Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire // 3rd century AD "Weilüe" // Primary Source
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2019
- "The ruler of Da Qin is not permanent. When disasters result from unusual phenomena, they unceremoniously replace him, installing a virtuous man as king, and release the old king, who does not dare show resentment..."
Here we have the words of the early third century Chinese historian Yu Huan, who lived during the Three Kingdoms period of Chinese history. Though he never left China, he collected large amounts of information on the countries to the West, chief among them the Roman Empire.
Enormous thanks to John E. Hill for kindly allowing us to use his translation, and for tips on the possible locations mentioned and correct pronunciation. There is still some debate on some of the places mentioned in the text, so please enjoy debating further about it!
depts.washington.edu/silkroad...
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"There are too many small kingdoms to describe. Now, let me list in detail all the rugs they use."
Loves cloth so he does
@@VoicesofthePast As the author, Yu Huan, sadly, was unable to travel far in person, he was obliged to use the reports of others, who were often merchants. They, naturally, reflected their own concerns and the products they had for sale. These were also important to the government which made great profits from taxing the trade with the West.
lmao
also, why I LOVE ancient history...
please guys, pick an ancient or medieval language just to be literate and read
your perspective on humanity increases multitudes
Typical Chinese. Not very interested in people but more so in clothings & fabric ;)
ancient GPS be like: turn left and cross two seas, you will arrive at your destination in three years with no wind
SPEED = DISTANCE / TIME.
@@oldi184 ok
Funnily the Time with 3 years is something he only knew cause the parthians lied to the chinese envoy in order to strenghen their grasp on the trade between china and rome.
You really had to have alot of faith back then lol
@@oldi184 ok?????
“So what kind of clothes do the westerns wear?”
“Western clothes”
the words must be thriftly write on bamboo slip.
that time paper book is not avaliable.
It's fortunately they could have any records in that difficult era.
@Jack Lynd the chinese had paper at this point
So what flavor is Japan's tea?
"Japanese"
"Yes but tell me more about the ten types of glaze"
They wear pants real low
Chinese historians: "The seat of the ruler is by a river"
Everyone: "Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?"
i dont get it, please explain lol
@@doni654321 you need fresh water for a city, so almost all cities are near rivers
The_Bellend the Roman Empire was huge, especially for the time. There were millions of rivers spread over the whole empire. It doesn’t really make it clear where Rome is by saying it’s on one of those many rivers.
I presume he meant Rome
We would have to read the rest of the original text for the context. For all we know, it could simply mean there was a river by the city, as part of the description of the place, and was not meant to specify the location.
it is so incredible that i can sit here eating lunch while listening to what a chinese historian 2000 years ago thought about the roman empire
ThePainkiller9995 hard to believe isn't it.
It's so incredible that i can sit here eating chips while reading what a random UA-camr thought about listening to what a 2000 year old chinese historian thought about the roman empire
@@arthurlecomte8950 It's so incredible that I can sit here drinking my coffee while reading about a random UA-camr eating chips that was reading what a random UA-camr thought about when listening to what a 2000 year old Chinese historian thought about the roman empire.
@Sean C it's good in general don't knock it, don't blame the algorithm if it keeps recommending cat videos.
How far we came I'm I right!🤘😳
He obviously met alot of textile merchants when compiling his research.
That's who did most of the trading. Persian and Parthian textile traders.
silk road...
Too bad he wasn't an alcoholic, then we'd know what they drank.
He is chinese. Chinese do business.
@S, Lianis You obviously don't know any Chinese people.
*sends scout out in Civ*
Scout: "I have found another civilization!"
Me: "What cities do they have? What military?"
Scout: "They have silk scarves, made in the western fashion, and red rugs, and hanging rugs, and carpets of all kinds..."
Also they unceremoniously kill their rulers, are circus performers, and there are lots of tigers
He didn’t go there. He ended up near Egypt and just asked what they were like. Therefore a lot of info is economic
Hahaha
that's because the Chinese are notoriously business and trade oriented. They care about what kind of resources and goods another civilization can offer them in exchange for their money or resources.
The city of Hangzhou in Zhejiang province was the apex of the silk road.
"It is commonly belived that a fish living in a little stream does not know the size of the Yangtze river and the sea, the May fly for that matter does not know of the changing of the four seasons. Why is this so? Because one lives in a small place and the others life is short. I am for the moment intensively examining Daqin and all the other foreign kingdoms. Alas I am limited to traveling by foot and am left living in the puddle left by the hoofprint of an Ox, besides I don't have the longevity of Peng Zu. It has not been my fate to see things first hand, travelling with the rapid winds, or enlisting swift horses to view distant vistas. Alas, I have to strain to see the three heavenly bodies but, oh, how my thoughts fly to the eight foreign regions!" - Yu Huan, 265AD
Touching, more so to read it in Classical Chinese
10:38
Go straight ahead, cross a big sea, turn left, cross another big sea..
@Gacha cookie monster Remind me not to get lost in Asia...
@Gacha cookie monster Must be why they are exceptional drivers ;)
......And you're there! Thanks for watching Rick Steve's Europe. Keep on Traveling!
It’s gonna look like the same sea, same guys going to take you across all these seas. Tipping is customary. If it seems like he is just taking you back and forth across the same sea, shut up and tip him
Omg imagine a GPS talking like an anchient chinese historian.
At least the ancient Europeans as Greeks and Romans gave names for river such as Euphrates, Tigres, Hydaspides, in India 🇮🇳
I like how the Chinese account was like, "Yeah, the Romans are really awesome, but they're basically our descendants so it makes sense."
Which is untrue as fuck
While the other side called them barbarians shows the difference lol 😂
If I had to guess, it's a bastardized retelling of the Aeneid, where Trojans from the east went west to found Rome.
Meanwhile the first Greek accounts of southern India are like "PeOpLe HaVe ThReE hEaDs", which is probably a fun result of a game of historical telephone mixed with exoticism.
Dixie anglo American Exactly... black people were your ancestors... SON!
I love the fact that he's mainly preoccupied with basic, practical information about politics and tradeable commodities, but stops to talk about some circus tricks he's seen that he thought were really cool. That coda added on at the end about how big and wondrous the world is and how little of it he'll get to see in his lifetime is beautiful, poetic and haunting. Even in today's interconnected, obsessively documented world, it still rings true.
