mikejosephine - Pool vac’s like other suction cleaners don’t use pressure…they work on the suction side of the hydraulic system. However, suction cleaners will not work properly at lower flow rates…but can program the variable speed pump to work a higher flow rates when you need to run the cleaner and other water features and a lower flow rates when filtrating.
Many thanks for the "real world" demo. I just tested my aging 1.5hp Whisperflo and it's drawing about 1.7kw. For those wondering about varying flow for solar, sweeps, etc., I will probably go with a VS-3050 and Suntouch control. The VF will compensate for increased head pressure in most cases by ramping-up speed, according to Pentair. I like the VS w/ Suntouch because I can automate my solar (and if the control every dies it's much cheaper to replace than the cpu on the VF).
The input power to the VFD (variable frequency drive) is 60 HZ, but the VFD reduces the frequency to the pump motor, which in turn reduces the speed at which the motor turns. The pump loads' torque and power vary with the square and cube, respectively, of the speed (quoted from wikipedia). This is why reducing the pump speed by half yields such a dramatic reduction in power required.
I know this video is old but it is still one of the best variable speed motor efficiency videos out there showing the true $$$ savings of these types of motors. The difference in cost between these types of motors and single speed motors pays itself off in way less than 1 year even at just 9 cents per kWh for electrical costs here in Houston,TX. No brainer!
Oskar Diaz De leon: Turning the pool pump on and off drains a considerable amount of power. It takes a huge spike in energy to get the motor going and the water circulating. To answer your question as to if it damages the pump to have it running longer the answer is NO it should not as long as you keep water in the pool. The Intelliflo VS+SVRS pump actually primes itself in intervals going from low speeds to higher speeds to help save the motor and it has a safety feature if the sucktion hole gets clogged the pump shuts itself off AND shuts itself off if it does not get enough water- saving your motor. Running your pump for more hours a day OR turning it on and off a few times a day should not effect the lifespan of the pump- assuming you take proper care of it. The old pump you may have WILL run for years but it drinks alot of juice. I am not affiliated with any companies i just work in the pool service industry, If you can afford it I would buy that pump for my pool. It should last just as long if not longer than any other new 1-2 speed pumps.
sounds great! but what does that low flow do to the pool surfaces? By throttling back the speed it is as if you are using a much smaller motor. You can get the same savings by using a much smaller motor.
You cannot arbitrarily use a smaller horsepower motor - it must be matched to the filter size and give sufficient life. Compared to a SS pump a variable speed pump is more efficient at every given flow rate. You can dial down a VS pump to EXACTLY the flow rate your equipment needs so there is no wasted energy. Additional VS pumps run cooler so less energy lost as heat. VS pump are nearly silent because of superior cooling and lower rpm. The VS technology is so dramatically more energy efficient that building codes in many areas are requiring them. Single speed pumps are outdated low end tech that have no future in the pool industry - you don’t even see them anymore at the trade shows
Thanks for uploading this video. This was extremely helpful for me in deciding which direction to go with making my home more energy efficient. I am in Southern California and I am currently paying around .35 kWh. I just purchased a home with an old pool pump and I feel like I am getting raked over the coals every month with my energy bill. Are there specific brands of motors that gain higher efficiencies? I am assuming since these motors are being ran longer they have shorter live span than motors that were being ran in shorter time intervals. Thanks again for the great video!
This was only a demo of potential energy and cost savings. In an actual application the salt cell is fine because your programmed schedule will always include a session of higher flow to activate the vacuum, heater, salt cell, etc
I noticed the video was cut right where you might have said what size of horsepower the black pump was. 80 gpm tells me it's at least 1 HP. I'd personally like to see a 1/2 HP Pentair Whisper Flo in the test against the Variable Speed. 1 HP is way too big of a pump for most filtration systems.
Nice demo. I wish the presenter had given the RPM settings of the variable speed pump. Sure, the point is better made with the flow meter, but all of us don't have those, and we would really need the RPM settings used during the different tests.
