Hidden Costs of Long Playtimes in Modern Gaming | Asmongold Reacts
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- When did gaming become like this?
by @CircleToonsHD • The Hidden Costs of Lo...
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The best achievements are those that nudge you into playing the game in a fun different way you would perhaps not think of otherwise.
I just wanted to give an example of good achievements like these
In Starcraft2 each campaign mission has 3 challenges for each different difficulty except for the hardest one. Each challenge requires you to go at the mission in a different kind of way, or complete it in a "speedrunny" way that encourages planning instead of just running it through. Or encourages using units and strats you'd never use otherwise. They're varied and fun, which makes the whole experience enjoyable and engaging
What's cooler is that in most missions you can complete all 3 on one run even on the hardest difficulty, it's not just there to waste your time
Titanfall 1's original regeneration system was nearly perfect. Every generation required different feats with different weapons and the only way to get to regen 10 was to master every titan and every weapon.
True! This is why i always loved to do achievement runs in WoW Raids
Or those that just push you to discover all the secrets, like bloodborne, with all the secret bosses and weapons and “spells”
Elden Ring!!!
Risk of Rain 2 is one of those games that got achievements right. They're not mindless brain dead grinding tasks. They actually make you do unique tasks, that require lots of planning. They're difficult to achieve, and so when you eventually do achieve it, it feels friggin great. Not only that, your reward for getting the achievement is, more content. You'll unlock items, unlock alternate character skins, and abilities. All in all made me wanna 100% it. And I'm not even a completionist.
The hermit crab achievement...
There's a fine line and they nailed it. But some of them are pretty convoluted. When you get to the point where it's like "Get a 720 no scope mid air after falling at least 20ft from at least 300m away while landing in water to survive the fall damage while doing a handstand one one hand while connected via dial up internet and on the phone with your best friends mom"
Achievements have turned weird, in my opinion.
It originally felt like a neat way to show off that you found and accomplished something rare and neat in the game.
Like, discovered a hidden cave in an open world game, or triggered a special quest by having the right combination of items, characters or whatever...
But now they feel more like tracking progress indicators, or ways to get the completionists to play your game more.
Like.. the achievements for starting the game for the first time, beating a chapter or scripted boss in a linear story, etc.
Or the ones where you'd normally only do something 50 times in a 30 hour full game experience playthrough, but there's an achievement for doing that a 1000 times.
I basically have zero respect for these two ends of the achievements. One feels like being rewarded for nothing, the other feels like a carrot you are never meant to reach. Bleagh.
Incrementals tend to tie achievements with boosts and content unlocks. This forces the player to do actions they otherwise wouldn't do in order to progress the game. Incrementals are more or less designed to waste time so idc that much but I am wondering whether more mainstream games will start to do something similar.
The last game that I played and felt achievements were actually cool challenges to complete was Halo 3. Halo 3 is so old at this point lol.
The only games i care about achievments anymore are the paradox games
it has always been like that. I don't know what sort of past your brain is fantasizing now...There as always been games with good achievements and games with bad ones. Remember when they started to put online achievements in solo games ? Yeah, those are the ones i hate.
Speaking the truth man. I've noticed this as well, Those aren't achievements, that's just Milestones if anything. NOT Achievements
Asmon mentioning Ratchet and Clank, which is my favourite series since I was a kid was great.
For me nearly every entry has a good replay value because of speedrunning, great worlds, weapons, good stories which aren’t long or short but just good mid lenght and for me embrace your creativity. Games with soul still exist and I’m so excited about it.
might have to pull the ps2 out of the closet and play some ratchet and clank
The best thing for me was playing the game again as an Fps. Or in Size matters you could play the whole game with rotating weapons if you earned enough skill points
@@ext93Emulators! It's still a blast to this day.
@ext93 The new one about rifts and 2 dimensions is honestly really good. Rivet and Kit's characters didn't take anything away from Ratchet and Clank and that was such a refreshing thing to see
Those games are insanely replayable
one thing overlooked here is that older games (spot on in regards to adding coins to the arcade) Also had a "high score" system of points. This would also keep you engage for hours on end. People would play video games for hours to prove you where the top dog in terms of points.
I remember that Seinfeld episode where George bought the Frogger arcade cabinet because his #1 high score position was still on it. "George decide he wants to buy the Frogger game from his old hangout after he sees that he still has the high score. He has to figure out a way to get to his place without erasing the game's memory." 😄
@@Ancientreapers yeah he plays frogger with the machine itself lmao
@@PeterDanielBerg Such a classic scene 🤣
we still have point systems in most games we just dont get to see our "score"
When you think about it, video game Ladder leaderboards are literally just the "high score" system but monetized. The extent of which gaming has fallen never fails to sadden me.
It really depends on the game. The experience of 150+ hours in Elden Ring and Witcher 3 is vastly different compared to the same playtime in new Assassins creed games.
