Hey guys! Thanks for checking out this video! Just a quick reminder that this project was a custom solution to a niche problem that I was having and isn't mean as a be-all-and-end-all solution to extending fiber and power. When it comes to power there are factors you need to consider to determine what devices you can and cannot power with this method. My pressbox draws little current and therefore can get away with this. Something to keep in mind is that SMPTE 311 cables are rated for 600vac 10amp - which is the equivalent of running 18awg wire. Distance is also a factor as resistance comes into play. Please, always make sure you do your calculations before attempting anything like this involving power otherwise you can damage your gear. I hope to make a part-two video to this (based on your feedback) going over how to determine your power requirements and how I did this for myself.
Man this is a great idea! You might want to consider putting a 10 amp fuse or circuit breaker in the remote box just to protect the SMPTE cable from getting overloaded
Awesome as always Ryan. We must be Doppelgängers I was working on something similar. The only difference is I was going to try and use powercon connectors so that they lock into place. Keep up the good work man!!
Sure! You should also check out my video on building an NDI camera monitor where I go over some of the basics: ua-cam.com/video/u9n95Lhc6UU/v-deo.html In this workflow you'll need an NDI encoder (to get the baseband video to NDI) and a decoder (to get the NDI signal back to baseband video.) For this, I am using the Birddog Studio SDI to NDI Encoder at the remote location and the Birddog Quad NDI to SDI Decoder at the truck end.
@@BroadcastBuddyTV Thank for the reply, I already watched the video two times :), it is a great video but I need to get a big picture on how the devices are working together in Ndi work flow, I understand from you video that a single Birddog can be used to convert upto 4 HDSDI camera inputs into one NDI stream output over a single ethernet cable then that single cable will be connected to an ethernet switch, then from that switch you connect to your different devices and here I need to understand more, how I can connect monitors, vision mixers, video routers, recorders and how I configure them and what the options I have in that case, and finally what are the best scenarios to use? too many questions but I wish if you can help me to learn about it, finally what are the best option to send the final stream over internet using zixi, srt or other protocols, also please if possible a walkthrough your system with some explanation will be very helpful.
@@abdelfatahh4114 Sounds like I need to make a video on this, haha! To give you a quick and dirty answer, in order to connect a destination device (like a monitor, switcher, or router) that device would need to be able to receive an NDI stream. This is called "subscribing" to the stream. If the device is unable to do that natively, then a decoder is needed to get that NDI stream back to baseband video. Which is actually what I am doing with my pressbox in this video. I have a Birddog Studio to encode my remote camera in NDI (just like I did in my camera monitor video) and then at the truck I have a Birddoq Quad which is decoding the signal back to SDI - which then goes into my switcher. Like in the previous video, you see me using Ross Dashboard and Newtek's NDI Monitor software to "subscribe" to the NDI streams on the network. Well, there are hardware devices (kinda) that are able to do that too. I say kinda because really those devices are running software that allow them to subscribe to the NDI streams. Like Newtek's Tricaster... this may be considered 'hardware' but the switcher is still software based - which allows it to easily accept NDI streams. I hope this helps for now. I'll definitely plan on making a video around this :)
@@BroadcastBuddyTV thank you dear, a great reply from a great Engineer,. I still little bit confused why you need Ndi in remote production and you still need to decode them in your opvan, i think it is not worth to use Ndi to just save some cables, i saw some Ndi setup using Birddog and Dante with Tricaster but sometimes, the Switcher was only able to identify the Ndi stream from each camera after doing some restart, i saw before one production setup decided to disable the Birddog and connect directly the video signal to Tricaster via Sdi as old school
I was searching for something like this I can buy but could not find any. It would be great to make use of control as well. Are there any out of the box solutions? I think a great usecase is when you have a high speed fiber optic camera and you want to get data and power to it in one cable.
How many Amps is the 1000' SMPTE cable rated for? Do you know what AWG the copper in the SMPTE cable is? I also wouldn't want more than a couple amps on that cable unless its off the real. I did see you're previous comments on this question.
Maybe a latched IEC-C14 or PowerCON NAC3 connector would work better than a generic Edison connector? They both cannot easily get loose while being pulled accidentally, and they have smaller footprint thus making it possible to use smaller cases for this project.
