This was a fantastic video. It brought back so many memories from my childhood going on summer holidays from London to North Cyprus. I remember one year, whilst Ercan was being refurbished that we used the other airport in North Cyprus - Geçitkale. That is a military airport that is now being used by the Turkish Airforce. Turkish Airlines told the Turkish Cypriot government that it wouldn't survive if KTHY wanted to go it's own way. Watching your video it makes more sense now why it wouldn't last. So many of my relatives lost jobs and it has only been up until recently that ex-staff have been able to get lost wages back. There is still a KTHY building on the Turkish Side of Nicosia and up until about 5 months ago the current government were looking to create a new airline. The need for a larger airport, despite it only being recognised by Turkey, is down to the two biggest drivers of the economy, Internationally recognised English based Universities, which draws in students from all the world. Some of the universities are very impressive. Then the second, owing to all of them being closed down in Turkey, is Casinos. It is the Las Vegas of the Middle East with large hotels/casino complexes. So you can imagine all the bad stuff that comes with it. There are more Turkish Cypriots who live outside of North Cyprus. And a lot of the Turkish Cypriot diaspora get flights to Larnaca and drive over the border. They or their parents left during there persecution years between 63-74. Turkey then used it's rights as one of the guarantors under the Cypriot Constitution to Intervene when Greece sent a Junta to come over and force unification with Greece. That was when the Greeks were forced to flee their homes and now the Greeks and Turks live in the same neighborhoods in London. Just in relation to the flags on the Mountains. The basis for it was that the Greeks would have on their barack roofs during the 60/70s writing with something on the lines that it was a Greek island and that you wouldn't be able to have it. (Turkish Airforce would run sorties during the troubles and would see it) Essentially the flags are a response to that and in effect a big two fingers up to the Greeks. what you don't realise from the picture is that it is illuminated at night as well. So it must be pretty horrific from their perspective.
Wow thank you for such an insightful comment :) I honestly had no idea about either the universities or the casinos. Those will certainly be a big source of demand for flights, I am a little surprised that the North Cyprus tourist board hasn't tried to run advertisements to promote the "Las Vegas of the Middle East" as that would surely be popular with a lot of folks who are unwilling (or unable) to take the long flight over to Vegas. I am glad to hear that your relatives who worked for KTHY were eventually able to get their lost wages back (I waited five years for mine and got a cheque for 2pence) so I hope they got the full amount, or close enough :) When I was researching this episode I had heard about the government's plan to create a new airline, if they did go ahead and do it I would be almost certain that it would fail for a lot of the same issues that brought KTHY down. If there was to be a new airline then it should be "an airline within an airline" and a division of THY or maybe Pegasus, either way it would be nice to see some variety at airports :) I am wondering, is there a ferry from the Turkish mainland to North Cyprus as I have taken a fair number of Turkish Cypriots to Antalya from my base in Manchester. If not then maybe they were getting a separate flight, my memory is a bit fuzzy on that one. While I was aware that the flag was now illuminated at night I did not know the origins of it, namely as you said the Greeks painting flags on their barrack roofs. Sadly it is a complicated situation, especially in an area with such a long history going back thousands of years. I do honestly hope that it can be resolved but I fear that I won't see it in my lifetime.
Hello, I was cabin attendant/ chief at KTHY- CTA from 1992 sadly till the end 2010 🥺😭 I do remember everything except B-737/200 no memory about that aircraft. All other aircraft types I flew in this period. With my greetings.......
Finally, after 2 months: a new Grounded video. I seem to like your grounded series so much that i had watched all of the videos in the series. Thankfully this new one came, and as soon as i see the notification, i immediately clicked on it. I would like to see you produce at a faster rate, but understandably you are going to be a crew again, so just upload at your own rate. But regardless, i will keep watching your videos, especially on the grounded series.
Thank you, I really appreciate that :) I honestly didn't want to have such a long gap, I had a few issues at the start and then had to go to London for a month and problems again once back. While I know I won't be able to churn them out weekly like I did back in 2020 I will be speeding things back up :)
@@ExpoAviation No worries. Maybe do a Indonesian airline next? Or probably any other Asian airlines, but those are just suggestions for me, do the more important ones first.
