Re: hunger marketing, I don't think Nike seems to understand that they're boxing out people who want to get ahold of their race day shoes in-line with their fall/spring races. I saw so many comments on people giving up on the Alphafly and going with something else for spring races. People want the shoes in time to test run them and incorporate them into key workouts, not to play guesswork with the availability.
Fully agree. However, I think the marketing group in charge of it all doesn’t seem to care. They just want to milk the bottom line so they look better to their managers. That’s what’s frustrating. It has no place in an athlete first company making performance gear.
Asics kinda did it too with the Superblast 1. And seems “it worked” for them, given the experimental nature of the Superblast (as a sort of internal project). We have to acid test the distribution and availability of the SB 2, to see if they decided to go mainstream with it throughout their channels
Same can be somewhat said about Asics and their SuperBlast availability. They can consistently stock every Dicks/Footlocker/FleetFeet with multiple colorways of Nimbus 26, but they only make a certain amount of SuperBlast. Cmon Asics...
@@fecardona true, I think the difference there is partially where that shoe sits in rotation, partially the fact that a lot of people are still running in the SB1. With the Alphafly/race day shoes, I think people are more eager to have the newest version (especially with the AF2 being regarded as a step back from the original Alphafly). I also tend to think Asics changed their marketing approach quite a bit since the original Superblast *didn't* get universally rave reviews until reviewers realized it needed a break-in period, and everyone trashed the initial $220 release price. It felt like the scarcity started after the price drop, and after the "first reviews" were kind of revisited and modified. Yet...Asics is also doing demo runs with BITR this summer and seems to have enough shoes for the sake of creating that hype and getting folks to wear-test them at events. It's an interesting marketing strategy for sure.
Yeah that hunger marketing non-sense is the sole reason why I tried my first non-Nike race day shoe and now I don't even look to nike for running shoes. When the comparable alternatives are both cheaper and more easily obtainable.
I went from all Nike to all Asics. 😂 Nike has seriously been struggling. Right now I only own one Nike shoe: Vomero 17. The big comeback story is Asics especially the last 4-5 years. You might want to cover that story. It should be interesting.
I've covered that story in multiple videos. No doubt Asics has had a great run in the past 5 years. 2024 seems a little iffy for them...I hope they aren't resorting back to old ways...but no doubt they have done well.
Im divided on Nike. For one I feel they should have done better many years ago with child labor and cheap wages which will always haunt the company and on the other side there impact on sport lifestyle and motivating people to strive for excellence can't be understated. I hope they make it because they are the giant in sports wear and having innovation in sports.
No, it is still relevant. In my local marathon competitions, except the elites rocking their AF3, VF3, Adios pro 3... average runners are still wearing Pegasus the most, after that come the Asics, Puma... and only me wearing Reebok
Great video as always! Anyway, I think in the near future, this CEO will be a case study on how to destroy a four-decade business powerhouse in three years.
Interesting and thought provoking. Could argue Vaporfly 4%, NEXT%, Alphafly, Peg Turbo, Dragonfly, Invincible, Tempo NEXT% all set the bar in recent years but just nothing “new” since 2021 hence a perception have sort of given up while really everybody else has just been catching up. Also think it is a brand like Apple where lots like to not like them. For sure Nike shoe videos get the most views and most ShoeTubers would not be so without starting with their shoes.
There seems to be NOTHING more in in the running world right now than hating Nike. Except for maybe the max cushion fad. And of course if a person is looking to fit in, or if they've taken up this sport as a hobby recently, or if they are the type of content creators smiling for likes, they'll have to adhere to the hate cult. It blows me away to see Chris openly praising Nike and Pegasus 41 like he does, I wonder how many followers this has costed him so far. And this says something about integrity, doesn't it? Happy runs, Tim!
@@ucatani 130 miles in my Peg 41s now - haven't worn much else since got them :) As you say there are a lot of negative "echo chamber" comments on Nike whenever a reviewer suggests the latest Nike isn't quite to their liking. Then you get puzzling comments like all Nike shoes are rubbsh these days but I haven't actually tried one for over 5 years etc etc At the end of the day runners need to find shoes that work for them and that may or may not be Nike ones. For sure though if Nike bring out a shoe there is a lot of interest in establishing this. As for subs Chris seems to be doing very well especially considering he is not a 20 something influencer travelling the world to attend every opening of an envelope event on offer. And I hope he does not start doing so :)
100% agree. It's cool to "not like Nike" and you get internet points for doing it. People have built channels on it in our space and made it part of their editorial strategy. However, I would fully agree. Literally everything we currently have in running in 2024, beyond the max cushion/early stage rocker thing from Hoka starts from Nike or Nike still leads it. Yes, other brands have caught up in most areas and/or iterated on the idea sin their own directions (which is great) but Nike is still up there as far as one of the most innovative companies, if anything by sheer size.
The Peg41 is really very good...it's not even a "hill I want to die on" type of thing. It's just a great shoe. It's praise it all the same if another brand made it. All that being said...I'm ALWAYS going to cover what I'm interested in on this channel...openly and as objectively as I can (this one is the key). Calling it like I see it and letting the viewers decide if they agree or disagree.
echo chambers are an issue. I'm very conscious of not creating an opposite "pro nike" echo chamber in the face of reality. To be honest, I was headed that direction a it last year, but saw it early and shifted my focus to make sure I was as objective as I can be (while still covering what interests me). It's definitely a fine balance. As for events and the influencer road shoe. If it's appropriate and something that aligns with my principles and interests...I'll have no issue participating. I'll cross that bridge when I get there. So far I've only said no to what has been offered, though mostly for logistical reasons (being here on the other side of the world and all).
I grew up with Nike as well, going back to the Leather Cortez and the Waffle Trainer back in the early 70s. But over the years, through track in high school and beyond, I started souring on Nike. Can't explain why. But I wish them the best. Very nice discussion, as always. Thx, Chris.
oh the Cortez…. also Waffle Trainers are iconic. Times change but Nike has been one of those constants for me always. So my fingers are always crossed for them. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
I got to admit that I’m an avid fan of their racing/running/training apparel and their carbon plated shoes. I’ve never had issues getting a hold of hyped shoes like the Alphafly either, but that’s maybe because I’m not located in Countries like the UK or the US, for us “outsiders” it was and still is a bit easier because running is less of a thing over here so demands aren’t as crazy as they are in the English speaking world. To this day, Nike works best for me, and I say that after having tried most available brands out there. Daily trainers however are not a thing with Nike, unfortunately. To discontinue the tempo next was another mistake of theirs, the zoom fly 5 was not a great shoe and I do agree, they fell off in that regard. To mostly cater to road running and leaving trail running as sort of an afterthought is another major mistake. For those shortcomings but also in general I go for other brands, especially Asics too. I don’t really believe in sticking to a specific brand anyways.
I'm very much in a small, non english speaking market and until recently it was nearly impossible to get anything from Nike beyond a Pegasus. Suddenly though they are now paying attention to their online site and it's fully stocked, but this is in the past month. The two shoes you mentioned are not daily trainers. They are both tempo or super trainers. An area Nike doesn't have a dedicated model, at the moment, but I would argue the Vaporfly 3 is the better option for this type of work. In 2024 we will see a Peg Plus and ZF6 which either should fill this slot. Nike Trail is hardly an after thought for Nike. It's a fully independent division that has done very well for itself, especially in the past 2 years. They really are showing what is possible for Nike if they focus on running communities and performance product.
@@SagasuRunning I would kindly disagree on the zoom fly 5 as a tempo trainer and the VF 3 as the better option here. The latter is inferior to its predecessor, and the other is so clunky and heavy that one can’t say for sure what it is. I have a pair and I use them for semi long runs, they’re like bricks. I also did not have any issues in getting a hold of their stuff one year ago, so I’d kindly disagree or at least agree on a disparity in availability. I mentioned the tempo next as an example of a really popular and great shoe. I love mine and i, alongside many others, never understood the discontinuation of it. I also don’t see the point in reminiscing and/or obsessing over the Pegasus, it’s a dead horse. I’d love to see a completely new daily trainer. In comparison to other brands, Nike is still significantly lacking in trail running. Not only their shoes but especially accessories like hydration vests and their presence and support in the scene are a joke and I say that as a fan of the brand. They can definitely turn this thing around though, no question about it.
Admittedly, the ZF5 is trash…. But its role in the Nike line was (as it always was) the tempo trainer. I have trained in the Vaporfly for year. Never saw a real need for a ZoomFly after the first one (though I did enjoy the ZF3 a bit). The VF has always been Nike’s best tempo or speed trainer for road running (and racing). Paired with the Alphafly 3 and a Pegasus it really covers everything the other two shoes lack. As for Alphafly availability, you may be the single person on the planet who didn’t have issues getting a pair (besides UK residents who had their pick for months). Besides the Evo 1, which had production reason for its scarcity (and the fact Adidas never wanted to sell it) the AF3 was the hardest shoe to find in running until the past few weeks. The Pegasus is still the gold standard for a classic daily trainer. We will need to agree to disagree here. Are there better options for specific types of runners or needs, yup… and I’ve pointed them out on this channel. Nike trial vest ARE trash. However, equipment is not a focus for Nike and the Nike Trail is working in a small P&L. The Wildhorse, Zegama 2 and Ultrafly are all very good for their intended purposes. I do have other preferences for trail shoes… but Nike trial has come a long way in a short time and as of 2023 are as good as anyone else in the space (personal preferences aside).
I bought my first pair of Pegs in or around 1993 and absolutely loved them. I remained a loyal Nike customer until 2019, when I fell out of love with the brand. I could never explain why I felt that way, but you summed it up pretty eloquently. They still make some good shoes but they no longer feel relevant to me.
Amazing video... Maybe a different perspective in terms of corpo what leads to the overall thing: I do a dual study, that means I attend to an unversity but also have to work on 37h/week base, there I work in a performence diagnostic center where I have to do everything, being the store manager, do gait and performence diagnostics, do also running shoe retail, preorder, orthopaedic things etc. etc. shortly: burnout incoming but everything an employer would wish for. Ending your bachelor degree with already 4years full field related work experience My plan after the study is to move to east asia, favorable South Korea, Singapore or Taiwan... so I reached my fingers out, also just to check the market. The employer experience I had with Nike was the worst experience I have ever made... and I'm in my early 30's I have seen a lot. I thought my current employer is rude and mean, but Nike put that on an entire new level. They were extremely rude, disrespectul, straight up laughing at my background (had to do everything on my own, all school degrees, training, unversity after the age of 18, so actually showing huge discipline, determinaton etc.), they L A U G H E D and made me wonder, why inviting me to a call in the first place then?? And it was not once, it happened 4 times (2times with laughing)! I have never seen such a huge amount of disrespect and arogance from an employer already in a job interview/candiate process. It just felt like a clown show from the beginning of the talk to the end they were provocing and straight up mocking. In the last call they also questioned things you dont question at all: your sexuality and "Did you grew up with a father? Hey, Asics at least wrote me a personal written Email with all my points and they just cant afford more employees wishing me the best congratulated me what I achieved in detail... Its like Amazon said: treat your canditates as your customers, because the chance is high they already are. And if you treat them like poop, they will probably stop buying. I was a huuuge Nike fanboy in the past, but yes this experience made me think twice to buy anything from Nike at least for full prices.
I’ve professionally had some experiences with Nike that were not always positive. This was years ago at an agency that was VERY aggressive and trying to take the business away from another agency (which Nike wanted). So of the people I dealt with were awful. However, when I was in my teens and early 20s I had some great experiences with some Nike reps (early ACG stuff)…. But they were Nike lifers back then, some of them were from the 1970s Nike and they still had that culture in them. Remember the pontoon “energy takers….” from the “10 principles” memo…. I’m curious how Nike resolves this at a corporate level. I’m cheering for them with fingers crossed.
Brilliant video that is full of constructive advices to help #Nike recalibrate their strategies for their running shoe business! I hope Nike will thank you one day.
Orchard Street runners mentioned 🙏🏽 glad they’re still on the scene and that Nike still helps out in the city. Currently they just brought back project moonshot, so let’s see what happens from there, it has the chance to change the landscape of running culture in NYC
I've not lived in NYC in 4 years and things changes in early 2020. That being said, seeing the instagram feeds of NYC running circles I once knew it does seem the heart beat is still there. OSR is still out there doing what they do as well...always good to see.
Fully agreed on your comment about their hunger marketing. There is several races in last winter/Spring marathon season I would like to try the AF3 but I can never get one from "normal" retail channel. The result is I went to Adidas, Saucony and ASICS. I think Nike 's marketing strategy is trying to push their customer to other rival brands. I still run on the VF3 and I love it!
Lovely video with some excellent points. I feel like this really hits home for me, as a few years ago, I was really only running in Nike running shoes like the pegasus, vomero, and streak, and I didn't look into many brands other than Nike. The Ultraboost wave in 2013 sparked my interest, but it faded quickly for me, and I still felt myself gravitating towards Nike shoes at my local running store. However, the more I think about it, over the past few years, I really have deviated from the Nike lineup in general. With that said, I don't think it's so much that I'm disinterested in Nike's products, or the company as a whole, but more so that other brands have stepped in and taken a piece of my interests within running. While Nike used to be the brand that I spent the vast majority of my time looking into, and running in, other brands have really stepped up their game and have peaked my interest. Shoes within Nike's racing lineup still continue to amaze me with the innovation and incredible times they produce among professional athletes, but other brands have released shoes that really interest me as well. More than anything, these other brands have character, and they offer this new found sense of excitement and discovery for me. While shoes from Asics didn't always interest me, I've thoroughly enjoyed them. The same could be said about Saucony's Endorphin Line that I really enjoy, or a lot of the recent New Balance shoes. My daily trainer at the moment is the Adidas SL2, a shoe that has been excellent for me over 300 miles so far. Even a brand like On, with the obscure looking midsole cutouts really ended up interesting me, even though I was very critical of the design originally. I've enjoyed their Cloudmonster daily trainer and Cloudboom echo race shoe a great deal. So I don't think it's so much that I'm no longer interested in Nike, or that Nike isn't doing enough, I really just feel like other brands have stepped up their game to the point that Nike has a lot more competition when competing for space in the market for a consumer such as myself. While Nike used to dominate the running space for me as a consumer, they've now had to share the space with other brands that have peaked my interest. Overall, I think it's a good thing, as I still enjoy the Nike releases every year, but I have even more to look out for from other brands!
