Comprehensive 85mm Spotting Scope Review
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
- **correction - I stated that the price for the maven is $3000 in this video. That is wrong. It is $2200 USD. When I was pulling up the prices on the Maven site it automatically converts to CAD as I am in Canada however it does not indicate on the site that it is listed in CAD so I was unaware. I updated the info in the spreadsheet and it does not change my recommendations but it certainly makes the scope more attractive at that price**
Welcome to my most ambitious review yet. I compare 6 popular 85mm spotting scopes: Swarovski ATX 85mm, Kowa TSN Prominar 88, Zeiss Conquest Gavia 85mm, Maven S.1A 80mm, and Zeiss Victory Harpia 85mm to give you a better understanding about what makes them different, and which one may be best for you. 100% unbiased, highly technical, and overly detailed, as always!
**RAFFLE IS NOW SOLD OUT**
The raffle for the winning spotting scope is now live. You can join and buy tickets at www.mindful-reviews.com/
0:00 - Intro
1:47 - Mindful Reviews and the spotting scope raffle
3:36 - Tribalism and psychological marketing
5:04 - Objectivity and financial incentives
7:59 - No such thing as a “perfect” spotter
9:07 - Review methodology and categories
13:20 - Scoring system
18:27 - Pricing
21:53 - Weight & Weight Honesty
26:25 - Length
27:57 - Angled & Straight options
29:33 - Origin of manufacture
35:44 - Descriptive Class Rankings
36:26 - Warranty
44:12 - Durability
49:16 - Hardware
53:19 - Build Quality
53:57 - Weather Resistance
58:24 - Frame Material
1:00:11 - Internal Gas Purged
1:02:49 - Construction Class Rankings
1:05:16 - Magnification
1:06:54 - Objective Lens Size
1:07:13 - Field of View
1:10:37 - Glass Quality
1:20:24 - Glass Coatings
1:22:53 - Eye Relief
1:24:52 - Close Focus Distance
1:26:30 - Optics Class Ranking
1:28:28 - Performance Class
1:35:51 - Final Rankings
Mindful Reviews
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Jay Nichol
jay@mindfulhunter.com
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Reviews like this really enrich the hunting community. The time, effort, and honesty you put in are appreciated. Cheers.
Appreciate the feedback.
I am not a hunting enthusiast, but I recognize the seriousness in the work that has been provided. Theses optics are relatively expensive and their acquisition must be thought out. I think that your review allows us to put in perspective the decisions to make or not without influencing us directly by the marketing. Thank you very much.
I really appreciate that feedback. It’s cool to see my content land for people outside the hunting community as well.
This is such a phenomenal review. Not a hunter but came across this review when trying to decide on spotting scopes to see birds and landmarks from my high-rise apartment. Your breakdown and thorough analysis was insanely helpful, clear and concise. Your reviews are great man - used your first aid video for prep on an upcoming camping trip. Great work.
Really appreciate the feedback!
This is the best comparison review on UA-cam. Thank you for the in-depth and upfront review. Based in this, I pulled the trigger on a Kowa 553, because of your praise for the fluorite glass and the brand lineup.
That’s 55 is a beast!
The amount of effort you dedicated to doing this is incredible. Major Kudos for your input and efforts to stay objective. Bravo.
Thanks man. Appreciate that.
Fantastic review! Very informative and I think the result is quite accurate and paints a very clear picture for any prospective spotting scope buyers. Great work as always 👍🏻
Really appreciates your help man! Many more to come.
This is exactly what I needed to see! Been procrastinating on ordering the Tricer but had not heard about the Wiser yet. You have definitely helped sway my original decision!
Appreciate the feedback man. And glad I could help.
Hell ya Jay one hell of a review, I think you did a great job in how u set it up and being non bias as always! Even being long no issues sitting down to watch start to finish 👌
Thanks brother!
More information than i thought i needed! I appreciate the honest and unbias review. Im looking at a swarovski spotter as my first dip into premium glass. You deserve way more subs than what the channel has. The amount of research you put into this video alone is crazy. I dont sub to many channels but yours is now one of them! Thank you for the informative review!
Appreciate the support man. Growing slowly but surely!
@MindfulHunter if you dont mind me asking, who provided you with the Kowa? I've seen a few reviews but havn't had the oppertunity to see them in person. I'm from Alberta so a fellow Canadian and would love to support a Canadian business rather than buy online from halfway around the world.
Another superb review.
And I would like to vote a massive yes to how the production of optical glass works for sure.
Keep it up mate
Thanks! Will do!
I learned more about these spotters than i ever thought i wanted to know. Very in depth review my man. Just going off the many other reviews I've watched the kowa is up there with the big three ( ziess, swaro, leica) as far as optical clarity.
Thanks for the feedback! I’m a big fan of kowa. Just picked up the new 66. Review coming soon.
