@@nicobruno9062 that's no longer true, they got a better system by now. But yes, the most common fix of cc only abilities to give assists was to just deal 1 true damage and heal it immediately. Electrocute doesn't specify damage anymore (other than thunder lords) so that's intended behavior.
@@rebull8262 If only there was 1 evidence of that per 1 000 000 claims, then we would have so much evidence for that being true, yet there is none, but there is proof of it dealing 0 proc dmg...
@@ConReesei would assume it either was a nice number but had armor or something so physical damage reduction or it has some kind of level/stat scaling for no reason
2 months ago for a patch or 2, in spectator mode you were able to see the hp of dying particles. That's when I recorded these clips, and it just confirms why e.g. Azir could kill Jayce E or Gnar could jump of Jayce E. I planned to make this video 2 months ago, but... I forgot about editing it... So here it is! Happy New Year x)!
@@gehtniemandenwasan9789 There is a certain attribute that makes them not passable with ghosted. Baron for example has this attribute aswell as many minions made from champion abilities.
I can clearly visualize Vandiril with a kitchen knife, about to stab a cake, with his madness spiraling out of control as he thinks everything around him is a minion
I think it's because when they were making it, they didn't actually know how to code (no offence to them they were just inexperienced). So to save time they probably got part of the minion code from elsewhere and used the hotbox detection part of it in everything else
@@andydamscus5243wait, can you ghost of yorick w, jarvan r, etc.? I never seen that, is it even possible? I think those object have some additional different properties then minions, despite being made of them, so it could not even break if you remove minion block
that's a mechanic. Because there is stuff that gives you 'ignore unit collision'. So, technically they could easily solve it if they gave that passive to every champion always and there you go. But nope, it's a mechanic unique to Ghost and some items.
Interesting that many of these are terrain based abilities. However I have a highlight i recorded where my Xerath Q's were showing several 9999s in a striaght line identical to the video.
riot champ designers have spoken in the past about using minions to get accurate hitboxes with abilities like vi q, jinx ult, etc. if i recall, there's nothing in league's code to detect enemy hitboxes on a portion of the map without another object nearby, and league's normal tic-rate makes some faster abilities phase through enemies instead of hitting them. so if you throw a super fast invisible enemy out before the spell goes off, the spell will be able to hit it accurately even if it's travelling faster than the server's tic-rate.
Actually, the reason for the separation of ingame objects, for example, Jayce's E, is mostly for better sync of coordinates of whoever passes through it and the animations of the separate objects, it allows better collision box control. This is also why you see that things like Yorick Cage is not 1 registered attackable object, but multiple. Specially with the addition of mechanics like wall breaking (Ornn E) which needs to identify which part of the wall to break, it's much simpler to create a group of objects and treat their interactions separately. This is the best method to dealing with the code. It's also objectively not coded like minions, some objects have player interactions, some don't, these properties are set separately from minions. (Jayce E-Q won't strike walls, but will strike minions and stop there).
@@mauer1 I doubt it's the minion code, more like an "entity" code, which then every projectile, minion and champion would inherit, but it's indeed probably really close to what the minion class looks like. Tbh I don't think it's a poor practice or that it show Rito's spaghetti code or whatever, but there are definitely misses in the implementation.
@@arahelis2038 its definitely one of the better things the programming does, its just how many slip ups there are in it that gives this look. League isn't remotely the game with the most bugs aswell, the problem is that it is the game with the biggest playerbase and so many programmers that are watching over the code it's bound to happen and it's bound to be found out.
@@mauer1 Quality over quantity in a nutshell. Sure, it's not the game with the most bugs, its just that most of the bugs in the game are really stupid and the programmers at riot are either too incompetent or the higher ups putting so many locks for things to be fixed correctly and on time (Which, being tencent, its probably both) Remember the cookie bug? That took idk how many hotfixes, and each hotfixed introduced a previous or new bug? Or bugs that were live since the first seasons to either this day or that it took so many years for something so simple to be fixed? Thats the point, Riot as a company just screams incompetence all over the place.
