The one part that really gets me is talking to Brad’s grandpa. He’s responsible for showing Brad how to conduct his pain into power. He rescued Brad from Marty as best he could. He gave him a life where he could actually fight back against his tormentors. He’s directly responsible for raising the man who killed half of Olathe. But despite everything, he failed Brad as much as Marty did. He never showed Brad how to actually heal from his pain, only how to use it as a weapon to achieve “greatness”. He may have been as awful to Marty as Marty was to his kids, just to teach him pain. And he never rescued Lisa, even as she suffered as Brad did. When you look at it, you really see how Brad was failed by every parent figure in his life, just as he failed Buddy.
If we analize Martin, his attitude and insecurities may very well stem from him never reaching the "greatness" his father wanted from him. the reason he abuses both Brad and Lisa is, as he says, to make them stronger and make them grow fast so that the world will not hurt them. is a corrupted version of how Brad's grandad sees trauma and pain. However, Marty is also venting the powerlessness he felt during his childhood, using "techniques" that made him stronger against his father, which is drinking and being overall violent. Don't get me wrong, Marty is an evil monster, but Marty's dad created him, and considering how Brad's granpa wouldn't accept girls in his dojo, probably felt the same way of men acting "like girls". even his speech about making someone stronger and breaking them makes me think he would verbally abuse Martin in the same way Martin verbally abused Brad, only Martin took a step further fuelled by his insecurities towards his dad.
In all fairness I don't think he knew about all of the fucked up shit Marty did to Brad. He probably just saw Marty as a burnout alcoholic loser neglecting his kids. He very likely didn't know about all of the horrible horrible stuff that happened to Brad and Lisa. It's possible he didn't even know about Lisa. Or, if he did, he only saw Brad constantly covered in bruises and beat to a pulp, not HER.
I love how after that hours long fight against the most terrifying being ever and watching countless people get consumed by the horde of masses, Olan was like "Well that just happened, you want a drink Brad, it's on me"
Just another day of hunting. But seriously, it's the perfect punchline to the fight, both in an awesome way (Olan dealing the killing blow) and in a funny way (his complete nonchalance to the entire fucking horror show).
My Marty was finished off by Nern, who immediately commemorated the death of the beast responsible for the loss of his friends with "Rot in Hell, Dale Spooner"
Just a tip if you don’t want to lose party members. Use Nern and Carp. Nern can keep Marty pissed so Marty won’t be able to do that weird kill sequence and Carp can lower his attack, rendering his damage zero. Get any third character you like that does a lot of damage, I used Terry but there are probably better options.
Should’ve specified what moves they need to use. Nern should use Dirty Insult (not Insult as I think it does not ensure pissed) and Carp should use wrist slash.
@@coolguy2048 Funny you mentionned it cause that's the strategy I employed during the entire game. Worked wonders for most of the fight, but his psych-saps and consuming moves aren't regular moves as he uses them between turns, meaning he still gets to use them despite being pissed. Nice try though but yeah you're pretty much forced to lose party members here (which I'm not a big fan of).
@starmenslayer6949 Do those spider egg sacs do anything or should I just focus on Marty? Edit: I destroyed most of the spider egg sacs with only two remaining to the right of Marty, this seems to have stopped him from consuming my party members. I'm stuck in a slow slug fest now
@@PrakashaTheTree That'd be dope if it really works that way, I'll have to try it next attempt. Also if you didn't know the nutritious sacks they drop gives a fuckton of exp to a party member when used outside of battle. It's mainly used to level up other party members if you don't beat Marty in one go and your new gang is a little underleveled.
@starmenslayer6949 I thought that those nutrient sacs were for restoring HP but I'll take a closer look just to confirm, thanks for the tip. I swear, no joke, that he stopped consuming party members the second there were only two sacs left on the far right. It seems that the sacs themselves might affect what moves he can use at least in the first half of the battle. Edit: Marty randomly consumed one of my party members when he had less than 20k HP, it happened for no apparent reason but it also gave me the ability to finish the battle then and there. RIP Ajeet
I feel like there's something supernatural going on with Joy now. Between the crow-Bernard thing being named "Bernard" even though Brad absolutely does not know that's Bernard and the Marty manifestation morphing into something that looks completely alien when it performs that psyche attack leads me to believe that whatever Joy is doing to people is literally causing sentient manifestations of trauma to exist within their minds. Maybe Yado stumbled onto some kind of psychic power that he infused into the Joy drug, who knows. It makes sense to me at least, especially with how we literally see the manifestations of trauma in Buddy and Brad's minds act as if they're their own independent entity. I wouldn't say it's too far-fetched, considering this is a world where a single event can wipe out half, and only half, of the human population, and where you can summon tangible fireballs with your emotions. After some thought, I'm giving further credence to this. The additional content in the Joyful adds additional dialogue when Buzzo confesses that Brad was a good person to Buddy before he mutates. The additional dialogue has Buddy confronting Buzzo about Lisa. He's utterly stunned and shocked she even knows, and is confused how Buddy can "hear her". He even starts begging Lisa to talk to him again. I believe Buzzo, like Brad, had a sentient manifestation of trauma in his mind. For Brad, it was Marty.. for Bernard, it was Lisa. Buddy even mentions how Buzzo is masking his weakness by blaming Lisa, and as an observer, we can say she's right. Brad, despite being tormented by joy-influenced delusions of weaponized trauma inside his own head still fought to make good choices. He tried to be a good person. Bernard/Buzzo is a grim representation of what could have happened to Brad if he gave in to the trauma and let it control him. Buzzo even says Lisa dragged him in to the dark when he should have been her light. He isnt talking about Lisa, the girl, but about the living manifestation of trauma in his own head that takes Lisa's form. In the end, that's why Buddy says neither her or Brad could possibly blame him for what he did to Olathe. It was Yado and always was Yado using him because he wasn't strong enough to resist the Joy and its influences. Fittingly, Yado is killed unceremoniously. He deserved as much.
Buzzo is such a good foil to Brad. Both run with big groups of people, both hurt those people to get closer to their end goal, but the major difference is this. Brad mostly internalized his trauma and weaponizes it in the forms of fireball, while Buzzo lashed out at those who followed him. Brad tried to seek redemption by quitting Joy and raising Buddy while Buzzo kept doing it despite knowing the horrible monster it would turn himself into.
It's said that joy makes you feel nothing. Not good, or bad, just nothing. I suppose that with so much pain in the people who take such a drug, it has to go somewhere? It doesn't just, disappear, I guess
@@regis8714 The eclipse is an elignment of celestial bodies. Not really an effect of opioids and neither is it a psychoactive. From my interpretation Mutants play by similar rules to Apostles from Berserk. This eclipse confirms that for me.
@@SlugOnTub you only get 990 mags from selling all of them... You could make more by finish Russian roulette. Best to use these joys instead of selling them.
The Marty fight is meant to show that if you can’t even deal with such a long fight imagine the years of fighting Lisa and Brad had to deal with, all while being even more powerless than you
@@edward9487 you can get to the symbolism without fighting a superboss that takes hours to beat. i think fights like these toe the line between being grueling and just plain tedious, and honestly I can't really blame people for not being enthused by fighting a boss like this.
To be fair i believe it was highly implied by the Buzzo's crow head in a stake fight, it's name changes to Bernard. That, and that in the secret Joyful ending Buddy seems to know who Buzzo is and how he trained in the Armstrong Dojo.
If anyone is curious. Hitting the "Surrender" option makes the Marty Mound make fun of you for being a coward, then the game boots you back out to the campfire like nothing ever happened. I'm fine with that being how it ended for me. Neat sequence, but man, this fight doesn't need to go on as long as it does.
You can go back to sleep, and spawn back in Brads room in the dream, and then go back to Marty and continue fighting. (I don't know if his HP gets reset or not in doing so, however). You also wake up in the same way as surrendering, if you die at any point in the encounter.
@austinterry4182 that is one of the problems I have with this fight. It's implied this is all some sort of dream so how do you party members permanently die?
