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I like to contemplate the spectacle of Skynet getting a couple dozen T800's on board a cube and the ensuing cyberslaughter once they start breaking drones in half. Borg are the LEAST intimidating cyborgs I've ever seen
I always thought that one of the biggest issues of the Borg, which was kind of an aesthetic/real-world limitation problem, is that they never appear to have physically evolved or improved the whole time you see them. They clump around like space zombies and you can comfortably jog to safety if one is chasing you.
Borg Mind changes all time 20 yers and is not the same colllective soo meyby they just start be to strong and colective like optymalizatin soo cut prosess aho dont be needed
To be fair, the fact that they're more weak to physical projectiles makes sense. They adapt their shields to the energy patterns of the phaser shots or whatever, but physical blows are a lot less predictable than a stable beam of particles. What *doesn't* make sense is why the federation uses energy weapons against them at all.
I agree to an extent, but maybe compare it a little to werewolves. You may be well aware that silver hurts them, and absolutely have the capacity to carry around a silver sword, but if you basically never run into a werewolf you might just not bother carrying it around with you. And then add to that the potential of lots and lots of different threats, most of which don't need silver or may even be way harder to deal with than silver. It really depends on how often you deal with them; but yeah, if you know you're about to fight them, then bring a gun.
Energy dampening fields happen often enough that chemically propelled weapons should be a standard secondary weapon of at least Security officers, the rest can use phasers as defensive weapons aboard friendly ships and stations.
This is among the many things that made the reimagined Battlestar Galactica a much better show. Projectile weapons actually are superior in space and cause much more damage. Forget the Borg, why any of the species in star trek are firing laser beams at each other makes little sense. Look at the last new Star Trek movie..the enemy attacked with a zillion of small projectile ships and the Enterprise had zero chance and was destroyed in a second.
they start ( federation ) think abaut it but after borgs problem ( voyager say hello ) federation stop work on it. and we need remeber federation have a big war vs dominium who stop them think abaut borg for some time
@@bobross1829 Problem is ammo Replicators work cost many energy, most time energy weapon work better and ok borg dont like bulets but romulans federation ect shilds can take a meteor Literaly best way to crash them is to fly this 30-50 light speed one ship into other. Alos Federation like weapon who perfect Target things like Phasers are the best for it. Many civilisation use kinetic weapons but more like big Gauss or rockeds if have self controll ai is even better xd or antymatter or this and this.
To be fair, the Federation would have wiped the borg a LONG time ago if they weren’t so afraid of militarization. Jeez, even some basic body armor would help
Body Amor is Useless in Star Treck, alone the little Hand Phaser can VAPORIZE 10x10 Sqaure Meter Cube of Metal on Max Power Shields are the way to go, Borg Shields seems useless cause they need the exact lenth to work, but if, they cant be breched by the length Most other spezies use it the exact other way mostly, knowing the exact wavelength of the enemy made thier shields useless but thier shields can be breached by sheer firepower and the Borg never used even a fraction against the federation, over 99.9% of borg vessels are used elsewhere the Borg have Millions of Cubes, each considered a highly threat i think in the whole startreck franchise the federation as such never faced even 10 of them, dont even speak at the same time here even the Borg Queens we know are nothing special and the non agression way of exploring of the federation is pretty helpful they have reached thier goals BECAUSE they get rid of warmongers and social slavery so each Human can do thier passions and work on them to thier fullest potential we have today discussions about 32hour week works and citizen money because the idea benefits really society and is not just dumb left comunism speach^^
@@Sinahji what’s up with that last part about politics? I never said anything about communism or lefties, are you projecting something on me here or?...(edit was a spelling error)
@@stuglife5514 just a common answer of many because a cashless society is leftis comunism xD so i decided to take this point and it wasnt wrong at all, just an example to the real world o.O
@@MonkeyJedi99 Kinetic Weapons are just useless comparable In Star Treck nearly each faction Travel Faster than Light without enter a safe Corridor, so even Projektil sized Objects hitting Vessels faster than Light do nothing in Star Treck They needed against a Borg Sphere (Smaller and Lighter than Cubes) without any Shields 2 Quantum Torpedos to Destroy it Quantum Torpedos would be in 40k an Exterminatus Weapon, Halo havent Weapons with this Firepower, in Star Wars hard to Say. but atleast 5% of the Firepower from the Deathstar So its sure to say that using Kinetic energy as Weapon is simply Outdatet in Star Treck Even Laser Tech wasnt Considered a treath, Picard enable Yellow Alert just for the Starfleet Protocol If you readed until now a little gift Star Fleet have in fact a Projektil Weapon^^ memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/TR-116_rifle
I feel the problem with the Borg is bad writing. The writers made an enemy so powerful, the Federation couldn’t defeat them without a deus ex machina, that would not exist in an actual civilization that advanced.
