Smart Talk with Fred Harrison:
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Fred Harrison is back on Smart Talk to discuss his new trilogy “#WeAreRent” where he presents a new approach to spreading George’s message. According to Harrison, the marketing of the message is just as important as the message itself and there is an urgent need for a narrative to captivate public imagination and influence behavior and policy.
The new language that he calls for would reposition the Georgist argument by avoiding the use of the word “tax” which he believes scares away people who may otherwise adopt the message.
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There are a host of problems in society that are getting worse almost daily. Problems, such as increasing poverty, even among the middle classes, homelessness and soaring prices for food and essential services. This outdated and flawed economic system which is producing our broken society, or as Fred puts it, our traumatized society, is the armour and protection for the politicians to do as they please whilst offering lies and false promises to the victims of their hollow concern, perpetual inaction and self-serving agenda. There is no question that LVT or AGR works, this is a given. There has to be a simple way to make it understood clearly, easily and without reservation for those that might be leaders in the near future. This seems to be the profound message coming out of this fascinating discussion. I have to say that it is the only discussion, and ongoing subject in which I have found to contain any hope for a sustainable future for honest hard working folk and the future they so want for their children.
Fred's work is making an important contribution to understanding. Hopefully, you and others are spreading the word.
Edward Dodson is an excellent interviewer, well done!
Thank you for the compliment, Gustavus. My role as an interviewer, as I see, is to draw out the most important insights the person being interviewed has to share with us. Glad you found this one informative and useful.
I certainly did, and I think Fred Harrison is generally very good at getting his points across in a balanced and level-headed way in interviews like this.
By the way, you'll probably be happy to know that Georgism has an increasing presence on social media, attracting a lot of interest both on Twitter and elsewhere, with young people, by way of the free information of the internet, finding their way to alternative paths rather than the current rentier capitalism or destructive anarcho-capitalism etc. We have a pretty active Reddit forum going, and also a Discord server with 400+ members, including lots of curious folk as well as Georgists of various sorts (everything from leftwingers, syndicalists, classical liberals, conservatives, geoanarchist, geolibertarians, mutualists, etc.) getting along and discussing implementation, outreach, and all kinds of other subjects.
Wishing you all the best, and keep up the good work!
@@gustavusnicolaus6750 Perhaps, just perhaps, there is light at the end of the tunnel!
Your efforts are not in vain. The Economic Freedom Fighters is a political party in South Africa that has put back the issue of land into the public discourse. ( they wish to put the land in state custodianship and residents apply to use land.) this is something very important because recently South Africa had mass looting and destruction of property, a testament to the social ills in the country. South Africa is the most unequal country in the world and private ownership of land by a tiny minority has brought about stagflation.
The redistribution of land has the power to unlock shared progress.
The sad irony is that under the old regime, Johannesburg and other South African cities thrived under a property tax structure that exempted property improvements and imposed a high rate of taxation on the rental value of locations. Black South Africans rightly demanded a redistribution of ownership of land as reparation for long-standing discrimination under property laws. There ought to have been a way of achieving equitable access to land without destroying the very fiscal tool that had the potential to fully eliminate monopoly of land, whether rural or urban.
I understand the the third volume in Fred Harrison's trilogy, "#WeAreRent" will soon be published.
Stiglitz told Piketty to his face that the issue was Land not Capital - I'd love to know what Piketty thinks about that.
Interesting, any source where I can read/see this?
@@F1amcisco I no longer appear to be able to post links. Google "Stiglitz on Land, Rent and George" - its on a site called henrygeorgedevon ....
@@smartiepancake thanks!
I don't buy the argument that we can't call it a tax. We called it a tax in Estonia, and Estonia jumped on it. I think it is more likely that Russia was just too big and too corrupt, and Estonia was small and wanting to compete with other states. As far as I can determine, every victory we ever had was based on campaigns that called it a tax.
Howdy Dan. Agreed, scale seems to be a factor when adopting any "new" technology/tax. I'm glad to see Fred Harrison is going strong.
