Quick summary of my vehicle: Fix all your window and door seals first. While driving I listen around the interior for the largest source of noise. Front doors. I treat them, they are quiet. Now the noise source is rear floor. I treat that and it's quiet. Now the source of noise is rear doors. I treat that and it's quiet. Now the noise source is the front floorboards. I treat that and it's quiet. Now I can't localize the source of any noise, but it's so much more quiet I stop there. This is a slow method, but it assures results. 👍
@RAW-CAt Stock, oem lincoln navigator door seals. What I mean is if you have any rips or tears in your door seals, you want to fix those. Sometimes a door seal can move out of position or the door might not be closing hard enough to close the gap. So get all that fixed before you start tackling the doors and interior panels. I also wanted to mention that in REW I did an average over four or five seconds, and then I would take a screenshot. This way, if I hit a bump or there was some other unique noise, I could just wait a few seconds for the average to settle down and snap it.
I just post a similar comment. Just wanted to add something here. Check your door latch. You can easily adjust it by loosening it and sliding it towards the interior, then tighten back down. Move it in small increments until its real tight but door still operates correctly. After years of use, the door settles, and the seals compact often leaving gaps. The above will get it nice and tight and super easy. It's probably the easiest thing Ive done that made the biggest difference after ripping out all of my interior. 😂😂😂
Another often effective way of cutting down road noise is to adjust your doors. There should be an adjustable latch. Just loosen it and slide it towards the interior in small increments until its nice and tight. Also check you door seals.
You're finding out what I have been preaching since Chris opened my eyes to it. The CLD mostly cuts noise by the metal not amplifying it anymore, the metal becomes a microphone/speaker and pushes it through the rest of the automobile. The foam does nothing for sound abatement because it's too light. The real heavy hitter in sound abatement is MLV, or some use lead sheet. The added weight acts like a baseball being thrown at a sheet to the sound, it's extremely effective at stopping it. I preach it, nobody listens, to do sound deadening inexpensively is to do it properly. First you stiffen the doors with angle aluminum, use a VHB tape to bond it. On either side of that aluminum (just remembered US spelling, deal with it 😀) use about 25 to 50 percent CLD coverage of that flat area (again, not so much blocking sound as much as you're taking away added sound.) No CLD on the floor of the car, that metal isn't vibrating from sound. The closed cell foam is to separate the MLV/lead sheet from being locked in place and not working as well as it can, nothing else. Then you spend your real money on the MLV, cover everything you can with a continuous sheet. Andy is 100 percent wrong, CLD on the door panels does hardly anything to abate sound, he's trying to use it as an MLV substitute, and it's absolutely terrible at that. Back in the day we added hundreds of pounds of this crap in several layers to the point it started acting like MLV, but you need thousands of dollars and hundreds of pounds of it. CLD is not tape, tape is tape. CLD is not MLV, MLV is MLV. CLD is not a stiffener, stiff things are stiffener adders. CLD is not the magic cure all, it's a specialized tool for a specific job. And foam is to stop crap from banging together that shouldn't be, that is literally foams only function, it does nothing at all for sound abatement. Foam in sound studios has a completely different purpose and 100 percent of that function is to stop echo, it does nothing for the next door room.
Thank you so much for that comment. I'm still a beginner on sound installation, but as a physics lover I always have questioned all those common beliefs about using a lot of CLD on every single metal panel. Is good to see that someone else out there also thinks different.
@cidtelamon sound abatement is a difficult to get your head around because the actual science is basically non existent. You have to piece things together from information here and there, and that is made worse by people (including myself) sticking to old wrong practices because that's the way it's always been done. One thing I forgot to mention is that because you should be using so little CLD you should make sure you buy the best stuff you have available to you. That saves money in the long run because you can use less of it for the same effect. Here in the States that is Resonix, it's not really even close. I have no idea what it is across the pond in Europe, or elsewhere in the world.
There are so many other places noise reduction is needed, as you pointed out. Also, would be interesting to see any measurements before and after when driving alone on the road, not with a lot of traffic. I agree, not a fail. Just the first step in reducing road noise. And noise reduction is the main reason I want to source some double glazed windows for my 2002 BMW 5 series whenever I get around to sound treating it.
yeah Iam also looking for something similar for my Toyota RAV4. As I even modded the ruber door gaskets, the windows are the main source of noise. But not really any chance to find something in aftermarket :/
@@christianwagner6244 The E39 had double glazed windows as an option, but most didnt buy it for their cars, so its fully possible to find... luckily...
