Field phase is great, and having the 2 phases really help Pokken standout as something really unique. I really hope that, if we ever get a Pokken 2, that they keep both phases in, and don't cut field just to try and appeal to more people.
I hope so too. I think you could flesh out Field Phase more, which would simultaneously also get more people to like it, but removing it also removes Pokken's identity imo.
Honestly, ppl really underestimate field phase. I like field phase just as much as duel phase. Ppl gotta remember is pokemon, both trainers throw their pokemons in a field to fight, I love how well pokken is actually made. It keeps the concept of original pokemon, and at the same time is a regular fighting game. That's why pokken is my favorite pokemon game. It's a shame it doesn't have to popularity it should had gotten.
I like the evolution of reads. Imagine I'm garchomp, I start by using dig and the attack hits you. Then you realize you can shield and then grab. I dig > cancel > grab your shield. I try it again and you attack me when I try to grab. I try it again, dig > cancel > counter your attack and I get the hit. There's probably a lot of better examples but two friends playing the game will see the same thing happen a few times and go "I can punish that" a game or two later the other player goes "I outsmarted your outsmarting" with a new punish to the punish.
One thing that always bugged me is that characters like Chandelure and Darkrai can abuse field phase, while Blaziken and Machamp have to work their ass off to win field.
3D movement isn't always nice to the slower characters, yeah. However, you might remember that the Bishop in Chess, which takes place on a 2D plane, is restricted to spaces of the same color that they start on. There's always the chance of Fragile Speedsters being checked in similar manners or some such that makes what I indicate a reliable point.
I think that mostly depends on matchups. Machamp and Blaziken would be fine against someone like Pikachu, Lucario, Libre, and more, but against zoners and trap based characters that can be tougher. I feel at least with someone like Chandelure, starting full screen in Duel Phase would be very oppressive considering her tools there, even if she also has very strong tools in Field.
Okay, so admittedly not familiar with Pokk(e)n myself, what you're saying is that Field Phase is built on involving methodical gameplay, is that right? You do mention about collectible nuggets, of course. If Kid Icarus Uprising were to have a sequel or some such, I would hope it would include something inspired by that, preferably to better emphasize the Power system's involvement. And yeah, I'll be talking so much about KIU's approach too, because I have FAR more experience with that and I definitely favor that. I wish to make a point about projectiles in general and what Kid Icarus Uprising does to make them more tolerable to deal with when weapon modifiers aren't messing everything up in the first place. The thing about projectiles is that the guy throwing them out is still issuing free damage as a result of the defender not delivering retribution. The obvious counter would be mobility to get close, but not every character has that, and this particularly sticks out when the projectile user can just as easily use mobility themselves. I can cite that this applies even if we ignore the involvement of unconditional flinching, already a general fighting game mechanic that bugs me unless the execution provides a welcome happy medium as Kid Icarus Uprising has done in spades. Reading on the Wikia article about Field Phase, I do notice that Pokk(e)n seems to involve the same directional attacks mechanic as KIU, except for Forward attacks in KIU not involving that Phase Shift mechanic that wouldn't be around in KIU in the first place, instead relying on relatively enhanced traits, to which I can cite that there's a technique I call the Spin Shot that makes use of KIU controls to be able to fire ANY directional Shot with ANY movement direction. It doesn't look like it would be possible in Pokk(e)n, BTW, unless lock-on to the opponent at the very least during Field Phase is optional. I will at least cite that if the Spin Shot technique is basically available in Pokk(e)n, given what I read about the Field Phase, the Spin Shot would be more clearly an option if the Forward range attacks are setting off this Duel Phase and the Side range attacks would thereby have the conditional advantage of avoiding that. Of course, I do want to punctuate what has KIU allow for disrupting projectile abuses without any active reliance on mobility even when the Spin Shot technique is more actively in use: the Power system. Players can equip Powers by fitting in Tetris-style shapes onto a 6x6 grid before starting battle and use the involved Powers, with limited charges for each of them, to manage bursts of effectiveness. The options for Powers actually include a few ways to both weather a storm of projectiles and also to guarantee distance closure, including one option, Black Hole, rooting a hapless opponent into place to make them an easy target for a close range singleton blow. By the way, I main Skyscraper Club, which has powerful focal Shots with low velocity as its active theme at the cost of it having the worst mobility of any weapon type in the game. There is one further aspect that explains why I don't just throw