@@ignacioariellopez8491I doubt if you go to the riot offices you will see a majority of bad coders. The codebase of league reeks of technical debt. Most likely the code was created a certain way at season 1 (fresh code is always bad, probably bad practices too) and then the product had to evolve to handle more cases that it was not meant to in the first place. All of this is causing the spaghetti itself, a year of features adds a year worth of technical debt
This makes sense on a coding perspective though. Making it a minion or a unit allows you to "kill" it with a "dying animation". That makes the coding easier. As long as you hide the damage, it would act the same.
Yeah, I would imagine that they would all be units or some sort of base rather than being particularly a minion, even minions would inherit from the base class
Maybe there's a higher level class that minions, ability walls, champion's minions inherit from. Like a base class that handles health and entity removal if health becomes 0. Cause I did something similar before when I was doing game development.
Rioters have mentioned this in the past(it was teemo's before most of the time), one that comes to mind is Phlox mentioning why he couldn't make neeko transform into yoricks w and it had to do with how wierdly structured and sripted it was(don't remember exactly but it was like 4 minions making a square and then many minion making a circle etc)
I think the funniest thing about the first clip was the amount of XP it gave. He went from barely over level 6, to over half way from 7 to 8. That's an absurd thing to be able to abuse every 60 seconds.
My take is that riots codebase is based off of inheritance. And they have used "minion" as a base class in object oriented programming. Or perhaps even an "entity" and passed those properties to basicly everything. An entity has hp armor res etc. Thus minions inherhit those properties from the entity class and so on. Thus abilities towers, fountains and vision shrooms etc are all "minions"
On point! Though it's more likely that the base abstract object is Entity and minions use this abstract blueprint at the same level as all these other things
yes but why has an entity hp? you just need a bool 'alive'. This seems that they wrote the minion code first and used it as a parent class, which is very bad design.
@@simonmuller4564 yeah that's a great point. Though it doesn't mean that you can't give entity hp, they might prefer it to be that way for some reason, or changing the hierarchy of inheritance is risky. Though I'd prefer entity to have hp, seems very flexible
this is actually a perfectly normal solution for things like this! it's weird that people act like it's not. it's done in plenty of other games too. Edit: things like this are a balance of like. how difficult they are to implement, how many bugs arise with them, how much issue fully replacing the system would cause, balancing latency, etc. etc. etc. like maybe this isn't the always 100% correct choice or whatever, but it doesn't bug that often and the bugs are usually pretty minor, so fully replacing the system wouldn't make much sense. it might seem weird to keep such a strange system in the game, but game design, especially with a small team (like the one riot started with) is often a lot of strange workarounds to problems. they're a big team now, but the workarounds still work, so why would they put in the work to change it, yk?
Yes and no, Id say it normal to have a base class for things like this, sure. But to code it as a minion specifically is weird, or rather that they have stuff that at least retains minion behaviour What they should have is a base class with no inherent minion behaviour
If we could take a peak at the workings of Wild Rift, where they remade league from the ground up (well using tencents pre-existing moba engine based on Unity) I bet it isn't built in the same way. Games doing this doesn't make it the best implementation. It's a "this works, ship it" kinda thing from old game publishing being grandfathered into games as a service at the end of that era.
@@InsanitiesBrother and this game was made by a team of like 5 people in 2009. it's worked like this since then, and it's still working, with occasional bugs. it's perfectly reasonable to keep this implementation.
I have to imagine this is less "everything is coded as a minion" and more "everything is coded as an entity with health"? That old clip of Azir getting *gold* from killing Jayce's E is pretty wild, but the more recent examples seem to be inline with that idea. Also I wonder why Yorick's W has some entity in its center? Is it possible that all the entities that make up his W have a timed death, but the one in the center is there to be an auto attackable target, and kills the others when it dies?
Reminds me of when i discovered that destroying wards counts as CS xD Also my guess for this is that not everything is coded as a minion, but minions and everything else is coded under the same category which is something like "not champions" and all of them have same property Also yesterday when me and my friend played, he popped trinket to see something behind the wall, fiddle ult there and found out i was anivias wall
I think that "has a health bar" is more precise. You would expect for player-generated terrain to be, well, terrain without a health, but I think that it would mess with static terrain. Also, you need it to be destroyable for the sake of, for example, Ornn. At the same time, AFAIR Qyiana's ult doesn't work on player-made terrain
Vandiril I just wanna say thank you for posting this video. It was really hard to convince my parents that I was actually yellow one eyed midget. But by posting this video you have given me concrete evidence as my genetic coding written by riot games declares otherwise. Thank you for your service to this community
They aren't minions, they are non-permanent objects that interact with players. The health numbers are probably auto generated based on the object type even though some objects (like walls) are indestructible by players.
