Over capacity . This is unrealistic , China exports about 20% of their car but Germany exports about 70% of their car. Then who has over capacity!!!!!!!
Overcapacity is a very bad joke created by some country to counter China due to their own undercapacity. China is way leading in EVS with their advanced software, battery technology and platform among others. The best is Chinese EVs costs much less to produce than other makes.
The same people and medias said, In the past, China couldn’t make it. Then poor product quality. Then safety issues Then democracy and national security issue. Now over capacity. .... China are constantly improving their technology and products, but here we just keep drinking coffee, criticizing and complaining.😢
From the outside it looks like Germany just doesnt get it when it comes to EV's. They make slow and bad EV's and when someone moves to Germany and tries to make a good EV they get rejected. (tesla) It seems like dumb nationalism from the outside.
That guy is still asleep. The China speed is not due to cheap labour anymore. China has abundant engineers, foresight, and highly automated auto factories
@@stargazer3828 so tell me why BMW, Benz and VW EVs are all developed and produced by Chinese Companies,Benz by Leapmotor, BMW by GWM,VW by xpeng! and why are they all using China’s EV tech,platform and battery?😂
@@stargazer3828In my experience working in the Germany, China, and the US, factoring in the cost of living, it's better to be an engineer in China than in Germany.
Peter Rawlinson (Lucid Motors CEO and former Tesla chief engineer), May 10, 2024. Chinese automakers are still *"years and years behind" Tesla on EV technology.* *"If you look at the advance in core EV technology, they're still years and years behind Tesla,"* The former Tesla engineer said that Chinese EVs had progressed "immeasurably" in recent years, and were now superior to their western counterparts "in terms of fit and finish quality." However, Rawlinson thought *their engineering was still lacking.* *"In terms of the elegance of their drive train technology, the batteries, the way things are integrated … it's not even close," he said.* *"I was looking at a number of the units on display at the Geneva Motor Show and the engineering was very disappointing."*
France sells its wines to China. France has overcapacity in wines. They make more than they can consume. Cheese too. luxury goods. France makes more luxury goods than their people buy. Overcapacity ⚠ Over capacity is a nonsense term.
People actually want to buy French wine and cheese, very few people want to buy any sort of EV, far less a Chinese one! Nobody makes money selling EVs, they cost the tax payer a fortune, if China wants to burden itself with that albatross, they're welcome to it- let them pay for all the chargers while they're at it.
In 2004, Western media and politicians said: China’s carbon emissions pose a threat to the world. In 2024, Western media and politicians: China’s new energy vehicles (EV) pose a threat to the world.
When I, a native German, think of the chinese car industry, my first association is: cheap. When I think of the german car industry, my first association is: cheat. The chinese EVs may or may not be the same level of engineering, but they meet the emission standards without cheating software. German car industry in a way deserves this for not switching to EV production too, it's just sad it will hurt so many innocent people. Should hold the managers accountable, financially.
Make no mistake, there is nothing cheap with quality Chinese made EVs. The BYD EV drivers in Australia are very happy campers indeed. Germany has no hope whatsoever in catching up with Chinese achievements, innovation and market leadership with EVs. The German car industry is done. 🐼 🇨🇳
Sorry to tell you that Chinese EVs are no longer that "cheap" - especially for its quality. It is actually so good to the extent that on all price ranges, Germany has never ever produced anything on par in terms of overall build quality. It is not like Chinese EVs are leading the game, they are generations ahead. You may also want to check their Euro NCAP results - 5 stars for all cars I've seen, those are tests done in Europe by Europeans under EU standards. Avoid Chinese made ICE cars at all costs, that is for sure, but for EVs, unless Germany has some alien techs developed on the back side of the moon unknown to we human beings, it is better to open you eyes and face the new reality here on earth.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b You seem to only think of the negative connotations when I say "cheap", you think of "cheap" as in "shoddy". but "cheap" also means "inexpensive". As a matter of fact chinese cars / EVs ARE cheap, compared to their german counterparts.
@@techniktrix Good spin there but western narrative typically associated Chinese product "cheap" as junk. That is of course a misconception most part of the last 2000 years of history. Chinese ironwares, ceramics, tea and silk were all sought after products of the elites of Europe and middle east.
Other parts of the world is growing. Accept and live with that.Germany is a really small country compare with US,China, India and Russia. There is nothing special about Germany.
Soon Chinese parents will look at their children at dinner time and say ： "If you don't study hard, you will only be able to drive a Mercedes-Benz and a BMW in the future."
@@_Sinsino_ And that is the best you can do is Wumao. The west have been selling cars in China since 1970s. Now China is only selling a few cars in the west.
As a Chinese, I don't think it is about "overtaking" Germany, Germany as a great nation will always have a very decent share of the global automobile market. The real question here is will Germany be willing to acknowledge the fact that China is now also a fully qualified player ready to take a similar share of the same global market using its highly innovate and Euro NCAP 5 stars top ranking EV cars.
@@thegreatdane3627 China is literally Germany's largest car market even now. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you continue to buy and sell with China, or you do neither.
Chinese EV have a life of 2 years in China. They are over manufactured because the government gives them a 40% return for every EV they make. It means every EV these Chinese companies make, 40% is shouldered by the government. That's how they can sell them so cheap. So they just make & make them because they will always be profitable even if sold cheaply. There are a lot of videos of 1 year to 2 year old EV getting thrown into landfills/disposed off because of inferior quality. Oh yeah, did I mention they have a secret add-on of 'spontaneous combustion'.
Reliance on energy controlled by potential enemies is stupidity. Not only that but gas/oil are finite resources. They will run out one day. Better to be energy independent, which is what China is striving to do right now. Look at Norway, Ethiopia also doing the same, why long term thinking which US, Japan seem to have forgotten and Germany is on the edge. Will they continue developing clean tech or have shareholders slow development like VW to maintain short term profit?
What overcapacity? When western companies make more products to export to China, it was not overcapacity, but when it is reversed, it is overcapacity? So when Airbus make more planes than European demands, and make planes to export, is it overcapacity?
@@thegreatdane3627 IF EU or America sell its high tech weapon to China, the deficits gone! China wants F35, Himas and other anti-air missile badlly. And these are the west good at.
Hey genius, look up the amount of trade imports and exports with China. YES, China has a massive overcapacity, it isn’t a secret or some western conspiracy.
China has huge barriers to entry in the form of government mandated joint ventures. This is effectively a 50% tax on profits, plus they steal the IP. Germany should give them a taste of their own medicine and require BYD to form a JV with VW if they want to sell in Europe.
Germany's industries, including the automotive manufacturing industry, had greatly benefited from cheap Russian gas. They have lost their competitiveness since the Russo-Ukrainian war.
Not only that. Germans basically gifted Russian market to their Chinese competitors. Russian market nowadays is dominated by Lada, Great Wall, Chery, Geely, Changan and FAW.
I mean, probably true that they benefited. But they lost their competitiveness ages ago. They were just coasting on brand-awareness and pretty good quality. But mostly brand-awareness and the status that having an overly expensive angry-looking german car brought.
@@neverknowsbest2879the Russian Kaluga factory which used to assemble German Volkswagen cars will soon start to assemble Chinese cars.. other Russian car factories which were momentarily idle have already restarted their production!!
As an owner of BMW since 2015, I would say my next car will be Chinese EV, overall Germany cars are still good in quality but leak of innovation and behind on degitalization… the preceiption of the guests of DW represent the Western world, afraid of competition yet still looking down Chinese from very high position and refuse they are technologically behind but keep blaming China for subsidies, cheap labour and etc…Kodak, Nokia and BMW 10years later, I’ll not susprise if they don’t change.
I had a 7 series beemer and the electronics were unreliable on an ice car, there's no way I would buy a BMW EV against a Chinese one, all I would be paying for is a name badge and a bit of history.
Other parts of the world is growing. Accept and live with that.Germany is a really small country compare with US,China, India and Russia. There is nothing special about Germany.
Counterpoint to some assertions: 1. China did heavy lifting on EVs for more than a decade. It did not copy Germany. It did not "suddenly" advance during COVID. 2. German manufacturers have enjoyed the same advantages operating in China as local competitors, they did not take Chinese policy seriously and did not use their operations in China to advantage due to their own arrogance, Ditto GM & Ford. 3. China EV makers are highly automated and not dependent on cheap labors. German operations in China play on the same field.. 4. The accusations "China os not playing fair" and has "overcapacity" are groundless and sheet hypocrisy coming from Germans who have and continue a higher ratio of autos than China.
