total KIA losses of the Axis were 230K, of which 103-104K were German soldiers.
2. There were more Axis divisions stationed in Yugoslavia than in Italy during the Allied Invasion of Italy, the already-garrisoned German divisions in Yugoslavia had to be repeatedly switched with other divisions from the Eastern Front throughout the entirety of the war, therefore further impeding the German war effort in Soviet Russia.
3. The Axis initiated seven large offensives against the Yugoslav Partisans, and all of them failed, and at the Syrmian Front, the German retreat was annihilated.
4. Yugoslavia did not just delay Barbarossa, but it defeated the Axis armies stationed there, therefore putting a permanent end to any idea of being deployed to the front that decided the war.
5. The argument presented in the video is of the same variety as "General Winter", one-dimensional revisionism fueled by anti-Communist and anti-Slavic dogma, Western historians cannot agree with the fact that "some Yugoslavia" had outdone and out-contributed a Great European power - France, in particular, in the form of "abominable Communist" partisans.
Well, some things are true in your comment that only the Serbs were among the first to rebel and the Chetniks will not quite hold.
If we look at some essential data for Slovenia alone, our TIGR, an abbreviation for Trieste, Istra, Gorica, and Reka, full name Revolutionary Organization of the Julian March T.I.G.R. ) among the first in this part of Europe to resist the fascist occupier. On November 12, 1920, the Rapala Treaty was signed, which determined the border between the two countries: Italy recognized the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovens Repubby signing it, and in return Italy acquired a large part of the Slovenian settlement area, where more than 320,000 Slovenians lived.
On July 13, 1920, the Italian fascists burned down the Slovenian National House in Trieste and several other cultural centers, and committed other excesses. So, for example, in so-called punitive expeditions around coastal towns and villages, they destroyed schools, workers' and cultural centers, parsonages, etc. In doing so, they had the open support of the Italian authorities. In the period from 1919 to 1920 alone, the fascists attacked, smashed or burned around 130 Slovenian cultural and economic headquarters or buildings.
Many Slovenians were forced into confinement in the south of Italy or fled to Yugoslavia (over 100,000)
The fascist oppression of the Slovenian-speaking inhabitants of Primorska intensified even more after 1922, i.e. with the fascist takeover of power in Italy, which took place on October 28, 1922
Fascism provoked a general resistance among Slovenes, from spontaneous to armed. The first clashes of the people of Primorje with the occupying army began in 1919 (Ostožno brdo, Osp), and the real bloody clashes began in 1921 (Marezige, Osp), when the first victims fell on both sides. The first organizers of the resistance were communists, teachers and priests, and the first striking force was the youth organization from which the legendary Struggle was born. The illegal resistance in Julian Krajina was later joined by the ORJUNA organization from Yugoslavia, which harbored hatred for Italy and fascism because of the lost territories and carried out terrorist, intimidation and other actions.
MORE at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIGR
On April 26, 1941, it was agreed in Ljubljana to establish a resistance organization (Kommunist party of Slovenia members called it the Anti-Imperialist Front), which, after the German attack on the Soviet Union on 22.6.1941, was renamed the Liberation Front of the Slovenian Nation in slovenian Osvobodilna Fronta Slovenskega naroda = OF. OF was founded the day before, on 26.4. 1941, in the house of writer Josip Vidmar, where representatives of several political parties and cultural workers met. These were: Boris Kidrič, Boris Ziherl, Aleš Bebler (for the Communist Party), Josip Rus (for the left wing Sokol), Tone Fajfar (for the Christian Socialists), Ferdo Kozak, Franc Šturm and Josip Vidmar (for the Slovenian Cultural Workers). The original name when it was founded was "Anti-Imperialist Fronta". It was created ten days after the Yugoslav army signed the surrender in Belgrade, and a good 14 days after the occupation of Slovenia and Yugoslavia.
In the end, the most important thing is that Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosnians, Montenegrins and Macedonians together resisted the enemy / occupier, who had a plan to destroy the South Slavs. If our ancestors had not resisted, including my great-grandfather, history would have been written differently (probably in the end we would have been liberated by both the Western Allies and the Soviet Red Army and dismembered the old Yugoslavia, the Allies would have wanted King Peter II. back, but the Soviets would not would allow this, the question will forever be what it was). Kind regards! Death to fascism and freedom to the nation!
Just to make it clear, since historians in Europe keep forgeting it, Yugoslavs that were resisting were 95% SERBS, not Croatians, not Bosnians, not Slovenians. All those others were AXIS powers and they butchered us in 1940s. Which you Europeans FORGOT and you bombed us in 1945 just to "be sure" you killed all "Germans" in Yugoslavia and you bombed us again in 1991-1995, and again in 1998-1999, and you took OUR Kosovo in 2004... So I guess thats a big THANKS for our sacrifice. Well, thanks bros... Keep considering Croats as your better friends than us, the biggest butchers of 20th century
cursed profile pic
Don't forget how much sacrifice Greece had made against the Axis (both Italy and then Nazi Germany). So much so that, even the Soviet Union credited Greece for its resistance against Italy and Germany.
No man, Balkan were secondary battleground, the war was decided in steppes of Russia and sky above Western Europe
@@robrob9050 Every resistance contributed. Greece had no real chance against the odds, but still stood. That should always be recognised.
@@ltmund I agree with you, but if the main allied forces lost, resistance in Balkans would be just minor irritation limited in time to Nazis, not actually big deal.
@@robrob9050 Greece wasn't minor to the Italian units that invaded it.
Nobody disputes on The suffering of The greeks during this periode, but no. I have not read anything like what you Are stating
Here is a quote from John Keegan's "The Second World War".
"The Balkan Campaign, often depicted by historians as an unwelcome diversion by Hitler's long laid plan to attack the Soviet Union and as a disabling interruption of the timetable he had marked out for its inception, had been in fact no such thing. It had been successfully concluded even more rapidly than his professional military advisors could have anticipated; While the choice of D-Day for Barbarossa had always depended not on sequence of contingent events but on the weather and objective military factors. The German army found it more difficult than expected to position the units alocated for Barbarossa in Poland; while the lateness of the spring thaw, which left the Eastern European rivers in spade beyond the predicted date, meant that Barbarossa could not have begun very much earlier than the third week of June, whatever Hitler's intentions."
In essence, the weather was not feasable for an operation in mid May. The lack of infastructure meant that the operation in May would be over muddy roads and rivers that overflowed their banks. Rivers like the Dnieper, Dvina and Bug would be big obstacles. The weather conditions for an armored speared offensive were only achieved in mid June. Balkan campaign had no influence over the start of Barbarossa.
"In essence, the weather was not feasable for an operation in mid May" Oh really, what's so terrible about the beautiful month of may? Sounds like a bunch of BS to me! ;-)
@@kilianklaiber6367 Rasputitsa lasted a bit longer that year. Almost feels like divine intervention, subtle but significant.
@@kilianklaiber6367 > what's so terrible about the beautiful month of may?
In general - nothing. But 1941 was colder-than-average year, so Mid-may was more like late April: "the *lateness of the spring thaw,* which left the Eastern European *rivers in spade beyond the predicted date,* meant that Barbarossa could not have begun very much earlier than the third week of June, whatever Hitler's intentions."