I also feel this. In much of the same progression you outlined. That being said, due to this channel and all the non Nike I now run in, I find myself coming back to Nike more. Especially lately. Other brands offer some amazing shoes and feel on foot, Adidas especially so (the anti-Nike feel if you will), but still o crave that Nike feel on foot. More for training than racing as well. I finding it all fascinating at the moment. I definitely follow brands I never did before, some due to this channel, but some due to the strength of their product. This wouldn’t have been the case 10 years ago, other than the odd Adidas or barefoot shoe.
Couldn't agree more on the hunger marketing point. Asics guilty too with limited Superblast availability. I shouldn't have to feel like I have won the lottery because I have managed to get hold of a shoe I want! Great vid once again. Absolutely love your shoe reviews but this style of content always gets the cogs thinking about something other than pace/cadence etc. Top stuff.
Ya, it's disappointing to see Asics doing that. However, I learned some things about where they source their foams recently, especially FFTurbo & FFTurbo+ and now I am leaning towards production issues for them. There source for these foams can't produce them in the same volume as the, let's say, primary sources. If it's not this...then shame on Asics.
I’ve always admired Nike’s running roots, but agree the brand has lost its way in the last 5 years or so. Although I typically steer towards saucony, ASICS or new balance for daily or uptempo shoes (they seem to get discounted more often and are more widely available) I still swear by the Vaporfly 2s and the original alphaflys. Excellent shoes. As a relatively high mileage runner, I’m always on the lookout for good deals - and for that reason I’m never opposed to picking up a pair of pegs on a discount, even if they’re not necessarily up there with the best trainers in their price range. I’m glad to hear the 41 is a return to form though.
From their running line, I think Nike dropped the ball when they discontinued the Pegasus Turbo. I was able to get my hands on the Turbo 2 and was really impressed then. Was looking forward to a third but... Nothing. Then they released a Turbo next nature (belatedly) but it was a subpar shoe and was a disconnect to those two "predecessors". They lost that hold on what turned out to be the super-trainer category.
Going to be interesting to see how the Pegasus Plus is received by the paying public as it seems to be similar to that Turbo many of us loved. That said the one review of it seen so far reminded me of a "typical" Peg 41 review - if only the shoe was not acutally what it actually is as these days I can only run in shoes with max cushioning.
@@SagasuRunning It's truly an honor to witness your phenomenal growth. Your success is well-deserved, and I've learned so much from your videos. Your insights have even influenced my shoe-buying decisions, demonstrating the real impact you have on your audience. This influence comes with added responsibility, of course. I admire how you've maintained your authenticity and hope you'll continue to stay true to your unbiased views. In a world full of influencer "noise," your genuine approach stands out and is deeply appreciated. Your journey is inspiring, and I'm excited to see where it takes you next. Keep shining and sharing your unique perspective!
On point as usual. Believe in the Run just released their full review of the Peg Plus. Similar complaint as other recent Nike trainers, not enough stack at forefoot. They got into Nike’s lack of evolution toward the end. Thought you may find it interesting and of course look forward to your review of the Plus.
I watched it. I’m craving less and less stack in the forefoot so music to my ears. The Streakfly comparison and flexibility notes I also appreciate. Honestly, their lack of excitement got me more excited for the shoe. I was supposed to get my pair today but we just had a massive typhoon blow through Taiwan… things should be back to normal tomorrow though. Stay tuned.
I also like low stack shoes. The trend of max stack is not needed in every shoe. In saying that, is this Nike targeted for max profit or focus on what the customer wants or nostalgia.
@@m.ch4rmaland3r10 Good question. I don't really think it's either. What I've seen of the peg Plus, is it's not quite the magic of the Turbo 1/2 (though alot of that is nostalgia driven at this point) and its also not a shoe that is going to fly off the shelves... I cna only guess (and hope) that it's Nike engineering and design responding to asks form their athletes...
Facts and all brands need to stop asap is the hunger marketing. I want to be able to buy a shoe that’s a normally produced shoe at any moment. I understand if it’s a special design or collab but if it’s a normal blue,red, black colorway for any shoe I should be able to go buy it. I want to be able to train a few times in it then race it. Or if I want another color of a shoe that’s working well for me I should be able to just add it to my cart and purchase. And other brands do this too Iv still never been able to test out the new balance race shoe it’s always sold out. Saucony used to be great and have availability and tons of colors on the pro now it’s limited. Asics good luck getting the Edge or sky in your size.
Fully agree. If Nike wants to make the "proto" color ways exclusive and lottery based, cool. However, make it short and make sure the next color way is commonly available and easy to purchase.
Hi Chris! It's tough to see some people bashing Nike, especially regarding innovation. The Vaporfly is still a leader in its category. I've used the Next Percent 2 to qualify for the 2023 Boston and to requalify at it for 2024. I used to do this in New Balance RC 1400s, but that is another story! Recently, I have purchased a pair each of Nike Zoom Dragonfly and Nike Zoom Victory track spikes. Both are absolutely the best performing spikes in which I have ever run.
great commentary. you gave me a little hope for my favorite brand. the zoomfly flyknit made me a nike fan for life. however, other than the tempo next %, i haven’t had a bunch of fun w/ nike daily trainers. the peg and invincible are cool, but it haven’t been able to touch what new balance and adidas have been doing in the daily trainer / max trainers space.
You may like the ZF6 then. it seems it has a little ot the Tempo DNA in it with more classic ZF. The Peg is still the gold standard for me for a daily trainer, but I admit there are likely better options out there for most. I've even covered many of them on this channel. My end-of-year "best of" content is going to be so interesting this year.
That hunger marketing really pissed me as a big Nike fan. When I bought the Pegasus 39, that got me really interested in running. That shoe was phenomenal for me. As I got more into running, I also explored Nike's other shoes especially the Vaporfly 3 and the Alphafly 2. But lo and behold, I waited 3-4 months to get an AF2 and 6 months to get a VF3. During that time period I got an Adios Pro 3 in the process and that shoe changed my taste in race day shoes. If I got AF2 earlier, I might have been a solid Nike runner. 😅
From what i can observe, your statements are so valid. Nike has certainly loss its positioning with its distribution model, innovation as you and many have pointed out. Sometimes, i do think it is easy to make these statements rather than action these in a big corporation.
This is such a fantastic video Chris! Thanks for such insightful observations on Nike. I’m certainly going to seek out Geoff Hollister’s book too; having read Phil Knight’s it’ll be interesting to get an alternative viewpoint of those early years of Nike.
Geoff's book is hard to find. You can find it on archive.org for loan (with many other classic books on running....which I likely will do a video on at some point). Definitely worth seeking out. Thank you for the kind words on the content.
They already have those…. The Structure exists and there will be some new structures next year. The Pegasus Plus is a far better Mach…. Better foam, better geometry, more like the Mach 5 was…. But better.
That is true. I really miss the Nike epic react and want the Structure Plus to be similar to those shoes and the Structure Premium like the Infinity react.
The Infinity is now a casual athleisure shoe for jogging. That being said I do expect the Structure Plus to be something like the older Infinity, more performance oriented with some mild stability. The Structure Premoum may be very Arahi-esque. We shall see…. There have been no leaks at all as of yet.
I have somewhat of a different take on this. in my opinion Nike running made a terrible mistake positioning the alpha fly and vapor fly when they launched back in 17. Yes they re invented the category with carbon plated shoes and zoomx foams. Unfortunately, in doing so they positioned their top tier shoes as shoes for elite runners only, and the zoom fly for recreational and non pro athletes. I myself bought the first zoom fly and stayed away from the $250 4% because of "appearances". Somwhat of the same as is happening with adidas $500 shoes right now. But with regards to Nike in making their top performance shoes image as only for pros, they missed the mass market and tried to get out a bunch of other shoes targeting the recreational runner. Meanwhile adidas, Asics, Brooks, Puma and everyone else came out with their racing foams and carbon plated or rodded shoes without the stigma of being only for top runners and capitalized on nikes shift of the industry. I have run in Adidas Adios Pro 3, Pumas and asics top shoes, and still stirred clear of the Nikes unil their 3rd iteration (AF3 and VP3) simply because the shoes, in my mind, were still for much faster or better runners than me. Now that ive tried them with over 150km on each, they are great shoes, love them, but still i see them as the Cinderella slippers used only on certain race pace or faster sessions, and for races. Meanwhile never thought of the Adidas AP3 or the takumi zen or the Puma deviate Nitro Elite 3 as special occasion shoes. While this can be my opinion only, when i wear either Nikes VF or AF they are seen by others as a status symbol of good runners and good / fast runners who wear the somewhat look down on recreational runners wearing them. At least those are my observations. So i would say Nike did a Great Marketing effort developing their running line, but did it too well, they made the shoes so iconic and equivalent to excellence they at the same time alienated the large market of recreational runners who see the shoes as an unatainable ferrari or worthy of only BQ racers. And sales went to their competitors shoes. Only my opinion.
I would say alot of others had this opinion around 2017-2019 on Vaporflys...."I'm not fast enough...good enough...etc". Honestly, I've haven't heard anyone articulate that in a while. Nike's top tier race shoes have been commodified and I see everyone in them now. I have no issues with that, frankly. I have bigger issues with shoes being marketed as "good for a 4 or 5 hour marathon".... why limit yourself? Running in (relatively) inexpensive (compared to say cycling) and I see no reason to make second tier shoes that ultimately limit you. Everyone benefits from top tier super shoes (beyond non-responders and some edge cases) so enjoy them. VF3, AF3, AP3, Evo 1, MSEP/MSSP....are all the same tier and no one should have imposter syndrome running in any of them. They are great fun.
@@SagasuRunning Agree with you version 3 are seen more often, but in those first years they gave too much for other brands to take market share, which was my point. Nike in those first couple of years made the category to others and they capitalized. Like another commentor said, i now own only 1 pair of Nikes. I used the zoom fly and had 4 or 5 pairs, and used Adidas boston 5 - 9, before that used brooks pure and hyperion. and when i made the change to carbon plated i didnt go to Nike, went to Adidas and Puma. Anyways part of my point is that Nike instead started making more Pegasus, Vomero, invisible and other entry or casual shoes, while everyone else was focusing mainly in the top tier. Adidas used to make a huge deal of Pure Boost, then moved everything to lightingstrike pro, pure boost was for casual wear. Another problem i see is the top tier shoes are difficult to get a hold of, i had to buy my Alpha Fly 3 on StockX, everywhere else was sold out. How many sales did nike loose and went to the competition because their products are difficult to buy? As for their inner organization i really cant say, Nike still has the biggest names, and endorsments in sports, and has the largest maket share. but they have so many variants in each line and colors and want to have a pegasus pro, plus and normal and same on many different lines, i dont even want to think how many SKUs Nike has.
Like you, I spent alot of time in the original Zoom Fly and Addias Boston 6-9s…. I really miss the Bostons. I do agree with you, back then the super shoes were “exclusive” but definitely not the case any more.
I havent bought a pair of nike running shoes since VP2. There are better choices out there for the same money. However I still run with the PEG36 occasionally and it is still fine for what it is.
This is a good analysis. Nike (and Tiger and New Balance) started the running category. I think the size of the running category at Nike in your chart threw you off because its all running not just performance and that includes a lot of low priced foot covering sold at marshalls. You are right, the way to judge who a running company is is to go into Super Runners, or Brooklyn running co. etc. Nike might not be able to get back into these local running shops who are burned by e-commerce. Two other good books are Just Do It written by Rob's wife after he died, and Pitch Invasion (adidas/Puma) by Barbara Smit (she had free reign while i was at adidas to write the true story). I remember Mark Parker landed in Orlando 20 years ago and saw all the shlubs going to Disney in Nike gear and changed the company from a behemoth into lots of smaller companies with true insights into their consumer (skate, running etc.), the precursor to Rabbit and Tracksmith, he knew people want their brand to say "i am an insider in my sport". I think they will come out okay in 18 months from this, but they may never be able to capture that heritage- i think that ship has sailed.
Thank you for the Book recommendations. I'm especially interested in the Adidas/Puma story, I only know it from a surface level. Mark Parker definitely had the right idea...if only they had stuck with it. Donahoe will be remembered like Scully was for Apple. An outsider, who didn't know the space, brought it to "make sales".
@@SagasuRunning yeah, hard to escape the glow of huge sales. the Smit book is really good, it goes all the way back to the brothers, then the children- when Horst used to bring Olympic federations to a chateau and give them a suitcase full of cash. I'll hit you in your IG DMs
As a new runner (started during the pandemic) and not looking to buy carbon plated shoes, i never had anyone recommending Nike shoes to me. At my local store its all about Asics, NB and Saucony. In my mind Nike is going the way of the north face. Sure they still have products that are top of the line but more and more they are pivoting towards fashion instead of recreational atheletes.
And like North Face they, Nike has the same challenge to pivot back to performance categories for many. You nailed a very apt comparison here. Both companies have similar stories and got a little too wrapped up in the fashion/collab space and lost sight of what made them great. Some interesting business school case studies in a few years for sure.
I would argue that the Tempo was the first modern max super trainer (40+ mm, super foam, plate) and the Invincible was interesting as high stack full Peba shoe, but since then? Alpha and Vaporfly iterating, bricks like the Zoom Fly, same old for Peg and Vomero, but tons of rubish budget shoes in the outlets. A Tempo in 2020 is the last Nike that I paid sticker price for, and I got 3 Vaporflys alone since, but had they gotten something like a great Tempo 2 I would have paid to get it asap, just like I did for Superblast 1 and 2. For the retail I do get why they go direct, selling for end user price is so profitable compared to distributor that it's worth taking a hit on total numbers, and Nike is big enough to still attract customers, especially as the have a huge brick and mortar network of flagship stores and outlets.
