I've been running social encounters wrong for 5 years!? D&D 5E
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
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There's an actual system for social encounters in the DMG and nobody uses it.
My patreon: / zeebashew
PAGES 244 & 245 of the DMG!
Do you have a Twitter Zee?
Isn't that already done this way in 3.5? At least I know it that way....
@@Rabijeel Not sure about 3.5 proper... Pathfinder is very different though. Diplomacy shifts their attitude (on a 5-notch scale), Bluff gets them to agree to a one-off thing, Intimidation temporarily makes them pretend to like you. Then how much they like you determines if they'll help (except for Bluff which is magic mind control).
... I feels like this system may slow things down some. I would use it but probably modify it some.
Thought he was gonna say brought to you by among us
Man the animation quality in this one's really up there. Lot of subtle slight head turns.
What's funny is I literally just found out about these rules last night while looking up something regarding intimidation.
Oo I didn’t think I would see you here 👀
I feel like I see you everyone now
man every friday omg
so much beard swinging
What are you doing here? 👀
Neighbours trying to summon an elder evil: uuooooOoOoOOOOOAAAAAAA
Zee: "Ugh there they go again, really hard to record with this noise."
Insert Zargon getting revived noise
Just need some erratic hammering
@@edendemarlo I was just coming to make this comment
@@SkylerLinux you can have the next hour after im done
This really seems like a much better way of doing things rather than just a roll. This is a quite helpful
The way I do it is that instead of basing off a roll, I ask what the player wants to say or how to convince, and I use that as a base for their DC. If the speech they gave was amazing, the DC is lower because they are basically already persuaded. If they gave a really bad one, the DC is higher because your credibility already sucks and they are gonna be much harder to convince. If it's good or bad enough, I don't even ask for a roll, I just let the NPC do the talking.
Had a DM who was like:
Player: I want to buy food.
DM: Roll a d20
Player: Wait... Why? I mean, why and which attribute/skill am I checking?
DM: JUST ROLL A D20!
Player: *rolls* Nat 1.
DM: The merchant becomes super angry at you and stabs you in the eye. You die.
5e was always like that. People often thinks rolls can save them too much. Thats because of 3e skill system which was just that rolling and get slaves because 50+ deception !!!
@@rey1242 That's just a shit DM. I had one like that too.
DM: The person that looks like the Employer comes into the tavern.
Me: I walk up to talk to him.
DM: Roll Charisma
Me: Do I get to say anything first?
DM: No
Me: Rolls 14
DM: You have to speak in broken common.
Me: What, why?
DM: Because that's what you rolled.
For context, that night, the DC to succeed anything, from walking down the stairs to speaking normally was 15. On top of that, we were still figuring stuff out, so we didn't add our modifiers. In other words, you had to roll 15 or higher without mods to succeed any basic interaction.
Just have this the thousandth like. Satisfying
One of my favourite moments in the original Sherlock stories is when Sherlock notices the betting page of a paper is popping out the pocket of a guy he wants information from (a very hostile guy at that)- so he comes up with this story about a bet he needs to win and boom the guy is hooked and spills all the beans. It's so simple but such a fun and smart way to take advantage of someones flaws!
Yeah cold reading is what I always picture on insight checks. As compared to hot reading with wisdom checks.
@@ratholin I don't recall how accurate it is to the books, but in the Granada series,' Blue Carbuncle episode, at one point they are trying to inquire from a goose salesman where a particular lot of geese came from and the salesman is belligerent and tells them to piss off. So Holmes makes up a story with Watson that they are having a bet as to whether the goose was city bred or country bred, and as soon as the salesman hears it's a bet and that Holmes is going to lose the bet, he shares every single detail he can to rub it in to Holmes that he lost the "bet". The joke kicker is that after Holmes and Watson walk away with smirks on their face, the seller yells at Holmes that he lost the bet and has to "pay the man now", and Watson smirks at Holmes as Holmes begrudgingly pays Watson off for the fake "bet" so they can keep up the pretense.
@@BTheBlindRef Yup that's pretty much how it goes in the original! Sometimes I noticed that Granada would adapt it word for word so it's probably very similar if not the same!
This is cool, but it has the same common issue of a lot of things: If the DM described the page sticking out of the pocket when they described the NPC, then the player will automatically know the page is important, but if the DM didn't of course then the player doesn't know it exists. There are ways around this (think up multiple clues, make the clues' utility ambiguous, gate them off behind an insight or other skill check), but I find things can get awkward.
