One good portrayal of Bugsy is in Boardwalk Empire, where he's portrayed as a creepy psychopathic weirdo. Boardwalk wasn't the best show in terms of accuracy, but they definitely got Bugsy right. He was a creep, not a movie star.
No, I never liked "Bugsy" either. Back when it was released, I hated the idea of glamorizing a criminal. Good job. Your work, by the way, is one of the inspirations for my videos.
Seems to be a thing for film makers. In the UK we had a pair of identical twin gangsters called the Kray twins. Legend with Tom Hardy is the most recent big movie about them. The still have a glamourous image despite the fact they were nothing more than vicious thugs. And Ronnie was quite literally a mental case. And yet they are lionised by a great many people.
I wonder if The Godfather Part II isn’t at least partly responsible for propagating the Bugsy Siegel myth. If you remember Hyman Roth has that monologue praising Moe Greene as the guy who “invented” Las Vegas. “And there isn’t even a plaque, or a statue or a signpost of him in that town.” Since Roth and Moe Greene are obvious stand-ins for Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Siegel, many people who have seen GF II may interpret his monologue as actual history.
From one historian to another, your vids are brilliant, well written, and full of solid evidence, serious yet still often humorous. Thank you for all your hard work, research, and public scope!
I hate historical inaccuracies. Everybody knows Moe Greene was the man who built Las Vegas, from a desert stopover for GIs, and there isn't even a plaque, or signpost, or statue of him in that town.
Someone put a bullet through his eye. Nobody knew who did it or who gave the order. Nobody asked. They all knew Moe, he was headstrong, he was loud and said stupid things. Hey, it was the business they chose. And that's that.
There are videos on his channel where he mentions Mark Hall-Patton is his father. I know he mentioned this in the video on the 1970 Patton movie and the video explaining his own origins in the Southwest. You can check them out if you haven't done so already... ...unless this is a joke and you knew that in which case, I'll take one from the bowl of L's and hop on the last train to Clarksville.
David Taylor thank you for the added context, it was mostly a joke though it was also a discovery. As I haven’t been watching for the longest. Though from context clue in the videos I’ve seen I joked about mark being his dad. So when he put that part in it hit me and was like totally gotta make the joke. Hope that clears that up part joke part serious . :)
@@diggs5142 Probably stuff like: How to hide a body, autograph signings (Likely on mugshot photos), previews on the latest weapons, and live performances from the Rat Pack.
I loved the movie "Bugsy" when it came out in 1991 and, in spite of what I have since learned about about him and the history of organized crime, it is still one of my favorite movies. Rather than being a factual history lesson about organized crime in 1940s Los Angeles, it's a sort of reimagining of "The Great Gatsby" by way of "Goodfellas" and it pulls it off with terrific style and a great cast.
As to suing, that's why these movies always contain "All characters and events depicted in this film are entirely fictitious. Any similarity to actual events or persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental" I've not actually seen this movie though I assume it's in there. And thanks to this video I'm not going to waste an evening finding out.
I feel like your dad is far more entertaining being able to freestyle history than he ever is on pawnstars. He seems so genuine and enthusiastic about his subject matter that I would probably go broke buying him beers (or drink of choice) and listen to him tell me history.
Hilariously, we were just sitting at the dinner table talking about the film and I was like, "hold on! I should get some footage of you ranting." That's literally all the prompting it took. I ran upstairs grabbed my camera and took it down. I'd only been back home for a day. He's been doing TV interviews since before I was born, so he's good at this kind of thing
@@CynicalHistorian Hahaha amazing how that works out! Also thanks for replying that's never happened to me before so it's pretty cool! I loved both your Patton review and the Filibusters (I'm trying to find good books on the subject) . Please keep up the great work!!!!
@@andrewshepherd1633 I can always recommend books on filibusters. Depends on what you're looking for. Like do you wanna know more about William Walker, or about more obscure stuff like the Crabb Expedition? I've actually done a lot on filibusters (academically) since I made that video
@@CynicalHistorian Please do- I'm interested in the subject as a whole so any and everything really. Though I have to admit William Walker sounded like an absolutely insane forerunner of Bob Denard so I definitely wouldn't mind learning more about him.
@@andrewshepherd1633 Here's a bibliography for you: Nice primaries: www.latinamericanstudies.org/filibusters.htm Alessio, Dominic. “Filibustering from Africa to the Americas: Nonstate Actors and Empire.” Small Wars & Insurgencies 27, No. 6 (October, 2016): 1043-1066. Bradley, Ed. “Fighting for Texas: Filibuster James Long, the Adams-Onis Treaty, and the Monroe Administration.” The Southwestern Historical Quarterly 102, No. 3 (January, 1999): 322-342. Bradley, Ed. We Never Retreat: Filibustering Expeditions into Spanish Texas, 1812-1822. College Station: Texas A&M University Press, 2015. amzn.to/2YOWkny Bridges, C.A. “The Knights of the Golden Circle: A Filibustering fantasy.” The Southwestern Historical Quarterly 44, No. 3 (January 1941): 287-302. Chaffin, Tom. “‘Sons of Washington’: Narciso Lopez, filibustering, and U.S. Nationalism, 1848-1851.” Journal of the Early Republic 15, No. 1 (Spring, 1995): 76-108. Chaffin, Tom. Fatal glory : Narciso López and the first clandestine U.S. War against Cuba. Charlottesville : University Press of Virginia, 1996. Cova, Antonio Rafael de la. “Fernandina Filibuster Fiasco: Birth of the 1895 Cuban War of Independence.” The Florida Historical Quarterly 82, No. 1 (Summer, 2003): 16-42. Cova, Antonio Rafael de la. “Filibusters and Freemasons: The Sworn Obligation.” Journal of the Early Republic 17, No. 1 (Spring, 1997): 95-120. Crenshaw, Ollinger. “The Knights of the Golden Circle: The Career of George Bickley.” The American Historical Review 47, No. 1 (Oct. 1941): 23-50. Denton, Andrew. “Filibusterism and Catholicity: Narciso López, William Walker, and the Antebellum Struggle for America's Souls.” U.S. Catholic Historian 33, No. 4 (Fall, 2015): 1-26. Gobat, Michel. Empire by Invitation: William Walker and Manifest Destiny in Central America. Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 2018. Gobat, Michel. Confronting the American Dream: Nicaragua under U.S. Imperial Rule. Durham, N.Carol.: Duke University Press, 2005. Greenberg, Amy S. “A Gray-Eyed Man: Character, Appearance, and Filibustering.” Journal of the Early Republic 20, No. 4 (Winter, 2000): 673-699. Keehn, David C. Knights of the Golden Circle: Secret Empire, Southern Secession, Civil War. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, 2013. May, Robert E. “Reconsidering Antebellum U.S. Women's History: Gender, Filibustering, and America's Quest for Empire.” American Quarterly 57, No. 4 (December, 2005): 1155-1188. May, Robert E. Manifest Destiny's Underworld: Filibustering in Antebellum America. Chapel Hill: The University of North Carolina Press, 2002. McMichael, Andrew. “The Kemper ‘Rebellion’: Filibustering and Resident Anglo American Loyalty in Spanish West Florida.” Louisiana History: The Journal of the Louisiana Historical Association 43, No. 2 (Spring, 2002): 133-165. Owsley Jr., Frank and Gene A. Smith, Filibusters and Expansionists: Jeffersonian Manifest Destiny, 1800-1821. Tuscaloosa: University Alabama Press, 2004. Pratt, Julius W. “John L. O’Sullivan and Manifest Destiny.” New York History 14, No. 3 (July, 1933): 213-234. Richardson, Caleb. "'The Failure of the Men to Come UP': The Reinvention of Irish-American Nationalism." In Reconstruction in a Globalizing World, ed. David Prior, 121-144. New York: Fordham University Press, 2018. amzn.to/2ztpwGK Rippy, J. Fred. “Anglo-American Filibusters and the Gadsden Treaty.” The Hispanic American Historical Review 5, No. 2 (May, 1922): 155-180. Stephen Dando-Collins, Tycoon's War: How Cornelius Vanderbilt Invaded a Country to Overthrow America's Most Famous Military Adventurer. Cambridge, Mass.: Da Capo Press, 2009. Scoggs, William O. “William Walker's Designs on Cuba.” The Mississippi Valley Historical Review 1, No. 2 (September, 1914): 198-211. Stout Jr., Joseph A. Schemers and Dreamers: Filibustering in Mexico, 1848-1921. Fort Worth: Texas Christian University Press, 2002. amzn.to/2u71Dls Walker, William. War in Nicaragua. New York: S. H. Goetzel & Co, 1860.
Hmm...I haven't found anything that says he actually met Goebbels and Goring on a regular basis or that he liked them at first. In my (admittedly brief and cursory) research, he just ran into Goring at a party in Italy and was furious when he and his girlfriend got kicked out of their villa because Goring was going to stay there instead. According to his daughter, his dislike of Goring was almost instant, and he never did any deals with him, though they did sell explosives to Mussolini (after some initial setbacks). Couldn't find anything on him meeting Goebbels ever. But like I said, my research was brief.
@@GrosvnerMcaffrey Can-burr-ah and melbin (its really difficult to get melbourne right given the accent, but its kinda how you pronounce "melvin" only with a B in place of the V)
Some guy: Let make a historical flim about this person he was interesting Hollywood: history is boring let’s write a script to make a interesting story and put historical people and make them interesting instead of boring cause history is boring plus you only got two hours Guy: I’m out I quuit Hollywood: we don’t need you anyway
I beg you to do an episode on the Alamo (2004). To me it’s a very good film which I think would be good to review and to my knowledge, hasn’t been reviewed yet on UA-cam.
Greatest flick ever, it was the closest portrayal of Bugsy, he's a legend! And when I say legend, I mean he's more like a myth 😅I'm just surprised you didn't mention the fact he was trying to be an actor. RIP to the godfather of Vegas, he is the progenitor of what Vegas became in the coming years
Basically in terms of storytelling and accuracy, Bugsy should've actually been more like Casino, where Ben Siegel was more like the Nicky Santoro with some Sam Rothstein sprinkled in. Do the movie American Gangster next.
This came out when I was in high school. I liked it, still do a little. Even at the time, knowing little about Siegel I thought the history sounded suspect, especially regarding his role in the development of the gambling industry. I just took it as a lesson that movies are a poor source of historical and biographical info. Looks like you'll cover Casino at some point. I love that movie, and I happen to have lived near some of the people involved, so there are multiple truth values to the events and people involved. My guess is that one thing you'll point out is that the mob guys overstate their own importance to the Vegas casino business, and understate the ridiculous inefficiency and incompetence that cost them the influence they did have.
"glorified" Not the same thing. Anyways, the video's main topic is about the accuracy of Las Vegas' history. Debunking the myths of how it came to be and the movie played up Bugsey's involvement big time.
@@dannygjk I know the definition. And again, the topic of the video's essay is on how much credit and recognition Bugsey Seigel recieves in the creation of Las Vegas. That's what the myth glorifies. That's what this movie glorifies. That's what this video is debunking.
Nevadans can call it whatever they want and either is honestly fine except in the semantics of what locals prefer you to say. But Nevada is a Spanish word and the Spanish named the region, so in the most technical way it is pronounced Nay - ba - da
I really don't understand Mussolini subplot cuz, correct me if I'm wrong but Mussolini did'n even exterminate Jews. Also Warren Beatty is to old for this roll, he does not look like he is 30-40. and guy that plays Lucky is at least 60. Movie is stupid.
Your thoughts on ‘Mobsters’ (a ‘90’s movie set in the early days of gangsters like Lucky & Bugsy- with Christian Slater, a young Patrick Dempsey, F Murray Abraham, & the late Anthony Quinn) might be interesting...
CommentCop Badge#666 Pretty much! It’s a guilty pleasure, but I saw a doco-drama a century ago- I think it was called ‘The Mob: Underground’ or ‘Murder Inc.’ & it made me realise the movie’s streamlined, almost to the point of incongruousness.... this is a flaw in **a lot** of historical fiction/ historical dramas.
