3 ways to ruin your Tesla battery and how much a new one cost
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- 3 ways to ruin your Tesla battery and how much a new one cost
My referral code: ts.la/sean510
I need to replace my battery: • I need to replace my T...
Teslanomics on battery degradation: • Tesla Batteries Last F...
Battery degradation shared by owners: docs.google.co...
Owners can give five friends free, unlimited Supercharging with the purchase of a new Model S, Model X or Model 3 Performance. After September 16, 2018, full unlimited Supercharging will go away and owners will be able to give friends one year of unlimited Supercharging.
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#Tesla #ModelS #ElonMusk - Авто та транспорт
![The TRUE COST Of Fixing An Electric Car Battery | High Mileage Tesla [Episode 5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QstBDw7UJ6Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Get to the point.
1. Don’t full charge.
2. Don’t empty.
3. Keep it warm.
Thanks. Here’s to hoping more videos have this in their description.
Thanks lol 😂
Last point: cost to replace battery is $15k - $20k
Thank you
4. If and when you can, avoid DC charging. The least DC, the better. Keep DC charging under 40% of total charging.
Take the 75kwh pack but use the hilltop reserve limiting it to about 85-90% max charge, best of all worlds.
This is likely my plan...
Sean Mitchell Cheapest way is to keep the software limited 60 and charge it to 100 % Every day which equals 86 % of of 75 kWh total capacity ...
This video just made the argument on not paying to remove the software cap on the replacement battery if you plan on keeping the Tesla for a while. Upgrade it when you plan on getting rid of it for better resell value.
This also means if you are looking for a used Tesla, it's better to wait for a used Model 3, as there are currently no lease available on it, therefore owners are more likely to baby their batteries vs people who lease their S or X. Plus there is no free super charging on the 3, so a lot less chance of it being used, unless the milage is really high on it.
I found that charging beyond 95% under any circumstance is pointless because it slows way down to charge it to top it off. The last 5% isn't worth it and it's never good for a battery of any kind as it puts it to its limit. I usually just set the max charge at 80% or 90% if im going a little farther and rarely let it get below 15%. I don't think I've had it go below 11% ever due to range anxiety.
Battery university shows about 60% is a good SOC long term average to maximise battery life i.e. small daily topups if driving short distances, the closer you can stay to 60% the better (3.92 V per cell)
Gave a 👍🏻 Thanks confirmed some battery tips what I had heard by other commentators. Though I heard a battery engineer suggest to keep SOC between 20% and 70% so this is what I do with my MS P100D - but I have the luxury of the bigger pack to only go to 70%
Panasonic actually says that keeping it between 10% and 90% will make it last basically forever, as seen here:
blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b/
Good summary of how to use your battery. I will call it the 80/20 rule.
Can we download an app (from the Tesla app store) ... onto/into a Tesla car ... to automatically prevent undercharging/overcharging the battery?
Overcharge prevention is built into the car. There's a slider bar to tell it where you want it to stop charging. Low charge is simply you making sure to charge it before you get low.
●●● I find that being told to NOT charge a Tesla's battery to 100% is what I consider a vehicle flaw.
After all, I can fill my vehicle's gas tank completely full for years on end, and it doesn't affect the vehicle's performance. Electric vehicle manufacturers should design their vehicles in the same way, in my opinion.
Sean you mentioned charging at a higher voltage for long times can be problematic. Is there any harm in charging with low voltage for the long term? For example, leaving it plugged into a 120V 15A outlet for 24 hours straight etc. I'm aware the 120V is less efficient energy wise, but is it harmful to the battery in anyway?
No, the charging method is a rounding error in battery lifespan, and there is either no data or contradicting data that fast charging is better or worse for the battery lifespan.
Hi I live in the Midwest and I go to a wormer climate for 2 months, out of the country what do you recommend that I should do to keep the battery in good condition?
No issues with lower voltage, for long or short periods.
The best option is to buy an EV with a temperature management system that helps pump coolant through the pack. Nissan Leaf is the only EV that is not liquid cooled.
Bla bla bla ..... 1:don’t charge full, 2:don’t empty, 3:bla bla bla.... and Battery Cost: $10-20k
Thanks. Glad you liked the video.
Dr Aviation, I have 57k miles with a loss of 10 miles of range, I use SC often and charge 80-90% and discharge to 10%. The trick is to not let the car sit at those ranges, drive it immediately and charge it immediately. Blah, blah, blah...
I could actually feel the aging process while watching this.
Thanks - this is exactly what I was looking for hahaha. @Sean Mitchell you should add this summary (but maybe with a less dismissive tone) to your description!
🙂
Never run a "rechargeable battery" to Zero!
If you cannot let the battery go to zero, then you cannot put the car in storage for any length of time, right?
DIOSpeedDemon
Charge then store. Don’t discharge then store.
I read a story, I don't know if it is true, where a customer bought a new Tesla and decided to store it in a storage unit and keep it pristine, for a future investment. Well he goes to start the thing six months later, the battery is dead and the car wont start. He calls the company and says he needs a new battery and his situation. The company supposedly told him that the fine print of the warranty explained you can Never let the better completely discharge, or it kills the Brain in the battery, whatever that is. They said they could do a new battery for 37,000$ US Dollars, and that is all they could do about it. Is this true about discharging the battery? Thanks
Battery Tender for Tesla 🤔
iPhone/cellphone 📲 battery?
It's not really the so called "High Voltage" that damages the battery...it's the high current.
Long winded way to tell use not to charge to 100% or go down below 20 percent too often.
why bother, if you manage to do anything remotely damaging its under warranty
@@analogueavenue how long do you think is enough to tell people not to min or max a battery?
@@richardroberson9277 No, "degradation" is not covered. I asked Tesla in Bristol UK whether, if I only had ten miles of range, my battery would be replaced/repaired under warranty, she said, no, degradation is not covered, only if the battery fails (i.e. stops working altogether) will it be fixed under warranty! Recent cars have a warranty that says it will be fixed if it falls below 70% of original capacity.
Thank you for these valuable tips, Sean, though I did get other information as well that charging with SC or home/destination charger would only affect the battery in (at most) just a few percentages. I was shown the same Excel as you have showed, I think. Another thing that I can add here is that it's not good to charge to 100% and then leave the car parked afterwards. So if you are on the way and you sleep somewhere in a hotel near a SC, it's better to start SC in the morning before you leave, instead of the evening before and then leave the car parked all night. Just my 2 cents ;-)...