@@joshuawinestock9998 Insight or perhaps Perception to see the page at all perhaps?
Our DM once had us engage in an impromptu rap battle with a Lich. That’s what I think of when I hear “social encounter”.
omfg
How... Why... What? A rap battle? With a litch?
"You say "Vecna"! I say, "Heck, Nah"! Vec! Nah! Heck! Nah!"
"You said you bring and offering of bread, but that doesn't sway a lord of the undead. Instead it has to be said, step up to me and my ghouls are getting fed" So like this?
I heard that story once before, was indeed a marvelous spectacle
It's fun to see so many people in the comments having a similar experience to Zee "Wait, these rules.. they're good. They've been there the whole time?"
Well, the DMG is poorly ordered. World-building guidelines in the front of the book, despite that only being relevant if your homebrewing a campaign setting, and even then it's only useful before running the game, but rules and guidelines for things that happen in nearly every session of the game, like social interactions or skill checks, were put towards the back of the book. And the regular rules of the game aren't even in the book, so anytime a DM needs to check the rules of the game, they have to look in a PHB, rather than being able to flip through their own book to check. The PHB ends up being more useful to the average DM than the DMG, and the DMG ends up being more used by players to look up magic items than the DM.
More DMs would know about these rules if they were prioritized to the beginning of the book. The basics of actually running the game should be first, since that is what the DM is going to be doing every session, followed by the rules of the game, because that is what the DM is going to be using while running the game, and also, variant rules could maybe be in boxes in the margins of some of those pages, so their right their near the rules they modify or replace, makes them more handy. And then the next section can dip into basics of combat encounter balancing and the CR system as well as addressing how the action economy is affected by numbers and how the action economy affects the effective challenge. Followed by a section on building encounters and challenges and some suggestions for structuring adventure sessions, then a section on the basics of starting a campaign, which should start with talking about a starting town, and plot hooks and seeds for potential adventures that can be fleshed out between sessions. Then, it can talk about world building after that. Oh, and have more charts for things like NPC traits and what not. Or maybe those should be somewhere in with the section on designing an adventure, yeah.
Anyways, the DMG as it is has a lot of sections in reverse order of how relevant they are.
@@Tiyev If only there were a table of contents or something!
@@johnriverdavis3497
Dear god, imagine the horror!
that's the DMG for you
this just concludes my theory that nobody actually reads the books. (As a DM i'm the most guilty of that, but we'll skip this part)
That makes sense. I'm generally partial to rules that turn dice into a tool that determines the specifics of a situation otherwise determined by roleplay, rather than "THE DICE GODS HAVE SPOKEN" device that contradicts the roleplay.
Also, I love how you incorporated the recording blooper into the actual animation at the end :D
I'd like to think the dice control everything but the players. If they give a great speech but roll low, then a carriage passed by and the NPC just didn't hear the speech or misheard it into something bad or that the speaker just has spinach in their teeth and it's hard to pay attention. If the Barbarian jokingly said something and rolled high, maybe they are just the NPC's type and they are too busy ogling that hunk of muscle lady to view their joke as anything but genius and insightful persuasion.
I also change the DC depending on how good the speech is, so good equals lower DC, bad equals higher DC.
"THE DICE GODS HAVE SPOKEN" can be fun, if everyone agrees that's the kind of game they wanna play.
@Ezra If you do it like that then the players having a particularly good plan/idea/pitch doesn't help, though.
Liking the new style there Zee. Very slick ;)
Same I love it it’s so good
so do I ... but the "scrappier" style of the older videos is still preferred imho
@@OviD11111 Yeah, I also kind of like the flat unshaded style better, but this animation is still REALLY good.
the new beard is magnificent
@@Freekymoho I was gonna say. Look at that thing sway side to side.
Lol, Zee's neighbor's construction team was animated *and is NOW IN THE CANON!*
You never know what you'll be famous for.
For a second, that noise made me think that his room was suddenly and randomly in the belly of a dragon! lol
It was just skenk mcgenk casting erratic hammering
@@mitigatedrisk4264 Sounded like a large war vehicle with bronze wheels, and/or a pneumatic hammer or hammer-drill. That's a heck of a thing to be hammering with!
TIL Nobody has ever actually really read the DMG (Myself included)
Yes... Nobody...
Anyways imma go cry in a corner for no reason whatsoever
Eh, it's a big book with a lot of pointless stuff in it.
