I dont mean to be off topic but does anyone know of a tool to get back into an instagram account?? I stupidly lost my password. I would love any tips you can give me
At This point? It would not matter if it does cost more than Lithium Ion. Its the amortized costs that matter and these batteries will outlast lithium by decades
I agree. It's an analysis to determine a reasonable pay back period. As for lasting a long long time that's important however advancing technology could make this model of battery obsolete before the end of its physical life span. This type of battery has to be adaptive to changing technology.
That's what I was thinking man. This battery will outlast anything available in the market. It's practically immortal. This product is practically analog and consequently simple and durable.
I've watched these talks with great interest over a number of years. Is there an actual timeline of implementation? As in when can Joe/Jo Public have these installed at home? We live on a tiny island and this could quite literally transform we way we do everything here - from stopping burning Filth Dirty Heavy Oil burners in our generators or connecting to Nuclear via a sea bed link cable
Charles Ashurst Tesla said they want to get to 100$/kWh at the pack level in 2019. And they are not a lot above that currently.... maybe $125 or $150 max. Basically he’s toast.
the data from panasonic does not accurately portray the performance of modern day li ion chemistry. They might have looked like that 8 years ago, but there have been developments in electrolyte additives that prolong the cycle life to 80% over 1000 cycles, and it's only going up. furthermore, cylindrical cell designs like the 18650 are not optimized for grid storage. they're optimized for Teslas. A li ion battery optimized for grid storage would use pouch cells, which carry a much greater pack density. this leads into my other point that sadoway does not mention the voltage or energy density of his batteries. it's great if you can make cheap batteries from dirt, but not if it takes up too much space. furthermore, you can vastly improve the capacity retention of lithium ion chemistry by closely managing the state of charge within a narrow window, like say betwen 30-70%. there are also li ion chemistries today (like LTO) that can cycle for 10s of thousands of cycles without significant capacity fade, although at a cost in energy density, lastly, the cost of the material matters a lot less once we develop the necessary recycling infrastructure. lead is in that quadrant of rare metals, and yet we all have it in our cars, and don't worry about its scarcity, because we recycle >99% of it. The same will be true for lithium ion batteries as well as CdTe solar cells, I presume. so the insinuation that energy cost can't fall below today's material cost is kind of hinged on a false premise, that we can't recycle these materials, and make them easier to obtain. Despite all this, I admire what Ambri is doing, and wish them all the best. Being a pioneer in a field is not easy. Hopefully, they can have a working product sooner than later.
Whatever is cheaper, faster & better will always win in every sector. His CHEM C will be a game changing paradigm shifting technology when its widely commercialized. It took many years for aluminum to become a cheap structural material in actual products like many vehicles for Lotus or the Tesla model S or some Audio performance models etc / steel is still the main vehicle assembly metal because its cheap, compact, strong & abundant, even though it has issues with corrosion, rust, forming oxides of iron, Toyota Tacoma Taco frame rail rusting problem etc.... For gigawatt class energy storage the Liquid Metal Battery from Ambri is more flexible than pumped hydro for more applications & chem C will bring the cost down to less than $50/ kWh / I am surprised more investors in the grid energy sector are not dumping money at Ambri to make it happen; to make it happen they need lots of series B & series C funding .... consider how Tesla Motors got started as an example of how layered investment funding makes it happen!
I see it this way: Storing electricity in Lithium ion battery cells ist ideal for automotive use, where low mass and operability over a wide range of temperature is a big issue. Liquid metal batteries are relatively heavier and operate at an elevated temperature, which is no big deal for biggish stationary application like net stabilisation. So, there definitely is space for both these technologies.
The advantage of this battery is in the lifetime..... And will out last 10 sets of lithium batteries..... With performance like that you would have to be crazy to buy solid state cells....ambris investors are idiots...... Thinking its all about initial cost per kWh... When can I get these hot cells for personal use?
We have massive data fibre bundles connecting the continents, and by extension, the World. Why don't we create more massive fibre bundles to carry the electricity generation around the World as well?