@ddddddinguuuuuu ok but you're fighting alongside them. That doesn't make very much sense ngl I feel like it's just like that to just to make it harder for no reason which is stupid af to me
I love how unapologetically hesitant and TEDIOUS some of these segments get. It’s kind of a weird thing to appreciate, I guess, but it’s an amazing representation of the extent of Brad’s trauma. It’s not easy to get over abuse. It’s not easy to just forget about the past and move on. It requires immense willpower just to confront that trauma, let alone to conquer it. Even when given proper tools to cope, like counseling or a circle of caring friends to fall back on, trauma is something that you have to deal with yourself. There’s never an easy way out, and this sequence reflects it perfectly.
the conversation with brad and lisa at the end is very interesting to me since it confirms that 1. lisa and brad grew up alongside each other somewhat 2. their mom was also present, at least in the early stages of their childhood its weird though because it kinda contridicts the beginning of the game, but maybe that's just brads memory being messed up due to joy or something
Technically it’s never said that their mom was still around, only that Brad and Lisa went through her things. She probably left some stuff behind when she left the family. But on that note, this content DOES confirm that Mrs. Armstrong indeed left Marty. In fact, it retcons the secret ending of The First, which says that she outright died. *EDIT:* Welp, nevermind, the new epilogue for The Joyful says Mrs. Armstrong was around well into Lisa’s childhood. Which contradicts the intro for The Painful and throws all of Marty’s characterization out the window. That’s just great. 🤦♂️
@Juniper_WippersnacheYou sound like youre under the age of 16, come back to this comment when you learn how to drive a car and think about how immature youre acting. Your other comments too...
@@TheSpaceCommunistDude….Austin confirmed AWHILE ago that their mom was present in their childhood and that her death is what caused Marty to really lose his shit
It's interesting to see that this superboss is a sort of dramatic parallel to Lisa's final fight. First, Brad fights the shadows of his party (similarly to the final "friends fight" sequence, albeit significantly more difficult). Then, he battles his enemy's minions (similarly to how Brad must decimate Rando's army before he can face Rando himself). Finally, he must face the last enemy in his way and desperately attempt to save a young girl (who, in both fights, is an ever-present reminder of an agonizing past). The difference? Here, Brad isn't alone fighting a hopeless battle that cannot be won. His friends stand beside him. The one person in the world who truly hurt him the most stands before him. Brad has everything to lose and everything to gain. In his own joy-fueled nightmare, Brad imagines his hopeless ordeal as the one thing he could only ever dream of: freedom from the subsuming guilt that tears at him with every step he takes towards his final battle. It's the very culmination of everything his journey stands for, but told in a valiant light: to sail across the sea, defeat his enemy in a faraway land, and free the girl he could not save earlier. It's an impossible fight, but with everyone he's ever trusted by his side, he just might win it. And he does. Of course, as Marty's head would be more than happy to remind him, it's not that easy. His friends are torn to shreds by his own hand; once again, in his efforts to find closure, Brad's joy addiction has resulted in him brutalizing those he cares about most. I can only wonder if this battle is what Brad truly sees as his mutating mind slowly succumbs to joy while fighting Rando.
that is definitely an interesting take, especially considering the bit before the boss where brad comes upon rando approaching buddy and it changes to marty watching lisa hang. definitely a lot of parallels.
....Ohhhhhh So that's what the blood in the campfire mean!! I would have never guessed that since I actually beat marty without anyone being absorbed, I just thougth that was brad punching the ever living SHIT out of himself and his allies till he calmed down. Instead that being blood from his comrades makes a lot more sense....
i managed to do the fight it was so hard for me but the conversation between brad and lisa was so worth it. i'm glad i decided to see it myself it's rly good seeing more of lisa as a person; she acted emotional and human and i'm sure as hell that what she asked brad to keep was the dead flower. you can also see a bit of her manipulative behavior when she says 'you owe me' so you see both sides of lisa which makes her even more human that little memory of lisa and brad with the makeup was too cute i cried, i loved seeing lisa laughing even if she was rly tired
I don't know about anyone else. But I loved this whole portion. I liked the atmosphere and the more information on Brad's backstory. Although the Marty fight was absolutely way too long.
@@sanfordt.killer5236 ThAt'S tHe PaIn BrAd AnD LIsA EnDuReD bUt In YeArS Jokes aside that's true, the battle itself its good but its a pain for the player and the character... guess thats why its the definitive edition
I have a god damn flight to catch in 5 hours and when I found out there’s a secret ending I had to figure it out. Little did I know it was going to eat up nearly 3 hours of my time. I lost Olan, Birdie, Fly and Terry over this. That was hands down the longest non-stop fight I’ve ever done in any video game history lol. I’m just writing this since climbing down this rope is gonna take a while I’m assuming. What a godamn sequence, truly a final battle I’ve been wanting from this game, really knocked it out of the park. With that said I’m finally goin to bed (it’s 5 am now). No more pain.
19:20 I cannot begin to explain the amount of shock I was in after seeing the Marty mound appear again and in such a horrific manner. Not to mention that Soft Skin is playing too, which makes it even more disturbing.
Looking back at it alongside Marty's dialogue, I believe this is a more metaphorical look at Brad plumbing his own mind. With Marty's manifestation forming as a sort of defense mechanism. Trying to stop him from reaching deeper memories and Traumas. Speaking as a "We" When discussing LISA/Buddy. and by overcoming Marty, Brad can properly fate his inner-torment.
That grueling fight really does what it can to reflect what Brad is going through. Really makes you think what kind of person Brad would have been if not for the situation he grew up in...
i think humanity might be as good as dead, i doubt there would be any one who would raise buddy similary to brad, and no brad means no buzzo, no Rando, heck rick, sticky and cheeks might not even be his friends if brad dint have a bad childhood i realy dont think there would be a good outcome if brad dint suffer sadly
My memory on LISA is fuzzy, so I could be missing or misinterpreting something, but one of the final segments, where Brad climbs a rope at mach speed is... It hurts, man. I read it as him frantically clawing his way along that rope, hoping to get to its start, and cut it. Before Lisa does that terrible thing, before he loses her forever. He already fucked up badly by not being strong enough, by not standing up to his Father, by not getting her to come along with him and his Grandfather, and now she's dead, and he blames himself for it for the rest of his life. I can vividly imagine him grinding his hand into blood, as he climbs, looking up into the dark sky and back to the earth, hoping to see that familiar glimmer of dirty white, that tired pale face with red lips. That's his baby sister. He was supposed to take care of her. And look where it's gotten them both. It's heartbreaking.
btw the fight has been slightly tweaked now on pc (the update is coming in like a week for consoles) any party members that have been consumed get turned into flower petals which do upwards to 18k damage on a random enemy, so now the fight can be made shorter
A common qualm I hear about joyful is that really neat core lore elements are hidden way off to the side, just like this. I always really like this. Amazing work on 2 hours for a fight, may be irritating, but I'd say it's part of the reward at the end. The Armstrong siblings having one last heart-to-heart and a mention of mother Armstrong.
I think Painful does the secret superboss better than Joyful. Painful just requires one step to access it (going back to the first campfire) while Joyful sends you on a whole-ass ARG.
Ok, even if this is a really neat addition to the Definitive Edition, there’s no way I can endure 2 hours of this. This feels more like a Kazio Mario hack than a LISA game.
@@DuckieMcduck Yeah, I heard about the addition of the flower petals. I’m happy to see that they’re taking into account people criticisms and trying to improve the game.
It's not actually THAT difficult. It's mostly just very long, but they've made it shorter now. You just need to know when to retreat your party and regroup. And use loads and loads of items.
I was climbing the rope for 2+ hours thinking that if I kept climbing up and up, that I'd eventually reach something insane, and you're telling me I had to climb down after a short while..??? dear god, Austin you funny man you with your meaning of life rope climbs..
I beat it, and yeah, characters who attack all enemies like Shocklord and Rooster felt really damn good to use.. Also, buckets' damage output for a single target was pretty good as well. It definitely matched if not slightly surpassed an armless Brad spamming Fireball 4s. I was hoping more though once you finish the dream and go on the boat, the interaction between Brad, Marty, and Buddy would have ended up different considering Brad just had the worst "nightmare" he's ever had..
This video had gotten into my recommended and showed me where the location of this fight is, I went back too my first save and went into this fight blind. He killed Olan, Birdie, and Mad Dog, my three best party members at the time (because I killed some good ones/I missed some good ones). Once I woke up I saved OVER my first save because I thought "it was just a dream their not actually dead." I went too a red gang poster too switch party members just too realize that their gone forever. Im starting a new save file tomorrow, im going to get all the party members in the game, as much EXP and items as I can get, and learn what every, single, party member, does. Im sad and I have a skill issue. Edit: I beat it, I also got every party member in one run as a bonus.
are we gonna talk about the fact that after the hallucination ends, the companions consumed by the manifestation of marty are still dead?... that could potentially imply that brad beat his allies/friends to death while hallucinating. or are we not ready to discuss that after everyone got attached after the terry campfire cutscene?