This account is not a firsthand report. The historian in question was too poor to travel, but he has collected lots of first- and secondhand reports and assembled them into this document that is being read here (which explains why so many statements are vague or incorrect).
@@Orillion123456 hmm, yep
that probably explains why he went on and on about how many rugs there were in the Roman Empire - these were everything traded from the Roman Empire through the Silk Road that he could have touched in his lifetime
It's so true and kind of sad when in the last 2 min. Yu Huan regrets that he'll never be able to travel to these distant lands and therefore he cannot verify his information first hand. He's so hungry of knowledge, yet he understands that his life is too short and world too vast. 1800 years later I feel the same (but I have internet and channels like this one to satisfy my hunger :)
I had the opposite reaction. As a German I'm flying to New York soon, a huge distance for this man and it will not take me months or years, I'll be there in 7 hours
I wish he were able to visit Rome at the height of the Empire (around 100 AD)
@@shittymcrvids3119not everyone is as privileged as you. Many people still can’t travel all the world in 2023 for various reasons. You are assuming everyone must have the same same rich white lifestyle as you
@@enricomassignani Also wish Rome lasted a few more centuries and a Roman explorer could’ve visited China at its height (~650 CE Tang Dynasty)
Can you imagine these ancient historians and what they would think of the info we have from the internet about history. The info that got destroyed/missing etc
The internet has finally met my specific needs
Welcome!
Yes there is some good out there
Angie Kether saaaaame this is such a precious channel
Voices of the Past I remember one morning several years ago I was having breakfast and the thought crossed my mind of what might Chinese people have thought of the first Europeans they met; doing some googling I found a paper on a 16th century Chinese mariner’s impressions of several European nations. I was truly transfixed by the notion of people so remote to me and to each other meeting for the first time and then writing down what they saw and felt. I tried to look for similar material but I couldn’t really find much similar, until now just casually getting your videos suggested by YT.
Thank you so so much for making them! :D
I never knew I needed historical ASMR, but here I am.
* Sees a roadside attraction *
“These people have a tradition of amazing conjuring.”
Chinese roadside attractions include balancing skills, and extreme flexibility or martial arts so blowing fire is conjuring for them
Maybe conjuring is a loose translation of entertainment.
@@OriginMSD "Have a seat, have a seat! And I shall conjure for you...FUN beyond your wildest DREAMS!!"
It's probably a loose translation for magic. The concept of magic is pretty ancient and widespread across societies, though in many cases under a loose umbrella of mysticism based on the unknown.
I'm tickled pink by the idea that to the ancient Chinese, magic was a category that included both pyromancy and juggling
@@OriginMSD Conjuring skill in skyrim revolves around summoning stuff.
It's funny how they didn't have a term for elected leader and referred to senators as generals
makes sense considering that's the closest comparison the chinese would have had. The republic system must have seemed totally alien to them.
@@samcavanagh7993 yeah I understand it, it's just a funny insight
To this day, they havent found out what an elected leader means XD
@@lokeshn8850 fuck, what a burn lmao
@@lokeshn8850 oooooo snap jsksjskakskajsa underrated comment.
Yu Huan: "I am limited to travelling on foot and living in the puddle of the hoof print left by an ox.
But, oh, how my thoughts fly to the eight foreign regions."
It's nice to hear an ancient Chinese historian wish to visit a very distant country.
My guess about him 'having to strain to see the 3 heavenly bodies' was him saying he had bad eyes.
Too nerdy to travel the wilds of the ancient world, he stayed home and read books instead.
@@jimboblordofeskimos Actually, '3 heavenly bodies' is symbolic of sun moon and star in Chinese
@@jimboblordofeskimos The original is但劳眺乎三辰，而飞思乎八荒耳。
I can only look at 3 heavenly bodies （sun，moon&stars）from a distance，my thoughts fly to the eight foreign regions
It means that he can only afford to see only his horizon which is his local region. Anything further would require imagination as the distance is just too far
It's a long long way to Ba Sing Se, but the girls in the city all look so pretty
"They uncerimoniously replace him" how delicate 😆
"who does not dare show resentment" :D
@@andrewcath4615 Because he is dead xD
In 1500 years Rome had 115 emperors.
54 have been murdered, 2 poisoned, 6 expelled, 5 committed suicide, 6 forced to abdicate, 1 buried alive, 2 unknown deaths, 2 struck by a lightning, and 37 died by natural death.
Oh and i am not counting emperor's relatives that have been killed
@Manuel Sacha Actually no, the Text are from 300AD from the Three Kingdoms Period.
This means we are fully in the Era of the Empire Rome with the many murdered Emperors lmao
@@regnbuetorsk What the hell did those 2 unfortnunate enough to be struck by lightning do to deserve that fate? That's actually a disproportionally large number
who needs gps when you have a 2000 year old chinese historian guiding you
I replied to your comment because it was all alone by itself poor comment :'/
I can just imagine an 80's family packed in a station wagon trecking through ancient Rome. "Hurry, we might see the twelve ball jugglers" the dad says, as the younger brother makes a joke about balls and his older sister scoffs at him.
I like the barely suppressed shade thrown at the Parthians for the terribleness of the directions. "Look we know it's out there somewhere the fucking Parthians won't tell us where!"
Yeah,... Those were the good old days.
trafalgar gunner go west at big sea
One of the most interesting things I find is that the Chinese think the Romans cultivated silkworms.
This is not true, the Romans never cultivated silkworms. So why did the Chinese think they did? The Parthian Empire!
Basically, when the Chinese sent silk down the Silk Road, they'd pass through quite a few kingdoms and other states. One of them being the Kushan Kingdom, who'd let the Chinese through but for a small fee. However, the Parthians ended up being great at business, because once the Chinese reached the city of Merv, they'd be stopped and convince the Chinese to hand over their goods and have the Parthians take it the rest of the way, to sell at a profit. And they made sure the Chinese went through them, apparently in the entire history of the Han Empire, only one Chinese man ever made it through the Parthians. We'll get back to him later.