@@kilianklaiber6367 " *what's so terrible about the beautiful month of may?* "
Occasional snowstorms.
At best Barbarossa could have gone off maybe a week earlier. Such a time window would have, possibly, given enough time for Germany to secure some additional ground like taking Tula at the end of the campaign, but could not have changed the overall strategic outcome of the fighting.
My great grandfather Tomislav was deployed on the border with Bulgaria. They sat in dugouts for few days, but on the third day they found out that all the officers have fled. NCOs then ordered to open ammunition crates but the crates were empty. Having nothing to fight with, NCOs disbanded their units telling them to flee, every man for himself. My great grandfather went around the area with several men for couple of days only to be found by Germans and took captive. He spent the rest of the war in POW camp in Austria. His life there was very colorful, but that is another matter.
May his soul resting in peace🙏🏻 ☦️ Поздрав из Русије свим храбрим југословенским браћама и сестрама 🇷🇺❤🇷🇸 🇲🇪🇲🇰
@@Ment2703 thank you. He actually survived the whole ordeal, came back to his village from Belgrade on foot, only to be put in jail again, couple of years after, just because he didn't want to give his land to the state. He lived on after he got out for long time, died of very old age.
@@Ment2703 pozdrav za Rusiju nasu nadu jedinu
@@vilijamkil5937 🇷🇸☦️🙏🏻❤️🇷🇺
@@vilijamkil5937 XD
I absolutely embrace the uploads on this channel. There is nothing even close out there to bringing the objective truth in the second world war.
That's not fair. I love TIK's work but it isn't like he is the only person working in WWII history who cares about truth.
@@johnpoole3871 There is a difference between caring and actually getting the job done.
@@johnwolf2829 tiger I should work if possible
Oh Yes there is, it is Churchills History of WWII
@@chrislambert9435 Oh come on, Churchill's history of WW2 should be thrown in the garbage, it's total fiction. Guy paints himself as the hero whilst being a genocidal war criminal, luckily, our God is a just God, and he'll be where he belongs.
Hi TIK, many thanks for this video! Many people claim this so it's good to have your "is this really the case?" take on it.
Flag this TIK
I really had the feeling you watch TIK. I started watching you recently and subscribed because you actually understood definitions. Really nice not having to roll my eyes whenever an ideology is wrongly identified.
Some other guy just replied to you too but youtube instantly deleted his comment seeing as how it disappeared. Happens to me constantly. Especially if I use a no no word like "inva-er"
All he said was "Flag this TIK"
Can we hope for a co-op video in the future? Maybe something about the war in the Netherlands? Maybe a Battlestorm Benelux?
There you go again, picking on my beloved Halder. Franz was warm! Franz was kind! Franz could dance the pants off of Churchill!
Keep up the good work, TIK. Another fascinating episode.
Personally, I'm more impressed by his ability to paint an entire apartment in one afternoon (two coats).
@@calebchristensen8207 Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!
I genuinely wonder if Halder literally ever told the truth
Thank you, TIKhistory.
Hey tik i just to say keep up the good work i've been watching you since I was 14 now I'm 19 and the amount of things you shine light on is phenomenal. I just want to tell even though we may not comment as often we support you. So never guve always remember that there is people like me who respect the work you do.
Good on ya
I read the Rise at age 15 in 1960 , it was not a slow read I was so fascinated to have a comprehensive book , remember folks in 1060 the war was only 15 years before . Fresh history as I call it was in my life all the time, my teachers had served in the war , I lived in the New York metro area . Many Saturdays I was in Canal street in nyc culling thru surplus stuff that was real .
By the way Canal area was later part of the World Trade Center development. So yes I have walked it at age 15 and in 2002 as well . I love your videos , at my age of 78 I have lived close to it all from a time perspective. You dust off the jacket covers of my book list and bring in much needed light . What you do is very hard work , but you are shedding much needed light . But remember writers in 1960 lived and breathed it in real time and the forest of direct experience is thick with emotion and perspective that is narrow compared to yours . So don’t be too harsh on them . Which you are not and old guys like me , we are passing into history. Be well , stay the course .
Well said.
As a child of the 50's I grew up in the shadow of the war, which was made alive by my father, his pals, my uncles & neighbors, veterans to a man. The grown women in my life also had stories. (And pictures.)
DOUG out
No. The German army needed only 11 days to complete its occupation of Yugoslavia. And the Northern Croats were fanatical Nazi sympathizers.
Barbarossa was delayed by the Greek defense, that started in October 1940 against the Italians, pushed them back until March 1941; then the Germans attacked together with the Bulgarians in April 1941 and did not complete their occupation before the 1st of June 1941. Overall, it delayed the Axis powers 9 months before securing their Southern flank and their precious Romanian oil fields.
Stalin, Zhukov, Churchill all thanked Greece for her sacrifice that allowed the Russians to regroup and cost the Germans the war.
They anticipated a 1-month campaign and minimal occupation burden. They got an 11-day campaign with geurrilla wars that produced bodies just as fast as the campaign.
Thank you Tik for bringing this deep rooted myth to justice. Here in Greece this myth is especially popular since the official narrative is essentially that the Greeks delayed the Germans and they in turn postponed Barbarossa resulting in them getting stuck in Russia during the winter.
However, when the topic came up in history class I remember (it was a long time ago) that I openly objected to "The Narrative" since it just wasn't true. The most disheartening thing was that everyone stared at me not knowing that you can actually challenge what you are being told (crazy right). At the end, the teacher read the book which I had brought to school it was Alstair Parker's "The second world war" where he argued that the Germans didn't not postpone the invasion due to the Balkan campaign but rather due to some troops needing training (which couldn't be really earlier) and because of the weather conditions you mentioned (the river boug was overflowed).
In addition to that, what is worth mentioning (adding to the video) was that nobody in the German high command was worried one bit. The Germans thought that ten weeks would be enough to pacify the Soviet Union.
Thank you for your videos tik ❤️
Surely we contributed way more in defeating the axis, both Yugoslavia and Greece, than your "friend" the turks...Albanian. And to think of how we got repayed by the victors. Both nations had the choice, either to remain neutral (Greece, provided Hitler would stop the Italian bss) or neutral co-beligerent (Yugoslavia). Both, chose to fight and SUFFER, when Turks were receiving gifts by the axis (tanks etc) untill almost the end of the war to fight on their side, declaring themselves "pro"- allies with the Russians only some kms from Berlin. So BOTH nations chose to fight, with the "generous" "help" of the british machinations... and to think how they got repayed in the post ww2...personaly, I would be quite SCEPTICAL, if a "churchill" had asked me to be "hero" like my grandfathers were...
