Mist Coolant - Sometimes the better option!
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- This video discussed the pros and cons of mist and flood coolant
lubrication on a milling machine. Sometimes mist is the best option. Most brands of coolant mix at 4 oz. per gallon and it is very economical to use
A little trick I use when using a coolant mister, is to put some paper shop towel around the top of the vice or on the lathe bedway. It not only soaks up the surplus coolant, but also collects the swarf. Just pick it straight up and chuck it in the waste bin, job done in 1 go.
That is a good idea for sure, I'll give that a try.
Nice work Winky, I made a similar one, both the fluid and the air supply are low pressure with the control valve on the coolant. Well worth having, your mill cutters will love you for it! Cheers!
Thanks, I agree.
simple no crap explanation. have subscribed as well. thanks
Thanks and welcome
Simple, down to earth, I like it.
Thanks!
You're welcome!
I appreciate your practical approach to your machining videos
Glad you like them! Thanks!
A real cool video. I got misty eyed just watching.👍
Glad you enjoyed it HA!
Incredibly helpful, consice, and insightful video.
I think flood coolant is the best but for the home shop mist is a good way to go.
Good choice Winky, As I learned from industrial experience,I use mist coolant in my shop for all turning , milling, drilling [cutting] Cooling the tool is more important than lubricating it. There is enough lube in the mist coolant. Brushing on cutting oil helps cutting SOME, but the smoke is bad for the lungs, only flooding with cutting oil [cooling] is superior and no smoke. Brushed on cutting oil is of course best for threading and reaming operations.
I agree. Thanks for the comment. Several people have commented about the hazard of breathing mist and I can not say for sure how bad this is but from what I read on the OSHA web side, the recirculating coolant (flood) can be MUCH more hazardous. Apparently heat and friction dissolves metals into the coolant and over a short period of time the coolant becomes saturated and is very toxic. Water acts as a vehicle and lets your body absorb the metal. Then heat and friction from cutting evaporates the coolant while milling and both the metal and the crap that grows in the tank are terrible to breath. Apparently much worse than a clean one time use coolant.
@@WinkysWorkshop Yes, I bet the smoke from brushed on oil when cutting is worse than all you have stated, I know I just can't breathe it without coughing my lungs out, so switched to mist coolant lol!
@@AWDJRforUA-cam - You could be right.
Another video of good useful information. I could hear that beast that you call Mellow in the background. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with for a pan and drawers on the mill.
Ha... My wife came home and the dog had to announce her arrival. I'd like to add storage under the mill but now I'm thinking I might try to put my welder under there. It would be great to have it near my garage door plus where I have it now is around a lot of wood.
@@WinkysWorkshop If you don't need a cabinet for mill tooling it sounds like that would be a great place for the welder. Even if I don't get to see the build on the cabinet -- UNHAPPY FACE TO YOU!! I went back and watched the video were you were pulling the cord reel up and down getting Mellow all worked up. Dogs can be a piece of work sometimes.
I'll make a video to keep you happy and if I don't I'll make another one of Mellow. He he he...Gotta keep my faithful viewers happy! Thanks!
@@WinkysWorkshop you have me laughing. Have a good evening Winky -- see you later
A tablespoon of Clorox in the coolant helps keep the algae down. You do need to wipe the machine down after using spray coolant. That will keep the gum from building up as the water evaporates. If you leave it long enough it will leave a sticky mess and stain the bare metal surfaces.
Flood coolant does work well... if you use the machine every day. If left in the coolant tank for any length of time the coolant makes a smelly mess. Just pouring it out and adding new will do ok for a while but you really need to scrub the tank out to get good life out of the new coolant.
At the end of the day if you use a machine intermittently an acid brush and plain cutting oil does ok most of the time in a hobby shop.
Cheers from NC/USA
I usually clean up pretty good. I used to worry about what was under the vise but even after 6 month it's just a black residue that cleans up with a little steel wool.
You could add a valve in the coolant line to control the flow if the unit doesn't have one.