I measured my car stock then after full treatment, so I don't have data on what changed what. I measured on the same 55mph road that is particularly noisy, took averages over a 1 mile stretch, both directions and averaged them. I had noticeable reduction. Unfortunately I saved my REW file wrong so all I have is 1 measurement left. it's really annoying. As I was installing the treatment the biggest reductions appeared to be when I did the trunk because there is nothing back there from factory, and the rear wheel wells since they are on the sides of the back seats covered with a panel, no treatment. I also noticed treating the b-pillar since it's right by my ear. and the roof helped with rain noise. In my car I only used CLD and 3M Thinsulate 400.
I think that doing accurate measures in a rolling car in traffic is one of the hardest thing you can do! Maybe better to do it at night on a low traffic road, and the exact same stretch. Or maybe it will say more just doing the measures standing still and having the test sound outside the car to measure how much sound disappears while passing through the doors? Thanks for trying abnd charing any how! ♥️🇸🇪
That's the thing with measuring road noise. So many factors that you have to control to make it even reasonably reproducible, but I believe your summary is right - doors are not the place that has the biggest impact on the overall noise level.
Small pieces dont do anything but a bunch of them can especially if youre just using them to add weight or wrap small vibrating things with. I use similar foam its pretty nice. I also use a lot of duct insulation foam style and the cotton style for various things. Also I buy a ton of mastic rope has a lot of uses for this sort of thing. Then I go to thrift stores to get suitable mats to use for deadening Idk why but I also find straight ensolite rolls from time to time around here so use that a lot too. I just ordered a roll of some 3 in 1 product has the butyl, foam and mlv layer. Been wanting to try it out for years so hoping it works alright.
It's hard, because without a fleet of these cars to test different things, there's only so much data you can test. I think you'll see the biggest difference in road noise with treating the floor and/or wheel wells (not sure if you were doing them as one step or two), but I think once the floor is treated, the doors will then show more. It would be neat, though unrealistic at this point to see the treated floor with untreated doors vs the treated floor and doors together. I don't think this was a fail, I just think it wasn't the greatest starting point.
The difference that I noticed is how the door shuts😂 You know that premium thump. The midbass sounds much better, but noise wise I didn't notice anything even if I tried to convince myself otherwise🤷
Hahaha i guess i can count on you not trying to sell me products then 😅 thanks for the honesty :) and thanks for the effort in making these videos, even though i understand very little of the information 😅
The foam is great. But up here in Canada I'm struggling to find it cheap enough. Do u or anyone know where to look? Everything on Amazon and things is ridiculously expensive.
I got an idea I don't know if you want to try. Can you do measurements at listening position with the door cards off and on? I would like to see what impact the door cards have on the frequency response.
I didn't take any measures, but I had to drive a few hundred km without the driver doorcard on. It wasn't even sound treated and it made quite the difference. The speaker didn't sound as punchy and there was lots more road and wind noise that it was actually a little uncomfortable at highway speeds.
Not the best idea to use foam polyurethane inside the door. It will absorb water, which constantly appears after washing or rain. Plus, its adhesive is not waterproof, so over time, it will peel off, which could lead to a window regulator failure.
@@JesseJames83 MLV needs "space to breathe", that is MLV has to be decoupled from hard surfaces and it has to have as close to 100% coverage as possible. If you squash it between two layers of CCF, it loses its effectiveness. MLV is good on very flat surfaces, such as sides and floor of vans. But for doors... I don't know.
As always super informative content. 👍 There is no one putting out objective data like you!
Quick summary of my vehicle:
Fix all your window and door seals first.
While driving I listen around the interior for the largest source of noise. Front doors. I treat them, they are quiet. Now the noise source is rear floor. I treat that and it's quiet. Now the source of noise is rear doors. I treat that and it's quiet. Now the noise source is the front floorboards. I treat that and it's quiet. Now I can't localize the source of any noise, but it's so much more quiet I stop there.
This is a slow method, but it assures results. 👍
What door seals are you using?
@RAW-CAt Stock, oem lincoln navigator door seals.
What I mean is if you have any rips or tears in your door seals, you want to fix those. Sometimes a door seal can move out of position or the door might not be closing hard enough to close the gap. So get all that fixed before you start tackling the doors and interior panels.