I've made that argument on the Tempo Next %, see the "super trainers" video I linked in the description. Retail is hard, especially right now. As I said in this video, I MUCH before the direct model, not just for Nike but for any brand (and not just in running, I will rarely buy anything from 3rd parties unless I have too for anything).... so Nike has some work ahead of it to rebuild the connections it had for YEARS.
Nike needs to rethink its positioning with respect to fair contracts with female athletes. And also coaching practices around body composition and pushing (or crossing the line) on PEDs. There needs to be some soul searching and very substantive changes. In addition to that they seem to have stiff-armed the independent running shops in favor of direct to consumer to an extent that they aren’t being stocked anymore. That also seems to be a channel sales problem.
Agree...but honestly these are both 2018/19 stories. All the drama around Nike's athlete contracts back them definitely was not good...but it put a spotlight on the entire industry and how athletes are treated, mostly female but also male. No brand in running is innocent here. However, there is more transparency out there about i all since. Is it enough, unlikely...but it is an industry problem...not a Nike only problem. As for the retail partnerships...they have acknowledged this mistake. It will be interesting to see what they can rebuild.
I believe that Nike is the largest sponsor of track and field in the US and it’s the Team USA Olympic apparel sponsor. That’s high profile. I don’t see that Nike did very much in the wake of revelations of the poor treatment of Kara Goucher, Alyson Felix, Mary Cain, Lauren Fleshman… these are off the top of my head. On the other hand they stood behind Alberto Salazar for a long time. There is a big disconnect between their Just Do It marketing and upbeat cool ad campaigns and their revealed behavior in the sport of Track and Field, which is very dark -- do anything to win including cheat if you can get away with it and discard anyone that isn't winning right now.
Again… 2018/19…. So much has already been said about this all as well as changed. Dark, indeed, but no brand is completely innocent here, in athletics or otherwise. Sponsor contracts and predatory unless you are the top of the top and can call the shots (which is rare). The Salazar thing was unfortunate…. However it’s not something I’m going to forever hold against the company. Every brand name has skeletons in their closet…. It’s the reality…. In athletics or not. I was surprised how much they stood behind Salazar and for how long…. Because Nike has thrown others under the bus immediately in the past. But he did go way back for the brand…. Almost to the Pre days. Regardless times change. Organizations change. Outlooks change.
11:10, 22:20 Totally agree. Adidas, On, Hoka, and even Brooks are really tapping into this and excelling at it. They also have good relationships with retail partners and smaller stores in the US. You will find these brands latest shoes and carbon race day shoes at independent retailers where you won't find a vaporfly or alpha fly. You may have a pegasus or nike spike on the wall but thats about it. They need to retool things in that space. Absolutely ridiculous you can't find a VF or AF locally or online From an innovation standpoint aside from establishing the super trainer trend and their race shoes Nike has failed terribly with innovating regular performance like the JoyRide but hopefully they get it right with their next cycle.
Ya, those retail ties are going to be tricky for Nike to rebuild after the past 2-3 years of neglect. JoyRide...well that was never a performance things, more of a casual jogger thing...but yes, they spent too much time and effort on those type of athleisure techs that really didn't work out.
This whole making shoes “exclusive” such as superblasts or alphafly can be a pro and con for sales. It can build hype to an extent but you do it all the time and consumers will get fed up and not bother. When it comes to real runners they usually want to know they can get the shoe they need when they need it and for fair price because you tend through shoes. ASICS is copying some of Nikes marketing strategies and it will backfire if they do the exclusive hype approach too much.
Nike is 100% due to hunger marketing as it’s their playbook for years, even at the detriment of actual runners. Asics however, I’m not sure if it’s hunger marketing or supply chain issues. I recently learned where Asics sources its foams, primarily its new PEBA FFturbo+…. Knowing this I’m aware that getting enough of the material is likely an issue. The Superblasts sell 2 to 1, maybe more, over the Metaspeeds… so getting enough foam maybe be their issue.
Nike can very easy turn it around. Just feed their tier 1 tech to their everyday and long runs shoes. What's holding them back appears to be intentionally withholding this tech and trying to separate racing to their every day runners both from a shoe and user stand point. Resting on laurels while the rest of the industry has really caught up. These days the difference between top tiers from a dozen brands is minimal and every runners from other brands have superceeded. How relevant has the pegasus line really been? Probably still sells well despite being a subpar product
They already do this and have done this for years. ZoomX, CF plates, Airpods, flyknit...all have been available in non racers for years. I'd argue the Pegasus is extremely relevant, possible the one of the most relevant shoe yearly. Not all of us want to be running in max stack, plates, rockered everything all of the time. The Peg is that iterative type of innovation that gets more and more refined. Solid, dependable and it works....not some trendy fad that comes and goes in a season or two.
@@SagasuRunning so what is the reason for them not having exciting shoes in the daily, tempo and long run bracket? As far as daily trainers go, I have seem recommendations for novablast, adizero sl2, and many from others. Pegasus not on the radar of runners these days. But if you pop into a store with no research then those are the people who are buying pegasus.
I know we are speaking in generalities and about the US market (mostly) but if you expand your lens to the rest of the world. I would say Nike makes “exciting” shoes. Here in Asia, in Taiwan…. If I see a runner in Nike, more often than not it will be Pegs or Vaporflys. In Japan I’d say the vast majority of Nike runners, which is the biggest proportion of runners in Japan, are in Pegs for training. Japanese run influencers/UA-camrs are VERY pro Pegasus. Even among Japanese Nike pros almost all of them train in Pegs and occasionally in Vomeros. Zoom Fly 5s are also oddly popular here in Asia and I still see plants of Streakflys, even here in Taiwan. I would argue Nike does make “exciting” shoes for runners. But in the US the running media and influencers (more the ones outside of Shoetubers, more the fitness/athleisure ones) are very pro Hoka and On (especially now with Zendaya signing with On) which speaks more to where those companies spend their marketing budgets. I would also say there are a handful of us on Shoetube who are also pro Pegasus. The Run Testers, Ben Parkes, Tim Grose and myself have all published positive Peg41 reviews. Speaking for myself, I do recognize there are better options for specific types of running over the Peg41…. But the Peg41 is the shoe I’ve been reaching for because the feel is so spot on toe at I want out of a running shoe. I do think Nike’s new tier structure will allow them to keep their standard models trend/fad free, for those of us who want transitional or solid trainers free of gimmicks…. While offering more “modern” and “innovative” tiers in the same silhouette. From what I’ve seen on the horizon for Nike there will be a few trainers that should do well. As for Pegasus sales. I bet they do well for Nike. Maybe not as large of a percentage that say the Brooks Ghost does…. But overall well. Same for the Invincible. In the pockets of running I used to be around in NYC… almost all Nike runners are training in Invincibles and racing in Alphaflys.
They really do need to get into the super trainer market, the market is started to get flooded with them, because people love them, yet Nike still has none, which is weird, since they're often the leaders when it comes to innovation.
The Zoom Fly 6 should slot in there well. However, the winds are changing on the whole super trainer thing. In the next two years they will be far less important than they are right now. Trends and fads in running come and go. Luckily the super trainer thing is burning hot and fast.
So many runners I know race in AP or VP, and wear none of their other shoes. They’re putting effort into shoes they have to because experienced and elite runners don’t care about the name and will know if the shoe doesn’t stack up. The rest of their lineup is purely banking on brand loyalty IMO.
I would agree to a point. I do think they have prioritized their races shoe for results (and their elites). I also think they are listening to what their pros and elites want to train in as well....which is different than what the general public wants. They need to find a better way of balancing this though.
@23:06 I hate dumb games like those shoe lotteries, too. However, I acknowledge that there are many who love it, and some who make a luxurious living off it.
Sneaker resellers are a plague on the entire space. The reseller market, on it's own is fine...but the automated ways many go about it are not. When you get into performance product it's even worst. It is a tough problem to solve but Nike seems to only want to pander to it until very recently...
I’m going to piggyback on some other comments. We all know when Nike releases their proto colorways, they’re going to fly off the shelves like people trying to get those Black Friday sales at Walmart. Once that calms down, the availability should be more widespread. Personally, I don’t even check inventory on the AF3. It’s not worth it to me. Same with the Superblast. That’s a shoe that interests me way more than a true race shoe anyway. I don’t think ASICS was prepared for the popularity for the V1, so I get it. As far as the V2, they knew it would be a big seller right off the bat. I did preorder my pair within a couple hours of availability, and my order was pushed back a week from the original expected shipping date. I’ve read that some people still haven’t received their preorders. When these companies announce a release date or offer preorders for a product, have it ready to go. Yes, they’re going to still sell their shoes, but at the same time they’re turning people off from that model or even that brand when they can’t get it.
See...I was thinking about this. I have no issue with the "proto" colorway (or special colorways) being exclusive and/or lottery based, it's fine. Just make sure one can buy the shoe in a "standard" colorway from the start. Then they can play their forced exclusivity games however they want. It is frustrating to see Asics's going the same route with the Superblast...however, I'm beginning to think it's more an inventory thing for them than actual "hunger marketing". I leaned some things recently about their supply chain and whee they source their foams from, especially FFTurbo+, which makes me think they are struggling to produce enough of the material to make the shoes. Superblasts seem in much higher volumes than the Metaspeeds. I also think there is some logistics and inventory mismanagement on Asics's part. For example there are Superblast 2s on nearly ever Asics store shelf here in Taiwan at the moment. Even in stores I have never seen a Superblast at prior. We also have Metaspeeds, both the Edge & Sky, available in the bigger stories here. However, thats not the case in many countries. For example, the UK only recently got the Metaspeed Edge, months after the Sky...it is all very odd.
@@SagasuRunning Here in Europe, many of their models are hard to find, mostly because they simply don't sell a lot of their products outside of Asia...
It's not the end of Nike, it's just been a very rough year for consumer discretionary. Certainly not the place to invest in at the moment. But these things are cyclical, it will come back.
I think your point about bureaucracy is wrong. The reorganisation that redefined and consolidated around "product categories" might have simplified the org chart and removed bureaucracy, but it killed the sport specific experience, passion, and drive that lead to innovation. It's no mystery why nike has fallen off so much when they are instead developing product as "mens-performance", or "mens-lifestyle" rather than running, football, basketball. Further proof is that the CEO in his infinite wisdom was forced to do another 180 so product development is again focused back on "fields of play."
I agree with your point but this IS bureaucracy. Even though the headcount was reduced managers where instilled to oversee all of these verticals, with no real understanding of what was in the actual vertical at a category level. That is CLASSIC bureaucracy.
nike is even losing out in soccer/football boots fr...when adidas launch the new predator and f50 this year...they become hot topics among the bootheads! i just hope that doesn't end like nokia...from adidas running fan.
Nokia's issues were far more fatal. Nike is nowhere near that far gone. I don't follow soccer (football) reallya t all but have been watching alot of global soccer (football) business videos lately. The Nike vs Adidas battle is even more aggressive there than running...at the athlete and club level...and now federation. The German federation thing, moving to Nike, was massive. As an outsider, it's interesting to watch. Especially when I have an interest in both brands in other areas.
The main issue I see, from an average runner's perspective is that I always find better shoes than Nike's across all segments. Daily trainer? Peg is way below Novablast or Ride or Clifton 9. Speed trainer? I call the Zoom Fly 5 "Nike Coffin". Saucony Speed or Mack are a lot better. Stability shoes? Not existent - Structure is c**p. Long run..nothing close to superblast. As far as I see in the reviews, I am not alone in this choice. I do believe they need to be more consumer oriented towards the average consumer as we do more miles and use more "normal shoes" than af and vf. Or they will perish as a brand
Nike has parity with all the shoes a runner would need except really the “super trainer “, which I’m personally not a fan of (I’d rather do fast running in a real super shoe, not a compromise…. And daily running is best done in something lower and flexible like a Pegasus)…. But I agree the Zoom Fly 5 is awful…. Absolutely awful.
This is good for Nike, and even better for us. Their aura and mythology is quickly evaporating. They are going to come out with some incredibly unique and forward thinking shoe technology. They have the money and experts...if they didn't they'll buy them. They just got lazy. Meanwhile, I'll be over here using every other brand until then. Don't be a brand slave and you'll never go home starving.
Actually, I agree with you. Though I think we are already seeing some of the "great" shoes coming out in 2024 from Nike and hopefully they are signs of more to come.
Ahhh DTC (direct to consumer)…what American Airlines did in 2023 and failed miserably at. Even firing their CCO for it, and now rolling back on it and trying to mend all the damaged channel relationships. With no acceptance from the CEOs of the massive blunder, even if it tanked the stock and has cost them millions in consecutive quarters. Maybe they copied Nike’s idea.
Nah, John Donahoe came from eBay...and had zero understanding (or care) of Nike's DNA. DTC made sense from his background, but he was the wrong choice. Oddly similar to the John Scully era of Apple...
Sagasu, tell me your thoughts. Nike is missing out on a massive marketing technique and product innovation that they already pay for. Why not give their HUGE athlete names a named product “designed by them” They have Jakob ingebrigsten who is definitely the most talked about name in track and field. He trains very uniquely and wins races. Perfect for a Jakob shoe. Let him get with Nike designers and design his dream trainer and racer. All the marketing could be about how his trainer is perfect for his double threshold training which everyone is trying right now. I really think a “Ingy Pegasus” or whatever they want to call it would sell like crazy. They have so many big name athletes they could use too
Personally I'd NEVER buy "athlete edition" models. I have zero interest in that. Also, Nike has never done that with running shoes and I feel like that is now a golden rule for the brand. However, the Alphafly 2 is as close as (I think) we will ever see a Nike running shoe athlete model. That was Eliud Kipchoge's shoe, really designed for him and him alone, "Air Kipchoge" if you will. Nike worked with EK on the AF2 much like you mentioned as well. If they never named that one for EK...it will never happen. I could see athlete color ways, much like the EK editions last year...but not much more. If this "golden rule" ever changed for Nike Running it would be a huge internal shift and would come with a whole bunch other consequences that would send the line in directions that would not be good.