@@MrJoeyWheeler example of "pointless" please
Alot of the rules people say are missing from 5e are in the DMG.
@@MrJoeyWheeler lots of pointless stuff if you ignore homebrew worldbuilding, but there are some honestly good systems in there for survival mechanics, tips for running dungeon crawls, social encounters, downtime rules, MAGIC ITEMS, in-depth break down of what ability scores are used when (there's a great description of Intelligence(Investigation) vs Wisdom(Perception) for spotting and identifying traps and secrets), a great breakdown of the DC system, a description of how and when to apply advantage and disadvantage, and quite a bit more.
Didn't realize this ruleset existed, but it's a lot more intuitive than what I was doing until now. Another great video, thanks, Zee!
Remember: Charisma is not mind-control, insight is not mind-reading, and a 20 isn't an auto-success.
But Nat 20 as reality bending in your favour and 1 turning you into Wile E Cyote is fun.
I have a player that would contest that nat 20 thing. Kinda annoying.
A little louder for those in the back please! I can't stress enough how important these three guidelines are.
@@stm7810
Not really that fun, some 20 and 1 can ruin a campaign or your plans and this make the game way less serious, also 20 and 1 are supposed to be automatic succes/failure only in combat.
@@comicknightzero A fourth guideline: DC is based on what you try to do. Trying to polevault the narrowest part of a chasm is lower DC than trying to backflip across the widest part. Your argument sets the DC.
Also also; some rolls simply may not be possible. I'm not seducing that gay nun.
Oh this video is life saver. I'm a new DM and I wasn't expecting my PCs to be into socialising but they try talking to most creatures so I'm definitely using this for my next session
I've used this in a situation where members of the party were hired as temporary executioners for an upcoming holiday in which criminals would be killed in a certain way to appease Tyr the god of justice. Part of the execution ritual was that the executioners had to "Make peace" with the convicts which involved having a conversation in which they were meant to comfort them. The convicts had their own ideals flaws and personality quirks. My first player did quite poorly as not only did they refuse to answer any of the criminal's questions but when they talked to them but also conflicted with the convict ideal of secrecy by threatening to tell the guard the threats the convict had told him. This resulted in him being tackled to the floor in the jail cell and ultimately reduced pay. My other player managed to do quite well playing of his conflicts ideals of a good story by promising a single clean blow during the execution.
I love the little rush of dopamine my joy-deprived brain gets when I see a notification for a new Zee Bashew video
Running curse of Strahd at the moment. This is extrememly helpful. ❤
Holy shit this looks amazing. Love the use of lighting.
The beginning part also showcased another mistake I've been trying not to make lately- you gotta have them roll FIRST if you're basing their huge speech on a roll, so that you're not invalidating their roleplay. After their success or failure in the check is established, THEN they elucidate how their speech went. Don't let them give a beautiful monologue arbitrarily attached to a 1.
This is important. ^^
You could also scrap this and invert the premise.
That is, interpret their role as being the range of responses the NPC would give to whatever specific speech the player made.
So 1 is the worst response the NPC might make to that given speech, and 20 is the best.
Eh, I prefer to set the DC, and occasionally offer advantage/disadvantage, based on the roleplay of the speech. Which as far as I understand from this, is how the rules are intended to work. It's not invalidating their roleplay if their speech lowered the DC from 15 to 10, but the NPC's just weren't receptive due to a 1 (which *reminder* is not an automatic failure, player skill bonuses could still eke out success from a 1 with a low enough DC). Remember, dice rolls are *also* about in-game luck. Maybe, despite their rousing speech, the NPC has a prior engagement and can't help, even if they wanted to.
I have to say, my favourite part was definitely the end. Don't think I've ever seen someone roll with an oddity in the sound so smoothly
It's almost like the better they role play, the lower the DC is.
Underrated comment
That's a good substitute, but given that roleplay is supposed to be one of the three pillars of gameplay, I like the DMG rules (p.244). I'm going to start using them. They provide a lot more structure for anyone who's not sure where to begin, they bring Investigation and Insight checks into relevance, and they give a good number of examples that you can take inspiration from.
Not necessarily. Social interaction rules are a framework for the social pillar. It allows people with in game social abilities to better effect the outcome rather than a lucky persuasion role.
You don't have to be a good roleplayer for this. You simply have to understand the mechanics for influencing a creatures attitude, by appealing to it's bond, flaw, or ideal in order to shift it's attitude, then role a charisma check to for the desired result.
