How To Check Timing Chain Slack -EricTheCarGuy
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- If you have some strange performance problems like hesitation, misfires, or perhaps even a check engine light for a cam or crank sensor, you might want to check for timing chain slack. If the cam and crank don't move smoothly, engine performance will be effected. This test can only be performed on certain engines but it can be an invaluable tool when doing performance diagnosis. It's an easy test and all you need is a way to turn the crank and the ability to observe the distributor. No fancy tools required.
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Many mechanics I know have argued with me that this process of checking a timing chain is ridiculous or does not work, I say this is the best process to check the slack in your timing chain, it is common sense to see that this is the correct process. Most times I could tell you if a mechanic is worthless or decent just by seeing him apply a wrench to a bolt or by his ridiculously stupid comments, thank you for your post and explaining the proper process for checking a timing chain. When mechanics tell me that this is not the right way and then they tell me that they have been doing it for 30 years, all I have to say to them is you have been doing it wrong and that is a long time to be doing something wrong and not have figured it out yet, good job Eric.
This video is so incredibly helpful! I've used it twice now and diagnosed two timing chains that were seriously slacking. Thanks Eric the Car Guy, you rule!!!
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I used to have to type out this procedure a lot. Now I have a video! How To Check Timing Chain Slack -EricTheCarGuy
julchrist mbadinga Wadafuq?
Walter Black He said ''Mecanic is a job I'd enjoy'' It's french ;P
hey erick please activate the CC function, soy de mexico y sin subtitulos no le entiendo XD
Maybe do this with a Chevy Cobalt timing chain ? :) So I can see if mine is slack :P
Hey Eric, I have a 91 honda civic, I installed a new engine in it. So normally when you depress on the throttle pedal you could hear the sound match at the exact press time. And my car sounds milli seconds after the depressed of the pedal. What is the cause of this and what can I do to adjust that????
Eric, I can't wait for more Fairmont videos! Thanks for all you do. The value you bring to UA-cam is absolutely not appreciated as much as it should be. As long as you keep posting videos, I'll be watching/sharing them.
I'm about to do my first timing chain...I think I can do this your videos I've watched has helped gain confidence... thanks man 👍
very nice and clear demonstration Eric! we give you a nice applause from every technicians out there.. i deal with old classic TR6 MG vehicles sometimes at work and this will come in handy when it comes to diagnosing them for performance issues.. Anyways for anyone asking how to diagnose modern engines timing chain slacks.. you can use a live scanner like one of the bluetooth scanner that Eric reviewed one time.. i have an Elm327 scanner and i use Torque apps on my android.. it shows on Graphing> under timing advance.. you can only read by running the engine on idle but better on normal temperature after 5 mins.. you should see a about 6 degrees to 8 fluctuation and when you rev it should jump to 14 to 16.. it should be normal but again..its depending on what car you are looking at.. better check manufactures recommendations.. if you see erratic fluctuation on idle and the engines runs rough.. then you got timing issues.. better check these 4 things.. timing chain, crankshaft gear teeth and crank and cam sensors and gears... better start with the easy ones which are the sensors and the gears that it reads signals.. check them for everything before you jump to the chain since its a big job... :)
Two thoughts, to make the timing marks more visible, paint on some "white out" and wipe off the excess, really improves view.
Put a piece of blue painters tape on the lip of the distributor and mare the position of the rotor on the tape, makes it far easier to judge movement on the rotor.
Tony
Also, I have seen on GM vehicles that the distributor drive gear can be worn significantly causing additional slop. Can be one, the other or both. It's a good idea to pull the distributor and inspect it's drive gear. Happy wrenching!
This could also be indicative of a worn distributor gear. I had a friend that did this on a 302 and changed the chain. That didn't fix it, changed the distributor gear and it fixed it. Might be a freak problem for the dizzy gear to go bad but I just know it's possible
That is actually a very good comment..yes this test can indicate both chain wear and distributor gear wear. Gear wear is not as common, but still worth noting! Some engines are much more prone to distributor gear issues than others so its good to know some history on the system you are testing for sure!