Fred explains that he believes we have reached a point of danger for systemic collapse. Unless there is widespread understanding that the privatization of rent is the cause we are doomed. Will enough people read his current book or listen to and gravitate to his message? That is the big question.
My question is what approaches have been successful and what approaches have failed. My understanding is that humble, pragmatic approaches have succeeded, and that grandiose approaches, either utopian or apocalyptic, have failed.
@@SavingCommunitiesDS I do not disagree with you Dan. City and town officials aren't focused on the big picture; they need to raise revenue to balance budgets and LVT is the best way to do this. Fred's book details why he believes we no longer have the luxury of time for small, incremental changes. At this point, even if Fred is right (and I believe he is), his is a voice crying out of the wilderness. I have done what little I can do to promote the book and attract attention to his message.
"Tax" is a turn off, I get that, but is "single tax"?
Exactly. I had the same reaction. It just seems too good to be true. Yet, poverty in Singapore is practiacally non existent.
@@josephgallagher4279 ? Despite the obvious success of it's quasi Georgist economic model in attracting investment and generating wealth, the distribution of that wealth, or those 'rents' is highly unequal. As a consequence around 1/10 households in Singapore are considered to be in poverty.
They do not believe a _Single Tax_ is possible. That is another turn off.
@@schumanhuman My understanding is that those who are the poorest are non-citizens who do not have access to Singapore's social welfare benefits (including subsidized housing).
@@nthperson Yes there is certainly an underclass of foreign workers, and this has been recently highlighted as an embarrassment via covid as it was primarily spreading amongst them in their cramped conditions.
Well, of course these ideas struggle. They struggle against massive wealth, giving the corporate sector equally massive power. Politicians as we know them - or rather the political parties - are positioned by their relationship to land and capital owners.
Sadly, democracy is built on what those same parties selectively communicate for votes, and not by the sane criticism of the electorate. Large groups of the electorate aren’t given the societal tools to critique their own society at that level - but they are indeed given the language to blame any external group or cause, falsely held as the base for any misery. The party also decides who’s electable, not the electorate itself, so the non-ownership social strata (class) can’t sanction power efficiently.
I fully agree on what land ownership does to the economy. After all, money, labour, commerce or rent are just exchange of resources. They all obfuscate a more reasonable and understandable barter of resources, making the poorer and least insightful trading part the weakest in the transaction. That weakness is always coded in law, where ownership trumps basic human needs. I.e. bartering is illegal, because money, taxes or financial instruments (all forms of debt) are removed from the transaction.
I raced in here the other day, like a bull with his balls on fire. Too critical! So, If my previous comments, here, offend anyone or come off as over zealous, I apologize for my misplaced, disrespectful tone and demeanor. I’m just really concerned about what we are up against and want results. But it’s not about me! Rookie mistake.
i don't understand the criticism of modern monetary theory. can MMT not work alongside the land ownership theory? were land ownership fixed would we not continue to have problems with capitalism which MMT can lessen? at 35mins. i understand he goes into more detail in book 2 of we are rent
Some economists (and others) argue the case that money creation belongs with government and not a quasi-independent central bank controlled by the bankers. It has seemed reasonable to me that government should not be required to borrow at interest from the central bank in order to obtain legal tender and spend it into the economy. The connection between the availability to and price of borrowed money and land markets is that absent the public capture of rent (i.e., the potential annual rental value of locations), land will have a selling price. This occurs because asset prices are the capitalization of income flows; rent is an income flow attached to locations. When access to credit is readily available and interest rates are low, land prices climb in response to the credit-fueled speculation that occurs.
@@nthperson say we get the single tax, would we not still have the same sort of problems we have now with inequality and the distribution of wealth?
i understand it would improve the distribution... but would we not continue to have the rich with far too much influence in politics and government...? what would the georgist view be on this?
@@imaresurcher Well, systemic privilege has held the world's people hostage for centuries. It is likely to take a few generations even if taxation is replaced by the public collection of rents. The very wealthy will continue to be very wealthy and continue to use their wealth for political gain. That said, as more and more people experience increased incomes and wealth, they will likely have more time and energy for involvement in civic affairs.