I also wanted to mention that in REW I did an average over four or five seconds, and then I would take a screenshot. This way, if I hit a bump or there was some other unique noise, I could just wait a few seconds for the average to settle down and snap it.
I just post a similar comment. Just wanted to add something here. Check your door latch. You can easily adjust it by loosening it and sliding it towards the interior, then tighten back down. Move it in small increments until its real tight but door still operates correctly.
After years of use, the door settles, and the seals compact often leaving gaps. The above will get it nice and tight and super easy. It's probably the easiest thing Ive done that made the biggest difference after ripping out all of my interior. 😂😂😂
Super cute cat
I love ❤️ your cat very much 🥰
Another often effective way of cutting down road noise is to adjust your doors. There should be an adjustable latch. Just loosen it and slide it towards the interior in small increments until its nice and tight. Also check you door seals.
You're finding out what I have been preaching since Chris opened my eyes to it. The CLD mostly cuts noise by the metal not amplifying it anymore, the metal becomes a microphone/speaker and pushes it through the rest of the automobile. The foam does nothing for sound abatement because it's too light. The real heavy hitter in sound abatement is MLV, or some use lead sheet. The added weight acts like a baseball being thrown at a sheet to the sound, it's extremely effective at stopping it.
I preach it, nobody listens, to do sound deadening inexpensively is to do it properly. First you stiffen the doors with angle aluminum, use a VHB tape to bond it. On either side of that aluminum (just remembered US spelling, deal with it 😀) use about 25 to 50 percent CLD coverage of that flat area (again, not so much blocking sound as much as you're taking away added sound.) No CLD on the floor of the car, that metal isn't vibrating from sound. The closed cell foam is to separate the MLV/lead sheet from being locked in place and not working as well as it can, nothing else. Then you spend your real money on the MLV, cover everything you can with a continuous sheet.
Andy is 100 percent wrong, CLD on the door panels does hardly anything to abate sound, he's trying to use it as an MLV substitute, and it's absolutely terrible at that. Back in the day we added hundreds of pounds of this crap in several layers to the point it started acting like MLV, but you need thousands of dollars and hundreds of pounds of it. CLD is not tape, tape is tape. CLD is not MLV, MLV is MLV. CLD is not a stiffener, stiff things are stiffener adders. CLD is not the magic cure all, it's a specialized tool for a specific job. And foam is to stop crap from banging together that shouldn't be, that is literally foams only function, it does nothing at all for sound abatement. Foam in sound studios has a completely different purpose and 100 percent of that function is to stop echo, it does nothing for the next door room.
Thank you so much for that comment. I'm still a beginner on sound installation, but as a physics lover I always have questioned all those common beliefs about using a lot of CLD on every single metal panel. Is good to see that someone else out there also thinks different.
@cidtelamon sound abatement is a difficult to get your head around because the actual science is basically non existent. You have to piece things together from information here and there, and that is made worse by people (including myself) sticking to old wrong practices because that's the way it's always been done.
One thing I forgot to mention is that because you should be using so little CLD you should make sure you buy the best stuff you have available to you. That saves money in the long run because you can use less of it for the same effect. Here in the States that is Resonix, it's not really even close. I have no idea what it is across the pond in Europe, or elsewhere in the world.
There are so many other places noise reduction is needed, as you pointed out. Also, would be interesting to see any measurements before and after when driving alone on the road, not with a lot of traffic.
I agree, not a fail. Just the first step in reducing road noise.
And noise reduction is the main reason I want to source some double glazed windows for my 2002 BMW 5 series whenever I get around to sound treating it.
yeah Iam also looking for something similar for my Toyota RAV4.
As I even modded the ruber door gaskets, the windows are the main source of noise. But not really any chance to find something in aftermarket :/
@@christianwagner6244 The E39 had double glazed windows as an option, but most didnt buy it for their cars, so its fully possible to find... luckily...
Very very interesting observations regarding road noise.
But while playing music you definitely have less buzzes
To be honest I don't hear anything🤷 I mean no buzzes or rattles at all. The treatment definitely did its job in that department.
@@RAW-CAt
Any particular reason on why haven't you used rain gaud in this build
@@rajasekhar9840 the speakers I am using are super shallow and do 't really protrude behind the speaker ring.
The readings are close but would you be hearing more from the speakers and the actual music than road noise which could be on the same frequency?
I measured my car stock then after full treatment, so I don't have data on what changed what. I measured on the same 55mph road that is particularly noisy, took averages over a 1 mile stretch, both directions and averaged them.