Good to know, I wasn't sure how common it was. If only Eric would have said it in the video haha.
I hear ya..I have been pretty hard on Eric a few times with comments lol. Then I realized that if he covered every possible variable in every video, they would all be too long to watch lol. This test he gives is a valid method of checking slack on a chain with this type of system..yes there are variables, and in this goofy trade there always will be, but this vid only claims to show a method of testing for chain slack, and thats what it does :) Thats why comments are so critical on youtube channels..you get to learn lots from the vids, and you can learn lots from the comments as well :)
Yeah, true. I would think the best way to test the chain would be to pull the valve covers and watch the valves move. Wouldn't that be a valid way of doing it?
Anytime you can test something without having to remove anything else is the way to go in my books :)
I love the clock on the wall at the end of the video hahaha
Awesome diagnostic of the timing chain you got me on that one.
Much better with the camera man. This is the best work we've ever done......it's a real movie jack. Lol
I pulled the timing cover off a 2000 Dodge Caravan to fix a leaking o-ring. Replaced timing chain since it had a lot of slack. Engine now runs better and mileage has improved too.
love that you have been uploading more! Reminds me of old ETCG. Just kidding but glad that I see more of your helpful videos. Just wondering does having someone filming for you make it easier to put out videos more often?
I'm not really super mechanical, but if you were to just measure the diameter of the pulley and use that to calculate the circumference, wouldn't that be a sufficient way to calculate degrees with fix mark of your choosing around the belt?
Also, is there any reason doing this on a compression stroke TDC is the best? Slack is slack is it not, or do you need the resistance of the compression to aid in the test?
Thanks for your videos. You're super helpful!
Thanks Eric, had a misfire at @5200 with a big block chrysler. determined that the crankshaft would rotate 10-12* before the distributor starts rotating, yikes! Thanks again for the informational video!
Good old school tip..practical and still very useful. I recently picked up a 1975 Dodge B200 Tradesman van with a 360 in it. The guy I bought it off told me the timing chain was just replaced. The engine was nice and clean so I couldn't really tell one way or the other if he was telling the truth lol. I do trust he was telling the truth, but this video reminded me that it would only take me like 5 minutes to see if he was BS'n me or not.
Eric, your videos are SO helpful! Thanks for making them!
Thank you!!! This is time saving stuff. I actually didn't know that there was a way to test the timing chain. Working at the farm and my ole Chev. didn't start when I was ready to go home. Sounds like timing chain. going to test it now. Ole Chev only has 397,000 miles on it.
I did replace the chain and stuff, about...twenty years ago???? LOL.
One of the Best Technicians out there
Good job, Eric. Hope you find a new shop. Good luck.
I have a 90 240sx and they are doomed with the timing chain, although this videos about a totally different car this was helpful. thanks Eric!
excellent eric ...i'll check this on my MR2 tomorrow...maybe that why she want start after sitiing for 8 years.-your the best.
Thanks Eric, your videos are a great help! Best wishes to you and your channel.
Nice work Eric. Can this same method be used for a diesel engine if say I pulled out number 1 fuel injector after no 1 is at TDC and used a probe to watch for movement of the cylinder on a diesel common rail, twin cam type of engine instaed of the distributor? And is the degrees literally 7 degrees out of 360 degrees from the axis?
Would have helped with the observation of seeing the cap rotor move if the camera was stationary rather then have Brian moving around. None the less great video and appreciate you sharing how to check timing chain slack...
Great old school tip
If the chain has slack, get #1 on TDC on comp. stroke. on 0. Then mark the #1 plug wire on the cap on the Dist. with chalk. Lift up the Dist. and turn the rotor to #1 terminal on the Dist. body. Now turn the distributor body way back against normal rotation. Set the Dist. down and turn the distributor to normal position. Tighten the bolt some. Now set the timing. You are compensating for timing chain slack.