Oh I unapologetically love the movie too. And oh yeah, the plot definitely streamlines actual incidents but most of all the liberties taken is wayyyyy up and out there. If it were to be a subject on this channel it would be torn to shreds over the inacuracies of facts. LOL! The biggest laughable one is Faranzano "terrorizes" Luciano's family when he was young.
1:31 No he wasn't, "that great visionary''. In fact Bugsy was so much deficient in vision that his partners shot him through both eyes for ''good'' measure, eyes that in his eyefoul life he was so proud of, that just calling him ''Baby Blue Eyes" would appease him : That's according to good old George Raft. Source : ''The Green Felt Jungle"(1964) By that incredible Laurel&Hardy-like team of intrepid investigative journalists : Ovid Demaris (small, dark & thin) and Ed Reid (florid, rotund & huge)
Does the mob still have a major influence in Las Vegas,New York City and LA today? Also noticed that Bugsy's checkered suit in what inspired Benny's look in Fallout New Vegas. Actually is the whole character just supposed to be a Bugsy type character because now that i think about it,makes a lot of sense.They both seem similar storywise,physically,mannerisms and in speech which is a cool detail if so.
I'm from New Orleans and JFK is actually one of my favorite films. Not only because I love History but also because it mostly takes place in my home city. Since you just said how bad JFK is about historical accuracy, I want you to do something for me. Do me a real solid and TEAR IT APART!!! I mean it, when it comes to movies regarding history I automatically assume they are wrong to some extent and I like your stuff. So do JFK please!!!!!
Marcus Roots I want him to tackle World Trade Center which was directed by stone too or do untied 93 or the tv version flight 93 and I want to know which one is the more accurate version the Hollywood one or tv one
I requested that movie years ago but he kindly declined and he did not specified why, maybe it is because JFK is not about JFK but about Jim Garrison and is hard to proof or disproof his claims.
@@BradyPostma To be fair, JFK isn't supposed to be an accurate account of events. It argues for a number of conspiracy theories that Stone believes in.
They might not be accurate but that doesn't make them bad films, the only times inaccuracies bother me is when it is so obvious it becomes distracting or when it becomes insulting to specific people like green book, but being historically inaccurate isn't that big of a deal a film has to be a good film first and a good historical film second and it doesn't have to be accurate but it has to be believable.
Would love to see you do a based on a true story of Ed Wood. Can the cynical historian handle the incredible true story of Edward D Wood Jr.? It isn't trying for true accuracy, but more of a feel on the guy.
Out of curiosity, have you ever watched Gallipoli? In Australia it's shown to us in school so I was wondering how accurate the movie is to the real life Gallipoli campaign.
May I correct one of your points: Gas chambers were first used in 1940 in "Aktion T4", as it was called later (killing disabled people mostly, everyone characterized as "unworthy of living"). Although the gas was carbon monoxide first. First use of of hydrogen cyanide based gasing was in early 1942, as you said.
Sorry, have to correct myself. The testrun of Zyklon B with 600 Sovjet POWs was already conducted in late 1941 in the basement of the old polish cavallery barracks in Auschwitz.
@@CynicalHistorian Is there any record of debate over the official pronunciation of the name of the state. I suspect that it was chosen to distance the state from its Mexican heritage. I could be wrong.
@@stevenmiller5400 quite incorrect actually. Firstly, there is hardly any Mexican heritage to speak of in Nevada. Literally Las Vegas was watering hole on the way to/from California - and that's all the state has. Second, the pronunciation is derived from a Spanish dialect called Alta Californio, as attested by Francisco Ramirez, editor of _El Clamor Publico._ We don't called pronounce California Kahlifornee-ah, nor do we pronounce Nevada Nay-vahdah. It's been like that since the 1850s at the very least. Or as the so-called "beard of knowledge" like to put it: You have to learn how to mispronounce correctly
A long time ago, a tv-series called "Gangster Chronicles (1981)" was released. It showed Siegel, Lansky and Luciano. Now I haven't done the research (any) but it's like someone thought: "What about if we make a series about those gangsters, but when they were kids?" I think "Once Upon A Time In America (1984)" is pretty good, as it shows how *respectable All-American families* (Baileys, Bushes, Kennedys) started out as booze smuggling thugs. And it also showed the gangsters when they were still kids. Ah dunno, is "Gangster Chronicles" anywhere near the real thing?
Ben Siegel was murdered in June of 1947. Not 1949 as you mistakenly mentioned. Siegel was a product of Brooklyn, NY, which was where Murder Incorporated and Al Capone also originated from. Brooklyn is the epicenter of gangsterism! Ben Siegel was a very interesting character in gangland history. I agree that the film was lousy. Bill Graham the legendary rock concert promoter, portraying Lucky Luciano was such a miscast that it was an embarrassment. Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel was a despicable human being. However, he was also a gangster Hall of Famer!
@@CynicalHistorian that's a cool nickname for your platoon. As for the Vegas Gamgsters proposed here, the most I got is the Desert Dwellers. From what I've read, the Mob was always trying to get Bugsy out of their hair, though it's been a while and Joseph Bonanno's "A Man of Honor" didn't talk about him at length so it could be crappy memory talking here
@Jim lastname - I mean that there was a different video months ago wherein Cypher spent quite some time talking about his dad, Pawn Stars, and why he kept the relationship secret for so long (spoilers: because he wanted to make it on his own merits, not on Daddy's coattails). And apparently not everyone saw or remembered it. It's not a crime, but given the thought and effort Cypher put into it I can imagine his being annoyed by it being ignored. I was empathizing with him, not condemning you.
@Jim lastname - I don't know which video it was. I seem to remember that it was about the local history of southern Nevada, but a bit of looking around got me nowhere. Your apology is, of course, accepted without hesitation.
I had a friend w/ a class-3 license who moved from Pahrump b/c it was "too crowded." He went to Crystal, NV cause Walmart out-competed his pawnshop. Then he sold his arms to some range in downtown Vegas. I still find that funny
@@CynicalHistorian As someone who has lived my entire adult life and part of my childhood in extremely rural places (2 hour drive to the grocery store, the post office was in Lula's garage kind of places) I could stand to live a little further out, but I prefer not to call it crowded, more like cozy.
