As long as you can! When I was 16 I practiced as much as I could. Not just the rudiments though. The only thing distracting me was sports and girls. They still distract me! In a good way. These days there are more distractions with all the game systems, facebook, youtube, etc. The struggle is deciding what is important to you. Discipline - remembering what you want.
Hi John, I loved the mention of Float. Good dude; probably one of the best. I had the opportunity to work for and with him back in my giggin' days. I'll never forget his kindness and generosity. He will be missed. And thanks for all this great material. I share it all with my students. Best!
I totally agree with this too John. When I first started my rudiments at age 9 my instructors were taught by Marty in the cadets. Now those fundamentals with where the hands need to be while playing the notes also allows us to play faster and softer or louder and faster and not get tired. 40 years playing drums this year and I still love the rudiments. I take them with me wherever or whatever I play!
I really appreciate Dr. Wooten's approach and the fact that he is able to defend it intellectually. There is more than one way to drum, and personally this approach has worked for me. It all starts at the fundamentals and there are commonalities that can be transferred to every percussion instrument.
Another thing, while I am thinking about it. If you were to teach someone to play with a large range of motion, dynamics and speed, you could easily have them cut back and play simply with the wrists and fingers. However, if someone is taught to use a limited motion from the beginning they would struggle to play with any kind of range of motion, dynamics, control or speed. Of course it is easier to learn and easier to teach a limited range of motion and it might serve your purpose... Not mine.
These are not tricks, these ARE the fundamentals. There are four rudiments... Rebound stroke, controlled stroke, taps (soft rebound strokes) and up stroke. The quick way would be to eliminate any of those from a drummers vocabulary. Your point is to not have students lack basic skills and to give them a strong foundation but what you are saying is doing just that. It's a short cut! My teacher, Marty Hurley, refused to teach these short cuts and I thank him for that. I am passionate about this.
Your comments are not inappropriate at all. This is what you have been taught and what you believe. I am glad you said something because I know there are a lot of people that feel the same way you do. I am just telling you where I come from. I have students I have to convince of my philosophy every day. When they buy into it, they are no longer just flam drag jedis, but musicians who can now feel comfortable behind a drum set. The "Nope" will have to be more informative for me to comment.
I love "Legato" Drumlines myself as well. And I know that they would tend toward the more open sounding flams. It's just a tricky road, and flams are always the toughest to clean. Practicing upstroke at slower tempos is a must to be able to access it at faster tempos, totally agreed.
My biggest point: With all the new resurgence of Moeller, Push/Pull, Up-Stroke. ("The Tricks" if you will) is you see a lot of students looking for the quick way. And they end up lacking certain basic techniques that you need as a strong foundation to be able to even to understand the other ideas.
I think many hopeful rudimental snare drummers are, and should be, watching your videos. Therefore they should know that your example of flam space would be too open in a line situation. It's important to be able to control your flam space, open or closed. Again however, we should always define which works when.
One other thought... There are many ways you can play things in a drum line. Uniformity does not mean "Stiff." The most expressive drum lines played the loosest. Your technique should allow you to play with as much soul as you want to. Technique should not corrupt the music, it should enhance the music in whatever way you want it to. This I feel very passionate about because I teach music, not technique.
I truly appreciate your videos. There aren’t a lot out there that have as much information to share as yours do. I subscribed to Vic Firth’s UA-cam page because of your videos. However when you get comments like “Nope” from other viewers, they obviously need a little more info. I know these videos take time for you, and I apologies if you feel that my comments were inappropriate. I am definitely not looking to get into a huge online debate (I understand I started it). That is all...
John, It's too bad that you 100% disagree. I don't 100% disagree with your approach. I'm just wanting to clarify certain bits of information. Your absolutely right, Ralph Never taught anybody to play to play flat flams, he was referring to playing "tick free" as you say. And I do believe your flam sound would be perfect for all the other genres you've just stated.
First: Dr. John Wooten has an amazing resume, and is great individual player. Second: I have an issue with his approach. He needs to mention that this really won't be an appropriate way to play these rudiments in a drumline. His example of flam drags would be impossible to clean between players. I too like more open flams, but if your trying to help a player play clean in a line always follow Ralph Hardimon's saying "When in Doubt, Flat 'em out"
Lastly, Up Stroke needs to be used with caution! This is like driving a Lamborghini through city streets. Up Stroke should be used only for up tempo examples of these exercises. It's your turbo charger. Build horsepower by building muscle and chops, then access your turbo charger, when you hit your tempo wall.
Legato strokes came from timpani technique. You cannot play legato on a snare drum so I call them rebound strokes. Our strokes are used for efficiency and power. Our only form of articulation is loud, soft or somewhere in between. Flams are tough to clean but they should NEVER be flat. That is a horrible sound on a drum. You can clean them if they are not super tight. Once again, no short cuts here. Teaching someone to play flat flams is just pedagogically wrong. Might win a trophy though.