That pile of information sure does eliminate questions. Nicely done.💪
Thanks brother!
I appreciate how much effort you put into being thorough and unbiased. I am new to hunting and I wanna get a bear in the Sierra Nevadas. It has been tough navigating all the information on UA-cam since so many people are shilling instead of reviewing. Saved for future reference. Hope to see more reviews from you in the future.
Keep me updated on your progress!
Excellent as usual Jay, you are a pioneer in the space of honest, no strings attached analytical reviews! I am a big believer of the biggest investment and value when entering hunting at higher level is boots, optics and backpacks! I would be interested in getting a review or your take on a similar comparison in guns. Gunwerks, Fierce etc are nice but I rock the budget Tikka and it straight out does the job for much better value but I have considered switching out the stock to a foldable mdt chassis to increase performance and versatility.
Thank you! I agree wholeheartedly with the Tikka. Best value gun on the market. I will try to get some more gun reviews in the mix.
Awesome job as usual. The Maven is on sale right now for $1,870.00 for those interested. I know it's not the Kowa, but I can't help but wonder how that would have affected the final rankings. Thanks for the time you put into the review! I found it very helpful.
You’re 100% right. At that price it’s really a flip of the coin between that and the conquest for me. I like the maven build quality better but I like the 60x of the conquest. Either one is a great choice in that price range.
What a great review! Can’t believe I haven’t seen this channel till now?
Subscribed!
Awesome. Thanks for the support man!
Amazing review! thank you very much!! I feel so much more confident in selecting the best scope for my needs! I learned a lot from your video. thanks again!
My pleasure. Happy to help.
I have used spotting telescopes since 1987 for bird and wildlife watching, my first scope was the Kowa TSN-3 with 20x, the second scope the Zeiss Diascope 85 with 20-60x zoom. The latest scope is the Kowa TSN-99 Prominar with both 30-70x zoom and 40x which are the very best spotting telescope you can get right now for bird and wildlife watching, I can very highly recommend the Kowa TSN-99 Prominar spotting telescope ! I have tried most of the top tier spotting telescopes on the market, when I got the Kowa TSN-99 I compared it side by side to the Zeiss Victory Harpia 95, the Kowa are faster and much more easy to "catch" a bird in flight and focus on !
Deeply considering that 99 right now.
@@MindfulHunter Here in Europe the Kowa 99 with zoom and the Zeiss 95 zoom was the same price in autumn 2022, now (april 2023) the Zeiss cost more without a zoom them the Kowa with zoom !
I will very highly recommend the Kowa 40xeyepiece, I think it is the best eyepiece of any brand right now.
Hey. How do you think the older zeiss diascopes (made for them by meopta) compare too today's best optics? Like the Zeiss harpist, kowa prominar, meopta 82 or swaro stx 85.
From when I looked through the old diascopes they were crazy clear. Better than the swaro's and leica's. Never looked through a kowa
Great review. Love the passion and attention to detail. One piece of info worth mentioning… as you were knocking vortex on the unlimited lifetime warranty and that the have to pay for that service somehow. Maven pays for that by being a direct to the consumer manufacturer and pays for their warranty coverage by cutting out the middle man.
It’s a fair point. I would definitely prefer Maven over Vortex
This is amazing content. Truly becoming one of my favorite hunting channels. Informative and truthful.
Thx brother!
Great vid!
Would love to see a light weight comparison some day. Mainly the Kowa 55mm vs the swaro ATC.
Keep doing what you’re doing.
It’s on the way!
Awesome review. The most detailed I’ve seen on UA-cam. Earned my sub. However I do want to point out that Kowa USA, which according to Kowa covers the whole America continent, has a limited lifetime warranty instead of the 40:00 listed 10 year limited warranty at the time of writing.
Great point. Appreciate the clarification!
Nice! Been waiting for this review. Would be stocked to see a light weight spotter review as well! Cheers
It’s in the works
Appreciate all the time and efforts. That was quite the journey. If money wasn’t an issue for me I’d indeed choose the Swaro all day long but since it is an issue I do own the Razor. I didn’t think it was fair tossing in the Razor with these other class leading elite giants but I guess you wanted to pick on something to rank last. Glad to see it was in the mix even though it really wasn’t lol. I will back my Razor over the other cheaper spotter options though. I do think it stacks up well (maybe the best) against the other “less expensive” spotter options. Just my 2 cents.
Appreciate the feedback man. At the end of the day I’d you’re happy with your gear and it works for you that’s all that matters.
Just found your channel! Been a long time since I watched a review video almost all the way thru. Great video!!
Thanks!
That’s a lot of to digest, but great info! I would love to see the glass deep dive. That would provide a lot of context to rifle scopes as well.