Some just have a crazy amount of content and depth. Others just are padded for time and made to be drawn out, iE Ubisoft micro transactions to speed up progression.
Oh so you never "dived" for treasure in Witcher 3 in that 150+ hours? The map full of icons? Pressing "E" to collect garbage in houses only to sell them for copper you dont need?.
@@Chronuz I’m clueless as to how you played that game so awfully
@@Chronuz I don’t buy the whole “customer is always right” mentality here, especially considering some of the things you specifically complained about. Some players genuinely don’t know how to play certain games, and they project that frustration onto the quality of the game. Same thing happened with Elden Ring; players who didn’t have the patience to understand the game and its mechanics ultimately had a bad time. The fact that you “hit like a wet noodle” the entire time speaks major volumes about how little you understood W3’s mechanics.
@@Chronuz The difference between W3 and ER is that ER’s focus is in fact on combat versatility while W3 is narrative, quests and characters. But just like ER, W3 is a hard game to understand for some players. If you as a souls player took the same mentality you approached ER with and applied it to Witcher, it’s likely you wouldn’t be complaining about half the things you have already. I won’t pretend like W3’s combat isn’t clunky, but most renowned RPG’s are not known for having particularly well-rounded combat. Games like Fallout 4 and Dragon’s Dogma for instance have great combat, but awful storytelling and quests. ER, despite having some great if confusing lore, isn’t a narrative masterpiece, and rather it is a backseat, esoteric approach to storytelling and nigh impossible to know without doing internet homework. Elden Ring’s combat balancing, whether in regards to PVP or bosses, is glaringly bad and easy to abuse. If you understood W3’s mechanics you’d also find it relatively easy to abuse and sidestep any tedium. Upgraded Quen, dodge spam along with decoctions like echidna or blizzard can turn most battles into a breeze. Even using whirl with the right adrenaline boosting perks and stamina potions is a blast in combat. If you knew what potions to pop and general adrenaline/stamina management “long cooldowns” ultimately become a non issue. Knowing boss and enemy weaknesses are an important part of W3’s combat just like ER (not always in the form of an “oil”, but also certain attacks and sign combinations.) W3 has great mechanics, but only if you understand their depth and applications, same thing with people who hate on Elden Ring.
@@Cheddar_Wizard I've never seen such a well rounded explanation of why I enjoyed W3 combat so much despite at it's core not being very good. I hardly used many potions or oils on my first playthrough but really enjoyed getting invested in them on my 2nd when I bumped the difficulty to max. RPing as an actual Witcher and researching the different enemies from the bestiary and spending time concocting all my essentials was a lot of fun for me, especially when they make an very noticeable difference in your dmg output. The other guy is completely out of his mind for thinking the game forces you to play a certain way and that you're a wet noodle. The game on anything other than the max difficulty is honestly quite easy, you can absolutely ignore a majority of the mechanics and still have no problems with the enemies. With higher difficulty it doesn't "force you to play a certain way", all your play styles are still viable; it only STRONGLY encourages you to interact with all the games systems. You're a god damn mutant monster slayer who not only became a mutant from potions, but are known for their crazy toxicity resistance and use of wild potions. On top of that you're expert hunter/trackers and most of the prologue with Vesemir is spent preparing things for your fight with the Griffon. Complaining about damage output while not using the systems the game holds your hand through and claiming it forces you to play a certain way is just hilarious.
I was discussing this with my sister a few days ago - not all games need to be or should be massive openworlds. Especially when the story is linear and you can't do anything but run through an area to get to the next beat of the story.
I prefer the game design of Dragon Age Origins over Dragon Age Inquisition any day because it doesn't waste my time with large empty environments.
The best part of DA:I was the descent dlc. Which was linear.
Its like linear games have a bad rep or something.
Id much prefer more studios embracing linear gaming experience. Cause really, people actually like those if you look closely. They are more digestible, dont run into the issue of "empty open world". Its much easier to fill 30-60 hours with quality content than 150+ hours and it shows in modern gaming.
@@TheSorrowfulAngel oh I agree, I don't mind linear gaming at all, would be nice if game dev and companies realize there's nothing wrong with games that aren't open worlds.
@@Ni-boo Yeah. I also believe that shorter games are better for revenue in the long-term. People don't mind paying up for a good game that's "just" 30-60 hours if it actually has some quality. And with such a game being less costly to produce(and significantly less debugging work), as well as those games just taking up less time, people will play more different games period. That's good for the whole industry.
It's like every second game tries to create an mmo-like experience. I play two MMOs actively and that's already almost too much. Respecting the time of your playerbase is not just a good decision for quality, but also financially imo.
@Observer404 Makes sense. Then again, that's for fps games mainly, not other genres.
I always liked the metal gear solid series and how they added elements to increase play time. Whether that's stealth completions, hidden collectibles, VR missions which were fun, or even skateboarding! Figuring out how to get all the dog tags in MGS 2 was a fun little challenge that made some situations basically a puzzle especially if there are multiple patrolling enemies.