Thanks for the honest review without trying to cover up your mistakes, and sharing them with all of us that are new to Tesla. For one I am much appreciative of your video Thanks
You are right- 60 kw battery is not for a real estate agent. You need a 3, or an X, or an S. With the largest battery they have. And stop charging to 100%
Agree!
How many miles/day do you typically drive? How many miles on peak days?
I think your battery actually comes with a 70kw battery, which is why you can purchase additional range via a software update. Some people say that charging up to 100% on a 60D is actually 85% because the battery is the same as a 70D and the available range is only limited by software. Others say that charging up to 100% on a 60D is still 100% because the extra battery capacity is not being charged.
Superchargers really destroy the battery even tesla told me that, more Supercharging = faster battery degradation
Just like you shouldn't rev a ICE car all the time because it will damage the engine over time. EVs have a different way to care for them than an ICE car.
oisiaa it is good to get the rpms up once in awhile to get that carbon buildup out. I drove the snot out of my older cars and they all got over 200,000 miles. Maintenance is also key.
But the newer cars are sensitive just like the millennials.
Thank you, Sean; this was good info. We purchased our long-range model 3 in March of 2018 and absolutely love it.
Funny. I’ve never charged to 100%. When I got my Model 3, it was at 90% because I asked them to do that for me. I was fully aware about battery degregation well ahead of time. I drive a lot but not where I need to use SC. I charge at home every three days. I have my charging limit set for 279mi and I try not to let it get below 80 miles left in usage. Good info and video.
Thanks for the feedback Andre.
I am waiting for the standard range Model 3 so I am interest with the charging strategy. I think Tesla recommends 10%-90% daily range usage and can be charged to 100% on occasional trips. If this is the recommendation I would keep the range to 20%-80% to be safe, no need to stay in the narrower range of 30%-70%.
I don't even see why you'd charge to 100% even on long trips, unless you need exactly 15 extra miles and you don't want to stop again for charging. You charge faster below 80% than above 80% so your time is better spent driving more and stopping more frequently (but for a shorter duration).
I agree, but it doesn't hurt to charge to 100% before a trip as long as you're not leaving the car sitting there fully charged for a while.
The model 3 manual states to plug the car in when you can to help preserve the battery. That doesn't match your practice is charging every 3 days or so.
Right now towards the end of 2919, the battery cost 12K. So yes. Battery will get cheaper in 1-2 more years. That's when I'm buying a Tesla.
How's life in 2919? Btw, who won the 2020 Super Bowl and what was the score?
Stop calling yourself Uncle Sean wtf lol
Thanks for the tips....I have a new Chevy Bolt.
G a y
Get the model 3 with the bigger battery. You most likely don't need a bigger car. And the battery pack in the 3 is supposed to be an improvement.
It's in the newest owners manual (for the model S). They say not to charge to 100% unless you have no choice due to a large distance to the next charging station. And it also says that supercharging all the time is a bad idea as well. Best to use the home charger at 240v and 50 or 60 amps service. The faster you charge a lithium battery the more you stress it and reduce life. And any lithium battery is damaged when draining to empty. I don't know what percentage corresponds to the minimum charge level for a Tesla battery, but 20% is as good a guess as any. You'd have to know the minimum allowable voltage for each independent cell in the battery. In typical lithium packs this is 3.6 or 3.7v resting voltage before damage starts to occur (this is 20% in typical lithium packs). I'm guessing Tesla's battery is probably quite different and I don't know where their "20% level" is relative to the minimum voltage of their cells. Finally the manual says to always leave the Tesla plugged in the home charging station when idle, because the battery is always being used by the car even when it's idle (they don't want it to run down to zero unattended). Not sure if this is necessarily a great idea. I would guess it's better to keep the car 50% to 60% charge when it's sitting for long periods. Of course you could set up the car to stop a charge at 50% (when sitting for long periods) and keep it there while plugged in. And then when you're going to start driving it again, go in and move it back to 80% the night before. This is based on 17 years of practical experience that I have with lithium batteries fwiw.
I hope you can get a new battery. I would love to see a Tesla with a million miles on it someday. best of luck . I always enjoy your videos
Thanks John!
ok. so it sounds like a lot of money had been lost for the desire of driving electric vehicle at any cost plus charging time. It might be some hybrid car would do a way better job much cheaper?
Have a Model S P90DL. In three years I’m on my third battery. I almost never charge above the “Daily” charge level - probably only fully charged a dozen or so times. I also very rarely discharge to very low levels. When I reported my battery problems Tesla reviewed the logs and the main problem was the Wide Open Throttle (WOT) count which is very high. What I’m saying is the fourth way to destroy the battery is to thrash the car with very hard acceleration. Treat it gently guys....
Well, that's a buzz kill. I have a Chevy Bolt that I thrash every time I take it out. Was wondering why i have lost capacity....WOOOOOOT, WOOOOOOOT, WOOOOOOOT
Did Tesla pay, or did you have to?
I wonder if that's my problem!
Thank you Sean, I know this is an old video, but as a expecting Tesla Model 3 Owner and UA-camr, this was very insightful. Our LR M3 will get 310 miles of range and keeping it between 20% DoD and 80% SOC will give us 186 miles of usable range. Thank you for making this video!
Congrats on the Model 3! And thanks for the great content as well! 🙂
And if you want to get into the science behind it, watch this video: How Tesla batteries work with PhD scholar Ravindra Kempaiah ua-cam.com/video/18MYRkx_Vr4/v-deo.html
1. Don't charge to 100%
2. Don't deplete charge below 30%
3. Don't Super Charge
4. Don't buy a Tesla.
4. dont drive
@Omrito H yea you save energy at your expense.
Don't eat, don't drink
I'll stick to my corolla
Those 3 things you mentioned will not kill the battery but degrade t. Battery needs replacement due to real problem, NOT degradation.
Good point. Many people still don't understand that li-ion EV batteries typically don't die as other chemistries do. They will certainly lose capacity but at an increasingly slower rate. A Tesla battery may lose 15-20 percent after 100,000 miles but only another 10 percent by 200,000. The decay rate actually slows as the battery gets older, to a point. At a certain point (probably well north of 300,000 miles) it will begin dropping like a stone. Data from Tesla owners is showing that properly maintained these batteries could go to to 500,000 miles before the capacity falls below 50 percent. Google "Tesla battery life" for some interesting information.
@@Tron-Jockey You are a bit off. The forecast is that Tesla will be able to drive 500,000 miles when capacity drops to 80%, not 50%.