1. China banned foreign battery competitors since 2015 under MIC2025. 2. all foreign EV makers were required to form a joint venture with a local competitor in which they share profit and IP (bar Tesla). 3. all foreign EV makers were required to use locally made battery by local companies, such as BYD/CATL to ensure China's domination in EV supply-chain. 4. EV industry is not labor intensive, but is currently bottlenecked by raw materials/refining/battery which as a result of 1,2,3 now dominated by China.
Ancient China could export world-class silk and porcelain.Modern China products are laughed at as inferior products. Now the super manufacturing power has returned.
Germany to China:" We have to export our cars to China but you do not export you EV cars to Germany". China: ”Why so?" Germany:" Because we are German:.
Germany exports very few cars to China. Most German cars in China are made in China and with 50% of the JVs owned by the Chinese. China is far from a poster boy on free trade.
@@hermesliteratus882 I don't agree. Overcapacity is a good thing only when it's Germany, the US, or maybe Japan when they are not good enough for competition.
@@tooltalk gov't always bailed out big companies, tax breaks, no need to pay back loans.... in exchange for the companies keep on hiring people and the supply chain....
@@fatdoi003 : Sure, bailouts are not "export subsidies." Not all subsidies are same and no gov't hands out subsidies nilly-willy without specific strings attached. Gov't welfare subsides, such as food stamps, is very different from EV subsidies, given to consumer upon EV purchases. China is prohibited from handing out subsidies (in forms of bonus, tax exemption, loans) to companies that meet certain "export quota" set by gov't.
@@ciybersal3499 A Chinese-made DVD player I bought brand new for $15 about 15 years ago in Malaysia and is still working but the Japanese brand I bought for $400 in the US broke down in less than three years. 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Peter Rawlinson (Lucid Motors CEO and former Tesla chief engineer), May 10, 2024. Chinese automakers are still *"years and years behind" Tesla on EV technology.* *"If you look at the advance in core EV technology, they're still years and years behind Tesla,"* The former Tesla engineer said that Chinese EVs had progressed "immeasurably" in recent years, and were now superior to their western counterparts "in terms of fit and finish quality." However, Rawlinson thought *their engineering was still lacking.* *"In terms of the elegance of their drive train technology, the batteries, the way things are integrated … it's not even close," he said.* *"I was looking at a number of the units on display at the Geneva Motor Show and the engineering was very disappointing."*
It's ridiculous. The Chinese are not afraid of competing with the European automobile industry, let alone engaging in a tariff and trade war with the European automobile industry. . It is Europe that relies on the Chinese car market, not the other way around.
What chinese subsidies? Why do you have "incentives"? stop lying. China's cars are not "cheap imports", they are a better product at a competitive price. compete or go bust.
*China's population is significantly larger than Germany's. China has a population of over 1.4 billion people, while Germany's population is around 83 million. China's population is approximately 16.87 times larger than Germany's population. THEREFORE CHINESE EXPORTS SHOULD BE AT LEAST 17 TIMES LARGER THAN GERMANY* 😂😂😂
How long China cars in the market? Why do you think EU crying China EV is overcapacity? Why increase tariffs on Chinese EV if EU is so confidence? The only way to Stop Chinese EV is add more sanctions, threat to National Security, No Human Rights & etc. 🤣🤣🤣
I was in china last week and I must say the air quality is many times better than 10 years ago. Most bikes are Electronic and the EVs are amazing. They are moving so fast by the time Germany catch up, they have probably moved many steps again. If one charge gives u a range of 1000 km, German cars will be history. That, I think will not be very far away.
I've listened to 13 mins, in that time & with respect to reasons why the German car manufacturers are failing is that the last ten years has seen a reduction of quality & unforgivablly reliability.
It’s sad to hear this. As someone who has worked in Asia and now working in EU , it’s a no brainier EU companies will fall behind. Very strict regulations by EU , expensive energy also due to EU environment rules , high employee rights and salary , too many holidays, to many regulations, everything else also expensive also indirectly due to so many rules , while in Asia it’s the opposite
Why? Be energy efficient. Innovation is the key. Innovation can solve many issue. But if the whole system is rigid and against of the new things, then yes, better if you start to blame everything and everybody
@@errorwww The rest of the world does not wait for Germany to maybe become innovative and energy efficient. The competitive edge is lost and the train has left the station.
“All these factors, cheap labour, workers conditions” were here 10/ 20 years ago. When they were selling millions of cars. So the factors the man pointed to are only an excuse to cover up arrogance and incompetence. “Who is more contemptible than he scorns knowledge of himself?”
I’m sorry to say , US and Germany already lost , you don’t need to go very far, just visit any Chinese city. They are far far ahead in so many areas - high speed trains , subways , 6G cashless mobile economy, EVs , electric buses , electric bikes , drones, safety , services , very green , ….. How can you compete ? Game over.
Do you honestly think Germany would've continued buying ruzzian gas even if the pipeline had not been blown up? Maybe a little longer, but not much. The destruction of the pipeline just sped up the inevitable.
@@mutkaluikkunen3926 Oh you mean you are ok and have no courage to ask who n why the pipeline in which german spent billions are destroyed. Comeon man, germany is buying russian gas but through a middle man at higher price. And thats why german companese r leaving germany because they cannot compete in international market.
@@mutkaluikkunen3926 and what has germany to do anything with ukraine? You see the west is not liked by the rest because you attach too much strings to a business. Thats the reason countries are attracted to other financial institutions like brics n sco. World knows the history of west so donot try to put moral tag on anything.
‘If China wants to compete head to head, they should forgo the cheap labor and come to Europe to manufacture at a higher labor cost”- this is the stupidest thing I heard in this episode
I work for a German company in Germany that is over 175 years old one of the biggest Tier 1 supplier to the Automotive OEM. I can from my experience say that yes German companies are sleeping; they are slow to change/Transformation; they can't compete with the efficiency or the lead time at which China delivers the product. Eg parts we produce and supply to the OEM takes over 6 to 9 from prototyping to delivery and China does it between 3 to 4 months.
Yes, this is the relationship between efficiency and time cost. However, most politicians seem to have selective amnesia. If we gain an advantage in technological innovation and production efficiency, production costs will inevitably be much lower. Unfortunately, in recent years, Europeans seem to have stopped thinking and innovating, satisfied with the pollution caused by fuel vehicles. It seems that Europeans cannot see their footprints in new energy technology. As far as I know, China has a company called Ningde Era, which has invested a lot of funds in researching and developing advanced battery technology. They continuously develop generation after generation of new battery technologies, which continuously improves efficiency and reduces costs. However, Europe is still addicted to gasoline cars
@@960john i Wonder if you think the same about swiss chocolate, or Polish furniture? Every country should make everything? In all price ranges? Or maybe we can allow cheaper Chinese products for one type of people and more expensive for the other?
@@michasosnowski5918 Swiss chocolate is not industry, not relevant to my comment. Anyway, industries can be more or less innovative and occupy different places in value chain. That's why we're happy to import agriculture from Brazil or Ukraine, and why EU isn't putting tariffs on Chinese solar panels. That's actually not a high-margin profitable product and has little knock-on effects on innovation, therefore if China is willing to sell it cheaply, why not buying from them? Automotive is a different beast.
Logically speaking, Germany has a clear overcapacity on car production compared to China. A simple arithmatic comparison will prove this. Germany exports more cars than she can consume by a ratio of 1:4 (in other word for every 5 cars she produces, only 1 car is consumed locally), whilst China consumes 5 cars for every 6 cars she produced).
Kodak invented the digital camera. 📷 They eventually killed themselves. They refused to innovate and to change its business to the digital age, in favor of its legacy film🎞 business.
EVs predate the IC engine, EV makers that could not transition to more sophisticated IC technology all went bust over 100 years ago. History is repeating itself. EV makers are the Kodaks here..
I am engineer in profession, visited china and german factories before, in terms of management competency, engineers innovative, workers dicipline, german side is no way come close to China. China no longer cheap labour and low cost comply to environmental and safety regulation for many years. Now they are most stringent requirements and implementation of the world, trust me.
Greed is what has hurt EU, US and Japanese companies. Reliance on old tech. Sold at high prices. Eg VW made more profit in China than any other market but neglected to update to new tech such as gigapresses (IDRA Italian tech) LFP batteries to cut costs. Do not blame worker wages as modern Chinese car factories are highly automated.
All three guests support tariffs. Isn’t the point of this debate to have diverse views ? I doubt that this represents public’s, experts’ or even governments’ diverse views. It is quite funny, actually, that German people and government are against the tariffs but these three German guests on a German public TV are in favor of tariffs ))
Germany cars are famous for being less reliable and expensive to maintain compared to Japan. Thus, it's less attractive in the US market because the cost of repair in the US is so so expensive. I just wondered why this issue is persisted in so many years. Why the parts of Germany cars are more expensive than Japan when there are somethings need to be replaced.