Its not just the DC. Each disposition earned by roleplay has a minimum and maximum effect, making it a far better and more immersive system.
I don't even like 5e much but the social rules presented here sound great honestly.
@@PhyreI3ird These are the social rules presented in the Dungeon Master Guide. It is RAW and RAI, not variant rules.
The sections on social interaction as well exploration (the tracking section) should be included in the players hand book for transparency.
Social interaction rules are glossed over because players, and DMs for that matter, generally don't read the DMG with the same stringency as the PHB.
Social spells like charm, calm emotions, and friends are balanced around these rules. The social interaction rules are an intended mechanic of the game, and much as obscurement rules are for vision.
Every time I see something like this, I'm reminded why experienced DMs laud reading through the DMG so much. I've always just cherry-picked what I thought I'd need.
So can we just talk about how freaking smooth and good that animation was? The jiggle of the beard, the lighting, the little movements with the hands, just wow.
*Edit:* Like... I'm someone who went through an animation course (granted, I feel like I botched it, since my main job was fetching other resources) and that's way better than any animation I saw from the school. *_period_*
*Edit Numero dos:* Ok, so _WOW_ , did not expect this many likes to this comment.
Looks like a new technique, a bit of 3D animation I think?
@@antimattercarp2720 wouldn't quite say 3D, looks too flat, but maybe there's some automated tweening for details like the beard.
Though the beard does distract me a little.
A lot.
This is cool, and mostly looks good, but I'm a little weirded out by the beard.
Seems like someone's on the receiving end of erratic hammering now
Ah this reminds me of a semi-argument I had with a Player that was using a Rogue.
He wanted to pet a Giant Dessert Ant that was frothing in the mandibles with rage due to being held captive against its will in a pet shop owner of questionable morals.
The playered rolled a Nat 20 in his Animal Handling and went to pet it. The Ant still bit him, but at disadvantage because it was confused.
The Player was pissed off at me saying he rolled high for his Animal Handling, and my counter-arguments were:
- Did you give the Giant Angry Dessert Any any food or distraction?
- Did you just walk up and pet it on the head like you would a dog?
- Did you look into how the Ant was treated in its cage and how it was responding to everyone around it?
- Do you think a creature with an Intelligence of 1 is going to understand what you are trying to do to it?
He remained silent after telling me it was dumb and wanted to shoot the captive insect.
Another player, A Chunky Fighter with lots of Health, decided to allow the Ant to bite him, multiple times, while soothing it with fresh water and sweets. After multiple rolls, and half his health munched on, the Fighter managed to at least make the Ant **NOT** bite him on sight. The fighter decided to buy the Ant and have it as a companion pet.
I repeated this sort of encounter with another party in a campaign and the same results happen. First a player would just roll high and do something like pet or outright grab the Giant Ant. Then the other player would take extra measures to 'court' the Ant's friendship from Hostile to Indifferent and some cases Friendly.
I do not believe I did this wrong at all, but what say you fellow DMs? Did I do this encounter wrong?
That's how it should be --- but you should make your expectations clear beforehand. If you find yourself explaining the rules of your world _after_ someone has assumed things would work differently and suffered for it, that's a problem.
@@tomc.5704 That is true, though I did made it clear on those rules well before this incident happen. It is just rough when players still think that high roll results equal instant results, friendship, or other things that defy common sense.
Reminds me of another situation that a Sorcerer just blatantly cast a Subtle Metamagic Charm Spell on one of the King's attendants and expected the attendant to lead him and the party int othe King's private chambers.
@@MarkATorres1989 Yeah, Charm grants you advantage on Charisma checks (and with these DMG social interaction rules, an instant Friendly attitude). It's not mind control.
Suggestion would get closer to the effect they wanted, but "The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable." Is escorting strangers into the King's private chambers reasonable? I'm not sure it is. It's explicitly against the attendant's training. At the very least, when someone questioned where they were going and the attendant replied, "I am brining these people to the King's private chambers" the party would quickly have to convince this new NPC that everything was fine.
Now if they had cast Charm first, and then Suggestion, you'd be suggesting that he bring friends into the private chambers -- much more reasonable, and the attendant would assure the NPC they met in the hallway that everything was fine, don't worry.
