I Love how you say, "not so difficult". You are an amazing picker Sir'.. Absolutely AMAZING!. I guess with lots of practice and knowing a bit about what your dealing with helps a lot. That is just awesome. Thank you.
Picking skill are 1% Taught and 99% a lifetime of practice on as wide as possible selection of locks! After all I'm 55 years old this year and have NEVER stopped learning!
Intimidating looking but honestly many people only need the time it took you to pick the lock to come looking. In the early 2000’s I had someone defeat my disc lock and try to wheel my bike away. I didn’t have much money but I could salvage a motion detector light and some wire. I wired up the motion part behind my bike, (at home) and wired the light inside my house, (I was renting). When the light went on, I would go outside to investigate. You are a lawyer so I will just say that once I discovered two people taking my bike, and they gave it back to me after which they left.......
Classic Onguard for you... half plastic with a marsh mellow core and few major flaws hidden in the design. That X4 design is supposed to be set up so that the shackle must be cut twice to get the lock off but all of the Onguard locks Ive seen busted with that feature have only been cut once and then twisted open but they were more normal sized U locks, not a mini.
I'd like to see you pick some of the locks that are actually mounted as they'd be in real life. I realize we may not have as good a view, but I also think it's cheating a bit to pick a lock when you can position it for ease of picking. In this case, I'd like to see it picked while on on a motorcycle. That would be a more realistic test.
I noticed a lot of what looks like plastic inside, I wonder how easy a destructive entry would be. Maybe those steel end caps wont let the plastic go anywhere, preventing that.
I’m not too concerned about the plastic because of how the locking bars are braced between the main tube and the shackle... as far as other destructive attacks go, I think brute forcing the main tube is the way to go.
I own this lock witha good chain for my scooter.... it honestly just looks big and heavy. The size intimidation factor is completely gone when i see it without all that plastic.
Sir, you ve opened it so quickly than ı thought bravo :/ ı m using the 8016L Beast lock set which is using the same lock and its chain for to lock my bike, do not miss understood me but if this one opened so this quickly what would you suggest for chain lock for us? as a master... sorry for my broken english but your answer will be very helpfull to me and ı think for us too, Thank You :)
The best I can tell, the bars are held in place between the shackle and the tube when locked, so the plastic shouldn’t be an issue... but it’s hard to tell without destructively opening it.
The job of any good lock is not to prevent access, which is inevitable with enough determination, but to design effective attack resistance into the casing and locking mechanism. Master Locks padlocks as a classic example design great locks, but always fail to include a good pick resistant core.
How more difficult is it to pick a lock where you haven’t seen the key and haven’t manipulated the lock mechanism to see how it engages? Going in cold you don’t know how many disks or pins.
avalon449 someone asked that about a krptonite new york lock and send him one that he opened from the mail on cam a picked cold. And painfully fast. So yeah he can probably do it with his toes.
That depends on the lock... but for all but the truly dastardly cores (and this ain’t one), a blind pick would usually not be significantly longer. See video 550 for more on this topic. 😁
Not too bad and the best OnGuard yet. I think the picking resistance is good enough to stop thieves, and be it only through obscurity (sliders are not that common yet and this one in particular doesńt seem too easy, you are just a very, very good lock picker). The shackle diameter stays consistent where you could actually get at it for a straight cut, thats ok in my eyes. The plastic inside the body seems to not have a structual purpose because of the locking pawl design but rather to be there just to fill the hollow tube and maybe guide the pawls for smooth operation. I might be wrong and structual parts made from plastic inside a lock are always a bad idea. It´s a decent lock but as you said maybe not quite as strong as it might look from the outside. I wouldnˋt be worried if that thing would secure my bike but I would buy something stronger if I had the choice.
Good point about the X4 mechanism: you don't have to worry about which way round the shackle goes. Less fumbling. Bad point about the X4 mechanism: the shackle is weaker because of the two cut-outs. Quite possibly strong enough, so that it's not the weakest part and under a brute-force attack the pawls might give way first. But maybe it is the weakest part and it would be stronger with only one cut-out per arm.