This reminds me of a very old guide I watched on youtube on how to make custom skill animations in the Warcraft 3 editor and they used a random creep as a ferry to rotate a vanilla animation and turn it into a skillshot projectile.
Programmatically it does make sense, I don't think it's actual minions but some kind of abstract class minions inherit from but also all other entities on the map
Ziggs bombs being coded as minions surprised me when I was going through replays. I posted about it on reddit and got dismissed even though its still not a good coding practice and created most of LoL's weird bugs in the past like Thresh Lantern intercepting skillshots
In object oriented programming, we have what's called an abstraction. They most likely have an abstract blueprint, "Entity", and different objects are extended to this abstract blueprint, like minions or player or whatever and they all have/inherit code from "Entity"
Not as a minion but as a "structure" like how Warcraft would do everything that wasn't part of the map at start. That's probably also why it is not being affected by spells and stuff similarly to how structures can function differently.
they probably just instantiate the ability entities with a really large hp where you would never be able to do that much damage normally, but the functions of the entity class should work the same
This has always been the case. The code function they use to spawn a lot of terrain (I.e. Anivia W, J4 R, etc) as well as many missiles (I.e. Gragas Q) is named BBSpawnMinion
it common practice in game engines to have a primitive object that represents anything that can be added to the scene as an entity, my guess is that this object has a method `kill` which deals 999999 damage to the entity to remove it from the scene and a developer used that method for removing constructs instead of manually removing it from the scene which is why it was dying like a minion
This is a common practice in programming old games, they create a unit with sprite and lifetime to create objects with effects in the scene, it works the same way in Ragnarok online
for peoples talking about spaghetti. every entity in the game have same behavior. has hp, can take damage, destroy on hp reach 0. isn't every entity is coded like mininos. they're all entities, and minions are coded like entities too.
Technically, almost every entity is coded as the minion (class, probably? Never touched Java or whatever they are using) There's not an entity class that has all those attributes, the minion class does. And the minion "class" is used as a base for every other entity (Has hp, takes damage, destroy when hp = 0 and probably a few more) and they just add or remove explicitly things depending on what it is they are trying to accomplish with such new entity. Basically, inheritance. Why would they choose the minion class for inheritance? I have no fucking clue.
I was a map creator of Warcraft III in around 2008-2013. This is how effects were made back then, Dota1 had a lots, in the early making Riot even admitted that they built this game based on Warcraft 3 engine before they had their own. While watching this, I was wondering about Dota2 if they also used old mechanism on their game as well
We were doing this with Warcraft 3 Map editor, we used to call them dummy units, and with League, since you have such an extended access to the engine compared to Warcraft 3, using dummy units to do stuff like this makes it very easy and fast and actually allows for more control at times. This isn't a bad way to code, depending on how well the units are optimized, they could also be simple objects acting like normal units in order to be more efficient as they just contain an empty pool to throw data in so they can become whatever the effect of the spell you are casting into on the fly, that makes them adaptable and optimized af which is why they still use this method as its limitations are very low/small and most of the time insignificant.
There was a time where Thresh's lantern disappearing was coded as a minion death with over a million hit points which meant any nearby Trundle wss instantly fully healed
It is kinda common to treat some objects as entities so that interactions with other mechanics are easily implemented and you don't waste resouces by creating a lot of lines of code for specific behaviors. For example you can treat every breakable wall as an entity with a tag called "terrain", give them unbearable amounts of armor, MR and high HP; and make abilities that destroy terrain make 100.000 true damage to entities with "Terrain" tag. Easy fix, don't have to overdevelop a game. The downside is that by not giving distinct entities/objects a distinct role in the coding, these stuffs becomes vulnerable to bugs when future mechanics are implemented that interacts over the same 3 base systems that you base everything of.
Riot's code is spaghetti, this we know is true. What we didn't emphasize, was that the minion coding was the garlic bread that made it a whole meal.
once i said to someone that rito code is sphagetti
but that person choose to defend that meatball is flat
thus that is the end of the conversation
billlion dollar company everyone
Lets be honest. Who will bring u this dish? Morde or viego?