@@taisiasulina6730 because of the large pools of blood surrounding the campfire after brad wakes up and the fact that he wakes up decently far away from the campfire with several bottles on the ground around him, my headcanon is that he accidentally kills those party members while in a nightmare-induced fit of drunken rage
Did this fight in pain mode with no infinite exp grinding from the wrestling ring, no joy, armless Brad, no save points remaining, and had my best party members get wiped out first go around. It took four hours, and was exhausting. But IMO still worth it. One of the coolest things to come out of the entire franchise, and absolutely worth experiencing firsthand. Just... go in at level 40+, full arm Brad, and maxed out gear (I at least had that lol) for your own sake. Also huge tip that saved my ass: Marty doesn't consume party members until after a certain number of turns. So the fight's actually really easy if you exploit that and just escape after wailing on him for like six turns, repeat until death. Just... very long.
You can also just piss him off and he wont consume either. It's a bit more rng but you can kill him in 1 go if you have enough items to sustain. Though pissing him off isnt guaranteed.
IF you wanna know how to easily beat this fight: Have a party of Carp, someone able to inflict Pissed (I used Nern because he can also regen SP) and someone that deals good AoE damage (I used Shocklord) or extremely high single target damage (preferably Special damage). Deal with phases 1 and 2 (Blood Shadows and Spider Thralls) accordingly depeding on their cycle (In cycle 1 just spam AoE damage). I beat this boss second try so idk how bad it gets in further cycles, but just get through them. Once you face against Marty, continuously get him Pissed and defeat the Spider Sacs using Carp's Deep Poison Mist if you want, although it doesn't matter afaik. Then, while NEVER FAILING TO GET MARTY PISSED. Spam Carp's Wrist Slash on Marty, that way even if it hits you it'll do a lot less damage and be maneageable. You can also get the Spider Sacs Pissed if you want for some reason (maybe pray they'll hit Marty?) Congratulations, you just made this fight a lot easier. You're now free to spam you most powerful attacks on Marty until he dies. Be sure that your party member that induces Pissed NEVER runs out of SP/TP, since giving Marty one turn can be fatal. Also, this does not prevent Marty from using Psyche Sap, there's just no way around that, so deal with him as soon as possible!
I ended up with the same kind of tactic after having quite a few failures in trying to find a status that worked on 'em until i found pissed. Ended up with nern and garth doubling up on their moves that caused pissed just to make sure and kind of just used garth to use the attack up buff on brad and fardy up who was just there to make the first two fights a little easier to get through. Nern's finger beam was also a good source of consistent damage. The Carp thing's a good idea, probably would have replaced fardy because while fardy does good damage sometimes, it was random. Just kinda thought to bring fardy as most of my other aoe characters got devoured and I still wanted to get through the first two encounters with some ease.
brad's nightmare sequence wrecked me. the soundtrack, talking with brad's grandfather, the manifestation boss, the dialogue between lisa and brad, and the very end with marty's head. this destroyed me man i was ugly crying
i dont know how to feel about this maybe its the point of it being painful when the fight is nearly two hours long the dialogue and the imagery of this sequence, though, fucking beautiful weird how in a game called LISA this is like the only bit of solid characterization she gets maybe in the next patches the fight will get shorter cuz it sure feels like hell to go through, but even if doesnt, i feel obligated to go through that myself man this ALMOST redeems the butchering of Work Harder lol
@Juniper_Wippersnacheyou realise the original versions of the games are available to play alongside the updated game right? You don't need some moral high ground reason to pirate games lmao
@Juniper_Wippersnache Hey dumbass you realize the original experience is...Still a part of the game right? Even if you just bought LISA you have the option to play the original experience.
Something about how she waited a moment before responding made it seem like she was already contemplating it, but didn't want to be honest. It's not uncommon for those who commit suicide to be happy and full of laughs and cheer even mere *hours* before they do the deed. It's genuinely heartbreaking.
i ended up devising a strategy of using brad garth, terry, and birdie to make marty pissed at the start, then use a lucrative tea so birdie can gasoline spit, and have terry hype himself up. on the next turn, garth proceeds to buff terry while birdie makes him drunk giving him 100% crit rate, letting hottest dance do about 4000-6000 damage when getting the attack buffs plus oiled up marty. to avoid having my party members dying, i ran away when pissed wore off, and on the second wave, id use terry fardy and shocklord to clear an easy path to bring back in garth and birdie. those two can do just enough damage when hyped up by terry to destroy all the spider sacs should you crit with truck slam 1 and big shock. this happened and it allowed me to bypass the second wave of the fight with the marty spiders and tricky rick and cut down like an hour lol
Did a similar thing with Nern, Terry and Birdie and managed to beat the fight in like 30 mins with only 2 tries (had to escape once when pissed stopped just as Nern went down).
to be honest the whole fight with the marty manifestation and rising on the marty mound i felt something i never felt in years, being authenticaly scared by a godamn videogame
The flower petals you get when a party member dies have a low chance to do 20,000 damage to him, has a chance to make the fight a bit more reasonable. I only learned this like 2/3 of the way through, although it made my climb a bit less satisfying when I got two in a row around 30,000 hp Edit: Nevermind, I didn't realize you beat it before this was a thing, amazing job!
You need to be on the Pain mode and get all boat parts, then sleep on the first campfire. It's confirmed EDIT: Normal mode works just fine, thanks for the info dude
As long and difficult as this fight is it’s very nice of Austin to give you exp every time you fight the spiders Like that legitimately helps since it can give your party a much needed boost in stats
I love how interpretive it is to why Brad got beat up that day by marty, a sane person would probably assume it’s because he played with his moms things who his mom either left or is dead Or With how Marty is written it could also be that Marty didn’t want his son acting like a girl
The dialogue heavily implies the second example and what would be more fitting and expected from an abusive father who beat and raped his daughter? So all in all,this is the biggest i beg to differ moment and you don't believe in any of that shit you just sprout.
Makes you realize how fucked up Marty truly is. Marty deserved a death wish, and that’s what happened when Brad found him in the cave with Buddy. And no, I don’t care if he was trying to redeem himself, because the damage was already done. Marty deserved to died.
just… sad. these games always just make you wish things could’ve been different, but they’re not. it’s all terrible- and there’s no sign things will ever get too much better.
This fight is funny in the way it represents Marty’s abuse to Brad, but can also be beaten in around 20 minutes with, ironically, verbal abuse and alcohol abuse.
i'm too tired to beat marty by myself after trying for so long and came here but this ending is crazy, there's so much to discuss lol the buzzo crow thing had me insane, good track too also nice to see a bit of brad's grandpa and the little spider things that happen when ur party members die kill me inside also it's good to see that unused 'marty' song from lisa the first being used also, spoiler for olan: the little mutants that show up near brad's house (in olathe) there was one resembling olan and that rly hit me considering he mutated in my run :( that's why i didnt have him for this fight, i thought brad felt guilty about it. i'm just noticing it doesn't show up in this video,, i also saw a terry one but i dunno what it could mean
in my headcannon, this is definitely connected to the blood lake dimension from Pointless, they're both violent psyche manifestations and both include fights with avatars of trauma from the past, it's an interesting connection to think about, it's a shared realm of the supernatural
That was such a nice poem at the end there, it is a shame that this fight feels like such a drag and your party members seem to die for real even though you’re fighting in a dream
It's weird to me that people complain that your party members are lost permamently after this fight like it even matters. You literally need all 4 boat parts to even start this fight, by the time you have those parts there aren't even any notable opponents left to fight unless you missed one or two, the only thing i can see happening is someone fighting this boss before satan which i wouldn't even reccomend because you'd want mikes belt buckle for this fight make it a lot easier on you. Every party member, alive or dead might as well not exist after this fight as you have no more use for them.
It's an alternate expenditure of Party Members that isn't Russian Roulette. Its basically the "Smoke Em If You Got Em" moment for all your party members, not just your main party.
lost literally everybody in this fight and ended up completing it by the skin of my teeth. i then went to go confront sticky (no saves bc pain mode) and i ended up being one shot by sticky and put back to the previous save. i think ive gotten everything i needed from this game and will not be attempting again for a very long while.
Managed to do this without losing anyone. Bring Nern and Carp. He's not immune to pissed. Nern's dirty insult will keep him pissed and prevent him from using the consume move. He will however get very strong crits that can hit you, this is where Carp comes in. His Wrist Slash move will cut his atk and make his crits hit considerably weaker, never once did he one hit kill me after that. You'll be missing out on perhaps a faster, more optimized way of dealing damage so the fight will no doubt take longer(especially since you'll be missing out on the new flower petal item from lost party members that deals 18k damage), but if you really care about all your party members, this'll keep 'em safe. Be careful though, you HAVE to keep that pissed status on him. If you miss a beat and give him a turn he can and will use that consume move multiple times a turn. One attempt i slipped up and pissed ended, he used the consume move twice side by side, as if to make up for lost opportunities to use it. Which leads me to believe it's based on either amount of turns taken, or amount of health lost. Oh yeah, and Carp's bleed and poison affects the spider sacs, so even doing 0 damage while calcified, they just bled and got poisoned to death.