The weak point in the system, I think, is the main tube. With enough force, that would deform and allow the shackle to slip past the locking bars... but I suspect that would require quite a bit of force.
Future destructive tests? I think this would be very loud and prove difficult. These designers believe only physical attacks need to be defended, but your method, (picking) is at best #10 or lower on their priority list.
+John-Paul Silke Very few people have the skills (or the tools) to pick a lock. Many people have hammers and crow-bars and know how to use them. So it's sensible to design against brute-force attacks. But it's not sensible to ignore picking attacks. Noise isn't always a problem. Often is, but sometimes isn't. There are places and times of day where even a picking attack would arouse suspicion. And other places and times where an angle grinder wouldn't be noticed.
But anti-picking technology is often super easy to add and in several cases, (if you look at LPL’s videos and assume an average) it can be cheaper or as cheap to add. I’m sure for the cost of a few locks they could simply send out a few to lock-sport pickers and get feedback for postage and a few dealer samples.
But why bother? Most people don't have a clue how to pick locks or to evaluate how pick-resistant a lock really is (as opposed to what the packaging claims). Many people *can* see how "beefy" a lock is and evaluate how hard it *appears* to be to brute-force it open. Which means unscrupulous manufacturers will concentrate on making a lock *look* physically strong. Making it actually physically strong costs more, and won't affect sales much. Making it resistant to picking (even if it costs no more) won't impact sales at all. The lies on the packaging are better engineered than the product.
I have this exact lock which was compromised in a strange way. I've used it with no problem for 2 years, and it is actually under a tarp at all times. I went to unlock my scooter yesterday and noticed that a neighborhood cat peed on the lock some time the prior day. I hosed it off, wd40ed and opened the lock. It was very difficult to open. I had trouble turning the key, but eventually was able to. At the end of day I gambled and locked up my scooter. This morning I sweated it out as I struggled to open the lock. It finally opened and I decided not to use the lock again. Do you think the cat pee actually corroded springs inside the lock mechanism or just gummed it up. I noticed that the pee was rather viscous and maybe it clogged up the tumblers.
A followup. I decided that the cat pee must have jammed up the mechanism and the wd40 wasnt a suitable solvent, so I soaked the lock in vinegar for half an hour. That did the trick.
pal on user guide onguard says use wd 40 when it get wet or rainin several times, ı m doin it every month and it never makes me a trouble 2 years of period ;)
Wonder how hard it would be to force the shackle to turn with the dual locking bars. That way you only have to cut the shackle on one side to remove it.
So about 1 minute and 13 secs to pick it, with a bit of stall from the commentary. I translate that into: "thief with pounding pulse is going to be at least 10 minutes doing that"... or about 10 times longer than it takes to cut through the plastic and the thinner part of the shackle. In all honesty I think that as long as it takes YOU longer to pick it than it does to kill it with a cordless angle grinder, then it is not a bad core-to-shackle match :P
I doubt many thieves develop the skills to open these... that said, the cores are not particularly pick resistant IMO. But as far as the shackle goes, it’s a HUGE overkill compared to the rest of the lock.
Being an avid picker myself I have learned that when you label something as "not particularly pick resistant" that means "will befuddle me for a good half an hour the first time around".. which in terms again means "thieves can't pick it".. at least where I live :P
A lot of security is faith-based. The owner of the lock has faith that it will deter a burglar, the burglar has faith that he can’t twist it off before the owner turns up with a bat, or worse. If everybody thought in careful, scientific terms then I’m not sure if there would be more or less burglaries, but locks would cost 10x as much as they do now.
Forget the RAMSET! WE WANT TWIST! WE WANT TWIST! WE WANT TWIST! I'm gonna sue you for my pain and suffering for not getting my twisting videos! And then im gonna hire you to represent me and demand attorney's fees! See, I'm a legal mastermind *taps head*
I stuck the wrong key into my OnGuard disc lock, turned and BROKE the tip of this key into this disc lock. Is there any way to REMOVE a broken piece of key from this lock without needing to saw it open? It is currently locking up 3 of our bikes-HELP!
A steel pipe could be installed over the lock body. Useless plastic parts should be removed. Just drill holes for shackle and key, and pipe stays securely in place.