Great video, great. Way to troubleshoot runability issues! You Rock Eric!
Good test for timing chain slack, not an easy task for a DIY'er if you have never done one. Just changed the chain and gears on my Dodge 5.9 gas had about an inch slack in the chain at 192,000 miles....Fun Stuff
Great video and channel! Just one question, have you tried mixing the audio as mono? Listening to your video using headphones is sometimes difficult. Thanks!
excellent video sir!...i actually think my timing chain skipped a tooth,, barely runs at all now..was running bad with poor power... also when i removed cap and put on top dead center rotor was off by approx 30degrees
Hey,
Eric, I love to watch your video.
The audio in this clip is not as clear. Have you change your setup?
Look at this.. The future of Eric the car guy.. Swagga😎😎😎
you can normally hear a timing chain rattling if worn, also some of the slack in the dizzy could be wear in the skew gears
Hi Eric heres a good one for you. I have a 99 astro van 4.3 vortec.
I suspect timing chain slack and or possibly jumped a tooth.
I noticed a little more noise like clicking and rattling but very quite though.
I can't seem to get the distributor on TDC mark 6 on the dist. housing.
Distributor went bad replaced it had no issue. recently had p0300 random misfire checked ignition timing and noticed the rotor on the dist. was firing after TDC.
I tried to adjust to back on TDC but could never do it.
The thing that me me concerned and of all convinced and is when I turn the engine over by socket and wrench its smooth than it gets hard and a lot resistance and for a second it pushes back (like the timing chain is too tight and pulling back).
Once I put some muscle into it and get past the hard part when rotating the engine it becomes smooth and loose.
Is this due to a stretched chain causing it to be very tight and loose? And why im experiencing hell trying to install a simple distributor.
Great video... I've always had problems with Ford timing chains from the 1970's and 1980's. Ford used a nylon cam sprocket on their timing chain sets. These start to wear out around 70K miles, and fail around 100K miles. With this much slack, I would replace the timing chain set "immediately" with a steel timing chain set.
Using this procedure it is possible to test if the excess deflection might also be caused by a worn camshaft gear or distributor gear rather than just the chain?
My car bounces at certain rpms like it's missing a bit. I found the upper chain tensioner plastic had a half inch of plastic worn away and it was rubbing on metal. Bought a new tensioner which is in the mail. Can't wait to see if it fixes it.
Hi .Eric Nice to see you do this vid , just after your drag strip run ..lol . oh well spos your gonna junk the engine eventually so it don't really matter... camera man needs to cut down on the booze ,,swayin a bit there on the dissy part..lol...
I assume this is for engines that do not have tensioners? If there is a timing chain tensioner will it not take up some excessive slack and the chain/guides wear?
Do chains and sprockets need to have visible signs of wear on order to indicate the need to replace? Like scored/chipped teeth,etc?
OK first off love your videos they've gotten me out of a jam on more than one occasion. I've got an 07 ford escape 4 cylinder 140k miles and the battery is four months old. Its my wife's aunts car. she took it to a store left it running went in, came out went to pull out heard a pop from under the hood stayed on for awhile then died. I've got a crank/ no start. Got fuel checked pressure, fuel pump, and inertia switch also witness fuel mixture come out of spark plug hole when spark plug was removed just to be sure. I got spark, replaced spark plugs, tested coils and visually witness sparking, again just to be sure but still no goey. Removed valve cover, timing chain in-tacked and cam and chain all rotate accordingly. Tested ignition relay, tested continuity of position sensor connector to ground and the CPS itself is reading 470 ohms which I think is normal haven't done a voltage test. I suspect a timing issue but I've hit a wall on what to troubleshoot next. Any advice because I'm pulling my hair out and about to gouge my eyes out so I can't help people anymore.