To my knowledge, scripted and forced joy uses do not ruin joyless runs. During the second encounter with Buzzo, he feeds you joy in a similar way, and that doesn't ruin it.
i hate that the game tried to show that marty changed and became a better person. some people can change but there are limits and marty was beyond that limit. Even if he could some people dont deserve redemption.
To be fair, we only know him through Brad/Lisa's eyes. Buddy AND Brad caused lots of deaths, and are objectively worse human beings than a shitty father, but we forgive them because we know their backstory. Marty doesn't have that privilege, so it's really easy for us to judge him despite the fact the only time he genuinely appears on-screen he's trying to fix his shit.
Some interesting stuff I and my friends noticed: It seems there are fewer "joy farmers" in your video than my friend's playthrough. However, my OTHER friend took very little joy and saw about as many "joy farmers" as are in this video. My friend also saw a Joy-Farmer-esque Terry in the location at 4:08. I'm not sure what the prerequisite for this is, but presumably it didn't show up due to you not having Terry in your party? I'm very curious as to what other changes there are and could be depending on how you play. EDIT: There's also a Joy-Farmer-esque Olan that my friend saw after seeing his campfire events, and allegedly one of Mad Dog. They might be related to the campfire events, then. Not sure how many there would be in that case.
I do think it has to do with campfire events, since I'm pretty sure it's Queen laying next to brads house at 3:48, which is one of the campfire events I wound up getting in my playthrough. I didn't see the Terry campfire cutscene (since he got obliterated by Wally), nor did I see the Olan event despite having him in my party for the entire playthrough (though IIRC eating joy is one of the prerequisites for that one), which would explain their absence. It's a shame that there's no Nern joy farmer around after having suffered through his campfire monologue, but hey, maybe that's his punishment for not being concise. ;p
After seeing the Joyful ending, I've realized that most of the "Joy Farmers" are actually manifestations of Dusty/Rando. There's a scene in the secret Joyful ending where you talk to Dusty's severed face, and it looks identical to the "faces" on the "Joy Farmer."
if you do all fights in the game without brad dying, he gets to around lv30. but this fight consists of waves and waves of enemies granting tons of experience every climb, so you level up fast. also the spider sacs allow for instant levelups to low level members.
marty is not immune to pissed off (meaning you can pretty much stunlock him if you have the people who can apply pissed off) the fight itself gets longer the more you fail, cutting losses will allow the next fights to be much easier (the pure example being spiders) i myself lost around 11 party members to this, to feel all the pain ofc
@@irisfold at some point the spiders got so damn hostile to me i was so scared of dying after doing so much :(((( like jesus christ it was horrifying, so yea im pretty sure the less you run away the easier the fight is also the fights at the start with ur companion's evil twins, i had yazan making my life HELL, like MFING YAZAN who almost always misses
@@miguelferreira5873 the spiders are not that dangerous at all, they can just stall the fight for hours if u cant properly kill them and tricky rick makes it thrice as worse, since every time u escape, he gets stronger (getting more buff moves, acting twice per turn and etcetera)
Martlo bow, which can be obtained on dismal island, after purchasing the map in karate village. Besides that he also has the E.W.C title belt. He's also using Mega Rapid Arrow, not just the normal one, which deals more base damage per arrow as well.
@@TehDogge I beated it recently I found a way to beat him without losing party members, My team was Shocklord for aoe, birdie for oil spit and support, nern for more support and comfort (+ pissed which is extremely useful to avoid the oneshot). Whenever pissed went out i would escape, heal, and return abusing the firebombs and d firebombs given by spiders, the more spiders you kill the more firebombs you get. After I learned the pissed strat mid fight you can rack a lot of dmg and be more in the fight. Thx for the answer. This thing was amazing, it rounded up a lot of things i didn't even expect
Because fuck you, suffer. That's the point of these games. No happy endings, not really. Things just get worse with small islands of hope between the waves of bullshit.
The one part that really gets me is talking to Brad’s grandpa.
He’s responsible for showing Brad how to conduct his pain into power. He rescued Brad from Marty as best he could. He gave him a life where he could actually fight back against his tormentors. He’s directly responsible for raising the man who killed half of Olathe.
But despite everything, he failed Brad as much as Marty did. He never showed Brad how to actually heal from his pain, only how to use it as a weapon to achieve “greatness”. He may have been as awful to Marty as Marty was to his kids, just to teach him pain. And he never rescued Lisa, even as she suffered as Brad did.
When you look at it, you really see how Brad was failed by every parent figure in his life, just as he failed Buddy.
_iT's tHe CycLe oF LifE !‽_
Marty's Grandpa looks kinda like Mike... new theory?
If we analize Martin, his attitude and insecurities may very well stem from him never reaching the "greatness" his father wanted from him. the reason he abuses both Brad and Lisa is, as he says, to make them stronger and make them grow fast so that the world will not hurt them. is a corrupted version of how Brad's grandad sees trauma and pain. However, Marty is also venting the powerlessness he felt during his childhood, using "techniques" that made him stronger against his father, which is drinking and being overall violent. Don't get me wrong, Marty is an evil monster, but Marty's dad created him, and considering how Brad's granpa wouldn't accept girls in his dojo, probably felt the same way of men acting "like girls". even his speech about making someone stronger and breaking them makes me think he would verbally abuse Martin in the same way Martin verbally abused Brad, only Martin took a step further fuelled by his insecurities towards his dad.
THIS GENERATIONAL TRAUMA HAS BEEN PASSED DOWN THE ARMSTRONG FAMILY LINE FOR GENERATIONS
In all fairness I don't think he knew about all of the fucked up shit Marty did to Brad. He probably just saw Marty as a burnout alcoholic loser neglecting his kids. He very likely didn't know about all of the horrible horrible stuff that happened to Brad and Lisa. It's possible he didn't even know about Lisa. Or, if he did, he only saw Brad constantly covered in bruises and beat to a pulp, not HER.
I love how after that hours long fight against the most terrifying being ever and watching countless people get consumed by the horde of masses, Olan was like "Well that just happened, you want a drink Brad, it's on me"
Just another day of hunting.
But seriously, it's the perfect punchline to the fight, both in an awesome way (Olan dealing the killing blow) and in a funny way (his complete nonchalance to the entire fucking horror show).
I don't normally drink, but I'd want half the whiskey in Olathe after all that.
My Marty was finished off by Nern, who immediately commemorated the death of the beast responsible for the loss of his friends with "Rot in Hell, Dale Spooner"
No friends.
No brothers.
No fathers.
No mothers.
Just me.
Funny how this is the most "depth" we'll get into Lisa's character outside of The First.
Brad: "Will you be ok?"
Lisa "Hanging there"
Yikes Oof
Sayori: "Same"
It hurts so much.
MARI: "Same"
I really hope that wasn't on purpose, with the ''I'm hanging in there'' as Lisa said.
Hmm I wonder if that dead fragile thing Lisa gave to Brad was the dead flower you have at the beginning of the game
I'm thinking the same thing
Spoilers
It is. In the new ending for lisa the joyful it explains it
my thoughts too
Just a tip if you don’t want to lose party members. Use Nern and Carp. Nern can keep Marty pissed so Marty won’t be able to do that weird kill sequence and Carp can lower his attack, rendering his damage zero. Get any third character you like that does a lot of damage, I used Terry but there are probably better options.
Should’ve specified what moves they need to use. Nern should use Dirty Insult (not Insult as I think it does not ensure pissed) and Carp should use wrist slash.
@@coolguy2048 Funny you mentionned it cause that's the strategy I employed during the entire game. Worked wonders for most of the fight, but his psych-saps and consuming moves aren't regular moves as he uses them between turns, meaning he still gets to use them despite being pissed. Nice try though but yeah you're pretty much forced to lose party members here (which I'm not a big fan of).
@starmenslayer6949 Do those spider egg sacs do anything or should I just focus on Marty?
Edit: I destroyed most of the spider egg sacs with only two remaining to the right of Marty, this seems to have stopped him from consuming my party members. I'm stuck in a slow slug fest now
@@PrakashaTheTree That'd be dope if it really works that way, I'll have to try it next attempt. Also if you didn't know the nutritious sacks they drop gives a fuckton of exp to a party member when used outside of battle. It's mainly used to level up other party members if you don't beat Marty in one go and your new gang is a little underleveled.
@starmenslayer6949 I thought that those nutrient sacs were for restoring HP but I'll take a closer look just to confirm, thanks for the tip. I swear, no joke, that he stopped consuming party members the second there were only two sacs left on the far right. It seems that the sacs themselves might affect what moves he can use at least in the first half of the battle.