They are for extremely long life perhaps 100 years , very low maintenance, high volume energy storage not good for small applications, these are for hydroelectric scale storage think megawatts or a battery for an entire city or town.....at the smallest they could possibility work on a single large home.. Or a group of homes, no other battery offers advantages that even come close...cheap and indestructible
"No device can produce sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it. Humans can not manufacture Energy. Energy always and only comes flowing from the past into the future" (The Fifth Law).
It's a shame to see him bitter about what Tesla is doing when they have the same goal. Liquid metal batteries will only be better if they get out of the lab. They need to commit to a product as soon as possible. Even if they know they will be making changes.
Not bitter. Tesla and the lithium battery have their merits and until some other light battery is discovered, it is what`s best for electric transport, but for big fixed storage we need cheaper solutions, this might be one. Good luck to them
Don Sadoway talks as if his way is the only way to make a better battery. Ambri doesn't even have a working prototype. Tesla has deployed it's batteries successfuly in many production grids. Don is not yet successful and he is already a jackass.
@@jptrainor exactly the USA attracts a lot of our young smart people and that is unfortunate for Canada we need to find a way to satisfy their needs so Canada is not a place to be from.
@@offgridwanabe It's a decades old problem. It's not just about people moving. Large technology companies in Canada collapse if they try to scale up here, or stay here once established. Small businesses are bought, usually by Americans, as soon as they reach about 100 M in revenue (large enough to be a meaningful contribution to a larger - billion dollar revenue - business). I've been in the midst of it my entire working life. I consider the last 40 years to be the "doldrums" of Canadian science and technology. To change it requires a shift in mind set of the people, and by virtue of that will come a shift in mindset of government. Personally, I don't see any indication that that will happen, I see the opposite actually. The current mind set of the Canadian people is toward big government. Constantly looking for the security of a large amorphous government who can "do something". But that's getting political, so I'll stop and simply say that I think this huge liquid metal battery is really cool.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about ? He is developing a grid energy storage battery technology called Liquid Metal Battery at MIT Don Sadoway is a college professor, so he gives talks to inspire others to do something. He did partner with others to commercialize cheap huge grid scale energy storage technology, but the utilities did not buy or invest in his company Ambri, but Bill Gates the billionaire gave Don some $60 million to help get Ambri out of the lab & into the world. How about doing some basic internet research before saying concendencing idiotic things in the comments sections!
15:45 casts doubt and is critical of the competitors "dotted line" yet throws in his own "dotted line" with the very same guesstimate. Hypocritical much...?
With all the glitz and hype, I smell a great big scam. If this guy really has a revolutionary storage battery, why all the stage setting. It looks to me like this guy is looking for investors, not the secrete of miracle batteries. In a previous video about this supposed "breakthrough battery, all they showed was a cut down modular shipping container with a new paint job, and said it contained the new battery. Like other people have said, I'll believe it when I see it.
not a scam , its high temperature thats the problem generally, also high temperature corrosion ,stainless steel is expensive , also he used magnesium first - reactive -must hermetically seal from air moisture or water, then he changed chemistry to lithium, its all good material, but he changed chemistry few times ,hes also trying to lower working temperature (using bismuth) so from production point hes still standing still . so its still in lab work and full stop until he decides final chemistry.
@@Zeroni82 ; it is apparent to me that you know very little about how storage batteries work. I spent the last 10 years of my working life working on power backup systems for AT&T, so I know something about power and storage batteries. Batteries use a chemical reaction to store and discharge electricity. Some batteries do this better than others, but heat is NOT the primary limiting factor when it comes to battery performance. Although most all chemical reactions produce heat, the heat can be controlled if the system is properly designed. The real problem with storage batteries is that you cannot put energy into a battery at anywhere near the same rate as you took it out. That's why after driving your electric car at highway speeds for 1 to 2 hours, you need to recharge for 4 to 8 hours. Also, converting DC to AC, (called inverting) is very inefficient, and there is a large energy loss during conversion. Bottom line is; if this guy is on the verge of a MAJOR breakthrough in storage battery technology, why the "Hollywood" stage setting? It MAY be legit, but I have seen enough scams in my life to suspect there is something wrong here, (a lot of scams use over-the-top slick productions like this). Time will tell, but it still looks like this guy is more interested in impressing potential investors than he is in inventing a better storage battery.