A given RPM does not translate to the same GPH from one pool to the next so that’s why the video deals with the GPH values only. If you have a VS pump the ONLY way to insure adequate water turnover is to install a flow meter. A good one only costs $80 and can be installed in 10 minutes with just a drill and a screwdriver. It will wickedl quickly pay for itself with energy savings
You are correct that most homes do not have 3 phase power but by using a VFD 3 phase power can be generated. What makes the VFD particularly desirable is the VFD's ability to drive a 3 phase motor at almost any speed. It is this ability to lower the speed that results in huge energy savings. Yet another by product of the lowered speed is the improved filtration and clearer water. The noise of the pump and motor is also significantly reduced. I use the TECO 7300CV VFD.
Yes, you'll have a clean pool. Residential pools have to be filtered once per day. A 20,000 gallon pool will be filtered in 16 hrs at 20 gpm. If you need to "up" the speed for pool cleaners or solar, you can program your system to do that.
This was informative thanks. I don't understand the variable-frequency comments (stated at the beginning and at 1:45) ? Isn't the pump always operating at 60Hz?
I have a variable speed pump... what I do is run at a low rpm or lowest speed for however long it’s needed to turn over my 18,000 gallons, I believe 6-7 hours. I then have it scheduled to run a 2nd time for 1 hour at 3000 rpm to run my creepy.
Start out running the vacuum for 6 hours a day and gradually dial that back until you see where it becomes inadequate. I do half the higher flow vacuuming during the night when electricity cost odd 50% lower
Hz is how frequently the direction changes in AC (vs DC) in North America. You don't pay for that, that's just how you get your electricity. What you pay for his how many watts you use. Lowering the speed of the pump lowers the amount of work it has to do and thus lowers the amount of kWh you have to pay for. In short he's showing you can lower the flow (and thus the kW used) and run longer dramatically decreasing the cost.
Generally speaking this is a very good video. My only complaint is the use of 25 cents per kilowatt hour for power. At least here in Florida, this power rate is more like 10 cents per kilowatt hour.
The RELATIVE efficiency and cost savings are the same regardless of what your energy company charges per kilowatt hour. Even in Florida it varies between electrical providers and increases over time
No. The lift isn’t a problem because at the beginning of each schedule the VS pump starts with a priming rate for 1-3 minutes. An SS pump only runs at wide open throttle 100% of the time do the inefficiency and noise are ridiculous in comparison
We run our pool pump 1 hour per day at the very most. We use a Polaris 9450 for 2 hours about every other day (depending on what's dropping from the trees) and a Solar Breeze robotic leaf skimmer. Our pool is always clean and balanced and we use very little chemicals. When and where would you need to run a pool pump for 8hours a day 365 days per year? Not judging...just wondering.
It’s not that you NEED to run the pump 24 hours a day but rather making the point that 24 hours of running a VS pump is equal electricity consumption to just 4 hours with an SS pump. Your system is very atypical - for most pools just one hour of filtration a day would be a disaster. For most systems 6-8 hours is a typical minimum. The industry standard is 3 complete volume turnovers each day for effective sanitization
Continuous filtration is more efficient than intermittent filtration so the bulk of the day the pump should run at relatively low flow. But your daily schedule will also include a few hours of high flow to activate skimmer, vacuum, salt cell, heater.
I'm in Southern California. My electrical rates are based on time of day. If I run my single speed pool pump between 10pm and 8am the cost is .12 per kwh in summer and winter. If I run it during peak hours it is .50 per kwh in summer and .27 kwh in winter. So why would I want to run my pump all day? And if I did would I still save money? What is benefit of running a pump all day? My pool looks great using current method with pump on 8 hrs every night. But it is time to replace my pump so I want to make the best decision.
@@kbob8424 I had a guy replace my filter and heater. He said even though my pump was old, it was working fine and I should keep it until it dies. He is an electrician and also moved my pool electrical panel to a better location. He said for my system and electrical rates I should stick with single speed pump.
@@sbearly - hmm doesn't make sense. You would think lower speed pump uses less electricity = savings no matter the electrical rates. But what do I know.