He probably did it with a metal file or a hardened pointy tool (i dont know what its called) if the metal you try scratching is softer than the file,or the tool, it will get scratched. If not, its not gonna get scratched. Generally its how its tested.
Knife makers do it the same way after heat threating the steel. They try to file it, if the file bites in to the steel, than your steel's HRC grade is lower than file's HRC grade. I hope i could expalin it.
Turkish merhaba bende bu kilidin aynısında bende de var anahtarım da var anahtar ile de açılmıyor acil yardım eder misiniz ? English hello, i have the same lock, i have the key, it can't be opened with the key, can you help me urgently?
Mueve el candado como él quiere, en la calle en la vida real no sería tan fácil, estaría en una mala posición y no es tan fácil de maniobrar el candado que está en una posición fija.
I'm struggling to understand the mentality involved in the design of some of these locks. I'd fire the fuckers that designed and signed off on this. It is apparently more bullshit than security. Okay, we live in a world of bullshit, but increasingly we are learning that there are also competent unscrupulous attackers operating in the real world. The plastic (inside and out) is part bullshit and partly to keep the cost down. The thinning is a design flaw that is disguised by the plastic bullshit.
Turkish merhaba bende bu kilidin aynısında bende de var anahtarım da var anahtar ile de açılmıyor acil yardım eder misiniz ? English hello, i have the same lock, i have the key, it can't be opened with the key, can you help me urgently?
![[586] OnGuard "Beast" Padlock Picked and Gutted (Model 8101)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7TWvEkmrZZ8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[586] OnGuard "Beast" Padlock Picked and Gutted (Model 8101)](/img/tr.png)
![[552] "Pickproof" Dual Cylinder Disc Brake Lock Picked](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Dd-ZIIcgzPI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[696] Viro Totem Motorcycle Lock Picked and Gutted (Model 4150)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y1xA0MD4Vos/mqdefault.jpg)
I Love how you say, "not so difficult". You are an amazing picker Sir'.. Absolutely AMAZING!. I guess with lots of practice and knowing a bit about what your dealing with helps a lot. That is just awesome. Thank you.
Picking skill are 1% Taught and 99% a lifetime of practice on as wide as possible selection of locks! After all I'm 55 years old this year and have NEVER stopped learning!
Thanks... and you are spot on. Practice and knowledge of what’s inside the core are the key elements. 👍
@@lockpickinglawyer key elements. I will shamelessly reuse this pun.
Intimidating looking but honestly many people only need the time it took you to pick the lock to come looking. In the early 2000’s I had someone defeat my disc lock and try to wheel my bike away. I didn’t have much money but I could salvage a motion detector light and some wire. I wired up the motion part behind my bike, (at home) and wired the light inside my house, (I was renting). When the light went on, I would go outside to investigate. You are a lawyer so I will just say that once I discovered two people taking my bike, and they gave it back to me after which they left.......
thanks to you i did it and recovered my old bike (i lost the keys a couple of years ago). Thank you!
soy de México
excelente video
tengo un on guard pitbull y estoy seguro que hoy me lo abrieron
Great review! Question please, why don't the keys have a code disk for duplicating? It is important!
Ого, дякую вам за огляд👍🏻
Я думав що це доволі надійний замок, а його виявляється можна відкрити за 30 секунд😯
oh my god, almost buy that lock. Thanks for saving me of spend a lot of money
I really enjoy your videos, LPL. Thanks for the entertainment!
Thanks. 👍
Classic Onguard for you... half plastic with a marsh mellow core and few major flaws hidden in the design. That X4 design is supposed to be set up so that the shackle must be cut twice to get the lock off but all of the Onguard locks Ive seen busted with that feature have only been cut once and then twisted open but they were more normal sized U locks, not a mini.
I'd like to see you pick some of the locks that are actually mounted as they'd be in real life. I realize we may not have as good a view, but I also think it's cheating a bit to pick a lock when you can position it for ease of picking. In this case, I'd like to see it picked while on on a motorcycle. That would be a more realistic test.
Yeah I'd liked to see that too
Watching with anticipation. LPL, video, on guard, 6+ minutes. Im excited it took so long.