out Black Hole immediately for a free stock on every match where I'd be interested in practicality: intel. There are plenty of ways to break the Black Hole combination, enough to involve unknown information, but outside of busted things like Evasion+ or Celestial Fireworks, they generally boil down to either weapon type that is bound to come with clear foibles, or quite simply the responding Power usage. There's a memorization aspect involved with the latter to be sure, but when an opponent uses a Power, they basically reveal possible shapes used on their Power Grid for the player to figure out. Black Hole usage is rarely a waste if used decently anyway due to still knocking off an isolated Energy Charge use, forcing a response, and potentially punishing lack of secondary tag protection, but with limited charges, knowing how to optimize its usage would still be VERY preferable. If the opponent wants to stall to disrupt this, they have to put up with Counter providing an inexpensive risk-reward buff (it provides KB immunity with the user responding to getting hit by having a Neutral Shot aiming at the attacker indefinitely buffered regardless of chargeup available) that Skyscraper Club particularly benefits from, and this particularly helps when the most important thing for my setup to do would be to punch through the projectiles to effectiveness in a reliable manner to force the opponent to do significant Power usage. This is effective enough that the obvious solution of Reflect Barrier, which would answer both Counter and Black Hole used in basic manners, actually has to worry about being outmaneuvered as well. The clear appeal of this notion is simply that players could want to get innovative with their Powers, and on a meta level, we'd have things like how Playing Dead could be handled by deliberately moving early enough, probably 7 seconds in, to hide its Level, which for example on PD/EC/Slip Shot could keep somebody aware of that combination guessing whether Jump Glide Level 1 or PD3 is using the remaining space. Obviously, that's not the best example, which does showcase that the idea of Grid Reading as I call it IS capable of being overthinking, but besides that this still disrupts overly defensive play, there's also the point that enough of the more obnoxious Powers do get checked by their Power Grid shapes, most notably involving the full line required by leveled Autoreticle (auto-aiming buff with the benefit of significant duration increase per Level), Super Speed (3x running speed for several seconds with added division defense shenanigans and KB immunity, making escape easy), Mega Laser (long range attack that ignores terrain), Power Thief (buff that allows for stealing Power charges, although with melee attacks), and Bumblebee (get hit response of auto-buffered dodging that protects EC) immediately contradicting the full row and column for leveled Slip Shot (buff that has projectiles ignore terrain, need L2+ for more than 1 charge), Aries Armor (buff that throws in division defense shenanigans), and Trade-Off (HP To One buff that improves attack power and mobility as well as provides invincibility for duration affected by tributed HP). Notice how those Powers have various ways to cause the likes of Skyscraper Club fits? Notice also how I am, in defiance of common opinion, against banning Bumblebee, which is particularly disruptive to burst damage, but I hate Evasion+ FAR more even though the alleged answer to that is burst damage. I think you can see why I'd have such a high opinion of the Power system as far as its design philosophies go. At the end of the day, I can say something given how you're talking about involvement of projectile warfare and how spectators find the results boring. I can say about how I can agree that players aren't understanding key factors even though they involve both importance and useful additions. Pokk(e)n obviously involves its own style, but I can go ahead and provide my 2 cents. Hopefully, this isn't too overwhelming or anything. If you have any Qs, be sure to fire away.
I guess the easiest way to explain view is that Field Phase is about positioning, momentum, and meter management (gaining meter via winning the phase or obtaining the synergy nuggets), mostly through the use of projectiles, but every character has physical attacks like homing attacks and dive kicks. That's the main gist of it, really. Will say this about Field Phase since I don't think I brought it up for people who didn't know, but you're always locked onto your opponent. There's no way to look away from them, that's just how the camera works here.
Mostly just as "it's just like those arena fighters!" since those arena fighters are generally looked down on. I've seen maybe 2 or 3 people reference Jump Force specifically but it was somewhat of an exaggeration haha
Field phase is great, and having the 2 phases really help Pokken standout as something really unique. I really hope that, if we ever get a Pokken 2, that they keep both phases in, and don't cut field just to try and appeal to more people.
I hope so too. I think you could flesh out Field Phase more, which would simultaneously also get more people to like it, but removing it also removes Pokken's identity imo.
I always looked at it as “enhanced neutral”. You try to cover ground and put yourself in a better position when duel phase is eventually activated.
Yup! Exactly this!