When I was in the US back in the 90s, I was planning to buy a BMW. And my friend said to me "You better pray to God that the car won't break down on you!".😂
I mean, Germany has always been very slow to innovate. Always too late to the party, regardless of how easy it would be to take the lead. For example, Telekom made a chat client. Only they spent far too long talking about what it should be, after already starting a bit late. But they could have had a Telegram on their hands. But they released a mess of a program, too late. As for E-cars; the big car producers were still releasing new ICE cars, ignoring E-cars for far too long. You would not need Chinese subsidies (German car makers get plenty of tax breaks and such), or Chinese style innovation. You'd merely need to put the Dutch in charge of the German car industry. :p 20 years ago, I got my Fibre internet connection in the Netherlands. 7 years ago I moved to Germany. In about one year (they have been saying for 3 years), there will finally be a Fibre connection here. Meanwhile, I am moving to an other city, where there will be a Fibre connection ... in about a year. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
@@alwaysloveorange No, I don't think you understand the reason for why Europe does what it does. There's plenty of innovation in the EU (just, Germany is a bit slow). As for talent and brainiacs; there's plenty of those too. The EU has previously simply decided to outsource things to places that make them more cheaply, without having to do anything to make them. So instead they can do things that earn more money. I.E. you could either make ThingA, and earn 10 EUR per ThingA, or you could make ThingB, that earns you 20 per ThingB. And then at the end of the day, buy a ThingA, and have half your money left in your pocket. Which is of course, as you so rightly say, a terrible idea in the long term. :) Note: I changed the way I said things, so that they hopefully are more accurately translated by youtube.
Gotta watch 12:12. VW knew in 2017 that EV was coming. But maximizing profits from internal combustion engines was more important despite having their own EV plans; probably for fear of cannibalising their own ICE sales but this creates a potential Kodak (or Nokia or BlackBerry) moment.
German car companies were late to get onto battery development. And have had multiple problems producing a reliable battery. Number of problems. They do have joint venture building battery. So the future is uncertain for German car industry globally. The diesel gate also plays a role. It’s not forgotten.
China is the most competitive market in the world for both EVs and ICEs, which is the most dynamic force behind driving technology advance and innovation! Unwilling and afraid to compete in the market, by tariffs, will keep EU auto makers staying behind in the coming years.
@@LeicaM11 It is pretty simple really. Where are the cheapest EVs in the world? China. Where are the most variety of EVs in the world (large cars, small cars, sports cars, vans, trucks, wagons, and so on)? China. Where are the most fuel efficient cars in the world? China (See the latest BYD 5th gen DM-i hybrids). Where are the most advanced digital cars in the world in terms of software, infotainment, voice recognition, smartphone integration, self driving, etc? Again China. Why is all of this? Because the competition in the Chinese auto market is on a whole other level compared to any other market in the world. If you don't CONSTANTLY try to iterate your product and put out the cheapest, most efficient, most connected car with the most features for money, some other car company will and you will lose sales immediately. It is sink or swim in China, and many many firms will be going bust in the next few years, with huge financial losses in their wake. But the survivors? Every major car company in the world is afraid of the handful/dozen Chinese carmakers which come out of the Chinese meat grinder market in one piece, because if those lean and mean companies can survive and thrive in China, they are going to decimate the foreign competitors who have not had to compete as hard for as long in order to stay in business.
why buy German expensive cars when you can buy a cheap Chinese car ... Cheap and expensive cars are same equipment that will take you to your destination people are being practical
China can send its cheap evs to Jamaica.Combustable engine cars are too expensive here. Germany is really just bitter due to the fact that Chinese manufacturers as well as the government had hindsight and Germany didnt. China's workforce aims for comfortable wages where on the othr hand Germans care for wealth. The whole point is that the West thought China was gonna be the worlds sweat shop forever, instead, China recognized it could offer way more to the world at a cheaper price.
Germany cars go up in prices every year - BMW, Audi, Mercedes costing more and more to buy, service and maintain despite getting old and stagnant, unaffordable for most working families. Chinese EV and car get cheaper and cheaper while quality, features and technology improving by leaps and bound. I had opportunity to see some Chinese EVs and absolutely amazed at the features, design, looks and feels and quality of the cars.
On a per car basis, the Chinese subsidies are trivial. BYD, the top Chinese EV car maker had subsidies of $3.7B USD over 4 years and they sell 3M cars a year. So the subsidies amount to about $300 a car. Just a rounding error when talking about car prices. If the EU thinks subsidies are an issue, there's nothing stopping them from subsidizing their cars just like they already heavily subsidize their agricultural industry. In fact, I'm pretty sure existing EU auto subsidies are already well over $300 USD per car.
Well obviously that is the truth, but admitting to it would also mean admitting to the fact that on an equal playing field, i.e. China subsidizes their automakers and Europe also subsidizes their automakers and then compete, the Chinese EVs would demolish the European EVs. So increasing European subsidies would do nothing, and the only solution left is call what China doing being "overcapacity" and "unfair" and put up tariff walls. It can work in the short term, but the long term result of hiding behind tariff walls is that your domestic carmakers become even further behind, get squeezed out of the massive (and lucrative) Chinese market, and squeezed out of most international car markets over the next decade or two, and can only continue to exist as ever shrinking regional automakers forever needing the protection of tariffs and subsidies at home in order to keep surviving. So either way, no good long term solution. However tariffs will kick the can down the road maybe a good 10 years, which is good enough for the EU politicians currently in power.
What caused them to lose their "cheap energy" was Merkel's stupidity in continuing to cosy up to Russia post-2014 (it was clear before 2014, but after 2014 there was no excuse whatsoever) and thus they were exposed when Putin illegally invaded Ukraine. But German industry is mostly suffering because they made the wrong choices about what cars to build.
As Melinda Crane says,,, The German auto industry is travelling in the wrong direction ..... but at the same time it is speeding toward the cliff's edge.... with no brakes!!
@@speculawyer EV sales peaked 2 yrs ago and has been sliding due to high prices and lack of public charging infrastructure. 80% of EV owners charge at home. I myself considered buying an EV but didn't for the same reason. Hybrids and Plugin-Hybrids are in demand.
Tariffs will only hurt European customers and the environment. This is not China's fault. This is lazy Europe's fault. Executives that did not see this coming, should not have their jobs.
What that man said at 14:05 is correct! US and German automakers will never be able to compete with China because of the cheaper labor rates, lower working conditions, abundance of labor, access to raw materials, cheaper electricity due to coal burning electric plants etc. To really compete the Chinese companies need to build their cars in the countries where they want to sell them. This is what the US is requiring of Chinese companies, but many mistake it as a ban on Chinese vehicles.
China doesn't win just because of cheap labor. It's also because it's invested heavily in its human and physical capital. Compare China with India, which has now 1/5th the GDP per capita so cheaper labor and a similar (and growing) coal% of energy. China has 3 universities in the QS top 20 and 10 in the top 100. Indian schools don't make an appearance until 150. China has also invested much more heavily in environmental policies, including building more renewable energy capacity each year than the US, EU, India, and Australia combined. Or building the largest coal plant in the world (and never running it close to full capacity) just to fill in the gaps of its grid as it transitions.Or dropping heavy subsidies and incentives for EV adoption. Over half of all new cars sold in China are now EVs. In the US, that's around 6.5%
Auto industry is front runner for German industry, but Germany industry is not the front runner of auto industry. Chinese just make pretty good cars now.
Chinese people have not done things completely. Imagine the EU imposing tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles worth $3 billion. What if China retaliates by imposing equivalent tariffs on European cars worth $38 billion?
Other parts of the world is growing. Accept and live with that.Germany is a really small country compare with US,China, India and Russia. There is nothing special about Germany.
@@mutkaluikkunen3926 Because they have meritocracy. And west has democracy and they are different system of government. Can americans choose other president than biden n trump? If u boast to have democracy n freedom then why ur gov is applying harsher rules on people than that of chinese or russian?
@@DineshTwanabasu China has autocracy and people have absolutely no say over the matters that affect their lives. In the West you at least have a choice. I'm not in the US nor am I a citizen. Also, I don't know what you mean by "why ur gov is applying harsher rules on people than that of chinese or russian?". Can you elaborate?
All the automakers from around the world including Germany are in china. They can hire as many cheap workers and engineers like the Chinese companies, they get the same amount of subsidies like the chinese in the ev segment and here you are crying nonsense. The simple thing is chinese companies have improved a lot.