Yeah it has a flow valve I could turn off. I just need to mount the tank lower and turn the main air off. That way I don't have to mess with it. Just turn the air on and its all adjusted - But thanks for the idea.
Hi Winky, I have a wood bandsaw that I use for metal, as expected it burns the blades out in minutes due to it going too fast. After lots of trial and error, I found the best solution was one of these mist coolant sprays. It really does work, I put a new 14 tpi bi-metal blade in when I fitted the mister and 9 months down the line the blade still feels sharp and is cutting fine. It pays to keep trying different solutions to different problems and your shows are full of ideas!
Cool on the band saw! I'll bet it even cuts faster now. Yeah.... got lots of idea. Sometimes I overwhelm myself. Ha
@@WinkysWorkshop Great... keep the ideas coming, your ideas improve my workshop and I need all the help I can get!
@@WinkysWorkshop It does cut faster because it blows away the chips and stops it cutting them twice but I try to slow it down with the feed...
@@28gwdavies Your very welcome! More to come
It is worth adding a brass ball with a tight through hole to the end of the tube, it will keep it submersed regardless of the orientation of the tube syphoning the coolant.
Good idea!
And if you thread the ball with a chamfer on at least one end, easier to put it on!
@@peterc5512 so true
Gday, another great helpful tip, thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but if you put that check valve in the line it would likely make the siphon start much faster or almost immediately if the tank is sitting down low. It won't need to pull fluid up the entire line before it starts to get flow
I agree. I had it in there for a while but it kept plugging up. I'm sure it was stuff growing in the tank. I guess I don't do enough milling to keep thing new coolant in there.
My mill is very similar to yours. I don't have any of your gadgets yet, but I do
have an Emergency Stop button which I fitted.
My mill is vicious!!!!
A Vicious Mill? You need to train it better!
Speed, Feed, and Depth of cut is the business we've chosen. If you can't smoke it, drink it, you ought not breathe it.....With all the time a model engineer or home shop machinist spends on setup and prep, are we using fluids to ramp up and get the job done sooner? Are we using it to keep that carbide endmill sharp? Maybe if that block is a piece of Inconel. We need not use Carbide and cooling on a machine that is not rigid enough to handle aggressive Speed, Feed, and DOC. We can make that same cut using HSS in nearly the same amount of time and have a sharp endmill when we are done thanks to our handy Speeds, Feeds, and Depth of cut found in our handy handbook.
You make some good points and undoubtedly I don't always use the correct speed or feed. With that being said, I have notice a difference between HSS and carbide on the lathe but not so much on the mill. In fact I regularly use carbide on both machines. Carbide on my mill has saved me a lot of money. In fact I have been using the same 1/2" carbide end mill for almost a year now. I think I only paid $30 for it. I'm astounded.... it just keeps on going. The amount of coolant I use doesn't get in the air. I've tied increasing the flow and a little seems to do just as well as a lot.
@@WinkysWorkshop I appreciate what you are doing putting yourself out there and getting people interested in metalwork. These topics were once common knowledge to the layperson. Todays world seems to think material items fell to us from heaven. Keep up the good work.
@@crazydansmachineshop8718 - Thanks... yeah, it seems to be computer and cell phone related. We used to look at a radio or lawnmower and think, I can figure this out if I try hard. now look at a cell phone. I think this is at least part of the problem.
I'm Misty, too much in love!!!
Right?!
@@WinkysWorkshop ua-cam.com/video/EvdeohNWHS8/v-deo.html
@@WinkysWorkshop I have a brain glitch that makes everything I see or do associate with a song.... My wife thinks I'm crazy....
Am setting up a MSC Wrong Fu mill. Will try to use some of your mods on my mill.
So far I love it. Keep in mind that you may have to modify your approach. There are quite a few variations to this mill.
Agree a must system is best for a mill!! Cheap too!
Yes it is cheap and easy
Had a mist-er for a few years now,someday I should install it.