@@kbob8424 The value of Multi- speed pump is only obtained if you run it 24/7, part of that time at low speed and part at high speed. It pays off if your electrical rates are the same regardless of time of day, but not if you pay more than double during the daytime than nights as I do in SoCal.
finally someone asks the right question....and what exactly is the cost of replacement ( repair is not always possible) my guess is 3 times the price ( no rebate) of a single speed 1hp pool pump motor and furthermore single non variable pool pump motors can be repaired easily at minimal costs. Everyone wants gadgets until they break
The service life of a VS pump is longer than single speed because they run cooler, less motor strain at lower rpm and are more efficient at moving water. They have became the industry standard and parts are readily available. I highly recommended a VS pump for all replacements and new construction. There are quiet, highly reliable and save an average of $1000 every year in energy savings
Not at all a problem using the Kreepy Krawley with a VS pump. During the daily program the vacuum will run normally when at medium speed. When at low speed the water still circulate from the pool bottom through the vacuum. The problem with a SS pump is that it’s always running full blast and you have to partially close a valve to get the right flow through the vacuum - this restriction wastes a lot of energy. With the VS you can dial down the rpm so the vacuum runs perfectly without any wasted energy. My KK runs 6 hours a day at just 2500 rpm instead of the 3450 used by an SS motor. Given the increased efficiency and lower rpm the VS pump costs about 50-75% less to operate
Variable speed pumps are nothing new. Industry has been doing exactly that for years but it hasn't cost them anything even close to $1000 per pump. By installing a used 3 phase motor and a VFD, one can upgrade to a variable speed pump for a few hundred dollars. There are other advantages to reducing the speed of a pool pump. Better filtering which results in lower chemical costs can be one. The 80% energy savings is nothing to sneeze at either. Chemicals and cleaner is a non issue.
At that flow rate my skimmers don’t work nor does my water circulate and mix properly. Without redesigning the skimmers, drain, and jet placement the VS pump does not keep my pool healthy. I end up spinning the pump at full speed for a healthy pool. You would have to factor in the cost of a redesigned pool to capture total savings. Over 10 years it may pay for itself but I doubt the pump and control board will last that long.
If a standard speed pump can properly circulate your pool then a variable speed pump can also do it - for less energy and with less noise. It sounds like your pump is either not programmable or your program doesn’t include a few hours of higher flow rate to activate your cleaning features. Easily fixed by adding a programmable controller or learn how to properly program an efficient schedule
But what about the cost of a new pump running it at such a low speed? That should be amortized over 2 to 3 years and added to the 'cost of the new' system.
The entire cost of an VS pump is offset by the saved electricity in 12-18 months. Considering the pump can last for decades the savings over the long run are huge. While the majority of the day it runs at low flow there are also several hours when it’s programmed to run higher rpm to activate skimmers, vacuum, salt cell, etc
Smaller pump is noisy, hot, less energy efficient and shorter service life. A VS pump is programmable and infinitely adjustable. A VS pump is more energy efficient than a SS pump half the size. That is why horsepower between VS and SS pumps is meaningless - the relevant metrics are flow rate and energy consumption
20 gpm would do 1 complete turnover on a pool size of 28,800 gallons in 24 hrs. It would be interesting to see what the startup current on this motor is at each of the settings (20, 40, and 80 gpm).
Because the filtered water returning to the pool becomes mixed with unfiltered water the filtration effect is diluted. In order to treat 95% of the water the entire pool volume must be turned over THREE TIMES. You must also consider that in 2 inch pipe flow becomes exponentially less efficient at flow rates over 55 gpm. Both of these factors are critical when calculating a program for a VS pump system
Pretty sure that meter isn't measuring kw. It is an amp meter with no correction for power factor. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's just measuring amps.
Not only measuring amps but this guy is totally out of understanding any of the KW, amps, and not talking with the price for the electricity. One time is talking 25c/Kw other time talking 7c/Kw. And most people don't heave an idea about that. Do you know what is .25c/KW. If that is the price of electricity US economy will stop wright now. Who put this clown here? The video is from 2008, Does every know what the price of electricity was back then. Use to do geothermal at that time. It was 8c/KW. Where He pull this 25c/KW, don't know. My personal opinion is this guy don't where is up, where is down. I never put on any body dislike on you tube videos but this guy deserve it 100%. I am not talking about the variable pump here, it is true, it does save electricity..... Saving money is totally different thing which I will not even start discussing here. People with little bit brain can calculate for them selfs. Have a good one every one.
Tom - you are confusing the cost per KWH (25c) and the cost to run the pump for one hour, which does drop to 7c for one of his examples. And yes, in Southern California we pay about 25c for one KWH in the higher priced tiers.
