According to tour manager Sam Cutler, they did not have two complete systems. They did have two sets of scaffolding for the stage itself and to support the Wall. That staging is what was frog-leaped between gigs. There was only one set of speakers and amps (plus some spares).
I dunno. In Grateful Dead Gear they talk about the actual making of the speakers and he talks about having to make all of those 14ply Finish birch cabinets, specifically mentioning having to build 2 sets. I've also heard Cutler's account.
That is correct there were not two full systems. That would have been prohibitively expensive. Two sets of scaffolding one actual WOS system. It's well documented, he's just mistaken about this.
I am not a Dead head, saw the band perform once, and I really enjoyed Lesh's playing. I am a sound tech , and what I really love was their constant search for audio innovation and improvement. Was Wall of Sound a success ? No , but it pushed the envelope, and, one might argue, was the predecessor of today's line array. Thanks for this video
My first Grateful Dead concert was 9/6/80 in Lewiston, Maine. An outdoor show, with the band up against the racetrack grandstand and the crowd on the infield. I was stunned at how clear and clean the sound quality was. The tapes from that show are stellar. As i continued to follow the band, i was never disappointed by the sound at the shows, I always tried to get close to the soundboard, I think Dan Healy eventually recognized me, and I always enjoyed the quality. You could hold a normal volume conversation with the person next to you, and yet, you could hear every note from every instrument, and the vocals. Couldn't do that at a Van Halen show, I tried. Couldn't stop the ringing in my ears for three days.
The sound quality is always better at an outdoor show than an indoor show. At an indoor show you get tons of sound reflections ie reverb, in the cavernous hockey arenas the band would play. In an Outdoor Show the sound leaves the speakers and travels in a straight line outwards and never bounces back onto the crowd and the band.
Oh you’re very correct about it being conjecture. The research I’ve done has some flaws in it. 1974 was a long time ago now and memories have a tendency to fade. As best as I can interpret, they probably had two sets of scaffolding, and probably cabling. There’s conflicting info out there and it’s a little bit tough to piece it all together now. Overall my takeaway is that they didn’t have two complete touring rigs like big acts do today, but the germ of that idea was there with the dead in the summer of 1974.
My dad was at Watkins Glen when he was 13. His siblings had to beg my grandparents to let him go, being the youngest of 7. They ended up ditching him and he had to find his way back to the camp, I think having to stay overnight at someone else’s camp because it was raining. The full story slips my mind. Cool concert though, Grateful Dead, The Band and the Allman Brothers back to back to back.
Actually, tubes with output transformers are more stable than solid state amps. Overloading tubes will kill the tubes, easily replaceable, but on a solid state amp it will destroy the output transistors.
Overloading tubes will make them distort to start with. And there's a certain amount of overload before that happens. Which makes them much louder than solid state
This is great info! I was wondering if you could elaborate on your signal chain. in terms of how you wire the fender pre-amp into the McIntosh and Speakers.. Also you said the 2300 could do 300watts in Stereo or 600watts mono. Do you run it in Stereo? Maybe an idea for another video? Thanks again for the great content
IMO - with the exception of Dark Star Orchestra, no acolyte GD cover band replicates the sound pressure levels that Garcia achieved with his Mac powered vertical stacks for onstage guitar amplification. Most bands I see in the bay area remain "polite," in terms of lead guitar SPL's. Having seen hundreds of shows, including the majority of the Church of Jerry performances (on average he played 3 nights a month for 8 years at San Francisco's Warfield Theater, I constantly find myself underwhelmed by the sonic impact of most pretenders to the legacy Jerry created. A set closing Deal with the JGB always seemed to exercise the true sonic potential of what he could render.
@@incredifunk I saw 15 years of live Grateful Dead. I have now seen 27 years of live DSO. I have seen them in tiny halls and massive outdoor venues. Sure - in reasonable sized rooms they don't push the same SPL's the Dead did - but in giant outdoor venues like Hardy Strictly Bluegrass in Golden Gate Park (before 75,000) they cranked it just about as big as the GD.
There's a lot I want to say about this topic. But the biggest takeaway is that McIntosh is totally uninterested IMO about the live sound industry. They build and market to home hifi. I consider this a slap in the face to rock n roll. Yet they ride the wave of live classic rock. Over the years I have to wonder what the grateful dead had to switch to as far as power amps because McIntosh refused to build pro gear made for touring. Their stuff is totally inadequate.
CRAZY LEGS CABS< for tube amplifiers you can't use 3 JBL speakers because the tube power amplifiers only work with 4 ohms, 8 ohms or 16 ohms, when you have 3 JBL speakers its going to give a total speaker ohms that is different. Joe Walsh uses 3 speakers in his tube amplifiers which is a Mismatch impedance which creates a harmonic distortion. But not sure why jerry garcia used 3 JBLs that is very unusual with a solid stage power amplifier Mcintosh MC2300, try to ask around as to why using a 3 speaker cabinet
According to tour manager Sam Cutler, they did not have two complete systems. They did have two sets of scaffolding for the stage itself and to support the Wall. That staging is what was frog-leaped between gigs. There was only one set of speakers and amps (plus some spares).
I dunno. In Grateful Dead Gear they talk about the actual making of the speakers and he talks about having to make all of those 14ply Finish birch cabinets, specifically mentioning having to build 2 sets. I've also heard Cutler's account.
That is correct there were not two full systems. That would have been prohibitively expensive.
Two sets of scaffolding one actual WOS system. It's well documented, he's just mistaken about this.
According to Healy, there was two. He’s quoted in Blair Jackson’s Garcia book saying so.
Have I never heard this guy's name.? But yet I hear Big Steve's name everywhere?
