Here's the solution. Mark all the holes from the inside of the bracket. Mark an outline of the bracket from the exterior. Remove the bracket. Drill your holes perpendicular as needed. Remove the ablative bottom paint within the area that the bracket needs to occupy. Reinstall with 5200 or similar adhesive sealant. Bob's your uncle!
Alex, look at the bright side of removing that swim platform, you get access to transom and can drill those hole and 90* and the use those holes as pilot holes for the swim platform. Keep the good stuff coming buddy.
I made a template out of Masonite. I only marked 2 holes; far starboard and far portside. Then dry mounted the bracket with 2 bolts. Then Marked the remaining 18 holes using the bracket as a template. Then removed the bracket, drilled the holes, and then installed the bracket with 4000 not 5200. Installing with two bolts at first, made it easy to check for levelness and centered, etc.. And drilling the holes without the bracket in the way ensured that the bolts would fit perfectly perpendicular to the surface of the transom. I also heard stories of a guy trying to remove a twin bracket that had been mounted with 5200. They lifted the 18,000 pound boat off the ground before it finally broke the seal and the bracket broke free. So I was told 4000 would be plenty. Anyway, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Glad you are getting this project going. 🤙
Get some poster board and make a template from the back of the extension, then cut it out and tape it to the transom and mark your centers and just drill from the back
First thing I thought of. The angle was calculated with the square. Mark the placement of the extension first, then sand the barrier coat off , drill and install.
Hi Andy..Happy New Year! You are correct...always do what is correct! Of course the owner has to know the additional costs. We all wonder what makes people do stupid things? I guess they don't know the difference! Stay safe from the east coast of Canada 🇨🇦
I really enjoy watching all of your videos, even if I have no interest on the topic at hand. Just hearing how you explain things and your voice being easy to listen to makes it easy for me to watch to the end and learning a lot. I’ve had a lot of fiberglass experience on cars, but wow after watching your videos I realize how much I did not know! THANK YOU
this is why i trust you. brutally honest analysis of the transom situation. i would say just fill it with foam but the fact that you havent thrown that out there means its either a stupid idea or it wouldnt work.... probably both.
I completely feel your pain on this one. After all the medical stuff and the itch to get back to work, you probably thought this would be an "easy job" to start on. And of course, it's not but a can of worms. It's written all over your face, lol There's doing it right and doing it right enough. Right enough isn't your cup of tea. I look forward to seeing you do this without interrupting your healing.
You know what you are doing but I have a few things to keep in mind others might not have picked up on. 1* Bolts along the bottom edge are not nearly as important as the ones up higher because the torqueing when the engine is going forward is way higher than any load pulling back. You could likely use only 3/8 bolts down there and be fine. 2* The size of the bolt makes little difference unless you have a thick enough washer that will not cup or deflect under load. 3* The load on the top bolts is multiplied by the distance the transom extension is from the transom ( like a 2ft pipe on your 6 inch 3/8 ratchet you deny using when getting it replaced at sears) so it requires a lot higher attention to fastening hardware and procedure. 4* 3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 slow cure is perfect for this application as it remains flexible and will literally cause delamination between gelcoat and fiberglass before releasing its bond but as Andy pointed out that is a moot point if what you are attaching it to simply flakes or pulls off. 5* One inch of 3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 will easily cover every dam tool in your shop, paint a 60 x20 ft wall, attract anyone visiting the shop to touch perfectly laid uncured with finger while complementing on how it looked perfect, attract small children and pets, will avoid your just about trashed shop wear and go directly to your newest article of clothing and lastly will be on your shoe when you get in your truck allowing it to hang out on your brake and gas pedal for the next 3 years. We all feel your pain Andy Peace.
Just spray paint over the holes in the swim step with a contrasting color. Let it dry, and take off of swim step. Then you can drill them properly. Also note that almost all of the load is on the upper bolts, so the lower bolts are mostly to keep it sealed. In that case, the bolts being at about 30 degrees isn't very much of a problem, so just fabricate some slanted washers for inside and outside. Tightening the lower bolts angled will slightly increase the vertical load on the upper bolts, however it should be well within the stress limits of the all of the hardware.
It wouldn’t be a boat if simple things didn’t take 5 times longer than initially planned. I agree that the bracket coming off is the right thing to do. Make a template off the bracket and drill your holes. I’m sure there will be a few more hiccups along the way. Drilling transoms is never easy given angles and such. Keep up the good work!!