Οι Ρωσοι επανειλημενως εχουν ευχαριστησει την Ελλαδα και οτι επαιξε σπουδαιο ρολο κρατωντας δυναμεις των Γερμανων εδω
@@nikosmak388 Οι Ρώσοι μπορεί να λένε ότι λένε κυρίως λόγω πολιτικών σκοπιμοτήτων. Ωστόσο κατά τη διάρκεια της Άνοιξης του 41 όπου έγινε καί η επιχείρηση Μαρίτα υπό την επίβλεψη του στρατηγού List εμείς απλά ως Έλληνες δεν προξενησαμε κάποια ουσιαστική απώλεια. Οι Γερμανοί καθυστέρησαν λόγω καιρικών συνθηκών, εκπαίδευσης στρατευμάτων και χάσανε εν τέλει λόγω των αποστάσεων.
Το έπος του 40 είναι μια σημαντική στιγμή για τον Ελληνισμό και κατά τη διάρκεια του Ελληνοϊταλικού πολέμου είχαμε μια ικανοποιητική απόδοση αλλά στους Γερμανούς δεν προξενησαμε καμία ζημιά.
Τώρα αργότερα αν και είναι αλήθεια πως βρίσκονταν πολλά στρατεύματα του Άξονα στην Ελλάδα αυτοί βρίσκονταν κυρίως για να αποτρέψουν μια πιθανή Βρετανική εισβολή.
@@vasilykatuma5689turks arent friends of albanians and also its not the fault of the turks that metaxas was a puppet of the brits and made greece join the war
It is interesting to think about, though in the end even with no invasion of either greece or yugoslavia, operation Barbarossa was still doomed to fail from it's inception
Regardless if it did, the wars in this area were certainly a drain on other fronts.
The resulting partisan war was a real thorn in the German's side.
Eventually they certainly were but I don't think they significantly contributed to Germany's failure to defeat the USSR in 1941.
@@johnpoole3871 Not maybe in 1941,but as war dragged on,Partisans became huge pain in axis asses. By the 1943,Germans them selfs had 300 thousand men in Yugoslavia and god knows how many tanks,air crafts and artillery. This is 300 thousand men that would be useful in east front for operation Citadel or for defense of Africa or Sicily,but they were stuck in Yugoslavia,trying to root out Partisans from forest covered mountains and steep canyons
@Samson Soturian and @@Weeboslav how big the hassle would have been if UK, or after 1941, Allies landed in non-german occupied Yougoslavia?
@TukozAki Not really feasible since the Italian navy still could contest the opening to the Adriatic Sea
Hitler gave Yugoslavia status as Switzerland, but British didn't let that happened. Instead they backed up a coup which ended up disastrous for ethnic Serbs - they were butchered by Catholic Croats and Bosnian muslims ustashe in a frenzy; 700.000 - 1.400.000 slaughtered.
Also, the Luftwaffe was confronted by the airforce, which was also significantly weakened, but they managed for the most part to take down 3-4 aircraft for every lost, but that wasn't enough, as there was no early warning and they took off as the german aircraft was flying overhead.
There was a plan to go south to Greece, but general Nedić surrendered his units in Macedonia without fight (some say it was a betrayal) so there was no chance to repeat the retreat from WW1.
Watching this after Serbia got treat that its economy (you could also read country) will be destroyed if Serbia doesn't recognize Kosovo and impose sanctions on Russia is a special thing..
It's like having a university at your PC, great discussions and research Tik.
I may not agree with everything you say (this is not the case), but you sustain your arguments in a pristine way: it’s really astonishing, you don’t leave a mark unchecked and always rely on many sources, making it really difficult to disagree with your view. My sincerest praises Tik, its always a pleasure to watch your videos.
The German only have a stockpile of fuel for a four month campaign for their 153 divisions at the opening of Barbarossa. Once exhausted in October 41, their lightning advance slow down to a crawl. Had they begun their assault on USSR on May 15th, they would merely have been stalled in September instead of October.
Antony Beevor, in his book 'The Second World War', wrote that during the landing on Crete, 146 Ju-52s were destroyed and another 165 were severely damaged. These aircraft were later sorely missed by the Germans during the invasion of the Soviet Union.
Losses of the land forces were hardly something that the Germans could not make up for, but the loss of aircraft and crews was already a problem
Seems the Serbs were very important players on the world stage.
They lit the powderkeg that turned into WW1 and helped delay Barbarossa.
Srbi narod najstariji!!!!
This was a super interesting "but is that actually the case?" Lots of insights here I never considered previously.
Sometimes these stories feel akin to doing math problems, and I find myself regularly going back 5-10 seconds in order to keep all my "variables" straight!
Logistics... flow and stock, etc.
Yugoslavia, Greece, Africa. Mussolini was what we call a "delay fish".
Without the overt German invasion, Its much more likely that Yugoslavia would have descended into a civil war fueled by three sides, German, USSR and UK (Churchill). Basically what actually happened, but without Wehrmacht as "referee".
The bigger factor were the German divisions tied down in occupation of the Balkans and Greece that were absent from the Ost Front for the entire war, not just the first campaign season.
The German problem was they couldn't kill the Red Army and get around them fast enough, not that they didn't start fast enough.
New Sub here, i actually debated one of my National Security teachers in college about the political spectrum. She put Fascism on the far right and communism on the far left. I told her that that was wrong since Fascism and Communism are essentially function with a similar ideaologic base. Im glad i found your Vids and basically have a better way to articulate my arguements. It is crazy that People ignore that Hitler was National Socialist (Nazi) and label him a Fascist. We truly live in an age where people do not know basic definitions and the origins of words. Thanks again!
Right literally means "positive value on the Axis", whatever you put on axis. Do you like chocolate? Far right! Water? Hm, centrist. Capitalism? I would be "far right". Communism? I would be far left, because I don't like it.
It's sad how many professors don't understand the origin of the terms.
at 20:27 the photo has nothing to do with the royal Yugoslav army; it was probably taken in the 50s - 80s and is about the JNA
Great video, TIK. Beevor’s book on Crete left me with the impression that losses of Luftwaffe aircraft on Crete played a role in Barbarossa delay.
It did. 291 Junkers-52 were lost many with their pilots, they were never really fully replenished and this impacted Demjansk and Stalingrad airlift
@@GamingHoplite Wasn't just the airlifts, remember these were the real workhorses of the Luftwaffe, they'd be used to help move ground crews when relocating an airfield, spare parts, supplies, troops.
These would have been in daily use, ferrying stuff around, not sitting there waiting for a big mission.
@@richardcowling7381 between the battle of Crete, battle of Britain and the early stages of the North Africa campaign, the Luftwaffe took several body blows they never recovered from. They lost a lot of airframes, a lot of trained air crew and particularly for the fighter arm a lot of the "experten" (aces) that their entire fighter doctrine was based around. Factor in too that the afrika corp in two divisions contained the motor transport equivalent to something like 12 panzer divisions on the eastern front. While I've never considered Greece and the Balkan campaigns a major reason for Barbarossa's failure, it was yet more stretch on an already overstretched military machine. The Germans never had sufficient strategic depth and infrastructure to replace losses. Compare with the RAF who never kept a pilot in post once his front line tour of duty was completed. By god they were going to a training school as an instructor or to a staff position to help design new aircraft, and only after that were they going back to a squadron!