It is indeed measuring power. You can search for his meter DT-3348, and see that he has it set to the power setting up to 40 kW. He has two probes that go into the box he set up, which probably measure the voltage across the circuit breaker. It's a little hard to tell from the video because he doesn't show his electrical setup or mention it. The clamp-on part is measuring the current, the leads are measuring the voltage, and the meter is calculating the power by multiplying those together.
You can’t change your pools “hydraulics” without digging up lawn and concrete deck. But you can easily install a VS pump that is infinitely programmable
Who the heck would construct a test system with a 90 degree fitting directly attached to a 3-way valve?!? And the pressure gauge is also too close to a 90 degree fitting for accurate readings. While I understand this does not invalidate the comparison between VS and SS pumps it’s disappointing a self proclaimed expert would make such installation errors
I just had the latest Pentair 3hp pump model 11056 professionally installed. I verified the settings with Pentair tech support. I did the math and do not really see the electric savings. The pump runs for 8 hours at 1300 rpm using 146 Watt/hours total 1168 watt/hours, next it runs for 2 hours at 2750 rpm 1265 Watt/hours total 2530 watt/hours, The pump needs to run for 1 minute at 3450 rpm 38 Watt/hours to get the Kreepy Krawley (Pentair pool sweep) to start. Total for the day 3736 Watt/hours. My old Hayward 3hp SUPER 11 pump was running 3450 rpm for 2 hours a day at 8.3 amps on 230V total 3818 watt/hours per day. Power savings of only 82 watt/hours per day with the new Pentair pump. I know for sure that I will not see any savings on my electric bill with all the other power I use. Either pump my pool water is crystal clear. ALSO: for a brand new model pump it's programed with a obsolete daylight savings time. Daylight saving time before 2007.
You will save $1000 a electricity over the first 12 months which completely erases the cost differential. And over the next 15 years you will save $15,000. Wouldn’t you invest $1,000 now to recoup $15,000 ?!?!? Easy decision when you do the math
As an electric motor/ pump technician, I'm not a big fan of VS pool pumps. They're really expensive and I can see them last maybe 5 to 7 years. Really by the time you get your money back, two more seasons and you have to spend a lot of money to repair it. If it is repairable. Because many times it is the electronic board that fails.
Many skimmers, suction side vacuums, salt cells, water features and heaters require flow of 50 gpm for proper operation. When adding chemicals an even higher flow is preferable to avoid settling on the pool bottom and causing surface damage
lol what do you expect to do at 20gpm? You cant run solar or pool cleaners and you wont broadcast any water or chems. You must use the higher flow rates which doesnt justify a 2000 dollar pump
The pump is programmable. So you run 3-6 hours at a medium speed to activate the vacuum and skimmers (filtration). Then for 10-15 hours it runs at low speed (circulation). The VS pump is more efficient at EVER speed and using the program and adjustable rpm you save $1000 per year in electricity. A VS pump is only $1200 compared to a name brand SS pump for about $600 - that cost differential is made up in just 6 months. SS pumps are such outdated energy hogs that they are being legislated out of existence
This demo caused a lot of confusion because he failed to explain that a typical daily VS schedule will also include several hours of higher flow to activate skimmer, vacuum, etc. All things being equal a VS pump is ALWAYS a better choice than single speed
mikejosephine - Pool vac’s like other suction cleaners don’t use pressure…they work on the suction side of the hydraulic system. However, suction cleaners will not work properly at lower flow rates…but can program the variable speed pump to work a higher flow rates when you need to run the cleaner and other water features and a lower flow rates when filtrating.
Many thanks for the "real world" demo. I just tested my aging 1.5hp Whisperflo and it's drawing about 1.7kw. For those wondering about varying flow for solar, sweeps, etc., I will probably go with a VS-3050 and Suntouch control. The VF will compensate for increased head pressure in most cases by ramping-up speed, according to Pentair. I like the VS w/ Suntouch because I can automate my solar (and if the control every dies it's much cheaper to replace than the cpu on the VF).
The input power to the VFD (variable frequency drive) is 60 HZ, but the VFD reduces the frequency to the pump motor, which in turn reduces the speed at which the motor turns. The pump loads' torque and power vary with the square and cube, respectively, of the speed (quoted from wikipedia). This is why reducing the pump speed by half yields such a dramatic reduction in power required.