😂... I’m going to have to put a void at the end of each video to throw everyone off.
I noticed a lot of what looks like plastic inside, I wonder how easy a destructive entry would be. Maybe those steel end caps wont let the plastic go anywhere, preventing that.
I’m not too concerned about the plastic because of how the locking bars are braced between the main tube and the shackle... as far as other destructive attacks go, I think brute forcing the main tube is the way to go.
I own this lock witha good chain for my scooter.... it honestly just looks big and heavy. The size intimidation factor is completely gone when i see it without all that plastic.
Yay! Hope you had some wonderful holidays LPL. :)
Excellent review LPL .😎🌟⭐🌟⭐🌟
I got this thing anyway. Compact, lightweight, got it for 25 €, will be sticking it to what is no longer an expensive motorcycle. Wish me luck.
it looks like a heavy amperage fuse - maybe a secondary feature?
Maybe... let’s try to fry it. 😈
That lock is kind of like a sheep in wolves clothing. Nonetheless, a good video and a great pick!
As they say “All bark and no bite”
Sir, you ve opened it so quickly than ı thought bravo :/ ı m using the 8016L Beast lock set which is using the same lock and its chain for to lock my bike, do not miss understood me but if this one opened so this quickly what would you suggest for chain lock for us? as a master... sorry for my broken english but your answer will be very helpfull to me and ı think for us too, Thank You :)
so, do you recomend me to use it for my bike or no?
Que lástima que no ví este video antes. Igual yo uso 2 candados. Uno en cada rueda. Vivo en Latam, no hay sistema que los detenga 😅
Yo igual jajaja no voy a comprar esto mejor uno barato xD
Great job picking brother as always and thanks for the review!
Is the very inside plastic? The part inside the tube where the bars slide in shackle? If so it may soften enough to pop it with enough leverage
The best I can tell, the bars are held in place between the shackle and the tube when locked, so the plastic shouldn’t be an issue... but it’s hard to tell without destructively opening it.
I bet you could make a good lock 🔒 you know a lot about em
The job of any good lock is not to prevent access, which is inevitable with enough determination, but to design effective attack resistance into the casing and locking mechanism. Master Locks padlocks as a classic example design great locks, but always fail to include a good pick resistant core.
Thanks... I suspect I could at least avoid the obvious errors. ☺️ But the hacker mentality will always find a way. 👍
LockPickingLawyer that’s true even safes the best ones can be picked .... you pay for time
How more difficult is it to pick a lock where you haven’t seen the key and haven’t manipulated the lock mechanism to see how it engages? Going in cold you don’t know how many disks or pins.
avalon449 someone asked that about a krptonite new york lock and send him one that he opened from the mail on cam a picked cold. And painfully fast.
So yeah he can probably do it with his toes.
That depends on the lock... but for all but the truly dastardly cores (and this ain’t one), a blind pick would usually not be significantly longer. See video 550 for more on this topic. 😁
Well is there a disc brake lock you recommend?
So much for gingerbread ! ! !
Not too bad and the best OnGuard yet. I think the picking resistance is good enough to stop thieves, and be it only through obscurity (sliders are not that common yet and this one in particular doesńt seem too easy, you are just a very, very good lock picker).
The shackle diameter stays consistent where you could actually get at it for a straight cut, thats ok in my eyes. The plastic inside the body seems to not have a structual purpose because of the locking pawl design but rather to be there just to fill the hollow tube and maybe guide the pawls for smooth operation. I might be wrong and structual parts made from plastic inside a lock are always a bad idea.
It´s a decent lock but as you said maybe not quite as strong as it might look from the outside. I wouldnˋt be worried if that thing would secure my bike but I would buy something stronger if I had the choice.
Good point about the X4 mechanism: you don't have to worry about which way round the shackle goes. Less fumbling.
Bad point about the X4 mechanism: the shackle is weaker because of the two cut-outs. Quite possibly strong enough, so that it's not the weakest part and under a brute-force attack the pawls might give way first. But maybe it is the weakest part and it would be stronger with only one cut-out per arm.