MGS 2 is one of the greatest games ever made!
the extended joy I got out of collecting all dogtags in MGS2 was insane. i will never forget
Games like GTA San Andreas had a good balance of many main Missions, some side missions, rpg like skilling features, minigames, and on top it some interesting collectables. So much quality content
Classic game, just hella outdated now
GTASA one of my favorite games ever. so many hours in that game
lol noob
even just fucking around in free roam is very fun.
yakuza with way too many side quest but i still had to do them all. they were fun and mostly rewarding in 0
This is essentially the issue of when you’re younger, you have more time than money. And when you’re older, you have more money than time. And while the audience of this video is clearly the older gamers. There are simply far more younger gamers out there. So it makes sense for developers to make their games for the players who want their money to go the farthest
I hate games that nerf your character that you built for over a year because they decided it was too easy. If it was too easy, it wouldn't have taken a year to be good. They could have just made new content that was harder, so you have to build a little at a time, but they want new players to be able to play the endgame, so they scale everyone down. I don't get what some of these developers are thinking. Maybe I'm just too old to be playing video games 😔
I have far more time for gaming now than when I was a kid. Back then, I had rules, chores, homework, social obligations, and a strict schedule. Now I'm free to do what I want for as long as I want.
But games back in the day were well made and had great replayability. So you didn’t mind beating the game because it might have a bunch of different endings (Cronotrigger) or it might have New Game +. Nowadays the game seems like it doesn’t want you to beat it at all.
Metroid Dread is a phenomenal example of quality replay value. The first go-through is 15 hours. Subsequent play-throughs reward skill with satisfying controls and quick finish-times. I can sit down in an afternoon now and enjoy beating Dread in 3 hours.
Facts. Best metroid for me due to the reasons mentioned
Tunic and Crosscode are two games I felt were amazing. Both of which challenge your mind to figure things out and they both have accessibility options if you choose. I would like more games like those two.
I liked Tunic and was mesmerised for hours until I got to a new area and got into a fight, realised that the combat sucks and dropped it instantly. Never gone from love it to hate it so quickly before.
God please erase my memories of Crosscode so i can play it again!
Crosscode is nuts
Both Doom 2016 and Eternal were short games, but they will live on in my memories forever.
Yup and i still go back to play eternal every once in a while when I'm bored because the gameplay is so good.
One of the best long term games I've ever played was Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. It can be a very long game however it's separated into acts. Each act has its own system. One act you're navigating the city on time management, and another act you have a city builder system. Also the game doesn't get stale in the sense that it paces out new game changing features through out the experience. Absolute masterpiece
Kingmaker is fun as well.
@@samhall5096 I actually haven't played kingmaker but I heard it was really good, and it was more "open world" esc
Kingmaker is similar
25:00 this is the reason why I started play every single online game casually, especially in online games like WoW where now I enjoy doing world content more than getting specific BiS gear just to be able to qualify for a chance of joining a M+ or raid group, there is no challenge in trying to obtain the power to do the end game content, just grinding and luck and timewasting, I had much time before but now, not that much
Honestly i play WoW pretty casually and M+ is the best content for me. You dont really need BiS gear for just doing fun runs and by the end of the season i even got the rating high enough for the mount. A friend group to have to run keys with is of course a damn good thing to have in that case
I used to do something similar with the first Portal. The first play through took me about 5 or 6 hours. Then afterwards my roommate and I kept finding new ways to get through the levels faster and get better at aiming on controllers and we eventually used it as a measurement of time for filling space between stuff we had to do.
Game developers forgot the fun is playing the game. Not completing it. They are focusing on creating tasks to complete instead of creating fun things to do. When you create a game you don't focus your attention on the end of the game. You focus it on the creation of it.
2 likes for the realest comment is crazy
Portal 2 is only 2-3 hours but is arguably one of the most memorable and enjoyable games ever made.
That's only the first Portal that is that short. Portal 2 was at least double that. Point still stands for Portal 1 though
the cake is a lie
@@KugelfangTV I think there was a cake in portal 2, it was just got smashed or something.
I think you meant Portal 1. Very short, but super fun, and I replay it about once a year or so. Portal 2 is also great. A little more story, and probably 2-3 times the length. Both classics.
osrs is one of those games but the new content that's introduced is new and the game devs care for the game unlike any other game ive played. no mts, player input and a community that caretakes for the game. truly one of my favorite games.
It's another reason why I've been playing games from non AAA developers its just made the way they wanted it to be been enjoying grimdawn so far and there's so many ways to play it without feeling like I've spent a ton of time on nothing so far
To be clear you aren't meant to go in every catacomb. They're hidden. You're supposed to stumble on a few of them and miss most of them. If you're using a map online and visiting every one... you're doing it wrong.
I'd love to see Asmon play Castlevania games, especially Symphony of the Night. Such a classic, genre defining masterpiece.