I was never happy with Armstrong brackets ended up designing my own and got it made for my boat. Did this all and saved time since there lead time is so long
Mark the holes from inside the platform and then remove the platform; I guess that is the plan at this point. Just drill the holes in the transom about 1/4" deep. Then use a drill guide over that hole, that will keep the drill bit 90* to the transom. Since you already started the hole by a 1/4" in depth, getting the bit/drill guide centered should not be an issue. If using a smaller bit and then a bigger diameter bit, make sure that both are used with a drill guide. Foam can be used in the platform to reduce the amount of water getting into it. Not suggesting that expanding foam be poured in as that would be a big PIA to remove down the road. Perhaps putting in piece of foam no bigger that the access plates so they can be removed if needed. Maybe some type of inflatable bladder but that may chafe over time. Once you get the platform off the boat, weight it. Put the scale under 1 end; total weight will be twice that. From there calculate how much buoyancy would be needed to offset the platform.
Debond (West Marine sells it) and patience. It will release the 5200. I would jack the rear of the bracket to create separating pressure where the bond is already the weakest. Start getting wedges between the bottom there and spray the debond in and walk away for 30 mins so it can work. Come back get the wedges in there a little farther more debond. Rinse and repeat until released. Once off your should have a nice template to drill the holes square to at that point.
Debond works OK but seems to evaporate and is stupid expensive. I cover areas under softening treatment with Saran Wrap to keep it wet as long as possible. Look forward to the next video!
Before you take that bracket off, get inside with some upsdide down marking paint and spray all the mounting holes. They will transfer to the hull so you can drill them after its removed.
The bottom paint probably uses a copper compound for the antifouling. If the bracket is aluminum and if as you say the joint will eventually leak, the copper in the anitfouling will corrode the aluminum bracket where it's against the paint.
Hmmmm . . . In this day of digital angle finders, there's a lot of flailing here. Use the DAF on the projecting leg of a square on the target fac2 and zero the DAF. On the other face to drill from, use zeroed DAF on projecting leg of square and read angle. Use this angle to drill guide block to be used to guide drill in boat. Also a heat gun can be used in at least some cases to soften 5200 & other adhesives to allow one pry apart/cut through the adhesive.
To aline a hole you can not easily access, get yourself a piece of pipe (1/2" black iron works well) or even a 2x4 and build two brackets on it long enough to reach your desired point. Then, predrill the brackets. Then, use the predrilled hole as you guide and you done.
When did any job on a boat go the way you'd hoped? Compound curves and angles and tight spaces will get you every time! Maybe I missed something at the beginning but could you not have used a square as a drill guide from inside the boat to get a perpendicular hole?
I was screaming at the screen, "You must remove the bracket to do this job". The angles would not allow you to do it correctly with it in place. I knew you would see it, but it is easier when you aren't so closely attached to it.
Might have been useful to describe the mission first up. What are the holes for, what attaches to them??? I gather that swim platform was attached incompletely and poorly when you got the boat? Is that it?
If you remove the transom to remove the bottom paint, could you make a template of the bolt hole positions and pre drill the holes before putting the transom back on .
Could you have drilled 2 outer holes or even 3 with a centre then run a line and mark it with a pencil then measure where the holes need to be then pull out the protractor
Excellent video Haven't seen a video in a while. How's the shoulders doing? Just a thought about the mounting holes Would it be possible to mark all the holes before you remove the platform, this way when it's off you can drill at the correct angle.
Be sure to check that the transom is in the right place before you take it off and drill holes. given all the other things done wrong with this boat it might be in the wrong place to begin with. For example, is it level to the boat. is it equal side to side. was it installed where the manf. said it should be with the engines your using? Just a thought.
I knew the outboard bracket needed to be removed way back when you started this project. I would lift the boat up about 1/2" by the bracket and let time and gravity do most of the work.
Too bad, its coming off, but using a laser level and tape measure might have been able to translate the lower outer edges to the inside. (Think surveying with a transit)
I think pulling that bracket is the smartest thing to do. A boat you can't trust can't be enjoyed, and God forbid something happened, guilt would be brutal. Build it right, enjoy it.
Spray the bolt holes in the bracket with paint before you remove it. (you've probably figured that out already) As fas as the bottom paint being applied over the topside paint? Well, that sucks. How are your shoulders 'cause it's all gotta come off.