So, the Parthians took the Chinese silk, which was tightly woven into blankets to the Romans, making sure the two never met. The Romans however, would usually unravel the silk to make it into lighter sheets, similar to what we'd commonly consider silk. They would then end up selling it back to the Chinese, and of course, the Parthians would take it. However, when the Parthians met the Chinese, and the Chinese asked where this silk came from, the Parthians would say it came from Roman silkworms.
This was a simple deception, because if the Chinese realised they had a monopoly on silk, they would have been able to sell it for a *huge* mark-up. However, since the Chinese "knew" that the Romans had cultivated silkworms, they weren't able to price it as high.
Pretty cool hey? In fact, the fact that the Romans unraveled Chinese silk is actually mentioned by Yu Huan himself.
So what about this man who made it through the Parthians? Well, the great general Ban Chao sent an ambassador by the name of Gan Ying to cross the silk road to see the Romans. He made it all the way through Parthia and to the "western sea", likely the Persian gulf, where he planned to take a ship the rest of the way. When he planned to hire a ship, he was told by the sailors:
"The ocean is huge, if you encounter winds that delay you it can take two years. The vast ocean urges men to think of their home country, and get homesick. And some of them die."
Of course, they neglected to mention the far quicker land route. So what did Gan Ying do? Well he asked the sailors to tell him everything about the Roman Empire. They did, he wrote it down, and took it back to China.
I'd venture to guess quite a bit of this work of Yu Huan was derived from what Gan Ying was told by the sailors.
Thanks for taking time to write this bro very interesting stuff.🤝
Thank you so much for writing this down! It's really interesting to learn about this interesting "silkworm" the Romans/Parthians craftily used to keep the prices in check!
The Parthians basically became Roman puppets until the rise of the Sassanid Empire, so it's not entirely unfair to call them "Roman."
It's not helped by how many powerful Roman families worked to profit from the trade with the East, and being unable to do so somewhat froze people out of politics, so it's easy to see why someone would think Rome was able to make Silk themselves: it would be hard to grasp how "mere" merchants could become so powerful.
For the Roman silkworms, I guess the merchants told Chinese this because they could bargin a better price.
Huh
Sad ending. Gives a feeling how much he wanted to see places but simply didn't have the transport and age to see more
"There are no bandits on the roads..." AHA! What triumph of civilization and Rule of Law!!!
"...and if you are not with a group you will be devoured by lions."
@@alanstehlik3514 even tigers were spread in the european plains?
@@Casioo24 potentially, but there would also be mountain or cave lions and lynx that could be mistaken for tigers
@ocelot. FYI Male European lions had no mains!!l...A totally different species that is now unfortunately extinct.
@Josip they were. What about the Nemean Lion then...
ocelot. Yes Lions are Humans natural enemies, that is why we hunted them to extinction.
this is what travel blogging was like 2000 years ago
Damn this guy would have made some quality ass vlogs
@@turnttaco7661 I can imagine him making a series of "unrolling and test-sitting local carpets".
2020: "2/5 I don't recommend : No Wi-Fi"
220: "2/5 I don't recommend: Half of group eaten by giant packs of lions and tigers"
Check out my quill and sailing equipment in the links below!
I just wish we could read the comments too
Chinese thoughts on Rome:
"So basically I went all the way across there world and, oh look, Other China. Yup, I definitely see China here, this is all China."
"Obviously, everything that's any good is Chinese, and, I'm looking around here, and there's a lot of good shit - so I don't know what else to call it."
*Goes to Africa
Chinese: This is China
*Goes to Antartica
Chinese: This is China
oh God. help these people. Guys you need some books to get what the traveler means about this is china. 😏
This land has been a sovereign territory of China since ancient times.
honestly being seen as another china is probably the best compliment that rome could receive from the chinese lol
"When unusual disasters strike, they unceremoniously replace him"
Well he's not entirely wrong
The world must have appeared to be a much more magical place back whenever not every square inch was accurately mapped out and connected. When you would hear stories of these far away lands where everything is so different, other massive countries with countless kingdoms, and you're not sure quite how big this world really is and how much it holds.
The same way we see the universe today.
@@knife-wieldingspidergod5059 Not quite. Don't know of any foreign cultures up there.
@@knife-wieldingspidergod5059 Yeah not quite. Most scientist believe that its quite empty... others believe that its so big...
Colin Boxall don’t know but doesn’t mean they ain’t there!!!
basically, the feeling someone gets when they play a dark souls game for the first time, at least that's how I felt.
Totally love how this slowly evolves into a merchant shopping guide lol
Makes sense. What’s the point of going all that way if you’re not gonna take anything valuable back with you?
@@mephostopheles3752 i heard the guy worked in the chinese army of the time and that kinda got me thinking. Wouldnt he be *really* interested in their military tech and tactics?
Ads are getting smarter
It makes sense, he probably got most of the information from merchants traveling from Europe to China along the Silk Road and through the Indian Ocean. They would be most interested in what goods could be bought there to be sold in Asia.
Silk game was strong back then lol
Sailors on the Mediterranean ships: "Its my way or the Haibei!"
You deserve more likes.
😭😭😭
Millions of dead Romans all cried out in anguish at the term "king" haha
Sic semper tyrannis!
@@hannibalbarca9832 Latin is a dead language bro
BeggyBoss Yes and no
Not really, Romans hated the Senate they liked the Emperors, only the senate p@arasites wanted a Republic not the Roman people
@@frd8798 Still being spoken in France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Romania, _Latin_ America, much of Africa, Catholic churches worldwide, and plenty more. Very heavily altered versions, yes, but are they not still Romance?
Chinese: How do you call this city?
Greek: Alexandria.
Chines: You mean Wuchisan? Got it.
To be fair, in old chinese that could be pronuncied something like *qaː ləj sˤanʔ(烏遲散), cfr. "Wuyishanli" *ʔˤa lək srar raj (烏弋山離)...
@@marcocampa94 cool
Ok, a few people have made this kinda comment here. And I have to wonder: what does everyone think ancient "China" called itself?
@@neutralrobot
Zhong Guo in broad sense 中國 or Tianxia 天下 in an even more broader sense.
Sic et simpliciter.