God its glorious indeed. And can be as long and short as you want
SoTN was so good. The only metroidvania comparable to it these days is probably Hollow Knight imo.
Nah fam. Castlevania 2: Simons Quest is peak
@@Opus9ine Bloodstained comes to mind
Asmongold: Repetitive mechanics are good if they are not required.
*promotes game where you fight a cartoon vampire by storing up hearts found inside candlesticks*
There's a key distinction that most people overlook when it comes to replay value. It can either be intrinsic or extrinsic:
- Intrinsic replay value: The game itself is fun to play and it just provides you with more options/modes to engage with it (Hades, Devil May Cry, Dark Souls, RPGs such as Dragon Age Origins or Fallout New Vegas, etc.) They key point here is that you are actively seeking out these things in order to play and engage with the game more because that it what is fundamentally enjoyable.
- Extrinsic replay value: The game has some predatory systems or mechanics that either forces you to keep engaging with them in order to progress/keep up/unlock some new feature that then makes the game more enjoyable, or makes you feel like you are missing out for not engaging with them (FOMO, Battlepasses, dailies, weeklies, etc.)
There's usually a reward tied to extrinsic replay value, the carrot on a stick approach, whereas intrinsic replay value is just an excuse to play the game more, the reward is getting to play the game more.
Side content doesn't have to be S tier, but the main product has to be worth your time.
my golden age of gaming was between the generations that included the N64/PS1 Gamecube/ps2 and xbox360/wii/ps3. That was around the transition of games being obtusely hard to be long, to being good and content dense, but before games got wildly too long.
3:39 The old arcade game motherboards all had game mode dip switches on them where the arcade owner can make the game as easy to as hard as possible. Which evolved into the easy - hard mode selections on PC/Console games.
Ocean Hunter was fun as hell at the arcade.
Me and my brother wasted a ton of coins to reach the ending.
WORTH IT. I would give a leg to see a remaster of it.
The Street Fighter 2 machine (don't remember which version) at my local arcade has the difficulty cranked all the way up, it's absurd.
i think ghotsrunner is a good example of a game that doesnt have any unnecessary filler. Its challenging and keeps you interested and involved the entire time, and you can finish a playthrough in less than 10 hours
Asmon, If a person plays a game over and over that isn’t hours of content, that is simple replayability.
Exactly.
I've replayed the original Resident Evil trilogy at least 8 or 9 times apiece but that doesn't mean each playthrough was longer than 3ish hours.
One of the best Single Player games that ive played recently was Guardians of the Galaxy that game was straight to the point no bs just you in the Universe doing Guardians shenaningans , the only downside was that you could only play with Star Lord , other than that awesome game
I was exactly thinking about that game as well. It was just the right amount of time. I finished it in something over 17 hours and I couldn't stop playing it. Yeah I finished it in two days, but I was glued to my chair and was enjoying myself not even thinking about time. And at the end I could happily say that it was a great game and it was worth every € spent on it. The last time I said that was probably ME and DA trilogies. Not the Inquisition that tbh, since it was littered with pointless side quests (story was good tho), but other games were pure gold and I played through all of them multiple times.
The most recent example I have in mind is RE4 Remake. I enjoyed the game so much that I actually went after the platinum trophy, and finished it multiple times doing different stuff each time. I got over 100+ hours after a month.
Playing on console, I could tell the game was not broken or anything, just an amazing experience.
Things being unlocked through a new run rather than new game plus is repetitive.
@@nujevad28 Are you referring to RE? Well, you can play every difficulty through a new game plus. The times that you don't play a new game plus is for S+s, which is merely an achievement, they give you no new content (save for a few times). Plus, I found it fun to replay, so it didn't feel repetitive, it felt great.
@@nujevad28 new game + or infinite ammo weapons ruin all fun from every RE game.
For me 40-80 hours is a really good range. It took me 82 hours to get every achievement in Hogwarts and that felt like the perfect length.
I'd say an hour a dollar is reasonable. I've bought twenty dollar games that were shorter and didn't feel ripped off.
@@TacTicMint too cheap tbh. I gladly spend 40-50 dollars on a game like last of us or uncharted 3 which you can play in 12 hours. I'd rather be blown away by extreme good storytelling instead of mindless grind in that hours.
@@ArseneGray I think Valheim, Limbo and the original Darkest Dungeon were around $20. Some of those cheaper indie games give you enough content for your money. I agree with you on the grind and those indie ones don't tend to have much.
82 hours in hogwarts for every achievement is pretty quick
@@TacTicMint roguelikes like darkest dungeon always have replayability thats how rogues are designed cant really compare those to games like limbo. or story games,
RPGs and Rogues are just designed for replayability from either using different builds or from going a different route
As was mentioned already, I think it is really important what type of game.