@@MBighk; you use the name "Bill Gates" as if he is on par with Albert Einstein. Just because Bill made a fortune marketing other people's ideas does not make him infallible, (Bill puts on his pants one leg at a time, just like the rest of us). Have you ever wondered WHY he tells the world that Bill Gates has invested in his work? If his new storage battery is the best thing since shoe laces, why use Bill Gate's name at all? And if this guy has all the investors he needs, why the stage show? I would think his time would be better spent perfecting his idea rather than walking around on a very expensive stage with a microphone strapped to his face. The Wizard of OZ had a very good reason for his "pyrotechnic" display he put on for Dorothy's benefit; he was HIDING something behind the curtain.
Great! But when will the new battery be for sale... THEY DON'T KNOW! I emailed them. WAAAAY too slow to market. You're gonna lose the race boys. Maybe you should sell this tech to Elon Musk, he will make it happen
Remember - Google was last to market with the search engine (excluding Microsoft). Who is in first place Google or yahoo? Also, you did not listen and comprehend his lecture. Go back and listen to his prior lectures ... This will help developing as well as modern economies ... We need Lithium Ion batteries for cars not electricity backup! The solution can not be just for wealthy Western cultures.
@@jcm730 No ! You didn't understand. The battery stays hot by working it. Who is willing to accept the burden of keeping it hot, just for backup purposes ? No-one. But in situations where it can cycle twice a day; there it will excell !
+Horn Player Then you are a terrible consumer. A good consumer would check out Consumer Reports, talk with previous owners of various cars. If the used car salesperson is offering you the best deal, then you should take it, regardless what they wear.
Hmm, by all means keep pursuing this tech but environmentalists shouldn't be cheering for base load power provided by coal or nuclear to be shut down now because this battery tech ISN'T HERE NOW and it won't be for another decade at least. Just remember that when the Tambora volcano in Indonesia blew in 1815 that it blocked the sky in North America for 2 whole years. So dark were the skies that crops couldn't grow... really annoys me when leftwit media cheers for coal plants to be closed now when there's nothing else available to provide base load power. Leftwit media should be focusing on hypocrite jet-setting celebrities and their atrocious carbon footprint instead of trying to make hospitals close when the sun is blocked.
Love his approach to what he's doing. A great mind.
I dont mean to be off topic but does anyone know of a tool to get back into an instagram account??
I stupidly lost my password. I would love any tips you can give me
Where's a video of using that battery? So far I'm just seeing charts and pictures.
how much energy is needed to keep the metal hot, and how much is lost by doing so?
Awesome sense of humor! I love it!
Do you have it? Or NOT?
At This point? It would not matter if it does cost more than Lithium Ion. Its the amortized costs that matter and these batteries will outlast lithium by decades
Kudos to you and your students, Don!
I agree. It's an analysis to determine a reasonable pay back period. As for lasting a long long time that's important however advancing technology could make this model of battery obsolete before the end of its physical life span. This type of battery has to be adaptive to changing technology.
That's what I was thinking man. This battery will outlast anything available in the market. It's practically immortal. This product is practically analog and consequently simple and durable.
Oil, fuel, and energy providers will make it very hard for this guy and his invention..
I like the thought of each house being self contained energy wise. This way if someone wont pay their bill they can't pass the loss along to me.
Decentralization, yes. Jeremy Rifkin has been advocating that for decades.
Have you got one on line yet? Where is it , please?
I've watched these talks with great interest over a number of years. Is there an actual timeline of implementation? As in when can Joe/Jo Public have these installed at home? We live on a tiny island and this could quite literally transform we way we do everything here - from stopping burning Filth Dirty Heavy Oil burners in our generators or connecting to Nuclear via a sea bed link cable
Don Sadoway mentions a cost barrier of $500 / kilowatt-hr. I wonder where all the various battery technologies are a the moment.