@@neutralrobot I wonder in general, why there are different names for countries and cities in each language. Learn to pronounce, lazy fucks.
"and juggle 12 balls"
dude, the current world record is 11. either someone miscounted or the romans were better than we are
No no, you misunderstood entirely.
He said "and juggle 12 balls with extraordinary skill." So, in ancient Rome, there are only 12 balls that can be juggled with extraordinary skill. The others can only be juggled with ordinary skill.
Not entirely implausible, life today is generally more diverse in interests and talents, while due to the circumstances of living in a limited sphere where the majority of people would probably live and die within a set region through multiple generations, you probably had people whom had extremely developed linear talents. We generally like to think of ourselves as superior in general (through physicality or mental acuity) but I would put forth that juggling didn't need a inter-woven network of people to push forth into the threshold of breaking boundaries and setting records.
@@Kaosu10 ...
On the other hand, someone probably exaggerated.
Roman men liked juggling balls
@@SoulWinner1986 and diddling little boys
Can we just take a moment to appreciate the massive works translators and historians have gone through in modern time to figure out which countries/cities these ancient scrolls refer to? Amazing.
"Anshi", I always wondered how that name came about. But then I remembered that Parthia was only called "Parthia" by the Romans; to foreigners, they were "Arsaces", the Arsacid Empire, a term that can explain the Chinese name by contraction: Arsaces becomes Arsci, becomes Anshi.
安息
Chinese Pronunciation in Han Dynasty:
* ˤa[r/n] sək
which is an almost exact replica of "Aršaka/Arsaces"
Fire breathing, jugglers, lions, and brightly colored cloths for the tents. Someone just described a circus to this guy haha
@necronomitom Where did you think the word 'circus' came from? It is a Latin word!
@@SpectatorAlius "Panem et circenses" 😉
@@Skadi609 I thought of that too. But of course this Chinese historian relying on third hand sources did not get that good a view of the government. And classic though Juvenal was, hie works were not translated into Chinese -- maybe it is time!
In any case, it is nice to see there is someone else out there who gets the reference to Juvenal;)
SpectatorAlius just learned something new.
Some what street preformers!
Ancient Historians: There is a sea. There is a city west of the sea, which is why we call the sea "west of sea". There is another big sea.
supleted hmmm yes I see
Ancient satellite navigation units: go north until you reach the other big city. Cross the big sea to the west, and go north to the next big city. You have reached your destination.
*_hm, yes, the sea appears to be made out of sea_*
That part had me for a minute 😂
I think it's kind of nice. There's no little details they just tell you straightup where everything is
Quite touching to hear the earnest thoughts of the historian as he tried to record his knowledge as much as possible, knowing that some day in the future, other people may read his words.
Firstly, I love this channel. I always loved ancient history. I love the maps in these in particular. They are very clear and easy to see. Thank you so much. I am 78 yrs of age.
Considering that the Chinese historian would have likely been relying on second-hand or worse accounts by traders, that wasn't too far off. Impressively close on the geography and political system. I like how he acknowledges how little information he actually has too.
Yeah, it's interesting to see how close he got to the truth from just second-hand accounts. It's also pretty fun to hear where he got it wrong, though. The description of how the Roman Emperors were removed from power was pretty funny, for example. "They. . .release the old king, who does not dare show resentment." 😂 It's not technically wrong, dead emperors *do* tend to find it difficult to show resentment.
@@gwenc1371 I wonder how much he (or his sources) were confusing the Roman Empire with the Roman Republic It makes more sense if the kings in question were in fact Consuls
@@JamesR1986 That's an excellent point! It could be that the information he was getting was outdated and the fact that such relatively peaceful transitions were old news just didn't reach him. He never went to the Roman Empire himself, so he was pretty much writing down what he'd heard through a game of telephone, after all.
He was right to deduce that the Persians were messing with the Chinese to stop their middlemen role being threatened. The rumours about there being a shit load of lions and tigers was likely deliberately spread misinformation.
@@iratepirate3896 no, that was accurate. Lions used to roam freely from africa to asia and numbered in the millions.
The humility of this historian at the end is inspiring
@David Jones I think he'd be stumped hearing that it was a sphere, before you even got to any troll pseudoscience.
Gave me chills, really gives a bit of perspective on how connected we are today.
It is said that a wise man knows that he doesn't know everything.
@TheVaultdweller The wisest know nothing and are comfortable in ambiguity
I wish I understood his cultural references. “Living in the print of an ox hoof” must be a Chinese idiom.
I love how this decription has aspects of both the roman empire and republic in its description (and the removing kings and in place putting a virturous man sounds like the rex and noble system from the roman kingdom). It really shows that they had very little information to work with, with what they knew being a mixture of outdated information (the republic and kingdom) and current information (the empire). Extremely intersting, great video.
So I've only seen two videos... and after 10+ years of browsing youtube, this is now my favorite channel.
I particularly liked the note at the end, where he mentions how he is limited to second-hand accounts and will never be able to see Da Qin or the other foreign regions for himself.
@Joe Blow no it isn't
Like he says that there are no bandits but travelers can be attacked by lions and tigers
C V out of all the information he presents for never being in Italy it is surprisingly accurate if these are your only two counter points for a man in an ancient time to be this close who is taking second or third hand accounts is “surprisingly accurate”
C V and what is so wrong about that?
@@gabor7524 Bandits were a big problem in the Roman times although not everywhere and all the time
C V: Are those soldiers wearing animal skins? 🤔
"They unceremoniously remove him."
I thought there were ceremony involving daggers?
Too soon
@@ericklajara8641 It's been over two thousands years.
@@juliendacoolien3454 still too soon
@@juliendacoolien3454 insensitive.
Et tu Brutus?
This is such a fascinating way to learn about history. And the traveler's musings at the end of the video were absolutely beautiful. Thank you!!
Some kid should use this a reference for his essay on Rome. 'Julius Caesar was a 7 ft tall fire-breathing king who grew his own silkworms and used a spoon made out of rock.'
Unfortunately he was eaten by a tiger when he tried to travel alone.