Thank you for all your great content! What parts would you recommend to use if instead of a SMPTE cable you had to connect to both ends of a pre-installed SMPTE fiber with rack mounted connectors on both ends? I would like to reuse the pre-installed SMPTE fiber in the stadium for only data networking for NDI & Dante
I’m new and really didn’t catch what was connected.. it appears u connected two routers so my question what all info , data runs over that connection. Can u connect cameras as well thanks great video
I'm unsure of this solution... if someone who doesn't know mixes this up with a standard shed/HDX box is this going to fry the camera, or what happens if your CCU is trying to send power to your booth kit... will it or is there a handshake first? IMO it's not worth the risk unless you know it won't break anything in the case of a mixup. Why not put a tac cable and SJ wire in a tech flex braided sheathing and put that on the reel?
I can definitely see the concern and it may not be a great solution for everyone. In my scenario there's only three other engineers (in addition to me) who would ever be handling the insertion of SMPTE at the truck or handling the breakout boxes in general - so I wouldn't be worried about them confusing it for an HDX box - being that we don't have any haha. As for accidently plugging it into the Lemos on the truck for the CCUs, that very well could happen. It might be a good idea to put some red tape on the intended reel as a red flag to not use it for camera connections. Your suggestion of tac and SJ wire would also do the trick... I was just trying to work around what I had mostly on hand as a way to save some time and money :)
If I'm reading correctly, SMPTE-311 cables only have 4 x 20awg wire. I'm not sure this is a good idea power-wise and load-wise for cables of any length. 1-2 amps maximum.
311 Cables are rated for up to 600Vac, 10A. The Lemo connectors actually terminate with tying 2x of the 20awg wire together, making it closer to 1x 12-14awg x2... If that makes sense haha.
@@MrKricher Sorry for the confusion! The Lemo breakout connectors that I use in the video are already terminated with 18awg wires. The 4 conducts that get tied together are actually already done on the termination of the SMPTE 304 connectors on the SMPTE 311 cable that goes between the boxes - aka what is on the reel. I could have done a better job explaining that. Let me know if that makes sense. :)
@@BroadcastBuddyTV Fair enough. That was not clear on the video. The overall thing that concerns me about this though is using a cable to deliver a load it might not be designed to do. According to wiresizecalculator.net, even a load of 2 amps at 200 ft. requires a wire size of 10awg to avoid voltage drop. Did you measure for any voltage drop at the far end of your reel while it was under load? You also didn't mention if your SMPTE-311 cables had 20awg or 16awg wire. That type of information could be very important. I'm not trying to be a downer here. I enjoy your channel. I think you just have to be careful when recommending a home-brew idea like this. Maybe there is a reason you can't buy SMPTE-311 breakout cables with power plugs already attached.
@@MrKricher Understood. I was actually planning on going into the wiring details by explaining the diagram I made and provided in the description and then decided not to. I see now that I probably should have. To answer your question directly, the SMPTE 311 cable I used consists of two single-mode optical fibers, four 20 AWG (power) and two 24 AWG (control) tinned copper conductors. The breakout cable itself consists of two single-mode optical fibers, two 18 AWG (power), one 18 AWG (shield),and two 22 AWG (for control) tinned copper conductors. When I had measured the voltage under load with the 1000ft reel, there was a slight drop of 2v. I definitely don't have the specs in front of me, but I believe the most power intensive thing in the box is the Midas M32c, which is only 40W - so figure .333 amps and has a VAC acceptance of 100 - 240vac. But like you said, a lot of important info there! I'll definitely consider making a follow up video - but in the meantime when I get a chance I'll type up a little explanation and make it a pinned comment. Oh! And you're not a downer! This is awesome feedback!
Is running mains in this way a good idea with other devices using the same pins 304m pins for DC power not AC? seems like there's alot of potential for an issue if you're running in a mixed environment.
When Smpte 311M and Lemo 304 are used with CCU and Camera : there is no power in the cable until the CCU knows the camera is plugged, to avoid being electrocuted or discharged if the cable falls into a puddle. What is proposed in this video is clearly dangerous!
Great solution Ryan. I also have a similar problem. I need to connect a Sony 3100 camera in a remote location to its CCU without a LEMO cable (actually the cable is not long enough to cover the distance). Can I use such a breakout cable to connect the camera to its CCU? How can I provide the power for the camera?
Yes! Most cameras like this have the ability to be powered locally. So 2 stands of fiber and the CCU and camera are powered locally at their respective locations.