Thanks Keith. I think that would be really valuable as well. I’ll start working on it.
This is a great review! Really appreciate your detail. I noticed the same tint on the razor.. I agree with the Tract comment about the glass coatings. I tested a Tract compared to Meopta Meostar with fluorite and it wasn’t close. I love Tract Optics and their binos but felt like the Meopta was leaps ahead. I also noticed the Maven B2 are a different level ahead of the Tract Toric binos but much more expensive. Perhaps it is the coating process as mentioned since Tract is using top shelf glass. I just didn’t get a “wow” factor with their spotter but did with the Meopta. Thanks again really enjoyed this review.
I would have loved to get the Meopta in this mix. Already working on a round 2!
Awesome it is a pretty incredible value. Your lineup was impressive and I appreciate the detail. Thanks again!
I started in a similar place just slightly before you I had a 350D and then went to the 40D. Great cameras definitely encouraged me. Sadly at the age I was at then I couldn't afford a 5D (original) but I looked on with awe at the shots people were making with them. I went off and tried Fuji after that as I loved the tactile dial approach but I am contemplating finally making the jump to full frame and going back to Canon shortly now I can finally afford it :)
I remember wanting a 5d so bad!
The Kowa 77 would have fit into the lower price category, but it in no way would compete at the same level as the Vortex and Maven, it’s an Alpha level spotter. For anyone that needs stick to a lower price point, the 77 is phenomenal. It uses the same beautiful wide angle eyepiece as the 88, the TE-11WZ.
You’re 100% correct. I feel like I may have spoken too harshly about the 77 when all I wanted to do was make sure people knew it had the other glass. The other thing you noted that I missed was was specifically comparing the eyepieces.
The 77 kowa blows the vortex out of the water
Thanks for all of the time and effort that you put into your video.
Although I don't think my load out Birding is the same as a Hunter, I appreciate that you're pushing your equipment that much harder. Personally, I like that you can break apart Swarovski. (Use the STX w/65mm & 1.7 Magnifier) for a carry-on bag. Do love the Leica scopes. I've looked through birding in groups like you brought together for your evaluation.
Best regards.
I really love it when people outside the hunting community find value in my videos. Thanks for the feedback!
@MindfulHunter I'm looking forward to watching your Binocular review when I can clear an hour for my undivided attention.
Love my Noctovids... And am afraid to even look through a pair of NL Pures because I can't afford them right now.
Thanks again for all the information and evaluations. Not everyone can visit B&H, although everyone should once.
Very informative! 👌 Thanks Jay!
My pleasure man!
I'd be interested in hearing your take on the athlon spotting scope. Great video!
I reviewed a pair of Athlon binoculars in my latest 10 X 42 review. I think they’re a good option for those with an extremely low budget not really competitive for better offerings.
I do digiscoping with the Swarovski ATX 115 mm scope with outstanding results😀👍…. Good in dept review
👍
I believe the Maven is listed on the website as 2,200 dollars unless I’m mistaken. At 3400 probably not the right choice but with fluorite glass at around 2k, probably the best mid range option although the Zeiss is neck and neck with it…great detailed review!
You are 100% correct. I made a note in the description when I noticed the error. The way Maven displays pricing it automatically changes to your country but doesn’t shoe the denomination. So I saw a CAD price and assumed USD. my mistake. You are also right that at that price point it is a much more attractive option that I suggested.
@@MindfulHunter I thought that might be the case, are Canadian dollars that drastically different than USD? Guess I never realized the exchange rate or whatever it’s called was so different
Think you got the top three right. Swaro's seem to be the scope of choice if you have the spondulicks,but,make no mistake image wise the Kowa is as good as good as it gets. In my humble opinion .
My scope of choice is the Zeiss 85fl Diascope with the 20x75 zoom ,but, that's another story.
Thanks for a most interesting review.
My pleasure man. And 100% that Kowa is a beast.
Do you think the diascopes are as good as the modern scopes?
Because from what I've seen diascopes (made by meopta) had significantly better resolution and clarity than swaro and especially leica. Wasn't even close. But those were the swaro ATS scopes vs diascopes.
Wonder if today the kowa prominar are actually a step up or just finally caught up to zeiss.
Personally I have never looked through a swaro I was blown away with resolution wise. I always thought the diascopes....even 20 year old ones and the meopta s2 were way better than anything else.
Curious what you think
Awesome review Jay! I've been looking forward to this one for a while. Excited for the 65mm Class review and to see if the Kowa hangs near the top there too. Great to see some backup to what I've read/heard about that brand.
Definitely stiff competition. Appreciate the feedback.
I picked up the vortex a couple years ago and have been extremely disappointed in the image quality and low light performance. So many people rave about the brand so i figured maybe it was just my eyes or something. This clarifies what I’ve been seeing, no pun intended.