Think it has something to do with the name. I'm all ways taking one step forward and two or three back. I'll give you a hint on the name, It starts with a M and ends with a r. (last name)
As I watched you I was wondering why you didn't simply remove the Armstrong bracket AFTER marking where the holes needed to be using an appropriately sized forstner bit. If it is stuck on with 5200 you are going to have a fun job. I hope your heat gun holds up. I also see a transom repainting video in the future. Ah the joy of boat work.
Damnit Andy that sucks. But at least your holes will be true. Yes debond will work- but i hate waiting. Try putting a scraper attachment in your oscillating tool and see if that'll get between the transom and bracket. Whatever you do- don't jack up your shoulders!
![Final Projects Before Painting the Interior. [Ep. 157]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/O6yYWG3lP88/mqdefault.jpg)
Here's the solution. Mark all the holes from the inside of the bracket. Mark an outline of the bracket from the exterior. Remove the bracket. Drill your holes perpendicular as needed. Remove the ablative bottom paint within the area that the bracket needs to occupy. Reinstall with 5200 or similar adhesive sealant. Bob's your uncle!
I was thinking along the same line.
Alex, look at the bright side of removing that swim platform, you get access to transom and can drill those hole and 90* and the use those holes as pilot holes for the swim platform. Keep the good stuff coming buddy.
I made a template out of Masonite. I only marked 2 holes; far starboard and far portside. Then dry mounted the bracket with 2 bolts. Then Marked the remaining 18 holes using the bracket as a template. Then removed the bracket, drilled the holes, and then installed the bracket with 4000 not 5200. Installing with two bolts at first, made it easy to check for levelness and centered, etc..
And drilling the holes without the bracket in the way ensured that the bolts would fit perfectly perpendicular to the surface of the transom. I also heard stories of a guy trying to remove a twin bracket that had been mounted with 5200. They lifted the 18,000 pound boat off the ground before it finally broke the seal and the bracket broke free. So I was told 4000 would be plenty.
Anyway, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Glad you are getting this project going. 🤙
How great it is to see you back on the Bertram, Andy.
Get some poster board and make a template from the back of the extension, then cut it out and tape it to the transom and mark your centers and just drill from the back
Just mark the holes now while it's still in place, remove the bracket and drill holes?
Exactly what I was thinking
First thing I thought of. The angle was calculated with the square. Mark the placement of the extension first, then sand the barrier coat off , drill and install.
Hi Andy..Happy New Year!
You are correct...always do what is correct! Of course the owner has to know the additional costs. We all wonder what makes people do stupid things? I guess they don't know the difference! Stay safe from the east coast of Canada 🇨🇦
I really enjoy watching all of your videos, even if I have no interest on the topic at hand. Just hearing how you explain things and your voice being easy to listen to makes it easy for me to watch to the end and learning a lot. I’ve had a lot of fiberglass experience on cars, but wow after watching your videos I realize how much I did not know! THANK YOU
this is why i trust you. brutally honest analysis of the transom situation. i would say just fill it with foam but the fact that you havent thrown that out there means its either a stupid idea or it wouldnt work.... probably both.
What ever you do, go easy on the shoulders, you’re still on the mend. Stay safe, good luck.
So good that you are back to solving issues…the right way…the main reason why I come here 👍🏼
Nothing is ever easy. Good call.
I completely feel your pain on this one.
After all the medical stuff and the itch to get back to work, you probably thought this would be an "easy job" to start on. And of course, it's not but a can of worms. It's written all over your face, lol
There's doing it right and doing it right enough. Right enough isn't your cup of tea. I look forward to seeing you do this without interrupting your healing.
You know what you are doing but I have a few things to keep in mind others might not have picked up on.
1* Bolts along the bottom edge are not nearly as important as the ones up higher because the torqueing when the engine is going forward is way higher than any load pulling back. You could likely use only 3/8 bolts down there and be fine.
2* The size of the bolt makes little difference unless you have a thick enough washer that will not cup or deflect under load.
3* The load on the top bolts is multiplied by the distance the transom extension is from the transom ( like a 2ft pipe on your 6 inch 3/8 ratchet you deny using when getting it replaced at sears) so it requires a lot higher attention to fastening hardware and procedure.
4* 3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 slow cure is perfect for this application as it remains flexible and will literally cause delamination between gelcoat and fiberglass before releasing its bond but as Andy pointed out that is a moot point if what you are attaching it to simply flakes or pulls off.