☝🤓
You can just type Karthus ult btw
I fear the day riot changes something in the minions code and suddenly azir R damages turrets, yorick W steals dragons and walls deal true damage
Well tenically anivia wall do damage
1 true damage, and you can proc electrocute with wall. I dont know if it still in game
@@nicobruno9062 that's no longer true, they got a better system by now.
But yes, the most common fix of cc only abilities to give assists was to just deal 1 true damage and heal it immediately.
Electrocute doesn't specify damage anymore (other than thunder lords) so that's intended behavior.
@@nicobruno9062Trundle could do that too lol, I think his is still in the game
Tryndamere can auto twice and press W for electrocute, it just requires 3 instances of interaction to proc electrocute.
@@rebull8262 If only there was 1 evidence of that per 1 000 000 claims, then we would have so much evidence for that being true, yet there is none, but there is proof of it dealing 0 proc dmg...
imagine they change something and briar starts attacking walls
briar:THEYRE IN THE WALLS
In the LN she eats anything that comes out from the hole in her cell, IIRC the whole was call starts with G and ends with Y, so G___y Hole
She can hear the rats scraping away inside the walls, the termites, the BACTERIA.
@@Messier1071 suddenly attack on titan
@@Little_Lepus💀💀
They called me crazy for saying Yorick wall has interactions that would only work if it was a minion.
Does that mean neeko could disgise as Yorick W?
Like what?
@@IsolatePlz canceling self mobility boots on cast
You still crazy
For example?
It's interesting that everything else dies to normal true damage numbers, meanwhile Kalista spear at 1:41 "mmyes 904,977 physical damage"
What a weird number too, it's not prime it's not something special in binary it's just weird
Obviously because of 200 years of collective experience
I hope it willm take less than 200 years until people stop using this unfunny meme@@Klusio19
@@ConReesei would assume it either was a nice number but had armor or something so physical damage reduction or it has some kind of level/stat scaling for no reason
Now lets test if u can survive it
2 months ago for a patch or 2, in spectator mode you were able to see the hp of dying particles.
That's when I recorded these clips, and it just confirms why e.g. Azir could kill Jayce E or Gnar could jump of Jayce E.
I planned to make this video 2 months ago, but... I forgot about editing it...
So here it is! Happy New Year x)!
If it is coded as minions why cant we go through them with ghost or ghosting effect of items like pd?
@@gehtniemandenwasan9789probably some special code to block this
@@gehtniemandenwasan9789 probably the minions have a code to disable his collision when colliding with a character with ghost
@@gehtniemandenwasan9789 minions can be coded as "walls", so ghost doesn't work.
@@gehtniemandenwasan9789 There is a certain attribute that makes them not passable with ghosted. Baron for example has this attribute aswell as many minions made from champion abilities.
I can clearly visualize Vandiril with a kitchen knife, about to stab a cake, with his madness spiraling out of control as he thinks everything around him is a minion
Stabs cake. +22G.
we can't rule that out
Ah yes, the humble minion, the single indivisible building block of the universe, the God particle
The atoms of league
someone has to make a movie out of this! imagine viktor zooming in so deep he sees minions everywhere
Ohh that is why they dont fix minion block
At this point there is no knowing how much of the game would break because of it
Fuck, now i have to think through which terrain you could probably ghost under certain circumstances... well no sleep tonight.
I think it's because when they were making it, they didn't actually know how to code (no offence to them they were just inexperienced). So to save time they probably got part of the minion code from elsewhere and used the hotbox detection part of it in everything else
@@andydamscus5243wait, can you ghost of yorick w, jarvan r, etc.? I never seen that, is it even possible? I think those object have some additional different properties then minions, despite being made of them, so it could not even break if you remove minion block
that's a mechanic. Because there is stuff that gives you 'ignore unit collision'.
So, technically they could easily solve it if they gave that passive to every champion always and there you go.
But nope, it's a mechanic unique to Ghost and some items.
So Im a minion?
always have been
No, you are actually AiHeroClient*
Based on your playstyle, yes.
Joke, happy new year mate.
At this point it wouldn't even be surprising if the walls were made from minions
Orn walls are
Attack on titans vibes
@@orfridman10titan minions💀
wasnt there a time where gp could kill walls with barrles?