There’s definitely decent affordable glass out there, but vortex is not on that list lol
great review, very much appreciate all the work you put into these reviews.
One suggestion, if you're planning to do another review on glass, Omer at Precision Optics in Quesnel B.C is a guru on the subject. Would love to see you collaborate with him on a future review if possible.
Thanks man. It’s a labour of love.
Most reviews-even if there totally UNBIASED-are about 20 minutes long this guys intro to the review is about 20 minutes long. Truly Comprehensive.
I could definitely get to the point a little quicker some times 🤣
@@MindfulHunter If I was going to spend north of 1600 dollars on an instrument I'd want all the details.
I learned much in this vid. thank you.
Thank you!
This is my opinion, I was on my annual moose hunting trip to the Alaska range. This particular year we had 4 different spotting scopes in camp. Swarovski, Leica, fujinon, Zeiss. All were top quality with the big glass. We put them side by side. In my opinion and the other guys except the Swarovski owner said hands down the zeiss was clearer/brighter better edge to edge. I realize there are different models etc. also my first year there I was next to my buddy , we were looking for animals through our binocs. I am very good at spotting game, but he was always beating me!!! Finally I Sid “let me see your binocs” WOW!! He had a pair of 10x42 Leicas. I had a Brand New pair of Nikons. At first chance they went back and I bought the Leicas. NO MORE EYE fatigue. Thank you for the reviews. Like I said. This is my opinion. Can’t beat great glass (PS it will cost a lot……period)
💪
A very good review. Thank you.
👍
Excelente work I learned a lot!!
Mission accomplished!
I bought a Kowa 77 20-60x about 33-34 yrs ago, have not regretted it, mind you, it was only about 1000.00 ( about 675US at that time). As to the outside not being rubber coated, if you use the cover for it, it isn't an issue, as you don't have to remove it to use it on whatever you mount it on, just unzip it. Mine came with it incl in price, see they want about 135.00 cdn these days for it. It is heavy to haul around though, lugged it along in the mountains in AB & BC, used it in shooting comps and at local range. It's been faultless, hauled in a pack, in saddlebags, bounced around in vehicles, still does what I need it to do for me.
It’s a great spotter
Excellent informative review as usual. I appreciate the unbiased review. Is there a reason Leupold products where left out of the review?
Had to draw the line somewhere. I really wanted Leica in there too.
Now that we’ve established the baseline I think doing one off reviews and sharing how I think they stack up will be be easier.
@@MindfulHunter fair enough. Will be looking foward to the one offs.
Hi JAY, This is an excellent review. Very useful as I am in process of buying one only for gazing at the nature and the sky. Thanks for the time and effort. I would like to know what you think about the LEICA Televid 82. It was introduced in 2009 and is it being replaced?
Televid is a great option. Big fan.
Hi. Which one would you recommend between the Televid 82 and the kowa 88 ?
New to scopes. I hunt whitetails only, dustances 1/2 mile to 1.5 mile glassing. Typically I am level or higher than what im glassing. Should I get a straight model or angled? Seems like angled would be hard to view downhill or from a window?
Also, for low light, how much exit pupil would I need? Im really looking at kowa 99 or kowa 88, but eonder if they are too much scope for what I need? I wisj someone would make an 85 with a 15-60
You might want to look at the Swaro STS 80 with the 25-50 wide angle eye piece. I agree for your situation straight is likely more practical.
Would the weight discrepancy be corrected by removing the eye covers? Not condoning it, just wondering?
It’s a fair question but no. They weigh less than an oz.
Great showdown/review. I really wish you'd do the same for 80mm-100mm spotting scopes UNDER $2k! Lots of great glass here, but lets face it, most of your more average hunters do not have an extra $3k-$5k kicking around for a spotting scope! No doubt there's a performance difference in these price classes as was seen here, but I have to believe these still some reasonably good glass out there that your general audience can still afford. The Athlon Cronus G2 UHD 20-60x86 can be bought well under $1k and seems to have some promising reviews. Celestron Regal M2 100ED 22-67x100, although large, again seems to have some fans and way under $2k. Nikon? Many players in this space, but let's be honest, this is the market most of the more average Joe's can start to afford, and I'm guessing most of the sales take place in!
Don't forget the Athlon Midas UHD G2 15-45x65 currently on sale for $549 at Cameraland which is practically a twin to the lighter and more expensive $800 Maven version.
Defintely going to be doing more budget friendly optics reviews. I included an Athlon and Tract in the bino review I am currently working on.