The weak point in the system, I think, is the main tube. With enough force, that would deform and allow the shackle to slip past the locking bars... but I suspect that would require quite a bit of force.
Future destructive tests? I think this would be very loud and prove difficult. These designers believe only physical attacks need to be defended, but your method, (picking) is at best #10 or lower on their priority list.
+John-Paul Silke
Very few people have the skills (or the tools) to pick a lock. Many people have hammers and crow-bars and know how to use them. So it's sensible to design against brute-force attacks. But it's not sensible to ignore picking attacks.
Noise isn't always a problem. Often is, but sometimes isn't. There are places and times of day where even a picking attack would arouse suspicion. And other places and times where an angle grinder wouldn't be noticed.
But anti-picking technology is often super easy to add and in several cases, (if you look at LPL’s videos and assume an average) it can be cheaper or as cheap to add. I’m sure for the cost of a few locks they could simply send out a few to lock-sport pickers and get feedback for postage and a few dealer samples.
But why bother? Most people don't have a clue how to pick locks or to evaluate how pick-resistant a lock really is (as opposed to what the packaging claims). Many people *can* see how "beefy" a lock is and evaluate how hard it *appears* to be to brute-force it open.
Which means unscrupulous manufacturers will concentrate on making a lock *look* physically strong. Making it actually physically strong costs more, and won't affect sales much. Making it resistant to picking (even if it costs no more) won't impact sales at all.
The lies on the packaging are better engineered than the product.
I have this exact lock which was compromised in a strange way. I've used it with no problem for 2 years, and it is actually under a tarp at all times. I went to unlock my scooter yesterday and noticed that a neighborhood cat peed on the lock some time the prior day. I hosed it off, wd40ed and opened the lock. It was very difficult to open. I had trouble turning the key, but eventually was able to. At the end of day I gambled and locked up my scooter. This morning I sweated it out as I struggled to open the lock. It finally opened and I decided not to use the lock again. Do you think the cat pee actually corroded springs inside the lock mechanism or just gummed it up. I noticed that the pee was rather viscous and maybe it clogged up the tumblers.
A followup. I decided that the cat pee must have jammed up the mechanism and the wd40 wasnt a suitable solvent, so I soaked the lock in vinegar for half an hour. That did the trick.
pal on user guide onguard says use wd 40 when it get wet or rainin several times, ı m doin it every month and it never makes me a trouble 2 years of period
;)
Огонь видос.
The way the cutouts are designed looks like it should defeat shimming?
Definitely not shimable. 👍
Was that white stuff in there some sort of plastic that could be melted?
Yes.
What is better or secure: Kryptonite evolution series 4 chain lock or onguard mastiff 8019?
Is there anything you can't pick?
Of course... lots of locks!
Excellent explanation and really good video. Thanks bud.
Are the end caps of the lock body held in place by pins or set screws?
Pins... but don’t forget that when locked, the shackle holds them in place.
Would like to see an abus u lock feature on this channel.
Hey man, I'm really liking your videos. Could you maybe do a review of the oxford boss alarm disc lock?
Wonder how hard it would be to force the shackle to turn with the dual locking bars. That way you only have to cut the shackle on one side to remove it.
Good question. That could have been tested by inserting just one end of the shackle.
Did you not notice the marshmallow like core holding the locking pawls in place? LOL I feel a meltdown coming on!
I suspect it’s pretty hard to turn, because the locking bars are braced between the main tube and the shackle. You would need to reform the tube!
Then which disc lock best according to you ?
late reply I know. can it be shimmed ?
So about 1 minute and 13 secs to pick it, with a bit of stall from the commentary. I translate that into: "thief with pounding pulse is going to be at least 10 minutes doing that"... or about 10 times longer than it takes to cut through the plastic and the thinner part of the shackle.
In all honesty I think that as long as it takes YOU longer to pick it than it does to kill it with a cordless angle grinder, then it is not a bad core-to-shackle match :P
I doubt many thieves develop the skills to open these... that said, the cores are not particularly pick resistant IMO. But as far as the shackle goes, it’s a HUGE overkill compared to the rest of the lock.