I worked with a ex soldier in the late 90;s and he told me he was stationed there when Turks invaded a very informative video greetings from Scotland thanks 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
@@ExpoAviation no sadly, I took a different path and went into teaching. I loved my time with KTHY. Working for them was very classy, at a time when it was glamorous to be a flight attendant. only ever 5 star stopovers and door to door pick up and drop offs. I truly was Living the dream
I almost forgot that KTHY existed. I remember they had a fair presence at Stansted to lesser known places like Adana and Gazentiep, as well as the usual suspects like Dalaman, Antalya and Bodrum etc…
Yeah sometimes one that's been gone a while starts to fade from memory. Those flights would have all continued on to Ercan but went via different mainland locations to try and get folks on-board for those lesser known destinations, it was a better effort than having 7 flights a week all going via the same place the competition goes :)
Great video, as always Phil! My folks went to North Cyprus for a holiday in mid 80s, flying LHR-IST with Istanbul Airlines 737-400, then onwards on the sane aircraft after getting off & back on - showing the banality of the situation! I’m still hoping you’ll have time - given your new job (huge congrats) to maybe look into the disasters that were Monarch & TCX!
Thanks Lea, that's a great story and you are exactly right, it shows the banality of the situation. Hopefully things might improve but I am not holding my breath. Also a cool shout out with Istanbul Airlines, they've been gone a while now (doesn't time fly?). Rest assured, I am still doing the digging and note-taking on Monarch and Thomas Cook :)
Ercan is actually pronounced Air-Jan with the J said like jour in French but that's just me being fussy haha. Also at Ercan they are currently building a new terminal with 8 airbridges, some to accommodate widebodies and a new longer runway alongside the existing one. Pre pandemic that airport was pretty busy with around 40 daily flights carrying 5 million pax a year making it (unofficially) the 2nd busiest airport on Cyprus. Also on some pilot's route planning apps, ECN/LCEN doesn't show up, you look at Cyprus and only Larnaka, Pafos and Akrotiri show up, type in LCEN and it says not found.
Thanks for explaining that, I am normally pretty "on the ball" in getting the majority of pronunciations correct but let Ercan slip through. I will remember that though as the airport will come up in a future episode :) Yes I have seen the recent developments at Ercan, it is quite good. That's a bit naughty though RE the planning apps, if you're in an emergency and need to get down fast you don't want a perfectly good runway hidden from you just because of politics :/
If there's one thing that baffles me about the end of KTHY was the decision to operate both 737-800 and A321-200. As stated in the video, there was little to no common type rating except for the cabin crew and nothing beyond that. While I can understand that they wanted the A321 for additional capacity, they should've acquired additional 737-800s or perhaps wait for the -900ER. After operating various models from Boeing and Airbus and previously MD, you'd think the higher ups were done with their experimentation and stick with one manufacturer for the time being but clearly not. It was clear KTHY had a preference for Boeing albeit due to circumstances and not because it's what they wanted. But after signing off for 737-800s, it's a no-brainer to stick with one family of aircraft especially if you're a smaller carrier committed to acquiring your own metal and not just leasing out planes from other carriers. It's like they wanted to do what United did during the late 50s and early 1960s and go on a shopping spree for jetliners, which in United's case was the DC-8, Boeing 720, Sud Aviation Caravelle VI-R, and Boeing 727-100. While it might not have saved the company, perhaps if the fleet decision were more rational, they might've lasted a bit longer, but there were of course other odds stacked against them.
Your assessment is correct, though they would have had to wait quite a few years for the 737-900ER to come along, perhaps KTHY should have held on to their A310s a little longer instead of investing in A321s to cover the gap before the 739ERs became available. I think their mixed fleet strategy was "ok" while they were still effectively state owned, they were certainly going to struggle once privatised.
The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus just inaugurated a brand new terminal at Ercan. The Turkish Cypriots should definitely try their best to restart their national airline, even if it is smaller than Turkish Airlines and other airlines in the Eastern Mediterranean. The market is large enough to sustain it.
I think the hard part now would be to compete against the Turkish carriers from the mainland that have built a big presence at Ercan, you are right though the market is large enough :)
At 2:43, are you sure that's the wreckage of the TU-104A that overran the runway? The tail detached from the plane and the wings of the TU-104 aren't straight at all.
You are correct, there are several images of the TU-104 at Nicosia and it clearly has its tail standing upright amongst the wreckage. I'm not sure how this one slipped through nor as to what it is exactly, it looks like an IL-18 (and Egypt Air did crash one into the mountains on approach to the airport but this looks far too intact to be the same one).
Yeah it really doesn't look like a Britannia, one thought does occur though, perhaps since the occupation it was a Turkish military IL-18? It's plausible that they lost one there and there were little/no reports about it. Then again I don't offhand know if the Turkish military used IL-18s.