The battery degradation appears to be around 1% per 30,000 miles driven. Some of the initial loss happens faster, and then slows down.
There is no data showing it dropping like a stone at any point. People consider 80% capacity to be the time where the pack will be swapped out due to age and loss of range. Since the time it will take to get there will probably decades, by that time, a far better and cheaper pack will be available with a far longer range.
Since people in the USA keep their cars around 6.5 years on average, odds are the original owner would have moved on, long before that ever becomes an issue.
@@redbaron6805 - Yeh, I just Googled "Tesla Battery life" and found its much better than I had previously thought. Excellent info, thanks Baron.
@@redbaron6805 Tesla reps say you'll get about 70% loss after 120k. Disappointing to hear, but reality is reality.
@@Aerials-lw3yw 70% at 120K is not reality. Reality is 80% after 500,000 miles, as seen here:
teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capacity-840km-1-million-km/
Sean Nissan says that it doesn't hurt to charge a 2018 Nissan Leaf battery to 100%. Is the Tesla battery different?
Brian Foster I’m going to take a guess and say they are probably the same type of battery which is similar to to a laptop one... the difference would probably be on how they maintain the temperature of the battery .... from what I know when it come to lithium ion battery’s it is best to keep them at that 80%,20%
Is buying a new battery the same as buying a new engine? As in does the mileage go back to 0?
Definitely get a LR RWD Model 3!!! Super range and cheaper than a S.
Wrong
@@mmp11472, are you saying the 325 mile range isn't super or that it isn't cheaper than an S?
It sounds like you are *the* Worst Case Scenario for any car (but kudos for choosing an EV!)
Also, good job advising EV users how to make the most of their battery, but you seem annoyed at getting three times the performance I do for twice the cost. Though it's inevitable that you're going to have to replace your battery...because...Entropy.
It cost $5500 for a new 24kWh battery in my Leaf, and Nissan ate it because of a class action. (Free battery after 50K miles, yay!) I had almost two years of knowing this to beat the crap out of my battery, getting it down to 70% capacity by the time I got a new one. But this is Year Three with this 2015 battery (over 12,000 miles,) and it's still over 92% capacity (I use LeafSpy).
And you're not paying for oil changes, or anything else associated with an ICE car (including time for someone to effect repairs.) Even $15K every 300,000 miles would be a great deal. And think how much time you save with an EV, or how many terrorists and religious fanatics you don't support. EVs rock, and Teslas rock harder; be delighted that you have one! (Though if you don't like yours, I'll trade you anytime. I'll even bring it to you myself.)
Elon recommends 90% daily now
What if you only drive locally around 20 miles per day? If I can keep it at 50-60% would that be better? Should I charge to 60% each day if that is all I need?
That advise is very useful not just for cars but to all other devices or appliances that use Lithium Ion batteries, including battery powered electric tools, cellphones, radios, cameras, tablet computers and laptop computers, etc. Thanks for the advice.
It's not about getting a free battery because you have a warranty. It's about avoiding destroying the battery so that you can be more friendly with the environment. Every ruined battery has an environmental cost.
The warranty is for defects, not mistreatment. So, if you actually don't need to keep charing your Tesla to 100% every night, then you shouldn't.
Also, by properly caring for your battery, you are saving Tesla a lot of money. Therefor, you are adding to their probability of succeeding as a business and thus succeeding at reducing our dependence on fossil fuel and reducing greenhouse emissions.
T- Smooth, So you're an environmentalist?
Terje Oseberg I think that's what he was acknowledging at the end.
T- Smooth, I'm glad you care so much about the environment. I'm sure you avoid wasting your batteries by misusing them.
Despite the fact that the lithium, cobalt, nickel, and other materials can be recovered from the batteries, there's still the cost of energy required to perform the recycling. Therefor it is best to maximize the longevity of your batteries regardless of our ability to recycle the raw materials of which they are composed.
cleantechnica.com/2018/06/07/yes-tesla-recycles-all-of-its-spent-batteries-wants-to-do-more-in-the-future/
www.recyclingtoday.com/article/tesla-umicore-battery-packs/
Yes, Tesla has been very firm about saying they recycle and reuse old batteries. They've never gone into detail but hope someday they explain exactly what it is they do with them.
Terje Oseberg then Tesla needs to stop advertising the range of their car at 100% charge level and advertise the range at the 80% level, as that is what you are expected to do daily. If they advertise the range at 100% level, I should be able to do that daily without it being labeled as abusing the battery, otherwise it's false advertising, as the additional 20% should be consider a reserve for emergency instead.
“Three ways to ruin a Tesla battery” is correct grammar. These days the “your” term is abused and misused terribly. Thanks
this is why people should always get a larger battery vs any other option when buying an EV... Tesla battery engineer says keep it in 30% to 70%
Most manufacturers would recommend between 10 and 80. That"s also the sweet spot when you go fast charging and that's for a reason.
@@Hans-gb4mv No, they wouldn't. 30% to 70% is the best, that's what the Chevy Volt does.
Elon Musk recently said that charging to 90% daily should be just fine. Maybe even 95% would be okay.
He also said that running the battery down to 5% should be okay too.
The key is not to let the battery sit for very long with it below 20% or greater than 95%.
@@VoltLover00 Except, data shows the lifespan difference between 30% and 70% and 10% and 90% is almost irrelevant.
blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b/
Any engineer will tell you that (myself being one) although 30-70% is too tight you are fine as long as you don’t completely discharge. If you fully charge you shouldn’t leave it stored that way. Nature of the chemistry. Some chemistries (such as those with phosphate cathodes) will allow for full depletion without much cycle life degradation but usually there’s a 30% capacity hit. But the ruggedness of those types of batteries are why they often are used in aerospace applications
Get to the damn point!!
Those UA-camrs its a Joke!1!!
They say Blala blala His Life Blalal his Pusssy Balala His 50 Year Shiat Wife blala 5 Second Answer Blalaal.
Richie can "fix it" for a lot less !
Love me some Richie...
Love me some Richie...
This stupid electric hype and don't want to see the reality is making me vomit. Positives? Every 8 yrs top you have to invest 20k to get new battery... is this the worst investment ever? Internal combustion cars last 20 yrs.. buy good one, 30.. Can be upgraded to green gas, H2, Ethanol ...
I am pro new modes of transportation, e-cars are just fail, and everyone that buys them will just say Oh how great they are!! To mentally justify their purchase and fear of the times coming when mandatory battery replacement is needed (when you can't drive to Cosco and back with the puny capacity drop)
Well considering the 60 is a 75 with software limited capacity even at 100% you were not really 100% so I don't think that was a factor
Get to the point.
you can ruin an ICE by driving "wrong" too which wills shorten the life significantly more than batteries.