I do not own any spotters but bought two Athlon binos a year ago. It is a long story how I ended up with three binoculars (one Pentax and the two Athlons) but best of the three is by far the Midas G2 12x50 UHD. I compared it side-by-side with Viper, Razor, Leupold, Zeiss, Leica and Swaro. It matched almost all except the most expensive Swaro and Leica. Even when it lost, it was not by much. Being an enthusiast and not a hunter looking for the best of the best, I am looking at the Athlon Ares UHD 15-45X 65MM. I missed out on a demo unit for $375! They go for about $650 which is a good deal next to some of the more expensive units. I have read a lot of positive reviews and it has been a best buy and bang-for-the-buck recommendation for some time. Based on my experience with the Midas G2 12x50, I tend to believe all the hype about the Ares UHD.
Have got a Swarovski 95mm stx it’s great. Bought the parts used no where near retail.
But my favorite was the vortex HD gen2 with the mrad eyepiece that took it to a 22x with T mil reticle. I sold it and I sure miss it.
👍
if you could get your hands on the Leica Televid 65 and 82 could you do a review on them??
Absolutely.
I know you said don’t go for the kowa 77, but I think it will surprise you. Obviously it will be a hair less on optical quality over 88 with fluorite but I would argue it’s less noticeable than one would think. You can buy the kowa 77 for $1995 today and it weighs 59oz. For backpack hunting that is is scope I’m taking every time.
I think that’s a completely fair statement. What I was trying to get across was that I didn’t want people to assume the 77 had the same glass as the 88. I do agree the 77 is a very compelling scope but I would gladly pay another $1k for that package with the fluorite crystal glass.
@@MindfulHunter kowa keeps teasing us with a 66 spotter with fluorite. That will most likely be an amazing backpacking spotter. Also wanted to say thanks for the thorough review. Very informative
There's a difference after dark and also under adverse conditions. Under ideal conditions they are hard to differentiate optically.
I've always thought Maven was a direct competitor of Tract Optics and the Tract Toric 27-55x85 cost $1497.00 before any discounts. How does it compare to the $2200.00 Maven? I would also like to see how the $999 Athlon Cronus UHD G2 20-80x85 stack up as well.
Both are interesting comparisons.
Great review
🙌
A lot more birders in the UK seem to have the swaro ATX over the Kowa 88, but when compared side by side I hear people say the Kowa is better. So is it that people want to be seen with the swaro? Or is it the warranty?
Can’t beat the brand power of swaro
Thanks for breaking it down to specific items so I could choose which ones matter for my purposes. As an ELR shooter and not someone that is going to take a $3k scope into the back country (like I'm Jeff Bezos or something), I ended up taking this information into account with other reviews and I found the Kowa 99 on sale for $3,100 and I think that's the absolute best performance I can get without jumping up to $5k.
That 99 is an absolute beast!
@@MindfulHunter I can't wait to try it. I was just on my first outing with my Desert Tech HTI shooting at 1 mile and I could not see anything at all with my little $200 GoSky. I figured, since I'm already in the hole $10k with this ELR hobby, I might as well spend another $4k so I can actually see how I'm doing. For my purposes the weight and durability aren't going to factor in ... just going to be digiscoping on a tripod on the ground while I shoot off a deck.
Where did you find the 99 for $3100?
@@Neltrono optics planet had one of their “blazin deals” on it. I was looking at the 88 but then I saw the deal for the 99 and figured why not …
Glass deep dive yes.
Big time chemistry nerd prepper hunter here, thanks. 🤓🤠
My pleasure bro!
Just got a Kowa 883. Looks like its THE last one lol.
Really need to compare the Kowa 773, I hear it is nearly as good as the 88.
Kowa 773 vs:
Tract
Maven
Athlon Cronus
Zeiss Gavia
Meopta
Leica
Great review.
Agreed. I really wanna look through that 77
They're nearly identical optically under ideal conditions. After dark and adverse conditions the 88 is noticeably better. Might as well go for the 55x series instead for the fluorite.
How would my humble Leupold SX2 20-60 x 80 compare to these heavywieghts? Once I pay down a few bills going to give serious consideration to the Meopta S2, the Kowa 88 and the Kowa 99, I love high end optics
Appreciate it! I need to get some Meopta glass to review as well.
Would love to see this same review but with 10x42 binos! Great job btw!!
It’s on the way…
@@MindfulHunter I may have to hold buying my next bins until you release this video.
@@Steve-iv5nn shooting for may/june
Great video. Let’s dive deeper into the glass manufacturing process!!
Thanks man. I’m actively looking for someone to come on the podcast who works in the manufacturing side.
Great news, I’ll be looking forward to it.
I'd like to see your thoughts on the Athlon Cronus Gen ll. I just got It and I'm loving it for the price. I'm a Swaro guy and I'm happy with The Athlon. Swarovski is the best on earth but OMG out of my price range
I’m going to work on a budget spotter comparison video
Dude you are all over it hitting all points
Thanks man!
Sir, I am confused about choosing between these two products. i.e. Celestron Ultima 100 or VisionKing 30-90x100?