On his list of games that respect your time he has Firewatch, which is basically cinematic storytelling in game form (aka walking simulator for those that like to make fun of them) which I think would be alsmost impossible to turn into an extremely long game, while on the other hand a game like V-Rising, a multiplayer competitive survival game has the whole time gating as a balancing thing because it has building and tech trees in it, to try to prevent technological superiority and make the compettive aspect a more even playing field.
I am not sure about V-Rising, but in most survival games it is possible to change the values though so he would basically be cockblocking his own fun by not changing the values.
ye, alot of gamers want the quantity, while maintaining the quality throughout, which is impossible depending on the game, you can only do climbing towers to reveal maps so many times before it get's boring
Elden ring is only bloated when you replay it. The first time everything is super cool and exciting
and you can skip almost all of that bloat if the dungeon/cave/mine doesn't have items you care about or if you're not fond of the boss.
The overwatch comment aged well.
Now it's aged even more well😂
6v6 my beloved…
I just insist on finishing a game before I move onto a new one… actually saves me money since I wont buy a bunch of games I wont play.
I spent over 100 hours playing Elden Ring when I was completing every dungeon in every region, beating every boss, before moving on to the next region. This lasted until I got near the end of Mt. Gelmir. By the time I got to the Mountaintops, I was so burned out that I made the decision to skip all the remaining content and just fight the bosses. I used UA-cam videos to find out how to run through Farum Azula and Haligtree without fighting anything.
Beating every side boss in ER felt like just another AAA game experience. They repeated so many bosses so many times. I remember I was amazed when I first fought a dragon on swamp in the first area, it felt great. But then I fought reskin of that dragon like 7 times during the game and it felt awful. I did some catacombs but after I saw how much content is just recycled boring shit with random rewards you may not even want for your build.. I just focused on main locations and skiped fillers.
DS3 was peak Soulsgame for me and Sekiro straight up the best Fromsoft game. Elden Ring tried something new with open world only to deliver good stuff mostly where they were strong in previous games - massive areas full of small secrets (legacy dungeons). Fuck open world if it means running around bloated areas with constantly unbalanced challenge where you are constantly overleveled because you wanted to see everything the game has to offer. I prefer linear experience of souls games where every fight felt meaningful.
this was me with witcher 3 "excuse me witcher" NOPE! i'm done with y'all. i'm just gonna finish this
I recently saw Ys8 and 9 and the reviews said they were great action jrpgs. But I totally had to play it from the beginning. So I waited for a sale and got the first like 6 games for less than 20 bucks. The first few titles were just 8-15 hours and I had such a blast. And I actually finished them. Felt great.
The Ratchet & Clank series, as well as Jak & Daxter, Banjo & Kazooie, Spyro the Dragon, Pacman 3D World, Vexx, and Blinx the Mindsweeper are some of my absolute favorite game series of all time. Nothing will ever make me feel the same way as they did. Holy shit.
with elden ring we were ok with the filler dungeons because there was always an unique weapon or amour at the end and it was fun to get all of them. also in elden ring enemies don't scale with you so you can go back and blast through the dungeons you skipped pretty fast.
so 1. you weren't told beforehand what you get by finishing it.
2. if you skipped it and returned later it was easier because of no scaling
3. there was always something to get out of them even if it is just a snipped of lore on the item you found.
Imo then they aren't even filler. If they are a part of the gameplay loop or over arching lore, it's just part of the game, not filler.
Monster hunter is a good example. No one considers having to kill certain creatures to get a horn for this armor piece filler, even if you have to do it five times. Mainly because it's part of the gameplay loop. I say no one but I'm sure there are people who do call it filler, I've never felt that way. You could say grindy but I don't think grindy = filler.
It's when you have things that don't service the overall theme or story of the game shoved in for no reason that most people become aware of it.
@@devinkipp4344 it is the activities that just waste your time or are basically copy pasta with slightly different textures. even a main story objective can be a filler because it isn't reasonable to do a 30 minutes activity you did multiple times before just to get a few short story lines that often don't even tell new information.
for example the just cause series is suffering under that. you have so many enemy bases to slaugter though and you don't get anything except starting the same activity over again 50 meters to the side until you killed everything on the map. only then you are allowed to fight the end boss even if the last 20+ hours of gameplay where basically wasted into 1 or 2 perks you don't actually need for the end fight.
@Dovos agreed
Yet this still doesn’t excuse the bad game design which the “filler” has. They could’ve spent more time to flesh them out but they couldn’t. Elden ring is nowhere near the best game and it’s not even the best fromsoft game in terms of overall quality
@@Sephirothkingdom782 yes Elden Ring isn'T the best game. it is nowhere near "perfect". but even with it's inperfections it is still over 90% archiving what it promised and that is 80% more than what other new AAA games deliver nowadays at launch.
the amount of new "big" games that come out without major performance problems and at least one bug every minute of playtime is WAY too high.
it is sadly more common that a game with a sub 10 dev team with 100+ hours of play time is more stable and content rich than a game made by 300+ "devs" teams (probably 50+ of them are group managers that only do "meetings").