@@nthperson and so generally the georgist wouldn't advocate for anything like a wealth tax or any other redistributive measures? I suppose that risks capital emigrating elsewhere
what do u think of the theory that worker co-ops should replace the corporate hierarchy, board of directors as parasites etc, as popularised by prof richard wolff?
@@imaresurcher I cannot speak for all of those who embrace Henry George's teachings. I support a progressive income tax that also greatly simplifies compliance. Why not exempt all incomes up to, say, the national median income. Income from all sources would be subject to the same tax rate structure. All other deductions and exemptions would be eliminated. Then, above the exempt amount impose an increasing rate of taxation on higher ranges of income. So, those who end up paying the most would be those with the most ability to pay and whose income is often derived from gains on the sale of land and financial assets.
I agree with Professor Wolff that worker (and community) cooperatives ought to be promoted. Corporations should not be consider people and should be prohibited from funding political campaigns.
Peoples heads are so full of already formed economic ideas and campaign bumper stickers. Its hard to communicate Georgism to people that already have all the answers. Definitely can be frustrating.
I am someone who was fortunate to have been introduced to Henry George's analysis at a time when I was searching for insight into problems I was dealing with working to help revitalize distressed communities. I have never experienced deep frustration for one reason, I think, which is (as Fred Harrison has written) it took about five hundred years for civilization to come to the current point of confused analysis. I have to illusion that change will come any time soon. But, those of us who have benefitted by the insights we have gained have an obligation to humanity to do what we can.
Could you interview a bleeding heart libertarian like Matt Zwolinski? Milton Friedman mentioned Henry George positively - why don't you guys team up with the Free To Choose Network for a lecture/debate or something?
Thoughtful people exist on the left, on the right and in the middle. What Henry George provided, I submit, was the just balance between rights to property and human rights. Smart Talk will always provide interesting conversations with thoughtful people.
Since Capitalism (only about 200-250 years old) was introduced, we have had a _collective sociopathy_ take over. That is, winner takes all, and take all you can even if you never earned it.
It is difficult to turn that mindset.
The problem of the current understanding is that we, as a whole, do not identify what *commonly created wealth* is. Once people identify what and where wealth *we* created is, they then will rise to stop its appropriation into private coffers.
One reason for this, I believe, is a general sense that the economy (not just the stock market) is a huge gambling casino. As Fred writes, if "free riding" is considered normal and endemic to our socio-political arrangements and institutions, then its does become, as you say, a "collective sociopathy".
@@nthperson
Ed, but people are not aware it is _free riding._
They are also not aware of the converse. That their own hard earned wealth is being taken from them unnecessarily, in the form of income & sales taxes.
What is happening is quite simple:
*1)* Commonly created wealth is being appropriated into private coffers;
*2)* Commonly created wealth governments should be using for common services is kept out of their reach. To make up the shortfall, they appropriate individuals private wealth.
Once they get *1)* and *2)* they will act to stop it. It is getting them to understand something so fundamentally simple.
@@nthperson wrote:
_"a general sense that the economy (not just the stock market) is a huge gambling casino."_
The economy is not, but they do believe that, as the media puts over that the whims of the stock market is a gauge of the economy as something to be taken seriously - and also the driver of the real economy. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The stock market Dot Com boom was benign to the economy not affecting it whatsoever. Only those in casino game made or lost.
@@johnburns4017 That's why I keep doing what I do, as do so many others who understand what is at the core of our collective misery.
You guys should shuffle down from your economic ivory towers and find out what, really, drives all different kinds of people on the margins.
Figure out people like me, a lifetime unaffiliated/ Independent voter. Find out what drives us or turns us off. Our learning styles, our tastes and our blind spots.
All types of minnows like us often feel totally alienated, expendable; deplorable and abandoned by a society of sharks wales and manipulative whiners. We feel hopeless. Especially women, I think. Why do you think they are motivated to work so hard and have come to dominate fields like teaching and medicine? Out of sober necessity!
Most people still believe that, “With our pockets on”, as Willy Loman’s Land Barron brother, Ben, stated, “We become somebody!” Death of a Salesman, by notable Communist, Arthur Miller, is an excellent example of what a world of Capitalism without Georgism is destined to become. And how it effects our families.