My grandfather was mobilized on April 6 and captured a few days later. He was sent to a POW camp in eastern Germany where he spent three and a half years until Soviets liberated the camp in late 1944. Still got the Red Cross postcards he sent to my grandmother in Serbia during his imprisonment. Sadly, I never got to meet him as he died few weeks after I was born.
Not going south with all his forces in August/September 1941 was the main reason Barbarossa failed.
Yugoslavia got caught up in a war that it didn't want because of their geography. They were sandwiched between Italy and Greece, while being in close proximity to the USSR. They just wanted to maintain their independence from voracious Italy, Germany and Russia. They were nevertheless ravaged by more hostile powers and even a treaty with Hungary could not save them.
Hey TIK, I know you have your bibliography on Google Docs, but what are the chances that you've make a reading list or an essential books video, where you give an overview on some of the best books on the various aspects of World War II (military history, Third Reich history, economics, the atrocities, ideology, biographies, and even a review of the more mainstream history books you critique, etc)?
It would be great to hear you discuss all of your favourite and most useful books and where you think their strengths and errors lie.
I appreciate your work!
No matter what, it's always a good Monday when TiK posts. Well done. Cheers from Tennessee
Interestingly enough Serbs where with allies, while Croats where with Germans in both wars....Yet they where awarded the territory and where never punished for atrocities they have committed. Also they where supported in the 1990s by the Germans.
What is the purpose of your comment? Croatia was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire and therefore on the side of Austria in WW1. After the WW1 it was part of Yugoslavia but the situation was complicated because of the ethnic tensions mainly as the result of the politics led by great-serbian politicians. Soon after the NDH was formed, many many Croats were disappointed by ustasha government and joined the partisan movement. Tito was a Croat, and by 1944 almost 40% of the partisan movement was made up of Croats. The partisans had the greatest support in Croatia and Bosnia, and almost all military activities took place in Croatia and Bosnia. On the other hand . the people of Serbia did not support the partisans which can be seen from the fact that the liberated territories in 1943 were exclusively in Croatia and Bosnia. The only free territory in Serbia was the Republic of Užice in 1941, which lasted two months and was destroyed by the Chetniks. Partisan movement in Serbia was almost non-existent... At the end of 1944. there were 40 thousand partisans in Serbia and at the begining of 1945. suddenly there were 260 thousand - mostly former Chetniks who changed side when they saw who's winning
@@juricahizak9014The partisan movement was dominantly Serb in terms of ethnic structure. Those supporters in Bosnia you mention are, in fact, Serbs (reference en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Partisans). I quote : “Over the entirety of the war according to the records of recipients of Partisan pensions from 1977, the ethnic composition of the Partisans was 53.0% Serb, 18.6% Croat, 9.2% Slovene, 5.5% Montenegrin, 3.5% Bosnian Muslim, and 2.7% Macedonian.” It is highly likely that an increase in the Croat presence during 1943/4 is a consequence of ustasha seeing that the tides of war were changing and switching uniforms.
This is you at the top of your game. Terrific, well-researched analysis conclusions.
As a Serb, I always considered the idea of invasion of Yugoslavia causing critical delays to Barbarossa to just be nationalistic cope, but I'll admit when I came to the video I hoped you will say otherwise. Around a million Yugoslavs died in WW2 (largely Serbs), and their deaths essentially meant nothing.
If there were not Serbs back at 1941, russia wouldnt exist today, and then russkies say "we always helped Serbs through history" and they always forget to say how many times we helped them, and literally saved them because at 1941. they werent ready for blitz crieg, so because of us they got 1 year to prepare.
@@milans.637 Ye Russia never helped Serbia. What an ignorant beta cuck you are
@@milans.637 You Serbs are so fast to take all the credit, as if all of the Yugoslav Partisans were Serbs. A large number were also Bosnian, some even Croatian, yet you dont see Serbs talking about this.
@@AA-bz1pr Oh yes, you are right, 90% od so called "yugoslav" partisans were Serbs, but yes i was to fast by taking this credid as a Serb, also let me tell you there were also many other para-military forces structured of 100% Serbs and tyey werent in small number who fought even better and gave nazis even bigger headache then partisans. But you still come out with claim that this is also coratian(who were 99% in ustacha batalion) and bosniaks who were 60, 70% in handzar division both are nazi germany pro military forces, and we know what they did, one of the biggest crimes in history. Also stop liking your comment so people think you have supprt of your nonsense comment.
@@AA-bz1pr The coup was in Belgrade, partisans came later during the war
I don't think anything would have been better if they invaded Russia sooner. They still would have been stopped at Moscow thanks to the distance and logistic issues. They still would not have reached the oil fields. Stalin also refused to believe they planned to attack, meaning they had the advantage of surprise regardless of whether it happened 4 weeks sooner or later.
For sake of accuracy, illustration at 20:28 shows JNA soldiers. JKV had French helmets and completely different insignia.
Sad kada vise Jugoslavije nema mogu da nam pisu Istoriju kakvu hoce. Ali u stvarnosti mogu samo da ga pljugaju :)))
Thanks TIK, another good & thought provoking video! 🙏🙏
It's really funny how the Serbs are deemed negative in new age, while historically they were always the biggest allies and biggest fighters the west ever had
Thanks TIK. Very interesting topic. I would raise the same question about Greece. Did Greece campaign weary Welrmacht?
Good question, I would say no because while Italy did get pummeled by the Greeks, they also suffered a nasty bloody nose. By the time Germany along with the Bulgarians attacked you had British forces already in Greece and they were defeated rather quickly also with the help of the Italian navy. Agreed Italian forces failed in their attack on Greece they seriously softened up their forces. Crete is another story.
This, while the italians had (so far) failed in their invasion. They had set up a good defense of their own territory resulting in failed after failed Greek offensives (after the initial greek victories that resulted in the fighting being in Albania in the 1st place).
The sources that I have read (backed up by my Greek great grandfather who fought in these battles) was that Greek moral had plummeted due to unsuccessful attacks and low ammunition (the Greeks were useing mostly Czech and French weapons, both unavailable due to German successes). 1 source said they had less than a months supply of ammuntion left and the british lacked the spare equipment to fully resupply them (which would have also taken time to retain the men on the new equipment).
Some officers even apparently asked greek high command to offer conditional surrender to the italians in the week before the german intervention, before they lost their position of advantage.
Ofcaurse there is no denieing that the Greeks who didn't desert fought admirably even after German invasion. But they lacked the equipment and the manpower to resist the italians much longer, let alone the large German on their flank.
You've actually missed the most important point of the invasion of Yugoslavia :)
Prior to the coup Hitler didn't really care much about Yugoslavia itself, the reason why Yugoslavia mattered so much was actually Greece. Occupying Greece was an important task to protect Romanian oil fields and control Mediterranean to conduct operations in North Africa. Germany planned to invade Greece through Bulgaria but there were two issues - Greece had constructed a series of fortifications on hills along the border with Bulgaria, and Bulgaria had terrible infrastructure. Yugoslavia, on the other hand, had a railway network from Hungary all the way to Greece (and also the border between Greece and Yugoslavia was quite long and not fortified). Ideally, Germany would transport troops from Hungary to Greece by railway, occupy Greece, and then transport them back by railway to regroup for Barbarossa. However, they judged that even if Yugoslavia didn't allow them to use its territory for offensive operations against Greece, it would still be beneficial to use the Yugoslav railway even just to transport the troops back when the occupation of Greece is over, instead of having to go back by Bulgarian roads (that way Yugoslavia technically wouldn't be assisting Germans in attacking its friendly neighbor Greece, and by that time it would be literally surrounded by the Axis on all sides and wouldn't have much choice but to let them use its railway). This is why Yugoslavia was so important to Germany, and why Hitler was putting so much pressure on Prince Paul to get him to sign the pact.