Great video keep it up. But soon can you get portable curtains to deaden the echo in The shop. A shower curtain hanging from an engine hoist would help. Two in a "v" shape with the camera in the middle would be great. Keep them just off camera. Maybe hang a tarp or sheet flat from the ceiling. Stay dirty.
tbh, im not quite sure if i like these new videos when there's another person using the camera. idea is great and it should be better but for some reason it's not. the picture moves around too much and it's sometimes frustrating to try to watch these. another problem is the sound. first it's too loud and then it's too quiet. guess it takes time to get these right with the new shooting arrangements and all that. certainly hope it gets better. other than that - thanks for the info. very useful, as always. :)
Oh wow love this info thanks Eric!
Checking it with a timing light a little easier, especially when the distributor is rear mounted. Watch the timing mark with a timing light while revving the engine quickly, The mark will bounce around if the chain is stretched. that's how I found mind was badly stretched. When a timing chain is stretched setting ignition timing will also be a challenge.
Really? What late model distributor has springs in it. Its a proper test, Ive done it on many cars. You can also disconnect the set timing connector or vacuum source to cancel out any advancement of the timing.
Third photo down A-hole
www.superchevy.com/how-to/97438/
God I hate stupid people.
Did you write that? those are not Late model distributors, we are not setting ignition curves Thanks. I am doing it all wrong. You are so smart, spend some life off the internet and actually try something.
This procedure seems overly complicated. Just put a socket on the crank and turn it back and forth and feel for when the chain tightens up and starts turning the camshaft. Camshafts have a good amount of resistance and it can be easily felt - no distributor needed. Very quick. If it seems like a lot of play then measure the angle to see if the slack is excessive. This is also useful on some vehicles with tensioners where the chain can get so much slack due to stretch and guide wear that the tensioner at full travel cannot keep the chain tight.
Great! Thanks again. I love this stuff.
Does that procedure works with belts and if so is that 7-degree number same for both chains and belts? What are the the differences in diagnosing of there are any?
Hello Eric , could you please help me out on a question I have about mypost 79 Chevy Elco , 350 motor , I just got it it's running ruff at idle, but seems to run good when driving , exhilarated , I did a full tune up and nothing changed ? it doesn't smoke or any thing like that ?? Anything you could tell me would be very appreciated , thanks for your time , and great video's
This was VERY informative....Cheers Eric.
Hello, great video. I have a 3800 series 2 from GM. I don't have a standard distributor. How would you check for slack in my situation.
Would it be easier to align the harmonic balance mark at ----- 0* and cylinder at #1 at TDC. The Ignition rotor pointing at #1 on the disturber cap. Then remove the Disturber cap and rotor. Check pickup coil is align to reluctor wheel, if not you have timing slack to Gear/Chain. Reluctor wheel and coil > < have to align for spark if I am correct.
good vid Eric ,,, i have a question,,,, 67 pontiac 400 how does the timing chain get its lubrication ?,,,does it just get sloshed ? if so then how about the eccentric lubrication?
I thanks you for a great way to test for timing chain slack
I just noticed that you started on the 10 degree before TDC mark so that chain has 12 degrees of play in it. The second 0 mark is TDC the first one is a 10.
Thank you for video- checked my Jeep 4.0 1996 and its 9.5 out before the rotor turns.....I have no idea if that's still in the good range.
Elvis clock?
I have a 403 Pontiac engine do the rotor button should be pointed at the number 1 spark plug on the number 1 on the distributor
hey etcg, thanks for these information rich videos man i really appreciate ur work. what i wanted to bug u with was my 2001 gmc jimmy. I've replaced all of the emission related components trying to chase down this random multiple cylinder misfire. to no avale. however i can hear a almost tick tick tick noise coming from timing cover area. now this is causing the truck to have noticeable "wobble" at highway speeds. i can see my hand on the wheel kinda going side to side again at highway speeds. already replaced tires ,alignment etc.i have recently replaced balancer hoping that was the culprit but i notice while pressing the new balancer on i could actually move the crank shaft that the balancer screws into in an up down motion ever so slightly which leads me to believe theres a bad bearing somewhere behind that timing chain cover on that crankshaft. what do u think? i know without actually having hands on its kinda like asking to diagnose cancer over the phone, but worth a shot i guess.might be worth mentioning that there is no other code except the ever present random mis. truck has the 4.3 ltr 4x4 engine just hit 110k miles again its a 2001 gmc jimmy slt. thanks in advance if u get around to this comment or anyone else for that matter. whom ever may have some insight could feel free to gimma a text 443 796 8828 again i do appreciate any insight seeing as how i am not a mechanic by trade but i do most of my own repairs what with the inner webs & all.