Hi, thank's for your great video! Do you know how it's possible to connect the audio mixer to the stagebox over the SMTPE connection? In your case mixer and stage box are on the same site but what if the mixer is at the other side of the SMTPE connection? Tried it but it's not possible to connect AES50 over the network switch...
unfortunately, unlike dante which runs on standard computer networking equipment, AES50 does not. It may use the same looking RJ45 connectors and Cat 6 Cables, but the protocol (think of it like the language it speaks) it uses is completely different. If i recall there are AES50 to fibre converters out there but are on the more pricey side, and you would require a converter either side of the fibre line.
just a question: If I were to do a Fiber & Power Breakout Box like this, I could add a sdi to fiber converter in that box and use it to extended a camera system that does not have a SMPTE system by default ( We use Sony PMW 300 K2`s - so would be very nice to have all in one cable to run). A 6 to 8 space rack at the truck and from there just these kind of boxes.
@@BroadcastBuddyTV was thinking to run mains (240v - European standard) up to the box and use the camera’s original power supply just like with an extension cord
Hi that looks very dangerous. You should avoid to do this . the SMPTE Fiber lemo are not made to connect 110V - 240V voltage straight . it is built to send a low test tension and when the full connection is detected the main power supply is activated and send the main voltage which can be indeed up to 600V but only when WHEN the LEMOS connector are ALREADy PLUGGED. the connector , could melt and cause fire is you try to reconnect the LEMO connector while the power supply is plugged before . Be careful !
And I forgot to say that SMPTE Hybrid Fiber can easily get damaged. with a to strong Voltage inside without a security system you can burn the cable and cause fire or be very dangerous for anybody in contact with the whole system.
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Hey guys! Thanks for checking out this video!
Just a quick reminder that this project was a custom solution to a niche problem that I was having and isn't mean as a be-all-and-end-all solution to extending fiber and power. When it comes to power there are factors you need to consider to determine what devices you can and cannot power with this method. My pressbox draws little current and therefore can get away with this. Something to keep in mind is that SMPTE 311 cables are rated for 600vac 10amp - which is the equivalent of running 18awg wire. Distance is also a factor as resistance comes into play. Please, always make sure you do your calculations before attempting anything like this involving power otherwise you can damage your gear.
I hope to make a part-two video to this (based on your feedback) going over how to determine your power requirements and how I did this for myself.
I found your channel 3 days ago and binge watched all of your videos. Please make more! Your information and passion about your work is unmatched!
Man this is a great idea! You might want to consider putting a 10 amp fuse or circuit breaker in the remote box just to protect the SMPTE cable from getting overloaded
Definitely wouldn't hurt, thanks for the suggestion 🙂
I dare you to pull more than one amp one those 22awg wires. 10amp would do nothing unfortunately
Awesome as always Ryan. We must be Doppelgängers I was working on something similar. The only difference is I was going to try and use powercon connectors so that they lock into place.
Keep up the good work man!!
Thank you so much, this is a great video.
For those new to Ndi, Can you Please explain more about your Ndi work flow and equipments used?
Sure! You should also check out my video on building an NDI camera monitor where I go over some of the basics: ua-cam.com/video/u9n95Lhc6UU/v-deo.html
In this workflow you'll need an NDI encoder (to get the baseband video to NDI) and a decoder (to get the NDI signal back to baseband video.) For this, I am using the Birddog Studio SDI to NDI Encoder at the remote location and the Birddog Quad NDI to SDI Decoder at the truck end.
@@BroadcastBuddyTV Thank for the reply, I already watched the video two times :), it is a great video but I need to get a big picture on how the devices are working together in Ndi work flow, I understand from you video that a single Birddog can be used to convert upto 4 HDSDI camera inputs into one NDI stream output over a single ethernet cable then that single cable will be connected to an ethernet switch, then from that switch you connect to your different devices and here I need to understand more, how I can connect monitors, vision mixers, video routers, recorders and how I configure them and what the options I have in that case, and finally what are the best scenarios to use? too many questions but I wish if you can help me to learn about it, finally what are the best option to send the final stream over internet using zixi, srt or other protocols, also please if possible a walkthrough your system with some explanation will be very helpful.
@@abdelfatahh4114 Sounds like I need to make a video on this, haha!
To give you a quick and dirty answer, in order to connect a destination device (like a monitor, switcher, or router) that device would need to be able to receive an NDI stream. This is called "subscribing" to the stream. If the device is unable to do that natively, then a decoder is needed to get that NDI stream back to baseband video. Which is actually what I am doing with my pressbox in this video. I have a Birddog Studio to encode my remote camera in NDI (just like I did in my camera monitor video) and then at the truck I have a Birddoq Quad which is decoding the signal back to SDI - which then goes into my switcher.