I know this video is old but it is still one of the best variable speed motor efficiency videos out there showing the true $$$ savings of these types of motors. The difference in cost between these types of motors and single speed motors pays itself off in way less than 1 year even at just 9 cents per kWh for electrical costs here in Houston,TX. No brainer!
- Just curious, are you actually using a pump like this?
Oskar Diaz De leon: Turning the pool pump on and off drains a considerable amount of power. It takes a huge spike in energy to get the motor going and the water circulating. To answer your question as to if it damages the pump to have it running longer the answer is NO it should not as long as you keep water in the pool. The Intelliflo VS+SVRS pump actually primes itself in intervals going from low speeds to higher speeds to help save the motor and it has a safety feature if the sucktion hole gets clogged the pump shuts itself off AND shuts itself off if it does not get enough water- saving your motor. Running your pump for more hours a day OR turning it on and off a few times a day should not effect the lifespan of the pump- assuming you take proper care of it. The old pump you may have WILL run for years but it drinks alot of juice. I am not affiliated with any companies i just work in the pool service industry, If you can afford it I would buy that pump for my pool. It should last just as long if not longer than any other new 1-2 speed pumps.
sounds great! but what does that low flow do to the pool surfaces? By throttling back the speed it is as if you are using a much smaller motor. You can get the same savings by using a much smaller motor.
You cannot arbitrarily use a smaller horsepower motor - it must be matched to the filter size and give sufficient life. Compared to a SS pump a variable speed pump is more efficient at every given flow rate. You can dial down a VS pump to EXACTLY the flow rate your equipment needs so there is no wasted energy. Additional VS pumps run cooler so less energy lost as heat. VS pump are nearly silent because of superior cooling and lower rpm. The VS technology is so dramatically more energy efficient that building codes in many areas are requiring them. Single speed pumps are outdated low end tech that have no future in the pool industry - you don’t even see them anymore at the trade shows
It is an RMS watts meter with the probes connected to measure the voltage.
It measures True Kw.
Thanks for uploading this video. This was extremely helpful for me in deciding which direction to go with making my home more energy efficient. I am in Southern California and I am currently paying around .35 kWh.
I just purchased a home with an old pool pump and I feel like I am getting raked over the coals every month with my energy bill. Are there specific brands of motors that gain higher efficiencies? I am assuming since these motors are being ran longer they have shorter live span than motors that were being ran in shorter time intervals.
Thanks again for the great video!
You just have to remember that if using Pentair IC40, flow should be between 25-80 gpm, any lower may cause issues.
This was only a demo of potential energy and cost savings. In an actual application the salt cell is fine because your programmed schedule will always include a session of higher flow to activate the vacuum, heater, salt cell, etc
I noticed the video was cut right where you might have said what size of horsepower the black pump was. 80 gpm tells me it's at least 1 HP. I'd personally like to see a 1/2 HP Pentair Whisper Flo in the test against the Variable Speed. 1 HP is way too big of a pump for most filtration systems.
Nice demo. I wish the presenter had given the RPM settings of the variable speed pump. Sure, the point is better made with the flow meter, but all of us don't have those, and we would really need the RPM settings used during the different tests.
That was the first generation of VSP the old 4x160 and did not have the ability to read RPM's as it had no screen.
A given RPM does not translate to the same GPH from one pool to the next so that’s why the video deals with the GPH values only. If you have a VS pump the ONLY way to insure adequate water turnover is to install a flow meter. A good one only costs $80 and can be installed in 10 minutes with just a drill and a screwdriver. It will wickedl quickly pay for itself with energy savings
You are correct that most homes do not have 3 phase power but by using a VFD 3 phase power can be generated. What makes the VFD particularly desirable is the VFD's ability to drive a 3 phase motor at almost any speed. It is this ability to lower the speed that results in huge energy savings.
Yet another by product of the lowered speed is the improved filtration and clearer water. The noise of the pump and motor is also significantly reduced.
I use the TECO 7300CV VFD.
Yes, you'll have a clean pool. Residential pools have to be filtered once per day. A 20,000 gallon pool will be filtered in 16 hrs at 20 gpm. If you need to "up" the speed for pool cleaners or solar, you can program your system to do that.
Great video! Very detailed side by side comparison.
This was informative thanks. I don't understand the variable-frequency comments (stated at the beginning and at 1:45) ? Isn't the pump always operating at 60Hz?