So when the coup occurred in Yugoslavia, this was actually a blessing in disguise for Germany. Yugoslavia fell in less than two weeks which significantly sped up the occupation of Greece, and they got to use the Yugoslav railway to transport the troops back to Hungary to prepare for Barbarossa. The invasion of Yugoslavia actually gave them more time to prepare for Barbarossa, rather than delaying it.
Ps, I really am looking forward to your future content in regards to British fascism and Oswald Moseley’s black shirts.
As a Greek I can agree with you whilst I steadfastly remain convinced that it was the Greeks who delayed Barbarossa and thus defeated the Reich and won the war 🙂
Greetings from Russia to all brave Greek people 🇷🇺☦️❤🇬🇷
You must give me a number of your drug dealer.
@@dejan-dex Партизани??? Мораш ми дати број твог дилера дроге. Поздрав од четничког унука.
@@user-gj8iq7bu1u your chetnik grandfather was already on it, hahahahaha
As always very interesting, I'm happy to see that your copy of Shirer is in the same condition as mine.
However you did not speak of logistics which, in my opinion, is the main reason for the failure of Barbarossa in 41.
I don't think there were enough losses in Yugoslavia to make a difference in spare parts and replacements afterwards.
The fact is that on 17/07 in Smolensk the logistics guys of the Wehrmacht already knew they would not take Moscow in 41.
Paulus made it clear before Barbarossa that supply would break down after Smolensk. German lack of focus on trucks and slow changing of the Russian train track grade made a quick takeover unlikely. Soviet Union was not France, the Russians weren't going to surrender even if Moscow fell.
Fun fact: The Austrian painter's first order after the capitulation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was to bring him a memorial plaque of Gavrilo Princip (something like a war trophy). There is even a picture of him with a memorial plaque
Nope, that was a gift for him for his 53rd birthday on April 20, 1942
The delay to invade the USSR is probably the absolute most debated subject of ww2 even to this day. The internet, video documentaries, and pop-culture media keep on perpetuate the narrative that the invasion was delayed exclusively due to the Balkan campaign, however almost every single historian writing on the matter argues that weather (river flooding, damp soil) and inadequate logistics (requisition of French trucks etc) meant that the delay was inevitable.
In (ex)Yugoslavia, we learn of the critical role we played in delaying Barbarossa as well as fact that our resistance occupied more German divisions then German divisions in Africa. Side question: Did invasion of the Yugoslavia actually accelerate fall of Greece because main trust was through lightly defended Macedonian border? By invading Yugoslavia, Germany accelerated already planned invasion of Greece and thus shorten German's commitment in the Balkans.
The moanstir gap played a role yes as it circumwent the metaxasline. Similarly the refusal of the Greek high command to shield from this by pulling the line from the metaxas line to the Aliakmon line sealed the fate of both Greek armies as well as of the British expedition corps. A cohesive line and combination of Greek and British troops would have delayed the Germans much more. It would also allow reinf to come from Epirus, where the bulk of Greek forces was engaged since Oct 1940
@@GamingHoplite but one reason is that the macedonians who were mobilized in the greek army just like their brothers in yugoslavia surrendered to the germans first of all in the region of pelagonia which allowed a quick penetration of the germans
Well the real question is, would attacking 5 weeks earlier have allowed the Germans to somehow take Leningrad, Stalingrad & Moskow? Because short of that, the war would have ended much the same way. With a significantly limited Soviet Union, you'd at least need to discuss whether the Western allies could have pushed into Europe.
I don’t think that the Nazis ran out of time in 1941, so much as they had simply worn themselves out. The Germans had been fighting ferociously for months, suffering tremendous casualties, and their nightmarish logistics caused them shortages of everything. The German army had exhausted its offensive power.
Even if the panzers had attacked and surrounded Moscow, could they have actually captured it? And kept it, so far beyond the ends of their supply lines?
@@gerardlabelle9626 Yeah, I don’t think so either, so the delay ultimately didn’t change the outcome that much. Barbarossa pretty much went as well as the Nazis could have ever hoped for, but they still lost. I’m sure it very much must have seamed very different at the time, but short of convincing major groups to peace out, I don’t think they stood a realistic chance, all HOI4 players trying to argue perfect strategies to do so for some reason to the contrary.
Never stop doing these kind of Videos thank you TIK
Macedonians have been almost completely neutral until quite late in the war due to the previous experiences.
We knew that who ever wins we're fkd
Barbarossa was delayed for 6 weeks because the Germans ivvaded GREECE and YUGOSLAVIA. THE military operations in Greece ended on early MAY 1941.
A video about Yugoslavia, I’m sure the comments will be more civil than usual.
Fools like to try and parallel modern conflicts to old ones
Based on the one I did a while ago, probably not 😂
LOL
@@TheImperatorKnight Since you accused Jovanovic to be antidemocrat, you failed in my eyes 😂
Hi Tik, I was wondering if you could make a video explaining what exactly is peronism. I've recently been very interested in Argentinan history and Peronism is something that always confused me. Is it fascism? Socialism? Strong man caudillo populism? Thank you for all that you do!
BTW, not one American in a hundred can say who one the Mexican Revolution, or say what the initials PRI stand for. (Oh, I know that in Mexico they "don't have REAL Socialism" . . . ) But I think your "Is this really the case" spotlight ought to be trained on Mexico and it's valiant but exploited citizens. They deserve recognition and Socialism should answer for the way they have suffered.
And then talk about Cuba . . .
DOUG out
Unfortunately I do not think anyone could explain what is peronism. I know it is some sort of mental disease but it is difficult to go beyond that.
Such a video would really underline Lewis' point that Bolshevism, Fascism, and National Socialism were just variants of Socialism. Peronism eventually splitting into "Right" and "Left" variants as I recall.
@@dougreid2351 Mexico: so far from God; so close to the USA. For both Ho Chi Minh and Castro, the USSR seems to have been second or third choice for sponsor.
That’s a reasonable enough argument to change my mind, although the biography I read on Marshall Tito claimed it held them up for 3 weeks.
Thank you.
Tik's voluminous and thorough work is a gift to historians everywhere. But is this really the case? Yes, yes it is!
Seriously, another brilliant and to the point work challenging the conventional narrative. A few things come to mind immediately.
As a complete amateur, a consumer of historical thought but not a producer, your work is more about simply opening my mind to alternatives. As such, the exact motives of various authors who clearly got things wrong is less important to me than it is to you. It's hard for me to cast aside Shirer, because like you it was my first read on WWII. But it's clearly very flawed, and I can't thank you enough for pointing out his flaws.