You don't ruin ice cars by driving them typically. I do like Teslas. I would have one if they weren't so full of overpriced and overengineered components. I dont need $3000 door handles or goofy doors that you cant just pull open. Electric cars nees a Henry ford with a model T philosophy to make them mainstream. Until they are Simple, efficient and modular I'm going to let the early adopters take the hits to their wallets.
The Noble American WTF you talking about. Most modern ICE engines have a short break-in and other than that, how can you drive one wrong? Doing neutral drops? All cars require some type of maintenance and even Tesla suggest a once a year go over.
Most Modern ICE cars will go 150- 200k miles easily with no repairs.
Solid video. I have a M3. I only charge to 80% and I try to never let it get below 40%. I don’t do tons of driving. I haven’t used a supercharger yet and I may never need to use one.
Thanks Michael!
You were definitely abusing that battery. Never a good idea to abuse your tools; they'll let you down, as you've seen. I would say you need at least a 75 KW battery for what you use the vehicle for and a 100 wouldn't hurt. Obviously a 60 is just not sufficient _for your purposes._
Kelly Rayburn Yeah, how dare he expect the battery to live up to the hype that Tesla’s advertised. Who would’ve ever thought that in order to keep the battery working reliably, you’re only allowed to use half the battery’s capacity.
Embellishing a bit, eh? It's between 30% and 80%. Not 50%. 32 or even 35% is fine.
Jeffery Bohemier, anti tesla circlejerk much? Leaning out a combustion engine by running low on fuel can superheat and damage a typical fuel injected Internal combustion engine. Cyclic loading and durability are problems that engineers are working on at all times. Essentially, understanding your use case is what you need to know. You're not going to go out and buy a honda civic v6 and put 200k miles on it with no service.
In this case, using 50-70% of the battery for day to day operations, where at most you drive about 150 miles in a given day, is not an unreasonable daily ask.
How's about instead of sniveling about the flaws of 2013 or 2014 era 60kw battery pack, try working the problem. There's big money if you solve the dendrite issue.
Besides, running it 20% - 80% in a model 3 with the most modern battery will get you 190+ miles before you need to stop and charge for ten minutes, with negligible long term degradation. And most people are going to be in their driveway topping off well before that.
Just setting that 80% cap in the software will eliminate almost all battery issues.
Charging a 60 to 100 percent is not abuse,Mitsubishi 80 percent of the 75 that's in there
80% - 30% = 50%. So, you effectively have only half the rated battery capacity. 🤔 And, you shouldn’t use super chargers, so charging will be slow. 🐢 Terrific!
Weird you didn't mention driving through a flooded street 😂
LOL. I don't think that had an impact on the battery.
@@AllThingsEV check out Rich Repairs, where he's rebuilding a flood damaged Tesla
@@PaulMansfield Actually, Rick Rebuilds opened a Tesla battery pack that had been submerged in water for several days.
It literally was bone dry and had zero damage. The pack is completely sealed. Driving through a flooded street has zero effect on the battery.
Rich rebuilds flooded tesla examinations disproves this theory that water ruins the battery. Its sealed very well, basically waterproof (unlike the Fisker karmas that started catching fire in a rainstorm haha)
Lol. We are all biased in some way.
Thank you Sean. Another bit of battery longevity advice for owners is to always keep their EV plugged in, EVEN if at full charge already. The trickle charge prevents background battery attrition from the car just sitting there. Suggest all owners do this as habit. I do this with my 2015 Model S as well with my 2015 Iphone 6+ and I've had no issues with either.
Replacing an EV battery makes as little sense as replacing a gas car’s engine. My brandnew car was only $11000. Back when I leased an EV my SoCal electricity was just as expensive as gasoline (so no savings there). No matter how I crunch the numbers I cannot justify spending $40 grand for a Tesla
.
.
electrictroy2010 depends on the person.
I drive exactly 102 miles per day m-f. I spent 270$ a month on gas for my Lexus (I know, not a hybrid, but I want a nice feeling car to drive). Installed overnight charging rate for the Tesla at 4.3c per kWh. I charge overnight at 32a to 80% and at normal driving I use 250watt hours per mile. That comes about to 1.09$ a day (25.5 kWh) so a little over 20$ a month. My model S makes for a easy commute and was well worth the cost. I never supercharge, only go to 80% and never below 20%. Battery will last me a very long time.
This is TOTALLY worth getting rid of my gas or diesel vehicles.....LMFAO!! Your not saving the planet BTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your wrong the best way to ruin the batter is to 1: beat the battery with a blunt object 2: set it on fire 3: drive into the ocean. Hope this helps 🙂
Tesla is more like Apple. Regular users don’t care or want to know how or why it works,. They just need to to work. I’m a fairly nerdy guy but when it comes to my car, i just want to get in and go. I know to not charge over 90% for daily use and not to let it die all the way. That’s about as far as I need to know about it.
I'am a fan of the big battery, I don't charge my Model 3 battery to 100%. I still have about 269 miles of range doing it that way.
Awesome range!
Like you said, 100% charge is only needed for road trips. I feel that nothing has been compromised in range with the bigger battery. If people can afford it, that is the way to go.
I agree. Plenty of range for most people even at 50% change.
By the way, get the 75 Kwh battery and keep supercharging as need it. When you buy a Model S, X or 3 Performance, you are prepaying energy cost at front. The energy transportation cost is implemented in the price of the car. This is another Elon Musk quote.
I'm confused. I had a Tesla tech come to my house to install the garage door opener device in my model Y and he told me that to get the best longevity from the battery, I should regularly charge to 90% and then let the battery drop to 20% before charging again. That's what I've been doing for the last 9 months of ownership. Am I killing my battery?
Painfully drawn out. This could be about 1/3 of the length.
Sorry it did not deliver for you.
Does this still apply to LFP batteries in the new Model 3s? I just bought one and they recommend charging up to 100% weekly. Should I still keep it above 20%? Or can it go lower too?
Newer Tesla’s have better battery tech as well.
High or low voltage that can cause a "cell" to actually flip polarity. And yes, batteries hate fast discharge and fast charging.