Nice job! Great comparison
All good stuff but still need suction cleaner to work so what do you suggest average time-wise to operate suction cleaners?
I have a variable speed pump... what I do is run at a low rpm or lowest speed for however long it’s needed to turn over my 18,000 gallons, I believe 6-7 hours. I then have it scheduled to run a 2nd time for 1 hour at 3000 rpm to run my creepy.
Start out running the vacuum for 6 hours a day and gradually dial that back until you see where it becomes inadequate. I do half the higher flow vacuuming during the night when electricity cost odd 50% lower
OK... this video helped. Thank you!
Hz is how frequently the direction changes in AC (vs DC) in North America. You don't pay for that, that's just how you get your electricity. What you pay for his how many watts you use. Lowering the speed of the pump lowers the amount of work it has to do and thus lowers the amount of kWh you have to pay for. In short he's showing you can lower the flow (and thus the kW used) and run longer dramatically decreasing the cost.
Generally speaking this is a very good video. My only complaint is the use of 25 cents per kilowatt hour for power. At least here in Florida, this power rate is more like 10 cents per kilowatt hour.
welcome to California
The RELATIVE efficiency and cost savings are the same regardless of what your energy company charges per kilowatt hour. Even in Florida it varies between electrical providers and increases over time
Great information, Excellent video!
Very helpful info. Thanks!
Thanks for the detailed info
Our pump system is 6 ft higher than the pool and 25 feet away. Does this mute some of the benefits of a VS pump l?
No. The lift isn’t a problem because at the beginning of each schedule the VS pump starts with a priming rate for 1-3 minutes. An SS pump only runs at wide open throttle 100% of the time do the inefficiency and noise are ridiculous in comparison
We run our pool pump 1 hour per day at the very most. We use a Polaris 9450 for 2 hours about every other day (depending on what's dropping from the trees) and a Solar Breeze robotic leaf skimmer. Our pool is always clean and balanced and we use very little chemicals. When and where would you need to run a pool pump for 8hours a day 365 days per year? Not judging...just wondering.
It’s not that you NEED to run the pump 24 hours a day but rather making the point that 24 hours of running a VS pump is equal electricity consumption to just 4 hours with an SS pump. Your system is very atypical - for most pools just one hour of filtration a day would be a disaster. For most systems 6-8 hours is a typical minimum. The industry standard is 3 complete volume turnovers each day for effective sanitization
Is the savings in the pump efficiency offset by the drop in fluid flow through the filter. What filters work best under low flow conditions? Thanks
Continuous filtration is more efficient than intermittent filtration so the bulk of the day the pump should run at relatively low flow. But your daily schedule will also include a few hours of high flow to activate skimmer, vacuum, salt cell, heater.
I'm in Southern California. My electrical rates are based on time of day. If I run my single speed pool pump between 10pm and 8am the cost is .12 per kwh in summer and winter. If I run it during peak hours it is .50 per kwh in summer and .27 kwh in winter. So why would I want to run my pump all day? And if I did would I still save money? What is benefit of running a pump all day? My pool looks great using current method with pump on 8 hrs every night. But it is time to replace my pump so I want to make the best decision.
- what did you end up doing?
@@kbob8424 I had a guy replace my filter and heater. He said even though my pump was old, it was working fine and I should keep it until it dies. He is an electrician and also moved my pool electrical panel to a better location. He said for my system and electrical rates I should stick with single speed pump.
@@sbearly - hmm doesn't make sense. You would think lower speed pump uses less electricity = savings no matter the electrical rates. But what do I know.
@@kbob8424 The value of Multi- speed pump is only obtained if you run it 24/7, part of that time at low speed and part at high speed. It pays off if your electrical rates are the same regardless of time of day, but not if you pay more than double during the daytime than nights as I do in SoCal.
With running the pump twice as much, what is the life span of these variable speed pumps?
finally someone asks the right question....and what exactly is the cost of replacement ( repair is not always possible) my guess is 3 times the price ( no rebate) of a single speed 1hp pool pump motor and furthermore single non variable pool pump motors can be repaired easily at minimal costs. Everyone wants gadgets until they break
The service life of a VS pump is longer than single speed because they run cooler, less motor strain at lower rpm and are more efficient at moving water. They have became the industry standard and parts are readily available. I highly recommended a VS pump for all replacements and new construction. There are quiet, highly reliable and save an average of $1000 every year in energy savings
Will this effect the efficacy of the pool cleaner (Mx8 / Creepy crawler)?