Did you do a video on the JFK movie? I'm new to your channel and haven't seen the movie since it was new. I would like to hear your view on the movie, I remember it being a big deal
Not related to Bugsy, but as a Las Vegas historian, do you or your father have any opinions you could share on the book "Storming Caesar's Palace" about the Operation Life welfare rights organization? I am a graduate student who had to read it and found it really fun to read. Just curious.
It was good, though lacking nuance. Needed to give a larger picture of Las Vegas, because much of that distorts her narrative quite a bit. My dad dislikes it, but that's more because of the lack of nuance than because of the overall argument
Is it very bad that I literally can't tell the difference between the two pronunciations of Nevada, and that both seems weird to me (mainly because the pronunciation of the v, which in Spanish is never pronounced different from the "b". Or would that draw the ire of Nevadans? (In my defense, I am Spanish, the way Americans pronounce every Spanish toponym sounds off to me)
It's interesting that everyone pronounces "Pecan" differently. In Chicago we say "Pee Kahn" but many people in other states say "Puh Kahn" and in the South they say "Pee Can"
I still think Bugsy is a good story and a good movie, it's just not a true story. I guess I've always chalked it up to Mafia fan fiction, I always knew it wasn't just inaccurate. That said, I do understand why historians would absolutely despise it, for people who don't know the history, this would absolutely be seen as truth.
As someone who also lives in a state people mispronounce all the time, I feel for you Nevadans. It does highlight who is an out-of-towner or new, though.
Most US states are usually mispronounced by the locals that barely speak English, much less the languages their local place names originate from. Nevada and Arkansas are just the most inglorious examples of that mistaken local pride.
As with "JFK," I loved "Bugsy" as a piece of entertainment. I certainly didn't think they were serious history pieces, even though "JFK" did cover a trial that actually happened. What I found interesting is that "JFK" took SO MUCH flak for its inaccuracies and its portrayal of history, etc., but "Bugsy" was the media darling, and also the favorite for Best Picture so it did not come under the same scrutiny for its OWN inaccuracies that JFK did. That was just an observation. No offense, but I didn't think the 1991 Best Picture winner "The Silence of the Lambs" was all that. Sorry. I felt that the Academy Award for Best Achievement in Film or Best Picture should have gone to "JFK." Great film from start to finish as a film. Unfortunately, the President of the Academy was a former aide to President LBJ, so that was another reason it lost. Regardless of the film's inaccuracies, I thought it was the Best Picture. See the 1997 Best Picture "Titanic" by James Cameron. Are there inaccuracies? Yup. Great film? Yup. Deserved its Oscars Oh hell yeah.
In Hollywood's defence; it's hard to research a place when everything that happens there stays there...
One good portrayal of Bugsy is in Boardwalk Empire, where he's portrayed as a creepy psychopathic weirdo. Boardwalk wasn't the best show in terms of accuracy, but they definitely got Bugsy right. He was a creep, not a movie star.
Or Benny from New Vegas
so fallout new Vegas got him right with the Benny character.
Benny was smarter than Siegel ever was......plus he could run the tops....they had similar taste of dress though.
Not sure if Siegel was ever made out of pure wood, though. . .
Isaac Schmitt a fair point indeed...
Chain 321 although one of them had the better quotes spoilers it’s Benny
Hahah
No, I never liked "Bugsy" either. Back when it was released, I hated the idea of glamorizing a criminal. Good job. Your work, by the way, is one of the inspirations for my videos.
Seems to be a thing for film makers. In the UK we had a pair of identical twin gangsters called the Kray twins. Legend with Tom Hardy is the most recent big movie about them. The still have a glamourous image despite the fact they were nothing more than vicious thugs. And Ronnie was quite literally a mental case. And yet they are lionised by a great many people.
@@daveharrison4697
The Good are now the bad
&
the bad are now the good to idolize & emulate.
How was Bugsy Siegel glamorized? Did the movie not inform you that he was a sociopathic mobster?
Philadelphia Baseball History It’s disappointing horrible casting on Warren Beatty who can’t act for shit
something was really wholesome about cypher having to explain his fathers anger
I enjoyed Bugsy as a piece of entertainment. I never thought of it as a historically accurate depiction of reality.
Since Hamilton is now on Disney plus, could you do a based on a true story on Hamilton.
I wonder if The Godfather Part II isn’t at least partly responsible for propagating the Bugsy Siegel myth. If you remember Hyman Roth has that monologue praising Moe Greene as the guy who “invented” Las Vegas. “And there isn’t even a plaque, or a statue or a signpost of him in that town.” Since Roth and Moe Greene are obvious stand-ins for Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Siegel, many people who have seen GF II may interpret his monologue as actual history.
There's a statue now at the Flamingo, probably because of that quote.
From one historian to another, your vids are brilliant, well written, and full of solid evidence, serious yet still often humorous. Thank you for all your hard work, research, and public scope!
Also the film portrays Virginia Hill as a hollywood actress rather than the foul mouth bag lady for the mob that she actually was.
I hate historical inaccuracies. Everybody knows Moe Greene was the man who built Las Vegas, from a desert stopover for GIs, and there isn't even a plaque, or signpost, or statue of him in that town.
Coop Murphy That man made his bones while everyone else was still going out with cheerleaders
Someone put a bullet through his eye. Nobody knew who did it or who gave the order. Nobody asked. They all knew Moe, he was headstrong, he was loud and said stupid things. Hey, it was the business they chose. And that's that.
Video: his dad appears on screen
Me : hey it’s the historian from pawn stars
Cynical: “yeah Dad”
Me: 🧐 hmmm the plot thickens
Good video btw 😀
There are videos on his channel where he mentions Mark Hall-Patton is his father. I know he mentioned this in the video on the 1970 Patton movie and the video explaining his own origins in the Southwest. You can check them out if you haven't done so already...
