My hike was a 3 day 2 night 16.5 miles in. Everything felt good with the pack I used. It was heading back down I realized my pack was not working. It's a framless pack . I was 15 pounds base weight. I'm looking for a right pack now. I'm so confused on what I need. I like many others am so tired of spending money on gear that doesn't hold up. I'm on my research game again. But what do I need? How do I know if I can't use and use it?
I will always use a hip-belt-frame backpack. The whole form of walking is based on your hips. Transfer the weight to your hips and not your back, but keep the load light and close to your center of gravity.
Side-note: ALWAYS get the front hip-belt pocckets for tear. It creates accessibility for your most important items, transfers weight to your hips, and balances it to your center of gravity.
For me, frameless (or even poor framed) = sore shoulders every time. And my base weight is below 10 lbs. (I recently did a 2-day trip that required starting with 4.5L = 10 lbs of water and my starting pack weight with food+water was 22 lbs). I think it’s just my anatomy - even carrying 700mL of water in a shoulder pocket causes me soreness! So of course HYOH.
I prefer a framed pack as i like the rigidity. Frameless backpacks collapse on themselves. These modern framed packs are super lightweight anyway. I used to get a new pack ever year or so in search of the perfect one. Its been several years and i love my Gregory Zulu 35. Having pockets on the hip belt are a must for me.
At 63 yo, I grew up with framed, aluminum packs. I still have and use my old Jansport packs. Here in NW MT there is never a trip where you don't need warm gear. Maybe someday I will get a modern pack. Maybe. Been on three two-nighters this summer, pack weight ready to throw on my back has been just under 30 lbs. Good video, thank you.
Keith, I'm in agreement. I'm old school too. I've still not tried anything that hauls water and heavier loads better than the Jansport D3 ,D5. My favorite hikes in my state have no water available so the water weight is serious. Although the frame weight is 2#s rather than 2 oz, it makes heavy loads very comfortable on the trails. I'm making my customized pack to use on a D3 frame as we speak. That said, I would also like to try this company's cf stays with my personal design. I think it depends on personal needs. The ergo aluminum external frame can take any load you can tie on. Some like them for firewood, propane tanks, resupply to remote areas, hunting and just plain backpacking trips. It's good to hear about your classic vintage Jansport experience.
👍 Good advice. I just bought a late 1960s Kelty external frame backpack. At 73 I don’t care if I go 1 mile or 10 miles as long as the scenery is beautiful. Living in the Southwest carrying sufficient water is crucial. Not wanting lug 50 lbs around I look at trimming weight in other areas. I still have one of the original Outdoor Vitals backpacks and enjoy using it.
LOL, I'd been backpacking for ten years when I was 17... The question I have is "why" go ultralight/frameless in the first place? Because you are not strong enough to carry gear? Because you want to go fast, missing what there is to see, smell, and hear? Just, well, because you saw it on Instagram? There was a time when I was blessed with the legs and the opportunity to ride my bike up Independence Pass several times a summer. Zoom, zoom, zoom would go the cars as I savored the climb. The drivers would hop out at the top, snap a pic for social media, and jump back in the care to zoom, zoom, zoom to the next stop. Slow down and enjoy the views, carry the gear you need, weight on the hips, cut all the weight you can, but don't obsess about it because water, food, and warmth are more important than grams. Regardless of the weight or the pack, 5 miles at a slow hike/bike is better than 5 miles at a run/drive any day.
My base weight (with a Shadowlight 60) is 22.5 lbs and my 3-day trail weight is 36.3 lbs carrying 2.7 liters of water. I’ve pushed that pack to a 48 lb trail weight carrying a 9-day load and it handled it quite well (in fact, for one long water carry @ +3 liters over normal that trip I tipped it over 50 lbs).
From an 'old schooler'.......I was glad to hear you differentiate between an "external frame" and "frame pack". Otherwise, I had a question as to what you were referring. Everyone has their own ideas about what one should bring into the wild with them. That being said, here in the southwest, one would be hard pressed to go wrong with at least a good 40 liter lightweight frame pack. Thanks for your thoughts..............Be well.