MY LARGE SUV IS 100% SOLAR POWERED
It works like this: The sun (solar power) causes certain plants to grow, these plants decay naturally and turn into an “All Natural” Energy source that can be easily converted into different forms. One form, called “gasoline” is easily transported and stored until the solar energy is needed. I can drive straight through from Maine to California and recharge my solar powered SUV in less than 4 minutes by conveniently located charging stations. The solar power, (in liquid form) is pumped into my vehicle in a couple of minutes, and I'm back on the road again. If you doubt me, ask any geologist. If there was no sun, there would be no fossil fuels.
You should try a solar powered vehicle, they’re great!
Sorry I can’t agree with the assumptions you are making Tesla will almost certainly not let the batteries in your car charge to 100% the display might say 100% but Tesla will have picked a safe maximum voltage for each cell pack and the charge process will stop at that voltage then balance the cells out. If the cars display had a volt meter and not a % display then we could have a sensible discussion about it. The same is true of a low voltage condition the battery management system will have a safe low voltage cutoff point and stop the car when that point is reached. So it might say 5 miles range or 5% left but if the voltage is below the set threshold it will just switch off which is very important. The temperature question is an arbitrary one as the car will have been tested over a very wide range of operating temps and will have again have max and min thresholds
You were just unfortunate to have a faulty set of cells in the 6800 (or whatever is in your pack) so it can’t maintain the required voltage level and can’t balance the cells out. It can take awhile to balance properly a complex set of parallel and series batteries so leaving the car plugged in would probably be best. Avoiding Supercharging may also help only if the supercharge process doesn’t allow sufficient time to balance the cells properly even if you only took it to 80% of charge.
Tesla battery engineers recommend not charging above 90% on a daily basis. But there's definitely a built in buffer too.
This is totally correct for any battery pack of this type. The point of multiple cells and banks is to provide parallel power that is balanced between the internal packs as they are used and during the charge process ( known as balancing ) so the discharge and charge rates are always equal. the management controller data is what Tesla is looking at and they can see which pack is the culprit. When they swap out the battery pack, they rebuild them. Just to add to this one more piece of info. Li-ion batteries at the 80% mark take longer to reach 100% because this is the top off charge of the battery. The charge from 30 to 80% is faster and generates more heat due to this and this is why the last 20% is slower, to help cool down the battery as it finishes a full charge cycle.
So, you are supposed to keep between 30 to 80% and not supercharge? that's ridiculous. Now you have only 30KWh batery instead of 60Kwh!! Batteries will fail no matter what you do. Batterries will fail just sitting there doing nothing over time. Face it, you will have to replace main battery at some time, be it 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 years into your Tesla car's life ---- if you can afford to pay $16K - $40K out of your pocket for a decade old car (batery price decrease is flattening out AND dollar is being devalued rapidly and you will not get fantasy $5K brand new battery pack replacement from Tesla). Finally you have to think about whether Mr. "Kind heart" Musk want you to cheaply replace your Tesla battery and keep driving your decade old Tesla or buy a new Tesla! LOL
I gave you a thumbs down because I constantly charge my battery to 100%, in fact I pretty much only use the supercharger, also I run my pack down low as well and at 300k I've lost maybe 12-15km of range. I feel also like you are speculating about why your battery needed to be replaced, and basing your information on hearsay and not actual fact.
Well not all batteries will come out equal, there are over 7000 cells in those packs and they all represent a possible failure, and they can't all be built exactly the same.
So some cars will get extremely lucky and last, while others had to go in after a couple thousand miles, and most will last for around the warranty period.
Science says running the pack the way Tesla suggests will allow better overall experience-the engineers tell you to use properly it was not hearsay
Don't understand the thumbs down. This video had lots of great tips.
@@MsSomeonenew No, there are not over 7000 cells in those battery packs. The 60kWh battery pack has 5375 cells, not over 7000. Only the 85kWh battery pack or larger has over 7000 cells.
And a single failure or two or fifty doesn't kill the pack. Each individual cell is fused, and in case of a failure, will remove itself from the rest of the pack.
They will not last around the warranty period. They will last far longer than that, according to current data from packs around the world...
www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capacity-840km-1-million-km/
@John Grzeskowiak It is adjustable. Leaving it at 90% means the pack will have no issues for a couple of decades. There is no need to micromanage it.
If ever there was a car that you are better off leasing, it is a Tesla. So far, my only regret was buying and not leasing. In 3 years, this new 2020 S Performance with 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and 340 miles of range on a full charge will be obsolete, much like every 3-4 year old Tesla is now. A 5+ year old Tesla is nearly worthless. The cost of a used Tesla out of warranty, an already antiquated battery pack, antiquated electric motors, and computer hardware compared to the new one doesn't justify the cost of buying used. You are better off letting Tesla trying to resell an antiquated 3-4 year old car with 30,000 miles. Tesla will at least add another full year of warranty on their used resells. In the older (even just 3 years old) S cars, the most you were looking at for range was around 250 miles. If you keep that battery between 30% and 80% without super-charging as you suggest, you are talking about a ~100 miles in range. A 220 outlet charging at 20 miles an hour---you are talking 5.5 hours of charge for every ~90 minutes of driving. That is not very good and not at all very practical. Don't shame people for trying to get a new battery for their cars every 8 years. You are doing Elon Musk a huge favor--one that he would not do for you. The battery is going to fail eventually no matter watt.
It's my understanding that it's the time spent at 100% charge that causes the most battery capacity degradation, not the number of times that you charge it to 100%.
So, if you charge it to 100% right before you leave, it's better than if you charge it to 100%, then leave it fully charged all night before you leave. Especially if you do that every night.
Maybe it would be good if there was a charge timer. It can charge to 80% as quickly as possible, then charge the remaining 20% in the morning so the car is ready right when you leave the house. Then you'll drain it back to 80% fairly soon, thus reducing the time that the battery spends in the fully charged state.
@@terjeoseberg990 the speed of charging naturally slows as you approach 100%. 90% is much healthier and frankly if that last 10% is gonna make you miss your distance goals/next charger you're probably not planning the trip very well. Also when super charging you need to have over 10% anyways to get a full speed charge. Super chargers are fastest from about 10% to 55% or so. Below 10% can be super slow.
That's pretty much all already built in. You set the car to always cap at the 80%, and then when you get up the morning you're planning to leave, you raise it to 100% on the app and let it charge further while you're preparing. 80% - 100% takes about the same time to charge as 20% - 80%
And that's why Tesla batteries last longer than any other batteries.
If only Cell phone and Laptop manufacturers would include the same features for charging their batteries.
@@terjeoseberg990 agreed. I try to take my mobile off the charger when I notice it getting above 80% for that reason.