...unless this is a joke and you knew that in which case, I'll take one from the bowl of L's and hop on the last train to Clarksville.
@@legoworksstudios1 I thought he was making a joke when he said that and i scroll down here and thats weird but also makes sense. lol
David Taylor thank you for the added context, it was mostly a joke though it was also a discovery. As I haven’t been watching for the longest. Though from context clue in the videos I’ve seen I joked about mark being his dad. So when he put that part in it hit me and was like totally gotta make the joke. Hope that clears that up part joke part serious . :)
Cozzi right dude I felt the same way 😂
Wait your the son of the historain that is on pawn stars some times?
He mentioned it in his 100k vid
Gavin L the plot thickens
Not just *any* historian...he’s “The Beard of Knowledge”.
They had Mob summits? Like VidCon for mobsters?
MobCon does sound interesting.
@@KKKKKKK777js some very wacky panels would await us at MobCon
@@diggs5142 Probably stuff like: How to hide a body, autograph signings (Likely on mugshot photos), previews on the latest weapons, and live performances from the Rat Pack.
Look up the Appalachian mob meeting...
I liked your comment about your Father, "The Socalled Beard of Knowledge."
I loved the movie "Bugsy" when it came out in 1991 and, in spite of what I have since learned about about him and the history of organized crime, it is still one of my favorite movies. Rather than being a factual history lesson about organized crime in 1940s Los Angeles, it's a sort of reimagining of "The Great Gatsby" by way of "Goodfellas" and it pulls it off with terrific style and a great cast.
As to suing, that's why these movies always contain "All characters and events depicted in this film are entirely fictitious. Any similarity to actual events or persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental"
I've not actually seen this movie though I assume it's in there. And thanks to this video I'm not going to waste an evening finding out.
I feel like your dad is far more entertaining being able to freestyle history than he ever is on pawnstars. He seems so genuine and enthusiastic about his subject matter that I would probably go broke buying him beers (or drink of choice) and listen to him tell me history.
Hilariously, we were just sitting at the dinner table talking about the film and I was like, "hold on! I should get some footage of you ranting." That's literally all the prompting it took. I ran upstairs grabbed my camera and took it down. I'd only been back home for a day. He's been doing TV interviews since before I was born, so he's good at this kind of thing
@@CynicalHistorian Hahaha amazing how that works out! Also thanks for replying that's never happened to me before so it's pretty cool! I loved both your Patton review and the Filibusters (I'm trying to find good books on the subject) . Please keep up the great work!!!!
@@andrewshepherd1633 I can always recommend books on filibusters. Depends on what you're looking for. Like do you wanna know more about William Walker, or about more obscure stuff like the Crabb Expedition? I've actually done a lot on filibusters (academically) since I made that video
@@CynicalHistorian Please do- I'm interested in the subject as a whole so any and everything really. Though I have to admit William Walker sounded like an absolutely insane forerunner of Bob Denard so I definitely wouldn't mind learning more about him.
@@andrewshepherd1633 Here's a bibliography for you:
Nice primaries: www.latinamericanstudies.org/filibusters.htm
Alessio, Dominic. “Filibustering from Africa to the Americas: Nonstate Actors and Empire.” Small Wars & Insurgencies 27, No. 6 (October, 2016): 1043-1066.
Bradley, Ed. “Fighting for Texas: Filibuster James Long, the Adams-Onis Treaty, and the Monroe Administration.” The Southwestern Historical Quarterly 102, No. 3 (January, 1999): 322-342.
Bradley, Ed. We Never Retreat: Filibustering Expeditions into Spanish Texas, 1812-1822. College Station: Texas A&M University Press, 2015. amzn.to/2YOWkny
Bridges, C.A. “The Knights of the Golden Circle: A Filibustering fantasy.” The Southwestern Historical Quarterly 44, No. 3 (January 1941): 287-302.
Chaffin, Tom. “‘Sons of Washington’: Narciso Lopez, filibustering, and U.S. Nationalism, 1848-1851.” Journal of the Early Republic 15, No. 1 (Spring, 1995): 76-108.
Chaffin, Tom. Fatal glory : Narciso López and the first clandestine U.S. War against Cuba. Charlottesville : University Press of Virginia, 1996.
Cova, Antonio Rafael de la. “Fernandina Filibuster Fiasco: Birth of the 1895 Cuban War of Independence.” The Florida Historical Quarterly 82, No. 1 (Summer, 2003): 16-42.
Cova, Antonio Rafael de la. “Filibusters and Freemasons: The Sworn Obligation.” Journal of the Early Republic 17, No. 1 (Spring, 1997): 95-120.
Crenshaw, Ollinger. “The Knights of the Golden Circle: The Career of George Bickley.” The American Historical Review 47, No. 1 (Oct. 1941): 23-50.
Denton, Andrew. “Filibusterism and Catholicity: Narciso López, William Walker, and the Antebellum Struggle for America's Souls.” U.S. Catholic Historian 33, No. 4 (Fall, 2015): 1-26.
Gobat, Michel. Empire by Invitation: William Walker and Manifest Destiny in Central America. Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 2018.
Gobat, Michel. Confronting the American Dream: Nicaragua under U.S. Imperial Rule. Durham, N.Carol.: Duke University Press, 2005.
Greenberg, Amy S. “A Gray-Eyed Man: Character, Appearance, and Filibustering.” Journal of the Early Republic 20, No. 4 (Winter, 2000): 673-699.
Keehn, David C. Knights of the Golden Circle: Secret Empire, Southern Secession, Civil War. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, 2013.
May, Robert E. “Reconsidering Antebellum U.S. Women's History: Gender, Filibustering, and America's Quest for Empire.” American Quarterly 57, No. 4 (December, 2005): 1155-1188.
May, Robert E. Manifest Destiny's Underworld: Filibustering in Antebellum America. Chapel Hill: The University of North Carolina Press, 2002.
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Pratt, Julius W. “John L. O’Sullivan and Manifest Destiny.” New York History 14, No. 3 (July, 1933): 213-234.