Thanks this was really helpful I appreciate your time.
Does this 7 degree magic number fits on all "old school" engines?
I had an issue like that and I was unable to fix it , but it was on 4 inline cylinders european engine.
Anyway thanks for this good lecture.
You should rebuild the 5.3 from the tahoe and drop it in the fairmont. If i remember correctly you also have the old transmission and an ECU from when you did that engine replacement a few years ago.
The transmission is for a 4WD and no, I don't have the ECU.
And put a GM engine in a Ford?!?!?!? HELL TO THE NO!!! Do you not have any Shame.
Eric Borders
True, but it's not that uncommon to drop an ls1 engine into a fox body mustang which that 5.3 is based on. I was thinking if Eric rebuilt that engine, had that 4l60e trans rebuilt and got a tail housing for 2WD and maybe got an aftermarket efi controller to run the coils and injectors it would make a neat project and several really cool vids and probably be less than $5K.
Eric I'm not too positive about this but the 300ci has timing gears i'm not too sure if the engine in your Fairmont is the same? Also you could have play between the cam gear and the distributor gear right?
No, the Fairmont has a chain. Actually it's probably the nylon gears that have worn down that are causing the slack. As for the distributor, not as much as the chain. Any slack there would likely be negligible.
Very Helpful, I noticed that all of the engines I've over the years, the timing chain was the issue in a lot of cases, the rest of the engine had good compression and you could still see the hone marks in the cylinders.
I have a 1979 ford 460 that stops working all of a sudden once it reaches normal temp. Compression is +/-6 psi on all cylinders, I can see fuel dump into carb and spark at coil and at #1 Plug. Vacuum at idle in park is 17 and bounces rapidly. I did this test and my chain is about 7 degrees like yours. My question is could this be the culprit to my issue?
Eric, did the Fairmont have a sort of weird vibration as if two cylinders were fighting each other, or a maybe more accurately described as a pulsating of the exhaust note? Because I have changed my distributor, new cap and rotor, ignition coil, plugs and wires, and Duraspark box. No change at all. It only does it from 1800 - 2200 ~ RPMS. From one mechanic to another this has me stumped. Edit: Same 200ci engine in my car.
I prefer chains over belts any day. Of coarse with these modern engine having cops/coil pack/s this method does nothing but just happy to know that my current vehicle has a chain.
If the car ran low on oil and wore out the timing chain would there be a clicking type of sound or clicking at the top of gears?
Eric do you have a video where you explain or show how to replace a front main seal on 350 vortec off a 97 c1500.
+ericthecarguy I have a question for you, I have a 99 Corolla and the mechanic diagnosed my car with a timing chain that has slack. My question to you is, would I be able to by pass changing out the timing chain, guides and tensioner by just replacing the tensioner? From my understanding the tensioner would take out the slack and put my chain back to the proper tension that it needs. Instead of paying the mechanic 850 bucks after tax, I could do it my self for 25 bucks. What is your thoughts?
no, change the whole belt.and then some. it's too much work to have to do one little thing and then find out it's more stuff to replace.
I used to own a p71 with the 4.6. And it had tendency when I would go to crank it, the engine would not crank but the there was something that sounded like the timing chains whirring away like mad and it was so loud I was actually embarrassed. What do you think this is?
Would the same seven degrees be "useable" on a chevy 305 c.i., or is it only with your type of engine?
Great tip. I'm going to do it today.