Gosh then China EV business must be doomed since top China EV producers are partnered with US technology giants NVIDIA and Qualcomm. Americans have teams in China helping Chinese EV makers.
The fact is Communist China does Capitalism better than so-called capitalist Germany or America. Communism also provides a better environment to develop technology and register more Patents than Liberal democratic countries.
Germany: Heated seats? Add $2000. You want a HUD? Add another $5000. Oh, now you want a sunroof? $7000 China: You want car? Two trims. Big range, small range. Both the same.
let looks from the bright side: "Rheinmetall received the largest order in its history in the amount of €8.5 billion for 155 mm shells - the company's press service "
At the end of the day the loser is the consumer who will have to pay more to buy a car because of all these import taxes imposed in Chinese cars. Competition would help bring the prices down. The end of the free market.
German car manufacturers need to gradually turn themselves into distributors of Chinese car products. The theory of competitive advantage (the theory you have preached us about for quite some time) says Germany has to focus on other products it can produce most efficiently such as cereals, potatoes, and pork.
"China is not playing fair" is a ridiculous statement because non-Chinese OEM's minimized and discounted the new EV technology. They made Compliance cars for this sake of receiving EV credits. Tesla and Chinese OEM's were the only ones investing and improving the new technology. Now the west is whining that China is not playing fair and they cannot compete. The same thing happened back in 1971 when the Japanese OEMs invaded the US auto market. this is a disruption that cannot be stopped, and those who slept at the wheel will now pay the price for it.
It is exactly the tale about the race between the rabbit and the tortoise. Rabbit is the West and the tortoise can be China. The difference is the overslept rabbit does not try to catch up but keep blaming the tortoise not waking him/her up.
I have an idea. I hope you like it: why doesn't Europe buy expensive stuff from the US and the US buys expensive stuff from Europe? It sounds like a good deal.. Doesn't it?
Why do you avoid talking about the technology and quality improvement China has made in its cars? The fast learning and innovation in technology is at the core of Chinese competitiveness.
Back in the day with internal combustion engines, the tech differences were huge. But now with electric motors, that gap is tiny, and labor costs are still massively different. Didn't you see this coming??
@@downtomars6268 What do you mean what? Everything. All western companies had to partner up with a local chinese company and that partner company stole all the manufacture tech and other trade secrets which were passed on to chinese car manufacturers so that they could get a running start. How else you think chinese cars seems to have taken such leaps in design and safety in just a few years?? Come on.
Germany rose on its exportation market. Why other countries of the other side of the planet could not make the same ? Germany car industry lost the car market because only oriented on luxury berlines and big cars !
"Is China overtaking car country Germany?" Yes. Saved you 26 minutes of your busy day. No need to thank me.
and y'all are just real estate agents
Gracias! 😂
thanks❤
thank you.
Hahaha 😂!!!! Thanks a lot 👍
I jumped to the comments before 5 minutes into this ✔️
Over capacity . This is unrealistic , China exports about 20% of their car but Germany exports about 70% of their car. Then who has over capacity!!!!!!!
Wtf. Germany isn't that big market so it makes sense doesn't it...
Overcapacity is a very bad joke created by some country to counter China due to their own undercapacity. China is way leading in EVS with their advanced software, battery technology and platform among others. The best is Chinese EVs costs much less to produce than other makes.
I own a Chinese car and love it's technology here in Pakistan, they are better value and more modern than Japanese equivalent
The same stuff over and over again😂 left behind? Yes,ages ago!
doesn't really matter what you call it. China is russia's "unlimited partner". That is the problem right there....
The same people and medias said,
In the past, China couldn’t make it.
Then poor product quality.
Then safety issues
Then democracy and national security issue.
Now over capacity.
....
China are constantly improving their technology and products, but here we just keep drinking coffee, criticizing and complaining.😢
True
True!
From the outside it looks like Germany just doesnt get it when it comes to EV's. They make slow and bad EV's and when someone moves to Germany and tries to make a good EV they get rejected. (tesla)
It seems like dumb nationalism from the outside.
I am a Chinese and automobile worker, you could not imagin how hard we are working.
Haters will always hate. They will always find new reasons to hate.
That guy is still asleep. The China speed is not due to cheap labour anymore. China has abundant engineers, foresight, and highly automated auto factories
Sorry but Chinese engineers do not make as much as German and US engineers. DYOR!
@@stargazer3828 so tell me why BMW, Benz and VW EVs are all developed and produced by Chinese Companies,Benz by Leapmotor, BMW by GWM,VW by xpeng! and why are they all using China’s EV tech,platform and battery?😂
@@suportbghelp4938 haha, western media’s done great job, brainwashing.
@@stargazer3828In my experience working in the Germany, China, and the US, factoring in the cost of living, it's better to be an engineer in China than in Germany.
Peter Rawlinson (Lucid Motors CEO and former Tesla chief engineer), May 10, 2024.
Chinese automakers are still *"years and years behind" Tesla on EV technology.*
*"If you look at the advance in core EV technology, they're still years and years behind Tesla,"*
The former Tesla engineer said that Chinese EVs had progressed "immeasurably" in recent years, and were now superior to their western counterparts "in terms of fit and finish quality." However, Rawlinson thought *their engineering was still lacking.*
*"In terms of the elegance of their drive train technology, the batteries, the way things are integrated … it's not even close," he said.*
*"I was looking at a number of the units on display at the Geneva Motor Show and the engineering was very disappointing."*
France sells its wines to China. France has overcapacity in wines. They make more than they can consume.
Cheese too. luxury goods.
France makes more luxury goods than their people buy. Overcapacity ⚠
Over capacity is a nonsense term.
I don't think wine is as important than the car industry !
@@davidlefranc6240 what about airbus?
@@nealinux What about Boeing !
France is not subsidizing its wines. It has zero to do with overcapacity.
People actually want to buy French wine and cheese, very few people want to buy any sort of EV, far less a Chinese one! Nobody makes money selling EVs, they cost the tax payer a fortune, if China wants to burden itself with that albatross, they're welcome to it- let them pay for all the chargers while they're at it.
"China can not do whatever it wants"? Is that to say that it can only do what the US allows it to do? What arrogance!
oh yeah, you made the point
In 2004, Western media and politicians said: China’s carbon emissions pose a threat to the world.
In 2024, Western media and politicians: China’s new energy vehicles (EV) pose a threat to the world.
❤ absolutely CORRECT. Supreme ARROGANCE.
That is to say China shouldn't be allowed to do whatever it wants I assume
Ha ha bang on man😊
It is Chinese fault - they move too fast. LOL
Hello little pink. Your government is subsidising your car industry from start to finish.
😂 Exactly. You are CORRECT.
im german 50 & living at berlin. im so shocked at these chinese cars - they are very good!
OH WHY? WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?
CCP bot
When I, a native German, think of the chinese car industry, my first association is: cheap. When I think of the german car industry, my first association is: cheat. The chinese EVs may or may not be the same level of engineering, but they meet the emission standards without cheating software.
German car industry in a way deserves this for not switching to EV production too, it's just sad it will hurt so many innocent people. Should hold the managers accountable, financially.
Make no mistake, there is nothing cheap with quality Chinese made EVs. The BYD EV drivers in Australia are very happy campers indeed.
Germany has no hope whatsoever in catching up with Chinese achievements, innovation and market leadership with EVs. The German car industry is done.
🐼 🇨🇳
Sorry to tell you that Chinese EVs are no longer that "cheap" - especially for its quality. It is actually so good to the extent that on all price ranges, Germany has never ever produced anything on par in terms of overall build quality. It is not like Chinese EVs are leading the game, they are generations ahead. You may also want to check their Euro NCAP results - 5 stars for all cars I've seen, those are tests done in Europe by Europeans under EU standards. Avoid Chinese made ICE cars at all costs, that is for sure, but for EVs, unless Germany has some alien techs developed on the back side of the moon unknown to we human beings, it is better to open you eyes and face the new reality here on earth.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b You seem to only think of the negative connotations when I say "cheap", you think of "cheap" as in "shoddy". but "cheap" also means "inexpensive". As a matter of fact chinese cars / EVs ARE cheap, compared to their german counterparts.
中国有句网络热门语录：再不努力就只能买得起BBA了。现在BBA在中国都是白菜价，毫无技术竞争力。
@@techniktrix Good spin there but western narrative typically associated Chinese product "cheap" as junk. That is of course a misconception most part of the last 2000 years of history. Chinese ironwares, ceramics, tea and silk were all sought after products of the elites of Europe and middle east.
Germany has only itself to blame
Ever heard of Nord Stream?