Yes, skimmer as well. Those functions operate on the pump running at high rpms.
Not at all a problem using the Kreepy Krawley with a VS pump. During the daily program the vacuum will run normally when at medium speed. When at low speed the water still circulate from the pool bottom through the vacuum. The problem with a SS pump is that it’s always running full blast and you have to partially close a valve to get the right flow through the vacuum - this restriction wastes a lot of energy. With the VS you can dial down the rpm so the vacuum runs perfectly without any wasted energy. My KK runs 6 hours a day at just 2500 rpm instead of the 3450 used by an SS motor. Given the increased efficiency and lower rpm the VS pump costs about 50-75% less to operate
Variable speed pumps are nothing new. Industry has been doing exactly that for years but it hasn't cost them anything even close to $1000 per pump. By installing a used 3 phase motor and a VFD, one can upgrade to a variable speed pump for a few hundred dollars. There are other advantages to reducing the speed of a pool pump. Better filtering which results in lower chemical costs can be one. The 80% energy savings is nothing to sneeze at either. Chemicals and cleaner is a non issue.
interesting thanks
At that flow rate my skimmers don’t work nor does my water circulate and mix properly. Without redesigning the skimmers, drain, and jet placement the VS pump does not keep my pool healthy. I end up spinning the pump at full speed for a healthy pool. You would have to factor in the cost of a redesigned pool to capture total savings. Over 10 years it may pay for itself but I doubt the pump and control board will last that long.
If a standard speed pump can properly circulate your pool then a variable speed pump can also do it - for less energy and with less noise. It sounds like your pump is either not programmable or your program doesn’t include a few hours of higher flow rate to activate your cleaning features. Easily fixed by adding a programmable controller or learn how to properly program an efficient schedule
But what about the cost of a new pump running it at such a low speed? That should be amortized over 2 to 3 years and added to the 'cost of the new' system.
The entire cost of an VS pump is offset by the saved electricity in 12-18 months. Considering the pump can last for decades the savings over the long run are huge. While the majority of the day it runs at low flow there are also several hours when it’s programmed to run higher rpm to activate skimmers, vacuum, salt cell, etc
Since moving water more slowly saves money why not just get a smaller pump?
Smaller pump is noisy, hot, less energy efficient and shorter service life. A VS pump is programmable and infinitely adjustable. A VS pump is more energy efficient than a SS pump half the size. That is why horsepower between VS and SS pumps is meaningless - the relevant metrics are flow rate and energy consumption
I do out here in CA.
20 gpm would do 1 complete turnover on a pool size of 28,800 gallons in 24 hrs.
It would be interesting to see what the startup current on this motor is at each of the settings (20, 40, and 80 gpm).
Because the filtered water returning to the pool becomes mixed with unfiltered water the filtration effect is diluted. In order to treat 95% of the water the entire pool volume must be turned over THREE TIMES. You must also consider that in 2 inch pipe flow becomes exponentially less efficient at flow rates over 55 gpm. Both of these factors are critical when calculating a program for a VS pump system
Pretty sure that meter isn't measuring kw. It is an amp meter with no correction for power factor. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's just measuring amps.
Not only measuring amps but this guy is totally out of understanding any of the KW, amps, and not talking with the price for the electricity. One time is talking 25c/Kw other time talking 7c/Kw. And most people don't heave an idea about that. Do you know what is .25c/KW. If that is the price of electricity US economy will stop wright now. Who put this clown here?
The video is from 2008, Does every know what the price of electricity was back then. Use to do geothermal at that time. It was 8c/KW. Where He pull this 25c/KW, don't know.
My personal opinion is this guy don't where is up, where is down.
I never put on any body dislike on you tube videos but this guy deserve it 100%.
I am not talking about the variable pump here, it is true, it does save electricity..... Saving money is totally different thing which I will not even start discussing here. People with little bit brain can calculate for them selfs.
Have a good one every one.
Curiouse how many people order his service!!!? "Pool Technicians Inc".
What a joke, It would be better for him, not to open his mouth.
Tom - you are confusing the cost per KWH (25c) and the cost to run the pump for one hour, which does drop to 7c for one of his examples. And yes, in Southern California we pay about 25c for one KWH in the higher priced tiers.