Even then though, the party would run into problems because with Suggestion, "the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do." I see the scene playing out like this: As soon the attendant finished showing them into the room, he would pause and look around, slightly confused. Then he would turn toward with a concerned look on his face and say, "Oh, we really shouldn't be in here." If the party does nothing to convince him otherwise, he'd quickly move towards "I'm sorry, but we have to leave." And then it would be on the party to persuade him, distract him long enough to do what they needed to, or simply knock him out and put him in a closet.
Bottom line, it's not easy to get into a King's private chambers. If they want mind control, that's a 5th level spell.
As far as the "Expecting a high roll to instantly work," I have a house rule I like for those scenarios. RAW, impossible things can't happen and a Natural 20 only means instant success on attack rolls. But that's not what most people think DnD is---most people instinctively try to apply Natural 1's and 20's to all rolls and they like the excitement and randomness that brings. It's a constant uphill battle to fight that tendency, and it leaves people feeling disappointed.
So I like to allow critical success and failures on skill checks and saving throws, but only if you confirm the crit.
You don't need to confirm crits on attack rolls, because it makes sense that you could have a 5% chance to get a lucky hit with your sword. But can a unskilled lockpicker open a challenging lock on their first try? Not likely. Not 5%. And if they fail a DC 7 check, they'll break their lockpick. But if they crit and confirm it, I'll allow the incredibly improbable to happen on a 1 in 400 chance. On the other hand, if they roll a Natural 1 and confirm it, they might get their finger stuck in the lock.
If the player that wants to engage with the encounter is walking away from the encounter frustrated, you're usually doing something wrong
Completely justifiable, though perhaps you should have added that even with the animal handling the ant still seems tense and perhaps touching it right now still isn’t a great idea.
You've been doing well. I like the lighting and added physics now.
Obscene hair color: insecure
Really gonna call everyone out there aren’t ya
Where's the lie? >:^)
@@potato4dawin1 exactly, colors like that in nature usually indicate poison, toxins or aggression.
It usually ends up being true for people too.
Thought the same when I saw it
Zee, I have to admit that after many years; these animations are one of the reasons I got back into D&D. Helpful, insightful and the right amount of funny to boot.
Thanks.
I'm really digging how the character teaching us about using the social rules has what appears to be a literal golden tongue.
I really need to get better at juggling Ideals/Bonds/Flaws, it’s a clever little system but earlier editions have instilled some bad, brute-force habits for social encounters.
It helps to make a social tendency chart (theirs ideals/bonds/Flaws, how they will relate to players, and how difficult it is to switch attitudes) for important NPCs, and for less important NPCs you can use a blank chart and just track their current position on it. Also, players don't need to know the entire process you are going through. If they don't even notice how structured the social encounter was then you did a really good job. Remember that the 0,10, and 20 thresholds are just a suggestion and you can make characters more or less stubborn within specific attitudes.
Having a social tendency chart also gives you quick access to information that you can give out for insight checks.
Depending on the edition, this is not necessarily true, in the TSR era games, there was the reaction roll done with 2d6 which gave the different intelligent creatures a random reaction from instantly hostile to friendly modified by the pcs charisma. This could of course result in things like a orc squad passing by the party ignoring them (rolling indifferent reaction) or a group of gnome miners running and bashing the pcs kneecaps in (hostile reaction) and the party (and dm) could decide to figure out why if they wanted.
How much this was used is an other story but the rules for different reactions has always been there and could be narrowed to the same as in fifth with modifiers (or splitting the table up) so it has been there for use for quite a while.
Know this since I've used this as both a player and dm in ad&d and b/x.
edit: spelling
@@classywolf6024 3.5 also had the attitude system for social encounters, in fact it had five attitudes: Friendly, Helpful, Indifferent, Unhelpful, Hostile. Helpful and Unhelpful were for people like town guards, whom it's normally not hard to get basic help from because it's their job but they don't actually have positive relations with you, and similarly unhelpful didn't usually mean enmity it just meant they didn't want to help you out with things.
@@Erik_Dz This is probably in the DMG and I'll feel dumb, but do you have an example of this chart?
Earlier editions didn't do that, in fact its basically the same damn rules. Its just that no one reads the rules.
I usually just love your videos cuz they're fun to watch, but this is the first one I actually learned a wholly new idea. Thank you a lot for sharing these ideas. I really appreciate it
The Zeenamation keeps getting better
Really quickly
Perhaps too quickly
*starts drawing sword, rolls 1 on Insight
Nah seems legit, he ain’t a wizard
Of course he isn't a wizard, he's a sorcerer.