Ha.. true
Wow, was that a fast response for a video idea! Thank you very much for sharing! This is one gizmo that my mill must have! Now i must ask, did you purchase this as a kit or, buy the components to DIY? Might you have any suggestions as to where to get that valve and lines? Do you use rust inhibiters in the juice? (The coolant we have at work will turn a lathe or a mill into an anchor in no time)!
I should have covered the corrosion issue better. I've used this stuff for about 2 years now and usually go about 6 month without moving the vise. No corrosion that I can tell but there is a black residue that is a little hard to get off. I used steel wool and it came off fairly easy. The sprayers are a kit that comes with about 4 feet of tubing. The only down side was metric tubing. 8 mm for the air and I think 4 mm for the coolant. Lowes sells a 5/16 that works for the air and I used push to connect fittings. I use Koolmist coolant and I can't remember the brand on the sprayer but I got them both on Amazon. I don't think there is much difference between them as long as you get one with two valves,
You can buy the complete thing on E bay for about $ 10
@@daveticehurst4191 - Thats very cheap! I think I paid 25-30
@@WinkysWorkshop That's probably because you got the 2 valve one. Ebay Australia lists them at A$15 which is about $ 10 American. for the Single valve one.
@@daveticehurst4191 - Yeah, I've had a couple single valve type... they do not work very well.
I'd certainly be interested in comparisons between flood and mist. I can see advantages of both but which outweighs the other I don't know - maybe depends on your own set up. If you've not got a flood system capable machine, the mist is a good option.
I'm sure any machine could be converted to flood. Id have to drill a hole in my table and install a drain and that's it. Of course a I'd need the brackets to mount the flex line, tubing, a reservoir, valves and a pump too. We used flood where I worked. It is better but it's also high maintenance and messy. The tank gets dirty and grows stinky slimy stuff and occasionally a line would break and floor the floor or a drain would plug and do the same. The biggest advantage to flood it that it floats the chips away. Mist is a much cleaner and easier solution for a home shop and it's almost as good in my opinion.
@@WinkysWorkshop Smaller machines don't appear to have liquid management. The answer there would be to mount the whole machine in a tray that's big enough no matter where the liquid drips from !
My vice has no liquid management - so really the entire thing needs to be on the table inside the liquid management channels. I note proper vices have channels in them that channel liquid to near the mounting holes - which of course are always on the table.
Noting your attaching your mister - Abom79 has his mounted on a magnet. I think that's a far better idea as you can position it where it's needed without long lengths of that fit together tubing.
What I have is attached to a stand attached to an old speaker magnet !
I was surprised that the air? was tubed almost to the nozzle and had assumed it was misted back at the valve block via a venturi arrangement.
@@millomweb - I had one apart some time ago... from what I remember is was simply an 1/8" (or 4mm) tube inside the flex line down to about 1 inch from the nozzle. My mill table and vise are set up for flood but I don;t want to mess with it. You are right however... a pan under the entire mill would be a very good idea. I'd love to be able to use a magnet but it won;t stick to the caste iron. It will a little but not good enough. Strange Chinese cast iron?
@@WinkysWorkshop So that's what they did with all their spare Uranium !
I wonder what they've used then !!! Cast iron's famously magnet-attracting. Does it not stick well even on bare flat surfaces ?
@@millomweb The surface is a little wavy but mostly they don't stick well enough. Probably about half strength.
I have something similar but I use the 5l container from a garden sprayer and I found that the siphon didnt work very well so I put another air line (with valve) into the top (above the coolant level) of the 5l container but I do need to have a good seal so that there is excess pressure above the coolant and it works a treat with the container on the floor. I have the push fit 1/4 connectors on all the lines.
I don;t have much problem if I keep the tank level within a foot of the mister. Yes, push to connect is the way to go!
Hi mark I like it but I don’t use it much . Take care
How come?
Thank you for explaining this whole mist coolant thing . The advantage of having the swarf away from the workpiece is really great . I saw your video on the threading dial and i hope am not asking something stupid but how many teeth should the gear have ? That is something i need to make for my Lantaine lathe since i bought it without the dial. Thank you for your awesome videos.