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Stout Jr., Joseph A. Schemers and Dreamers: Filibustering in Mexico, 1848-1921. Fort Worth: Texas Christian University Press, 2002. amzn.to/2u71Dls
Walker, William. War in Nicaragua. New York: S. H. Goetzel & Co, 1860.
Good video, dispelled several myths I had about the mob and my hometown.
Hmm...I haven't found anything that says he actually met Goebbels and Goring on a regular basis or that he liked them at first. In my (admittedly brief and cursory) research, he just ran into Goring at a party in Italy and was furious when he and his girlfriend got kicked out of their villa because Goring was going to stay there instead.
According to his daughter, his dislike of Goring was almost instant, and he never did any deals with him, though they did sell explosives to Mussolini (after some initial setbacks).
Couldn't find anything on him meeting Goebbels ever. But like I said, my research was brief.
As an Australian, the way people say Melbourne and Canberra is the same frustration you feel at "Nevada" mispronunciation, lol
How do you pronounce those?
@@GrosvnerMcaffrey Can-burr-ah and melbin (its really difficult to get melbourne right given the accent, but its kinda how you pronounce "melvin" only with a B in place of the V)
@@beauson1983 interesting I've only ever heard people say mel born canburrah I have heard but wasn't sure which was which
"Let their be flamingo" I really want that to be a super power.
Bugsy is indeed extremely historically inaccurate.
Some guy: Let make a historical flim about this person he was interesting
Hollywood: history is boring let’s write a script to make a interesting story and put historical people and make them interesting instead of boring cause history is boring plus you only got two hours
Guy: I’m out I quuit
Hollywood: we don’t need you anyway
I beg you to do an episode on the Alamo (2004). To me it’s a very good film which I think would be good to review and to my knowledge, hasn’t been reviewed yet on UA-cam.
1 minute in and I already know we're in for a good one
I see a lot of family resemblance.
I know about Meyers Cohen a bit through a game called LA Noire and Long live the beard of knowledge
I will never have a nickname as awesome as "the beard of knowledge"
Great job, Cypher!
I saw this film when it came out. Forgot most of the substance of it.
Continued success to you!
That "Nevada" moment is so relatable. It is a spanish word dagnabbit!
Cypher, review, Casino, and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood??
Can you please do one on Munich really love the vids by the way
I... honestly can't tell the difference in the pronunciation of Nevada. Like, at all.
right: Nev- aa (like in cat) - duh
wrong: Nuh- vah - duh
it's aa vs ahh
Eh
Greatest flick ever, it was the closest portrayal of Bugsy, he's a legend! And when I say legend, I mean he's more like a myth 😅I'm just surprised you didn't mention the fact he was trying to be an actor. RIP to the godfather of Vegas, he is the progenitor of what Vegas became in the coming years
I almost retired to Vegas, I don't gamble but with all of my other bad habits, it didn't seem conducive to a long retirement.
Basically in terms of storytelling and accuracy, Bugsy should've actually been more like Casino, where Ben Siegel was more like the Nicky Santoro with some Sam Rothstein sprinkled in.
Do the movie American Gangster next.
This came out when I was in high school. I liked it, still do a little. Even at the time, knowing little about Siegel I thought the history sounded suspect, especially regarding his role in the development of the gambling industry. I just took it as a lesson that movies are a poor source of historical and biographical info.
Looks like you'll cover Casino at some point. I love that movie, and I happen to have lived near some of the people involved, so there are multiple truth values to the events and people involved. My guess is that one thing you'll point out is that the mob guys overstate their own importance to the Vegas casino business, and understate the ridiculous inefficiency and incompetence that cost them the influence they did have.
How was Bugsy Siegel glamorized? Did the movie not inform you that he was a sociopathic mobster?
"glorified" Not the same thing. Anyways, the video's main topic is about the accuracy of Las Vegas' history. Debunking the myths of how it came to be and the movie played up Bugsey's involvement big time.
@@commentcopbadge6665 ok glorified. Look up the definition.
@@dannygjk
I know the definition. And again, the topic of the video's essay is on how much credit and recognition Bugsey Seigel recieves in the creation of Las Vegas. That's what the myth glorifies. That's what this movie glorifies. That's what this video is debunking.
Nevadans can call it whatever they want and either is honestly fine except in the semantics of what locals prefer you to say. But Nevada is a Spanish word and the Spanish named the region, so in the most technical way it is pronounced Nay - ba - da
I really don't understand Mussolini subplot cuz, correct me if I'm wrong but Mussolini did'n even exterminate Jews. Also Warren Beatty is to old for this roll, he does not look like he is 30-40. and guy that plays Lucky is at least 60. Movie is stupid.
Holy shit your dad is the beard of knowledge??? That's awesome...new sub btw!!
Your thoughts on ‘Mobsters’ (a ‘90’s movie set in the early days of gangsters like Lucky & Bugsy- with Christian Slater, a young Patrick Dempsey, F Murray Abraham, & the late Anthony Quinn) might be interesting...
Young Guns but with the mafia.
CommentCop Badge#666
Pretty much!
It’s a guilty pleasure, but I saw a doco-drama a century ago- I think it was called ‘The Mob: Underground’ or ‘Murder Inc.’ & it made me realise the movie’s streamlined, almost to the point of incongruousness.... this is a flaw in **a lot** of historical fiction/ historical dramas.
Oh I unapologetically love the movie too. And oh yeah, the plot definitely streamlines actual incidents but most of all the liberties taken is wayyyyy up and out there. If it were to be a subject on this channel it would be torn to shreds over the inacuracies of facts. LOL! The biggest laughable one is Faranzano "terrorizes" Luciano's family when he was young.
1:31 No he wasn't, "that great visionary''.
In fact Bugsy was so much deficient in vision that his partners shot him through both eyes for ''good'' measure,
eyes that in his eyefoul life he was so proud of, that just calling him ''Baby Blue Eyes" would appease him :
That's according to good old George Raft.