I'm almost 50 y.o. and I must say that I am trying to combine both worlds: going as light as possible make me able to keep up with most of the younger guys around. Having a frame helps me feeling less the weight and the back pain, thus sleep better and be more energized in the morning. As a side note: I took the shadowlight in the Italian alps last weekend and it performed greatly (also, I was the coolest kid on the block) ! ps. my base weight (with a shadowlight 48) is 8,10 pounds: this way I can add luxuries like a chair or non dehidrated food and be way more comfy in the gr8 outdoor
I'm in the 'crossover zone' of your formula - either framed or non-framed should be suitable in theory. Baseweight between 6kg and 7kg (depending on season), food 750g per day (2-4 day hikes), fuel 50g per day, water not carried much. My pack is a 50L framed pack weighing 1.1kg, and I have been exploring options to replace it with something around the 45L and 750g mark, but not at the expense of comfort or practicality. I've tried a frameless (GG G4-20) but returned it as soon as I tried it on - just not comfortable - of course it might have just been the wrong design or size for me. The problem with these products is that, because they're not made by the larger manufacturers (like Osprey for example), you can't go into a shop and 'try before you buy' - at least not here in the UK, so it's an expensive and lengthy mail order process and some makers don't even accept returns.
Does a framed pack typically take away from space inside the main section of the pack due to it's curve away from the back? I just bought a Decathlon framed pack and it seems I have nowhere near as much internal space as my frameless pack despite the same litre size. Is this expected?
Most internal frames are thin enough and have a mild enough curve that it doesn't take away... The exception to that would be something like the Osprey trampoline style...
i have a back injury and carrying a hunting backpack has become very uncomfortable. I'm trying to reduce weight but most importantly take the load off my back. Im open to suggestions what my be the best for my situation? im open to all suggestions even those beefy fanny packs with shoulder straps too.
I have had 5 back surgeries including 2 fusions. This summer I hiked with my Bergans powerframe 130 l backpack loaded to 75 pounds. It almost killed my legs but the carry system took away nearly all the weight from my lower back. I would strongly recommend a framed pack with a good hip belt
@tonywinslof9806 thanks for the response! I just got a cheaper internal frame pack from cabelas with a good waist belt. Still seems to be too much... maybe I'm wearing it wrong or maybe I just need to spend the cash. All I need is a hunting pack that carries a max of 20 lbs. But 15 is more ideal. I'm strongly considering a lumbar pack... any experience with those?
@@Willowbrook_homestead having become more hydro dynamicly improved (seal shaped) with age, I find it difficult to get the fanny packs and lumbar packs to ride where I want them. It feels like they are gliding down I have to constantly hike them up. Maybe the pack you have is too short. You should be able to have almost all the weight on your hip bones and the shoulder straps should more or less only balance the pack and keep it close to your back. If you have a sternum strap, try to loosen the shoulder straps, almost to the point where the pack feels wobbly only resting on your hips, and pull your pack forward with the sternum strap. It is also important to have the hip belt low enough so it rests on the hip bone, not riding at the waist stressing the softer lower back. Hope this helps, it has enabled me to continue to hike and fish north of the arctic circle and only my muscles and unnecessary weight are limiting my range. Never give up
Good advice for people. I tried wwhat Tayson said and with 3 days of food and 2L of water my pack weight is 19.3, in a frameless pack. I wonder, does the hip belt do anything with a frameless pack?
Purchased a frameless pack a few months ago for 30 bucks,. Pack weight with food and water for 4 Days was 9.89 pounds. My lowest pack weight ever. A typical pack weight is 15 pounds. Early spring and fall weather the weight approaches 20 pounds.
I have a very odd question. The younger gentleman at 3:35, are his initials MP. if so can you somehow pass a message one from his frisbee trade school buddy for me. Thanks. CB
I can't wait to see a shadow light in the ultra or dynamo material. I love the pocket layout which I know defeats the purpose of having that single dyema pouch to put your stuff in. But dynamia Middle holding 45 l with four external mesh pockets and a big front mesh. One can dream
Framed backpacks typically have better ability to stay comfortable with bigger or heavier loads - especially when you might have some long hauls on a big thru-hike.
I think it depends on the person. Regardless of the weight, a framed backpack puts the weight on my hips makes my lower back and hips hurt. The frameless fits close to the body and seems to distribute the weight better and I have no hip or back pain.
What do you prefer and why?
Let us know!
Packs discussed:
(Framed) CS40 Ultra Backpack: bit.ly/3sFcvIu
(Frameless) Skyline 30 Fastpack: bit.ly/45YDg93
My hike was a 3 day 2 night 16.5 miles in. Everything felt good with the pack I used. It was heading back down I realized my pack was not working. It's a framless pack . I was 15 pounds base weight. I'm looking for a right pack now. I'm so confused on what I need. I like many others am so tired of spending money on gear that doesn't hold up. I'm on my research game again. But what do I need? How do I know if I can't use and use it?