Can you test both products? Or do you have any suggestions for me on which ones would be good?
please 🙏🙏🙏😟
Sorry man not a lot of help. I have never even heard of either of those.
Great review. I just purchased a Swaro ATS 65 non HD from 2003 20-60 eyepiece. I picked it up for $1100. I'm really debating moving it along and getting a late model HD version with the 25-50 wide angle lens. I'm already using the NL Pure 12x's which I'll be using primarily for spotting and using the spotter for verification. I'm kind of tormented about it honestly.
Can never go wrong with upgrading but maybe run this one for a season and see if it works for you. That’s still a great piece of glass.
Buy the Kowa 99 thank me later. Few dealers are willing to negotiate and sell them for $3000.00 free shipping and no tax . I actually started with an STS 80 Swaro.
@@commonsense5709 Way too heavy for backpack hunting. I like the look of the 77 though. I did get my hands on a late model HD STS 65 with the 25-50 eyepiece and the difference between it and the other scope is considerable, not because of the HD but because of the eyepiece.
@@torreyintahoe The Kowa 55x weighs only 28oz IIRC and has fluorite glass.
@@commonsense5709 Yeah, it's a pretty nice looking unit. I'm sure it's hard to beat for the weight.
J, question and no worries I will understand the outcome. I have been shopping for a spotting scope for a little over a year. And I keep running into the wall with what I want to ask. A Spotting scope for me is not as important as my rifle scope. If the rifle scope is 3K or more it is what it is. I have to use it. The spotting scope for me is a tool to be able to see the shot on target if possible. Like for example shooting F Class or FTR Class competition. Your review was spot on and perfect. Now I respect the truth and the reality. Based on your review and all the catorgories you went through. I understand you can't review 100 scopes. But you still have lots of experiance. Honestly based on your review and your knowledge would you have to say. If the vortex scored in last place. There is really nothing out there that you can say or have heard of that can even remotely stand on the same street as these 6 scopes. That would fall in a $600 or less catagory?? Reason I ask is there are many things out there $600 or less. And I don't want to by 6 of them over time because they suck intead of just paying $3600 one time and not $600 six times. THANKS!!!!
I would not personally buy a spotting scope for $600. However, I have no idea what people use in the competitions your mention. Maybe the needs are drastically different.
@@MindfulHunter thank you, I appreciate it. No, your 100% spot on.
I rarely see anyone without a Kowa. Of course there are different models but all over $1500
Again this is really helpful
You get what you pay for bottom line
A buddy recently bought a SVBONY SA 401 APO (their current top of the line model) for under $380 with $280 off Amazon discount at checkout which is still currently valid. He compared to to a G1 Vortex Razor (the one that was recently on clearance for $750) and G2 Athlon Cronus UHD on sale for $849 and he said the SVBONY was incredibly close and practically mostly tied at only a fraction of their price.
Just bought a Swarovski STS HD 65 25-50W , always got buy with the Geovids, but thought i would try a spotting scope to help me on an ibex hunt to judge trophy size to save my legs a bit
Great spotter!
Great comprehensive review. Can you also review rangefinders?
Definitely on the list!
@@MindfulHunter I have a Vortex Ranger 1800 I can loan you to help with the review.
Trouble with eye relief is different manufactures measure it differently so it is tricky.
Great review though.
Thanks man. Appreciate that.
I have the kowa tan-884. It’s ridiculously good. I came from the vortex razor, also good but the kowa smokes it in overall image.
I just picked up the new kowa 66. Can’t wait to get it out.
Checking in before the actual reviews start. I own the Vortex, no way it wins. For some reason I’m real curious how the maven stacks up though.
Well heads up I screwed up the price of the maven but other than that everything else is bang on. Read the description for the update.
Having a cl curio 7x21 and SCL 8x42 for hunting and birding, but no spotting scope yet. Will buy one this year and Kowa or swaro is the question. Have glasses and that may tip over for swaro with 20mm ER, but have not decided yet. Not able to get to a shop and test. unfortunately. Anybody used kowa 88 with glasses and any comments?
I’ll ask around.
Good review. You keep saying the Maven is $3000, but I just pulled up their website and it's listed at $2200.
Well shit. I looked up that price multiple times. Turns out the Maven site was converting it into CAD as I’m in Canada but doesn’t list the currency so I had no way of knowing. Thanks for the clarification. I’ll make a note in the description. It definitely makes it more of a competitor against the Gavia but going back over the figures with that new info the Zeiss still comes out on top.
Description is now updated. Thanks again for the clarification.
@@MindfulHunter No problem
Relatively new to the channel, and I have been devouring everything you've put out! I love it! This is a review that's been needed for a while. Good job! Keep it up. I know what I'm buying here soon!
@@Jake_Ands awesome! Glad it was helpful.