Shingeki no minion !
yorick's wall being made of minions kind of makes sense cause he is all about undead and ghosts
The extra invisible minion in the center is weird though.
For w-at is it used ?
@@Ebikoauto attacks from enemies to break it
@@Ebiko it does a 0 damage attack on enemies caught inside so yorick can get an assist if he traps them but doesn't deal damage.
@@thebaddestguy cause thats easier to finesse into the mess of spaghetti then just making it give an assist xD
@@Ebikomakes sense urgots w gets crazy when inside yoricks wall
"Oh wait, it was all Armor stand all this time?"
Riot: Always has been
This a Minecraft joke?
@@hayond656 yes
Jayce: "So its all minions?"
Azir: "Always has been"
Interesting that many of these are terrain based abilities. However I have a highlight i recorded where my Xerath Q's were showing several 9999s in a striaght line identical to the video.
Yep, this is a good example!
10 years ago tryndamere E could kill minions from Xerath Q:
ua-cam.com/video/w2oO70ocSfU/v-deo.html
@@Vandiril How many of these obscure and specific 10 year old videos do you just have on hand as supporting evidence?
riot champ designers have spoken in the past about using minions to get accurate hitboxes with abilities like vi q, jinx ult, etc. if i recall, there's nothing in league's code to detect enemy hitboxes on a portion of the map without another object nearby, and league's normal tic-rate makes some faster abilities phase through enemies instead of hitting them. so if you throw a super fast invisible enemy out before the spell goes off, the spell will be able to hit it accurately even if it's travelling faster than the server's tic-rate.
@@Bellicosy To be fair, that bug was a pretty big deal at the time iirc. That's basically the first thing I thought of when I saw the title.
@@Bellicosy Honestly there would be a lot more here for examples, youtube purged billions of videos they deemed "abandoned" by channels.
Actually, the reason for the separation of ingame objects, for example, Jayce's E, is mostly for better sync of coordinates of whoever passes through it and the animations of the separate objects, it allows better collision box control. This is also why you see that things like Yorick Cage is not 1 registered attackable object, but multiple. Specially with the addition of mechanics like wall breaking (Ornn E) which needs to identify which part of the wall to break, it's much simpler to create a group of objects and treat their interactions separately. This is the best method to dealing with the code. It's also objectively not coded like minions, some objects have player interactions, some don't, these properties are set separately from minions. (Jayce E-Q won't strike walls, but will strike minions and stop there).
this just means that they all inherit the base minion code.
@@mauer1 I doubt it's the minion code, more like an "entity" code, which then every projectile, minion and champion would inherit, but it's indeed probably really close to what the minion class looks like.
Tbh I don't think it's a poor practice or that it show Rito's spaghetti code or whatever, but there are definitely misses in the implementation.
@@arahelis2038 its definitely one of the better things the programming does, its just how many slip ups there are in it that gives this look.
League isn't remotely the game with the most bugs aswell, the problem is that it is the game with the biggest playerbase and so many programmers that are watching over the code it's bound to happen and it's bound to be found out.
@@mauer1 Quality over quantity in a nutshell. Sure, it's not the game with the most bugs, its just that most of the bugs in the game are really stupid and the programmers at riot are either too incompetent or the higher ups putting so many locks for things to be fixed correctly and on time (Which, being tencent, its probably both)
Remember the cookie bug? That took idk how many hotfixes, and each hotfixed introduced a previous or new bug? Or bugs that were live since the first seasons to either this day or that it took so many years for something so simple to be fixed? Thats the point, Riot as a company just screams incompetence all over the place.
@@ignacioariellopez8491I doubt if you go to the riot offices you will see a majority of bad coders. The codebase of league reeks of technical debt. Most likely the code was created a certain way at season 1 (fresh code is always bad, probably bad practices too) and then the product had to evolve to handle more cases that it was not meant to in the first place.
All of this is causing the spaghetti itself, a year of features adds a year worth of technical debt
Azir released almost 10 years ago. Holy shit!
And i remember when he was added like yesterda,
I started noticing this in replays a few months ago and had no idea that it was such an old... feature?....
This makes sense on a coding perspective though. Making it a minion or a unit allows you to "kill" it with a "dying animation". That makes the coding easier. As long as you hide the damage, it would act the same.