"i'm gonna be releasing an episode every week for the next few weeks" YES, YOU SEXY BEAST!
HNNNGGG
Construction? More like a baby Tarrasque on the loose. (Who's a cute little, world-eating terror? You are! Who's a cute little, world-eating terror? You are! Who's a cute little, world-eating terror? You are!)
Beautifully animated, and well spoken. Zee is the source of DM answers we all needed and never deserved.
WOOOO a dose of Zee every week for the next few weeks!? We have been blessed.
Fingers crossed for some enlightening Cauldron talk.
A great look into a set of tools so rarely used! I'm utterly convinced the DMG is the least read of any of the 5th Edition books, despite being one of the most owned.
D&D did a number of videos with Jeremy Crawford looking at little-used or frequently misunderstood parts of the PHB a while ago, I think a series on 'Stuff you missed in the DMG' is long overdue.
Also wow, this is a marked improvement in body language and use of animation elements (is that the name for it, when you break up a character into discrete parts and animate each independently?). Great work!
I have that very NPC reaction chart on the inside of my own DMs screen.
Damn, the quality is doing some insane jumps with each video that comes out. Great job !
Honestly, I don't even play D&D, but your art, scripting, and voice work make your videos incredibly enjoyable even to someone who's never played
IMHO, you could adopt 3 different styles:
- as-is, treat the player's speech as "what the character wanted to say" but the roll gives "what the audience actually heard."
- have the players roll first, then have them describe the result. Failure and they describe how badly they stammered and stuttered, success and they either give or describe the most rousing locker room speech they've ever given.
- have the players perform the persuasion attempt first, give bonuses/lower DC for particularly convincing speeches that are well within character's abilities and current knowledge (i.e. don't have the barb with 7 charisma recite the Gettysburg Address)
My old system was to let players roll before saying a word, then decide what to say knowing in advance whether it will succeed or fail. It helped preserve the roleplay but still had its downsides. This sounds better.
I do the same, give intention to dm, roll, rp accordingly, but the attitude system doesnt supersede that way if doing things, its just another layer to add verisimilitude to a social encounter
This, this all day long. We don’t make you shoot a bow or swing a sword then go well you suck at that so your character gets disadvantaged on his attack.
Zee Bashew uploaded, my week is made
(Also I love the lighting and shading effects in your animation! It's insane)
This looks absolutely fantastic, I've gotta say. Not that your previous animations looked bad, but this one looks notably better. Well done.
Nice
Haha you are the fist comment
I always just killed them and then summoned them as undead, they’re so helpful after that
I'm so glad you left the construction in at the end. I laughed so hard.
I'm gonna need to look into these social rules.
My group constantly does things too assist giving advantage instead of rolling themselves. Even though we have the option to roll ourselves.
Not only not only does it mean that the higher bonus is applied. It also means that you're less likely to end up with a low number. someone with a low survival may try and point out a landmark on a map, only for the person making the role to correct them and then realize where that landmark actually is to be able to find where they want to go.
I want a video where all these new characters come together. We have the rogue, barbarian, and now wizard. If I had to guess, I'd say that leaves a ranger or a bow fighter to be released.
The clothes on Zee's avatar appear to be like a witch hunter, maybe. But wizard also makes sense...
I feel like almost every problem DMs have can be solved by reading the DMG.
I remember when I was getting into D&D 5 years ago, I was told that I didn't need the DMG. I got the DMG anyway.
I think an issue people have with the DMG is that it sticks a bunch of world and campaign building stuff first. It makes it hard if you just want to run an adventure, because you feel you have to put all this effort into it, and obscures actual rules that exist that players don't necessarily know about
This is incredible! Thank you so much for this content. I've been doing it wrong for years.
This is such a good way to handle things and is one of your most important videos imo.
I would like to lodge a formal complaint that the wizard's beard isn't orange.
The term "social encounter" always brings me to a concept that I wanted to explore farther then "make an insight check" or "ok, roll persuasion".
The rules presented here work for 90% of the game... they are light weight, quick and adaptable enough to just use them on most encounters... but...
What if you wanted to give your socially adept characters the time to shine the same way your blastermage or Axewirling Uberbarbarian do during combat ?
- what if you designed a pivotal point in your adventure as a "social encounter" in which the characters have to really work to get the outcome they want and which could hurt them if they bungle it ?