@@SagasuRunning I value your insight, why do you think it would be such a failure? We’ve seen how well it has worked for Nike in basketball, and running is an even more footwear dependent sport. Seems like it would be a winning formula to me. Wouldn’t necessarily have to name the shoes after athletes. If they got Jakob to say “ I worked in depth with the Nike team to design this shoe to perfectly suit my training style” and then explained specific features he liked I think that shoe would break sales records. Just my opinion though
And I agree the Kipchoge marketing with Alphafly 2 is essentially what I am describing and the alphafly is a great success. I think I also recall Kipchoge releasing an add for Original Pegasus turbo stating he helped design the perfect training shoe, and we all know how successful that was. One more example, and a shoe you should seriously consider reviewing. Adidas Terrex Agravic Speed was heavily influenced by Tom Evan’s training preferences. I just picked it up and it is brilliant, probably going to be my shoe of the year
It’s just not how Nike handles running. Jordan created the archetype for basketball and everyone who came after than wanted to follow so Nike (and other brands) had no choice. I don’t think anyone (brand) wants to create that paradigm in running. As far as Nike elites working on the product…. They all do, some more than others, but they all have massive input. This is why Nike racing shoes often feel a little too tuned to an elite runner. They all already have massive input and marketing already shows that story.
It’s bigger than that. The AF2 was literally designed to EK’s tastes and stride. It’s why it only really worked for him and you rarely saw any other top Nike athlete in them. If Nike never called that the “Air Kipchoge”, at the peak of EK hype, it’s never happening. Runners, no matter how big they are in running, are minor as household names. Even a mid tier basketball pro is a bigger name than a top elite runner. Marketing needs to work and to market a name you need name recognition. The EK color ways were just another color way and I bet the didn’t do that well compared to all the others across those shoes. I remember EK talking about the Tempo Next % and promoting it as the ultimate training shoe in videos. I never remember EK talking about the Turbo…. Not do I ever remember seeing him in a pair…. Ever. I’m well aware of Tom Evans involvement with the new Terrax line. Sadly, Addias doesn’t sell any of their trial shoes here in Taiwan…. So I simply can’t get a pair. I will be in The States in Sept and may look for a pair though…. I’m curious about them.
Nike running shoes are some of the best shoes. Alphafly is my best with the Sky Paris second. Get back to making shoes available, and showcasing in ads. They definitely have stop making great commercials. Just do it
Wait. So you’re saying the brand that made the most advanced super shoe for the fast marathon runner isn’t innovating? The same brand that had to fight to keep that same shoe from being banned in the Olympics? The same one that’s iterated since the first version. And had every other running brand create their own version of? All within the last 2 years? 🤔 interesting
...and they basically dropped the "free" series years ago (it is still around but not what it was). Interestingly, I do think you'll see it making a come back in the coming years.
Since it’s CEO changed, they completely focus on digital services and left behind innovation. They remaster old models for sneaker heads and left their runners behind. I used to buy only Nike, and this year I bought Saucony and Asics, even recommended my family to buy these shoes. Their inventory sucks, their marketing now a days suck, their value for me ( price/ quality) is not there for me compared to other brands. They are just… a boring proposal.
Agree here....John Donahoe was a massive misstep for Nike. Oddly, very similar to Apple's John Sculley era. Similar stories, bringing in CEOs from different backgrounds to the respective companies to focus on "selling more". Both CEOs never understood the DNA of the company nor ever cared and it showed with their strategies.
So many runners agree that Nike makes the top racing shoes but all their other shoes are just meh. Also their trail shoes. They don't need to be super innovative, but if you just look at the weight and the build quality, it's just mediocre. The Peg's are great for your every day runner. The ones that go out for 1-2 hours a week and never look beyond the Peg. And Nike sells a lot of them. Mainly through brand loyalty and marketing. But more serious runners just see so many shoes that are so much better. I think they don't see the need to improve on those shoes because they sell a lot anyway.
Nike trail has come quite a long way. The Wildhorse, Zegama 2 and Ultrafly 2 are a compelling trail rotation on par with just about anything else out there. Nike Teial can show the way for the rest of the brand right now. I also agree that Nike sells a lot of Pegs. It’s an anyone shoe. I bet for every Novablast sold Nike sells 3-5 Pegs, granted most of those are bought by people jogging a few hours a week… but they is the beauty of the Peg… it’s a do anything for any runner type of shoe. In some cases I think there are better options than Nike trainers, especially if a runner is on current trend… but at the same time Nike has a full rotation line that covers all the bases very well. In my mind it’s adding some product that appeals to current trends and fads in running…. But marketing and retail relationships are much more important for them to do better with.
I started running in 1977, and the next thirty+ years I was a total Nike fanatic. But the last 15 or so years, Nike has dropped the ball. Apart from the Vaporfly and Alphafly, their running line is DOA to me.
Wait, but how can we say "apart from the Vaporfly and Alphafly"? We can't disregard what these models did to running shoes, running as a sport, and even shoetubbing at large.
They need to shift more attention back to their running base. It was a shame they didn't have any great product lines or clothing celebrating the 50th anniversary or Pre's anniversary. It's also upsetting that other countries get first access to new shoes from a US based company. I also don't see the benefits of being a nike member when the only thing they give you is a 10% discount on your birthday👎
Agree they need to shift attention back to their running heritage (thus this video). In some ways I’m glad they aren’t milking “Pre” anymore…. But at the same time given his importance to the early days of Nike (as an employee AND runner) and it being 50years…. Ya… missed opportunity that. I’ve been a Nike member since 2002…. I like the history I can see but wish they did more with the account. Like what they used to do in the Nike+ days.
@@SagasuRunning I would hope they could possible milk today's runners considering the talent that is out there in track and field and today's distance women runners are popular impart to their mastery of social media in which they share their trials in tribulations of training which makes them relatable to everyday runners.
Nike is really leveraging their track athletes as of late. Both male and female. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that. I also really enjoyed their recent “Winning isn’t for everyone” spot. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that Nike.
I’m a pretty new runner (8 months) but other than the Pegasus, Vaporfly & Alphafly, I couldn’t name you a Nike running shoe. The Pegasus line seems okay but a bit overpriced and the other two are way too expensive, even when compared to most other race shoes. I went with Puma, New Balance and ASICS. I think they all make much better shoes for less money, especially PUMA - DN2 & DNE3 are amazing. I’d turn to Mizuno, Saucony and Adidas for future shoes before Nike I also do not think Nike makes very good quality running clothes. The few t shirts of theirs I’ve tried all irritated my skin. I think Under Armour & New Balance again make much better running clothes than Nike Until Nike seriously improve the quality of the majority of their products, and preferably make them better value for money, I’ll continue to avoid them
Nike's outerwear is tricky. Most of it is awful and finding the good pieces is hard and near impossible in stores. However their Aeroswift line is some of the best outerwear you can buy in running. Finding it is the hard part...and that is the story of Nike at the moment. Sifting through all the crap they make to find the quality is hard and for a new consumer of the brand it's often not worth the effort, especially when other brands make it (a bit) easier.
Ah but those 3 are arguably the 3 best known shoes in recent years from any brand new. I certainly would need to think very hard to name say 3 Mizuno shoes and like to think of myself as a bit of a shoe geek. Also I guess that is Nike's problem if you are seemingly dismissing their products without actually trying them. Also I think there is an element that most shoes are now pretty good these days and it is really finding the ones that fit you best with the type of ride you like.
No offense, but your account is a diagnosis and a textbook example of what brand cult fallacy has become. Maybe you should read "Kicksology" for a start. Happy runs!
@@TimGrose admittedly my very first pair of proper running shoes were the wave rider 27, and I’ve really enjoyed them, which helped me form a good perception of the brand. I’m also aware of the “Ultima” line and the new(ish) Neo Vista. I know of the rebellion line too. I’d struggle to tell you any more of their shoes without googling I do agree with you though, with my limited experience of trying running shoes I haven’t found any shoes yet that I’ve disliked, other than the Kiprun KD900x. I also think the Novablast 4 is a bit overrated If Nike didn’t promote the Alphafly’s 24/7 I’d have considered trying their mid range shoes, but by promoting the Alphafly’s so much it gives me the impression they don’t really care about any of their lesser shoes
Nike does not make good shoes for any running except the race. Very few of a runners' miles are spent actually racing. There are just too many flaws in all their other categories of shoe. All of their major competitors have better foams in their daily trainers and tempo shoes. Nike doesn't even have a max cushion/recovery shoe - never mind - the Invincible. But, Nike shoes are generally firmer, heavier, and have a less comfortable upper than Asics, Saucony, New Balance, and Hoka. Getting a 30-40% market share of race day is awesome for them. But, far more shoes overall are consumed and more money is spent on the daily miles between races. Also you really got to credit Adidas and their boost as being the first to introduce a "super foam".
Adidas's Boost foam wasn't quite a super foam, but ti definitely was a proto-super foam. It shifted much emphasis onto foams, which wasn't there prior. I've discussed this in other videos as well. As for personal taste. I would say Nike's product line has been oddly lean in performance training for the past 2 years. But their product line restructuring is going to give them parity in each category against other brands starting this fall.
Basketball is not Soccer (football) , outside of North America it is a minor sport . So it does not surprise me that running is still the largest chunk. rationalize , increase quality(and price if needs be ) and become less preachy (US west coast values do not export well to a lot of markets) . You pretty much nailed it in your video so I decided to spit ball some other idea's. I have dropped Asics from my purchasing because they have gone direct to consumer in the UK outside of their flashy Large city stores.
Basketball in Asia is possibly the biggest sport and Nike and Jordan are the kings of it. Also Soccer (football) is massive worldwide and I figure sit would be larger. I’m happy running is still as large as it is for them though. It means it will get priority moving forward.
@@SagasuRunning Your reply shows my naivety on Basketball (still stuck in the early 80's when I left the states ) . Thanks (slightly embarrassed) . When I finish work I will read up on it 🙂
Ha. No worries. I was shocked too when I first started coming to Asia. Basketball is bigger here than The States. Especially in Taiwan and China. “Basketball style” is also huge here…. And Jordan is bigger than Nike overall. It was crazy to me.
@@SagasuRunning And Asians don’t do well in basketball as a sport. Popularity of basketball clothes has a lot to do with rap music culture and dancing scene.
Have always thought with Basketball shoes that, in the UK at least, next to nobody is buying them to actually play Basketball in whereas with running shoes got to think must be a higher relative use for actual running - well bar the lifestyle retro remakes. Nike UK has loads of basketball models on offer but most of them look more geared up for casual. Is that the case in the places mentioned where the sport itself is actually popular or is it "really" just popular to watch rather than do it yourself?
Too much focus on "the other thing". Maybe market and make shoes for real runners and I say this as someone having purchased 4 Vaporflys, 5 Tempos and 10 Alphaflys.
Re: hunger marketing, I don't think Nike seems to understand that they're boxing out people who want to get ahold of their race day shoes in-line with their fall/spring races. I saw so many comments on people giving up on the Alphafly and going with something else for spring races. People want the shoes in time to test run them and incorporate them into key workouts, not to play guesswork with the availability.
Fully agree. However, I think the marketing group in charge of it all doesn’t seem to care. They just want to milk the bottom line so they look better to their managers. That’s what’s frustrating. It has no place in an athlete first company making performance gear.
Asics kinda did it too with the Superblast 1. And seems “it worked” for them, given the experimental nature of the Superblast (as a sort of internal project). We have to acid test the distribution and availability of the SB 2, to see if they decided to go mainstream with it throughout their channels
Same can be somewhat said about Asics and their SuperBlast availability. They can consistently stock every Dicks/Footlocker/FleetFeet with multiple colorways of Nimbus 26, but they only make a certain amount of SuperBlast. Cmon Asics...
@@fecardona true, I think the difference there is partially where that shoe sits in rotation, partially the fact that a lot of people are still running in the SB1. With the Alphafly/race day shoes, I think people are more eager to have the newest version (especially with the AF2 being regarded as a step back from the original Alphafly). I also tend to think Asics changed their marketing approach quite a bit since the original Superblast *didn't* get universally rave reviews until reviewers realized it needed a break-in period, and everyone trashed the initial $220 release price. It felt like the scarcity started after the price drop, and after the "first reviews" were kind of revisited and modified. Yet...Asics is also doing demo runs with BITR this summer and seems to have enough shoes for the sake of creating that hype and getting folks to wear-test them at events. It's an interesting marketing strategy for sure.
Yeah that hunger marketing non-sense is the sole reason why I tried my first non-Nike race day shoe and now I don't even look to nike for running shoes. When the comparable alternatives are both cheaper and more easily obtainable.
I went from all Nike to all Asics. 😂 Nike has seriously been struggling. Right now I only own one Nike shoe: Vomero 17. The big comeback story is Asics especially the last 4-5 years. You might want to cover that story. It should be interesting.
I've covered that story in multiple videos. No doubt Asics has had a great run in the past 5 years. 2024 seems a little iffy for them...I hope they aren't resorting back to old ways...but no doubt they have done well.
I'm sure this has been said before but if Nike running didn't have the AF and VF they will be irrelevant in the running world.
Well if we don’t have the VF and 2017 didn’t happen…. Running overall would be VERY different than it is now.
Those 2 just happen to best in class. They have been holding on on innovation, brand loyalty and nostalgia.
Im divided on Nike. For one I feel they should have done better many years ago with child labor and cheap wages which will always haunt the company and on the other side there impact on sport lifestyle and motivating people to strive for excellence can't be understated. I hope they make it because they are the giant in sports wear and having innovation in sports.