Minion is similar to Actor in UE
Yeah, I would imagine that they would all be units or some sort of base rather than being particularly a minion, even minions would inherit from the base class
@@reznal True we actually dont know all layers of abstraction
Dang it, that's why they refuse to remove winions body block!
Idk what language they use to code this, but for sure the paradigm is Minion Oriented Programming
The Summoner Lore ❌
The Minion Lore ✅
Maybe there's a higher level class that minions, ability walls, champion's minions inherit from. Like a base class that handles health and entity removal if health becomes 0. Cause I did something similar before when I was doing game development.
Yeah, actually that class should be "Entity" or smth like that.
Rioters have mentioned this in the past(it was teemo's before most of the time), one that comes to mind is Phlox mentioning why he couldn't make neeko transform into yoricks w and it had to do with how wierdly structured and sripted it was(don't remember exactly but it was like 4 minions making a square and then many minion making a circle etc)
Fun fact if you play Illaoi in Arena and then use your E on Cameo Sett you can also see him for what he truly is.
And that is?
@@zerkret8847le minion
@@zerkret8847it might seem crazy what I'm bout to say
@@zerkret8847 You: When you see your own d**k. (Sett cameo)
Her/Illaoi: What she actually sees. (Illaoi E)
bro built suspense for information
Crazy how Riot aren't based in Italy with all the spaghetti they're cooking.
I think the funniest thing about the first clip was the amount of XP it gave. He went from barely over level 6, to over half way from 7 to 8. That's an absurd thing to be able to abuse every 60 seconds.
1:45 who knew that minions were coded as minions 😮
Minions^(2)
This upgrades minion/creep block from a Video game Lingo to a scientific Law of motion.
When they realized the Walls in AOT where made out of Titans
lmaoo thought the same thing, underrated comment
My take is that riots codebase is based off of inheritance. And they have used "minion" as a base class in object oriented programming. Or perhaps even an "entity" and passed those properties to basicly everything. An entity has hp armor res etc. Thus minions inherhit those properties from the entity class and so on. Thus abilities towers, fountains and vision shrooms etc are all "minions"
On point! Though it's more likely that the base abstract object is Entity and minions use this abstract blueprint at the same level as all these other things
yes but why has an entity hp? you just need a bool 'alive'. This seems that they wrote the minion code first and used it as a parent class, which is very bad design.
n @simonmuller4564 It has hp so they can die and despawn. Body block, and if allowed they can be targeted by autoattacks / spells the same as minions.
@@simonmuller4564 yeah that's a great point. Though it doesn't mean that you can't give entity hp, they might prefer it to be that way for some reason, or changing the hierarchy of inheritance is risky. Though I'd prefer entity to have hp, seems very flexible
Azir is 9 years old? F*ck, that makes me feel old, he still feels like a new champ to me.
this is actually a perfectly normal solution for things like this! it's weird that people act like it's not. it's done in plenty of other games too.
Edit: things like this are a balance of like. how difficult they are to implement, how many bugs arise with them, how much issue fully replacing the system would cause, balancing latency, etc. etc. etc.
like maybe this isn't the always 100% correct choice or whatever, but it doesn't bug that often and the bugs are usually pretty minor, so fully replacing the system wouldn't make much sense.
it might seem weird to keep such a strange system in the game, but game design, especially with a small team (like the one riot started with) is often a lot of strange workarounds to problems. they're a big team now, but the workarounds still work, so why would they put in the work to change it, yk?
Thank you!
Yes and no, Id say it normal to have a base class for things like this, sure. But to code it as a minion specifically is weird, or rather that they have stuff that at least retains minion behaviour
What they should have is a base class with no inherent minion behaviour
Yeah, locust units have always been used in Warcraft 3 for example.
If we could take a peak at the workings of Wild Rift, where they remade league from the ground up (well using tencents pre-existing moba engine based on Unity) I bet it isn't built in the same way.
Games doing this doesn't make it the best implementation. It's a "this works, ship it" kinda thing from old game publishing being grandfathered into games as a service at the end of that era.
@@InsanitiesBrother and this game was made by a team of like 5 people in 2009. it's worked like this since then, and it's still working, with occasional bugs. it's perfectly reasonable to keep this implementation.