@@micha2909 than after 9 months, he came out of the tigers body ripping it apart and grew into a 6 handed sky dragon
It’s worth noting that the Roman "water sheep" silk is actually Sea Silk, produced in what is now Israel, Lebanon and Syria. It isn’t actual silkworm silk, but a silk like fabric made from snail excretions.
Fascinating, thank you--I'd not heard of that!
Lol I was really confused about the term "water sheep" thanks for clarifying
This proves that the Council of Watersheep has been a power-player for thousands of years. Someone needs to tell Felix...
This is the stuff people go looking for in the comment section.
Than you
It’s an extremely rare skill nowadays
The closing remarks of the historian are truly heartfelt. You learn of a man from 18 centuries ago who wanted to travel and know the world, but accepted that it's not possible for him.
Well, if he only knew in 18 centuries after, u could get there fairly easily
If you only knew 18 centuries from now people will write that about you
Oof. Facts man, but at least he's remembered all this time later, and how he was amongst the most curious scholars
We respect his understanding of the situation
It's still the same thing now. We still have same pain, not of exploring the world, but in space.
If you think about it, even a century ago aviation wasn't sufficiently developed to travel overseas, and Cape Horn was the only choice if you had to travel by sea between the Atlantic and the Pacific. No GPS, so be sure the sea pilot knows how to read the night sky.
Fantastic video and high quality translating! Love & respect to all the people around the world
His descriptions postulate his intrigue. You can tell this man was a true traveler at heart.
We need the reverse: the Roman writings about China
Planning right now!
@@VoicesofthePast God video btw
Thanks pal!
"bar bar bar bar"
@@VoicesofthePast I'll be waiting.
You can tell he has a lot of admiration, it’s cool to see an ancient cultural respect
It's pretty astonishing. The Chinese (and the Romans too) saw little to admire in other civilisations.
@@iratepirate3896 nah the roman actually respected parthians and other kingdoms, (the numidian for example) they disliked gauls and germans mostly, ironically enough, because they didn't bathe themselves that much and romans were extremely petty and clean freaks basically, and that was considered an extremely bad misdemeanor
@@garn4579 The Parthians and Sassanids were the main real exception, but even they were only respected begrudgingly, the latter far more so than the Parthians.
@@garn4579 they didn't respect anyone in particular and thought of anyone not roman as barbarians, and those who did gain respect were due to much effort on the other's behalf. The romans remained ignorant on China, as they were too far to conquer, thus less time was invested in learning about them.
@@jkjkhardcore666 again not really, they had good relations with greeks and some northern african kingdom (like the numidian), mostly after their help during the second punic wars, the greeks were the one thinking everyone but them was a barbarian
The introduction here was just magnificent. Awesome video!!
Goddamnit that end was absolutely beautiful and humble thank you for this
Da Qin: the other china, literal translation. A more florid prose would call it "the empire across the earth"
That's some incredible praising to be considered an equal by the Chinese.
Archimonde
Definitely is. China back in those days especially was miles ahead of most other civilizations.
Roman Empire was the only one they thought was worthy enough to be considered of any importance.
That and maybe some in India as well.
Literally in Chinese Da Qin (大秦) means "Great Qin". Qin was a state who conquered all the other states and formed the united China for the first time, but collapsed only 15 years after the unification. The reason why the successor Han dynasty used Qin to translate Roman Empire was possibly because Qin was the western most state in China, and Roman Empire is also in the west. They were both strong and rich, so maybe these two countries are related. (This is only my guessing, not based on academic research)
The word "China" is ultimately from "Qin" (historical reconstructed pronunciation: dsin), but never used by the Chinese people to call themselves. Instead, Chinese people use Han to call themselves (汉人), and many other words to call the geographical region of China (e.g. 中原 zhongyuan "middle lands", 华夏 huaxia, 天下 tianxia "under the sky", etc).
The Avatar Rome back in the day blew China out of the water in all regards. The Chinese, in the context of empire were basically African in comparison. It’s an insult to Rome to be called equal to China.
Landry Du Luzon Cute attempt at downplaying China's advancement during that time period, but nah. It's a worthy praise for Rome to be compared as equal to ancient China
I like how he describes the governors of provinces as smaller kings and how the consuls are kings too
Small correction not important at all. I think he named the councils "generals".
Rome had several client kingdoms, he could be talking about those.
Realize that meanings are lost in translation, especially when considering historical political contexts crossing territories and cultures. 'King' should be seen as more so a generic title for any ruler/politician (sovereign or not), rather than our modern understanding of hereditary monarchs.
Well it's a cultural difference, in China Emperor > Kings > Princes > Lords > Nobles > peasants, so the kings he refers to are basically princes.
You're dead, bro.
Wonderful.
Thank you so much .
I look forward to watching and listening to plenty more on your channel .
This is when UA-cam is at its best 👍
This is just incredible. I really wish he would have got to see some of those places. But I am thankful all the same for his writing and thoughts.
"there's a big sea, then there's a river, then west of that another sea, then a river, the some mountains, then, like, some more rivers and seas and that, and then west of that there's a sea and a river" capiche?
I took a wrong turn and now in madagascar........fuck
Got it. Meet you by the fourth tree from the little waterfall in let's say 173 days?
@@martinxy1291 yeah, you're not the first. You must have missed the third "river by a sea" part!
@@Biomirth 👌will be there
@61gisele did you get the bit about the river, mountains, the sea, the river and the mountains? Your grammar nazi ways won't help you on this journey!
amazing read, and can feel the palpable regret in his words of the difficulty of travel in those days.
the chinese Marko Polo
Yeah, I was thinking the same. Each time I read or hear something like this I just wish to be able to bring these people to the present and show them the wonders of the world...they feel very close and relatable in their curiosity about the world, even if separated by centuries.
A possible three year voyage across the Indian Ocean!
@@alanpennie8013 Middle men exaggerate the journey to prevent two wealthy civilizations from connecting directly.
"The common men are tall and virtuous, like the Chinese"
Yea, no bias there.
Although, of course, if you measured them side by side the Chinese would tend to be slightly taller. And more virtuous.
Salty at a 1700 year old text? Lmao
@@pwnmeisterage tf nah it’s the opposite 😂
@@erichuang7524 You're the salty one here.
Have you read the Roman annalists?