5* One inch of 3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 will easily cover every dam tool in your shop, paint a 60 x20 ft wall, attract anyone visiting the shop to touch perfectly laid uncured with finger while complementing on how it looked perfect, attract small children and pets, will avoid your just about trashed shop wear and go directly to your newest article of clothing and lastly will be on your shoe when you get in your truck allowing it to hang out on your brake and gas pedal for the next 3 years.
We all feel your pain Andy
Peace.
Just spray paint over the holes in the swim step with a contrasting color. Let it dry, and take off of swim step. Then you can drill them properly. Also note that almost all of the load is on the upper bolts, so the lower bolts are mostly to keep it sealed. In that case, the bolts being at about 30 degrees isn't very much of a problem, so just fabricate some slanted washers for inside and outside. Tightening the lower bolts angled will slightly increase the vertical load on the upper bolts, however it should be well within the stress limits of the all of the hardware.
Except that the bottom of that platform is going to get repeatedly hit with waves, reversing the load.
It wouldn’t be a boat if simple things didn’t take 5 times longer than initially planned. I agree that the bracket coming off is the right thing to do. Make a template off the bracket and drill your holes. I’m sure there will be a few more hiccups along the way. Drilling transoms is never easy given angles and such. Keep up the good work!!
I was never happy with Armstrong brackets ended up designing my own and got it made for my boat.
Did this all and saved time since there lead time is so long
Mark the holes from inside the platform and then remove the platform; I guess that is the plan at this point. Just drill the holes in the transom about 1/4" deep. Then use a drill guide over that hole, that will keep the drill bit 90* to the transom. Since you already started the hole by a 1/4" in depth, getting the bit/drill guide centered should not be an issue. If using a smaller bit and then a bigger diameter bit, make sure that both are used with a drill guide.
Foam can be used in the platform to reduce the amount of water getting into it. Not suggesting that expanding foam be poured in as that would be a big PIA to remove down the road. Perhaps putting in piece of foam no bigger that the access plates so they can be removed if needed. Maybe some type of inflatable bladder but that may chafe over time. Once you get the platform off the boat, weight it. Put the scale under 1 end; total weight will be twice that. From there calculate how much buoyancy would be needed to offset the platform.
good idea before u remove
To bad it has to come off, but at least you know it’ll be done right. Glad you’re able to get back at it. Looking forward to the next video.
Debond (West Marine sells it) and patience. It will release the 5200. I would jack the rear of the bracket to create separating pressure where the bond is already the weakest. Start getting wedges between the bottom there and spray the debond in and walk away for 30 mins so it can work. Come back get the wedges in there a little farther more debond. Rinse and repeat until released. Once off your should have a nice template to drill the holes square to at that point.
That's one I was looking at. The other is Un-hesive. Mixed reviews from what I've come across
@@boatworkstoday I have used both. Debond works better IMO.
Ordering tomorrow morning ;-)! TY!
Debond works OK but seems to evaporate and is stupid expensive. I cover areas under softening treatment with Saran Wrap to keep it wet as long as possible. Look forward to the next video!
Debond is a great product especially with 5200. Agree take some time to get it to work but it will
Before you take that bracket off, get inside with some upsdide down marking paint and spray all the mounting holes. They will transfer to the hull so you can drill them after its removed.
he wont have any marking left after the exstension rips glas off transom?
The bottom paint probably uses a copper compound for the antifouling. If the bracket is aluminum and if as you say the joint will eventually leak, the copper in the anitfouling will corrode the aluminum bracket where it's against the paint.
Invest in an angle drill, then go part way through with a bit cut down to 2" then finish the hole with the 4 1/2" bit
Nice to see you back at it Andy!
Hmmmm . . . In this day of digital angle finders, there's a lot of flailing here. Use the DAF on the projecting leg of a square on the target fac2 and zero the DAF. On the other face to drill from, use zeroed DAF on projecting leg of square and read angle. Use this angle to drill guide block to be used to guide drill in boat. Also a heat gun can be used in at least some cases to soften 5200 & other adhesives to allow one pry apart/cut through the adhesive.
To aline a hole you can not easily access, get yourself a piece of pipe (1/2" black iron works well) or even a 2x4 and build two brackets on it long enough to reach your desired point. Then, predrill the brackets. Then, use the predrilled hole as you guide and you done.
Windex is the best cleaner to prep for painting / sealing/ stainless steel and it's great on varnish wood work 😊
Lol!
The angle of the dangle plus the square of the hair equals the cube of the tube.