To SDDrummingTV and everyone else that may differ in my philosophy... I in no way meant any of my comments to be personal. If my emotions ran high it is because I am passionate about rudimental drumming pedagogy and I am speaking from many years of experience in the drum corps, indoor marching, drum set, orchestral, Latin percussion worlds.
I've played that game, but it doesn't make for good music. A double stop is not a flam and nasty. Also, you should absolutely practice the up stroke at slower tempi. This is the only way you will learn how to do it quickly and correctly. It will give you speed but more importantly, you won't sound stiff, which is a common problem amongst many rudimental players. I am not a rudimental drummer, I am a musician and my technique must serve the music, my technique must be a means to an end.
I do 100% disagree with your philosophy, and it's ok, I started this discussion by posting this video. However, I believe you and many others are confused as to what basic technique is. There is no resurgence of Moeller or whatever you want to call it. It is common sense drumming and has always been there in drum and fife corps, drum set players and several expressive corps like Gussack's and McNutt's.
I 100 percent disagree with you. This is exactly how you should play these rudiments in a drum line. This is a transferable technique that you can use in a drum line, on an orchestral snare drum, on a drum set, etc... The technique you are talking about is non transferable. I would never want to listen to someone play drum set like that and I am glad that Marty Hurley took no short cuts when teaching us. Ralph is my buddy but what he is referring to is trying to stay tick free.
the velocity is not the objetive.....the objetive is rutines practices.....the rudiments fast are no nice for me....why dont we talk about of a good excecution before the fast tempos? i hurt myself traying go fast to much time.....MY GOD WHAT A BAD OBSECION TO PLAY FAST......watch Bruce Backer. and look how he grip his sticks, he grip very soft......anyway, thanks to john to show as the rudiments.....
As long as you can! When I was 16 I practiced as much as I could. Not just the rudiments though. The only thing distracting me was sports and girls. They still distract me! In a good way. These days there are more distractions with all the game systems, facebook, youtube, etc. The struggle is deciding what is important to you. Discipline - remembering what you want.
Hi John, I loved the mention of Float. Good dude; probably one of the best. I had the opportunity to work for and with him back in my giggin' days. I'll never forget his kindness and generosity. He will be missed. And thanks for all this great material. I share it all with my students. Best!
I totally agree with this too John. When I first started my rudiments at age 9 my instructors were taught by Marty in the cadets. Now those fundamentals with where the hands need to be while playing the notes also allows us to play faster and softer or louder and faster and not get tired. 40 years playing drums this year and I still love the rudiments. I take them with me wherever or whatever I play!
I really appreciate Dr. Wooten's approach and the fact that he is able to defend it intellectually. There is more than one way to drum, and personally this approach has worked for me. It all starts at the fundamentals and there are commonalities that can be transferred to every percussion instrument.
Another thing, while I am thinking about it. If you were to teach someone to play with a large range of motion, dynamics and speed, you could easily have them cut back and play simply with the wrists and fingers. However, if someone is taught to use a limited motion from the beginning they would struggle to play with any kind of range of motion, dynamics, control or speed. Of course it is easier to learn and easier to teach a limited range of motion and it might serve your purpose... Not mine.
Ha. "if you can play flam drags... you're pretty cool"
Dr. John Wooton, Thanks. These lessons are great. I love your approach and the fact that you are dedicated. Excellent job, keep up the good work!
These are not tricks, these ARE the fundamentals. There are four rudiments... Rebound stroke, controlled stroke, taps (soft rebound strokes) and up stroke. The quick way would be to eliminate any of those from a drummers vocabulary. Your point is to not have students lack basic skills and to give them a strong foundation but what you are saying is doing just that. It's a short cut! My teacher, Marty Hurley, refused to teach these short cuts and I thank him for that. I am passionate about this.
i love this guy
Your comments are not inappropriate at all. This is what you have been taught and what you believe. I am glad you said something because I know there are a lot of people that feel the same way you do. I am just telling you where I come from. I have students I have to convince of my philosophy every day. When they buy into it, they are no longer just flam drag jedis, but musicians who can now feel comfortable behind a drum set. The "Nope" will have to be more informative for me to comment.
I love "Legato" Drumlines myself as well. And I know that they would tend toward the more open sounding flams. It's just a tricky road, and flams are always the toughest to clean.
Practicing upstroke at slower tempos is a must to be able to access it at faster tempos, totally agreed.
How long (on average) would you recommend practicing these rudiments a day? And when you were 16 how long did you use to practice them? :)
This is some great advice. Well played too! Good hands!
My biggest point: With all the new resurgence of Moeller, Push/Pull, Up-Stroke. ("The Tricks" if you will) is you see a lot of students looking for the quick way. And they end up lacking certain basic techniques that you need as a strong foundation to be able to even to understand the other ideas.
I think many hopeful rudimental snare drummers are, and should be, watching your videos. Therefore they should know that your example of flam space would be too open in a line situation.