You should do a vid on what hydraulic lockup is and what happens
Can you do this with a belt timing engine? Or its not possible due to the belt tensioner needs oil pressure?
What are some of the best company's to buy timing chain kits for a 2001 Dodge Dakota 4.7?
Very cool, thank you. Great info
Thank you for your time. Very clear and informative video. Didn’t solve my problem but it helped.
erice when are you going to work on new ford fiesta ????
What would happen if you turned the engine in the opposite direction? So say you turned it counter-clockwise instead of clockwise?
Would that 7 degrees also be applicable to a 99 chev 4.3 vortec ?
hey Eric, I had this grinding sound coming from the front end. I thought it was my brake pads on the rotor. I replace my pads, rotors, calipers and likes(it needed it) but I still had the sound. finally I located it and it's coming from the crankshaft pulley location. while the jeep was running I could hear it a little like sand rubbing on metal. I used a stethoscope and I can her some grinding. from the inside I only hear it when moving. rpm change doesn't cause it, only while in motion. does this sound like a timing chain problem?
I have a 2011 Mazda 6 I Sp and just put in shop due to this noise coming from bottom of engine, a weird rattle that can be heard when revving in N. When driving was barely heard. If you have any info or vids related to timing chain and or tensioner on my Mazda please leave me a comment thank you.
How many degrees of slack does a new timing chain have?, 350 Chevy.
Do you know any method of checking if the chain timing is off on a Ford 4.6L V8?
i have a question now this car is using distributor is easy to check timing chain slack, but how some vehicle is using plug coil no using distributor, so my question is how to do the checking without distributor. Thank you
There is a much easier way to check.
Just put a timing light on and look at the timing marks.
If the timing mark keeps bouncing around and will not be consistent the timing chain is stretched. Easy.
+Lucky Dog timing lights are kinda expensive
So are engine rebuilds.
$30 is expensive?
Lucky Dog that's easier said than done when you have excessive chain slack allowing the vehicle to only crank and not start. This method is the easiest because then you yourself can feel the slack and also hear any noise the chain makes when it tightens back up...
find a timing light in craigs list like I did or ebay, as last resort get a harbor freight one, not the brightest but adequate : )
is this motor chain driven? i know that the ford 240 and 300 straight 6 engines are geared drive, the crank gear runs the cam gear.
Thanks man this was helpful
I have a 2001 volkswagen jetta.
It staryed havimg engine knock
Then the check engine light came on.
Now it wont start. The noise sounds stuck and it wont crank.
How can I determine if the engine is dead?
Or timing chain.
Any advice appreciated till I save up for mechanic diagnosis.
White paint or nailpolish + toothpick = make a mark on the pulley and timing position indicator = win! (when using inductive timing light)
I reinstall the main timing chain on my 95 Maxima. As I rotate the crankshaft, some sections of the main chain get very tight, and some sections have slack. Is that normal?
I love your Elvis clock in the background at time 2:04 what can I get one that's awesome?!!!!!!!!!
My 1996 chevy 1500 is fouling the terminals on the inside of my distributor like every other day could slack in my timing chain be the reason for this? Truck has 270xxx+ miles
This reminds me of something. I used to have a mid 90s (don't remember the exact year anymore) Buick. Had a bizarro problem where when the engine got hot after about a mile it would just die. Then if you let it sit and cool for an hour or so, it would run fine again for about another mile. At first I thought it was an overheat issue, then maybe a sensor, then I was thinking that maybe it was an electrical problem with the fuel pump. Basically I went through a huge list of things that it could be with no success. Eventually I found out that when the timing chain got hot, the metal would expand and it would screw up the timing enough that the engine would just die.
very useful thank you for your video
My car gives rattle sound on engine start and idle goes away in high gears. But I hear it again while travelling uphil. Secondly engine has a delay from ignition to start. Is it the timing belt issue?
Great vid as ever, dude. Would have been hilarious if someone had walked in and taken a dump in the toilet behind you. :)