This comes back to the famous "range" argument. Petrol positive folks probably won't accept any range, but you often hear them talk about 400 miles.
I'm going to start to dodge the tomatoes and say that ... they are right. An EV needs 400-600 miles of range. And yes, I did say "needs".
The reason it needs this range actually has nothing to do with how far it's driven but everything to do with both longevity and peace of mind.
When you factor in that you get the best battery life from 30-60% charge variation, the closer we can get to that in everyday use the more we hit that "ideal" point.
Sure, certain things may alter this in the future. Solid state batteries will likely alter all of this, but for the current technology, a battery with a 500 mile range would allow 100% operation in that safe range. A 400 mile battery would lend 250 miles of range and allow 30-80% charging. Still very reasonable.
So remember that swing when getting into those arguments about how much range an EV actually "needs".
I'll stick with my Prius C and when it makes sense I'll install a larger secondary battery.
Those batteries also die too!
@@Mattstafford2009 but it's way cheaper than Tesla and Tesla battery :D. Prius C is a sweet little car for people who can't afford a Tesla.
There is no way on this earth these battery packs are going to be "sub $5k" anytime ever.
That wouldn't even cover the cost of buying the cells.
Currently, 4,416 (2170) cells are placed inside a Tesla Model 3. (quoted from Tesla oracle 2021 website).
All your videos are awesome and so informative! I recently bought a Tesla model S it’s a 2012 signature series with a 85 KW battery(used of course) had 62,000 miles. I was able to find out information via Tesla once I bought it and found the owners took good care of it and it was current on all maintenance. And warranty work that was needed. But I’m always searching for ways to keep my battery running for a long time! And everyone is saying only charge to 80% and get to no less than 20%. Which I never have. Thankfully. But it is something that sticks in my mind.. what if my battery dies after my 8 year unlimited mile warranty goes out.. but hopefully by listening to others and sticking to these rules of maintenance.. will work! I did calculations and found brand new was 265 miles of range I now get roughly 256 miles of range at full charge.. not to bad.. let me know if you have any other tips!! Thanks again!
Forgot to mention I drive mostly highway.. I charge to about 190 miles and by the time I get home (depending on weather temp) I live in Kansas.. I normally get home with above 100 miles.. should I lower the miles to charge up to?
Sounds like you’re doing the right things. Hopefully if the battery does goes bad outside of warranty they will be inexpensive. Love the signature series! What color?
Sean Mitchell it’s black. My boyfriend wasn’t to keen on the red.. which they had both at the time. But we love it! It’s the best thing we have ever bought! I get lots of questions about it daily but I love talking about it! 😊
Curious. How did you 60 kw do in the winter in Denver? They say the dual motor does better with winter.. I was researching how to drive your Tesla in the winter months and found lots of helpful tips!
Sounds like you have a fine buffer.
Not true my Tesla Model S from 2013 has 320.000 km driven and mostly charged at SuC still 90% left in the battery. Mostly driven down to less than under 10% to get the fastest charging rate. Never been in for a service at SC.
Thanks for your story. Silly prediction though, that battery packs will go down from 15K to 5K in 5 years. Not even Elon Musk thinks that. Only spectacular break throughs can make that happen. EVs, my prediction now, will stay high priced for 10 years, because of the battery.
Wrong
Except historical data shows that. Lithium Ion batteries dropped in price by 80% in six years, from 2011 to 2017.
They are forecast to keep dropping, and are forecast to cost $60 per kWh in 2023. That is 5 years from now, that means a 60kWh battery pack will be $3600.
cleantechnica.com/2018/06/09/100-kwh-tesla-battery-cells-this-year-100-kwh-tesla-battery-packs-in-2020/
@@redbaron6805 OK we will wait and see. I eat my hat, or you will?
@@theoschijf8155 Well, considering that Lithium Ion battery prices dropped by 80% from 2011 to 2017, I suggest you load up on Ketchup and condiments for your hat......:)
@@theoschijf8155 You can check out the actual history here:
cleantechnica.com/2017/12/11/batteries-keep-getting-cheaper/
Annoying guy.... All yapping but no clapping from meeeeeee.... Just tell viewers the 3 things.....
Contact rich rebuilds he can maybe repair your battery instead of replacing it
Would be a fun collaboration.
But he can't know how good or bad those batteries are, he pulls them from wrecks or floods so it's a guessing game.
It certainly is an option, but if you need that car every day for work it isn't a great option.
The battery is not the actual issue as it is the use. He drives too many miles per day on this small battery. He needs to lease a new X 100 for maximum business deductions. Owning a car in real estate is not very smart!
Why? In this case Tesla will provide a new larger battery for free under warranty.
if you get too low - just drive to an Hotel - they often let you use their charger's for free.. just use the EVHotels.org app to find the nearest hotel that has chargers..
I think your estimate of future battery costs of $5000 is way too low. The battery weighs 1200lbs (540kg) and has over 7000 cells in it together with a very significant amount of power semiconductors associated with charging, balancing and monitoring the cells. To get this down to about 70 cents per cell (or looked at another way ~$4/lb) to the end-user seems a huge stretch.
The batteries are primarily comprised of nickel oxides, graphite, and to a lesser extent, alumium, and hydrocarbon-based electrolytes - most of which are well under $4/lb (nickel oxides are about that price).
It'll take time, but they can get down that cheap eventually.
@Karen Pease Well, bear in mind we are talking here about a spare part for a car and the price the end-user will be paying not the bulk price for an OEM.
If you think that price is possible can you give some examples of items currently manufactured containing well in excess of 7000 components and weighing over 500kg that are currently available to the consumer for a one-off price of $5000?
A shed? That took like five seconds to come up with an example.
@ Karen Really? - give us a breakdown of the 7000+ components you think are in this shed of yours and let's see how they stack up in, say, machining time and raw materials to a Tesla battery.
Nails, for starters? You're counting tiny components in a battery pack; better count tiny components in a shed too.
Want to talk tons of components? A modern CPU has over *ten billion transistors* - not all parts combined, just transistors. Part count is relevant only to the degree that you can mass manufacture said parts. And those cell lines at Giga seriously churn through those cells.
It's 5 years later battery replacements still seem to cost $20k with labor.
NEW REQUIREMENT: If you give me a thumbs down, you need to comment on why.