It's important to be able to control your flam space, open or closed. Again however, we should always define which works when.
I love the way he phrases the flam 5’s... so open and tasty
One other thought... There are many ways you can play things in a drum line. Uniformity does not mean "Stiff." The most expressive drum lines played the loosest. Your technique should allow you to play with as much soul as you want to. Technique should not corrupt the music, it should enhance the music in whatever way you want it to. This I feel very passionate about because I teach music, not technique.
who on earth disliked this video?
Andre Ferreira Freitas 5 people who can't play flam drags lol
@@HitTheCuando yeah and what about it✋🏻
I truly appreciate your videos. There aren’t a lot out there that have as much information to share as yours do. I subscribed to Vic Firth’s UA-cam page because of your videos. However when you get comments like “Nope” from other viewers, they obviously need a little more info.
I know these videos take time for you, and I apologies if you feel that my comments were inappropriate. I am definitely not looking to get into a huge online debate (I understand I started it). That is all...
"Play it loud... but quietly." That's very Zen.
John,
It's too bad that you 100% disagree. I don't 100% disagree with your approach. I'm just wanting to clarify certain bits of information. Your absolutely right, Ralph Never taught anybody to play to play flat flams, he was referring to playing "tick free" as you say. And I do believe your flam sound would be perfect for all the other genres you've just stated.
First: Dr. John Wooten has an amazing resume, and is great individual player.
Second: I have an issue with his approach. He needs to mention that this really won't be an appropriate way to play these rudiments in a drumline. His example of flam drags would be impossible to clean between players. I too like more open flams, but if your trying to help a player play clean in a line always follow Ralph Hardimon's saying "When in Doubt, Flat 'em out"
This is actually like the now famous Blushda but alternating hands.
Strong Stuff brother. Nice and Cheesy.
Lastly,
Up Stroke needs to be used with caution!
This is like driving a Lamborghini through city streets. Up Stroke should be used only for up tempo examples of these exercises. It's your turbo charger. Build horsepower by building muscle and chops, then access your turbo charger, when you hit your tempo wall.
Legato strokes came from timpani technique. You cannot play legato on a snare drum so I call them rebound strokes. Our strokes are used for efficiency and power. Our only form of articulation is loud, soft or somewhere in between. Flams are tough to clean but they should NEVER be flat. That is a horrible sound on a drum. You can clean them if they are not super tight. Once again, no short cuts here. Teaching someone to play flat flams is just pedagogically wrong. Might win a trophy though.
To SDDrummingTV and everyone else that may differ in my philosophy... I in no way meant any of my comments to be personal. If my emotions ran high it is because I am passionate about rudimental drumming pedagogy and I am speaking from many years of experience in the drum corps, indoor marching, drum set, orchestral, Latin percussion worlds.
Thanks! that helped so much!
Haha put some cheddar on there. Great lesson.
I've played that game, but it doesn't make for good music. A double stop is not a flam and nasty. Also, you should absolutely practice the up stroke at slower tempi. This is the only way you will learn how to do it quickly and correctly. It will give you speed but more importantly, you won't sound stiff, which is a common problem amongst many rudimental players. I am not a rudimental drummer, I am a musician and my technique must serve the music, my technique must be a means to an end.
I guess like they told me at ken Stanton music " it's baby steps"....lol....
This is great
I do 100% disagree with your philosophy, and it's ok, I started this discussion by posting this video. However, I believe you and many others are confused as to what basic technique is. There is no resurgence of Moeller or whatever you want to call it. It is common sense drumming and has always been there in drum and fife corps, drum set players and several expressive corps like Gussack's and McNutt's.
cue the catchy music!
Flam drag isn't a Hybrid in case you didn't know
He looks like Arnie and talks like obama
I think he talks like Woody Harrelson and looks like super man. Great teacher.
Haha, it's the same for me now! Just need that extra bit of discipline :)
Oh a btw, thanks for the advice !
(throws stick in fireplace)
I 100 percent disagree with you. This is exactly how you should play these rudiments in a drum line. This is a transferable technique that you can use in a drum line, on an orchestral snare drum, on a drum set, etc... The technique you are talking about is non transferable. I would never want to listen to someone play drum set like that and I am glad that Marty Hurley took no short cuts when teaching us. Ralph is my buddy but what he is referring to is trying to stay tick free.
the velocity is not the objetive.....the objetive is rutines practices.....the rudiments fast are no nice for me....why dont we talk about of a good excecution before the fast tempos? i hurt myself traying go fast to much time.....MY GOD WHAT A BAD OBSECION TO PLAY FAST......watch Bruce Backer. and look how he grip his sticks, he grip very soft......anyway, thanks to john to show as the rudiments.....
haha, 3:30
i Do flams
Nobody that can play flam drags is cool.
Clearly you haven't met Eric M. Carr. He has a youtube channel called "EMC productions". Check him out