Frankly, the approach towards Turkey, which had to come to the island due to the pressure initiated by the Greek collaborators in order to destroy the existence of the Turks on the island, was a disappointment. Turks on the island experienced terrible events. Even though they do not respond in the same way to the behavior inflicted on them in order to prevent social peace from being disrupted, their experiences are still denied on the stage of history. The two nations have been living together in peace and brotherhood on the island and in this geography for centuries. Regardless of all the hate put out by politicians. I don't want to make the incident political, but when explaining such historical events, it may be healthier to approach it impartially, as befits the wonderful content of the videos on his channel.
Thank you for your input, I agree that impartiality would be the best approach, however as I point out in the video description I have lived with Greek Cypriots and that had allowed some biasedness to seep through - though I did manage to "tone it down" and cut some parts from the finished video as they were either inappropriate or irrelevant. I will admit that personally my knowledge of what happened comes from one side rather than both sides, I do hope that at some time in the near future we can see a unified Cyprus :)
Thanks Richard, yeah Donbassaero is a complicated one, their early history is almost non-existent and their ending is quite complex as they were effectively asset striped by a sister airline. I have got plenty of notes to go on now though, the biggest issue is trying to find the right timing given what is going on right now over there, rest assured I've not forgotten though :)
This was a fantastic video.
It brought back so many memories from my childhood going on summer holidays from London to North Cyprus.
I remember one year, whilst Ercan was being refurbished that we used the other airport in North Cyprus - Geçitkale. That is a military airport that is now being used by the Turkish Airforce.
Turkish Airlines told the Turkish Cypriot government that it wouldn't survive if KTHY wanted to go it's own way. Watching your video it makes more sense now why it wouldn't last. So many of my relatives lost jobs and it has only been up until recently that ex-staff have been able to get lost wages back.
There is still a KTHY building on the Turkish Side of Nicosia and up until about 5 months ago the current government were looking to create a new airline.
The need for a larger airport, despite it only being recognised by Turkey, is down to the two biggest drivers of the economy, Internationally recognised English based Universities, which draws in students from all the world. Some of the universities are very impressive. Then the second, owing to all of them being closed down in Turkey, is Casinos. It is the Las Vegas of the Middle East with large hotels/casino complexes. So you can imagine all the bad stuff that comes with it.
There are more Turkish Cypriots who live outside of North Cyprus. And a lot of the Turkish Cypriot diaspora get flights to Larnaca and drive over the border. They or their parents left during there persecution years between 63-74. Turkey then used it's rights as one of the guarantors under the Cypriot Constitution to Intervene when Greece sent a Junta to come over and force unification with Greece. That was when the Greeks were forced to flee their homes and now the Greeks and Turks live in the same neighborhoods in London.
Just in relation to the flags on the Mountains. The basis for it was that the Greeks would have on their barack roofs during the 60/70s writing with something on the lines that it was a Greek island and that you wouldn't be able to have it. (Turkish Airforce would run sorties during the troubles and would see it) Essentially the flags are a response to that and in effect a big two fingers up to the Greeks. what you don't realise from the picture is that it is illuminated at night as well. So it must be pretty horrific from their perspective.
Wow thank you for such an insightful comment :) I honestly had no idea about either the universities or the casinos. Those will certainly be a big source of demand for flights, I am a little surprised that the North Cyprus tourist board hasn't tried to run advertisements to promote the "Las Vegas of the Middle East" as that would surely be popular with a lot of folks who are unwilling (or unable) to take the long flight over to Vegas.
I am glad to hear that your relatives who worked for KTHY were eventually able to get their lost wages back (I waited five years for mine and got a cheque for 2pence) so I hope they got the full amount, or close enough :)
When I was researching this episode I had heard about the government's plan to create a new airline, if they did go ahead and do it I would be almost certain that it would fail for a lot of the same issues that brought KTHY down. If there was to be a new airline then it should be "an airline within an airline" and a division of THY or maybe Pegasus, either way it would be nice to see some variety at airports :)
I am wondering, is there a ferry from the Turkish mainland to North Cyprus as I have taken a fair number of Turkish Cypriots to Antalya from my base in Manchester. If not then maybe they were getting a separate flight, my memory is a bit fuzzy on that one.
While I was aware that the flag was now illuminated at night I did not know the origins of it, namely as you said the Greeks painting flags on their barrack roofs. Sadly it is a complicated situation, especially in an area with such a long history going back thousands of years. I do honestly hope that it can be resolved but I fear that I won't see it in my lifetime.
Hello,
I was cabin attendant/ chief at KTHY- CTA from 1992 sadly till the end 2010 🥺😭
I do remember everything except B-737/200 no memory about that aircraft. All other aircraft types I flew in this period.