Their own gas pipelines were bombed and they didn’t dare to say a word. Who can Germany blame?
China got cheap cheap russian energy
@@ShutterKnack Ever heard of trusting dictators regime for the greed !
Other parts of the world is growing. Accept and live with that.Germany is a really small country compare with US,China, India and Russia. There is nothing special about Germany.
First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win
Then we celebrate with you 🎉😊😅
❤Precisely well said and well OBSERVED.
Good sight. ❤
From what the speakers said, Germany is still complacent, blame China and self examine. Germany cars are doomed
German cars belong in the museum, where there are plenty of Japanese cars already.
They cars are too expensive
Soon Chinese parents will look at their children at dinner time and say ：
"If you don't study hard, you will only be able to drive a Mercedes-Benz and a BMW in the future."
w like wumao.
Highly unrealistic scenario considering the fertility rate in China. The older generation don't have children to give advice.
@@_Sinsino_ And that is the best you can do is Wumao.
The west have been selling cars in China since 1970s.
Now China is only selling a few cars in the west.
@@_Sinsino_ spot the Falun Gong cultist!
wumao copying & pasting the same comment over and over again.
As a Chinese, I don't think it is about "overtaking" Germany, Germany as a great nation will always have a very decent share of the global automobile market. The real question here is will Germany be willing to acknowledge the fact that China is now also a fully qualified player ready to take a similar share of the same global market using its highly innovate and Euro NCAP 5 stars top ranking EV cars.
Of course not. Imperialists can't accept a reality that doesn't place them on top.
it is more about not becoming more dependent on russia's "unlimited partner". China can not be considered a reliable supplier for Europe.
@@thegreatdane3627 China is literally Germany's largest car market even now. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you continue to buy and sell with China, or you do neither.
Why is China still allowed to pollute the air and other things that "developed" nations cannot?
@@thegreatdane3627 For a country that depends on Ukraine for its protection from Russia, I totally understand why you think that.
Simple logic, Russian cheap energy was an engine for German economy and industries. Germany can’t be competitive anymore.
natural gas prices in Europe are cheaper than before the war
Chinese EV have a life of 2 years in China. They are over manufactured because the government gives them a 40% return for every EV they make. It means every EV these Chinese companies make, 40% is shouldered by the government. That's how they can sell them so cheap. So they just make & make them because they will always be profitable even if sold cheaply.
There are a lot of videos of 1 year to 2 year old EV getting thrown into landfills/disposed off because of inferior quality. Oh yeah, did I mention they have a secret add-on of 'spontaneous combustion'.
@@thegreatdane3627 Are you American? What kind of Europe are you living in? You must not pay bills that is why you are saying this.
@@CarlosMendes-cn2hc I have a gas furnace. I can see what the price was in January 2022, and the price is lower today...
Reliance on energy controlled by potential enemies is stupidity. Not only that but gas/oil are finite resources. They will run out one day. Better to be energy independent, which is what China is striving to do right now. Look at Norway, Ethiopia also doing the same, why long term thinking which US, Japan seem to have forgotten and Germany is on the edge. Will they continue developing clean tech or have shareholders slow development like VW to maintain short term profit?
What overcapacity? When western companies make more products to export to China, it was not overcapacity, but when it is reversed, it is overcapacity? So when Airbus make more planes than European demands, and make planes to export, is it overcapacity?
China exports 3x more to the EU than they import. And the trade deficit is only growing...
@@thegreatdane3627 IF EU or America sell its high tech weapon to China, the deficits gone! China wants F35, Himas and other anti-air missile badlly. And these are the west good at.
Hey genius, look up the amount of trade imports and exports with China. YES, China has a massive overcapacity, it isn’t a secret or some western conspiracy.
Boeing airbus and Chinese plane company. Hahaha
China has huge barriers to entry in the form of government mandated joint ventures. This is effectively a 50% tax on profits, plus they steal the IP. Germany should give them a taste of their own medicine and require BYD to form a JV with VW if they want to sell in Europe.
Germany's industries, including the automotive manufacturing industry, had greatly benefited from cheap Russian gas. They have lost their competitiveness since the Russo-Ukrainian war.
Not only that.
Germans basically gifted Russian market to their Chinese competitors.
Russian market nowadays is dominated by Lada, Great Wall, Chery, Geely, Changan and FAW.
@@neverknowsbest2879 True
I mean, probably true that they benefited. But they lost their competitiveness ages ago. They were just coasting on brand-awareness and pretty good quality. But mostly brand-awareness and the status that having an overly expensive angry-looking german car brought.
With much more expensive energy , Germany already lost the competition on the starting point.
@@neverknowsbest2879the Russian Kaluga factory which used to assemble German Volkswagen cars will soon start to assemble Chinese cars.. other Russian car factories which were momentarily idle have already restarted their production!!
As an owner of BMW since 2015, I would say my next car will be Chinese EV, overall Germany cars are still good in quality but leak of innovation and behind on degitalization… the preceiption of the guests of DW represent the Western world, afraid of competition yet still looking down Chinese from very high position and refuse they are technologically behind but keep blaming China for subsidies, cheap labour and etc…Kodak, Nokia and BMW 10years later, I’ll not susprise if they don’t change.
I had a 7 series beemer and the electronics were unreliable on an ice car, there's no way I would buy a BMW EV against a Chinese one, all I would be paying for is a name badge and a bit of history.
Uncle China will love to spy on you.
@@SacreDro get over yourself... you think you're so important to be spied on?
@@fatdoi003 Doesn't matter, they all spy and gather dada for it to be sold for profit.
get a Tesla and support the free world!
Germany would suffer when EU put restriction over china EV car import.
they never learn the lesson.
German cars was polluting too much
20 years of dieselgate ruined German car industry
Yes, electricity and battery productions are a blessing for the environment...
@@user-Markk81 Later much more eco friendly !
Other parts of the world is growing. Accept and live with that.Germany is a really small country compare with US,China, India and Russia. There is nothing special about Germany.
@@Littlepunk8964 VW should gone bankrupt years ago.
Counterpoint to some assertions:
1. China did heavy lifting on EVs for more than a decade. It did not copy Germany. It did not "suddenly" advance during COVID.
2. German manufacturers have enjoyed the same advantages operating in China as local competitors, they did not take Chinese policy seriously and did not use their operations in China to advantage due to their own arrogance, Ditto GM & Ford.
3. China EV makers are highly automated and not dependent on cheap labors. German operations in China play on the same field..
4. The accusations "China os not playing fair" and has "overcapacity" are groundless and sheet hypocrisy coming from Germans who have and continue a higher ratio of autos than China.
1. China banned foreign battery competitors since 2015 under MIC2025.
2. all foreign EV makers were required to form a joint venture with a local competitor in which they share profit and IP (bar Tesla).
3. all foreign EV makers were required to use locally made battery by local companies, such as BYD/CATL to ensure China's domination in EV supply-chain.
4. EV industry is not labor intensive, but is currently bottlenecked by raw materials/refining/battery which as a result of 1,2,3 now dominated by China.
@@tooltalk Smart. You cant trade in a country without the local economy benefitting.....
Ancient China could export world-class silk and porcelain.Modern China products are laughed at as inferior products. Now the super manufacturing power has returned.
Germany to China:" We have to export our cars to China but you do not export you EV cars to Germany". China: ”Why so?" Germany:" Because we are German:.
Germany exports very few cars to China. Most German cars in China are made in China and with 50% of the JVs owned by the Chinese. China is far from a poster boy on free trade.
Does DW imply that Germany overcapacity in car-making till now？
No worries, overcapacity might be a good thing as long as it's not Chinese overcapacity.
@@hermesliteratus882 I don't agree. Overcapacity is a good thing only when it's Germany, the US, or maybe Japan when they are not good enough for competition.
Are you saying that the German gov't subsidized their car overcapacity/export?
@@tooltalk gov't always bailed out big companies, tax breaks, no need to pay back loans.... in exchange for the companies keep on hiring people and the supply chain....
@@fatdoi003 : Sure, bailouts are not "export subsidies." Not all subsidies are same and no gov't hands out subsidies nilly-willy without specific strings attached. Gov't welfare subsides, such as food stamps, is very different from EV subsidies, given to consumer upon EV purchases. China is prohibited from handing out subsidies (in forms of bonus, tax exemption, loans) to companies that meet certain "export quota" set by gov't.
I told them the Chinese were good but those Westerners were laughing at the Chinese.😂😂😂😂😂
Chinese are superior I own Chinese car I love it
@@ciybersal3499 A Chinese-made DVD player I bought brand new for $15 about 15 years ago in Malaysia and is still working but the Japanese brand I bought for $400 in the US broke down in less than three years. 🤔🤔🤔🤔
They used to laugh at the Japanese and Koreans
Peter Rawlinson (Lucid Motors CEO and former Tesla chief engineer), May 10, 2024.