Charles Ashurst Tesla said they want to get to 100$/kWh at the pack level in 2019. And they are not a lot above that currently.... maybe $125 or $150 max. Basically he’s toast.
the data from panasonic does not accurately portray the performance of modern day li ion chemistry. They might have looked like that 8 years ago, but there have been developments in electrolyte additives that prolong the cycle life to 80% over 1000 cycles, and it's only going up.
furthermore, cylindrical cell designs like the 18650 are not optimized for grid storage. they're optimized for Teslas. A li ion battery optimized for grid storage would use pouch cells, which carry a much greater pack density.
this leads into my other point that sadoway does not mention the voltage or energy density of his batteries. it's great if you can make cheap batteries from dirt, but not if it takes up too much space.
furthermore, you can vastly improve the capacity retention of lithium ion chemistry by closely managing the state of charge within a narrow window, like say betwen 30-70%. there are also li ion chemistries today (like LTO) that can cycle for 10s of thousands of cycles without significant capacity fade, although at a cost in energy density,
lastly, the cost of the material matters a lot less once we develop the necessary recycling infrastructure. lead is in that quadrant of rare metals, and yet we all have it in our cars, and don't worry about its scarcity, because we recycle >99% of it. The same will be true for lithium ion batteries as well as CdTe solar cells, I presume. so the insinuation that energy cost can't fall below today's material cost is kind of hinged on a false premise, that we can't recycle these materials, and make them easier to obtain.
Despite all this, I admire what Ambri is doing, and wish them all the best. Being a pioneer in a field is not easy. Hopefully, they can have a working product sooner than later.
"When it's dark in the USA, it's light in China". Shit this guys good.
Hilarious!
Hmm if it's this good with these investors why aren't we seeing national grid level storage production?
I agree. The proof should be in the pudding by now.
Whatever is cheaper, faster & better will always win in every sector. His CHEM C will be a game changing paradigm shifting technology when its widely commercialized. It took many years for aluminum to become a cheap structural material in actual products like many vehicles for Lotus or the Tesla model S or some Audio performance models etc / steel is still the main vehicle assembly metal because its cheap, compact, strong & abundant, even though it has issues with corrosion, rust, forming oxides of iron, Toyota Tacoma Taco frame rail rusting problem etc....
For gigawatt class energy storage the Liquid Metal Battery from Ambri is more flexible than pumped hydro for more applications & chem C will bring the cost down to less than $50/ kWh / I am surprised more investors in the grid energy sector are not dumping money at Ambri to make it happen; to make it happen they need lots of series B & series C funding .... consider how Tesla Motors got started as an example of how layered investment funding makes it happen!
I see it this way:
Storing electricity in Lithium ion battery cells ist ideal for automotive use, where low mass and operability over a wide range of temperature is a big issue.
Liquid metal batteries are relatively heavier and operate at an elevated temperature, which is no big deal for biggish stationary application like net stabilisation.
So, there definitely is space for both these technologies.
The advantage of this battery is in the lifetime..... And will out last 10 sets of lithium batteries..... With performance like that you would have to be crazy to buy solid state cells....ambris investors are idiots...... Thinking its all about initial cost per kWh... When can I get these hot cells for personal use?
The issue is the liquid metal battery is no good for transportation and solid state cells are the future of transportation
@@buffalo_chips9538 The liquid metal battery was designed for stationary grid energy storage, did you listen to the talk?
This is going to be good... I can feel it :)
show me a working battery, even prototype
www.ambri.com/technology/ its in preproduction waiting for investors to fund it further towards broad commercialization
Thank you Dr. Sadoway! By the way... You'd make a fantastic stand up comic too lololol
We have massive data fibre bundles connecting the continents, and by extension, the World. Why don't we create more massive fibre bundles to carry the electricity generation around the World as well?
what is the catch here. Why are the EV companies not using your batteries?
I think they have to be stationary to work. Also, I don't think they are as energy dense as lithium-ion batteries.
They are for extremely long life perhaps 100 years , very low maintenance, high volume energy storage not good for small applications, these are for hydroelectric scale storage think megawatts or a battery for an entire city or town.....at the smallest they could possibility work on a single large home.. Or a group of homes, no other battery offers advantages that even come close...cheap and indestructible
@@oceanhouse8080 One advantage would be if they actually existed.