But what is the bias that makes his work flawed? Again, I have less reason to care than you do. But in this I think you pinned it down well - he praised Haider. The real genesis of all the flawed analysis in the West really seems to be Haider more than anything. He's certain the origin of the Madman nonsense that you so rightly mock.
It may be worth time for you to examine Haider's influence and that alone. Again, as a reader and not a writer on this topic I'm more interested in new perspectives and anything that can be called objective truth. But the poison of Haider runs very, very deep in conventional understanding of WWII.
Yeah, I mean, I don't think we can dismiss Shirer completely, and I don't want to blame him entirely for his interpretation. It's difficult when you're in the early days of a history project and trying to piece things together, especially when a lot of the documents are under lock and key, plus many debates that bring about truths we didn't know about hadn't happened yet. However, people should be reading more modern works which have an updated narrative. Even they're not going to be perfect, but at least not as out of date as Shirer is.
Hi Tik. Good work again, I appreciate your video on Nazi Anti-Semitic propaganda. That was a hard topic to cover, but needed.
Lol explain to me how the nazis were wrong? Were the leaders of the Spartacus revolution not majority jews and was Marxism not the Jew Karl Marx's work? Are Jews not overrepresented in the banking system and do Jews not see themselves as a chosen people of God and non-Jews logically following being of less import than them? Are Jews not overrepresented in media and hence have disproportionate hold over public opinion?
Love the vids mate! Well presented and full of information. Both verbally and visually.
I think you're a very smart man and I value your opinions, thank you!
Yeah. The attack on Yugoslavia really didn't have much initial impact on Barbarosa. Maybe the biggest one would be fuel expenditure and extra attrition of luftwaffe units (spare parts, bombs, a few dozen planes with crews)
But what I think is important to explore is what was the impact of attack on Yugoslavia in the medium to long run for the axis war effort. Also how would a neutral or axis pact Yugoslavia influence the war?
How much more (or perhaps less?) resources, production capacity, arms and manpower could Yugoslavia provide to the axis?
How much did the partisan movement ''devalue'' yugoslav teritory for the axis?
Consider that Yugoslav partisans ended the war with a whole army group (in actual strenght not just organisationally) after years of attritional warfare against both german, italian, hungarian, rumanian, bolgarian and local colaborators. And now consider what effect (economical or in terms of soldiers) that freed manpower could have.
Just my continuation on ''Is that really the case?''
Counter point, would a British/allied landing and attack through an unoccupied balkans have held up even more men and resources?
Probably. As much as a nuisance the yugo partisans were, they were still poorly equipped and survived due to low priority and tough terrain. Well equipped allied troops would have been an even greater drain on resources.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 This brings up the question of whether the British were capable of sending a significant force to Greece and then mount an attack through the Balkans. Would they have risked possibly losing Egypt to Rommel?
Would the British have been able to establish airbases in Greece and use them to bomb Romanian oil fields? The Germans probably thought that it was a possibility but did the British have the logistics for that or other serious operations in the Balkans?
It didn't have much impact on Barbarosa but it did drag Germany down because it was impossible to maintain order in the region and was a complete nightmare.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 bad counter point really. Partisans were there since 1941 British never. So what would be if well...... it is just an if.
Fact is They manage to keep busy 20 German devisions in buisnis in Yugoslavia even if poorly equiped.
And fact is none of other countries in Europe did not liberate it's territory with it's own troops the way partisans did it in Yugoslavia, with a little help at the end of the war on N Yugoslavia in lete 1944 by red Army.
For that nations of Yugoslavia lost ast. 1,7 mil people in WW2.
TIK, thanks for interesting vlogs. One question: do you have reference for Serbians being anti-seminitic before 1941? Or 1941-1945? Thanks
Before 1941? Milan Stojadinovic
but you can go as far back to Mihailo III Obrenovic
@@MilIMeta how in specific?
@@MilIMeta en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kragujevac_massacre like this you kean?
One factor that should be mentioned is that the Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939 moved the western border of the ussr 250 miles or so to the west. When Stalin grabbed Poland east of the Curzon Line, and also the Baltic states and Moldavia. This may have delayed the Nazi conquest of Russia long enough to halt it when winter set in.
balkan always played a huge role in everything it basically changed the course of history almost all the time
Yugoslavia, I Go Slavia, We all Go Slavia
Guderian intimated that Barbarossa was unviable in May because of the abnormally wet weather and swollen rivers, so even if Yugoslavia was the proximate cause of the delay, it would likely not have been the but-for cause (add on your mention of Finland and others' need for more time to prepare).
I don't know where you're getting Guderian's opinion from, but it's not true. Hitler himself personally blamed the failure of Barbarossa on Mussolini's disasters in Africa and Greece which not only caused the unnecessarily delay of the Barbarossa operation, but also caused a huge diverting of forces from the new front in the East to the occupation of Greece/Yugoslavia, as well the prevention of British attacks on the territory.
It's true that the unusually long "rasputitsa" was a factor in the delay, but not the main one and certainly not really the only one.
@@blodlord My point was that, even had there been no delay from Yugoslavia, there would have been at least some delay of weeks due to floods/wet weather. Also, the video is about the delay of Barbarossa, not what caused its failure.
@@josww2 This is kinda debatable since we have to take into account all the factors that led to the delay and the pros and cons of it. I would reckon that the operation definitely would have been a go if Germany wasn't occupied in waging war on other fronts which had far more significance in the delay than any other thing.
On the second part, yes, you're right. I went a little off-topic.
iirc, Friend Halder said the war with the Soviet Union would need to be won within 500km of the border by trapping all the armies. I feel its similar to "10 days to take Stalingrad" line that Halder spoke. What's a few weeks when the war should have been won on the border before the Autumn? Like in France.
Could the same conclusion drawn in this video also be said about Greece? I often hear that the Wehrmacht invading Greece significantly delayed Barbarossa. But with it being wrapped up on the 30th of April I think that maybe the impact wasn’t as big as people say considering Barbarossa couldn’t have happened until mid June anyway as a result of the weather. Germany probably had to mobilise more men and use more resources than originally expected due to the Greek and Commonwealth resistance but did this have a quantifiable effect on the success of Barbarossa? I tend to think not.
The entire Mediterranean theatre was a major distraction and drain on resources that Hitler wanted to focus on Barbarossa. The occupation of Southern Europe and the N. African campaign didn't just soak up hundreds of thousands of men, but took up (and lost) a lot of their logistical capacity, that was already not Germany's strong point.
It's all basically the same thing and is part of two broader propaganda angles:
1) Germany and the German military were great, it was the few Nazis that caused every problem and failure. The "Madman Hitler" and "Clean Wehrmacht" were very much embraced in the West when West Germany rearmed and integrated with NATO. Both because Adenauer demanded it as a condition of rearmament as well as the West having to integrate their forces with the Germans they were recently trying to kill.
2) Saying how great Greece was, as they were an important ally in a strategic location now and to create perceived value in Churchill diverting forces to Greece rather than pursuing the North African campaign.