Chinese automakers are still *"years and years behind" Tesla on EV technology.*
*"If you look at the advance in core EV technology, they're still years and years behind Tesla,"*
The former Tesla engineer said that Chinese EVs had progressed "immeasurably" in recent years, and were now superior to their western counterparts "in terms of fit and finish quality." However, Rawlinson thought *their engineering was still lacking.*
*"In terms of the elegance of their drive train technology, the batteries, the way things are integrated … it's not even close," he said.*
*"I was looking at a number of the units on display at the Geneva Motor Show and the engineering was very disappointing."*
@@ciybersal3499 enjoy your combustible BYD 😂
Shocking! China saw the future and invested in it, while Europe and Japan doubled down on the past.
Very well said, bravo.
Agree
Don't forget U.S., 80 thou. Playtoy trucks is all they sell anymore.
Like doubling down on gasoline cars to sustain oil industry
It's ridiculous. The Chinese are not afraid of competing with the European automobile industry, let alone engaging in a tariff and trade war with the European automobile industry. .
It is Europe that relies on the Chinese car market, not the other way around.
What chinese subsidies? Why do you have "incentives"? stop lying. China's cars are not "cheap imports", they are a better product at a competitive price. compete or go bust.
China progress is threatening, the western civilization. And china did not allow western companies to gain a fair share on their lucrative market.
How?
*China's population is significantly larger than Germany's. China has a population of over 1.4 billion people, while Germany's population is around 83 million. China's population is approximately 16.87 times larger than Germany's population. THEREFORE CHINESE EXPORTS SHOULD BE AT LEAST 17 TIMES LARGER THAN GERMANY*
😂😂😂
How long China cars in the market? Why do you think EU crying China EV is overcapacity?
Why increase tariffs on Chinese EV if EU is so confidence?
The only way to Stop Chinese EV is add more sanctions, threat to National Security, No Human Rights & etc. 🤣🤣🤣
Logic is flawed. There is No correlation in population and Export.
🤣🤣🤣 *Really?*
Most of China's 1.4B people are still subsistence farming, not manufacturing.
@viktorsjefimovs6480 *If what you said is true, USA and EU doesn't need crying overcapacity, adding more sanctions on China. Right?* 🤣
Putting a tarrif on EV is like putting a tarrif on digital cameras to protect film cameras, or tarrif on smartphones to protect feature phones
I was in china last week and I must say the air quality is many times better than 10 years ago. Most bikes are Electronic and the EVs are amazing. They are moving so fast by the time Germany catch up, they have probably moved many steps again. If one charge gives u a range of 1000 km, German cars will be history. That, I think will not be very far away.
I've listened to 13 mins, in that time & with respect to reasons why the German car manufacturers are failing is that the last ten years has seen a reduction of quality & unforgivablly reliability.
Tesla had lots of troubles building their factory in Germany. They built their factory in Shanghai in 10 months.
The Germans around Berlin were and are very annoyed by those Green and other crazy activists, Such a shame.
lots of reports and studies need to be done on the site particularly environmental impact
Flexibility is not a German quality. They love still to handle currency notes. They still love to send fax.
Even here in South Africa we no longer use FAX
Hehe, where are you employed? At a German government? 😅
Germans have become complacent
Nord Stream happened, courtesy of the US.
@@Memovox Lol wut?
@@zenster1097 Yes, our dear American friends deindustrialized Germany.
@@Memovoxthey're not your friends they're your masters basically
@@ritu8985 Not one on one. Being an American tourist here in Europe might cause problems.
German car manufacturer are focusing on short term profits. Poor management! The consequences will be huge.
"Over capacity" is used when their products are much better, and are desired by consumers, yet you can't compete.
It’s sad to hear this. As someone who has worked in Asia and now working in EU , it’s a no brainier EU companies will fall behind. Very strict regulations by EU , expensive energy also due to EU environment rules , high employee rights and salary , too many holidays, to many regulations, everything else also expensive also indirectly due to so many rules , while in Asia it’s the opposite
"Chinese e-cars are smaller lighter and cheaper."
Finally man, we don't need huge, heavy cars in cities...
tell this to the greens, annalena baerbock you know. I will bet you she will say if you turn 360 degree you will have different view.
Try to convince the american society of that LOL,
@@MaxHohenstaufen Americans own lots of things beyond what is absolutely necessary, because it's not a communist country.
Who is deciding that?
With much more expensive energy , Germany already lost the competition on the starting point.
+++++++
If only there was a cheap option through a pipeline...
Why? Be energy efficient. Innovation is the key. Innovation can solve many issue. But if the whole system is rigid and against of the new things, then yes, better if you start to blame everything and everybody
@@errorwww The rest of the world does not wait for Germany to maybe become innovative and energy efficient. The competitive edge is lost and the train has left the station.
@@errorwww green going to make sure the energy will be expensive😅
their leader work for foreign
“All these factors, cheap labour, workers conditions” were here 10/ 20 years ago. When they were selling millions of cars. So the factors the man pointed to are only an excuse to cover up arrogance and incompetence.
“Who is more contemptible than he scorns knowledge of himself?”
Uhhhh... poor worker conditions in Germany and poor worker conditions in China are totally different.
I’m sorry to say , US and Germany already lost , you don’t need to go very far, just visit any Chinese city. They are far far ahead in so many areas - high speed trains , subways , 6G cashless mobile economy, EVs , electric buses , electric bikes , drones, safety , services , very green , ….. How can you compete ? Game over.
When u have no courage to ask who blew the pipeline supplying all the cheap energy then you already lost the competition and respect in the world.
Do you honestly think Germany would've continued buying ruzzian gas even if the pipeline had not been blown up? Maybe a little longer, but not much. The destruction of the pipeline just sped up the inevitable.
@@mutkaluikkunen3926 Oh you mean you are ok and have no courage to ask who n why the pipeline in which german spent billions are destroyed.
Comeon man, germany is buying russian gas but through a middle man at higher price. And thats why german companese r leaving germany because they cannot compete in international market.
@@mutkaluikkunen3926 and what has germany to do anything with ukraine? You see the west is not liked by the rest because you attach too much strings to a business. Thats the reason countries are attracted to other financial institutions like brics n sco. World knows the history of west so donot try to put moral tag on anything.
‘If China wants to compete head to head, they should forgo the cheap labor and come to Europe to manufacture at a higher labor cost”- this is the stupidest thing I heard in this episode
Then, it’s not Chinese cars. 😂
Germany's automotive industry only has one problem: spare parts availability at reasonable and affordable prices. 🙏🙏
No, its fixed costs for labour, social costs and energy are far too high compared with China and some other European countries.
@@joesoy9185 Western labour is very expensive unfortunately.
German Politicians and the EU!
Buying a Japanese car makes more sense than a German one. Even in America.
They did it on purpose! That is how German car makers rip off customers for many decades!
Bye bye Germany enjoy the slide down behind the tariffs
They never touch the real issue. The nord stream explosion. No cheap energy, no competition
I work for a German company in Germany that is over 175 years old one of the biggest Tier 1 supplier to the Automotive OEM. I can from my experience say that yes German companies are sleeping; they are slow to change/Transformation; they can't compete with the efficiency or the lead time at which China delivers the product. Eg parts we produce and supply to the OEM takes over 6 to 9 from prototyping to delivery and China does it between 3 to 4 months.
Yes, this is the relationship between efficiency and time cost. However, most politicians seem to have selective amnesia. If we gain an advantage in technological innovation and production efficiency, production costs will inevitably be much lower. Unfortunately, in recent years, Europeans seem to have stopped thinking and innovating, satisfied with the pollution caused by fuel vehicles. It seems that Europeans cannot see their footprints in new energy technology. As far as I know, China has a company called Ningde Era, which has invested a lot of funds in researching and developing advanced battery technology. They continuously develop generation after generation of new battery technologies, which continuously improves efficiency and reduces costs. However, Europe is still addicted to gasoline cars
I think it's good. Competition makes cars cheaper and German manufactors need to understand that. At the moment electric car's price is to high.
Consumer should count the most. If China is willing to subsidize us having cars, then let it be that.
When companies shut production down, you lose jobs and know-how. Every country needs a manufacturing base (you can lose agriculture, not industry).
@@960john i Wonder if you think the same about swiss chocolate, or Polish furniture? Every country should make everything? In all price ranges? Or maybe we can allow cheaper Chinese products for one type of people and more expensive for the other?