Source : ''The Green Felt Jungle"(1964)
By that incredible Laurel&Hardy-like team of intrepid investigative journalists :
Ovid Demaris (small, dark & thin) and Ed Reid (florid, rotund & huge)
Does the mob still have a major influence in Las Vegas,New York City and LA today? Also noticed that Bugsy's checkered suit in what inspired Benny's look in Fallout New Vegas. Actually is the whole character just supposed to be a Bugsy type character because now that i think about it,makes a lot of sense.They both seem similar storywise,physically,mannerisms and in speech which is a cool detail if so.
They take all your money, but you have so much fun, you go back for more. Beat that.
I'm from New Orleans and JFK is actually one of my favorite films. Not only because I love History but also because it mostly takes place in my home city. Since you just said how bad JFK is about historical accuracy, I want you to do something for me. Do me a real solid and TEAR IT APART!!! I mean it, when it comes to movies regarding history I automatically assume they are wrong to some extent and I like your stuff. So do JFK please!!!!!
Marcus Roots I want him to tackle World Trade Center which was directed by stone too or do untied 93 or the tv version flight 93 and I want to know which one is the more accurate version the Hollywood one or tv one
I seem to recall Cypher saying that Oliver Stone is so wildly wrong that it's difficult to know where to start. Can anyone confirm?
I also want him to tackle JFK, for the very same reason. To show where Stone got it wrong.
I requested that movie years ago but he kindly declined and he did not specified why, maybe it is because JFK is not about JFK but about Jim Garrison and is hard to proof or disproof his claims.
@@BradyPostma To be fair, JFK isn't supposed to be an accurate account of events. It argues for a number of conspiracy theories that Stone believes in.
If Pawn Stars is really your father, where's your damn beard?
Holy smokes he's your father. Now I understand your interest in history. Cool though.
They might not be accurate but that doesn't make them bad films, the only times inaccuracies bother me is when it is so obvious it becomes distracting or when it becomes insulting to specific people like green book, but being historically inaccurate isn't that big of a deal a film has to be a good film first and a good historical film second and it doesn't have to be accurate but it has to be believable.
Would love to see you do a based on a true story of Ed Wood. Can the cynical historian handle the incredible true story of Edward D Wood Jr.? It isn't trying for true accuracy, but more of a feel on the guy.
Out of curiosity, have you ever watched Gallipoli? In Australia it's shown to us in school so I was wondering how accurate the movie is to the real life Gallipoli campaign.
yes, but haven't done the research to know if it's any good. It's fun though
May I correct one of your points: Gas chambers were first used in 1940 in "Aktion T4", as it was called later (killing disabled people mostly, everyone characterized as "unworthy of living").
Although the gas was carbon monoxide first. First use of of hydrogen cyanide based gasing was in early 1942, as you said.
Sorry, have to correct myself. The testrun of Zyklon B with 600 Sovjet POWs was already conducted in late 1941 in the basement of the old polish cavallery barracks in Auschwitz.
It’s NeVADA, not NeVODA I never knew people said the state wrong
the further east you go, the more likely Americans will get it wrong
@@CynicalHistorian Is there any record of debate over the official pronunciation of the name of the state. I suspect that it was chosen to distance the state from its Mexican heritage. I could be wrong.
@@stevenmiller5400 quite incorrect actually. Firstly, there is hardly any Mexican heritage to speak of in Nevada. Literally Las Vegas was watering hole on the way to/from California - and that's all the state has. Second, the pronunciation is derived from a Spanish dialect called Alta Californio, as attested by Francisco Ramirez, editor of _El Clamor Publico._ We don't called pronounce California Kahlifornee-ah, nor do we pronounce Nevada Nay-vahdah. It's been like that since the 1850s at the very least. Or as the so-called "beard of knowledge" like to put it: You have to learn how to mispronounce correctly
@@CynicalHistorian Thanks for the info.
The Cynical Historian I am from the eastern seaboard and I feel like I’m the only one here who can say it the right way
My favorite Vegas history is "Last Call" by Tim Powers.
Review on Victoria and Abdul!
So Las Vegas, as the general public knows it, basically is a filmset.
Keep these comin' ! Would love to see one on Doheny / oil history in California.
You have the dates of his murder wrong....it was June 20, 1947 not 1949 you see how inaccuracies happen!!
A long time ago, a tv-series called "Gangster Chronicles (1981)" was released.
It showed Siegel, Lansky and Luciano.
Now I haven't done the research (any) but it's like someone thought:
"What about if we make a series about those gangsters, but when they were kids?"
I think "Once Upon A Time In America (1984)" is pretty good, as it shows how *respectable All-American families* (Baileys, Bushes, Kennedys) started out as booze smuggling thugs. And it also showed the gangsters when they were still kids.
Ah dunno, is "Gangster Chronicles" anywhere near the real thing?
Ben Siegel was murdered in June of 1947. Not 1949 as you mistakenly mentioned.
Siegel was a product of Brooklyn, NY, which was where Murder Incorporated and Al Capone also originated from.
Brooklyn is the epicenter of gangsterism!
Ben Siegel was a very interesting character in gangland history.
I agree that the film was lousy.
Bill Graham the legendary rock concert promoter, portraying Lucky Luciano was such a miscast that it was an embarrassment.
Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel was a despicable human being. However, he was also a gangster Hall of Famer!
As a Californian who lived near the state border all my life, hearing Neh-vaw-duh makes my eyes water.
I hear you. I live in Chicago and everyone else pronounces our state "Illinoise"
Ok Cypher, I get that Las Vegas wasn’t founded by the mob. But I’m still calling my Las Vegas based OOTP team the Las Vegas Gangsters.
founders don't require namesakes. In Afghanistan, my platoon was called Blackjack
@@CynicalHistorian that's a cool nickname for your platoon. As for the Vegas Gamgsters proposed here, the most I got is the Desert Dwellers. From what I've read, the Mob was always trying to get Bugsy out of their hair, though it's been a while and Joseph Bonanno's "A Man of Honor" didn't talk about him at length so it could be crappy memory talking here
your dad is THE beard of knowledge? wow
You and your father share the same hatred at films which have a historical setting but are historically inaccurate.
we actually disagree on the next one. I'm more lenient
How annoying is it to make a big reveal video for "Yep, he's my dad." and still have people months later going, "Wait, he's your DAD?!"