8:50-9:18 “Boiled shrimp, broiled shrimp, shrimp salad, shrimp scampi, shrimp burgers...”
Yu Huan to the Romans:
*Ah i see, you're a man of another culture as well*
Teringventje (Check yourself before you wreck yourself)
On a Rainy Night, Lines to be Sent Forth:
“You ask me when I return, but I know not when.
The pools here at Pa Shan overflow with rain.
When will we trim candles by the western window
and the rain of this evening be in our words?”
-Li Shangyin (9th century)
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Nestorian_stele_1.jpg
I can totally imagine the bandits going "Guys the Chinese traders are coming, release the lions" and then offering their "protection services"
Just some guys in a lion costume.
And the Chinese traders are wondering why there are no night watchers.
Sounds bit monty python
“Nahhh no way youll get past there. very dangerous it is. You’ll need to buy guides. And er.. weapons”
“Weapons? I thought there’s no bandits. I can see it from here”
“Right yeh. No bandits. But it looks closer than it is. And it’s real dangerous”
“How dangerous? What’s there?”
“Errr... lions”
“Lions?”
“Yeh lions. Big huge lions. Man eaters. Loads of em”
“I didn’t think there was lions around here”
“Loads of lions here mate. You’ll need guides. And weapons. Annndd.. more cloth. Lions hate cloth.”
“That’s just a man in a furry scarf and a fake nose”
“Nah that’s a lion. King of the animals. Tear you in two he will”
“Roar”
I feel a Lost monty python sketch here
@@paddyb3510 Well, it's Italy and the Balkans after all, we have traditions going back to roman times :D
beautifully done, thanks to the translator and also the original historian's masterful, poetry-like account.
This is amazing! I loved it. It truly is captivating!
I love how he sounds like he's just brainstorming out everything he's ever read or heard about "Da Qin," with hardly any organization.
So gay, you're SO gay.
@ so stupid, you're SO stupid
Jonathan Lake Lovelace Here's another description of Rome from our history book:
"其人民皆长大平正，有类中国，故谓之大秦。--《后汉书·西域传》"
When our ancestors were doing business in this place, they were surprised to find that the local people were tall, strong and polite, and they were very similar to themselves. Naturally, the feeling of kinship emerged in their hearts. So they called it Da Qin.😀
Marco Polo did the exact same thing
@@albertweber1617 *plus lots of lying about having gone their himself and straight cut and pasting from popular fiction of the time.
Europeans: this place is called...
China: No no no, that won't do at all, it's called...
Europeans again, several centuries later: THIS PLACE IS CALLED...
Rome: actually our name is Ro-
China: *You Da Qin now!!!*
@@sabotabby3372 true!
Well you have to consider that he probably never heard a roman say what the land is actually called and only heard it from traders so it was translated over and over leading to what the Chinese called it.
@@maxitouring hmmm, yes, probiably, that does make sense.
This is a wonderful little channel. So nice to chance upon a window into a meeting of civilisations.
"Ancient Chinese Historian Describes The Roman Empire" Oh cool I cant wait to hear the perspective on Ro-
"3rd century"
....
*ohno*
Derpass Twahtskie wait wasn’t that around the time it collapsed
@@QuigleTheGnome Pretty much the beginning of the end for the Roman Empire. It has its highs and some really fucking bad lows. But it was the beginning .
Derpass Twahtskie rip at least Eastern didn’t fall for another 1000 years
@@QuigleTheGnome The Roman Empire officially survived until the 1400s actually. But by then it was just a small city and not a massive empire. The 3rd century was actually an alright time though for the empire.
Default Profile Picture RIP
0:23 this is how primitive GPS sounded like 'Continue straight, you will reach your destination perhaps in one year.'
"Perhaps in three, if there's no wind."
The post office sure is a long lived institution
Still waiting on my colored glass delivery from 300 AD, they say it's in Parthia now
@@grantkeller4634 sorry it is all rome, for the glory of the brutii
I thought the post office was started by the Templar's. Maybe I'm wrong 🤔
@@fiachradillon It's generally accepted by experts, that postman Pat was the originator of the postal service. The Knights Templar are generally associated with creating the modern banking system
In a way, the difference between an advanced civilization and 'other' civilizations is the existence of a reliable means of communication; One that is protected, well managed, consistent, and well respected. Think of the Gauls and other societies on the outskirts of SPQR: They had to meet in person to get anything done, or rely upon trusted couriers who were unpredictable. I love the idea of such pre-industrial societies being so outrageously ambitious with their post. It inspires one to write more letters!
I love watching you guys taking so seriously of the words that were written by an ancient Chinese from more than 1700 years ago and even using his words to speculate the Chinese nowadays. So smart.
I've taken a huge dive into this channel today and I never knew the melancholy one could feel from realizing there will never be an possible way for us today to experience this "serious" type of cultural experience. Absolutely wild. If one could've only been an explorer in these times.
I think the equivalence is us thinking about space. The potential of other extraterrestrial life and civilizations. At least the Romans were real
This sounds like someone's worldbuilding project.
XD
Sounds like George RR Martin describing Sothoryos or the Yi Ti.
Lol with terrible directions.
You will fucking reach the ROMAN empire... never
It's the other way around, worldbuilding is an exercise in trying to replicate history :)
( Game of Thrones Intensifies )
When he says that the Romans "originated in China, but left it" I think he is referrencing the Roman founding myth that they descended from Trojans who fled Asia-minor and settled Italy after the Trojan war. The Chinese seem to have only heard "Asia" and assumed that Troy was in Chinese territory. This would explain why they call the Romans "Da Qin" meaning "great China".
the warner channel That is the most adorable case of national ego I have ever seen
the warner channel I think he was referring to the Chinese historian not you
@@thewarnerchannel7285 yeah I was totally referring to the Chinese
I really doubt the Chinese knew they were living in "Asia". Asia was really Turkey in that time.
The name “Asia” actually once referred to just Anatolia, and was a name used by the Greeks that might have come from Akkadian. After a long time, the name’s meaning became morphed so that “Asia” referred not just to the Anatolian Peninsula, but to the greater landmass beyond as well (what we now know as the continent of Asia). Because of this, Greeks near the end of the classical age started using the name “Mikrà Asía” (Lesser Asia, or as we now know it, Asia Minor) to refer to the peninsula.