Being an avid picker myself I have learned that when you label something as "not particularly pick resistant" that means "will befuddle me for a good half an hour the first time around".. which in terms again means "thieves can't pick it".. at least where I live :P
A lot of security is faith-based. The owner of the lock has faith that it will deter a burglar, the burglar has faith that he can’t twist it off before the owner turns up with a bat, or worse. If everybody thought in careful, scientific terms then I’m not sure if there would be more or less burglaries, but locks would cost 10x as much as they do now.
Still waiting on the RAMSET videos :/
But my garage is SOOO cold. ☹️
Forget the RAMSET! WE WANT TWIST! WE WANT TWIST! WE WANT TWIST! I'm gonna sue you for my pain and suffering for not getting my twisting videos! And then im gonna hire you to represent me and demand attorney's fees! See, I'm a legal mastermind *taps head*
Woah buddy. Ramset FTW
Lemme know how that case turns out for you.....
How will it handle the dent puller?
It would be ok... the core is inside the tube. 👍
I stuck the wrong key into my OnGuard disc lock, turned and BROKE the tip of this key into this disc lock. Is there any way to REMOVE a broken piece of key from this lock without needing to saw it open? It is currently locking up 3 of our bikes-HELP!
So, it begs to question. HOW did you get your username? Are you a lawyer that likes to pick locks?
Yes... the name is quite literal. 👍
Wouldnt twice the cut out means its weaker since metal has groves on both sides that makes it prone to shock break
I was thinking the same! The steel is very thin across where the cutouts are. They would have been better off offsetting the grooves.
How different is the Boxer from the pitbull 8005
Just different sizes.
A steel pipe could be installed over the lock body. Useless plastic parts should be removed. Just drill holes for shackle and key, and pipe stays securely in place.
Ramset, ramset, ramset!
I guess i have an old on guard cause mines a disc detainer lock with shielding rollers infront of the keyway
How do you check to see if it's hardened or not?
He probably did it with a metal file or a hardened pointy tool (i dont know what its called) if the metal you try scratching is softer than the file,or the tool, it will get scratched. If not, its not gonna get scratched. Generally its how its tested.
Knife makers do it the same way after heat threating the steel. They try to file it, if the file bites in to the steel, than your steel's HRC grade is lower than file's HRC grade. I hope i could expalin it.
Shouldn't I trust this lock?
how easy is to pick a lock while its locked on a bike down at the ground ?
Master lock??
About as good as!
Is all the white plastic inside the tube nylon?
Probably. Hard to tell.
Sounds kinda plastic???
The size is meant to fool you.
Turkish
merhaba bende bu kilidin aynısında bende de var anahtarım da var anahtar ile de açılmıyor acil yardım eder misiniz ?
English
hello, i have the same lock, i have the key, it can't be opened with the key, can you help me urgently?
That looks like plastic inside so may also may be vulnerable to a gas torch attack too.🤔😞😎
Mueve el candado como él quiere, en la calle en la vida real no sería tan fácil, estaría en una mala posición y no es tan fácil de maniobrar el candado que está en una posición fija.
im gonna sell this padlock D:
sir?
thanks for not answering...
gingerbread - ha
Well that's a damn disappointing lock.
Didn’t disappoint me at all... mostly because I wasn’t expecting much. After the beast padlock, a lock that can’t be disassembled is refreshing.
LockPickingLawyer That shackle reminds me of guys who only work out their upper bodies but have twigs for legs.
Educating crooks and thieves...
I'm struggling to understand the mentality involved in the design of some of these locks. I'd fire the fuckers that designed and signed off on this.
It is apparently more bullshit than security. Okay, we live in a world of bullshit, but increasingly we are learning that there are also competent unscrupulous attackers operating in the real world.
The plastic (inside and out) is part bullshit and partly to keep the cost down. The thinning is a design flaw that is disguised by the plastic bullshit.
Head of the thieves, you are teaching the theft wtf man your not doing good thing
Turkish
merhaba bende bu kilidin aynısında bende de var anahtarım da var anahtar ile de açılmıyor acil yardım eder misiniz ?
English
hello, i have the same lock, i have the key, it can't be opened with the key, can you help me urgently?