With my greetings.......
Hi, thank you for your message, I hope you managed to find another airline after KTHY :)
Finally, after 2 months: a new Grounded video. I seem to like your grounded series so much that i had watched all of the videos in the series. Thankfully this new one came, and as soon as i see the notification, i immediately clicked on it. I would like to see you produce at a faster rate, but understandably you are going to be a crew again, so just upload at your own rate. But regardless, i will keep watching your videos, especially on the grounded series.
Thank you, I really appreciate that :) I honestly didn't want to have such a long gap, I had a few issues at the start and then had to go to London for a month and problems again once back. While I know I won't be able to churn them out weekly like I did back in 2020 I will be speeding things back up :)
@@ExpoAviation No worries. Maybe do a Indonesian airline next? Or probably any other Asian airlines, but those are just suggestions for me, do the more important ones first.
I've got my eye on a few from out in the far east, one or two obvious ones and a couple of surprises :)
this channel is severely underrated for its good editing
Thank you, I really appreciate that :)
I worked with a ex soldier in the late 90;s and he told me he was stationed there when Turks invaded a very informative video greetings from Scotland thanks 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I worked with an ex-soldier too, though he wasn't stationed in Cyprus at the time (He did the Falklands and NI). Thanks for watching :)
@@ExpoAviation same here he’s still working with us he was in the Welsh guard’s and different soldier from my last comment
Nice one Phil. I have 'Liked' the video before I have even watched it as I know the quality and research are going to be good:)
Thank you, I hope it met your expectations :)
It was better, well done, Phil!
Great video! Love your humour!
Thanks Ryan!
I was at stansted to welcome one of the brand new 737-800s. I used to work for kthy. I miss the A310s TCJCO was my favourite.
Very cool! We all have our favourites, was there a particular reason JCO was yours?
I was cabin crew for KTHY ♥️🧿living the dream
Cool :) Are you still flying now?
@@ExpoAviation no sadly, I took a different path and went into teaching. I loved my time with KTHY. Working for them was very classy, at a time when it was glamorous to be a flight attendant.
only ever 5 star stopovers and door to door pick up and drop offs. I truly was Living the dream
I almost forgot that KTHY existed. I remember they had a fair presence at Stansted to lesser known places like Adana and Gazentiep, as well as the usual suspects like Dalaman, Antalya and Bodrum etc…
Yeah sometimes one that's been gone a while starts to fade from memory. Those flights would have all continued on to Ercan but went via different mainland locations to try and get folks on-board for those lesser known destinations, it was a better effort than having 7 flights a week all going via the same place the competition goes :)
I never herd about this airline maybe it was forgotten many years ago
Glad to throw you a curveball ;)
Great video, as always Phil!
My folks went to North Cyprus for a holiday in mid 80s, flying LHR-IST with Istanbul Airlines 737-400, then onwards on the sane aircraft after getting off & back on - showing the banality of the situation!
I’m still hoping you’ll have time - given your new job (huge congrats) to maybe look into the disasters that were Monarch & TCX!
Thanks Lea, that's a great story and you are exactly right, it shows the banality of the situation. Hopefully things might improve but I am not holding my breath. Also a cool shout out with Istanbul Airlines, they've been gone a while now (doesn't time fly?). Rest assured, I am still doing the digging and note-taking on Monarch and Thomas Cook :)
Great show again...thanks
Thank you :)
Excellent video ~ Congratulations!
Thank you :)
Nice video. Could you please cover Ansett Australia please?
Thanks :) Yes I am slowly but surely getting through my research into Ansett :) If you are interested I have already covered Compass.
Ercan is actually pronounced Air-Jan with the J said like jour in French but that's just me being fussy haha. Also at Ercan they are currently building a new terminal with 8 airbridges, some to accommodate widebodies and a new longer runway alongside the existing one. Pre pandemic that airport was pretty busy with around 40 daily flights carrying 5 million pax a year making it (unofficially) the 2nd busiest airport on Cyprus. Also on some pilot's route planning apps, ECN/LCEN doesn't show up, you look at Cyprus and only Larnaka, Pafos and Akrotiri show up, type in LCEN and it says not found.
Thanks for explaining that, I am normally pretty "on the ball" in getting the majority of pronunciations correct but let Ercan slip through. I will remember that though as the airport will come up in a future episode :) Yes I have seen the recent developments at Ercan, it is quite good. That's a bit naughty though RE the planning apps, if you're in an emergency and need to get down fast you don't want a perfectly good runway hidden from you just because of politics :/
If there's one thing that baffles me about the end of KTHY was the decision to operate both 737-800 and A321-200. As stated in the video, there was little to no common type rating except for the cabin crew and nothing beyond that. While I can understand that they wanted the A321 for additional capacity, they should've acquired additional 737-800s or perhaps wait for the -900ER. After operating various models from Boeing and Airbus and previously MD, you'd think the higher ups were done with their experimentation and stick with one manufacturer for the time being but clearly not.