Basically, this might be a possibility based on my own flawed and incomplete knowledge. It just matters when “Asia” started meaning more than just Anatolia, and when the Chinese first heard the myth of the Trojans and Aeneas.
'With no wind...perhaps three years.' Really puts my commute into perspective.
Thank you! That was amazing!
For you information, the original text was part of a historic book written by a government official (not by the government tho). This book is mainly about recording the history of a period called Wei, which was really common in ancient China because each time a dynasty collapsed, the new government would write a historic book to record everything happened on the previous dynasty. These historic books are official, and they have almost the exact same structure.
The contents about Roman Empire are included in a chapter that is solely for introducing foreign states (西戎传, "the chapter of western foreigners"), which is routine for every official historic book. Although this book is not an official book, it follows the same structure of contents.
This is the reason why the author wrote down the information about the Roman Empire, but had never been to even anywhere outside of China --- this part was the contents that are not "important" according to the author's opinion but a "must" for completing this book. It's kind of like the introduction part of an essay, maybe 99% of its readers would not pay attention to it, you still need to write it down in an essay.
Thanks James.
@@VoicesofthePast 9:34 is that kingdom supposed to be Vietnam? Khmer aka Cambodia or Cham ?
@@VoicesofthePastDa Qin is not Rome!
@@VoicesofthePastDa Qin is not Rome you pr1ck!!
"We get it bro, they have cloth"
Brightly colored cloth and fine fabric was the mark of wealth, and the ultimate way of showing it in his time.
@@Littlegoatpaws Largely because dying was still quite the dark art at this time. Virtually all dyes were derived from plants (the purple derived from snails being a notable exception), and were not very colour fast, so you'd have to have coloured fabrics redyed when they faded, or continually buy more. It's not until the rise of industry, and chemistry (rather than alchemy) that you find mordants and true colour fast dyes, which is a good millenium in the future at the time of writing
They had asbestos cloth. 🤔
@@lordforlorn9766 That mankind has actually been using asbestos cloth that long is a surprise to me, actually. And yes, it's a real thing. Favored for it's fire proof qualities.
He was getting a lot of his info from merchants , it almost sounded like a catalogue of what was on offer.
Fascinating channel! love your posts!!
I am a Chinese, I am very happy that this UA-camr can show the obscure and forgotten records of ancient Chinese history, I am very happy, thank you🙏
Its so cool hearing an account of Rome from such an alien(to us) perspective. Where we usually learn from the perspective of someone who either lived in the Roman Empire or in its ruins, this is from a completely alien point of view where social customs and culture that are of interest to them are pointed out to us where as most Roman authors wouldn’t have listed things such as juggling at carnivals and types of jade as important.
Heh. The account by Yu Huan in the Weilue also put a lot of focus on various types of cloths apparently. The Romans did that on occasion and even spoke frequently about silk, but the Chinese were obsessed with that sort of thing when talking about the inventories of other known civilizations. It also shows their mercantile priorities and the list of items also demonstrates that the Romans were culturally refined like his fellow Han Chinese.
I agree, It always sounds so magical so mysterious the discretions of ancient Chinese or Japanese or even the accounts of interactions between the Europeans and native Americans. It's almost like reading a fantasy novel. It's almost nostalgic, imaging the world before we completed the maps, back when there still were things to discover.
During the second century, the Chinese court received Syrian/Roman jugglers as a diplomatic gift from one of the Indian Realms (the Saka Kingdom). There was high international demand for exotic performers in the Ancient World. The Chinese saw Roman conjurors before they met Roman envoys...
I totally agree. I had a similar thought
Dr Raoul McLaughlin Oh shit. Never thought I’d see you here dude, love antiquity videos man.
The last part gave me goosebumps when the author speaks about how the world is big
Yes, in ancient times with the lack of techonology the world used to be "bigger"
@@monsterclown4455 barbossa to sparrow : the world is getting smaller (talking about how the world is nearly fully mapped and the rise of beckett) and how the age of piracy is ending.
Monster Clown mis-claimer we where actually smarter then.
@@trureef2319 Individualy that may be so but communally we have much much more information now than ever before.
magma2680 there are pyramids on every continent there was supposedly a ancient cell phone and computer found u don’t think we all had contact at one point rather it be spiritual or physical we communicated just as we as today. It’s a reason Rome history has what they call the dark ages.
"They unceremoniously remove him."
Cesar: You can say that again. To be fair they did tell me to leave my sword outside.
Amazing channel, one of the things that makes me love youtube, thank you
"we don't know much about them" CLOTH TIME
I think he was examining the competition to Chinese silk in this type of the world, I think a lot of his long lists are regarding economy related products.
need me some asbestos cloth
@@Birdman369 Also, sources of knowledge being traders probably means that it's was very popular topic among certain people.
“Long live your ki...”
“ *WE DON’T DO THAT HERE* “
Both these comments are underrated. 🤣
But that's literally what "Ave Caesar" means.
@Lord Farquaad Doesn't necessarily mean "Long Live" Just means "be well". Like, good health to caesar. It's also just a generic polite greeting. Its direct English equivalent is "hail" as in hail mary or hail traveller.
@Lord Farquaad I know, that literally means the same... They are wishing long live to their "king". They were not kings, of course, but to that Chinese man there was no difference.
@@xmaverickhunterkx Caesar is Gaius Julius Caesar's cognomen. The Caesares were a branch of the Julia family. The Name became associated with the Caesar we know today, and after his successor, the emperor Augustus adopted it, with the idea of kingship and ruling
This was so cool, I look forward to more.
This ancient author was truly blessed, he was a deeply curious person and one of lucky few who got to explore foreign worlds. Even though he wouldn’t be able to see it all, he experienced so much during a brief human lifespan. what he writes about the fish is very true- as they would not have even known of the American civilisations yet.
He never got to leave China, this account is based on reports from merchants so he never got to see any of this for himself :')
I love how the author is trying to emphasize the similarities with China like post stations and roads. Funny how he mentions tigers and lions, although lions were native to Greece until the 5# century so he's not completely wrong. He's also correct about the nature of the emperor's title and how could it be obtained. Pretty interesting.