Edit: Marty randomly consumed one of my party members when he had less than 20k HP, it happened for no apparent reason but it also gave me the ability to finish the battle then and there. RIP Ajeet
I feel like there's something supernatural going on with Joy now. Between the crow-Bernard thing being named "Bernard" even though Brad absolutely does not know that's Bernard and the Marty manifestation morphing into something that looks completely alien when it performs that psyche attack leads me to believe that whatever Joy is doing to people is literally causing sentient manifestations of trauma to exist within their minds. Maybe Yado stumbled onto some kind of psychic power that he infused into the Joy drug, who knows. It makes sense to me at least, especially with how we literally see the manifestations of trauma in Buddy and Brad's minds act as if they're their own independent entity. I wouldn't say it's too far-fetched, considering this is a world where a single event can wipe out half, and only half, of the human population, and where you can summon tangible fireballs with your emotions.
After some thought, I'm giving further credence to this. The additional content in the Joyful adds additional dialogue when Buzzo confesses that Brad was a good person to Buddy before he mutates. The additional dialogue has Buddy confronting Buzzo about Lisa. He's utterly stunned and shocked she even knows, and is confused how Buddy can "hear her". He even starts begging Lisa to talk to him again. I believe Buzzo, like Brad, had a sentient manifestation of trauma in his mind. For Brad, it was Marty.. for Bernard, it was Lisa. Buddy even mentions how Buzzo is masking his weakness by blaming Lisa, and as an observer, we can say she's right. Brad, despite being tormented by joy-influenced delusions of weaponized trauma inside his own head still fought to make good choices. He tried to be a good person. Bernard/Buzzo is a grim representation of what could have happened to Brad if he gave in to the trauma and let it control him. Buzzo even says Lisa dragged him in to the dark when he should have been her light. He isnt talking about Lisa, the girl, but about the living manifestation of trauma in his own head that takes Lisa's form. In the end, that's why Buddy says neither her or Brad could possibly blame him for what he did to Olathe. It was Yado and always was Yado using him because he wasn't strong enough to resist the Joy and its influences.
Fittingly, Yado is killed unceremoniously. He deserved as much.
Buzzo is such a good foil to Brad. Both run with big groups of people, both hurt those people to get closer to their end goal, but the major difference is this. Brad mostly internalized his trauma and weaponizes it in the forms of fireball, while Buzzo lashed out at those who followed him. Brad tried to seek redemption by quitting Joy and raising Buddy while Buzzo kept doing it despite knowing the horrible monster it would turn himself into.
The eclipse.
@@ozymandiasramesses1773 what?
It's said that joy makes you feel nothing. Not good, or bad, just nothing. I suppose that with so much pain in the people who take such a drug, it has to go somewhere? It doesn't just, disappear, I guess
@@regis8714 The eclipse is an elignment of celestial bodies. Not really an effect of opioids and neither is it a psychoactive. From my interpretation Mutants play by similar rules to Apostles from Berserk. This eclipse confirms that for me.
Important thing to note: After the battle you get 99 joy pills
WE'RE GETTING FUVKING RIVH BABYYYYYY
@@SlugOnTub you only get 990 mags from selling all of them... You could make more by finish Russian roulette. Best to use these joys instead of selling them.
@@platinumdelirium9826 i dont use joy
Buzzo: Hey guys you know what would be really funny...
@@platinumdelirium9826 Winners don't do drugs... Except Brad, most of the times...
The Marty fight is meant to show that if you can’t even deal with such a long fight imagine the years of fighting Lisa and Brad had to deal with, all while being even more powerless than you
Yo that’s actually pretty smart
That doesnt change the fact that I want to bash my head through my desk playing it.
@@mouthwide0pen Fair, battle could be shorter.
@@PumpkinWarlock...skipping the symbolism for your entertainment? How desensitized have you become?
@@edward9487 you can get to the symbolism without fighting a superboss that takes hours to beat. i think fights like these toe the line between being grueling and just plain tedious, and honestly I can't really blame people for not being enthused by fighting a boss like this.
Brad realizing who Buzzo really is caught me off guard ngl, not more than the ending or the fight, but damn that's harsh
When was that
I don't remember that, when does it happen?
To be fair i believe it was highly implied by the Buzzo's crow head in a stake fight, it's name changes to Bernard. That, and that in the secret Joyful ending Buddy seems to know who Buzzo is and how he trained in the Armstrong Dojo.
"i'm hanging in there"
yeeeeeeeeeessssssshhhh
SHE DIDNT LIE
SAVAGE!!!!!
If anyone is curious. Hitting the "Surrender" option makes the Marty Mound make fun of you for being a coward, then the game boots you back out to the campfire like nothing ever happened.
I'm fine with that being how it ended for me. Neat sequence, but man, this fight doesn't need to go on as long as it does.
You can go back to sleep, and spawn back in Brads room in the dream, and then go back to Marty and continue fighting. (I don't know if his HP gets reset or not in doing so, however).
You also wake up in the same way as surrendering, if you die at any point in the encounter.
Any party member that dies also died for me after I surrendered. And if you go back, Marty is back at full health.
@austinterry4182 that is one of the problems I have with this fight. It's implied this is all some sort of dream so how do you party members permanently die?
Let's just assume they left. Maybe Brad's flipping out in his sleep and they just can't deal.
@ddddddinguuuuuu ok but you're fighting alongside them. That doesn't make very much sense ngl I feel like it's just like that to just to make it harder for no reason which is stupid af to me
I love how unapologetically hesitant and TEDIOUS some of these segments get. It’s kind of a weird thing to appreciate, I guess, but it’s an amazing representation of the extent of Brad’s trauma. It’s not easy to get over abuse. It’s not easy to just forget about the past and move on. It requires immense willpower just to confront that trauma, let alone to conquer it. Even when given proper tools to cope, like counseling or a circle of caring friends to fall back on, trauma is something that you have to deal with yourself. There’s never an easy way out, and this sequence reflects it perfectly.
I love climbing down a rope for 15 minutes.
whole 2 hours of fighting is insane, dude. thank you for your hard work
the conversation with brad and lisa at the end is very interesting to me since it confirms that
1. lisa and brad grew up alongside each other somewhat
2. their mom was also present, at least in the early stages of their childhood
its weird though because it kinda contridicts the beginning of the game, but maybe that's just brads memory being messed up due to joy or something
Technically it’s never said that their mom was still around, only that Brad and Lisa went through her things. She probably left some stuff behind when she left the family.
But on that note, this content DOES confirm that Mrs. Armstrong indeed left Marty. In fact, it retcons the secret ending of The First, which says that she outright died.
*EDIT:* Welp, nevermind, the new epilogue for The Joyful says Mrs. Armstrong was around well into Lisa’s childhood. Which contradicts the intro for The Painful and throws all of Marty’s characterization out the window. That’s just great. 🤦♂️
@Juniper_Wippersnache the person or the franchise wdym
@Juniper_WippersnacheYou sound like youre under the age of 16, come back to this comment when you learn how to drive a car and think about how immature youre acting. Your other comments too...
How does it contradict the intro and ruin Marty's characterization? I just don't see how their mothers presence changes things exactly.
@@TheSpaceCommunistDude….Austin confirmed AWHILE ago that their mom was present in their childhood and that her death is what caused Marty to really lose his shit
Im not the biggest fan on how the new engine changes some things but honestly if things like THIS are possible I'd say its worth it
It's interesting to see that this superboss is a sort of dramatic parallel to Lisa's final fight.
First, Brad fights the shadows of his party (similarly to the final "friends fight" sequence, albeit significantly more difficult).
Then, he battles his enemy's minions (similarly to how Brad must decimate Rando's army before he can face Rando himself).
Finally, he must face the last enemy in his way and desperately attempt to save a young girl (who, in both fights, is an ever-present reminder of an agonizing past).
The difference? Here, Brad isn't alone fighting a hopeless battle that cannot be won. His friends stand beside him. The one person in the world who truly hurt him the most stands before him. Brad has everything to lose and everything to gain.
In his own joy-fueled nightmare, Brad imagines his hopeless ordeal as the one thing he could only ever dream of: freedom from the subsuming guilt that tears at him with every step he takes towards his final battle.
It's the very culmination of everything his journey stands for, but told in a valiant light: to sail across the sea, defeat his enemy in a faraway land, and free the girl he could not save earlier. It's an impossible fight, but with everyone he's ever trusted by his side, he just might win it. And he does.
Of course, as Marty's head would be more than happy to remind him, it's not that easy. His friends are torn to shreds by his own hand; once again, in his efforts to find closure, Brad's joy addiction has resulted in him brutalizing those he cares about most.