No, it is still relevant. In my local marathon competitions, except the elites rocking their AF3, VF3, Adios pro 3... average runners are still wearing Pegasus the most, after that come the Asics, Puma... and only me wearing Reebok
Clearly thats a lie your just a Nike hater even the regular shoes like Pegasus is better than the competitors by a long shot
It would be great to promote some of the folks from the Nike Trail division, because they are doing it right.
Agree. Fully agree. Nike trail has such a different vibe as well. It’s odd to think it’s the same company.
Great video as always!
Anyway, I think in the near future, this CEO will be a case study on how to destroy a four-decade business powerhouse in three years.
Agree. He was the wrong choice for Nike and I hope to board has learned some prerequisites for the next hire.
Interesting and thought provoking. Could argue Vaporfly 4%, NEXT%, Alphafly, Peg Turbo, Dragonfly, Invincible, Tempo NEXT% all set the bar in recent years but just nothing “new” since 2021 hence a perception have sort of given up while really everybody else has just been catching up. Also think it is a brand like Apple where lots like to not like them. For sure Nike shoe videos get the most views and most ShoeTubers would not be so without starting with their shoes.
There seems to be NOTHING more in in the running world right now than hating Nike. Except for maybe the max cushion fad.
And of course if a person is looking to fit in, or if they've taken up this sport as a hobby recently, or if they are the type of content creators smiling for likes, they'll have to adhere to the hate cult.
It blows me away to see Chris openly praising Nike and Pegasus 41 like he does, I wonder how many followers this has costed him so far.
And this says something about integrity, doesn't it?
Happy runs, Tim!
@@ucatani 130 miles in my Peg 41s now - haven't worn much else since got them :) As you say there are a lot of negative "echo chamber" comments on Nike whenever a reviewer suggests the latest Nike isn't quite to their liking. Then you get puzzling comments like all Nike shoes are rubbsh these days but I haven't actually tried one for over 5 years etc etc At the end of the day runners need to find shoes that work for them and that may or may not be Nike ones. For sure though if Nike bring out a shoe there is a lot of interest in establishing this. As for subs Chris seems to be doing very well especially considering he is not a 20 something influencer travelling the world to attend every opening of an envelope event on offer. And I hope he does not start doing so :)
100% agree. It's cool to "not like Nike" and you get internet points for doing it. People have built channels on it in our space and made it part of their editorial strategy. However, I would fully agree. Literally everything we currently have in running in 2024, beyond the max cushion/early stage rocker thing from Hoka starts from Nike or Nike still leads it. Yes, other brands have caught up in most areas and/or iterated on the idea sin their own directions (which is great) but Nike is still up there as far as one of the most innovative companies, if anything by sheer size.
The Peg41 is really very good...it's not even a "hill I want to die on" type of thing. It's just a great shoe. It's praise it all the same if another brand made it. All that being said...I'm ALWAYS going to cover what I'm interested in on this channel...openly and as objectively as I can (this one is the key). Calling it like I see it and letting the viewers decide if they agree or disagree.
echo chambers are an issue. I'm very conscious of not creating an opposite "pro nike" echo chamber in the face of reality. To be honest, I was headed that direction a it last year, but saw it early and shifted my focus to make sure I was as objective as I can be (while still covering what interests me). It's definitely a fine balance.
As for events and the influencer road shoe. If it's appropriate and something that aligns with my principles and interests...I'll have no issue participating. I'll cross that bridge when I get there. So far I've only said no to what has been offered, though mostly for logistical reasons (being here on the other side of the world and all).
10k - congrats!
Thank you. 🙏🏻
I grew up with Nike as well, going back to the Leather Cortez and the Waffle Trainer back in the early 70s. But over the years, through track in high school and beyond, I started souring on Nike. Can't explain why. But I wish them the best. Very nice discussion, as always. Thx, Chris.
oh the Cortez…. also Waffle Trainers are iconic. Times change but Nike has been one of those constants for me always. So my fingers are always crossed for them. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
@@SagasuRunning 👍
@Wings_nut I’ve got some content coming in August you will get a kick out of. Stay tuned.
@@SagasuRunning Don't tease me like that. 😀
I got to admit that I’m an avid fan of their racing/running/training apparel and their carbon plated shoes. I’ve never had issues getting a hold of hyped shoes like the Alphafly either, but that’s maybe because I’m not located in Countries like the UK or the US, for us “outsiders” it was and still is a bit easier because running is less of a thing over here so demands aren’t as crazy as they are in the English speaking world. To this day, Nike works best for me, and I say that after having tried most available brands out there.
Daily trainers however are not a thing with Nike, unfortunately. To discontinue the tempo next was another mistake of theirs, the zoom fly 5 was not a great shoe and I do agree, they fell off in that regard.
To mostly cater to road running and leaving trail running as sort of an afterthought is another major mistake.
For those shortcomings but also in general I go for other brands, especially Asics too. I don’t really believe in sticking to a specific brand anyways.
I'm very much in a small, non english speaking market and until recently it was nearly impossible to get anything from Nike beyond a Pegasus. Suddenly though they are now paying attention to their online site and it's fully stocked, but this is in the past month.
The two shoes you mentioned are not daily trainers. They are both tempo or super trainers. An area Nike doesn't have a dedicated model, at the moment, but I would argue the Vaporfly 3 is the better option for this type of work. In 2024 we will see a Peg Plus and ZF6 which either should fill this slot.
Nike Trail is hardly an after thought for Nike. It's a fully independent division that has done very well for itself, especially in the past 2 years. They really are showing what is possible for Nike if they focus on running communities and performance product.
@@SagasuRunning I would kindly disagree on the zoom fly 5 as a tempo trainer and the VF 3 as the better option here. The latter is inferior to its predecessor, and the other is so clunky and heavy that one can’t say for sure what it is. I have a pair and I use them for semi long runs, they’re like bricks.
I also did not have any issues in getting a hold of their stuff one year ago, so I’d kindly disagree or at least agree on a disparity in availability.
I mentioned the tempo next as an example of a really popular and great shoe. I love mine and i, alongside many others, never understood the discontinuation of it.
I also don’t see the point in reminiscing and/or obsessing over the Pegasus, it’s a dead horse. I’d love to see a completely new daily trainer.
In comparison to other brands, Nike is still significantly lacking in trail running. Not only their shoes but especially accessories like hydration vests and their presence and support in the scene are a joke and I say that as a fan of the brand.
They can definitely turn this thing around though, no question about it.
Admittedly, the ZF5 is trash…. But its role in the Nike line was (as it always was) the tempo trainer.
I have trained in the Vaporfly for year. Never saw a real need for a ZoomFly after the first one (though I did enjoy the ZF3 a bit). The VF has always been Nike’s best tempo or speed trainer for road running (and racing). Paired with the Alphafly 3 and a Pegasus it really covers everything the other two shoes lack.
As for Alphafly availability, you may be the single person on the planet who didn’t have issues getting a pair (besides UK residents who had their pick for months). Besides the Evo 1, which had production reason for its scarcity (and the fact Adidas never wanted to sell it) the AF3 was the hardest shoe to find in running until the past few weeks.
The Pegasus is still the gold standard for a classic daily trainer. We will need to agree to disagree here. Are there better options for specific types of runners or needs, yup… and I’ve pointed them out on this channel.
Nike trial vest ARE trash. However, equipment is not a focus for Nike and the Nike Trail is working in a small P&L. The Wildhorse, Zegama 2 and Ultrafly are all very good for their intended purposes. I do have other preferences for trail shoes… but Nike trial has come a long way in a short time and as of 2023 are as good as anyone else in the space (personal preferences aside).
I bought my first pair of Pegs in or around 1993 and absolutely loved them. I remained a loyal Nike customer until 2019, when I fell out of love with the brand. I could never explain why I felt that way, but you summed it up pretty eloquently. They still make some good shoes but they no longer feel relevant to me.
I go through phases...but ultimately a shoe brings me back to Nike. It's happend multiple times over the years.
Me too, mid '70s nike wimbledons, xtrainers, first air maxses etc. Never came around.
Amazing video...
Maybe a different perspective in terms of corpo what leads to the overall thing:
I do a dual study, that means I attend to an unversity but also have to work on 37h/week base, there I work in a performence diagnostic center where I have to do everything, being the store manager, do gait and performence diagnostics, do also running shoe retail, preorder, orthopaedic things etc. etc. shortly: burnout incoming but everything an employer would wish for.
Ending your bachelor degree with already 4years full field related work experience
My plan after the study is to move to east asia, favorable South Korea, Singapore or Taiwan... so I reached my fingers out, also just to check the market.
The employer experience I had with Nike was the worst experience I have ever made... and I'm in my early 30's I have seen a lot. I thought my current employer is rude and mean, but Nike put that on an entire new level.
They were extremely rude, disrespectul, straight up laughing at my background (had to do everything on my own, all school degrees, training, unversity after the age of 18, so actually showing huge discipline, determinaton etc.), they L A U G H E D and made me wonder, why inviting me to a call in the first place then??
And it was not once, it happened 4 times (2times with laughing)! I have never seen such a huge amount of disrespect and arogance from an employer already in a job interview/candiate process.
It just felt like a clown show from the beginning of the talk to the end they were provocing and straight up mocking.
In the last call they also questioned things you dont question at all: your sexuality and "Did you grew up with a father?
Hey, Asics at least wrote me a personal written Email with all my points and they just cant afford more employees wishing me the best congratulated me what I achieved in detail...
Its like Amazon said: treat your canditates as your customers, because the chance is high they already are. And if you treat them like poop, they will probably stop buying.
I was a huuuge Nike fanboy in the past, but yes this experience made me think twice to buy anything from Nike at least for full prices.
I’ve professionally had some experiences with Nike that were not always positive. This was years ago at an agency that was VERY aggressive and trying to take the business away from another agency (which Nike wanted). So of the people I dealt with were awful.
However, when I was in my teens and early 20s I had some great experiences with some Nike reps (early ACG stuff)…. But they were Nike lifers back then, some of them were from the 1970s Nike and they still had that culture in them.
Remember the pontoon “energy takers….” from the “10 principles” memo….
I’m curious how Nike resolves this at a corporate level.
I’m cheering for them with fingers crossed.
Brilliant video that is full of constructive advices to help #Nike recalibrate their strategies for their running shoe business! I hope Nike will thank you one day.
I don’t need (or want) any thanks. I just want the Nike of old. When athletes came first…. Not celeb collabs.
Orchard Street runners mentioned 🙏🏽 glad they’re still on the scene and that Nike still helps out in the city. Currently they just brought back project moonshot, so let’s see what happens from there, it has the chance to change the landscape of running culture in NYC
I've not lived in NYC in 4 years and things changes in early 2020. That being said, seeing the instagram feeds of NYC running circles I once knew it does seem the heart beat is still there. OSR is still out there doing what they do as well...always good to see.
Fully agreed on your comment about their hunger marketing. There is several races in last winter/Spring marathon season I would like to try the AF3 but I can never get one from "normal" retail channel. The result is I went to Adidas, Saucony and ASICS. I think Nike 's marketing strategy is trying to push their customer to other rival brands.
I still run on the VF3 and I love it!
Again, the strategy is being promoted internally at Nike by non-runners...so frustrating.
Lovely video with some excellent points. I feel like this really hits home for me, as a few years ago, I was really only running in Nike running shoes like the pegasus, vomero, and streak, and I didn't look into many brands other than Nike. The Ultraboost wave in 2013 sparked my interest, but it faded quickly for me, and I still felt myself gravitating towards Nike shoes at my local running store. However, the more I think about it, over the past few years, I really have deviated from the Nike lineup in general.
With that said, I don't think it's so much that I'm disinterested in Nike's products, or the company as a whole, but more so that other brands have stepped in and taken a piece of my interests within running. While Nike used to be the brand that I spent the vast majority of my time looking into, and running in, other brands have really stepped up their game and have peaked my interest. Shoes within Nike's racing lineup still continue to amaze me with the innovation and incredible times they produce among professional athletes, but other brands have released shoes that really interest me as well.
More than anything, these other brands have character, and they offer this new found sense of excitement and discovery for me. While shoes from Asics didn't always interest me, I've thoroughly enjoyed them. The same could be said about Saucony's Endorphin Line that I really enjoy, or a lot of the recent New Balance shoes. My daily trainer at the moment is the Adidas SL2, a shoe that has been excellent for me over 300 miles so far. Even a brand like On, with the obscure looking midsole cutouts really ended up interesting me, even though I was very critical of the design originally. I've enjoyed their Cloudmonster daily trainer and Cloudboom echo race shoe a great deal.
So I don't think it's so much that I'm no longer interested in Nike, or that Nike isn't doing enough, I really just feel like other brands have stepped up their game to the point that Nike has a lot more competition when competing for space in the market for a consumer such as myself. While Nike used to dominate the running space for me as a consumer, they've now had to share the space with other brands that have peaked my interest. Overall, I think it's a good thing, as I still enjoy the Nike releases every year, but I have even more to look out for from other brands!
I also feel this. In much of the same progression you outlined.
That being said, due to this channel and all the non Nike I now run in, I find myself coming back to Nike more. Especially lately. Other brands offer some amazing shoes and feel on foot, Adidas especially so (the anti-Nike feel if you will), but still o crave that Nike feel on foot. More for training than racing as well.
I finding it all fascinating at the moment.
I definitely follow brands I never did before, some due to this channel, but some due to the strength of their product.
This wouldn’t have been the case 10 years ago, other than the odd Adidas or barefoot shoe.
Couldn't agree more on the hunger marketing point. Asics guilty too with limited Superblast availability. I shouldn't have to feel like I have won the lottery because I have managed to get hold of a shoe I want!
Great vid once again. Absolutely love your shoe reviews but this style of content always gets the cogs thinking about something other than pace/cadence etc. Top stuff.