@@BradyPostma extremely, but i guess it's inevitable
@Jim lastname - I mean that there was a different video months ago wherein Cypher spent quite some time talking about his dad, Pawn Stars, and why he kept the relationship secret for so long (spoilers: because he wanted to make it on his own merits, not on Daddy's coattails).
And apparently not everyone saw or remembered it.
It's not a crime, but given the thought and effort Cypher put into it I can imagine his being annoyed by it being ignored. I was empathizing with him, not condemning you.
@Jim lastname - I don't know which video it was. I seem to remember that it was about the local history of southern Nevada, but a bit of looking around got me nowhere.
Your apology is, of course, accepted without hesitation.
Cool dad
I know nothing about bugsby and Nevada so I never had the bad information, but this is neat nonetheless
Idea for a future video;
Motherless Brooklyn and the history of Robert Moses?
@Sam Huston definitely. People say Frank Lucas was the King of New York. Robert Moses built New York.
I'm over the hump here, got anything about our neck of Southern Nevada?
would love to know more
please and thank you
I had a friend w/ a class-3 license who moved from Pahrump b/c it was "too crowded." He went to Crystal, NV cause Walmart out-competed his pawnshop. Then he sold his arms to some range in downtown Vegas. I still find that funny
@@CynicalHistorian As someone who has lived my entire adult life and part of my childhood in extremely rural places (2 hour drive to the grocery store, the post office was in Lula's garage kind of places) I could stand to live a little further out, but I prefer not to call it crowded, more like cozy.
Can you cover The Kent state shooting or one on Jessie Wilson sayre
Did you do a video on the JFK movie? I'm new to your channel and haven't seen the movie since it was new. I would like to hear your view on the movie, I remember it being a big deal
Now I want to see him review Reds. I'm curious now on how much Warren Beatty butchered Jack Reeds life now.
Not related to Bugsy, but as a Las Vegas historian, do you or your father have any opinions you could share on the book "Storming Caesar's Palace" about the Operation Life welfare rights organization? I am a graduate student who had to read it and found it really fun to read. Just curious.
It was good, though lacking nuance. Needed to give a larger picture of Las Vegas, because much of that distorts her narrative quite a bit. My dad dislikes it, but that's more because of the lack of nuance than because of the overall argument
@@CynicalHistorian Thanks.
Wondered if you'd do these 3--yeah!
He sold weapons to the Nazis? Is there more to read on this one that you can direct me to?
Is it very bad that I literally can't tell the difference between the two pronunciations of Nevada, and that both seems weird to me (mainly because the pronunciation of the v, which in Spanish is never pronounced different from the "b". Or would that draw the ire of Nevadans? (In my defense, I am Spanish, the way Americans pronounce every Spanish toponym sounds off to me)
Ne-va-da, Ne-vah-dah! To-may-to, To- mah-to!
LOL!
It's interesting that everyone pronounces "Pecan" differently. In Chicago we say "Pee Kahn" but many people in other states say "Puh Kahn" and in the South they say "Pee Can"
Just like the video-game adaptation !
The Aviator is a movie about Los Vegas?
In real life, one of the assassin's shots took Bugsy's eye out and it landed on the carpet. Good. He truly was a bastard. A thug and a murderer.
Could you do an episode on Green Book?
kinda did w/ the top-10 of that year
Oh
Thank you for using the spy from TF2
i do like it as fairytale though
I still think Bugsy is a good story and a good movie, it's just not a true story. I guess I've always chalked it up to Mafia fan fiction, I always knew it wasn't just inaccurate.
That said, I do understand why historians would absolutely despise it, for people who don't know the history, this would absolutely be seen as truth.
please do a video on the presidency of William Henry Harrison
WE GET IT, YOU'RE FROM LAS VEGAS!
Jk excellent and informative video as always Cypher
Hold up. That bearded guy was your father this whole time? I never realised.
No, he just recently became Cypher's father.
As someone who also lives in a state people mispronounce all the time, I feel for you Nevadans. It does highlight who is an out-of-towner or new, though.
Most US states are usually mispronounced by the locals that barely speak English, much less the languages their local place names originate from. Nevada and Arkansas are just the most inglorious examples of that mistaken local pride.
I can't be the only person finding out your dad is Rick's Expert
I'm one minute in and disappointed that this movie is about to get debunked. I always thought it was one of the good ones. Welp, time to go to school.
I doubt very much that anyone would call him Bugsy to his face...But your right the movie is Shit.
This Bugsy guy sounds like a real fink!!!
I've seen Bugsy and yep, it's bad.
4:01 -> yet the movie made him try to assassinate Benito ?
Fortunately he didn't, otherwise 'dolf could well have won the war.
15:07 why did you say "half a decade" instead of "five years"
Dramatic effect. For emphasis.
This was very interesting!
This and JFK were great flicks
If this is how you feel you must hate goodfellas too
I list Casino as the best Las Vegas movie and you still come away with that conclusion? You must hate listening too
As with "JFK," I loved "Bugsy" as a piece of entertainment. I certainly didn't think they were serious history pieces, even though "JFK" did cover a trial that actually happened. What I found interesting is that "JFK" took SO MUCH flak for its inaccuracies and its portrayal of history, etc., but "Bugsy" was the media darling, and also the favorite for Best Picture so it did not come under the same scrutiny for its OWN inaccuracies that JFK did. That was just an observation. No offense, but I didn't think the 1991 Best Picture winner "The Silence of the Lambs" was all that. Sorry. I felt that the Academy Award for Best Achievement in Film or Best Picture should have gone to "JFK." Great film from start to finish as a film. Unfortunately, the President of the Academy was a former aide to President LBJ, so that was another reason it lost. Regardless of the film's inaccuracies, I thought it was the Best Picture. See the 1997 Best Picture "Titanic" by James Cameron. Are there inaccuracies? Yup. Great film? Yup. Deserved its Oscars Oh hell yeah.
So what if I just pronounce Nevada as "snowy"
Are you going to watch the captain about the imposter ss captain
So is FNV best fallout ?