Donald Sadoway, 21stCentury LAEDER and ICON
Where are all the Canadian backers for this Man?
Canada needs a new Plan
"No device can produce sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it. Humans can not manufacture Energy. Energy always and only comes flowing from the past into the future" (The Fifth Law).
It's a shame to see him bitter about what Tesla is doing when they have the same goal. Liquid metal batteries will only be better if they get out of the lab. They need to commit to a product as soon as possible. Even if they know they will be making changes.
I think he's doubtful not bitter.
Not bitter. Tesla and the lithium battery have their merits and until some other light battery is discovered, it is what`s best for electric transport, but for big fixed storage we need cheaper solutions, this might be one. Good luck to them
Also, as of now , it is very costly to salvage the lithium batteries.
Don Sadoway talks as if his way is the only way to make a better battery. Ambri doesn't even have a working prototype. Tesla has deployed it's batteries successfuly in many production grids. Don is not yet successful and he is already a jackass.
The sad part is he is Canadian but has to go to USA to make his product.
He is a professor at MIT. He left Canada long before creating this product.
@@jptrainor exactly the USA attracts a lot of our young smart people and that is unfortunate for Canada we need to find a way to satisfy their needs so Canada is not a place to be from.
@@offgridwanabe It's a decades old problem. It's not just about people moving. Large technology companies in Canada collapse if they try to scale up here, or stay here once established. Small businesses are bought, usually by Americans, as soon as they reach about 100 M in revenue (large enough to be a meaningful contribution to a larger - billion dollar revenue - business). I've been in the midst of it my entire working life. I consider the last 40 years to be the "doldrums" of Canadian science and technology. To change it requires a shift in mind set of the people, and by virtue of that will come a shift in mindset of government. Personally, I don't see any indication that that will happen, I see the opposite actually. The current mind set of the Canadian people is toward big government. Constantly looking for the security of a large amorphous government who can "do something". But that's getting political, so I'll stop and simply say that I think this huge liquid metal battery is really cool.
OffGrid Wanabe, sad but familiar.
Bravo
They don't build 18650 cells at the gigafactory. Not a big deal but it's a shame he didn't have students do his homework.
Tesla have redesigned the battery now.
Earth delivers millions of volts daily in lighting and only had plasma batteries that would house the lightning raining down on earth. EE
This will be just as dangerous as Lithium. Imagine a bit of water leaking into those cells full of hot liquid - Boom!
OK some of your students need to invent how to put that battery in an iPad so it will run all week.
They show nothing and they still wants us to pay this story
HIs pants look funny.
Must have been dark in his house this morning when he put those pants on.
..and the shoes :)
6 years later, exact same speech, only added the tesla dig. Stop bragging and get it functional!!
Do you have any idea what you are talking about ? He is developing a grid energy storage battery technology called Liquid Metal Battery at MIT
Don Sadoway is a college professor, so he gives talks to inspire others to do something. He did partner with others to commercialize cheap huge grid scale energy storage technology, but the utilities did not buy or invest in his company Ambri, but Bill Gates the billionaire gave Don some $60 million to help get Ambri out of the lab & into the world. How about doing some basic internet research before saying concendencing idiotic things in the comments sections!
15:45 casts doubt and is critical of the competitors "dotted line" yet throws in his own "dotted line" with the very same guesstimate. Hypocritical much...?
The sad part about having a gigafactory is cuz it costs 5 giga dollars. lol
Those pants. Daddy.
The best thing this guy can do is talk to Elon Musk. He'll make it happen for real
Those pants are too small. :D
is it your best argument?
absent minded professor- forgot his trousers
OK , battery tech is great and all......but WTF is up with your pants bro? Very distracting.