Even Nunu is coded as a minion
I have to imagine this is less "everything is coded as a minion" and more "everything is coded as an entity with health"? That old clip of Azir getting *gold* from killing Jayce's E is pretty wild, but the more recent examples seem to be inline with that idea.
Also I wonder why Yorick's W has some entity in its center? Is it possible that all the entities that make up his W have a timed death, but the one in the center is there to be an auto attackable target, and kills the others when it dies?
Yorick W probably has the middlepart as a reference to where spawn the others
@@zakanyimen Maybe, though you'd expect Jarvan ult to also have a center entity then, and it doesn't seem to.
@@SBroproductions because j4 himself is the center.
"It was all minions?"
"Always has been."
Reminds me of when i discovered that destroying wards counts as CS xD
Also my guess for this is that not everything is coded as a minion, but minions and everything else is coded under the same category which is something like "not champions" and all of them have same property
Also yesterday when me and my friend played, he popped trinket to see something behind the wall, fiddle ult there and found out i was anivias wall
I think that "has a health bar" is more precise. You would expect for player-generated terrain to be, well, terrain without a health, but I think that it would mess with static terrain. Also, you need it to be destroyable for the sake of, for example, Ornn. At the same time, AFAIR Qyiana's ult doesn't work on player-made terrain
@@adolphin9348 Qiyana's R does work on J4's R, same for Vayne's E on his ult
I love you for using the dominion music. It’s been so many years but it’s memory is still alive. I miss it
Vandiril I just wanna say thank you for posting this video. It was really hard to convince my parents that I was actually yellow one eyed midget. But by posting this video you have given me concrete evidence as my genetic coding written by riot games declares otherwise. Thank you for your service to this community
"You are a minion, and you are a minion and you are minion... Everyone is a minion"
They aren't minions, they are non-permanent objects that interact with players. The health numbers are probably auto generated based on the object type even though some objects (like walls) are indestructible by players.
Coded like minions*** can u read my guy..
This reminds me of a very old guide I watched on youtube on how to make custom skill animations in the Warcraft 3 editor and they used a random creep as a ferry to rotate a vanilla animation and turn it into a skillshot projectile.
I just had a throwback while listening to the bgm I remembered the cyphers made by content creators back then
everything coded as a minion.. everyone gangster until the tower starts moving
-So it's all a minion?
-Always has been.
Programmatically it does make sense, I don't think it's actual minions but some kind of abstract class minions inherit from but also all other entities on the map
"Wait... it's all minions?!"
"Always has been"
"It's all minions?"🌍🚶♂🤺 "Always has been"
Ziggs bombs being coded as minions surprised me when I was going through replays. I posted about it on reddit and got dismissed even though its still not a good coding practice and created most of LoL's weird bugs in the past like Thresh Lantern intercepting skillshots
I think Orianna's Q worked like this as well :D I remember seeing it on my replay
A programming definition of "if it works don't touch it"
spaghetti code
In object oriented programming, we have what's called an abstraction. They most likely have an abstract blueprint, "Entity", and different objects are extended to this abstract blueprint, like minions or player or whatever and they all have/inherit code from "Entity"
Not as a minion but as a "structure" like how Warcraft would do everything that wasn't part of the map at start. That's probably also why it is not being affected by spells and stuff similarly to how structures can function differently.
Thats amazing how even things like that are not systemised and every minion entity has different hp
they probably just instantiate the ability entities with a really large hp where you would never be able to do that much damage normally, but the functions of the entity class should work the same
gotta love the inconsistency in the damages taken by the champion made structures
Do not worry. Those terrains are built from the bodies of all the killed minions. Nothing is wasted!
"Why is my game lagging when someone cast a spell"
"Because he is casting 10 000 minions"
"Wait, its all MINION?😮"
"...always has been. 🔫😐"
behold: 200 years of collective game design experience
The dominion music in the background makes me nostalgic.
Wait.. its all minions??
Riot: Always has been..
All fun and game until nasus start stacking his Q on anivia's wall
probably because Malz used the minion code... and every champ after used Malz's code
Playerbase: Wait, it's all minions?
Riot: always has been
Your hand was also a minion.
Your hand: No not again! Don't let that near me!!
And the minions are still in the alpha version of League.
Random target changes etc.