My threading dial is gear 32 tooth and a diameter of 1.32" but what you need might be a lot different. It depends on how the lathe is geared and the lead screw. Also metric is different.
@@WinkysWorkshop It'll depend entirely on the thread pitch of the leadscrew. The dial will only work with imperial OR metric, not both. It also depends on the pitch being cut as to whether you can use quarter marks, 1/8th marks or whole revolutions of the dial. The only pitch you can be totally careless about is if you're cutting the same pitch as the leadscrew !
I used to put disinfectant in the coolant in the lathes I used. It seemed to keep the bacteria at bay. I did some research into coolant and it seems possible to contract Legionairs disease from poorly maintained coolant systems.
I wonder if that is the mist type. I think I'll put a little bleach in there. Then wait a day or two before I use it.
@@WinkysWorkshop be careful adding to the coolant. Most of coolants have anti fungal additives already in them and adding something like bleach may kill them off or worse, create something harmful to skin, lungs or the materials in machine or workpiece if they react together. It pains me to say that because I like bleach, but I’ve had some bad experiences with it.
On the other hand a little bleach in a sink full of warm water will remove that very fine dirt residue that oftentimes accumulates in fingerprints, nails, minor abrasions, and etc. of your hands even after you have washed them. Use it with a small nail brush and your hands will come out looking like you are a lawyer or other paper pusher! You will actually see the wash water go from clear to discolored as you do this in short order.
What about corrosion from water based coolants? And conversely breathing atomized oil coolants? I have spent my life fighting corrosion so water near a machine makes my hair stand on end. Likewise breathing it and getting an oil based pneumonia would be a very unpleasant thing! Getting your face down there to exam a part or a cut would be a normal thing and it seems a likely scenario of not turning off the mist for a quick peak resulting in inhalation. Hopefully my concerns are unfounded (especially since I have long had all the parts to set up my own but have just held back for the above reasons). Good topic.
The bottle of coolant makes it sound like it's totally safe and says it will not fog, Well, if you use a lot of air it will create a fog but I keep the air very low. I'm not concerned at all. It is water base and I used to worry about corrosion but it doesn't seem to be a problem. I left my vice in place for about 6 month and when i removed it there was moisture and a black stain. 90% of it wiped off and a little steel wool removed the rest quickly. Technically I'd say this was corrosion but it seems to be very well controlled. The brand I use is Koolmist
V good sir
Thanks
The one I have has a magnetic mount. Makes it ease to move between machines.
For some reason magnets dont stick very well to the cast on my mill. Who knows what they put in the casting!
@@WinkysWorkshop Mu Taiwanese mill has a lot of filler in poor castings, so certain areas are difficult to stick a magnet. Used to be the standard test on old cars that were tarted up with body filler to hide the effects of metal worm.
I will get this for my mill
I'm not sure what kind of mill you have but I have started using air only and carbide mills. The air blows the chips out of the cut and seems to cool enough for carbide. Aside from dry chips on the floor it's easier to clean up.
Hey Winky! Really enjoying your videos…I have a Centeral machinery round column mill drill and I noticed you added a Z axis read out. Do u have a how to video? Thanks randy
Hello Randy, It's on my list to do a video on this. I sacrificed my depth stop to install the DRO and would like to have it back. I need to put some thought into this!
Hi I am a 74 year old newbie after you use the mist cooler do you need to dry the vise and table off at the end of the day to prevent rust?
I ran mist on my mill for about 2 years and there was a very slight amount of corrosion under the vise. It was more like discoloration. I think I had the vise off maybe 2 times in this 2 years. I've since switched mills and went to flood coolant. For sure it is more of a hassle to deal with but it also works much better. My biggest problem with the mist was running it at a rate that would not create over spray but still cool. It worked great if you used enough but it made a mess if you did a lot of milling.
I really like the mist idea. People often over lube and make such a mess.
I agree, it doesn't take a lot to keep thinks cool.
Interesting power lift on the mill, did you do a video on it? I looked but did not see one.
ua-cam.com/video/_2JXRt3_4qw/v-deo.html
@@WinkysWorkshop Thank you!
winky do you think misting system would be appropriate for a mini mill system?