@@88porpoise great response! Agree with the why it was done. Many of the comments talk about Keegans book where Barbarossa was mostly a weather affair and at best could have been launched 1 week earlier. it is great watching Tik contextualise why people are making the claims in memoirs
Keegans book talks about the air losses over Greece, which (while not delayed) may have blunted the blow in Barbarossa. There may also be an argument about the fuel rationing situation. Do you have any thoughts on this?
@@tomtech1537 I don't know and I absolutely won't say it didn't have any impact at all, but it certainly wasn't altering the outcome of the war.
And to be clear, this is not denigrating the Greeks who resisted the Fascists. They did more than anyone could have reasonably expected.
That's an interesting "what if" scenario. What if Barbarossa had started a month early, with rain and muddy roads? What if the whole attack would end up bogged down in mud up to the knees and rivers swollen with spring rain, stopping blitzkrieg in June and in Ukraine\Bieloruss instead of in December and the gates of Moscow?
Perhaps the Germans could have been fought to a standstill peace rather than complete unconditional surrender and scorched earth.
That is a great point.
Germans had respect for Serbian military (Serbian, not Yugoslavian) given their experience in WWI and wanted to prevent Salonica front in WW2, therefore commitment of significant military force. Again, Croats, Slovenes and Bosnian Muslims all collaborated with Nazis en masse while Serbian soldiers fought and delayed Barbarossa circa five weeks, therefore giving Soviets time to mobilize and fight in more advantageous climate. Serbs were on the allied side against Germany in two world wars but were rewarded by bombing and sanctions while Nazi Allie’s in Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia (Muslims and Croats) were rewarded
Operation Marita, the attack on Greece did not delay anything ! That operation was planned long before the decision to attack the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. German troops in Bulgaria were ready to attack and Operation Barbarossa was supposed to take place on May 15. along with Operation Marita.
But then Hitler made the decision to attack the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, to hire additional forces and Barbarossa was postponed for 4 weeks later for 5 weeks!
So Marita didn't delay anything !
It definitely was a factor but Yugoslavia only lasted 17 days. The partisans throughout the years were the main factor for that nation. I’d probably lean more towards Italy’s ambitions and Greeces heroic defense as the main culprit in the delay for Barb. Nice video
Partisans were no factor at all as an opposition to Germans . They killed our elite, church, monarchy at the end of war when all was done and then made bunch of movies how they were fighting Germans.
Last time I was this early, Tito was still alive and Yugoslavia was still held together by his personality.
I read somewhere that the roads in Russia were still a muddy morass until mid-June.
In one Pavelić's visit to Hitler, Hitler (or one of his close associates) stated that he expected Serbs would put a much tougher fight like they did in WWI.
I have found this information in one of Bogdan Krizman's books. He is a Yugoslav historian who had a series of books dealing with the politics of the Independent State of Croatia. Very informative stuff which is sadly not translated.
We Yugos can destroy every good plan since ever🎉
Where did you get the information that Serbs were antisemitic? That is not true, you can ask the Jews. PS We stood against nazis contrary to our own interests, 1.5 million of Serbs died because of that, mostly at the hand by Croatian nazis who were killing them in the most sadistic ways.
An excellent narrative. The use of maps with narration tells the history like no amount of text can do on its own. In addition to providing the Germans with more practical experience for the upcoming Barbarossa campaign, the Italian troops of the 9th "Pasubio" and 52nd "Torino" Semi-Motorized Divisions also benefited from experience gained in the Yugoslav Campaign. These two divisions would enter operations in the USSR as part of the Italian Expeditionary Corps in Russia (along with the 3rd Celere Division and the 63rd Blackshirt Legion "Tagliamento"), in summer 1941.
Interesting thing about bombing of Serbia is that the first targets where monasteries and national libraries.
It was a culturicide.
Not true. I'm also a Serb, but this is factually not true. "Napalm bombs" were actually more like torches and Milutin Milankovic describes in his autobiography that his wife got her stockings burned after running over one of them. You can see that it was so devastating that you could run/ jump over it and not get burned.
Our barracks were placed around the Sava River and the wind took them within the specs. Library was a true coincidence.
Regarding the monasteries, which one was bombed?!
Thanks TIK, brilliantly explained as usual. Now my opinion. Years ago I would have been inclined to believe that the Yugoslav affair had a devastating impact on Barbarossa. I later learned that nature, as always, governs our actions: even if they wanted to, the Nazis could not have launched it sooner due to the heavy rains in May and June. Therefore, the human decision, right or wrong, was irrelevant,
Yeah but oil was wasted, a ship with Panzer III was sunk and best of all 20 divisions were stationed in Yugoslavia.
Army groop South had had 30 divisions instead of 50 because of this invasion. That is 300 000 men not fighting in Stalingrad and in Crimea.
Yea you are right it had some impact but not that much how is potrayed... Question: Do you know how many german divisions had to stay in Yugoslavia/Serbia ( german ocupation teritory) and did not particapate in Barbarrosa? I think that is the most impact yugoslavia had on ww2 and fall of Germany... also cant forget gerilla war that raged for the rest of the war tieing down german,hungarian,italian,croat and bulgarian(who did not particapte in Barbarrosa) units in ocupied teritories... Do you have idea how many were left there?
Another banger! Thanks Tik! As always
Too much rain. The earliest they could move on Russia was 15 Jun due to the mud and the Germans could not be sure of that...
Hey Tik, consider the following topic: could Prince Paul's gamble succeed? The guy (a.k.a. the biggest Anglophile Yugoslavia ever had) was stalling the Reich for many years. In 1941 he was cornered and the country had to sign the Tripartite Pact. But the conditions were generous - notably the promise that there will be no involvement of Yugoslav forces into wars against Greece or USSR. Was this realistic? Would Hitler have allowed this new ally to continue doing as it pleased? o.^
I think Prince Paul may have succedded in keeping Yugoslavia out of war until November 1942.Then Operation Torch happens.Suddenly Allies are landing in Mediterranean and any potential weak spot in Fortress Europa is not tolerable. Just like Hitler occupied Wichy France,he would have occupied Yugoslavia. However,dynamics of Yugoslavian internal conflict might have been drastically different in this scenario.
@@goranmrdakovic1298 Good observation!
Given that Bulgaria upon joining didn't have to invade the USSR and was only used as a staging ground by the germans for the invasions into Greece and Yugoslavia, it's very possible Hitler would've allowed them to do so as well. Also Bulgaria still declared a "symbolic" war on the USA and UK, which turned not so symbolic when they started bombing Sofia. So probably Yugoslavia would've gotten german help if it was invaded by sea.
Fun fact. Hitler actually visited Yugoslavia (Slovenia) came to the town of Maribor. His word were: "Make me this country german again". 80 years are a life time but stil you can feel the pain and suffering. In Slovenia it was also in some parts forced mobilisation... you can go in a random cementary in Slovenia and find a lot of graves written "Died on the Eastern front" or "Missing in Russia" and bellieve me those people had nothing to do with Nazis.
Those people are known nazis, and were psyhopats, they died like wild animals die, and they deserve it. Slovenia was proNAZI from that day till today, and they are stil proNAZI and psyhopath nation.