It makes sense. Wow did that for their effects too they spawn an invisible npc for like a fire object and if you're too close to it it deals damage
This has always been the case. The code function they use to spawn a lot of terrain (I.e. Anivia W, J4 R, etc) as well as many missiles (I.e. Gragas Q) is named BBSpawnMinion
Can't believe I've been minion blocked all these years
it common practice in game engines to have a primitive object that represents anything that can be added to the scene as an entity, my guess is that this object has a method `kill` which deals 999999 damage to the entity to remove it from the scene and a developer used that method for removing constructs instead of manually removing it from the scene which is why it was dying like a minion
imagine bard ult made them invincible and outlife their deathtiming, making them just stay there for the rest of the game
This is a common practice in programming old games, they create a unit with sprite and lifetime to create objects with effects in the scene, it works the same way in Ragnarok online
This is like that cake meme all over again 😅
I like to imagine the inheritance tree they must have as the Shoggoth
They're in the spells... THEY'RE IN THE GODDAMN SPELLS
That's why minions sometimes feel like a literal wall.. Now I get it
1:45 wait so you are telling me that minions are CODED AS MINIONS damn that blows me away.
this is like finding out the walls are made of titans
The dominion theme hits hard
It looks more like minions and these effects share some code, which is a healthy practice when it’s done correctly
Remember when bushes were just a grid of invisible teemos?
that's why minion block is necessary
just wait til they get out the invisible teemos
Vandiril: Wait it’s all minions?
Riot games: Always has been 🔫
Your hand was also a minion.
Your hand: No not again! Don't let that thing near me!!
me: wait..... everything is minion?
Rito: always has been
Today I saw Ivern's bushes with a health bar just like Pix on an ARAM
Damn the spaghetti isn’t even boiled
for peoples talking about spaghetti.
every entity in the game have same behavior.
has hp, can take damage, destroy on hp reach 0.
isn't every entity is coded like mininos. they're all entities, and minions are coded like entities too.
Technically, almost every entity is coded as the minion (class, probably? Never touched Java or whatever they are using) There's not an entity class that has all those attributes, the minion class does. And the minion "class" is used as a base for every other entity (Has hp, takes damage, destroy when hp = 0 and probably a few more) and they just add or remove explicitly things depending on what it is they are trying to accomplish with such new entity. Basically, inheritance. Why would they choose the minion class for inheritance? I have no fucking clue.
I was a map creator of Warcraft III in around 2008-2013. This is how effects were made back then, Dota1 had a lots, in the early making Riot even admitted that they built this game based on Warcraft 3 engine before they had their own. While watching this, I was wondering about Dota2 if they also used old mechanism on their game as well
Nasus is gonna be happy when he hears this
these abilities even show as multiple red dots on the minimap just like normal minions.
that's the reason they don't want to touch the minions.
We were doing this with Warcraft 3 Map editor, we used to call them dummy units, and with League, since you have such an extended access to the engine compared to Warcraft 3, using dummy units to do stuff like this makes it very easy and fast and actually allows for more control at times.
This isn't a bad way to code, depending on how well the units are optimized, they could also be simple objects acting like normal units in order to be more efficient as they just contain an empty pool to throw data in so they can become whatever the effect of the spell you are casting into on the fly, that makes them adaptable and optimized af which is why they still use this method as its limitations are very low/small and most of the time insignificant.
Imagine they change something and suddenly yorick ghouls start one shotting the terrain
There was a time where Thresh's lantern disappearing was coded as a minion death with over a million hit points which meant any nearby Trundle wss instantly fully healed
Honestly pretty cool. Means they just build algos for a singular data structure. Pretty cool.
Actually makes perfect sense for Yorick, since his wall is made of tormented souls anyway
May this be the reason of minion blocks existence?
Even Minions are Minions
It is kinda common to treat some objects as entities so that interactions with other mechanics are easily implemented and you don't waste resouces by creating a lot of lines of code for specific behaviors. For example you can treat every breakable wall as an entity with a tag called "terrain", give them unbearable amounts of armor, MR and high HP; and make abilities that destroy terrain make 100.000 true damage to entities with "Terrain" tag. Easy fix, don't have to overdevelop a game.
The downside is that by not giving distinct entities/objects a distinct role in the coding, these stuffs becomes vulnerable to bugs when future mechanics are implemented that interacts over the same 3 base systems that you base everything of.