Funny, Most of the time, I comment and forget to hit one finger button.
gave a thumbs down for starting the video by lying . tesla batteries aren't designed in any way to last long. every tesla youtuber seems to have had a battery pack or a motor or both changed at least once during the first 12 months of ownership
most of these advices aren't really applicable. using the battery only between 30 and 80% means you're down to half the range all the time except when you do longer trips. that bring it down to the level of the Nissan leaf and other EVs.
not supercharging often when you're supposed to just use 50% actual capacity, not that feasible. supercharging is like the main feature of tesla, that differentiate it from other EVs, and speaks volumes about a company that both designs and makes in-house both the batteries and superchargers, but you're supposed to avoid the superchargers as much as possible. not a good job on their part.
my phone battery is also li-ion and I charged it to 100% everyday and it lasted me more than 2 years without any issues, no tesla battery pack has ever lasted 2 years it seems.
as for temperatures, it almost sounds like don't drive your tesla during the coldest days in winter or the warmest days in summer. not that awesome from a car.
imo no way in hell the cost of the battery replacement will reach 5000$ in 5 years. that's about how much it costs now for the other EVs which have a lot smaller batteries.
no model S has gone out of the 8 year warranty yet. we'll see then what their second hand value will be.
at least Renault allows you to "rent" the battery pack. you buy the car but rent the battery pack. not as a crap idea as it sounds imo.
"tesla batteries aren't designed in any way to last long"
And that's why I gave you a thumbs down.
When you repeatedly charged the battery to 100%, did you charge the night before use for the next day, or did you charge the morning for the rest of the days use?
You shouldn't consider every problem you've had with your Tesla an anomaly. I would bet that the battery has died on MANY other Teslas (since they are not engineered to specifically last forever), especially from your era of Model S cars. Tesla has come a long way in the last 6 years in improving quality control in manufacturing.
Think about it, a Tesla owner sells his car to the next person after owning it for 6-7 years..
Is the past owner obligated to inform the new owner of the upcoming $15,000 to $20,000 in near future needed maintenance?
If so, would that not diminish the resale value by that much? What would the price be now?
So the premium range of an electric car is 50 percent lower than they advertise because you need to charge to no more than 80 % and don’t run it below 30 %. Otherwise you will lower the life of the battery and it will cost a small fortune. Awesome.
Nope. Not the case. You can charge a Lithium battery to full and discharge it to a very low point, just don't do it constantly. Road trips it will be fine to do so. Daily driving, just pay a little attention. Or the alternative is paying $35-50 every time you fill up with gasoline so you can run it empty and fill it completely full without issue. And you also get to change the timing belt, do oil changes, transmission flushes, fuel and water pump replacements, smog checks, etc. Pick your poison.
No, that is complete fiction. There is very little degradation of the battery unless you frequently go well above 90% or well below 10% on a regular basis, and leave it there for extended periods of time.
blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b/
Guess it is like charging your phone. When do you come to a point where you fully discharge your phone so it is more a learning here too. Of course don’t charge it to 100% and that is because you want the regenerative breaking to charge the battery back and if it is 100%, the energy has nowhere to go. So not to charge 100% a practice
"Never charge to 100%" E-Cars are already impractical enough due to the lack of enough superchargers(like going to the gas station) and also always having the need to plan the trips in sync to the availability to the chargers and then also having to look out for the fact that I should never charge the battery to max (WHICH MAKES NO SENSE BECAUSE I WANT TO DRIVE ALWAYS MAX DISTANCE). Sorry but if the technology is advanced enough to use it to the fullest, then I would never buy an E-car.
I’m definitely giving you a thumbs down. It’s not about you or the quality of your video, but on your convoluted way of trying to justify buying an electric vehicle over a gas powered vehicle. And believe me when I say that I like electric vehicles. I really do. But it’s borderline false advertising when Tesla insist that you can get a certain range from a certain model when in reality using the full range as advertised would cause you to ruin the car’s battery. You said the sweet spot’s between 30 and 80%. Well, that leaves a whopping 50% of the battery’s capacity OUTSIDE that sweet spot, and from listening to your video, I’ve got to take away the fact that using that 50% will diminish the life of the battery.
The cost of that battery is outrageous. For $15,000 to $20,000, I can replace both the engine and transmission in a gas powered car...and still have plenty left over. But if you’ve taken proper care of your gasoline powered vehicle, then there’s no reason why it won’t run for at least 250,000 miles or more...with no significant high dollar issues. Tesla’s kept the repair cost of these cars under wraps as long as they could. But Model S’s are now coming out from under that 8 year warranty and the true cost of repairs is starting to leak out. Those fancy door handles, which one owner has reported to replace 4 times, are about $1000.00 a pop. Model S brakes also have a corrosion issue, likely caused because they’re not used nearly as often, as the car uses regenerative braking. The cost of that repair...expect to pay around $5000. That’s if you’re lucky. One owner reported a much higher price. And then there’s the electric motors themselves. Again, an owner reported to have had his replaced under warranty...twice. Gotta wonder how much THAT cost. It’s the heart of the car. People who have tried to purchase used Tesla’s have been told (by Tesla’s dealerships) when asked about the prior repairs made on the car they’re interested in buying...”Its been inspected and is in full working order.” THAT DOESN’T ANSWER THE QUESTION. And I won’t buy a used car WITHOUT KNOWING IT’S REPAIR HISTORY. Nor would I consider buying a car that only allows me to use half it’s fuel, electric or otherwise.
Lastly, the MAIN REASON I won’t buy a Tesla is their really bland styling. For the cost of a nice Model S, I can also buy a really, REALLY NICE BMW 7 Series. And if I was taking clients around to see new homes, THAT’S THE CAR I’d rather take them in. Something supremely comfortable, NOT BLAND, with a build quality that far exceeds that of Tesla’s. And I’d be able to leave my range worries behind. Because for the cost of the battery pack in your Tesla, I could put fuel in the BMW for more than 150,000 miles...and still have money left over.
Until battery technology improves even further, I’m staying away from electric vehicles. Personally, I don’t think our energy issues will be resolved with electric cars, at least, not until that electric juice is created onboard using hydrogen power cells.
Jeffrey Bohémier...... Couldn't agree more! Battery tech is in it's infancy, and will change dramatically once auto makers start using supercaps.
lol and after way less then 200,000 miles your wonderful BMW will fall apart and stop working too
The new tesla is falling apart leaving the factory. One recently had the bumper fall off due to heavy rain.
guce.oath.com/collectConsent?sessionId=3_cc-session_25591885-1b98-4c5a-8ff5-3d86b277fe58&lang=&inline=false&jsVersion=null&experiment=null
Welcome to luxury ownership. These cars are not for the middle class. Imo
@@untilthemoon137 well said. You can buy $100,000 mercs and BMW used for $35,000 with around 50k to 90k miles.....But can you afford to repair and maintain it....