It is indeed measuring power. You can search for his meter DT-3348, and see that he has it set to the power setting up to 40 kW. He has two probes that go into the box he set up, which probably measure the voltage across the circuit breaker. It's a little hard to tell from the video because he doesn't show his electrical setup or mention it. The clamp-on part is measuring the current, the leads are measuring the voltage, and the meter is calculating the power by multiplying those together.
Nope. He is using a multi meter. And he is using it correctly
How about a 2 speed pump. 1/2 up and 2 hp
2 speed pumps have fallen out of favor because VS pump is perfectly customizable to the system by varying rpm schedules and run times
i would just rather have a .75 hp pump with the hydraulics done right. i think that if u reverse bernulli's law it will also work better.
You can’t change your pools “hydraulics” without digging up lawn and concrete deck. But you can easily install a VS pump that is infinitely programmable
Who the heck would construct a test system with a 90 degree fitting directly attached to a 3-way valve?!? And the pressure gauge is also too close to a 90 degree fitting for accurate readings. While I understand this does not invalidate the comparison between VS and SS pumps it’s disappointing a self proclaimed expert would make such installation errors
I just had the latest Pentair 3hp pump model 11056 professionally installed. I verified the settings with Pentair tech support. I did the math and do not really see the electric savings. The pump runs for 8 hours at 1300 rpm using 146 Watt/hours total 1168 watt/hours, next it runs for 2 hours at 2750 rpm 1265 Watt/hours total 2530 watt/hours, The pump needs to run for 1 minute at 3450 rpm 38 Watt/hours to get the Kreepy Krawley (Pentair pool sweep) to start. Total for the day 3736 Watt/hours.
My old Hayward 3hp SUPER 11 pump was running 3450 rpm for 2 hours a day at 8.3 amps on 230V total 3818 watt/hours per day. Power savings of only 82 watt/hours per day with the new Pentair pump. I know for sure that I will not see any savings on my electric bill with all the other power I use.
Either pump my pool water is crystal clear.
ALSO: for a brand new model pump it's programed with a obsolete daylight savings time. Daylight saving time before 2007.
wow. thats amazing. the problem is the price. around 1500 $ besides the regular ones 300$
You will save $1000 a electricity over the first 12 months which completely erases the cost differential. And over the next 15 years you will save $15,000. Wouldn’t you invest $1,000 now to recoup $15,000 ?!?!? Easy decision when you do the math
As an electric motor/ pump technician, I'm not a big fan of VS pool pumps. They're really expensive and I can see them last maybe 5 to 7 years. Really by the time you get your money back, two more seasons and you have to spend a lot of money to repair it. If it is repairable. Because many times it is the electronic board that fails.
@DeegansTroop 20 gpm is plenty to run many above ground cleaners, solar heaters, and can easily broadcast chemicals. You are wrong.
Many skimmers, suction side vacuums, salt cells, water features and heaters require flow of 50 gpm for proper operation. When adding chemicals an even higher flow is preferable to avoid settling on the pool bottom and causing surface damage
Everyone
Who the heck runs their pool 8 hours a day?
8 hours is generally acceptable as average run time during the summer for a typical size recreational pool of 12,000 to 15,000 gallons
Nobody!
lol what do you expect to do at 20gpm? You cant run solar or pool cleaners and you wont broadcast any water or chems. You must use the higher flow rates which doesnt justify a 2000 dollar pump
The pump is programmable. So you run 3-6 hours at a medium speed to activate the vacuum and skimmers (filtration). Then for 10-15 hours it runs at low speed (circulation). The VS pump is more efficient at EVER speed and using the program and adjustable rpm you save $1000 per year in electricity. A VS pump is only $1200 compared to a name brand SS pump for about $600 - that cost differential is made up in just 6 months. SS pumps are such outdated energy hogs that they are being legislated out of existence
Awesome for overflow pool where sucking power of the skimmer doesn't matter much to move those debris from the surface of the pool?
This demo caused a lot of confusion because he failed to explain that a typical daily VS schedule will also include several hours of higher flow to activate skimmer, vacuum, etc. All things being equal a VS pump is ALWAYS a better choice than single speed
@ Craig. Im between 25c and 40c / KWh.