My favorite achievements are the ones you get for doing something funny or unusual in the game but you don’t know what they are until you get them. My favorite was getting hit with a mini nuke in Fallout 3 and as your body parts are flying in app directions in slow mo an achievement pops up in the corner.
With regards to Elden Ring's caves. they were designed to be interesting and different enough to be an interesting experience for most players before they felt like they were "done" exploring an area and moving on to one of the main dungeons. Also, I personally felt they were interesting enough to do separately and I combed through things. It makes it feel like a dense world and people can have different experiences with side content and still make a similar amount of progress before they go back to the main line content. The duplicates bothering the small subset of players that will comb through everything is a price they were willing to pay.
Only caveat would be that most people probably felt compelled to go through every cave anyway in 'fear' of missing something (like Patches or Alexander).
The criticism is still understandable, imo every area could have done with 2-3 less caves per area.
Says someone that would still go through each and everyone on a fresh playthrough.
I like elden ring but the duplicate trash mini bosses and caves that might have well been the same added nothing to the game. Their previous games were better.
to me, if a game has NEW GAME+ mode and has achievements about finishing the game using diferent play styles then its a game i can play for hundreds of hours.
Im glad some people mentioned doom 2016 and doom eternal. They arent hundreds of hours but the gameplay is so fun and rewarding I dont mind replaying them.
11:02 "If I Had More Time, I Would Have Written a Shorter Letter" - Blaise Pascal
Monster Hunter is a perfect example of using problem solving in a game to make it fun. There are so many ways to make hunting any monster easier. Built into the map the npc, stuff you can craft. But you can also slug your way through it like an idiot.
Death stranding didn’t feel too long to me, I spent time seeking out side missions because I liked building the infrastructure
I guess I'm the target audience for these types of "Infinite" games, but it's really a hit or miss. The grind has to be enjoyable in order to rack up meaningful hours. I've got like 500h in Starsector and 1000h in Battle Brothers, because those games are sanbxoses with well thought-out grind and have a difficulty scaling that rewards merit and keeps you engaged throughout the journey to the end game.
When you are done you can replay the game again over and over to try different strategies and the fun runs out after you've tried all there is in the game.
This ONLY WORKS if the game is designed around being a sandbox.
The AAA industry messes it up nearly every single time because they try to extend playtime for the sake of playtime w/o putting effort in making the journey interesting / challenging - they always fill it with redundant nonsense like time-wasting artificial timers, pointless quests and all kinds of other nonsense that artificially slows your progression.
Mount & Blade Warband is the greatest sandbox game I've ever touched next to Minecraft which I also used to love to play but kinda grown out of it. I'm not sure if I enjoy infinite time sinks anymore, but I may give Starsector a try
I really like starsector but my brain is simply to smooth to do anything more meaningful than running black market goods. And that's OK I wouldn't ask it to be simplified.
@@mastershake1071 Pro tip: hover your mouse over the Black Market tab on a colony's market and you will see the suspicion level on the colony after you put the BM goods in your inventory.
Ships with concealed cargo storage (like the Pirate-mod Mule or Buffalo) decrease your chances of having a patrol detect your smuggling and you can get away with more cargo.
The way you balance it is by buying some BM goods and then buying the same goods from the regular market. This way you decrease the relations drop.
People are okay with Elden Ring's bloat because it's just about all optional. You CAN beeline 2 rune bosses, hit Lyndell, kill the giant, then go right to the endgame... if you want.
I love your react videos because I always find out about great content creators from them
This is just a steam sale and humble bundle issue. "You want these 10 games for 5 dollars?"
You can be damn sure i played all of my games when i brought a xbox 360 game second hand from my local game store as a kid (yes the console is that old). Since i knew that my parents was not willing to buy me another one for a month or two.
There is that one ending in the stanley parable.
I have a bunch of games that i know i would enjoy, but are games that require me to sit down and learn them properly.
I didn't use to have this problem of not wanting to sit through these kind of games, until i started feeling that i'm wasting my life and i should be doing more with it. My conscious telling me that i shouldn't start a long gaming session. Even though i end up wasting the same amount of hours on other simpler games.
Agree, i only feel like booting up baldurs gate if I know I have multiple hours
5-20 hours is my preferred size. I like narrative experiences and dragging out a story for 50 hours is very rarely to the benefit of it.
11:00 Asmon goes on a rant about how being concise is better after circle said the exact same thing in such a concise way. 😂
I think the next big move in gaming should be remaking these long games into optimal games. Remove all the filler so people can enjoy only the good stuff the game has to offer.
"If i had more time i would have written a shorter letter", A famous quote by French philosopher and mathematician Blaise Pascal.
It's easier to just ramble on then to shorten everything down to its essence. It's much easier and faster for game devs to just toss in tons of time sinks and time wasters to increase game time, rather then actually spending time thinking about precise content.