Coast battery 15 to 20 k that car ready for junk yard most of. Car has I will never buy and ev vehicle.your ok paying 15 to 20 k for battery sorry im a real auto tech I will never pay 20 k for battery on car worth nothing with 140 k .otherworldly your saying car only good for couplefor few years no thank you ice vehicle all the way keep dually diesel pick up witch cost 83 k I have for 15 20 years
Hello, sir. A Tesla service center had my 60kwh Model S for 3 months and never charged it. The 12 volt battery died, the car was totally discharged for months and the battery pack is permanently damaged and needs replacement. They claim that leaving it uncharged for 3 would not hurt the battery pack. I call BS. What are your thoughts! Thanks!
Scientific studies show that supercharging vs slow charging has a minimal effect on degradation… talking less than 5%
Anyways, I buy a car so that it is a convenience for me… not so that I can be inconvenienced by it. I say just drive and charge it however you want especially if you’re into tech, because in 8 years there are going to be way better electric cars you’ll trade into anyways,
Cybertruck FTW! To hell with every other Tesla now. CT is the game changer. Mid range model is now 300plue probably over at or over 400 at release..... I'm soooooo f**King stoked! The only other vehicle the has a chance now is the Rivian R1S. It blows the doors off the Model X & Y. This literally is the only chink int he armor of Tesla so i'm not worried.
Seriously???? You're in Real Estate and you would consider trading a Model S for a Model 3? Personally, I'd take the Model S interior over a Model 3 any day. While your clients SHOULDN'T be judging you by your car, the Model S is still the BEST looking Tesla on the road. The Model 3? Not so much.
I don't think charging to 100% will kill the battery unless you leave it at 100% for a long time.
If you schedule your charge to get to 100% just as your about to leave then it will likely have only been over 80% for a few hours.
The problem lies in the panasonic Lion cells they are using which in normal use are fantastic cells but they don't like being charged fast at all. (look at the datasheet for panasonic 18650 cells)
If you rapid charge a 60kwh pack at 150kw your going so far out of the recommended spec for the cells they have to artificially heat the pack for it to accept the charge in the first place. which i might add makes it possible for the battery to take the charge but will make the pack degrade much worse.
I am not certain if you can set the charge speed in a tesla but my recommendation is to set it to a charge rate of 1c max which means 60kw if you have a 60kwh battery.
This is what the advantage of a123 battery's were back in the day they could be rapid charged to full in ten minutes hundreds of times with minimal degradation but this came at a cost of much worse energy density.
The only problem i have with tesla battery right now is the serviceability of there battery packs is virtually non existent.
With a leaf you can just drop the battery tray out and take apart the battery and find and replace the damaged cells you cant do this with a tesla because of the way the pack is built.
California driving average 20,000 miles a year. that makes a $2500 fuel cost yearly. ownership of 8 years. $20000 of fuel expenses in 8 years.
buy a Camry for $30000+20000 fuel=$50000 VS Buy a model 3 for $50000-20000=$30000.
8 years ownership is key.
Thanks Sean. Great advice. It was might seem obvious but don't be surprised if some people are one of what Uncle Sean does.
There ARE a lot of reasons to buy an electric car AND there are a lot of reasons NOT to buy an electric car. One guy parked his Tesla for a week at the airport and came back to a car whose battery was dead due to daily charge loss. Also, the claimed range that's advertised is false, since car makers recommend not charging batteries to more than 80 percent. Also, car insurance quotes for the electric cars were 21% higher, on average, than quotes for the gas cars. Also, the rise of electric cars could leave us with a big battery waste problem. This electric vehicle boom could leave 11m tonnes of spent lithium-ion batteries in need of recycling between now and 2030, according to Ajay Kochhar, CEO of Canadian battery recycling startup Li-Cycle. In addition, the high torque inherent in electric cars is much harder on tires and could result in having to replace them much sooner. Then, there's the charging wait time. Charging stations are not always convenient depending on the part of the country you are driving in.
So the car really only has 1/2 the the advertised range, unless you want to ruin the battery and spend 15K or more for a new battery. You Tesla owners must love spending money. You could have bought a Lexus and had something that would last well past 200, 000 miles with onlly minor repairs. Hope you like spending 1K for new door handles too.
I’m not math wiz but I do know that keeping the battery between 30% and 80% means that I would only be using 50% of the battery and getting only half the advertised range. That’s a non-starter. I can do the 80% charge but I regularly go below 30%.
My Dad just bought a Model Y. I have a Model 3. He asked "How do I set the maximum charge?" I told him how.
His next question: "How to I set the minimum?" I laughed and said: "Stop driving."
So, you can only use 60% of a very heavy battery? Serious? Total joke. Not valid. A 60 kwh battery is 178 miles x .6=106 miles. That means a 100 kwh battery gives 178 mils. There is no option for 300 miles and only 60%.
simple, how you take care of your phone battery is how you should take care of your car battery. Don't charge it to full and drain it often, do it once a month. Don't charge and discharge it fast, in short don't fast charge or drive rapidly. Don't use it charge or discharge it in very hot or cold conditions.
They fed us the same baloney when cell phones first came out. It was always the users fault when the batteries failed. They had us convinced it was improper charging.
I am aware of 3 Tesla's with over 400k miles. They are all on their THIRD battery. The truth is the life of a battery pack is about 200,000 miles. That's the secret that is going to kill the semi trucks. The battery replacement cost every 2 years is going to kill that market. It's either time or charging cycles. The batteries just don't last. What evidence do you have the battery is 15 to $20k? post the proof. Also, what evidence do you have that cost will fall to $5k? that's highly unlikely. This technology has been in wide use for 20 years. the raw material costs are GOING UP due to high demand. The $20k price is artificially low, they are not putting a normal markup on that. I have read about I guy in Norway who was quoted $50,000. My lawn mower was $50 for new batteries when it was new. 4 years later the model was obsolete so they jacked the price to $100 right as our batteries where starting to fail. You are a fool if you think you are getting a $5,000 battery pack for your Tesla out of warranty. The comparatively tiny batteries for older hybrids are $6,000 in Canada. One trick some brands are using is to quote the battery but charge $2000 each for "nodes" whatever they are.
in short EV just isn't going to be cost effective unless battery technology vastly improves. The 1st cost effective EV Car probably wont be coming from Tesla.