I had noticeable reduction. Unfortunately I saved my REW file wrong so all I have is 1 measurement left. it's really annoying.
As I was installing the treatment the biggest reductions appeared to be when I did the trunk because there is nothing back there from factory, and the rear wheel wells since they are on the sides of the back seats covered with a panel, no treatment.
I also noticed treating the b-pillar since it's right by my ear. and the roof helped with rain noise.
In my car I only used CLD and 3M Thinsulate 400.
LMAO at you're beautiful kitty clawing everything 🤣 gikgerb cats are even funnier than regular cats I swear. ❤️
I think that doing accurate measures in a rolling car in traffic is one of the hardest thing you can do! Maybe better to do it at night on a low traffic road, and the exact same stretch. Or maybe it will say more just doing the measures standing still and having the test sound outside the car to measure how much sound disappears while passing through the doors? Thanks for trying abnd charing any how! ♥️🇸🇪
That's the thing with measuring road noise. So many factors that you have to control to make it even reasonably reproducible, but I believe your summary is right - doors are not the place that has the biggest impact on the overall noise level.
Surely adding sound treatment keeps the sound inside the car instead of resonating out of the car ??
Where should i set my sub and my mid bass driver ? What frequency should my subwoofer stop at?
Dual pain Windows and treating wheel wells I think will do the biggest effect
Small pieces dont do anything but a bunch of them can especially if youre just using them to add weight or wrap small vibrating things with. I use similar foam its pretty nice. I also use a lot of duct insulation foam style and the cotton style for various things. Also I buy a ton of mastic rope has a lot of uses for this sort of thing. Then I go to thrift stores to get suitable mats to use for deadening Idk why but I also find straight ensolite rolls from time to time around here so use that a lot too.
I just ordered a roll of some 3 in 1 product has the butyl, foam and mlv layer. Been wanting to try it out for years so hoping it works alright.
Treat the wheel wells and you will see a lot of difference
That's the plan😉
@RAW-CAt ja i heard you say that in the video 2min after i commented 😅
It's hard, because without a fleet of these cars to test different things, there's only so much data you can test. I think you'll see the biggest difference in road noise with treating the floor and/or wheel wells (not sure if you were doing them as one step or two), but I think once the floor is treated, the doors will then show more. It would be neat, though unrealistic at this point to see the treated floor with untreated doors vs the treated floor and doors together. I don't think this was a fail, I just think it wasn't the greatest starting point.
Thanks for the video. Could you tell any differences your self in any way?
The difference that I noticed is how the door shuts😂 You know that premium thump. The midbass sounds much better, but noise wise I didn't notice anything even if I tried to convince myself otherwise🤷
Hahaha i guess i can count on you not trying to sell me products then 😅 thanks for the honesty :) and thanks for the effort in making these videos, even though i understand very little of the information 😅
The foam is great. But up here in Canada I'm struggling to find it cheap enough. Do u or anyone know where to look? Everything on Amazon and things is ridiculously expensive.
This stuff is great:
a.aliexpress.com/_EJoNEBm
Thanks @@RAW-CAt
The most noticeable was treating the roof (non-panoramic). It was like closing a window that had been slightly ajar
Hope I will have the same results🙃
I got an idea I don't know if you want to try. Can you do measurements at listening position with the door cards off and on? I would like to see what impact the door cards have on the frequency response.
I didn't take any measures, but I had to drive a few hundred km without the driver doorcard on. It wasn't even sound treated and it made quite the difference. The speaker didn't sound as punchy and there was lots more road and wind noise that it was actually a little uncomfortable at highway speeds.
@ I meant not driving. Would like to see measurements with the vehicle stationary
Not the best idea to use foam polyurethane inside the door. It will absorb water, which constantly appears after washing or rain. Plus, its adhesive is not waterproof, so over time, it will peel off, which could lead to a window regulator failure.
the door cards do not get wet, otherwise people would have water leaking inside their cars.
@@Mark_5150no, there are holes in bottom of doors.
MLV > open cell foam
Indeed, however mlv is highly impractical in a car.
@@RAW-CAt How so?
@@JesseJames83 MLV needs "space to breathe", that is MLV has to be decoupled from hard surfaces and it has to have as close to 100% coverage as possible. If you squash it between two layers of CCF, it loses its effectiveness. MLV is good on very flat surfaces, such as sides and floor of vans. But for doors... I don't know.