I'm a Mikami guy myself. Ironically for all of Kamiya's arcade influence, I think Mikami's design captures that tight, elegant game design that the best arcade games are known for. And he has a really strong, layered style of mechanical design. I think it's easy to copy a Mikami game with some minor changes (tho everyone's failing to copy even the surface level elements of God Hand), but it's nearly impossible to actually make something that feels like one from scratch. Bayo being impossible to learn from reminds me of SOR2 Mania, it's a really interesting game but gamedevs trying to study it is asking for trouble cause so many of the interesting dynamics emerge from the insane chaos how the game/mode came about. Here's a question : what would you even try to copy exactly? Also for some reason both struggle to make scoring systems, god only knows why. But hey I guess Fujiwara does too
this is perfectly put, i sorta articulated the holistic nature and obvious satisfying decision points in mikami's games but didn't make the connection that that's actually way more arcade-like than the more segmented design of kamiya's games
@@ziadbruh Yup! What I find really interesting about his games is the learning curve, there's always this big moment where you connect a few dots and not only improve your gameplay but radically transform it. Usually you notice how a small set of mechanics works, and from that point onward your whole gameplan starts orbiting those mechanics/interactions. In RE4 it's using guns for hitstun rather than kills which reintroduces beat em up elements. In God Hand it's the juggle/launcher moves and counter-hits that vastly open up the crowd control and make the game waaay more interesting. In Vanquish it's boost dodging (on hard) letting you play in a much more freeform manner (and weapon properties/cigs on god hard). In The Evil Within its the bottle stuns, traps and of course the match sticks. There's always this big "click" moment that makes the games do a 180, or at least a 90. Also unlike other games where this "click" moment would lead to a dominant mechanic, his stuff feeds back into the fundies in a really smooth, organic way. As a result the games feel MORE freeform and interesting as you get better, instead of feeling more limited. Up to a point, anyway... It's not like UT's in Ninja Gaiden, that's for sure
i should’ve fleshed the point out more but i guess what i’m saying is that a game like RE4 has much fewer moving parts compared to bayonetta, and i think that’s evidenced by RE5 copy-pasting RE4’s foundation without any super egregious losses or 4make following its blueprint in a totally different engine and still turning out good. whereas the list of things they fucked up in bayo 2 and 3 is endless LOL (and there’s much more staff movement on those games than just kamiya)
Mikami I kneel 🧎
I'm a Mikami guy myself. Ironically for all of Kamiya's arcade influence, I think Mikami's design captures that tight, elegant game design that the best arcade games are known for. And he has a really strong, layered style of mechanical design. I think it's easy to copy a Mikami game with some minor changes (tho everyone's failing to copy even the surface level elements of God Hand), but it's nearly impossible to actually make something that feels like one from scratch.
Bayo being impossible to learn from reminds me of SOR2 Mania, it's a really interesting game but gamedevs trying to study it is asking for trouble cause so many of the interesting dynamics emerge from the insane chaos how the game/mode came about. Here's a question : what would you even try to copy exactly?
Also for some reason both struggle to make scoring systems, god only knows why. But hey I guess Fujiwara does too
this is perfectly put, i sorta articulated the holistic nature and obvious satisfying decision points in mikami's games but didn't make the connection that that's actually way more arcade-like than the more segmented design of kamiya's games
@@ziadbruh Yup! What I find really interesting about his games is the learning curve, there's always this big moment where you connect a few dots and not only improve your gameplay but radically transform it.
Usually you notice how a small set of mechanics works, and from that point onward your whole gameplan starts orbiting those mechanics/interactions. In RE4 it's using guns for hitstun rather than kills which reintroduces beat em up elements. In God Hand it's the juggle/launcher moves and counter-hits that vastly open up the crowd control and make the game waaay more interesting. In Vanquish it's boost dodging (on hard) letting you play in a much more freeform manner (and weapon properties/cigs on god hard). In The Evil Within its the bottle stuns, traps and of course the match sticks. There's always this big "click" moment that makes the games do a 180, or at least a 90.
Also unlike other games where this "click" moment would lead to a dominant mechanic, his stuff feeds back into the fundies in a really smooth, organic way. As a result the games feel MORE freeform and interesting as you get better, instead of feeling more limited. Up to a point, anyway... It's not like UT's in Ninja Gaiden, that's for sure
What a wild thing to say at the end there lmao
i should’ve fleshed the point out more but i guess what i’m saying is that a game like RE4 has much fewer moving parts compared to bayonetta, and i think that’s evidenced by RE5 copy-pasting RE4’s foundation without any super egregious losses or 4make following its blueprint in a totally different engine and still turning out good.
whereas the list of things they fucked up in bayo 2 and 3 is endless LOL (and there’s much more staff movement on those games than just kamiya)
Siehst fresh aus mein bro 🫶🏼
@@snowflake8116 🥺