I can only wonder if this battle is what Brad truly sees as his mutating mind slowly succumbs to joy while fighting Rando.
that is definitely an interesting take, especially considering the bit before the boss where brad comes upon rando approaching buddy and it changes to marty watching lisa hang. definitely a lot of parallels.
....Ohhhhhh
So that's what the blood in the campfire mean!! I would have never guessed that since I actually beat marty without anyone being absorbed, I just thougth that was brad punching the ever living SHIT out of himself and his allies till he calmed down. Instead that being blood from his comrades makes a lot more sense....
I bought Lisa twice and all I got was my life ruined. Thank you, Dingaling.
i managed to do the fight it was so hard for me but the conversation between brad and lisa was so worth it. i'm glad i decided to see it myself
it's rly good seeing more of lisa as a person; she acted emotional and human and i'm sure as hell that what she asked brad to keep was the dead flower. you can also see a bit of her manipulative behavior when she says 'you owe me' so you see both sides of lisa which makes her even more human
that little memory of lisa and brad with the makeup was too cute i cried, i loved seeing lisa laughing even if she was rly tired
I don't know about anyone else. But I loved this whole portion. I liked the atmosphere and the more information on Brad's backstory. Although the Marty fight was absolutely way too long.
Marty sure didn't fuck around.
Imagine pain that Lisa ans Brad endured all those years compared to 2 hours, guess thats the message that the battle wants to show
I'm more asshurt from the lack of saving before the fight and the 30 minutes of walking to get to the boss
@@doothdooth Oh I 100% agree. Marty's such a long boss that doing it all in one sitting is not fun at all, and the long walk is bad too.
@@sanfordt.killer5236 ThAt'S tHe PaIn BrAd AnD LIsA EnDuReD bUt In YeArS
Jokes aside that's true, the battle itself its good but its a pain for the player and the character... guess thats why its the definitive edition
I have a god damn flight to catch in 5 hours and when I found out there’s a secret ending I had to figure it out. Little did I know it was going to eat up nearly 3 hours of my time. I lost Olan, Birdie, Fly and Terry over this. That was hands down the longest non-stop fight I’ve ever done in any video game history lol. I’m just writing this since climbing down this rope is gonna take a while I’m assuming. What a godamn sequence, truly a final battle I’ve been wanting from this game, really knocked it out of the park. With that said I’m finally goin to bed (it’s 5 am now). No more pain.
Did you catch your flight
@@fungusghoul yeah I made it lol, so hungover rn
Tip for not losing your members keep Marty enraged if he's enraged he can't perform his consume attack
19:20 I cannot begin to explain the amount of shock I was in after seeing the Marty mound appear again and in such a horrific manner. Not to mention that Soft Skin is playing too, which makes it even more disturbing.
When I played LISA the first time I was expecting a Gigas like section from the trailers. Now I finally have it
Looking back at it alongside Marty's dialogue, I believe this is a more metaphorical look at Brad plumbing his own mind. With Marty's manifestation forming as a sort of defense mechanism. Trying to stop him from reaching deeper memories and Traumas. Speaking as a "We" When discussing LISA/Buddy.
and by overcoming Marty, Brad can properly fate his inner-torment.
A pink face... with a huge grin... and red lips...
It's the Joy Mask.
Oh, Bradley....
That's. Such a heartbreaking realisation.
we dont need more reasons to hate buzzo man, we allready have enough
That grueling fight really does what it can to reflect what Brad is going through. Really makes you think what kind of person Brad would have been if not for the situation he grew up in...
i think humanity might be as good as dead, i doubt there would be any one who would raise buddy similary to brad, and no brad means no buzzo, no Rando, heck rick, sticky and cheeks might not even be his friends if brad dint have a bad childhood
i realy dont think there would be a good outcome if brad dint suffer sadly
My memory on LISA is fuzzy, so I could be missing or misinterpreting something, but one of the final segments, where Brad climbs a rope at mach speed is... It hurts, man.
I read it as him frantically clawing his way along that rope, hoping to get to its start, and cut it. Before Lisa does that terrible thing, before he loses her forever. He already fucked up badly by not being strong enough, by not standing up to his Father, by not getting her to come along with him and his Grandfather, and now she's dead, and he blames himself for it for the rest of his life.
I can vividly imagine him grinding his hand into blood, as he climbs, looking up into the dark sky and back to the earth, hoping to see that familiar glimmer of dirty white, that tired pale face with red lips. That's his baby sister. He was supposed to take care of her. And look where it's gotten them both.
It's heartbreaking.
btw the fight has been slightly tweaked now on pc (the update is coming in like a week for consoles) any party members that have been consumed get turned into flower petals which do upwards to 18k damage on a random enemy, so now the fight can be made shorter
With the cost of permanent death of a party member!!!
Now if only they didn't have a chance of missing....
Dingaling knows how to make me cry... holly sh*t, what a game, dude!
Olan: "Drinks on me!"
Dunno if it's perfect for beating Marty.
A common qualm I hear about joyful is that really neat core lore elements are hidden way off to the side, just like this. I always really like this.
Amazing work on 2 hours for a fight, may be irritating, but I'd say it's part of the reward at the end. The Armstrong siblings having one last heart-to-heart and a mention of mother Armstrong.
🙂
I think Painful does the secret superboss better than Joyful. Painful just requires one step to access it (going back to the first campfire) while Joyful sends you on a whole-ass ARG.
jesus this feels like one of those creepypastas about a secret ending but actually scary
Ok, even if this is a really neat addition to the Definitive Edition, there’s no way I can endure 2 hours of this. This feels more like a Kazio Mario hack than a LISA game.
They made it shorter now.
@@DuckieMcduck Yeah, I heard about the addition of the flower petals. I’m happy to see that they’re taking into account people criticisms and trying to improve the game.
It's not actually THAT difficult. It's mostly just very long, but they've made it shorter now. You just need to know when to retreat your party and regroup. And use loads and loads of items.
I was climbing the rope for 2+ hours thinking that if I kept climbing up and up, that I'd eventually reach something insane, and you're telling me I had to climb down after a short while..???
dear god, Austin you funny man you with your meaning of life rope climbs..
Yeah, I'll try this fight on a different day cause I'm already very tired..
I beat it, and yeah, characters who attack all enemies like Shocklord and Rooster felt really damn good to use.. Also, buckets' damage output for a single target was pretty good as well. It definitely matched if not slightly surpassed an armless Brad spamming Fireball 4s.
I was hoping more though once you finish the dream and go on the boat, the interaction between Brad, Marty, and Buddy would have ended up different considering Brad just had the worst "nightmare" he's ever had..
I did, however, realize in my inventory that I received 99 pieces of joy.
Doing this sequence before getting to the actual ending of the game creates such a genuinely heart-wrenching sequence of events
This video had gotten into my recommended and showed me where the location of this fight is, I went back too my first save and went into this fight blind.
He killed Olan, Birdie, and Mad Dog, my three best party members at the time (because I killed some good ones/I missed some good ones).
Once I woke up I saved OVER my first save because I thought "it was just a dream their not actually dead."
I went too a red gang poster too switch party members just too realize that their gone forever.
Im starting a new save file tomorrow, im going to get all the party members in the game, as much EXP and items as I can get, and learn what every, single, party member, does.
Im sad and I have a skill issue.
Edit: I beat it, I also got every party member in one run as a bonus.
are we gonna talk about the fact that after the hallucination ends, the companions consumed by the manifestation of marty are still dead?... that could potentially imply that brad beat his allies/friends to death while hallucinating.
or are we not ready to discuss that after everyone got attached after the terry campfire cutscene?
hungry lil' man deserves a snack 😊😊😋
Maybe the allies that got "consumed" decided "aight, I'm gonna head out" while Brad had his mental breakdown
@@heavygunner4039 yeah, that might be the case for most, but i doubt it with some of them(terry for example)
@@heavygunner4039 it's not impossible, though. considering that all the party members can abandon brad when he rests, including terry
@@taisiasulina6730 because of the large pools of blood surrounding the campfire after brad wakes up and the fact that he wakes up decently far away from the campfire with several bottles on the ground around him, my headcanon is that he accidentally kills those party members while in a nightmare-induced fit of drunken rage
Did this fight in pain mode with no infinite exp grinding from the wrestling ring, no joy, armless Brad, no save points remaining, and had my best party members get wiped out first go around. It took four hours, and was exhausting. But IMO still worth it. One of the coolest things to come out of the entire franchise, and absolutely worth experiencing firsthand.