@@crazylegscabs5659Big Steve is never mentioned having two setups. And he had to deal with them day in and day out
I am not a Dead head, saw the band perform once, and I really enjoyed Lesh's playing. I am a sound tech , and what I really love was their constant search for audio innovation and improvement. Was Wall of Sound a success ? No , but it pushed the envelope, and, one might argue, was the predecessor of today's line array. Thanks for this video
Hey thanks for watching, and keeping an open mind, which after all is what it’s all about. ✌️
Would love a close up run down of your 2300 and in particular how it attaches to the speakers
My first Grateful Dead concert was 9/6/80 in Lewiston, Maine. An outdoor show, with the band up against the racetrack grandstand and the crowd on the infield. I was stunned at how clear and clean the sound quality was. The tapes from that show are stellar. As i continued to follow the band, i was never disappointed by the sound at the shows, I always tried to get close to the soundboard, I think Dan Healy eventually recognized me, and I always enjoyed the quality. You could hold a normal volume conversation with the person next to you, and yet, you could hear every note from every instrument, and the vocals. Couldn't do that at a Van Halen show, I tried. Couldn't stop the ringing in my ears for three days.
Was at that show too. Drove from Poughkeepsie, 3 in a 2 seater alpha romeo. Sound was incredible for an outdoor venue.
The sound quality is always better at an outdoor show than an indoor show. At an indoor show you get tons of sound reflections ie reverb, in the cavernous hockey arenas the band would play. In an Outdoor Show the sound leaves the speakers and travels in a straight line outwards and never bounces back onto the crowd and the band.
This is a bunch of conjecture.You're passing on crap you have no idea about. There were never two full PA setups.
Oh you’re very correct about it being conjecture. The research I’ve done has some flaws in it. 1974 was a long time ago now and memories have a tendency to fade. As best as I can interpret, they probably had two sets of scaffolding, and probably cabling. There’s conflicting info out there and it’s a little bit tough to piece it all together now. Overall my takeaway is that they didn’t have two complete touring rigs like big acts do today, but the germ of that idea was there with the dead in the summer of 1974.
My dad was at Watkins Glen when he was 13. His siblings had to beg my grandparents to let him go, being the youngest of 7. They ended up ditching him and he had to find his way back to the camp, I think having to stay overnight at someone else’s camp because it was raining. The full story slips my mind. Cool concert though, Grateful Dead, The Band and the Allman Brothers back to back to back.
This is a rad story. The 70’s just hit different.
Actually, tubes with output transformers are more stable than solid state amps. Overloading tubes will kill the tubes, easily replaceable, but on a solid state amp it will destroy the output transistors.
Overloading tubes will make them distort to start with. And there's a certain amount of overload before that happens. Which makes them much louder than solid state
This is great info!
I was wondering if you could elaborate on your signal chain. in terms of how you wire the fender pre-amp into the McIntosh and Speakers..
Also you said the 2300 could do 300watts in Stereo or 600watts mono. Do you run it in Stereo?
Maybe an idea for another video? Thanks again for the great content
Great suggestion! I think that’s a great idea.
It would be interesting to bounce some of your conjecture off of Big Steve.
IMO - with the exception of Dark Star Orchestra, no acolyte GD cover band replicates the sound pressure levels that Garcia achieved with his Mac powered vertical stacks for onstage guitar amplification. Most bands I see in the bay area remain "polite," in terms of lead guitar SPL's. Having seen hundreds of shows, including the majority of the Church of Jerry performances (on average he played 3 nights a month for 8 years at San Francisco's Warfield Theater, I constantly find myself underwhelmed by the sonic impact of most pretenders to the legacy Jerry created.
A set closing Deal with the JGB always seemed to exercise the true sonic potential of what he could render.
What about Stu's rig? Does that get closer to the SPL? I would guess it doesn't and remains in the "polite" range.
I've seen dark Star and I don't see them coming anywhere close to what the grateful day were pushing
@@incredifunk I saw 15 years of live Grateful Dead.
I have now seen 27 years of live DSO.
I have seen them in tiny halls and massive outdoor venues.
Sure - in reasonable sized rooms they don't push the same SPL's the Dead did - but in giant outdoor venues like Hardy Strictly Bluegrass in Golden Gate Park (before 75,000) they cranked it just about as big as the GD.
Any tips on changing the input to a 1/4" plug coming from a preamp?
All you need is a RCA/1/4" adaptor, super easy
Thank you
great channel, great content!
There's a lot I want to say about this topic. But the biggest takeaway is that McIntosh is totally uninterested IMO about the live sound industry. They build and market to home hifi. I consider this a slap in the face to rock n roll. Yet they ride the wave of live classic rock. Over the years I have to wonder what the grateful dead had to switch to as far as power amps because McIntosh refused to build pro gear made for touring. Their stuff is totally inadequate.
CRAZY LEGS CABS< for tube amplifiers you can't use 3 JBL speakers because the tube power amplifiers only work with 4 ohms, 8 ohms or 16 ohms, when you have 3 JBL speakers its going to give a total speaker ohms that is different. Joe Walsh uses 3 speakers in his tube amplifiers which is a Mismatch impedance which creates a harmonic distortion. But not sure why jerry garcia used 3 JBLs that is very unusual with a solid stage power amplifier Mcintosh MC2300, try to ask around as to why using a 3 speaker cabinet
Uh, well, when that friend is Bear you're probably tripping so hard it's good someone else is making those decisions! 😉
Thanks for posting this interesting video.
what tap do you have connected on the 2300 bro?
I'm LOVING your channel!!!
Thanks dude! Glad to have you along!
Thanks brother!