Like in the previous video, you see me using Ross Dashboard and Newtek's NDI Monitor software to "subscribe" to the NDI streams on the network. Well, there are hardware devices (kinda) that are able to do that too. I say kinda because really those devices are running software that allow them to subscribe to the NDI streams. Like Newtek's Tricaster... this may be considered 'hardware' but the switcher is still software based - which allows it to easily accept NDI streams.
I hope this helps for now. I'll definitely plan on making a video around this :)
@@BroadcastBuddyTV thank you dear, a great reply from a great Engineer,.
I still little bit confused why you need Ndi in remote production and you still need to decode them in your opvan, i think it is not worth to use Ndi to just save some cables, i saw some Ndi setup using Birddog and Dante with Tricaster but sometimes, the Switcher was only able to identify the Ndi stream from each camera after doing some restart, i saw before one production setup decided to disable the Birddog and connect directly the video signal to Tricaster via Sdi as old school
I was searching for something like this I can buy but could not find any. It would be great to make use of control as well. Are there any out of the box solutions? I think a great usecase is when you have a high speed fiber optic camera and you want to get data and power to it in one cable.
How many Amps is the 1000' SMPTE cable rated for? Do you know what AWG the copper in the SMPTE cable is? I also wouldn't want more than a couple amps on that cable unless its off the real. I did see you're previous comments on this question.
Maybe a latched IEC-C14 or PowerCON NAC3 connector would work better than a generic Edison connector? They both cannot easily get loose while being pulled accidentally, and they have smaller footprint thus making it possible to use smaller cases for this project.
Ooh, I like the PowerCon idea!
Thank you for all your great content!
What parts would you recommend to use if instead of a SMPTE cable you had to connect to both ends of a pre-installed SMPTE fiber with rack mounted connectors on both ends?
I would like to reuse the pre-installed SMPTE fiber in the stadium for only data networking for NDI & Dante
I’m new and really didn’t catch what was connected.. it appears u connected two routers so my question what all info , data runs over that connection. Can u connect cameras as well thanks great video
I'm unsure of this solution... if someone who doesn't know mixes this up with a standard shed/HDX box is this going to fry the camera, or what happens if your CCU is trying to send power to your booth kit... will it or is there a handshake first? IMO it's not worth the risk unless you know it won't break anything in the case of a mixup. Why not put a tac cable and SJ wire in a tech flex braided sheathing and put that on the reel?
I can definitely see the concern and it may not be a great solution for everyone. In my scenario there's only three other engineers (in addition to me) who would ever be handling the insertion of SMPTE at the truck or handling the breakout boxes in general - so I wouldn't be worried about them confusing it for an HDX box - being that we don't have any haha. As for accidently plugging it into the Lemos on the truck for the CCUs, that very well could happen. It might be a good idea to put some red tape on the intended reel as a red flag to not use it for camera connections.
Your suggestion of tac and SJ wire would also do the trick... I was just trying to work around what I had mostly on hand as a way to save some time and money :)
🔥
If I'm reading correctly, SMPTE-311 cables only have 4 x 20awg wire. I'm not sure this is a good idea power-wise and load-wise for cables of any length. 1-2 amps maximum.
311 Cables are rated for up to 600Vac, 10A. The Lemo connectors actually terminate with tying 2x of the 20awg wire together, making it closer to 1x 12-14awg x2... If that makes sense haha.
@@st99productions55 That makes sense but that's not what is shown on this video. He did not tie any conductors together.
@@MrKricher Sorry for the confusion! The Lemo breakout connectors that I use in the video are already terminated with 18awg wires. The 4 conducts that get tied together are actually already done on the termination of the SMPTE 304 connectors on the SMPTE 311 cable that goes between the boxes - aka what is on the reel.
I could have done a better job explaining that. Let me know if that makes sense. :)
@@BroadcastBuddyTV Fair enough. That was not clear on the video. The overall thing that concerns me about this though is using a cable to deliver a load it might not be designed to do. According to wiresizecalculator.net, even a load of 2 amps at 200 ft. requires a wire size of 10awg to avoid voltage drop. Did you measure for any voltage drop at the far end of your reel while it was under load? You also didn't mention if your SMPTE-311 cables had 20awg or 16awg wire. That type of information could be very important. I'm not trying to be a downer here. I enjoy your channel. I think you just have to be careful when recommending a home-brew idea like this. Maybe there is a reason you can't buy SMPTE-311 breakout cables with power plugs already attached.