That's pretty short sighted thinking.
@@michasosnowski5918 Swiss chocolate is not industry, not relevant to my comment. Anyway, industries can be more or less innovative and occupy different places in value chain. That's why we're happy to import agriculture from Brazil or Ukraine, and why EU isn't putting tariffs on Chinese solar panels. That's actually not a high-margin profitable product and has little knock-on effects on innovation, therefore if China is willing to sell it cheaply, why not buying from them? Automotive is a different beast.
@@960johnWhy do you always think that most people will buy Chinese cars? Instead of as another option
Logically speaking, Germany has a clear overcapacity on car production compared to China. A simple arithmatic comparison will prove this. Germany exports more cars than she can consume by a ratio of 1:4 (in other word for every 5 cars she produces, only 1 car is consumed locally), whilst China consumes 5 cars for every 6 cars she produced).
You did not get the idea: Overcapacity is not capacity. You exchanged the meaning of both terms. 😅
Kodak invented the digital camera. 📷 They eventually killed themselves.
They refused to innovate and to change its business to the digital age, in favor of its legacy film🎞 business.
EVs predate the IC engine, EV makers that could not transition to more sophisticated IC technology all went bust over 100 years ago. History is repeating itself. EV makers are the Kodaks here..
I am engineer in profession, visited china and german factories before, in terms of management competency, engineers innovative, workers dicipline, german side is no way come close to China.
China no longer cheap labour and low cost comply to environmental and safety regulation for many years. Now they are most stringent requirements and implementation of the world, trust me.
Evergrande
Greed is what has hurt EU, US and Japanese companies. Reliance on old tech. Sold at high prices. Eg VW made more profit in China than any other market but neglected to update to new tech such as gigapresses (IDRA Italian tech) LFP batteries to cut costs. Do not blame worker wages as modern Chinese car factories are highly automated.
All three guests support tariffs. Isn’t the point of this debate to have diverse views ? I doubt that this represents public’s, experts’ or even governments’ diverse views. It is quite funny, actually, that German people and government are against the tariffs but these three German guests on a German public TV are in favor of tariffs ))
Germany cars are famous for being less reliable and expensive to maintain compared to Japan. Thus, it's less attractive in the US market because the cost of repair in the US is so so expensive. I just wondered why this issue is persisted in so many years. Why the parts of Germany cars are more expensive than Japan when there are somethings need to be replaced.
When I was in the US back in the 90s, I was planning to buy a BMW. And my friend said to me "You better pray to God that the car won't break down on you!".😂
Did you ever visit a Japanese car brand‘s workshop? I don’t think so. You would be shocked.
I mean, Germany has always been very slow to innovate.
Always too late to the party, regardless of how easy it would be to take the lead.
For example, Telekom made a chat client. Only they spent far too long talking about what it should be, after already starting a bit late. But they could have had a Telegram on their hands.
But they released a mess of a program, too late.
As for E-cars; the big car producers were still releasing new ICE cars, ignoring E-cars for far too long.
You would not need Chinese subsidies (German car makers get plenty of tax breaks and such), or Chinese style innovation.
You'd merely need to put the Dutch in charge of the German car industry. :p
20 years ago, I got my Fibre internet connection in the Netherlands.
7 years ago I moved to Germany. In about one year (they have been saying for 3 years), there will finally be a Fibre connection here.
Meanwhile, I am moving to an other city, where there will be a Fibre connection ... in about a year.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.
并不是德国人创新很慢，日本人也没做到，而是中国人很强。（Musk也很强，但是没有上海工厂，Tesla也许就已经死了）。最根本的原因在于欧洲没有统一的大市场，不能支撑其自己的互联网企业和手机制造业，（完全放弃了欧洲的数字主权），所以在电动化和智能化上完全没有足够的人才储备和技术储备。
@@alwaysloveorange No, I don't think you understand the reason for why Europe does what it does.
There's plenty of innovation in the EU (just, Germany is a bit slow).
As for talent and brainiacs; there's plenty of those too.
The EU has previously simply decided to outsource things to places that make them more cheaply, without having to do anything to make them.
So instead they can do things that earn more money.
I.E. you could either make ThingA, and earn 10 EUR per ThingA, or you could make ThingB, that earns you 20 per ThingB. And then at the end of the day, buy a ThingA, and have half your money left in your pocket.
Which is of course, as you so rightly say, a terrible idea in the long term. :)
Note: I changed the way I said things, so that they hopefully are more accurately translated by youtube.
ideas come from USA, china makes them cheap, Germany perfects them (when they're obsolete)
@@TeslaRoadtrips 你对中国一无所知。DJI不需要德国，电动车也一样。
Gotta watch 12:12. VW knew in 2017 that EV was coming. But maximizing profits from internal combustion engines was more important despite having their own EV plans; probably for fear of cannibalising their own ICE sales but this creates a potential Kodak (or Nokia or BlackBerry) moment.
German car companies were late to get onto battery development. And have had multiple problems producing a reliable battery. Number of problems. They do have joint venture building battery. So the future is uncertain for German car industry globally. The diesel gate also plays a role. It’s not forgotten.
Germany should decouple from US if Germany wants to remains relevant.
It's by far the biggest market for the company I work for.
China is the most competitive market in the world for both EVs and ICEs, which is the most dynamic force behind driving technology advance and innovation! Unwilling and afraid to compete in the market, by tariffs, will keep EU auto makers staying behind in the coming years.
Aboslutely untrue. China has banned foreign battery competition since 2016 to protect BYD/CATL and other inferior competitors.
Why? Please explain that thesis for us. I am really interested
@@LeicaM11 It is pretty simple really. Where are the cheapest EVs in the world? China. Where are the most variety of EVs in the world (large cars, small cars, sports cars, vans, trucks, wagons, and so on)? China. Where are the most fuel efficient cars in the world? China (See the latest BYD 5th gen DM-i hybrids). Where are the most advanced digital cars in the world in terms of software, infotainment, voice recognition, smartphone integration, self driving, etc? Again China. Why is all of this? Because the competition in the Chinese auto market is on a whole other level compared to any other market in the world. If you don't CONSTANTLY try to iterate your product and put out the cheapest, most efficient, most connected car with the most features for money, some other car company will and you will lose sales immediately. It is sink or swim in China, and many many firms will be going bust in the next few years, with huge financial losses in their wake. But the survivors? Every major car company in the world is afraid of the handful/dozen Chinese carmakers which come out of the Chinese meat grinder market in one piece, because if those lean and mean companies can survive and thrive in China, they are going to decimate the foreign competitors who have not had to compete as hard for as long in order to stay in business.
why buy German expensive cars when you can buy a cheap Chinese car ...
Cheap and expensive cars are same equipment that will take you to your destination
people are being practical
Simply because when you buy a product you are buying and empowering a value set.
@@everythingsconnected Is that including their emissions cheating software or not? 😂
@@adamanthony7465 rules based order???
Kodak!
Some Chinese brands have no German equivalent BYD U8, BYD u9
China can send its cheap evs to Jamaica.Combustable engine cars are too expensive here. Germany is really just bitter due to the fact that Chinese manufacturers as well as the government had hindsight and Germany didnt. China's workforce aims for comfortable wages where on the othr hand Germans care for wealth. The whole point is that the West thought China was gonna be the worlds sweat shop forever, instead, China recognized it could offer way more to the world at a cheaper price.
Consider that Germany has lost Russian energy and China has the absolute competitive advantage in terms of battery raw materials for EVs.
Germany cars go up in prices every year - BMW, Audi, Mercedes costing more and more to buy, service and maintain despite getting old and stagnant, unaffordable for most working families. Chinese EV and car get cheaper and cheaper while quality, features and technology improving by leaps and bound. I had opportunity to see some Chinese EVs and absolutely amazed at the features, design, looks and feels and quality of the cars.
On a per car basis, the Chinese subsidies are trivial. BYD, the top Chinese EV car maker had subsidies of $3.7B USD over 4 years and they sell 3M cars a year. So the subsidies amount to about $300 a car. Just a rounding error when talking about car prices.
If the EU thinks subsidies are an issue, there's nothing stopping them from subsidizing their cars just like they already heavily subsidize their agricultural industry. In fact, I'm pretty sure existing EU auto subsidies are already well over $300 USD per car.
Well obviously that is the truth, but admitting to it would also mean admitting to the fact that on an equal playing field, i.e. China subsidizes their automakers and Europe also subsidizes their automakers and then compete, the Chinese EVs would demolish the European EVs. So increasing European subsidies would do nothing, and the only solution left is call what China doing being "overcapacity" and "unfair" and put up tariff walls.