With all the glitz and hype, I smell a great big scam. If this guy really has a revolutionary storage battery, why all the stage setting. It looks to me like this guy is looking for investors, not the secrete of miracle batteries. In a previous video about this supposed "breakthrough battery, all they showed was a cut down modular shipping container with a new paint job, and said it contained the new battery. Like other people have said, I'll believe it when I see it.
not a scam , its high temperature thats the problem generally, also high temperature corrosion ,stainless steel is expensive , also he used magnesium first - reactive -must hermetically seal from air moisture or water, then he changed chemistry to lithium, its all good material, but he changed chemistry few times ,hes also trying to lower working temperature (using bismuth) so from production point hes still standing still . so its still in lab work and full stop until he decides final chemistry.
He already has major investors, including Bill Gates. It takes time to bring a new technology to market.
@@Zeroni82 ; it is apparent to me that you know very little about how storage batteries work. I spent the last 10 years of my working life working on power backup systems for AT&T, so I know something about power and storage batteries. Batteries use a chemical reaction to store and discharge electricity. Some batteries do this better than others, but heat is NOT the primary limiting factor when it comes to battery performance. Although most all chemical reactions produce heat, the heat can be controlled if the system is properly designed. The real problem with storage batteries is that you cannot put energy into a battery at anywhere near the same rate as you took it out. That's why after driving your electric car at highway speeds for 1 to 2 hours, you need to recharge for 4 to 8 hours. Also, converting DC to AC, (called inverting) is very inefficient, and there is a large energy loss during conversion. Bottom line is; if this guy is on the verge of a MAJOR breakthrough in storage battery technology, why the "Hollywood" stage setting? It MAY be legit, but I have seen enough scams in my life to suspect there is something wrong here, (a lot of scams use over-the-top slick productions like this). Time will tell, but it still looks like this guy is more interested in impressing potential investors than he is in inventing a better storage battery.
@@MBighk; you use the name "Bill Gates" as if he is on par with Albert Einstein. Just because Bill made a fortune marketing other people's ideas does not make him infallible, (Bill puts on his pants one leg at a time, just like the rest of us). Have you ever wondered WHY he tells the world that Bill Gates has invested in his work? If his new storage battery is the best thing since shoe laces, why use Bill Gate's name at all? And if this guy has all the investors he needs, why the stage show? I would think his time would be better spent perfecting his idea rather than walking around on a very expensive stage with a microphone strapped to his face. The Wizard of OZ had a very good reason for his "pyrotechnic" display he put on for Dorothy's benefit; he was HIDING something behind the curtain.
When something sounds too good to be true it usually is
Great! But when will the new battery be for sale... THEY DON'T KNOW! I emailed them. WAAAAY too slow to market. You're gonna lose the race boys. Maybe you should sell this tech to Elon Musk, he will make it happen
Remember - Google was last to market with the search engine (excluding Microsoft). Who is in first place Google or yahoo? Also, you did not listen and comprehend his lecture. Go back and listen to his prior lectures ... This will help developing as well as modern economies ... We need Lithium Ion batteries for cars not electricity backup! The solution can not be just for wealthy Western cultures.
I hope they can get it done soon for home back-up. The tech is much better than lith-ion for home storage.. lasts way longer
@@jcm730
No ! You didn't understand.
The battery stays hot by working it.
Who is willing to accept the burden of keeping it hot, just for backup purposes ? No-one.
But in situations where it can cycle twice a day; there it will excell !
I wouldn't buy a used car from someone with that sort of dress sense.
is it your best argument?
+Horn Player Then you are a terrible consumer. A good consumer would check out Consumer Reports, talk with previous owners of various cars. If the used car salesperson is offering you the best deal, then you should take it, regardless what they wear.
Hmm, by all means keep pursuing this tech but environmentalists shouldn't be cheering for base load power provided by coal or nuclear to be shut down now because this battery tech ISN'T HERE NOW and it won't be for another decade at least.
Just remember that when the Tambora volcano in Indonesia blew in 1815 that it blocked the sky in North America for 2 whole years. So dark were the skies that crops couldn't grow... really annoys me when leftwit media cheers for coal plants to be closed now when there's nothing else available to provide base load power.
Leftwit media should be focusing on hypocrite jet-setting celebrities and their atrocious carbon footprint instead of trying to make hospitals close when the sun is blocked.
Thank you for 20 min. of BLAH BLAH BLAH. nothing sprsipic nothing undrstanable only maybe promises.