I had made a really long post about similar things back in 2012 after Skyrim's release. About how games were beginning to focus on the mass appeal too hard and losing their identity. People called me an idiot and said it was a good thing that games were becoming homogenized. Look at where we are now.
Deus Ex was pretty consise and you could beat it in 30 hrs easily. Or you could spend 300 hours taking your time looking through every pixel and it was the best game ever. Like reading the newspapers and talking to all the bumbs was entirely optional and just supportive of the main story you could rush through the game and still really get into the plot without missing too much.
I've played it a few years ago, it was one of the best rpg I've played in my life. If you're not afraid of ugly games, you should try the thief serie, those games are also very good.
Elden ring caves are made to be experiences in small parts. You go through a few to buff your summon or get some new weapon/armor so you can go back to the main story stronger. There are multiple endings to Elden ring with quest lines for each. Each play through you go to a few different catacombs while doing the ending quest. Also co-op is fun running through them trying different weapons.
Ratchet and Clank was just so fun! The Realtime cutscenes and jokes are also top notch. Especially in Up your Arsenal. My favorite on the PS3 was A Crack in Time. Didn't really like the music in the Future series and beyond though. My favorite music was from the PS2 Ratchet and Clank series.
I wish more great games can be finished in 30-50hrs. 40 probably the sweet spot for me
Going up to the hundreds territory can be tedious. I loved Xeno 1 on switch to death but cannot bring myself to play the follow-up games because of the time commitment
I feel like 100+ hours outside the rpg realm, is super uncommon. Most open world fps games will sit around 25-40 hours depending on how much content you complete.
Part of why I liked Mechanicus so much. Doesn't take long to beat, game play was enjoyable, and I ended up replaying it a bunch of times on different difficulties for the achievements and to try out different builds.
3:00 Runescape and it's "content"
12 hours to beat a game, paid 60$? thats 5 dollars an hour, honestly, pretty good price to time ration considering it'll cost ya at LEAST 15-20 dollars to go to the movies, never mind the concessions stand or the time and gas cost to drive out there. (as minute as it may be still exists)
Then factor in most movies do not go over 1.5 hours.
Long as its a game with a great story, engaging core gameplay loop 10+ hours is more than fine if you ask me.
A real classic example of quality over quantity is any port of Metal Slug.
Removing the credits system you can pretty much brute-force your way to beat each game in a couple of hours.
Yet I have played Metal Slug 3 so many times I can finish it without using a continue.
The game is so damn good.
I used to love Metal Slug when I was a kid, playing it in the arcade. My stepdad used to take me there, and I'd use all the money I'd saved from chores and bdays to play for hours. I only found out later that he was meeting his dealers at the arcade and getting high while I played. Sometimes he'd pop up and "borrow" some money from me to "get quarters". As an example of how long we'd be there, I could sometimes beat whole games. Two that I can remember beating are The Simpsons and X-Men. I loved X-men. Anyway, I haven't played Metal Slug in almost thirty years. I wonder if they have it for PS4?
@@middlesiderrider the ps2 anthology collection is available on ps4
Some games he has listed that "don't waste your time" are long lol.
EDF is grindy af. I love the game but it's extremely grindy.
Deep Rock Galactic is also grindy.
Vampire Survivors takes a lot of time to unlock everything, just like with most rougelikes.
The Stanley Parable has a lot of backtracking to reach all endings.
Respect your time? Idk, it could be more bang for your time.
a good game can be played for a thousand hours
a bad game takes a thousand hours to "Get through"
There's a Mark Twain quote from the end of five pages of writing to a friend: "I apologize for writing such a long letter. I didn't have the time to write a short one."
I think it all boils to how fun the game is. Skyrim has hundreds of hours of somewhat similar content, and it is my favourite game of all time, while I forsed myself to finish God of War because of how bored I was of watching cutscenes. So its not about the length, its about how well desighned the game is. Gameplay is the king.
Oh Skyrim, i spent 800+ hours in vanilla, and still play with mods, a good game can have the 20 hours main history and the content for addicts, and it is fine
Good Taste The new Fake God of Wars are overrated shit for normies
Depends on what you're looking for, no? I'm someone who plays games for stories, so a game like God of War is an extremely enjoyable experience for me because it delivers on its story. Same reason why I enjoyed Horizon Zero Dawn for instance, while the gameplay is mediocre imo.
You ever just forget how to play the game so now you have to restart
"undertale looks like a game for vegans". that has got to be the best way of describing that game.
Where in the video is he saying that?
@@justmusiciaanthe part where he said it
@@justmusiciaan 15:56
Hard to make everyone happy, I just want these requirements fulfilled.