It can work in the short term, but the long term result of hiding behind tariff walls is that your domestic carmakers become even further behind, get squeezed out of the massive (and lucrative) Chinese market, and squeezed out of most international car markets over the next decade or two, and can only continue to exist as ever shrinking regional automakers forever needing the protection of tariffs and subsidies at home in order to keep surviving.
So either way, no good long term solution. However tariffs will kick the can down the road maybe a good 10 years, which is good enough for the EU politicians currently in power.
The xiaomi car literally looks better than any electric merc or bmer right now! That’s insane. Germany needs to do better
Germany sliding down? Germany lost its vast cheap energy source.
but no one dares talk about what caused it.
lol. 😂😂
说这个就阻碍了民主自由
What caused them to lose their "cheap energy" was Merkel's stupidity in continuing to cosy up to Russia post-2014 (it was clear before 2014, but after 2014 there was no excuse whatsoever) and thus they were exposed when Putin illegally invaded Ukraine. But German industry is mostly suffering because they made the wrong choices about what cars to build.
Not want, but who: Putin. Everybody knows.
As Melinda Crane says,,, The German auto industry is travelling in the wrong direction ..... but at the same time it is speeding toward the cliff's edge.... with no brakes!!
In the US, Toyota/Lexus has out sold MB, BMW, Audi. VW is not even competitive anymore.
Toyota/Lexus totally missed the boat on EVs and will begin to suffer as Americans finally realize that EVs are great.
@@speculawyer EV sales peaked 2 yrs ago and has been sliding due to high prices and lack of public charging infrastructure. 80% of EV owners charge at home. I myself considered buying an EV but didn't for the same reason. Hybrids and Plugin-Hybrids are in demand.
Tariffs will only hurt European customers and the environment. This is not China's fault. This is lazy Europe's fault. Executives that did not see this coming, should not have their jobs.
The EU imports far more than China imports from EU -- doesn't take a genius to figure out who stands to lose more.
What that man said at 14:05 is correct! US and German automakers will never be able to compete with China because of the cheaper labor rates, lower working conditions, abundance of labor, access to raw materials, cheaper electricity due to coal burning electric plants etc. To really compete the Chinese companies need to build their cars in the countries where they want to sell them. This is what the US is requiring of Chinese companies, but many mistake it as a ban on Chinese vehicles.
China doesn't win just because of cheap labor. It's also because it's invested heavily in its human and physical capital.
Compare China with India, which has now 1/5th the GDP per capita so cheaper labor and a similar (and growing) coal% of energy. China has 3 universities in the QS top 20 and 10 in the top 100. Indian schools don't make an appearance until 150.
China has also invested much more heavily in environmental policies, including building more renewable energy capacity each year than the US, EU, India, and Australia combined. Or building the largest coal plant in the world (and never running it close to full capacity) just to fill in the gaps of its grid as it transitions.Or dropping heavy subsidies and incentives for EV adoption.
Over half of all new cars sold in China are now EVs. In the US, that's around 6.5%
It is NOT just that. Their cars are good and their R&D drove down battery costs....with good designs and automation, not merely cheap labor.
Auto industry is front runner for German industry, but Germany industry is not the front runner of auto industry. Chinese just make pretty good cars now.
Chinese people have not done things completely. Imagine the EU imposing tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles worth $3 billion. What if China retaliates by imposing equivalent tariffs on European cars worth $38 billion?
Chinese people’s party did gift to much money for so many carmakers, that is the point. This market is not fair anymore. The same with solar panels.
Why cant EU let the people decide what car they want to ride? Freedom huh gone for toilet
Freedom only if they are ahead.
So why can't the Chinese choose what kind of a leadership they want? Oh yea..
Other parts of the world is growing. Accept and live with that.Germany is a really small country compare with US,China, India and Russia. There is nothing special about Germany.
@@mutkaluikkunen3926 Because they have meritocracy. And west has democracy and they are different system of government.
Can americans choose other president than biden n trump?
If u boast to have democracy n freedom then why ur gov is applying harsher rules on people than that of chinese or russian?
@@DineshTwanabasu China has autocracy and people have absolutely no say over the matters that affect their lives. In the West you at least have a choice.
I'm not in the US nor am I a citizen. Also, I don't know what you mean by "why ur gov is applying harsher rules on people than that of chinese or russian?". Can you elaborate?
Result of going along with US and EU, instead of your own national interest.
All the automakers from around the world including Germany are in china. They can hire as many cheap workers and engineers like the Chinese companies, they get the same amount of subsidies like the chinese in the ev segment and here you are crying nonsense. The simple thing is chinese companies have improved a lot.
Germany car is slowly decreasing...no shock at all...trend is forecasting
US and EU tariff indicate the chines manufacturing success .
Germany's cooperation with the US has brought Germany to this end.
Gosh then China EV business must be doomed since top China EV producers are partnered with US technology giants NVIDIA and Qualcomm. Americans have teams in China helping Chinese EV makers.
@@GMK189-f2k Elon Musk is 'captive'. He can't move out!
@@shaikhwadud1270 why would he want to move out? He is one of best sellers in China. He has plenty of facilities outside of China .
fatal
EU and US : I can sell my brand to you, but you cant sell your brand here.
The fact is Communist China does Capitalism better than so-called capitalist Germany or America. Communism also provides a better environment to develop technology and register more Patents than Liberal democratic countries.
it's called mercantilism, not capitalism.
in EV industry, Germany never got any position before China since the beginning, how can you can say that China is is overtaking Germany.
Germany: Heated seats? Add $2000. You want a HUD? Add another $5000. Oh, now you want a sunroof? $7000
China: You want car? Two trims. Big range, small range. Both the same.
100% rightly said.
No wonder the German CEOs are paying themselves huge dividends. Badge snobbery costs money.
let looks from the bright side: "Rheinmetall received the largest order in its history in the amount of €8.5 billion for 155 mm shells - the company's press service "
🇩🇪 : We got outcompeted due to labour cost.
🇨🇳 : You got outcompeted technologically.
At the end of the day the loser is the consumer who will have to pay more to buy a car because of all these import taxes imposed in Chinese cars. Competition would help bring the prices down. The end of the free market.
German car manufacturers need to gradually turn themselves into distributors of Chinese car products. The theory of competitive advantage (the theory you have preached us about for quite some time) says Germany has to focus on other products it can produce most efficiently such as cereals, potatoes, and pork.
But only three Chinese automakers in China are profitable. Last time I checked selling a product at a loss is not sustainable in the long term!
"China is not playing fair" is a ridiculous statement because non-Chinese OEM's minimized and discounted the new EV technology. They made Compliance cars for this sake of receiving EV credits. Tesla and Chinese OEM's were the only ones investing and improving the new technology. Now the west is whining that China is not playing fair and they cannot compete. The same thing happened back in 1971 when the Japanese OEMs invaded the US auto market. this is a disruption that cannot be stopped, and those who slept at the wheel will now pay the price for it.
It's the same news for the last 5 years, when is german car industry finally going to take initiative???
The Chinese work hard and smart. That's how a country moves forward.
It is exactly the tale about the race between the rabbit and the tortoise. Rabbit is the West and the tortoise can be China. The difference is the overslept rabbit does not try to catch up but keep blaming the tortoise not waking him/her up.
I have an idea. I hope you like it: why doesn't Europe buy expensive stuff from the US and the US buys expensive stuff from Europe?
It sounds like a good deal.. Doesn't it?
Why do you avoid talking about the technology and quality improvement China has made in its cars? The fast learning and innovation in technology is at the core of Chinese competitiveness.
Back in the day with internal combustion engines, the tech differences were huge. But now with electric motors, that gap is tiny, and labor costs are still massively different. Didn't you see this coming??
C H I N A =
Fast
Efficient
Expanding
Long term thinking
the ccp's motto of "steal, subsidize, ban foreign competition" repeat, rinse!
ipo infringing
@@mutkaluikkunen3926 what auto ipo was infringed?
Technology theft
@@downtomars6268 What do you mean what? Everything. All western companies had to partner up with a local chinese company and that partner company stole all the manufacture tech and other trade secrets which were passed on to chinese car manufacturers so that they could get a running start.
How else you think chinese cars seems to have taken such leaps in design and safety in just a few years?? Come on.
Volkswagen moved to EVs because they were caught cheating on diesel emissions. This conversation omitted that important point.
Germany rose on its exportation market. Why other countries of the other side of the planet could not make the same ?
Germany car industry lost the car market because only oriented on luxury berlines and big cars !
BMW tried to screw people with monthly fees for seat heater. Trust is lost.