Great video, I have a frame pack, I carry about 25 pounds and soon to be 70 planning on the AT as a turn 70
I will always use a hip-belt-frame backpack.
The whole form of walking is based on your hips. Transfer the weight to your hips and not your back, but keep the load light and close to your center of gravity.
Side-note: ALWAYS get the front hip-belt pocckets for tear. It creates accessibility for your most important items, transfers weight to your hips, and balances it to your center of gravity.
For me, frameless (or even poor framed) = sore shoulders every time. And my base weight is below 10 lbs. (I recently did a 2-day trip that required starting with 4.5L = 10 lbs of water and my starting pack weight with food+water was 22 lbs).
I think it’s just my anatomy - even carrying 700mL of water in a shoulder pocket causes me soreness! So of course HYOH.
I prefer a framed pack as i like the rigidity. Frameless backpacks collapse on themselves. These modern framed packs are super lightweight anyway. I used to get a new pack ever year or so in search of the perfect one. Its been several years and i love my Gregory Zulu 35. Having pockets on the hip belt are a must for me.
At 63 yo, I grew up with framed, aluminum packs. I still have and use my old Jansport packs. Here in NW MT there is never a trip where you don't need warm gear. Maybe someday I will get a modern pack. Maybe. Been on three two-nighters this summer, pack weight ready to throw on my back has been just under 30 lbs. Good video, thank you.
Keith, I'm in agreement. I'm old school too. I've still not tried anything that hauls water and heavier loads better than the Jansport D3 ,D5. My favorite hikes in my state have no water available so the water weight is serious. Although the frame weight is 2#s rather than 2 oz, it makes heavy loads very comfortable on the trails. I'm making my customized pack to use on a D3 frame as we speak. That said, I would also like to try this company's cf stays with my personal design. I think it depends on personal needs. The ergo aluminum external frame can take any load you can tie on. Some like them for firewood, propane tanks, resupply to remote areas, hunting and just plain backpacking trips. It's good to hear about your classic vintage Jansport experience.
👍 Good advice. I just bought a late 1960s Kelty external frame backpack. At 73 I don’t care if I go 1 mile or 10 miles as long as the scenery is beautiful. Living in the Southwest carrying sufficient water is crucial. Not wanting lug 50 lbs around I look at trimming weight in other areas. I still have one of the original Outdoor Vitals backpacks and enjoy using it.
Good stuff!
LOL, I'd been backpacking for ten years when I was 17... The question I have is "why" go ultralight/frameless in the first place? Because you are not strong enough to carry gear? Because you want to go fast, missing what there is to see, smell, and hear? Just, well, because you saw it on Instagram? There was a time when I was blessed with the legs and the opportunity to ride my bike up Independence Pass several times a summer. Zoom, zoom, zoom would go the cars as I savored the climb. The drivers would hop out at the top, snap a pic for social media, and jump back in the care to zoom, zoom, zoom to the next stop. Slow down and enjoy the views, carry the gear you need, weight on the hips, cut all the weight you can, but don't obsess about it because water, food, and warmth are more important than grams. Regardless of the weight or the pack, 5 miles at a slow hike/bike is better than 5 miles at a run/drive any day.
Different strokes for different folks.
My base weight (with a Shadowlight 60) is 22.5 lbs and my 3-day trail weight is 36.3 lbs carrying 2.7 liters of water. I’ve pushed that pack to a 48 lb trail weight carrying a 9-day load and it handled it quite well (in fact, for one long water carry @ +3 liters over normal that trip I tipped it over 50 lbs).
From an 'old schooler'.......I was glad to hear you differentiate between an "external frame" and "frame pack". Otherwise, I had a question as to what you were referring. Everyone has their own ideas about what one should bring into the wild with them. That being said, here in the southwest, one would be hard pressed to go wrong with at least a good 40 liter lightweight frame pack. Thanks for your thoughts..............Be well.
I'm almost 50 y.o. and I must say that I am trying to combine both worlds: going as light as possible make me able to keep up with most of the younger guys around. Having a frame helps me feeling less the weight and the back pain, thus sleep better and be more energized in the morning.
As a side note: I took the shadowlight in the Italian alps last weekend and it performed greatly (also, I was the coolest kid on the block) !
ps. my base weight (with a shadowlight 48) is 8,10 pounds: this way I can add luxuries like a chair or non dehidrated food and be way more comfy in the gr8 outdoor
Na. Do things the Army way. 100 lbs minimum.