That's hilarious lol!!
Mark the holes before you remove it! Then after it’s out of the way you can drill comfortably from the outside before stripping the paint.
This is gonna' be great! TY Captain Andy.
I would take a marker and mark all of the holes before removing the armstrong bracket, then drill them while it's off.
When did any job on a boat go the way you'd hoped? Compound curves and angles and tight spaces will get you every time! Maybe I missed something at the beginning but could you not have used a square as a drill guide from inside the boat to get a perpendicular hole?
Some of the holes only had 3" of space to get the drill bit at 90 degrees.
90* drill attachment would also help.
I was screaming at the screen, "You must remove the bracket to do this job". The angles would not allow you to do it correctly with it in place. I knew you would see it, but it is easier when you aren't so closely attached to it.
Might have been useful to describe the mission first up. What are the holes for, what attaches to them??? I gather that swim platform was attached incompletely and poorly when you got the boat? Is that it?
If you remove the transom to remove the bottom paint, could you make a template of the bolt hole positions and pre drill the holes before putting the transom back on .
Pilot holes are Good! 👍
Man, that sucks! I feel for you!
Mark the holes, remove the bracket, fix the paint, drill the holes.
Then seal it properly and bolt it in place. :)
Could you have drilled 2 outer holes or even 3 with a centre then run a line and mark it with a pencil then measure where the holes need to be then pull out the protractor
Just mark all the holes before you remove the bracket and then drill the holes
i wish there was more start to finish builds .
Large projects are more about chapters than the entire book all at once :-)
Right angle drill to predrill your holes? Then when you take it off finish your holes off?
Going to do a shallow tap with the drill before removing the bracket and hope for the best :-)
Excellent video
Haven't seen a video in a while.
How's the shoulders doing?
Just a thought about the mounting holes
Would it be possible to mark all the holes before you remove the platform, this way when it's off you can drill at the correct angle.
I'm gonna try and dimple each of the holes before removing. If that doesn't line up then I'll need to make a template after the bracket is free :-)
Harbor freight flexible drill extension .
I built aircraft for 34 years. We used blind hole finder's to find holes.
Be sure to check that the transom is in the right place before you take it off and drill holes. given all the other things done wrong with this boat it might be in the wrong place to begin with. For example, is it level to the boat. is it equal side to side. was it installed where the manf. said it should be with the engines your using? Just a thought.
Gutted to see the title after you've put so much into it already.
I knew the outboard bracket needed to be removed way back when you started this project. I would lift the boat up about 1/2" by the bracket and let time and gravity do most of the work.
I had a feeling it needed to come off, I' was just avoiding it lol :-)
@@boatworkstoday I recall you saying something on that point in those earlier videos. Too bad it did not work out as well as you hoped.
Too bad, its coming off, but using a laser level and tape measure might have been able to translate the lower outer edges to the inside. (Think surveying with a transit)
How about a right angle drill
Unfortunately even the length of the bit won't fit to meet the angle needed :-/
does it come with template or 2 nd hand bracket ? make 1 an pull the mfer it wont stay in water for bottom paint to delam sooner
no template; someone else originally installed this bracket :-/
I think pulling that bracket is the smartest thing to do. A boat you can't trust can't be enjoyed, and God forbid something happened, guilt would be brutal. Build it right, enjoy it.
Spray the bolt holes in the bracket with paint before you remove it. (you've probably figured that out already) As fas as the bottom paint being applied over the topside paint? Well, that sucks. How are your shoulders 'cause it's all gotta come off.
Pop a couple of Crusaders in there and go fishing!
So what. You have to remove the whole transom pod. ?????
Woo, let's go!
Think it has something to do with the name. I'm all ways taking one step forward and two or three back. I'll give you a hint on the name, It starts with a M and ends with a r. (last name)
Hope the shoulders doing well …
They're coming along great now! Took a while to get to this point
As I watched you I was wondering why you didn't simply remove the Armstrong bracket AFTER marking where the holes needed to be using an appropriately sized forstner bit. If it is stuck on with 5200 you are going to have a fun job. I hope your heat gun holds up. I also see a transom repainting video in the future. Ah the joy of boat work.
tractor or fork lift red hot scrapers
Dito
Damnit Andy that sucks. But at least your holes will be true. Yes debond will work- but i hate waiting. Try putting a scraper attachment in your oscillating tool and see if that'll get between the transom and bracket. Whatever you do- don't jack up your shoulders!