Just... go in at level 40+, full arm Brad, and maxed out gear (I at least had that lol) for your own sake. Also huge tip that saved my ass: Marty doesn't consume party members until after a certain number of turns. So the fight's actually really easy if you exploit that and just escape after wailing on him for like six turns, repeat until death. Just... very long.
You can also just piss him off and he wont consume either. It's a bit more rng but you can kill him in 1 go if you have enough items to sustain. Though pissing him off isnt guaranteed.
@@AkenoshitaWith Nern it's 100%
I don't know if any game has inner demons as horrific as Lisa's.
This is nuts. Thanks for the vid!
2:09:32 shoutouts to fabian playing CS:GO
The hit'n run battle mechanics are really interesting.
IF you wanna know how to easily beat this fight:
Have a party of Carp, someone able to inflict Pissed (I used Nern because he can also regen SP) and someone that deals good AoE damage (I used Shocklord) or extremely high single target damage (preferably Special damage).
Deal with phases 1 and 2 (Blood Shadows and Spider Thralls) accordingly depeding on their cycle (In cycle 1 just spam AoE damage). I beat this boss second try so idk how bad it gets in further cycles, but just get through them.
Once you face against Marty, continuously get him Pissed and defeat the Spider Sacs using Carp's Deep Poison Mist if you want, although it doesn't matter afaik. Then, while NEVER FAILING TO GET MARTY PISSED. Spam Carp's Wrist Slash on Marty, that way even if it hits you it'll do a lot less damage and be maneageable. You can also get the Spider Sacs Pissed if you want for some reason (maybe pray they'll hit Marty?)
Congratulations, you just made this fight a lot easier. You're now free to spam you most powerful attacks on Marty until he dies. Be sure that your party member that induces Pissed NEVER runs out of SP/TP, since giving Marty one turn can be fatal. Also, this does not prevent Marty from using Psyche Sap, there's just no way around that, so deal with him as soon as possible!
I ended up with the same kind of tactic after having quite a few failures in trying to find a status that worked on 'em until i found pissed. Ended up with nern and garth doubling up on their moves that caused pissed just to make sure and kind of just used garth to use the attack up buff on brad and fardy up who was just there to make the first two fights a little easier to get through. Nern's finger beam was also a good source of consistent damage. The Carp thing's a good idea, probably would have replaced fardy because while fardy does good damage sometimes, it was random. Just kinda thought to bring fardy as most of my other aoe characters got devoured and I still wanted to get through the first two encounters with some ease.
brad's nightmare sequence wrecked me. the soundtrack, talking with brad's grandfather, the manifestation boss, the dialogue between lisa and brad, and the very end with marty's head. this destroyed me man i was ugly crying
i dont know how to feel about this
maybe its the point of it being painful when the fight is nearly two hours long
the dialogue and the imagery of this sequence, though, fucking beautiful
weird how in a game called LISA this is like the only bit of solid characterization she gets
maybe in the next patches the fight will get shorter cuz it sure feels like hell to go through, but even if doesnt, i feel obligated to go through that myself
man
this ALMOST redeems the butchering of Work Harder lol
@Juniper_Wippersnache You REALLY don't like this new update huh lol
@Juniper_Wippersnache but if you dont like it and think this update ruined the game that's fine
@@fungusghoulI believe that was someone else who was converting First to a Painful style.
@Juniper_Wippersnacheyou realise the original versions of the games are available to play alongside the updated game right? You don't need some moral high ground reason to pirate games lmao
@Juniper_Wippersnache Hey dumbass you realize the original experience is...Still a part of the game right? Even if you just bought LISA you have the option to play the original experience.
"Promise me you will be okay?"
"Will you?"
"I'll hang with there"
She didn't broke her promise, she literally "hang" in there after Brad run away.
Something about how she waited a moment before responding made it seem like she was already contemplating it, but didn't want to be honest. It's not uncommon for those who commit suicide to be happy and full of laughs and cheer even mere *hours* before they do the deed. It's genuinely heartbreaking.
🦫
Thanks for doing this. This sequence is super cool, but too hard and tedious for me. I gave up after two waves lol
You just gotta keep going, use all the best party members ya got
This fight is so much faster with birdie terry and nern as support
i ended up devising a strategy of using brad garth, terry, and birdie to make marty pissed at the start, then use a lucrative tea so birdie can gasoline spit, and have terry hype himself up. on the next turn, garth proceeds to buff terry while birdie makes him drunk giving him 100% crit rate, letting hottest dance do about 4000-6000 damage when getting the attack buffs plus oiled up marty. to avoid having my party members dying, i ran away when pissed wore off, and on the second wave, id use terry fardy and shocklord to clear an easy path to bring back in garth and birdie. those two can do just enough damage when hyped up by terry to destroy all the spider sacs should you crit with truck slam 1 and big shock. this happened and it allowed me to bypass the second wave of the fight with the marty spiders and tricky rick and cut down like an hour lol
I’m gonna try this… I want to experience the. Ending for myself but fighting for 2hrs straight is not it 💀
Did a similar thing with Nern, Terry and Birdie and managed to beat the fight in like 30 mins with only 2 tries (had to escape once when pissed stopped just as Nern went down).
"My childhood dog"
Does that mean Brad had a dog when he was a kid? Because it was never shown in flashbacks.
to be honest the whole fight with the marty manifestation and rising on the marty mound i felt something i never felt in years, being authenticaly scared by a godamn videogame
The flower petals you get when a party member dies have a low chance to do 20,000 damage to him, has a chance to make the fight a bit more reasonable. I only learned this like 2/3 of the way through, although it made my climb a bit less satisfying when I got two in a row around 30,000 hp
Edit: Nevermind, I didn't realize you beat it before this was a thing, amazing job!
You need to be on the Pain mode and get all boat parts, then sleep on the first campfire. It's confirmed
EDIT: Normal mode works just fine, thanks for the info dude
Not sure about Pain Mode, I heard people mention that it could be done on Normal.
Кандёхай веселее, btw
@@slash8297 Could be, might do it later myself, обхожу.
@@shelluponI just tried in on normal mode, it worked.
@@Lisasbiggestfanevar i'll edit it, thanks
By first campfire, do you mean the very first campfire after Brad leaves his home? If so, how do you get back there?
I almost pissed myself at extra mutant brad. christ.
As long and difficult as this fight is it’s very nice of Austin to give you exp every time you fight the spiders
Like that legitimately helps since it can give your party a much needed boost in stats
I love how interpretive it is to why Brad got beat up that day by marty, a sane person would probably assume it’s because he played with his moms things who his mom either left or is dead
Or
With how Marty is written it could also be that Marty didn’t want his son acting like a girl
The dialogue heavily implies the second example and what would be more fitting and expected from an abusive father who beat and raped his daughter? So all in all,this is the biggest i beg to differ moment and you don't believe in any of that shit you just sprout.
"I'm hanging in there" 😬
lisa the painful remastered was worth it
I thought the new ending would be found by doing pain mode + joyless since that was missing from the OG game, whoops)
Oh damn I didn't even know this was a thing that was happening. Guess I've got to play the game again now.
This is probably one of the most epic superboss fights in all RPG history.
Makes you realize how fucked up Marty truly is. Marty deserved a death wish, and that’s what happened when Brad found him in the cave with Buddy. And no, I don’t care if he was trying to redeem himself, because the damage was already done. Marty deserved to died.
just… sad. these games always just make you wish things could’ve been different, but they’re not. it’s all terrible- and there’s no sign things will ever get too much better.
It's Painful, isn't it.
@Juniper_Wippersnachejesus christ can’t you just shut up for a second?
@Juniper_Wippersnachehey, is not that bad, some things in de are really good
@@necrojoke1994 it could be better
@Juniper_Wippersnache how is it unfinished? looks pretty finished to me
well, thats definitely one hell of a superboss.
This fight is funny in the way it represents Marty’s abuse to Brad, but can also be beaten in around 20 minutes with, ironically, verbal abuse and alcohol abuse.
i'm too tired to beat marty by myself after trying for so long and came here but this ending is crazy, there's so much to discuss lol
the buzzo crow thing had me insane, good track too
also nice to see a bit of brad's grandpa
and the little spider things that happen when ur party members die kill me inside
also it's good to see that unused 'marty' song from lisa the first being used
also, spoiler for olan: the little mutants that show up near brad's house (in olathe) there was one resembling olan and that rly hit me considering he mutated in my run :( that's why i didnt have him for this fight, i thought brad felt guilty about it. i'm just noticing it doesn't show up in this video,, i also saw a terry one but i dunno what it could mean
in my headcannon, this is definitely connected to the blood lake dimension from Pointless, they're both violent psyche manifestations and both include fights with avatars of trauma from the past, it's an interesting connection to think about, it's a shared realm of the supernatural
That was such a nice poem at the end there, it is a shame that this fight feels like such a drag and your party members seem to die for real even though you’re fighting in a dream
At that point in the game you dont need them anymore
i really didn't want to get spoiled on this fight, but it's so difficult that i don't really mind now, maybe one day
It's weird to me that people complain that your party members are lost permamently after this fight like it even matters.