I'm in the 'crossover zone' of your formula - either framed or non-framed should be suitable in theory. Baseweight between 6kg and 7kg (depending on season), food 750g per day (2-4 day hikes), fuel 50g per day, water not carried much. My pack is a 50L framed pack weighing 1.1kg, and I have been exploring options to replace it with something around the 45L and 750g mark, but not at the expense of comfort or practicality. I've tried a frameless (GG G4-20) but returned it as soon as I tried it on - just not comfortable - of course it might have just been the wrong design or size for me. The problem with these products is that, because they're not made by the larger manufacturers (like Osprey for example), you can't go into a shop and 'try before you buy' - at least not here in the UK, so it's an expensive and lengthy mail order process and some makers don't even accept returns.
I stuffed 8 days worth of food and with everything I'm 45 pounds
@3:33 2 ounces = 56.7 grams.
Does a framed pack typically take away from space inside the main section of the pack due to it's curve away from the back? I just bought a Decathlon framed pack and it seems I have nowhere near as much internal space as my frameless pack despite the same litre size. Is this expected?
Most internal frames are thin enough and have a mild enough curve that it doesn't take away... The exception to that would be something like the Osprey trampoline style...
I’ve got both so I’m prepared for any scenario!
Have you guys done a hike with Steven yet? If not, you should!
Good chance for them to test an OV ultralight chair 😆
Thank you for this video. So am I understanding correctly moving the weight higher on the torso puts more weight on the hips?
i have a back injury and carrying a hunting backpack has become very uncomfortable. I'm trying to reduce weight but most importantly take the load off my back. Im open to suggestions what my be the best for my situation? im open to all suggestions even those beefy fanny packs with shoulder straps too.
I have had 5 back surgeries including 2 fusions. This summer I hiked with my Bergans powerframe 130 l backpack loaded to 75 pounds. It almost killed my legs but the carry system took away nearly all the weight from my lower back. I would strongly recommend a framed pack with a good hip belt
@tonywinslof9806 thanks for the response! I just got a cheaper internal frame pack from cabelas with a good waist belt. Still seems to be too much... maybe I'm wearing it wrong or maybe I just need to spend the cash. All I need is a hunting pack that carries a max of 20 lbs. But 15 is more ideal. I'm strongly considering a lumbar pack... any experience with those?
@@Willowbrook_homestead having become more hydro dynamicly improved (seal shaped) with age, I find it difficult to get the fanny packs and lumbar packs to ride where I want them. It feels like they are gliding down I have to constantly hike them up. Maybe the pack you have is too short. You should be able to have almost all the weight on your hip bones and the shoulder straps should more or less only balance the pack and keep it close to your back. If you have a sternum strap, try to loosen the shoulder straps, almost to the point where the pack feels wobbly only resting on your hips, and pull your pack forward with the sternum strap. It is also important to have the hip belt low enough so it rests on the hip bone, not riding at the waist stressing the softer lower back. Hope this helps, it has enabled me to continue to hike and fish north of the arctic circle and only my muscles and unnecessary weight are limiting my range. Never give up
Good advice for people. I tried wwhat Tayson said and with 3 days of food and 2L of water my pack weight is 19.3, in a frameless pack. I wonder, does the hip belt do anything with a frameless pack?
Purchased a frameless pack a few months ago for 30 bucks,. Pack weight with food and water for 4
Days was 9.89 pounds. My lowest pack weight ever. A typical pack weight is 15 pounds. Early spring and fall weather the weight approaches 20 pounds.
Santa Claus is coming to Town 🙂 Happy Holidays ,Santa had no frame
Are you same guy from "BIGGEST Hydration Mistakes Backpackers Make!"?
Lookin' good, Bro :D
I have a very odd question. The younger gentleman at 3:35, are his initials MP. if so can you somehow pass a message one from his frisbee trade school buddy for me. Thanks. CB
I can't wait to see a shadow light in the ultra or dynamo material. I love the pocket layout which I know defeats the purpose of having that single dyema pouch to put your stuff in. But dynamia Middle holding 45 l with four external mesh pockets and a big front mesh. One can dream
Maybe someday!
I’m planning to do the pct but can’t decide if internal frame might serve me better then a frameless, I plan to do the whole trail hopefully
Framed backpacks typically have better ability to stay comfortable with bigger or heavier loads - especially when you might have some long hauls on a big thru-hike.
Really useful insights. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
I think it depends on the person. Regardless of the weight, a framed backpack puts the weight on my hips makes my lower back and hips hurt. The frameless fits close to the body and seems to distribute the weight better and I have no hip or back pain.