Honestly, ppl really underestimate field phase. I like field phase just as much as duel phase. Ppl gotta remember is pokemon, both trainers throw their pokemons in a field to fight, I love how well pokken is actually made. It keeps the concept of original pokemon, and at the same time is a regular fighting game. That's why pokken is my favorite pokemon game. It's a shame it doesn't have to popularity it should had gotten.
As a Darkrai main, I can concur that field phase is greatly important 😂
Mi too darkcry needs that field phase to be won else game is harder than normal
I like the evolution of reads. Imagine I'm garchomp, I start by using dig and the attack hits you. Then you realize you can shield and then grab. I dig > cancel > grab your shield. I try it again and you attack me when I try to grab. I try it again, dig > cancel > counter your attack and I get the hit. There's probably a lot of better examples but two friends playing the game will see the same thing happen a few times and go "I can punish that" a game or two later the other player goes "I outsmarted your outsmarting" with a new punish to the punish.
Pokken wouldn’t be the same if I couldn’t use Mega Gengar’s “YEEEEEE HAAAAA”. Literally ruined without it.
As a Darkrai main field phase is my happy place.
Except when I'm fighting Gardevoirs and Chandelures, then it becomes bullet hell.
I dunno about you but I've DREAMED of playing Touhou in my Pokemon fighting game haha.
@@Jukem I'll gladly make you my *substitute* in situations like that then.
One thing that always bugged me is that characters like Chandelure and Darkrai can abuse field phase, while Blaziken and Machamp have to work their ass off to win field.
3D movement isn't always nice to the slower characters, yeah. However, you might remember that the Bishop in Chess, which takes place on a 2D plane, is restricted to spaces of the same color that they start on. There's always the chance of Fragile Speedsters being checked in similar manners or some such that makes what I indicate a reliable point.
I think that mostly depends on matchups. Machamp and Blaziken would be fine against someone like Pikachu, Lucario, Libre, and more, but against zoners and trap based characters that can be tougher. I feel at least with someone like Chandelure, starting full screen in Duel Phase would be very oppressive considering her tools there, even if she also has very strong tools in Field.
Okay, so admittedly not familiar with Pokk(e)n myself, what you're saying is that Field Phase is built on involving methodical gameplay, is that right? You do mention about collectible nuggets, of course. If Kid Icarus Uprising were to have a sequel or some such, I would hope it would include something inspired by that, preferably to better emphasize the Power system's involvement. And yeah, I'll be talking so much about KIU's approach too, because I have FAR more experience with that and I definitely favor that.
I wish to make a point about projectiles in general and what Kid Icarus Uprising does to make them more tolerable to deal with when weapon modifiers aren't messing everything up in the first place. The thing about projectiles is that the guy throwing them out is still issuing free damage as a result of the defender not delivering retribution. The obvious counter would be mobility to get close, but not every character has that, and this particularly sticks out when the projectile user can just as easily use mobility themselves. I can cite that this applies even if we ignore the involvement of unconditional flinching, already a general fighting game mechanic that bugs me unless the execution provides a welcome happy medium as Kid Icarus Uprising has done in spades.
Reading on the Wikia article about Field Phase, I do notice that Pokk(e)n seems to involve the same directional attacks mechanic as KIU, except for Forward attacks in KIU not involving that Phase Shift mechanic that wouldn't be around in KIU in the first place, instead relying on relatively enhanced traits, to which I can cite that there's a technique I call the Spin Shot that makes use of KIU controls to be able to fire ANY directional Shot with ANY movement direction. It doesn't look like it would be possible in Pokk(e)n, BTW, unless lock-on to the opponent at the very least during Field Phase is optional. I will at least cite that if the Spin Shot technique is basically available in Pokk(e)n, given what I read about the Field Phase, the Spin Shot would be more clearly an option if the Forward range attacks are setting off this Duel Phase and the Side range attacks would thereby have the conditional advantage of avoiding that.
Of course, I do want to punctuate what has KIU allow for disrupting projectile abuses without any active reliance on mobility even when the Spin Shot technique is more actively in use: the Power system. Players can equip Powers by fitting in Tetris-style shapes onto a 6x6 grid before starting battle and use the involved Powers, with limited charges for each of them, to manage bursts of effectiveness. The options for Powers actually include a few ways to both weather a storm of projectiles and also to guarantee distance closure, including one option, Black Hole, rooting a hapless opponent into place to make them an easy target for a close range singleton blow. By the way, I main Skyscraper Club, which has powerful focal Shots with low velocity as its active theme at the cost of it having the worst mobility of any weapon type in the game.