A banquett with hidden plots and side dealings they have to navigate, dealing and calling in favors to get to the right person to talk to or foil that nefarious antagonist across the table that they can't just polymorph into a toad.
Obviously, you'ld need the right kind of group for such an interlude or you'ld waste time better spent inventing colorful insults for your next vicious mockery while you'r chopping up foes in a dungeon, but with the right combination of players, putting them in a situation where your spells and weapons are not the right tools to fight with would certainly make for an interesting interlude.
Every episode you release gets better than the last. Keep being awesome, thanks for the video
WOAH gorgeous animation! Information is always on point, but this looks so crisp!
So THAT'S what spells like Friends and Charm Person are all about!
It makes them doubly useful! Because now you get to have advantage on Charisma checks against someone who has a Friendly attitude towards you. In the case of Charm Person, it goes all the way to "Friendly Acquaintance" which is better than Friends which technically doesn't say anything about changing their attitude.
@@tomc.5704 It doesn't say it explicitly because it really shouldn't have to. If someone mind-controlled you or overly shifted your thoughts to make you help them, are you saying you would stay friends with that person after it wore off? Or not become hostile to that person? Hell, Charm Person even explicitly states the target is aware they were charmed by you after the fact.
The nice thing about 5E is that not absolutely every minute possibility is spelled out perfectly, because there are some things that can be inferred, and it allows flexibility on the DM's part to interpret them. And I don't need it to spell out that being charmed by someone would make an NPC change their attitude towards that person in a negative way.
I kept telling my groups this but no one ever read the DMG. Now whenever people don't know I can just redirect them to this video. Because why read when someone could explain it with prettt colors.
YO DAAAAMN THIS ANIMATION *C L E A N*
Keep up the good work Zee, you inspire artists everywhere 👌
Zee, I watch all your stuff and I'm always entertained, but this might be the single most influential piece of DM advice I've received in a year. Also, I dig the rising production value. The effort is evident!
Thats some werid sounding "erratic hammering" at the end of the video.
My personal rule is if someone is convincing enough I will let the succeed depending on the DC. I may even give them advantage. This way roleplaying feels less cosmetic and more rewarding.
Late, but this is how our DM runs things as well. I once stumbled my way through a (rigged on both sides) drinking contest using nothing but role-play. We had rigged the contest using a Tankard of Sobriety whose magic was concealed with Nondetection, while our opponents who we were stealing an artefact from, had an orc join mid contest meaning he was completely fresh while I was (supposed to be) at least a little tipsy.
We kept up the charade until our main opponent in the contest, their wizard leader, was dead drunk, then the rest of my group staged some distractions around the inn, drawing attention before I swiped the artefact we were after.
Despite only pretending to be drunk our DM did not ask for a roll as long as I myself role-played my supposed drunkenness convincingly.
If the *argument* is convincing enough, sure. But it shouldn't matter how well the *player* delivers the argument at the table.
If the DM requires the *player* to be charismatic, then they're preventing players in an RPG from roleplaying a character more charismatic than they are.
One of the points of the game is to allow us to imagine ourselves with different abilities than we have in real life. That is much of the fun!
If you wouldn't expect a player to be able to somersault in the air in order for their character to succeed on an Acrobatics check, then you understand that it is unfair and impractical to expect players IRL to meet the same requirements their characters need to meet in the game.
immediately i see lighting differences this is great
the video itself is even better! great work man
I like Vecna's hand in the background of the intro, and the lighting as well. Very slick. Good job! :D
Last time I was this early, I was stillborn
Glad to hear you got better
Oof 😆
NECROMANCY! BACK YE UNDEAD!
@@EzekiesAcheron no. He got better
@@cheeselord3655 "she turned me into a NEWT!"
Is the construction JoCat building a Mega Fireball Launcher to get his sweet sweet revenge?
Dated jokes
Super happy to see this finally brought up by somenone! I've been running with these rules since 3.5 and can say the they've always been there, lurking in the background. most people just don't realize!
Cheers! love your stuff brother!
These animations keep getting better, and it's informative! Nice. Hope the construction ends soon, I know how awful that is.
When it comes to rolling charisma skills to convince and whatnot, we generally just roll the skill first and THEN act it out. Which, honestly is how it should be done. Imagine combat where the player goes "Okay, so I swing my sword, hitting the enemy in the stomach, spraying blood and viscera all over the flagstones." and THEN roll their attack.