Its because they were curious as Middle Eastern traders portrayed Rome as the equals to China. Ancient China saw itself as having no equals, so of course when their told they have an equal at the opposite ends of the world, their interested.
@Sander Skovly
I don't know, but it's possible.
@@stanleysmith7551 Remember that for him, Egypt and the Middle East are part of Rome and that is where most of his info probably came from.
The lions in the Roman coliseums were the European lion, now extinct because of man.
Asiatic Lions stalked caravans on the frontiers of Syria and Caspian Tigers killed pack animals in Iranian caravans.
That part at the end was heartbreaking. To spend your life learning about places you know you'll never be able to see. Makes me wish I could bring him forward in time, he could be in Da Qin in a day.
The vast majority of people today can't just hop on a plane and travel and the vast majority will never leave their own countries. That last part wasn't sad, the author himself said he loved thinking about these other places. He was being pragmatic, much like someone today might admit they'll never meet their favourite singer but they'll read about them online and follow their tweets. That guy was as passionate about places he's never seen as historians are about times they've never lived in or A Song of Ice and Fire fans were before realising the last books will probably never be written - now that's a real tragedy.
Bring him to a anime convention.
It still applies to modern day humans, but now, our version of far off lands are other planets and solar systems.
Ioso Sop
Put the pea as a example of the sun, now put us to scale.
The furthest we’ve ever traveled is 1.3cm off of earth, the nearest star is Kilometers away and 2 hour drive, our deepest space probe is 10ft away.
Take 3 steps, 4 steps, now for the last step and you’ve overshot and passed the probe.
We’re still on the moon task list, just peeking out at mars and deciding which is the best option.
No. He could be in modern Iraly in a day . He wouldn't be able to see ancient Rome any better now than during his lifetime.
"They have appointed 36 leaders, or generals, who discuss evens frequently. If one leader does not show up, there's no discussion."
Sounds an awful lot like modern senates as well! Thanks, Romans.
Aren't modern senates based off the roman senates? S'why the "SPQR" exists. 'Senatum Populusque Romanum' meaning 'Senate and the Roman People'
Uhh, yeah... did you not know that most of the American political institutions were lifted from Rome and Greece? Democracy, republic, senate, various political terms like oligarchy, dictator, etc.
😆 I'm loving these, well done
This is a blessing
No, it's just an inaccurate account from 1800 years ago.
@@TheFissionchips the fact that we have a chinese perspective on Rome, a civilization on the other side of the world is astonishibg and highly interesting. That is the blessing
Thanks pal!
This is so interesting. Makes you think about all those cultures about which we have only or mostly outside sources. How many misconceptions do we have because of that?
Nice bit of introspection from the author at the end. It would be easy to make fun of him writing about bamboo and tigers in Italy, but he was clearly trying to learn and describe as much as he could of the vast and mysterious world, realizing how greatly limited he was in this endeavor.
Edit: I meant to post this comment simply under the video, instead I somehow ended posting it as a response to Aron's. I guess it actually works too.
Couldn't agree more
I really like his disclaimer at the end. Wisdom is knowing you don’t know everything
i cant tell you how cool this is, so glad i stumbled upon this. I have never seen an ancient eastern view on western civilization before.
I love his lists. He throws all kinds of things in together that seem to have nothing to do with each other. It's quite charming.
Your reading of this was absolutely superb. Edited to add: It was a performance, not merely a "reading".
poetic to me.... enjoyable to listen to
Felt like the traveler was talking to me
大秦( Da Qin) means Great Qin. The ancient Chinese thought Roman Empire as another huge nation founded by the people from its previous Qin Dynasty. Unlike Anxi which was translated from Arsi ( official name of Parthia ) , people in 3rd century AD China didn't even know the name of "Roma". All their knowledge about Rome was acquired from Parthia or Sassanid Persia and that is why the later East Roman Empire ( or Byzantium Empire ) was called 拂霖( Fu Lin) which is derived from Persian " Vrum" .
I am from Parthia - we are still call ourselves total Arses.
arseman arse: it’s necessary for riding.
@Konstantinos Palaiologos No - it is good the west was not exposed to the slanted Chinese civilisation - they can keep the one stringed cello, chopsticks and worthless artworks.
@N5ZZ0 But what about Principled Catholic Doctrine like the Papal Bull "Cum nimis absurdum" issued by Pope Paul IV in 1555 to ensure all jews in Rome were walled up in the Roman Ghetto? It takes its name from the Bull’s first words: "Since it is absurd and utterly inconvenient that the Jews, who through their own fault were condemned by God to eternal slavery..."
Under the Papal Bull, Jewish males were required to wear a pointed yellow hat, and Jewish females a yellow kerchief and their livelihood limited to dealing in second hand clothes and walled up in a ghetto overnight - up until 1870 when the Italian risorgimento abolished Papal rule in Italy. (The creation of Vatican City and a yearly massive cash donative was later agreed upon by Mussolini and Pius XI in 1929)
Mmmm ... sounds familiar ....reminds me of the actions of a certain Austrian Catholic ruler in the 1930s and 40s who resurrected the 3rd Holy Roman Empire, 10,000 of whose followers managed to get to Argentina a bit later with the help of the Vatican..... errr....where the Pope is from….errrr….which is obviously a total coincidence.
Nothing to see here.
Let’s move on.
Ehrrmmmm…..as I was saying - let us continue to adore the One Holy Apostolic Church - that made Bolivia, Peru, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala and Paraguay into those ‘shining cities on a hill’ and inspired the youthful morality of Rodrigo Borgia, Dr. Joe Mengele, Hugo Chavez, Carlos The Jackal,, Heinrich Himmler, Mel Gibson, Adolf Hitler and Che Guevara.
Bravo !! Well done Rome !!
Of course, having said that, I must say that my favorite Dear Leader is Chairman Mao. He Purged 70 million thought-criminals from China, more than any other Dear Leader anywhere else - also Pol Pot because he liquidated 1/3 of his beloved nation Kampuchea. Bravo again !!
arseman arse you need to leave those drugs alone.
This channel is so amazing.