There is one further aspect that explains why I don't just throw out Black Hole immediately for a free stock on every match where I'd be interested in practicality: intel. There are plenty of ways to break the Black Hole combination, enough to involve unknown information, but outside of busted things like Evasion+ or Celestial Fireworks, they generally boil down to either weapon type that is bound to come with clear foibles, or quite simply the responding Power usage. There's a memorization aspect involved with the latter to be sure, but when an opponent uses a Power, they basically reveal possible shapes used on their Power Grid for the player to figure out. Black Hole usage is rarely a waste if used decently anyway due to still knocking off an isolated Energy Charge use, forcing a response, and potentially punishing lack of secondary tag protection, but with limited charges, knowing how to optimize its usage would still be VERY preferable. If the opponent wants to stall to disrupt this, they have to put up with Counter providing an inexpensive risk-reward buff (it provides KB immunity with the user responding to getting hit by having a Neutral Shot aiming at the attacker indefinitely buffered regardless of chargeup available) that Skyscraper Club particularly benefits from, and this particularly helps when the most important thing for my setup to do would be to punch through the projectiles to effectiveness in a reliable manner to force the opponent to do significant Power usage. This is effective enough that the obvious solution of Reflect Barrier, which would answer both Counter and Black Hole used in basic manners, actually has to worry about being outmaneuvered as well.
The clear appeal of this notion is simply that players could want to get innovative with their Powers, and on a meta level, we'd have things like how Playing Dead could be handled by deliberately moving early enough, probably 7 seconds in, to hide its Level, which for example on PD/EC/Slip Shot could keep somebody aware of that combination guessing whether Jump Glide Level 1 or PD3 is using the remaining space. Obviously, that's not the best example, which does showcase that the idea of Grid Reading as I call it IS capable of being overthinking, but besides that this still disrupts overly defensive play, there's also the point that enough of the more obnoxious Powers do get checked by their Power Grid shapes, most notably involving the full line required by leveled Autoreticle (auto-aiming buff with the benefit of significant duration increase per Level), Super Speed (3x running speed for several seconds with added division defense shenanigans and KB immunity, making escape easy), Mega Laser (long range attack that ignores terrain), Power Thief (buff that allows for stealing Power charges, although with melee attacks), and Bumblebee (get hit response of auto-buffered dodging that protects EC) immediately contradicting the full row and column for leveled Slip Shot (buff that has projectiles ignore terrain, need L2+ for more than 1 charge), Aries Armor (buff that throws in division defense shenanigans), and Trade-Off (HP To One buff that improves attack power and mobility as well as provides invincibility for duration affected by tributed HP). Notice how those Powers have various ways to cause the likes of Skyscraper Club fits? Notice also how I am, in defiance of common opinion, against banning Bumblebee, which is particularly disruptive to burst damage, but I hate Evasion+ FAR more even though the alleged answer to that is burst damage. I think you can see why I'd have such a high opinion of the Power system as far as its design philosophies go.
At the end of the day, I can say something given how you're talking about involvement of projectile warfare and how spectators find the results boring. I can say about how I can agree that players aren't understanding key factors even though they involve both importance and useful additions. Pokk(e)n obviously involves its own style, but I can go ahead and provide my 2 cents. Hopefully, this isn't too overwhelming or anything. If you have any Qs, be sure to fire away.
I guess the easiest way to explain view is that Field Phase is about positioning, momentum, and meter management (gaining meter via winning the phase or obtaining the synergy nuggets), mostly through the use of projectiles, but every character has physical attacks like homing attacks and dive kicks. That's the main gist of it, really. Will say this about Field Phase since I don't think I brought it up for people who didn't know, but you're always locked onto your opponent. There's no way to look away from them, that's just how the camera works here.
9.06 who summoned me
Who compares Jump Force to Pokken?
Mostly just as "it's just like those arena fighters!" since those arena fighters are generally looked down on. I've seen maybe 2 or 3 people reference Jump Force specifically but it was somewhat of an exaggeration haha
@@Jukem yeah cause why would you compare an underrated gem like pokken to the dumpster fire that is Jump Force
Based Jukem