You literally need all 4 boat parts to even start this fight, by the time you have those parts there aren't even any notable opponents left to fight unless you missed one or two, the only thing i can see happening is someone fighting this boss before satan which i wouldn't even
reccomend because you'd want mikes belt buckle for this fight make it a lot easier on you.
Every party member, alive or dead might as well not exist after this fight as you have no more use for them.
It's an alternate expenditure of Party Members that isn't Russian Roulette.
Its basically the "Smoke Em If You Got Em" moment for all your party members, not just your main party.
lost literally everybody in this fight and ended up completing it by the skin of my teeth. i then went to go confront sticky (no saves bc pain mode) and i ended up being one shot by sticky and put back to the previous save. i think ive gotten everything i needed from this game and will not be attempting again for a very long while.
4 hours for anyone wondering, i didnt use flower petals or nern pissed strats
I wonder if the Marty encounter on the island changes at all after this
It doesn’t.
Shoutsout to everyone here because they decided this boss ordeal wasn't worth it.
Agreed. Dev made this battle the way he did just to piss people off. Congrats, dev. Nobody is impressed.
"I'm hanging in there..."
*ba dmm tss*
Lisa is my favorite horror game
Managed to do this without losing anyone. Bring Nern and Carp.
He's not immune to pissed. Nern's dirty insult will keep him pissed and prevent him from using the consume move. He will however get very strong crits that can hit you, this is where Carp comes in. His Wrist Slash move will cut his atk and make his crits hit considerably weaker, never once did he one hit kill me after that.
You'll be missing out on perhaps a faster, more optimized way of dealing damage so the fight will no doubt take longer(especially since you'll be missing out on the new flower petal item from lost party members that deals 18k damage), but if you really care about all your party members, this'll keep 'em safe.
Be careful though, you HAVE to keep that pissed status on him. If you miss a beat and give him a turn he can and will use that consume move multiple times a turn.
One attempt i slipped up and pissed ended, he used the consume move twice side by side, as if to make up for lost opportunities to use it. Which leads me to believe it's based on either amount of turns taken, or amount of health lost.
Oh yeah, and Carp's bleed and poison affects the spider sacs, so even doing 0 damage while calcified, they just bled and got poisoned to death.
damn son
This took me four hours to go through.
Jesus
Bernard inflicted Joy on me. Is my Joyless run ruined now?
To my knowledge, scripted and forced joy uses do not ruin joyless runs. During the second encounter with Buzzo, he feeds you joy in a similar way, and that doesn't ruin it.
...Suddenly Galdera looks like a cute cuddly bear in like... every sense of the analogy. Holy shit.
Wait, when brad falls in a cliff , he does the flowey damaged sfx?...
i hate that the game tried to show that marty changed and became a better person. some people can change but there are limits and marty was beyond that limit. Even if he could some people dont deserve redemption.
To be fair, we only know him through Brad/Lisa's eyes. Buddy AND Brad caused lots of deaths, and are objectively worse human beings than a shitty father, but we forgive them because we know their backstory. Marty doesn't have that privilege, so it's really easy for us to judge him despite the fact the only time he genuinely appears on-screen he's trying to fix his shit.
Fly going down at the very end was so sad :(
kind of weird to see this but hey it's cool
Some interesting stuff I and my friends noticed:
It seems there are fewer "joy farmers" in your video than my friend's playthrough. However, my OTHER friend took very little joy and saw about as many "joy farmers" as are in this video.
My friend also saw a Joy-Farmer-esque Terry in the location at 4:08. I'm not sure what the prerequisite for this is, but presumably it didn't show up due to you not having Terry in your party?
I'm very curious as to what other changes there are and could be depending on how you play.
EDIT: There's also a Joy-Farmer-esque Olan that my friend saw after seeing his campfire events, and allegedly one of Mad Dog. They might be related to the campfire events, then. Not sure how many there would be in that case.
I do think it has to do with campfire events, since I'm pretty sure it's Queen laying next to brads house at 3:48, which is one of the campfire events I wound up getting in my playthrough. I didn't see the Terry campfire cutscene (since he got obliterated by Wally), nor did I see the Olan event despite having him in my party for the entire playthrough (though IIRC eating joy is one of the prerequisites for that one), which would explain their absence. It's a shame that there's no Nern joy farmer around after having suffered through his campfire monologue, but hey, maybe that's his punishment for not being concise. ;p
After seeing the Joyful ending, I've realized that most of the "Joy Farmers" are actually manifestations of Dusty/Rando. There's a scene in the secret Joyful ending where you talk to Dusty's severed face, and it looks identical to the "faces" on the "Joy Farmer."
Question: How did you get everyone to such high levels? I've only ever peaked at the mid twenties in the original game, is there a new way to grind?
if you do all fights in the game without brad dying, he gets to around lv30. but this fight consists of waves and waves of enemies granting tons of experience every climb, so you level up fast. also the spider sacs allow for instant levelups to low level members.
@@TehDogge very good to know. Thank you for the help!
@@ChaosUnownThat, I'm pretty sure there's some kind of EXP Share in the game that allows members outside your party to gain half EXP.
If I don’t want any party members to die, how many times should I escape?
marty is not immune to pissed off (meaning you can pretty much stunlock him if you have the people who can apply pissed off)
the fight itself gets longer the more you fail, cutting losses will allow the next fights to be much easier (the pure example being spiders)
i myself lost around 11 party members to this, to feel all the pain ofc
@@irisfold I lost my fucking nern dude I hated him but he was useful.
@@irisfold at some point the spiders got so damn hostile to me i was so scared of dying after doing so much :(((( like jesus christ it was horrifying, so yea im pretty sure the less you run away the easier the fight is
also the fights at the start with ur companion's evil twins, i had yazan making my life HELL, like MFING YAZAN who almost always misses
@@miguelferreira5873 the spiders are not that dangerous at all, they can just stall the fight for hours if u cant properly kill them
and tricky rick makes it thrice as worse, since every time u escape, he gets stronger (getting more buff moves, acting twice per turn and etcetera)
@@irisfold yes that's what i meant, tricky rick made the fight too hard
you really should leave more time for text to be on screen
So do you permenanlty lose the party members?
Yes forever
@@PureserverThat's really dumb
@@snowstorm9172not really. By the time you get here there's nothing left to fight.
Oh god almighty i cant find the theme for marty's second phase
Its on youtube as the worst call yet
@@SrMadru many thanks :)
Is marty inmune to status effects?
He can be oiled up I know that atleast!
@@undoingcat03mmmmmm
@@undoingcat03that would have been nice to know I just finished the fight…
I think he immune to damage over time type effects at least poison to me
@@wowwho2288All DOTs go off of a percentage of the targets health. If Marty wasnt immune, he'd get dumpstered by it.
Is that really a final? Because, even if I say that I like all The symbolism and the fight, I didn't understand anything.
Does anyone know the name of the song playing at 1:46:00?
Really curious what the music is that plays during Brad’s descent after the Marty fight. It was played in the release trailer
they turned this fucking game into darkest dungeon?
Beat marty doesn't change anything at the end of the game, right?
Everything going on in this secret thing. If you can call it a secret. Holy shit...
I commend your effort. I gave up after an hour
What was olan equipment? Mine hits very little damage per big fast arrow attack
Martlo bow, which can be obtained on dismal island, after purchasing the map in karate village. Besides that he also has the E.W.C title belt. He's also using Mega Rapid Arrow, not just the normal one, which deals more base damage per arrow as well.
@@TehDogge I beated it recently I found a way to beat him without losing party members, My team was Shocklord for aoe, birdie for oil spit and support, nern for more support and comfort (+ pissed which is extremely useful to avoid the oneshot). Whenever pissed went out i would escape, heal, and return abusing the firebombs and d firebombs given by spiders, the more spiders you kill the more firebombs you get. After I learned the pissed strat mid fight you can rack a lot of dmg and be more in the fight. Thx for the answer. This thing was amazing, it rounded up a lot of things i didn't even expect
Why do you permanently lose party members in this...
Because fuck you, suffer. That's the point of these games. No happy endings, not really. Things just get worse with small islands of hope between the waves of bullshit.
You can't save them, you can't even save yourself.
because there’s like no game left after this and a lot of bosses can do that anyways
@@dooooooook3610 well yes but all of that happens in real life...this is supposed to be a dream right?
@@scriggle3564I am have theory Brad kill party member dream