Say that to JC 5e's Rule Designer, but his interaction in roleplaying is neat, mouth farts are not arguments even if you role a nat20. And combat is much more than swinging and missing and tanking all the damage.
See but no one even does that for social encounters.
What you did was describe the players action (swinging the sword and hitting) and then the NPC's reaction (bleeding everywhere)
What'd be more appropriate if it was like the social interactions people usually do would be
Player: 'I swing my sword and hit him in the chest'
Dm: 'roll'
Player rolls and gets below the enemies AC
DM: 'you hit him but your sword fails to penetrate his armour' (or) 'you swing your sword and get him right in the chest, but at the last second the NPC steps back, you barely nick him'
both of those outcomes don't invalidate what the player said and allowed for the dice (and the NPCs stats i.e tank vs dex based AC) to impact the actual outcome.
"Hostile creatures won't suddenly become friendly"
Bard seduces the ancient goddess that was going to kill the party.
this is actually really helpful and makes more sense than "roll a ____ check" and proceed to be screwed even though you made a very good point
Your shading technique in this animated short is above the top 👏👏
I have nothing new to add to this conversation, just amplifying what has been said.
The art looks amazing!
This way of doing social interactions is exciting to me with it's simplicity, I will be using this from now on. Thanks Zee!
I love the extra touches of Animation that you add to the narration of this video. Also I want to thank you for definitely giving Insight on various things in Dungeons & Dragons.
I love your animations and this one is my favorite by far in the art and audio quality.
thank your for the video, one of my older GMs used this system and I loved it so much I been more or less followed it for social encounters in other GM's camps :)
didn't realized it was in the rule book :D thought it was a house rule to make sure my party didn't charisma one shot everything
Legs? Legs. LEGS!
Also, gotta wonder if the construction at the end was foreshadowing a future video, or if there was actual construction while Zee was recording. He seems like the kind of guy who would leave that take in and just roll with it.
This video is amazing btw for giving more depth and complexity to your DnD games and deserves all the likes!
wow, that looks like it would flow better and make social encounters an actual risk rather than just a roadblock. im going to suggest this to my DMs
Honestly, I find this actually stops people from being able to play as certain characters due to actively having to RP everything they say. If you're not naturally charismatic or charming, then rarely will a lot of DMs pick up that you're actually trying to do so (if you're not allowed to say "I say in a charming voice").
You’re videos are always so helpful.
It might be weird, but the construction adds this weird sense of realism to these videos that I deeply appreciate. Thanks for all the great information
How did so many of us (myself included) miss this rather vital information ^^' Thanks a lot Zee
No joke Zee, I've got a huge fancy in game dinner coming up on the 22nd for my party, and this helps SO much.
It would be super awesome to see an episode where all the different zee avatars convened for some type of council to make a decision on some controversial dnd topic
Dude I'm seeing your animation style getting better and better and I'm super impressed. Nice soft edge lighting. Good use of mixing certain expressions and hand movements. Reminds me a lot of the ace attorney games style of animation.
Wow, that makes a ton of sense! I'm so happy you put out a new video.
I'm using this from now on as well. Also, more Cold Path please! I'm really enjoying the story!
I have found this sorta thing indescribable in my past, this puts it into words very well.
I sorta just... was doing this already? But knowing these rules certainly help to refine the social rolling experience, nevermind affirms how I was doing things. Thanks, Zee!
this is...really helpful. I can't even count the number of times where players (myself included) have been less invested in RP after a string of bad rolls. I'll definitely bring this up with the DM next session
I've been following you for roughly a year and it's amazing seeing your work improve over time.
Man I just love everything about these videos and this channel Thank you for this
Thankfully I was aware of these rules and used them in the sessions I've run. I've also used the suggested dcs so it has worked out. I liked it alot.
The animation looks great!! Really smooth and subtle.
Dayum, the animation sure is getting better and better! Hugs for ya, friend!
Good tip. While certainly not univerally applicable, this is definitely a useful tool.
If nothing else, defining an NPC's ideal, bond and flaw in advance can help inform the way you roleplay them - which, in turn, informs the players how best to influence them.
Love your work! It would be WAY cool if in the future you would include a page reference for rules in your description so we quickly could find the specific rule you're discussing!
the head movements are unbelievably smooth this time, it's stunning
Dude your animation is on another level
Amazing, love your content
This is a very good video. Awesome animation, short run time, and direct information. Subbed!