1. Tons of Mechanics. = Abilities not just Stats.
2. Tons of Customization. = Thousands of Models and Massive Character Creation.
3. Tons of Comedy. = Horses intentionally on roofs, boss chickens...Need I go on?
4. Tons of Villainy. = The ability to do heinous/savage things.
5. Tons of RPG. = My own choices effecting how the story goes.
Deathloop respects your time is the wildest thing i've heard... Well you could say that if you really enjoy a kick simulator with random snipers from across the map oneshoting you lol
The thing I hate the most about achievements or trophies are that some of them force you to do something you don't want to. I remeber there being an achievement on Fallout 3 where you had to reach a certain level with certain karma. I almost always go paragon in games with karma, but to get the achievement, I had to replay as a piece of S character or cheeze the game. And I am one of those who kinda obsess over 100% the games I play 😅
I feel like this is only a problem for people who buy a lot of games or play games as part of their job. If you only buy a new game every couple of months like a lot of people, then spending 40+ hours on one title isn't really a big deal (as long as you find the content fun).
Chess takes 15 minutes for a game. Yet it can be played over and over, for 1000's of hours.
That’s why me and 3 others are still playing StarCraft 2
Stray is a great game
Tetris can be played forever,ANY PVP can be done forever,all arguments fail when you understand that fun is subjective so no playtime is bad playtime if you had fun doing it.
man's whole personality is screaming and being loud as fuck
Another point to make, is that in some games if you take out a part of it, most people won't agree on the dividing line of the separation, so you 'll get people more angry instead of happy for a better game.
The "extra stuff" in Elden Ring is 100% optional. You can do the main path and finish Elden Ring in no time flat if you're good enough.
Death Stranding is built around the grind. That's kind of the point. If you don't like it that's cool, but I don't think it works without the grind of slowly building networks and gear.
16:17 This was me and Final Fantasy 14. A Realm Reborn's story actively lied to me and questioned my intelligence, so I dropped the game thirty levels in and refuse to ever touch it again.
Star Wars Kotor is a game for me that even after 10 years I always go back to. I still find something I haven’t done each time I play it
>undertale is a video game for Vegans. Absolutely on point with that quote
I look at it kind of like Pokemon games. The main storyline for most Pokemon games on average is like 20-30 hours. But you can easily get to 200+ because of side quest and competitive battling/breeding.
Both types have their place. A lot of gamers do have the collection problem where you can't play everything or you play certain titles too much because they feed that rush.
Showing Death Stranding as an example of pointless walking is a bad example when that game was about walking, traversal, and transporting. It was a literal walking/hiking simulator.
The funny example about how badly designed Anthem was is when players discovered that the most powerful guns in the game was the starting guns.
2:35 Insane in the Membrane
Most of the games in my library are half finished because most games are EXTREMELY okay.
Journey is one of the shortest games I've ever played that led me through an experience that has been almost unmatched in over a decade
The same thing can be said about anime. One of my favorite series of all time is Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagan. 24 episodes tight and concise. I’ve seen it 4-5 times.
Yeah I do agree that the industry has generally moved towards artificially extending games. A great 20-30 hour game from 10-20 years ago today is a mediocre 60-100 hr game because things that are fun to do in the game are locked behind lots of grind walls.
In a game where the only fun thing to do is pick your character's setup and fight, you used to get everything you need for fighting by just fighting shit and they either drop consumables/equipment or money to buy it. Now you need to farm enemies and run around the map picking shit up and fucking around in menus for many hours across a whole playthrough to craft those same consumables/equipment.
32:50 "The programmer programs in a problem..." I couldn't agree more with this. So many developers clutter their games up with unnecessary mechanics that make their games less fun to play, and presumably more expensive to make. When you play a game that's been made by a team of 2-5 people you really notice how every mechanic actually adds to the player's experience of the game.
"would you rather have 5 apples or 6 dropped bruised and mushy apples." More isn't better
"How many games are there that you'd love to play, but have no time to play?"
I could say the same about all my books. It's not an issue with the games, but with our corporate controlled society for giving us so little to enjoy life.
I mean, in case of Death Stranding, I think the long travel times and slow pace are the best part. But as soon as you do multiple side quests in a row, it starts to suck since you walk the same routes over and over and over again... Its a great game, but only do side quests once
My favourite part about death stranding is building infrastructure and coming up with strategies to make any possible route/supply trip as efficient as it can be.
The thing with Elden Ring is you're really not SUPPOSED to experience 100% of the content in a single playthrough. It's all just THERE to be discovered, like an actual world. Almost none of it is required for progression. I have a friend that's replaying it now and he's talking about finding all this stuff he missed the first time, and it's like dealing Astel and Mohg and I'm like damn dude those are literally two of the COOLEST parts of the game
Theres a perfect quote and I don't know who its from. "If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter."
I just have to say... As someone who can only play short games because I won't beat them otherwise, Code Vein was about the same length as a Dark Souls game, and the ending was amazing.
The only problem with code vein is that the white cathedral area is a run killer for a lot of people. Seen so many people get there, get lost and frustrated and drop the game.
@@nickelakon5369 Those people need to learn how to be true gamers then.