Ya, it's disappointing to see Asics doing that. However, I learned some things about where they source their foams recently, especially FFTurbo & FFTurbo+ and now I am leaning towards production issues for them. There source for these foams can't produce them in the same volume as the, let's say, primary sources. If it's not this...then shame on Asics.
I’ve always admired Nike’s running roots, but agree the brand has lost its way in the last 5 years or so. Although I typically steer towards saucony, ASICS or new balance for daily or uptempo shoes (they seem to get discounted more often and are more widely available) I still swear by the Vaporfly 2s and the original alphaflys. Excellent shoes. As a relatively high mileage runner, I’m always on the lookout for good deals - and for that reason I’m never opposed to picking up a pair of pegs on a discount, even if they’re not necessarily up there with the best trainers in their price range. I’m glad to hear the 41 is a return to form though.
They really do need to reconnect to their running roots. The sooner the better.
From their running line, I think Nike dropped the ball when they discontinued the Pegasus Turbo. I was able to get my hands on the Turbo 2 and was really impressed then. Was looking forward to a third but... Nothing. Then they released a Turbo next nature (belatedly) but it was a subpar shoe and was a disconnect to those two "predecessors". They lost that hold on what turned out to be the super-trainer category.
We shall see how the Pegasus Plus goes… I should have my pair later this week.
Going to be interesting to see how the Pegasus Plus is received by the paying public as it seems to be similar to that Turbo many of us loved. That said the one review of it seen so far reminded me of a "typical" Peg 41 review - if only the shoe was not acutally what it actually is as these days I can only run in shoes with max cushioning.
Indeed, good sir!
🤙🏻
10K sub.. Congrats Chris! Happy to witness your raise.. keep rocking!
Thank you. I know you've been here since the start.... you have literally seen it from day one.
@@SagasuRunning It's truly an honor to witness your phenomenal growth. Your success is well-deserved, and I've learned so much from your videos. Your insights have even influenced my shoe-buying decisions, demonstrating the real impact you have on your audience.
This influence comes with added responsibility, of course. I admire how you've maintained your authenticity and hope you'll continue to stay true to your unbiased views. In a world full of influencer "noise," your genuine approach stands out and is deeply appreciated.
Your journey is inspiring, and I'm excited to see where it takes you next. Keep shining and sharing your unique perspective!
@Hana_shorts8436 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I saw Running Warehouse's recent video where they just did people watching. Only one runner out of dozens was in Nikes.
The one on the benches, right? I found that one interesting...but heavily edited for entertainment.
It was very scientific!
😂
On point as usual. Believe in the Run just released their full review of the Peg Plus. Similar complaint as other recent Nike trainers, not enough stack at forefoot. They got into Nike’s lack of evolution toward the end. Thought you may find it interesting and of course look forward to your review of the Plus.
I watched it. I’m craving less and less stack in the forefoot so music to my ears. The Streakfly comparison and flexibility notes I also appreciate. Honestly, their lack of excitement got me more excited for the shoe.
I was supposed to get my pair today but we just had a massive typhoon blow through Taiwan… things should be back to normal tomorrow though. Stay tuned.
I also like low stack shoes. The trend of max stack is not needed in every shoe. In saying that, is this Nike targeted for max profit or focus on what the customer wants or nostalgia.
@@m.ch4rmaland3r10 Good question. I don't really think it's either. What I've seen of the peg Plus, is it's not quite the magic of the Turbo 1/2 (though alot of that is nostalgia driven at this point) and its also not a shoe that is going to fly off the shelves... I cna only guess (and hope) that it's Nike engineering and design responding to asks form their athletes...
Facts and all brands need to stop asap is the hunger marketing. I want to be able to buy a shoe that’s a normally produced shoe at any moment. I understand if it’s a special design or collab but if it’s a normal blue,red, black colorway for any shoe I should be able to go buy it. I want to be able to train a few times in it then race it. Or if I want another color of a shoe that’s working well for me I should be able to just add it to my cart and purchase. And other brands do this too Iv still never been able to test out the new balance race shoe it’s always sold out. Saucony used to be great and have availability and tons of colors on the pro now it’s limited. Asics good luck getting the Edge or sky in your size.
Fully agree. If Nike wants to make the "proto" color ways exclusive and lottery based, cool. However, make it short and make sure the next color way is commonly available and easy to purchase.
Hi Chris! It's tough to see some people bashing Nike, especially regarding innovation. The Vaporfly is still a leader in its category. I've used the Next Percent 2 to qualify for the 2023 Boston and to requalify at it for 2024. I used to do this in New Balance RC 1400s, but that is another story!
Recently, I have purchased a pair each of Nike Zoom Dragonfly and Nike Zoom Victory track spikes. Both are absolutely the best performing spikes in which I have ever run.
Well said. Nike is still making very innovative and high quality product. Just not in a few of the fad categories that are hot right now in running.
great commentary. you gave me a little hope for my favorite brand. the zoomfly flyknit made me a nike fan for life. however, other than the tempo next %, i haven’t had a bunch of fun w/ nike daily trainers. the peg and invincible are cool, but it haven’t been able to touch what new balance and adidas have been doing in the daily trainer / max trainers space.
You may like the ZF6 then. it seems it has a little ot the Tempo DNA in it with more classic ZF. The Peg is still the gold standard for me for a daily trainer, but I admit there are likely better options out there for most. I've even covered many of them on this channel. My end-of-year "best of" content is going to be so interesting this year.
That hunger marketing really pissed me as a big Nike fan. When I bought the Pegasus 39, that got me really interested in running. That shoe was phenomenal for me. As I got more into running, I also explored Nike's other shoes especially the Vaporfly 3 and the Alphafly 2. But lo and behold, I waited 3-4 months to get an AF2 and 6 months to get a VF3. During that time period I got an Adios Pro 3 in the process and that shoe changed my taste in race day shoes. If I got AF2 earlier, I might have been a solid Nike runner. 😅
Ya… Nike has shot itself in the foot with that as there are many other options out there now. Especially from Adidas. You can’t go wrong with the AP3.
From what i can observe, your statements are so valid. Nike has certainly loss its positioning with its distribution model, innovation as you and many have pointed out. Sometimes, i do think it is easy to make these statements rather than action these in a big corporation.
The important part here will be what Nike does over the next 18 months. That will be the most telling as to how serious they are with change.
This is such a fantastic video Chris! Thanks for such insightful observations on Nike. I’m certainly going to seek out Geoff Hollister’s book too; having read Phil Knight’s it’ll be interesting to get an alternative viewpoint of those early years of Nike.
Geoff's book is hard to find. You can find it on archive.org for loan (with many other classic books on running....which I likely will do a video on at some point). Definitely worth seeking out. Thank you for the kind words on the content.
Young runner and Nike is defi my fav running shoe, alpha fly 3 slaps hard and looks better than anything else on the market
Happy to hear this. Keep on keeping on with them. 💪🏻
I love these videos so much thanks for making these
Thank you for watching! 🤙🏻
Nike needs really solid stability shoes like the Arahi and a shoe like the Mach 6, but with more stability.
They already have those…. The Structure exists and there will be some new structures next year. The Pegasus Plus is a far better Mach…. Better foam, better geometry, more like the Mach 5 was…. But better.
That is true. I really miss the Nike epic react and want the Structure Plus to be similar to those shoes and the Structure Premium like the Infinity react.
The Infinity is now a casual athleisure shoe for jogging. That being said I do expect the Structure Plus to be something like the older Infinity, more performance oriented with some mild stability. The Structure Premoum may be very Arahi-esque. We shall see…. There have been no leaks at all as of yet.
I have somewhat of a different take on this. in my opinion Nike running made a terrible mistake positioning the alpha fly and vapor fly when they launched back in 17. Yes they re invented the category with carbon plated shoes and zoomx foams. Unfortunately, in doing so they positioned their top tier shoes as shoes for elite runners only, and the zoom fly for recreational and non pro athletes. I myself bought the first zoom fly and stayed away from the $250 4% because of "appearances". Somwhat of the same as is happening with adidas $500 shoes right now. But with regards to Nike in making their top performance shoes image as only for pros, they missed the mass market and tried to get out a bunch of other shoes targeting the recreational runner.
Meanwhile adidas, Asics, Brooks, Puma and everyone else came out with their racing foams and carbon plated or rodded shoes without the stigma of being only for top runners and capitalized on nikes shift of the industry. I have run in Adidas Adios Pro 3, Pumas and asics top shoes, and still stirred clear of the Nikes unil their 3rd iteration (AF3 and VP3) simply because the shoes, in my mind, were still for much faster or better runners than me.
Now that ive tried them with over 150km on each, they are great shoes, love them, but still i see them as the Cinderella slippers used only on certain race pace or faster sessions, and for races. Meanwhile never thought of the Adidas AP3 or the takumi zen or the Puma deviate Nitro Elite 3 as special occasion shoes.
While this can be my opinion only, when i wear either Nikes VF or AF they are seen by others as a status symbol of good runners and good / fast runners who wear the somewhat look down on recreational runners wearing them. At least those are my observations.
So i would say Nike did a Great Marketing effort developing their running line, but did it too well, they made the shoes so iconic and equivalent to excellence they at the same time alienated the large market of recreational runners who see the shoes as an unatainable ferrari or worthy of only BQ racers. And sales went to their competitors shoes.
Only my opinion.
I would say alot of others had this opinion around 2017-2019 on Vaporflys...."I'm not fast enough...good enough...etc". Honestly, I've haven't heard anyone articulate that in a while. Nike's top tier race shoes have been commodified and I see everyone in them now. I have no issues with that, frankly.
I have bigger issues with shoes being marketed as "good for a 4 or 5 hour marathon".... why limit yourself? Running in (relatively) inexpensive (compared to say cycling) and I see no reason to make second tier shoes that ultimately limit you.
Everyone benefits from top tier super shoes (beyond non-responders and some edge cases) so enjoy them. VF3, AF3, AP3, Evo 1, MSEP/MSSP....are all the same tier and no one should have imposter syndrome running in any of them. They are great fun.
@@SagasuRunning Agree with you version 3 are seen more often, but in those first years they gave too much for other brands to take market share, which was my point. Nike in those first couple of years made the category to others and they capitalized. Like another commentor said, i now own only 1 pair of Nikes.
I used the zoom fly and had 4 or 5 pairs, and used Adidas boston 5 - 9, before that used brooks pure and hyperion. and when i made the change to carbon plated i didnt go to Nike, went to Adidas and Puma.
Anyways part of my point is that Nike instead started making more Pegasus, Vomero, invisible and other entry or casual shoes, while everyone else was focusing mainly in the top tier. Adidas used to make a huge deal of Pure Boost, then moved everything to lightingstrike pro, pure boost was for casual wear.
Another problem i see is the top tier shoes are difficult to get a hold of, i had to buy my Alpha Fly 3 on StockX, everywhere else was sold out. How many sales did nike loose and went to the competition because their products are difficult to buy?
As for their inner organization i really cant say, Nike still has the biggest names, and endorsments in sports, and has the largest maket share. but they have so many variants in each line and colors and want to have a pegasus pro, plus and normal and same on many different lines, i dont even want to think how many SKUs Nike has.
Like you, I spent alot of time in the original Zoom Fly and Addias Boston 6-9s…. I really miss the Bostons. I do agree with you, back then the super shoes were “exclusive” but definitely not the case any more.
Congratulations on the 10k subs milestone.
Thank you! 🤙🏻
I havent bought a pair of nike running shoes since VP2. There are better choices out there for the same money. However I still run with the PEG36 occasionally and it is still fine for what it is.
Given you still pull the Peg36 out time-to-time... if you ever want to update it the Peg41 will feel right at home for you.
This is a good analysis. Nike (and Tiger and New Balance) started the running category. I think the size of the running category at Nike in your chart threw you off because its all running not just performance and that includes a lot of low priced foot covering sold at marshalls. You are right, the way to judge who a running company is is to go into Super Runners, or Brooklyn running co. etc. Nike might not be able to get back into these local running shops who are burned by e-commerce. Two other good books are Just Do It written by Rob's wife after he died, and Pitch Invasion (adidas/Puma) by Barbara Smit (she had free reign while i was at adidas to write the true story). I remember Mark Parker landed in Orlando 20 years ago and saw all the shlubs going to Disney in Nike gear and changed the company from a behemoth into lots of smaller companies with true insights into their consumer (skate, running etc.), the precursor to Rabbit and Tracksmith, he knew people want their brand to say "i am an insider in my sport". I think they will come out okay in 18 months from this, but they may never be able to capture that heritage- i think that ship has sailed.
Thank you for the Book recommendations. I'm especially interested in the Adidas/Puma story, I only know it from a surface level.
Mark Parker definitely had the right idea...if only they had stuck with it. Donahoe will be remembered like Scully was for Apple. An outsider, who didn't know the space, brought it to "make sales".
@@SagasuRunning yeah, hard to escape the glow of huge sales. the Smit book is really good, it goes all the way back to the brothers, then the children- when Horst used to bring Olympic federations to a chateau and give them a suitcase full of cash. I'll hit you in your IG DMs
As a new runner (started during the pandemic) and not looking to buy carbon plated shoes, i never had anyone recommending Nike shoes to me. At my local store its all about Asics, NB and Saucony.
In my mind Nike is going the way of the north face. Sure they still have products that are top of the line but more and more they are pivoting towards fashion instead of recreational atheletes.
And like North Face they, Nike has the same challenge to pivot back to performance categories for many. You nailed a very apt comparison here. Both companies have similar stories and got a little too wrapped up in the fashion/collab space and lost sight of what made them great.
Some interesting business school case studies in a few years for sure.
I would argue that the Tempo was the first modern max super trainer (40+ mm, super foam, plate) and the Invincible was interesting as high stack full Peba shoe, but since then? Alpha and Vaporfly iterating, bricks like the Zoom Fly, same old for Peg and Vomero, but tons of rubish budget shoes in the outlets. A Tempo in 2020 is the last Nike that I paid sticker price for, and I got 3 Vaporflys alone since, but had they gotten something like a great Tempo 2 I would have paid to get it asap, just like I did for Superblast 1 and 2.