It was clear KTHY had a preference for Boeing albeit due to circumstances and not because it's what they wanted. But after signing off for 737-800s, it's a no-brainer to stick with one family of aircraft especially if you're a smaller carrier committed to acquiring your own metal and not just leasing out planes from other carriers. It's like they wanted to do what United did during the late 50s and early 1960s and go on a shopping spree for jetliners, which in United's case was the DC-8, Boeing 720, Sud Aviation Caravelle VI-R, and Boeing 727-100.
While it might not have saved the company, perhaps if the fleet decision were more rational, they might've lasted a bit longer, but there were of course other odds stacked against them.
Your assessment is correct, though they would have had to wait quite a few years for the 737-900ER to come along, perhaps KTHY should have held on to their A310s a little longer instead of investing in A321s to cover the gap before the 739ERs became available. I think their mixed fleet strategy was "ok" while they were still effectively state owned, they were certainly going to struggle once privatised.
The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus just inaugurated a brand new terminal at Ercan. The Turkish Cypriots should definitely try their best to restart their national airline, even if it is smaller than Turkish Airlines and other airlines in the Eastern Mediterranean. The market is large enough to sustain it.
I think the hard part now would be to compete against the Turkish carriers from the mainland that have built a big presence at Ercan, you are right though the market is large enough :)
Can you do a series of the history of the airline ?
Sure, which airline?
Cayman Airways
Great video Could you do Estonian air?
Thank you, yes I have a file in progress on Estonian Air :)
At 2:43, are you sure that's the wreckage of the TU-104A that overran the runway? The tail detached from the plane and the wings of the TU-104 aren't straight at all.
You are correct, there are several images of the TU-104 at Nicosia and it clearly has its tail standing upright amongst the wreckage. I'm not sure how this one slipped through nor as to what it is exactly, it looks like an IL-18 (and Egypt Air did crash one into the mountains on approach to the airport but this looks far too intact to be the same one).
The only other plausible accident this is from is the Nicosia Britannia disaster that killed 126, but then again, it doesn't look like a Britannia.
Yeah it really doesn't look like a Britannia, one thought does occur though, perhaps since the occupation it was a Turkish military IL-18? It's plausible that they lost one there and there were little/no reports about it. Then again I don't offhand know if the Turkish military used IL-18s.
@@ExpoAviation Bit late to the Party, but it's an Avro Shackleton MR.3 ex RAF serial XF700
@@roberttaylor5739 Thanks for the info :)
is there a chance we could get an japan air system video in the future? At one point they were the 3rd largest airline in japan.
Yes, I have got a few nots on JAS already and hopefully can get an episode out soon-ish :)
Give me a shout if you need anything about Aeroamerica
Will do, thanks :)
Frankly, the approach towards Turkey, which had to come to the island due to the pressure initiated by the Greek collaborators in order to destroy the existence of the Turks on the island, was a disappointment. Turks on the island experienced terrible events. Even though they do not respond in the same way to the behavior inflicted on them in order to prevent social peace from being disrupted, their experiences are still denied on the stage of history. The two nations have been living together in peace and brotherhood on the island and in this geography for centuries. Regardless of all the hate put out by politicians. I don't want to make the incident political, but when explaining such historical events, it may be healthier to approach it impartially, as befits the wonderful content of the videos on his channel.
Thank you for your input, I agree that impartiality would be the best approach, however as I point out in the video description I have lived with Greek Cypriots and that had allowed some biasedness to seep through - though I did manage to "tone it down" and cut some parts from the finished video as they were either inappropriate or irrelevant. I will admit that personally my knowledge of what happened comes from one side rather than both sides, I do hope that at some time in the near future we can see a unified Cyprus :)
Nice video.I don’t want to sound annoying but please can there be a video about Donbassaero since I have been asking for a year
Thanks Richard, yeah Donbassaero is a complicated one, their early history is almost non-existent and their ending is quite complex as they were effectively asset striped by a sister airline. I have got plenty of notes to go on now though, the biggest issue is trying to find the right timing given what is going on right now over there, rest assured I've not forgotten though :)
Absolutely butchered all the pronunciations mate
Oh well, I don't speak Turkish so tried to do my best :/