I would love to see how the tract toric stacks up against the kowa. I have their 12.5x50mm binocular and love them.
Trying to put my hands on one now. Binos too.
That would be killer. I doubt it could hang with the Swarovski or kowa, but it would be really interesting to see Tract vs Maven.
@@jackwagon1798 that’s my question as well.
The Kowa will literally spank the Tract Toric, they're apples to oranges not even in the same league. Their Toric binoculars and rifle scopes are great but unfortunately their spotting scope isn't that great. The much cheaper (currently on sale at Cameraland for $849) Chinese Athlon Cronus UHD G2 is better than the Tract Toric spotter.
The expensive Maven with fluorite glass is also apples to oranges not even in the same league as the Tract Toric.
Can anyone tell me if there are duties when buying a Maven in Canada?
I would assume so. If it crossed the border you can get dinged. And they all come from the states.
I do not own any of these scopes as they are all out of my budget range and as an enthusiast I do not have a "need" for one of these scopes. With that said, I do "want" one and will get it sooner or later. However, I know good glass when I see it as I am a photographer with some pricy zoom lenses as they are required for my work. I had a chance to try the Vortex's old and new Razors at my local retailer, I thought the new Razor was noticeably brighter at all focal lengths. I also spoke to a hunter at the store who owns the Razor 85 and loves it. Is Swaro three times better than the Vortex? I highly doubt it. I have seen tons of praises for the Kowa's offerings but then again they are in the high tier price category as well. I also tried the Vortex Diamondback 85, something I could afford. It is priced very low ($500). The sharpness is there but in brightness it is no match for the Razor. So I am saving up for the Razor.
Hope it works out well for ya
@@MindfulHunter Thank you. Great comparison BTW. I would love to own a Swaro or a Kowa but my application (enthusiast) points to a lighter on the wallet option. I am wondering if in your next comparison test you could add something from the budget category to see how they stack up against the elites. I own a Pentax 10x42 and I have purchased two Athlon binoculars, Neos 10x42 at $110 and Midas G2 12x50 at $360 and compared them to Leica, Swaro, Razor and Zeiss and the $350 12x50 Midas G2 is right up there with the best of the best. I am wondering how their Ares and Cronus spotters would fare against the elites. Just wondering. Thanks again. Great video.
A truly non biased review is for items actually bought with your own money straight out of your own pocket. Just my own personal opinion.
Gonna disagree with you. If there are no incentives at play I think it’s quite reasonable to stay bias free.
This is awesome! I would consider these the heavier weight spotters and would love to see a light and a mid weight reviews as well
It’s almost like you read my mind 💪
I was on the argon band wagon for a while as well. But there is a reason Swarovski and Kowa are using nitrogen.And it is definetly not the cost of the gas. They know something that vortex does not.
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You didn't tell me what I wanted to hear😂 Jk I have a maven S1A and very much enjoy it... Awesome review very very informative.
At the end of the day bro if you love your gear and it works for you that’s all that matter. I will say, if I hadn’t misunderstood the price and I knew that it was 2200 USD I would’ve made a stronger recommendation for that scope. I’d say, depending on your tastes, you could tie the Zeiss conquest, with the maven for the best budget option. I personally like the extra 10 X zoom on the Zeiss, but your hard-pressed to beat the aesthetics of the maven.
Your absolutely correct. I wish the zoom was more, and am happy at the end of the day still.... but your video was very well put together and would have made my decision different... Thanks!
If the Maven is $1950, would that bumb it up to editors choice?
Absolutely impacts the results. I had an error in my pricing during the video. I updated the description with my current thoughts.
Another homerun Jay
Thank you sir!
Kowa sells a 1000x more spotters to birders than hunters, why should they rubberize a scope to appease a small segment of their market? I love your reviews, but you really spoke out of hand on the 77.
I feel Zeiss focuses just as heavily on the border market and they cost their scope. And all I was trying to stress with the 77 was that to not be confused and assume it had the same glass as the 88. That being said, in that price range I think the 77 may be unbeatable.
I have the stay on case for the kowa 88... it's nice. Makes the not being rubberized a non issue.
This comment makes no sense.
Both users would benefit from a rubberized outer shell.
Where’d you buy the maven for 3k it’s only 2200
I updated the description about this. When you view the website from Canada it shows prices in CAD but does not indicate denomination so you have no way of knowing it’s converting into your country’s funds. Still my mistake though.
Understandable. Since it’s only 2200 would the maven jump ahead of the conquest? I’m actually curious because I’m getting a spotter soon and don’t want to regret getting one. I horn hunt and need some good glass because I sit behind glass for a couple hours sometimes
@@colecash7496 I definitely would have ranked it higher. Prolly a toss up between that and the Conquest for the budget option. I think the Zeiss has slightly better glass and a little more zoom but the maven has better build and ergonomics.