For the retail I do get why they go direct, selling for end user price is so profitable compared to distributor that it's worth taking a hit on total numbers, and Nike is big enough to still attract customers, especially as the have a huge brick and mortar network of flagship stores and outlets.
I've made that argument on the Tempo Next %, see the "super trainers" video I linked in the description.
Retail is hard, especially right now. As I said in this video, I MUCH before the direct model, not just for Nike but for any brand (and not just in running, I will rarely buy anything from 3rd parties unless I have too for anything).... so Nike has some work ahead of it to rebuild the connections it had for YEARS.
Nike needs to rethink its positioning with respect to fair contracts with female athletes. And also coaching practices around body composition and pushing (or crossing the line) on PEDs. There needs to be some soul searching and very substantive changes.
In addition to that they seem to have stiff-armed the independent running shops in favor of direct to consumer to an extent that they aren’t being stocked anymore. That also seems to be a channel sales problem.
Agree...but honestly these are both 2018/19 stories. All the drama around Nike's athlete contracts back them definitely was not good...but it put a spotlight on the entire industry and how athletes are treated, mostly female but also male. No brand in running is innocent here. However, there is more transparency out there about i all since. Is it enough, unlikely...but it is an industry problem...not a Nike only problem.
As for the retail partnerships...they have acknowledged this mistake. It will be interesting to see what they can rebuild.
I believe that Nike is the largest sponsor of track and field in the US and it’s the Team USA Olympic apparel sponsor. That’s high profile.
I don’t see that Nike did very much in the wake of revelations of the poor treatment of Kara Goucher, Alyson Felix, Mary Cain, Lauren Fleshman… these are off the top of my head.
On the other hand they stood behind Alberto Salazar for a long time.
There is a big disconnect between their Just Do It marketing and upbeat cool ad campaigns and their revealed behavior in the sport of Track and Field, which is very dark -- do anything to win including cheat if you can get away with it and discard anyone that isn't winning right now.
Again… 2018/19…. So much has already been said about this all as well as changed. Dark, indeed, but no brand is completely innocent here, in athletics or otherwise. Sponsor contracts and predatory unless you are the top of the top and can call the shots (which is rare).
The Salazar thing was unfortunate…. However it’s not something I’m going to forever hold against the company. Every brand name has skeletons in their closet…. It’s the reality…. In athletics or not.
I was surprised how much they stood behind Salazar and for how long…. Because Nike has thrown others under the bus immediately in the past. But he did go way back for the brand…. Almost to the Pre days.
Regardless times change. Organizations change. Outlooks change.
11:10, 22:20 Totally agree. Adidas, On, Hoka, and even Brooks are really tapping into this and excelling at it. They also have good relationships with retail partners and smaller stores in the US. You will find these brands latest shoes and carbon race day shoes at independent retailers where you won't find a vaporfly or alpha fly. You may have a pegasus or nike spike on the wall but thats about it. They need to retool things in that space. Absolutely ridiculous you can't find a VF or AF locally or online
From an innovation standpoint aside from establishing the super trainer trend and their race shoes Nike has failed terribly with innovating regular performance like the JoyRide but hopefully they get it right with their next cycle.
Ya, those retail ties are going to be tricky for Nike to rebuild after the past 2-3 years of neglect.
JoyRide...well that was never a performance things, more of a casual jogger thing...but yes, they spent too much time and effort on those type of athleisure techs that really didn't work out.
This whole making shoes “exclusive” such as superblasts or alphafly can be a pro and con for sales. It can build hype to an extent but you do it all the time and consumers will get fed up and not bother. When it comes to real runners they usually want to know they can get the shoe they need when they need it and for fair price because you tend through shoes. ASICS is copying some of Nikes marketing strategies and it will backfire if they do the exclusive hype approach too much.
Nike is 100% due to hunger marketing as it’s their playbook for years, even at the detriment of actual runners.
Asics however, I’m not sure if it’s hunger marketing or supply chain issues. I recently learned where Asics sources its foams, primarily its new PEBA FFturbo+…. Knowing this I’m aware that getting enough of the material is likely an issue. The Superblasts sell 2 to 1, maybe more, over the Metaspeeds… so getting enough foam maybe be their issue.
Nike can very easy turn it around. Just feed their tier 1 tech to their everyday and long runs shoes. What's holding them back appears to be intentionally withholding this tech and trying to separate racing to their every day runners both from a shoe and user stand point. Resting on laurels while the rest of the industry has really caught up. These days the difference between top tiers from a dozen brands is minimal and every runners from other brands have superceeded.
How relevant has the pegasus line really been? Probably still sells well despite being a subpar product
They already do this and have done this for years. ZoomX, CF plates, Airpods, flyknit...all have been available in non racers for years.
I'd argue the Pegasus is extremely relevant, possible the one of the most relevant shoe yearly. Not all of us want to be running in max stack, plates, rockered everything all of the time. The Peg is that iterative type of innovation that gets more and more refined. Solid, dependable and it works....not some trendy fad that comes and goes in a season or two.
@@SagasuRunning so what is the reason for them not having exciting shoes in the daily, tempo and long run bracket?
As far as daily trainers go, I have seem recommendations for novablast, adizero sl2, and many from others. Pegasus not on the radar of runners these days.
But if you pop into a store with no research then those are the people who are buying pegasus.
I know we are speaking in generalities and about the US market (mostly) but if you expand your lens to the rest of the world. I would say Nike makes “exciting” shoes.
Here in Asia, in Taiwan…. If I see a runner in Nike, more often than not it will be Pegs or Vaporflys. In Japan I’d say the vast majority of Nike runners, which is the biggest proportion of runners in Japan, are in Pegs for training. Japanese run influencers/UA-camrs are VERY pro Pegasus. Even among Japanese Nike pros almost all of them train in Pegs and occasionally in Vomeros. Zoom Fly 5s are also oddly popular here in Asia and I still see plants of Streakflys, even here in Taiwan.
I would argue Nike does make “exciting” shoes for runners. But in the US the running media and influencers (more the ones outside of Shoetubers, more the fitness/athleisure ones) are very pro Hoka and On (especially now with Zendaya signing with On) which speaks more to where those companies spend their marketing budgets.
I would also say there are a handful of us on Shoetube who are also pro Pegasus. The Run Testers, Ben Parkes, Tim Grose and myself have all published positive Peg41 reviews. Speaking for myself, I do recognize there are better options for specific types of running over the Peg41…. But the Peg41 is the shoe I’ve been reaching for because the feel is so spot on toe at I want out of a running shoe.
I do think Nike’s new tier structure will allow them to keep their standard models trend/fad free, for those of us who want transitional or solid trainers free of gimmicks…. While offering more “modern” and “innovative” tiers in the same silhouette. From what I’ve seen on the horizon for Nike there will be a few trainers that should do well.
As for Pegasus sales. I bet they do well for Nike. Maybe not as large of a percentage that say the Brooks Ghost does…. But overall well. Same for the Invincible. In the pockets of running I used to be around in NYC… almost all Nike runners are training in Invincibles and racing in Alphaflys.
They really do need to get into the super trainer market, the market is started to get flooded with them, because people love them, yet Nike still has none, which is weird, since they're often the leaders when it comes to innovation.
The Zoom Fly 6 should slot in there well. However, the winds are changing on the whole super trainer thing. In the next two years they will be far less important than they are right now. Trends and fads in running come and go. Luckily the super trainer thing is burning hot and fast.
Excellent video!
Thank you for watching. 🤙🏻
Undoubtedly they would have sold 10% more alphafly 3s if they were just available. At least. Who would turn that down.
Someone ran the numbers in Beaverton and found hinge marketing gives a better return… 🤷🏼♂️
So many runners I know race in AP or VP, and wear none of their other shoes. They’re putting effort into shoes they have to because experienced and elite runners don’t care about the name and will know if the shoe doesn’t stack up. The rest of their lineup is purely banking on brand loyalty IMO.
I would agree to a point. I do think they have prioritized their races shoe for results (and their elites). I also think they are listening to what their pros and elites want to train in as well....which is different than what the general public wants. They need to find a better way of balancing this though.
@23:06 I hate dumb games like those shoe lotteries, too. However, I acknowledge that there are many who love it, and some who make a luxurious living off it.
Sneaker resellers are a plague on the entire space. The reseller market, on it's own is fine...but the automated ways many go about it are not. When you get into performance product it's even worst. It is a tough problem to solve but Nike seems to only want to pander to it until very recently...
@@SagasuRunning Completely agreed. As you rightfully argue, this kind of marketing is not in the interest of the running community.
@@Anza_34832 ...or any performance sport.
I’m going to piggyback on some other comments. We all know when Nike releases their proto colorways, they’re going to fly off the shelves like people trying to get those Black Friday sales at Walmart. Once that calms down, the availability should be more widespread. Personally, I don’t even check inventory on the AF3. It’s not worth it to me.
Same with the Superblast. That’s a shoe that interests me way more than a true race shoe anyway. I don’t think ASICS was prepared for the popularity for the V1, so I get it. As far as the V2, they knew it would be a big seller right off the bat. I did preorder my pair within a couple hours of availability, and my order was pushed back a week from the original expected shipping date. I’ve read that some people still haven’t received their preorders.
When these companies announce a release date or offer preorders for a product, have it ready to go. Yes, they’re going to still sell their shoes, but at the same time they’re turning people off from that model or even that brand when they can’t get it.
See...I was thinking about this. I have no issue with the "proto" colorway (or special colorways) being exclusive and/or lottery based, it's fine. Just make sure one can buy the shoe in a "standard" colorway from the start. Then they can play their forced exclusivity games however they want.
It is frustrating to see Asics's going the same route with the Superblast...however, I'm beginning to think it's more an inventory thing for them than actual "hunger marketing". I leaned some things recently about their supply chain and whee they source their foams from, especially FFTurbo+, which makes me think they are struggling to produce enough of the material to make the shoes. Superblasts seem in much higher volumes than the Metaspeeds.
I also think there is some logistics and inventory mismanagement on Asics's part. For example there are Superblast 2s on nearly ever Asics store shelf here in Taiwan at the moment. Even in stores I have never seen a Superblast at prior. We also have Metaspeeds, both the Edge & Sky, available in the bigger stories here. However, thats not the case in many countries. For example, the UK only recently got the Metaspeed Edge, months after the Sky...it is all very odd.
Getting Nike to drop its Artificial Scarcity/Hunger Marketing tactics is going to be a tall ask. God they love it oh so much.
They really do...it's so frustrating.
/Superblast has entered the chat
@@djdustn Is the superblast 2 also very rare?
It is hard to find… but I think that is more due to production problems with the foam for Asics….
@@SagasuRunning Here in Europe, many of their models are hard to find, mostly because they simply don't sell a lot of their products outside of Asia...
It's not the end of Nike, it's just been a very rough year for consumer discretionary. Certainly not the place to invest in at the moment. But these things are cyclical, it will come back.
Fully agree.
I think your point about bureaucracy is wrong. The reorganisation that redefined and consolidated around "product categories" might have simplified the org chart and removed bureaucracy, but it killed the sport specific experience, passion, and drive that lead to innovation. It's no mystery why nike has fallen off so much when they are instead developing product as "mens-performance", or "mens-lifestyle" rather than running, football, basketball.
Further proof is that the CEO in his infinite wisdom was forced to do another 180 so product development is again focused back on "fields of play."
I agree with your point but this IS bureaucracy. Even though the headcount was reduced managers where instilled to oversee all of these verticals, with no real understanding of what was in the actual vertical at a category level. That is CLASSIC bureaucracy.
nike is even losing out in soccer/football boots fr...when adidas launch the new predator and f50 this year...they become hot topics among the bootheads! i just hope that doesn't end like nokia...from adidas running fan.
Nokia's issues were far more fatal. Nike is nowhere near that far gone. I don't follow soccer (football) reallya t all but have been watching alot of global soccer (football) business videos lately. The Nike vs Adidas battle is even more aggressive there than running...at the athlete and club level...and now federation. The German federation thing, moving to Nike, was massive. As an outsider, it's interesting to watch. Especially when I have an interest in both brands in other areas.
The main issue I see, from an average runner's perspective is that I always find better shoes than Nike's across all segments. Daily trainer? Peg is way below Novablast or Ride or Clifton 9. Speed trainer? I call the Zoom Fly 5 "Nike Coffin". Saucony Speed or Mack are a lot better. Stability shoes? Not existent - Structure is c**p. Long run..nothing close to superblast. As far as I see in the reviews, I am not alone in this choice. I do believe they need to be more consumer oriented towards the average consumer as we do more miles and use more "normal shoes" than af and vf. Or they will perish as a brand
Nike has parity with all the shoes a runner would need except really the “super trainer “, which I’m personally not a fan of (I’d rather do fast running in a real super shoe, not a compromise…. And daily running is best done in something lower and flexible like a Pegasus)…. But I agree the Zoom Fly 5 is awful…. Absolutely awful.
First! Is the Vaporfly 3 still your pick for a race day?
Depends…. I’ll have a video about it in August…stay tuned.
@@SagasuRunning looking forward to it.
metaspeed paris all the way mate
Not a Nike buyer anymore
We all have our preferences for sure.
Hi sir can you review 361 degrees flame 3?
361 did reach out to me…. But they are hard to get here in Taiwan. So unlikely.
This is good for Nike, and even better for us. Their aura and mythology is quickly evaporating. They are going to come out with some incredibly unique and forward thinking shoe technology. They have the money and experts...if they didn't they'll buy them. They just got lazy.
Meanwhile, I'll be over here using every other brand until then.
Don't be a brand slave and you'll never go home starving.
Actually, I agree with you. Though I think we are already seeing some of the "great" shoes coming out in 2024 from Nike and hopefully they are signs of more to come.