Money talks, I see that. But not everyone is motivated by materialism. Some of us, Like Biff Loman are hopelessly quixotic and dare to dream or at least see how the pursuit of money and success ruins our parents AND there marriages. Yet, like Happy Loman, comfort and easy wealth is exactly what most people desire in order to at least insulate themselves from a “hard knock life“ of mediocrity or Gasp... poverty!
Then there are those less celebrated entrepreneurs who like many of us, are just a pay cycle away from severe economic ruin, should misfortune visit once again. For example, another catastrophic economic downturn?
“Hey, Dummy! No matter how easy the credit or how much of a tear markets are on, don’t open your stupid pirate themed family restaurant in 2026!” That’s what Economic Forecaster, Phillip Anderson would advise. We could then, at least gloat and say, I told you so, while we throw each other morally bankrupt high fives. OR we could save somebody's shirt and convert them to Georgism. A lot of people predicted that 2016 presidential upset! Brexit, too. Some got rich off of that wisdom; others gained an insane amount of influence and notoriety. Why, in the past, they all seemed to ignore Fred's sage advice is beyond me.
So, then, how DO we reach these people? Shock value, stunting, shame, passion, understanding them better? “I feel your pain.” Boy did that line work on me, way back then.
Henry George was a very devout man on a mission from God but many other Georgists, seem to have no idea what it’s like flying solo, out here, fighting for an identity. Or the authentic reason other people just choose to hide amongst the flock. They aren’t necessarily pious or selfish or hostile to Georgism. They're just apathetic or scared; programed and deathly afraid to say or do the wrong thing. As 1960’s Author and social critic, Paul Goodman once pointed out. It’s a code. They learn it in the public schools and nowadays, all over the media.
I hated America and all it stood for, prior to Trump’s moronic rise. I hated both parties and their candidates with a passion and like usual didn’t vote. But I honestly came to believe, The Disruptor and Chief might actually smash the whole paradigm. Dismantle the taxaholic warmongers on the Left and then turn his knives on the emasculated Right.
I fell for it. Lots of us did. Or maybe we were so desperate we would have tried anything to save our country, families and broken pride. Tank Man was an impetuous idiot and I quite mysteriously, became one too. Runs in the family, lol. Sue me, shame me, disown me! Cry Bully me a river, local Lefties! You have no idea what it is like living here in the Swamp! One of the richest collection of self righteous jerks on Earth- meanwhile the rest of America pays their insanely inflated salaries. Suckers!
How Baltimore fails, so miserably, decade after decade, in a filthy rich state like Maryland was beyond me... until I met Henry George. I remember when most of Washington, as a city, was an economic national disgrace. And the murder capital of the world! Like the Harrisburg success story, they could have dug out from under that and still avoided the hyper gentrification they are undergoing, now. “I feel your pain”. Now move out!
This is really the time! The iron is hot, people are reeling, in crisis and still malleable. Angry too. To pick something up they must first let something else go. Like I have.
I’ve done this; it’s humiliating and gut wrenching. But please, ask yourselves? Are you prejudice in any way towards certain groups or individuals? I sometimes wonder.
Poultney Bigelow was a hugely deplorable but influential figure! However, what did Henry George do. He embraced him as a close friend, anyways. It was no doubt just another part of his charm, spiritual path and unparalleled success!
I didn’t choose this unhealthy obsession over Land Value Taxation. It chose me. Wouldn’t you like to know why or how a less virtuous outcast like me got “Hooked on Henry”? What the path was. What made it stick. Why I stayed..?
OCD? Maybe! Lots more of those where I came from. Find them. Convert them. I think it would be awesome to welcome so many of them in from the cold.
Great discussion. All the respect in the world. At first I thought I had come to a cry in. But no; what I really found was two well seasoned, amazingly committed, gentlemen taking a hard look at themselves and their processes. A refreshing humility check down over tactics and syntax, hope and vision; past and present.
Hope this helps. I certainly don’t have all the answers. But firmly believe Henry George does.