Any plans for a 65mm spotter breakdown?
Later in the year for sure.
@@MindfulHunterAwesome 👍
Would’ve been nice to include the Meopta S2
Agreed
Should be called based reviews 🙌
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I feel you on the weight lies
So unnecessary
The Kowa is Fluorite Crystal not Fluoride .The Zeiss Harpia does not use HT glass in the objective only in the prism,glass containing fluoride eons is used in the objective.
Appreciate the clarity. If I said fluoride in regards to the kowa that was a mistake I meant fluorite crystal. However the info on the Zeiss is news to me. Would you rate the glass containing fluoride eons as lower or high quality than the HT?
@@MindfulHunter
Higher,some say just about on par with fluorite crystal.
@@peterbowler6524 man you seem to really know your glass. Is this a hobby or professional interest. And thanks for taking the time to add input.
25k? Is that the full budget! You low balling. I got that much in 22s.
🤣
@@MindfulHunter 😂
For anyone looking for great glass. And best product. Just get the Canon 18x50 IS binos. And you can ditch that pricyey tripod all together.
🤣🤣🤣 good luck hand holding 18’s.
@@MindfulHunter they are image stabilization binos. You can be rocking and rolling in 6' seas and have no shake. Lol.
Shame the Leica APO Televid is not in the list.
Agreed. Tried to get one and no one had supply at the time.
No idea why anyone would choose to buy a Maven for $2200 which is only 50x instead of saving up for a Kowa 88 series or why anyone would buy a Zeiss 95 over a Kowa 99 series which is probably the best spotter that money can possibly buy regardless of price. They can be bought for $3000 - $3300 with or without free shipping and with or without tax depending on which price friendly dealer you call over the phone to negotiate better prices.
To each their own
Warranty: I think Kowa is a limited lifetime warranty, not 10 year
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While I appreciate the depth with which you go to review these scopes... i feel like there was a little bit too much emphasis put on the design transparency of each company. This would be like someone being critical of apple for their severe lack of design transparency compared to any other PC component maker. While that is certainly a fair criticism, it is just the way they have chosen to run their business... and in the case of a company like apple, you can be critical of design transparency all you want... but I have never heard someone complain about the performance or quality of their computers or devices. Just because a company doesn't want to disclose design information that may or may not be useful to a prospective buyer (or in this case a reviewer)... does not necessarily have any bearing on the product itself.
Also, slightly related. Glass quality is controlled by industry standards, not exactly where it was made. ATI, the makers of the Tangent Theta optics, have discussed this before in various places. They use glass that comes from all different parts of the world so long as they have been source inspected and verified to the industry standards that they have specified in their designs.
Aside from the nitpic about design transparency and where glass comes from, the review was extremely thorough and I greatly appreciate the thought and impartiality that went into it. Well done!
You raise some really good points and I actually don’t disagree with any of them. I think what I was trying to get across was more that different companies use this lack of transparency for different reasons. Some of them use it because they have very high-quality highly proprietary technology that they don’t want other people to know about. Other companies tend to use it as marketing gobbledygook to cover up the fact that they’re actually using fairly low grade components. The problem as a reviewer is that if I don’t have access to the actual materials used I don’t know which of those cases it is. So, with smaller companies that don’t have see the brand reputation of Swarovski for example when they are very transparent about the materials that they use and they are using high-quality materials. It makes my job easier because I can give them credit for it. For example, the company Tract has a license for Schott HT glass which is used in premium Zeiss products. Now because I know that I can give them credit for it. Anyways, really appreciate the insightful feedback and I think it’s a very interesting conversation.
If you have 2500 bucks, buy the older swaro ATS80HD it's better than the zeiss 85 and is almost just as good as the new model. Trust me, I have em
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Oh no I'm never going to buy any more Zeiss brand products. I don't have the time nor patience to wait that long for the Zeiss warranty process.
I had no idea Maven has the same no questions asked lifetime warranty as Vortex even if you damaged a Maven on purpose is this true?
I had really bad luck with Bushnells and Athlon not honoring their warranty on their products which were defective straight out of their boxes.
Yeah it’s a tough pill to swallow.
The maven is $2200, idk where you got 3k.
It’s in the description
Zeiss invented coatings in 1935. T* coatings regarded by many as still superior!
Dropping knowledge! Love it!
@@MindfulHunter
It was kept secret until we captured a few pairs from the U boats we sunk. They were amazed at how clear the view was.
@@peterbowler6524 amazing
I think it’s funny that a “penny pincher” buys a 2000+ dollar spotting scope.. lol I think some ppls idea of budget of “value” is different then others for sure..
Definitely a wide range of prices in spotters. I'm preparing a 65mm category review and have includes some more budget friendly options.