Is anyone talking about the cheetah color way monstrosity they recently made?
They have grown on me. Bought a pair of the the Peg41s I liked them so much.
@@SagasuRunning nahh I’m talking about the ugly orange colorway thing they put on the dragonfly victory and alphafly
@@aSkibidRunner The electric pack… it’s all the same. The track spikes are a bit over the top.
No worries, the Pegasus Plus will save that company. 😅
We shall see...I'll have my initial thoughts out next week.
Ahhh DTC (direct to consumer)…what American Airlines did in 2023 and failed miserably at. Even firing their CCO for it, and now rolling back on it and trying to mend all the damaged channel relationships. With no acceptance from the CEOs of the massive blunder, even if it tanked the stock and has cost them millions in consecutive quarters.
Maybe they copied Nike’s idea.
Nah, John Donahoe came from eBay...and had zero understanding (or care) of Nike's DNA. DTC made sense from his background, but he was the wrong choice. Oddly similar to the John Scully era of Apple...
Sagasu, tell me your thoughts. Nike is missing out on a massive marketing technique and product innovation that they already pay for. Why not give their HUGE athlete names a named product “designed by them” They have Jakob ingebrigsten who is definitely the most talked about name in track and field. He trains very uniquely and wins races. Perfect for a Jakob shoe. Let him get with Nike designers and design his dream trainer and racer. All the marketing could be about how his trainer is perfect for his double threshold training which everyone is trying right now. I really think a “Ingy Pegasus” or whatever they want to call it would sell like crazy. They have so many big name athletes they could use too
Personally I'd NEVER buy "athlete edition" models. I have zero interest in that. Also, Nike has never done that with running shoes and I feel like that is now a golden rule for the brand.
However, the Alphafly 2 is as close as (I think) we will ever see a Nike running shoe athlete model. That was Eliud Kipchoge's shoe, really designed for him and him alone, "Air Kipchoge" if you will. Nike worked with EK on the AF2 much like you mentioned as well. If they never named that one for EK...it will never happen.
I could see athlete color ways, much like the EK editions last year...but not much more.
If this "golden rule" ever changed for Nike Running it would be a huge internal shift and would come with a whole bunch other consequences that would send the line in directions that would not be good.
@@SagasuRunning I value your insight, why do you think it would be such a failure? We’ve seen how well it has worked for Nike in basketball, and running is an even more footwear dependent sport. Seems like it would be a winning formula to me. Wouldn’t necessarily have to name the shoes after athletes. If they got Jakob to say “ I worked in depth with the Nike team to design this shoe to perfectly suit my training style” and then explained specific features he liked I think that shoe would break sales records. Just my opinion though
And I agree the Kipchoge marketing with Alphafly 2 is essentially what I am describing and the alphafly is a great success. I think I also recall Kipchoge releasing an add for Original Pegasus turbo stating he helped design the perfect training shoe, and we all know how successful that was.
One more example, and a shoe you should seriously consider reviewing. Adidas Terrex Agravic Speed was heavily influenced by Tom Evan’s training preferences. I just picked it up and it is brilliant, probably going to be my shoe of the year
It’s just not how Nike handles running. Jordan created the archetype for basketball and everyone who came after than wanted to follow so Nike (and other brands) had no choice. I don’t think anyone (brand) wants to create that paradigm in running.
As far as Nike elites working on the product…. They all do, some more than others, but they all have massive input. This is why Nike racing shoes often feel a little too tuned to an elite runner. They all already have massive input and marketing already shows that story.
It’s bigger than that. The AF2 was literally designed to EK’s tastes and stride. It’s why it only really worked for him and you rarely saw any other top Nike athlete in them. If Nike never called that the “Air Kipchoge”, at the peak of EK hype, it’s never happening. Runners, no matter how big they are in running, are minor as household names. Even a mid tier basketball pro is a bigger name than a top elite runner. Marketing needs to work and to market a name you need name recognition.
The EK color ways were just another color way and I bet the didn’t do that well compared to all the others across those shoes.
I remember EK talking about the Tempo Next % and promoting it as the ultimate training shoe in videos. I never remember EK talking about the Turbo…. Not do I ever remember seeing him in a pair…. Ever.
I’m well aware of Tom Evans involvement with the new Terrax line. Sadly, Addias doesn’t sell any of their trial shoes here in Taiwan…. So I simply can’t get a pair. I will be in The States in Sept and may look for a pair though…. I’m curious about them.
Nike running shoes are some of the best shoes. Alphafly is my best with the Sky Paris second. Get back to making shoes available, and showcasing in ads. They definitely have stop making great commercials.
Just do it
Their latest “Winning isn’t for everyone” spot is a Nike advert of old. It was good to see.
Wait. So you’re saying the brand that made the most advanced super shoe for the fast marathon runner isn’t innovating? The same brand that had to fight to keep that same shoe from being banned in the Olympics? The same one that’s iterated since the first version. And had every other running brand create their own version of? All within the last 2 years?
🤔 interesting
I'm not saying that...but that seems to be the general perspective on Nike out there. 🤷🏼♂️
Nike also lead mass adoption of minimal running with their free series in differing drops.
...and they basically dropped the "free" series years ago (it is still around but not what it was). Interestingly, I do think you'll see it making a come back in the coming years.
Nokia in the making?
Nah...Nokia's issue was much more like Blackberry. Nike is nowhere near that far gone.
Since it’s CEO changed, they completely focus on digital services and left behind innovation. They remaster old models for sneaker heads and left their runners behind. I used to buy only Nike, and this year I bought Saucony and Asics, even recommended my family to buy these shoes.
Their inventory sucks, their marketing now a days suck, their value for me ( price/ quality) is not there for me compared to other brands. They are just… a boring proposal.
Agree here....John Donahoe was a massive misstep for Nike. Oddly, very similar to Apple's John Sculley era. Similar stories, bringing in CEOs from different backgrounds to the respective companies to focus on "selling more". Both CEOs never understood the DNA of the company nor ever cared and it showed with their strategies.
So many runners agree that Nike makes the top racing shoes but all their other shoes are just meh. Also their trail shoes. They don't need to be super innovative, but if you just look at the weight and the build quality, it's just mediocre. The Peg's are great for your every day runner. The ones that go out for 1-2 hours a week and never look beyond the Peg. And Nike sells a lot of them. Mainly through brand loyalty and marketing. But more serious runners just see so many shoes that are so much better. I think they don't see the need to improve on those shoes because they sell a lot anyway.
Nike trail has come quite a long way. The Wildhorse, Zegama 2 and Ultrafly 2 are a compelling trail rotation on par with just about anything else out there. Nike Teial can show the way for the rest of the brand right now.
I also agree that Nike sells a lot of Pegs. It’s an anyone shoe. I bet for every Novablast sold Nike sells 3-5 Pegs, granted most of those are bought by people jogging a few hours a week… but they is the beauty of the Peg… it’s a do anything for any runner type of shoe.
In some cases I think there are better options than Nike trainers, especially if a runner is on current trend… but at the same time Nike has a full rotation line that covers all the bases very well.
In my mind it’s adding some product that appeals to current trends and fads in running…. But marketing and retail relationships are much more important for them to do better with.
I started running in 1977, and the next thirty+ years I was a total Nike fanatic. But the last 15 or so years, Nike has dropped the ball. Apart from the Vaporfly and Alphafly, their running line is DOA to me.
Late 70s Nike was something special. 80s Nike was a powerhouse. I miss both. I hope they recapture some of that old magic moving forward.
Wait, but how can we say "apart from the Vaporfly and Alphafly"? We can't disregard what these models did to running shoes, running as a sport, and even shoetubbing at large.
Agree… Nike has its ups and downs… but we wouldn’t be where we are in running right now without them.
They need to shift more attention back to their running base. It was a shame they didn't have any great product lines or clothing celebrating the 50th anniversary or Pre's anniversary. It's also upsetting that other countries get first access to new shoes from a US based company. I also don't see the benefits of being a nike member when the only thing they give you is a 10% discount on your birthday👎
Agree they need to shift attention back to their running heritage (thus this video). In some ways I’m glad they aren’t milking “Pre” anymore…. But at the same time given his importance to the early days of Nike (as an employee AND runner) and it being 50years…. Ya… missed opportunity that.
I’ve been a Nike member since 2002…. I like the history I can see but wish they did more with the account. Like what they used to do in the Nike+ days.
@@SagasuRunning I would hope they could possible milk today's runners considering the talent that is out there in track and field and today's distance women runners are popular impart to their mastery of social media in which they share their trials in tribulations of training which makes them relatable to everyday runners.
Nike is really leveraging their track athletes as of late. Both male and female. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that. I also really enjoyed their recent “Winning isn’t for everyone” spot. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that Nike.
I’m a pretty new runner (8 months) but other than the Pegasus, Vaporfly & Alphafly, I couldn’t name you a Nike running shoe. The Pegasus line seems okay but a bit overpriced and the other two are way too expensive, even when compared to most other race shoes. I went with Puma, New Balance and ASICS. I think they all make much better shoes for less money, especially PUMA - DN2 & DNE3 are amazing. I’d turn to Mizuno, Saucony and Adidas for future shoes before Nike
I also do not think Nike makes very good quality running clothes. The few t shirts of theirs I’ve tried all irritated my skin. I think Under Armour & New Balance again make much better running clothes than Nike
Until Nike seriously improve the quality of the majority of their products, and preferably make them better value for money, I’ll continue to avoid them
Nike's outerwear is tricky. Most of it is awful and finding the good pieces is hard and near impossible in stores. However their Aeroswift line is some of the best outerwear you can buy in running. Finding it is the hard part...and that is the story of Nike at the moment. Sifting through all the crap they make to find the quality is hard and for a new consumer of the brand it's often not worth the effort, especially when other brands make it (a bit) easier.
Ah but those 3 are arguably the 3 best known shoes in recent years from any brand new. I certainly would need to think very hard to name say 3 Mizuno shoes and like to think of myself as a bit of a shoe geek. Also I guess that is Nike's problem if you are seemingly dismissing their products without actually trying them. Also I think there is an element that most shoes are now pretty good these days and it is really finding the ones that fit you best with the type of ride you like.
No offense, but your account is a diagnosis and a textbook example of what brand cult fallacy has become. Maybe you should read "Kicksology" for a start.
Happy runs!
@@SagasuRunning I’d never heard of the Aeroswift line until reading your comment, which I think says a lot about Nike’s marketing
@@TimGrose admittedly my very first pair of proper running shoes were the wave rider 27, and I’ve really enjoyed them, which helped me form a good perception of the brand. I’m also aware of the “Ultima” line and the new(ish) Neo Vista. I know of the rebellion line too. I’d struggle to tell you any more of their shoes without googling
I do agree with you though, with my limited experience of trying running shoes I haven’t found any shoes yet that I’ve disliked, other than the Kiprun KD900x. I also think the Novablast 4 is a bit overrated
If Nike didn’t promote the Alphafly’s 24/7 I’d have considered trying their mid range shoes, but by promoting the Alphafly’s so much it gives me the impression they don’t really care about any of their lesser shoes
Nike does not make good shoes for any running except the race. Very few of a runners' miles are spent actually racing. There are just too many flaws in all their other categories of shoe. All of their major competitors have better foams in their daily trainers and tempo shoes. Nike doesn't even have a max cushion/recovery shoe - never mind - the Invincible. But, Nike shoes are generally firmer, heavier, and have a less comfortable upper than Asics, Saucony, New Balance, and Hoka. Getting a 30-40% market share of race day is awesome for them. But, far more shoes overall are consumed and more money is spent on the daily miles between races. Also you really got to credit Adidas and their boost as being the first to introduce a "super foam".
Uh, Invincibles?
Adidas's Boost foam wasn't quite a super foam, but ti definitely was a proto-super foam. It shifted much emphasis onto foams, which wasn't there prior. I've discussed this in other videos as well.
As for personal taste. I would say Nike's product line has been oddly lean in performance training for the past 2 years. But their product line restructuring is going to give them parity in each category against other brands starting this fall.
And Vomeros....
@@RowOfMushyTiT Yeah. The Invincible is a max cushion shoe. I obviously missed that.
Basketball is not Soccer (football) , outside of North America it is a minor sport . So it does not surprise me that running is still the largest chunk. rationalize , increase quality(and price if needs be ) and become less preachy (US west coast values do not export well to a lot of markets) . You pretty much nailed it in your video so I decided to spit ball some other idea's. I have dropped Asics from my purchasing because they have gone direct to consumer in the UK outside of their flashy Large city stores.
Basketball in Asia is possibly the biggest sport and Nike and Jordan are the kings of it. Also Soccer (football) is massive worldwide and I figure sit would be larger.
I’m happy running is still as large as it is for them though. It means it will get priority moving forward.
@@SagasuRunning Your reply shows my naivety on Basketball (still stuck in the early 80's when I left the states ) . Thanks (slightly embarrassed) . When I finish work I will read up on it 🙂
Ha. No worries. I was shocked too when I first started coming to Asia. Basketball is bigger here than The States. Especially in Taiwan and China. “Basketball style” is also huge here…. And Jordan is bigger than Nike overall. It was crazy to me.
@@SagasuRunning And Asians don’t do well in basketball as a sport. Popularity of basketball clothes has a lot to do with rap music culture and dancing scene.
Have always thought with Basketball shoes that, in the UK at least, next to nobody is buying them to actually play Basketball in whereas with running shoes got to think must be a higher relative use for actual running - well bar the lifestyle retro remakes. Nike UK has loads of basketball models on offer but most of them look more geared up for casual. Is that the case in the places mentioned where the sport itself is actually popular or is it "really" just popular to watch rather than do it yourself?
Too much focus on "the other thing". Maybe market and make shoes for real runners and I say this as someone having purchased 4 Vaporflys, 5 Tempos and 10 Alphaflys.
Agree... at the end of the day people just get on with it and run. Many many do that in Nike's, completely unaware of any drama.