This is an older video. I try to avoid using mist now. Mostly due to health concerns but also mess and some corrosion although it is minimal. I use almost all carbide now and coolant isn't needed. If you are using HSS mills it'd ideal and honestly, the health concerns may not be significant if you keep the pressure low.
I'm planning on doing the same on my lathe and mill what I'm wondering is how much air does it use I've got an 80 gallon tank and after a certain time in the evening I don't run it so I don't bother my neighbors and I work at night a lot especially in the summer was just wondering what size tank you have and how long can you run without the compressor running what psi does it need to function ??? Thanks for any input 👍👍👍
It takes very little air of coolant. I'm guessing you could mll 2 hours with an 80 gal tank. I've actually started using air only on carbide end mills. It takes a bit more air but it blows the chips out of the way.
Thanks man much appreciated. I've been wanting to do that for awhile I just don't wanna bug my neighbors in the evening since I haven't got to build an enclosure around my compressor yet. do you happen to remember the name of the coolant you use ???
@@umahunter Your welcome, This is what I use. amzn.to/3s5OOUw
Hi Winky, what kind of Coolant do you use. Thanks
I use Koolmist but to be honest I've stopped using it most the time. I use carbide most the time and it handles heat fairly well. I just run air to keep the chips cleared out. I do use it when I run larger HSS mills (I can't afford the big carbide mills)
Great info thanks wink'.
Any time! Thanks
Awesome!
Thanks!
Two question: 1) How harmful is breathing the mist/vapor that is in the air? 2) Does the mixture of coolant and water ever cause rust/oxidation to the mill, i.e. is it necessary to thoroughly clean and dry the mill if it's not going to be used for some time?
Good questions and in hindsight I should have covered both in the video. 1)according the bottle on the fluid I use (kool mist) it's totally safe and without hydrocarbons and will not fog. Well that is mostly true but it will fog if you turn up the air but at a low flow rate I'd say this is true. I can't say for sure how safe it is but the OSHA web site seems to think Flood Coolant is worse because it picks up metal in the solution which is absorbed through the skin. I'm not the expert however so you need to look into this yourself. 2) Corrosion is almost zero. I have had my vise in the same position for months at a time and it stays wet under the vise. There is a black residue but most of it wipes off and what does not will come off with a little steel wool. Technically I'm sure this is corrosion but in my opinion not an issue.
@@WinkysWorkshop Thank you for responding. I like the idea of mist cooling but the thought of vapor/mist in the air bus me. I can put gloves on and avoid contact with metals in hydrocarbon flood coolant and be more comfortable than wearing respiratory protection while using a mist system. I'll have to do some research. The other thing I wondered about with mist is whether it travels to other places and ends up leaving a coating over time on everything else in the shop, walls, floor, machines etc. Sawdust is a pain but I can vacuum it, a sticky coating would be annoying to clean up. Discoloration and corrosion also bug me even if they don't really have any harmful effect. I need to put some thought into this. So far, cutting oil on a chip brush has worked pretty well for me.
@@pyromedichd1 - No problem, sometimes I miss comments but I try to respond to all comments.
I hate these coolant misters! Our shop has one on every manual machine. Like 10 misters or more. Within an hour, the whole shop is foggy. People get sore throats and nauseated but company insists there safe. Coolant is full of chemicals and bacteria, you atomize that into the air so your breathing it.
Magnetic mount would eliminate need for drilling into milling machine to mount.
That would be preferable but the magnets won't hold on the Chinese cast iron. I ended up bolting a steel plate to the side of the mill so that I could use a magnet and reposition.
You could probably reuse the coolant, drain it thru a coffee filter.
I'm sure you could but it's a very small amount and probably not worth the effort.. in my opinion anyway.
You can tune a guitar but you can't tune a fish.
That coolant is really expensive stuff.
Do you have a link for the 2 valve nozzle assrmbly please? Thanks
This is the one I have but there are many just like it. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071DXGGP4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1