Even if Barbarossa had started, say, two weeks earlier than it did, it's no guarantee the Germans would have won a battle for Moscow.
Unquestionably Barbarossa was delayed by the Yugoslavian and Balkan diversions but was it material in the overall scheme of things.
The Axis forces grossly underestimated the resilience of the Soviet Army ( based on their humiliation in Finland). They also still relied heavily on horses for transportation of artillery and logistics, like the Kaiser's Army in WWI.
You could criticise the Axis were too hasty declaring war on the Soviet Union.
Delayed by Serbia* because in Croatia and Slovenia and also partly Bosnia germans were waited open-handed , also with flowers :)
And there were no Germans in Banat? Or are you trying to tell that Slovenians didn't resist?
Tito was Croat. Almost 40% of partisans were Croats, 10% Slovenians, and the rest were Croatian and Bosnian Serbs etc. All partisan acitivites took place in Croatia and Bosnia, partly in Montenegro. Take a look at the map of the liberated territories in 1943. - every piece of liberated land was in Croatia and Bosnia! Partisan movement in Serbia was non-existent due to the fact that chetniks in Serbia were too strong ( partisan pocket "Užička republika" was annihilated in 1941. by chetniks ). Please, give some respect to the hundreds and thousands of Croats killed in the battle of Sutjeska and other major battles in NOB.
TIK on Lord of the Rings:
The Sauron directed attack on Minas Tirith. The Orcs failed due to no rear security for a phantom army plus an heroic defense from Gondor. Madman dark overlord card played by his generals. But is this really true? Let's find out...
"People often misquote Palpatine as being a madman who simply bashed two armies together hoping to become leader, and that in his later years he became an incompetent mess losing to the under-equiped, undermanned, rebel alliance...
But does this story make any sense? Well that's what we'll be discussing in today's video..."
And he'd probably be right.
Sauron's only mistake was taking the bait at the Black Gate by wrongly believing that Aragorn had the Ring. If he didn't do this, he would have won.
@@EndOfSmallSanctuary97
I mean... he still won. Like... it took a literal push from God to win
@Tikhistory I would like to make a small correction - Bulgaria didn't join the Axis powers solely on the basis of Hitler's successful campaigns. They didn't really have a choice as the Wermacht was halted on the Romanian side of the Danube and Bulgaria was issued an ultimatum disguised as a choice ( because of WW1 cameraderie as well as Tsar Boris the 3rd having german heritage)- open the door or we're kicking it in.
The thumbnail image is just perfect.
Hello TIK
Regarding Thessaloniki, which was promised to Serbia/Yugoslavia, what the putschists in Belgrade did not know. When they overthrew the government, and only then found out about the planned concession of Thessaloniki, they turned the tables and re-accepted the Triple Pact, that is, they claimed that it had not even been terminated. But it was too late.
A little context. After the assassination of the Croatian leaders in the parliament in 1928, but not only because of this reason, the idea of Yugoslavia was dead for the Croats, who were looking for a way to become as independent as possible. In 1939, they received a concession, a regional self-government called Banovina Hrvatska.
This concession was not liked by the Greater Serbian forces. That concession and entry into the tripartite pact were the two things that, with British support, were the cause of the coup. One of the goals of the putschists (the Black Hand organization) was the abolition of Croatian autonomy. But if they knew about Thessaloniki, and Serbia has always been looking for access to the sea, it would have been different.
Chad fact: Yugoslav partisans were first guirella fighters in history to have their very own Airforce!
In other words, you are praising them for being amateurs. What's so great about that? How is it different from the Finnish air force?
The greatest mistake Hitler made was not his invasion of Yugoslavia and Greece as Shirer posited. Nor was it as some say, his invasion of the Soviet Union in June of 1941. No, Hitler's biggest blunder came in December of 1941 when instead of leaving Japan to fight the Americans by themselves, Hitler stupidly declared war on the USA. Had he not done this, it is quite probable that the US would have concentrated on the Pacific War while merely providing some limited lend lease help to the Soviets and British. Remember the US was still locked in strong neutrality over the war in Europe until Hitler declared war on the US.
"No, Hitler's biggest blunder came in December of 1941"
No. I disagree.
AH`s biggest mistake was invading Poland as this caused WW2.
Bruh this book is one step away from breaking apart as yugoslavia did
First initial thought before I watch the video. If this question was asked of me 10 years ago, or even 5 years, I would’ve said yes. Now however I’m not so sure and may even be leaning towards no, and even if it did the delay would’ve been maybe a few days or weeks since some small fraction of supplies got diverted. There almost certainly would’ve been a preference for troops trained and equipped for mountain fighting, a specialization less suited for Barbarossa anyway. Maybe it made a small dent in their fuel stores, but probably not enough to make any significant difference. Could be wrong and I look forward to seeing your take on the evidence.
The tradeoff on fuel use v. protecting Ploesti fields tilted to the latter.
Also the Nazis were welcomed in Croatia as liberators from serbs. They didnt try to stop the Nazis they helped the Nazis. I think it even sped up the operation because of the cooperation between ustase and nazis
We don't know what strategic fuel reserves Yugoslavia had. Hitler only got as far as he did in Russia as he stole everyone's fuel supplies (this sort of worked up until fall 1942). By taking Yugoslavia, Hitler may have even made a net GAIN on fuel supplies, especially as the Axis troops weren't that numerous.
The problem is that the diversion of consumables (fuel, ammo, food) didn't stop when the invasion "ended". The Germans then had to occupy the country and fight a presentient insurgency for the rest of the war.
@@obsidianjane4413 Fair comment. Until someone can work out the benefits of occupation to the Axis, we'll never really know. I'd imagine most troops would have been Croatian & Italian.
It did also help unlock the Greek defence lines, cause Greece to fall, prop up Mussolini, & stop the Allies getting airbases nearer Polesti.
@TIK Anyway operationally it didn't delayed Wehrmacht much car Yougoslavie with whole respect for defenders was conquered quickly.... However later during war it blocked many divisions cause of strong partisans mouvements so it had later impact on Ostfront. That's said now I'm watching to hear your thoughts@TIK. Thx for so often interesting content
True. Then again the 12 German divisions that sat idle in Norway for most of the war could also have been used to much greater effect elsewhere. Spreading yourself thin over too much fronts is never a good thing.
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 They needed occupation forces to extract resources from the county. Norway isn't the smallest of countries.
If Barbarossa was 5 weeks late, it was certainly not because of Yugoslavia and Greece, the reason is bad weather and delays in logistics
the logistics commander of the Wehrmacht himself said that they had fuel and ammunition until Smolensk, and then they would have to stop for service, to fill up weapons and fuel
all this resulted in the mobile divisions being 200 km from Moscow in August, and the infantry almost 200 km behind the tanks
logistics on horseback could not keep up with the tanks and that is why Barbarossa failed
@@juanpaz5124 You don't need troops for that. You have the locals for that. Norway had more troops occupying it then the Netherlands, which had 4x as many people. They were to garrison the country against potential Allied invasion.
@@Ulakazakre True. But this was not a logical regime. This is one that diverted massive amounts of resources and logistics to murder people on an industrial scale when it's own armies were begging for supplies.