@@MrKricher Understood. I was actually planning on going into the wiring details by explaining the diagram I made and provided in the description and then decided not to. I see now that I probably should have.
To answer your question directly, the SMPTE 311 cable I used consists of two single-mode optical fibers, four 20 AWG (power) and two 24 AWG (control) tinned copper conductors. The breakout cable itself consists of two single-mode optical fibers, two 18 AWG (power), one 18 AWG (shield),and two 22 AWG (for control) tinned copper conductors. When I had measured the voltage under load with the 1000ft reel, there was a slight drop of 2v. I definitely don't have the specs in front of me, but I believe the most power intensive thing in the box is the Midas M32c, which is only 40W - so figure .333 amps and has a VAC acceptance of 100 - 240vac.
But like you said, a lot of important info there! I'll definitely consider making a follow up video - but in the meantime when I get a chance I'll type up a little explanation and make it a pinned comment. Oh! And you're not a downer! This is awesome feedback!
Is running mains in this way a good idea with other devices using the same pins 304m pins for DC power not AC? seems like there's alot of potential for an issue if you're running in a mixed environment.
bmd uses 400V AC.
@@juri14111996 have you a reference for this as i have heard a different number.
When Smpte 311M and Lemo 304 are used with CCU and Camera : there is no power in the cable until the CCU knows the camera is plugged, to avoid being electrocuted or discharged if the cable falls into a puddle.
What is proposed in this video is clearly dangerous!
We are only passing 120v, but yes - should be advised to make sure the SMPTE is plugged in at both ends before connecting the source current.
Cool stuff. What I don't get is why you didn't built it inside the remote press box ? The top rail could host the plug.
Just for utility's sake. This way I can use it for the second unit, or other similar applications that aren't specific to that single press box :)
Great solution Ryan. I also have a similar problem. I need to connect a Sony 3100 camera in a remote location to its CCU without a LEMO cable (actually the cable is not long enough to cover the distance). Can I use such a breakout cable to connect the camera to its CCU? How can I provide the power for the camera?
Yes! Most cameras like this have the ability to be powered locally. So 2 stands of fiber and the CCU and camera are powered locally at their respective locations.
Hi, thank's for your great video! Do you know how it's possible to connect the audio mixer to the stagebox over the SMTPE connection? In your case mixer and stage box are on the same site but what if the mixer is at the other side of the SMTPE connection? Tried it but it's not possible to connect AES50 over the network switch...
To my knowledge, the only way to do this would be to get an inline AES50 extender. It wouldn't be compatible with transmission over SMPTE Fiber.
unfortunately, unlike dante which runs on standard computer networking equipment, AES50 does not. It may use the same looking RJ45 connectors and Cat 6 Cables, but the protocol (think of it like the language it speaks) it uses is completely different. If i recall there are AES50 to fibre converters out there but are on the more pricey side, and you would require a converter either side of the fibre line.
just a question: If I were to do a Fiber & Power Breakout Box like this, I could add a sdi to fiber converter in that box and use it to extended a camera system that does not have a SMPTE system by default ( We use Sony PMW 300 K2`s - so would be very nice to have all in one cable to run). A 6 to 8 space rack at the truck and from there just these kind of boxes.
As long as you're not under powered at the camera end, yes that should work just fine
@@BroadcastBuddyTV was thinking to run mains (240v - European standard) up to the box and use the camera’s original power supply just like with an extension cord
why not just add the connector to the panel of the van and the patch panel of the press box?
Hi! This way I can use the box between units and save some money. LEMO connects are expensive lol
Hi that looks very dangerous. You should avoid to do this . the SMPTE Fiber lemo are not made to connect 110V - 240V voltage straight . it is built to send a low test tension and when the full connection is detected the main power supply is activated and send the main voltage which can be indeed up to 600V but only when WHEN the LEMOS connector are ALREADy PLUGGED. the connector , could melt and cause fire is you try to reconnect the LEMO connector while the power supply is plugged before . Be careful !
And I forgot to say that SMPTE Hybrid Fiber can easily get damaged. with a to strong Voltage inside without a security system you can burn the cable and cause fire or be very dangerous for anybody in contact with the whole system.
How many watts can you pull from a single SMPTE/LEMO cable?
I'm guessing the press-box doesn't draw all that much, but also taking in account the enormous spool that might cause heat?
That depends on wire gauge and distance
@@MrKricher Well obviously, but I'm guessing most of these cables have about the same AWG? How much could you pull on a 200m for example