Agree. I think the stupid Aliens are the only ones that survived the story selection process and made it to the big screen. A smart alien that wins human civilization will only survive in ... movies made by aliens...
Completely no thinking in writting process at all most useless alien races ever made by short minded crap writers it's pathetic they can't think k past a crappy script idea, who says yeah good idea like wtaf!!!!!!!
In TNG they were OP, the only reason for their constant defeat being the fact that the federation has plot armour, but in VOY it was mostly bad writing.
Q introduced humans to The Borg: and they were meant to be this super ridiculous race of Over powered beings that existed for the purpose of making the enterprise seem small and inadequate for the task at hand. The writers have talked about how the borg were always going to be introduced but they self admittedly say they "rushed the process" and ended up creating "glaring errors as an entirety even if the way the borg presented worked within each episode (two episode story arc) or movie" Andre Bormanis the guy the star trek team at paramount hired to keep them from doing completely nonsensical things still lets the infamous "worst episode of star trek" happen on his watch (tom paris reaching warp 10)
Actually, that makes sense seeing as he would've trained to use phasers with no kickback. It's actually more amazing that he didn't lose control of the damn thing as soon as he pulled the trigger.
The Poleepkwa (prawns) were mostly born sick and dumb before they even got to Earth, Christopher was one of few that actually came from their homeworld that survived. The soldiers, engineers, and organizational leaders probably all died on the way to Earth, leaving only newborns and "civilians" to fend for themselves (they had, what I assume were, pets and stuff on the ship, so it was probably a civilian vessel). On Earth, many of the prawn were born on-planet, which would explain why they don't understand their own technology.
It could have been a sort of a penal ship with a purpose of getting rid of unwanted (defective) members of "prawn" society, that for some reason (culture, tradition) could not be simply eliminated on site. Limited weaponry aboard the ship might have been there for the guards to keep the exiles in check. If there was any intention of a planetary invasion there would be much more than some hand held weapons and exoskeletons. Drones and aircraft would certainly be used in large quantities and there's nothing like that in the movie.
Yep, iirc it was even mentioned in the movie that the passengers of the spaceship were just 'common folks' and not astrophysicists or spaceship engineers. From all 'failed aliens', the Prawn are imo the most plausible scenario of a ghetto of homeless aliens. On a side note, I loved the idea that the spaceship was the one sent by the people of Golgafrincham.
The Prawns are a special case. It was stated in the movie that all those aboard the mothership had suffered from some sort of plague. Given that the mysterious "black stuff" can transform a human into a prawn, it isn't that far fetched to imagine that they could create a bioweapon which would wipe the minds of everyone on board. It is also implied that their offspring inherit knowledge as evidenced by Christopher Johnson's kid as compared to all the other prawns on the planet. So, in short, the prawns who arrived on earth were the victims of some conflict with other factions within the prawn species.
Actually I think the Prawns aren't a species. The movie shows that a human exposed to the black goo turns into a Prawn... So my theory is that the Prawns are another species that somehow got mutated by its own technology.
yes, they are just biological drones somehow engeneered in some way by a total different species. at least it seems to be. however what speaks against is the aliens reaction to human experients on them. if tehy are just a bunch of disfunctional bio drones than empathy for each other isnt something we coudl expect. i think the idea is simply not fully tought trough and jsut had a good start but was never thought trough completly. a better example for something like that would be falling skies, with their neural implants to be controlled by the real ruling species
I think that a lot of people misunderstood the Prawns or never bothered to think about it. It was made clear from the start that they are a lot of like us and by that I mean stupid (just look at the comment section). It would made sence that most of them were just workers (moving things from point A to point B) or like low level engineers. Mix that with chronic addiction that humanity gave them and you can see how they got there. I believe that it's biologically impossible for an individual to know everything. I can throw the smartest person in the world into a middle of a jungle and that person will die because it can survive without it's tools. We don't know the details of Prawns arrival on earth but i could argue that there was probably some kind of pilot crew that could actually fly that spaceship ( I mean you need to learn how to drive I can only imagine how hard is to fly a spaceship, lol). What if there was an accident that killed this crew and some emergency landing protocol was engaged... anyway I don't think that Praws should be up there because A) we don't have enough information about them B) they didn't come to earth to obliterate us (which they obviously could have)
@@kukuricapica I have theory that this ship was damaged and they landed on earth by accident. Like u sad some sort of emergency protocol. What if this ship was drifting so long that it become generation ship. This aliens that we see is great great great great son of original crew. That after couple generation aliens known less and less about fixing ship, culture and behaving. Like big kids that they didn't go to shool just play. And there is low gene pool. Maybe they are not 100% ok. Maybe there are kinda mentally disabled. Their tech shows that they are advanced, verry advanced. That would explains all.
It seems like the “prawns” were like exiles from their society, similar to how the British used to use “transportation” to desolate colonies like Australia as punishment for criminals. If there was a revolt on a British prison ship that managed to overwhelm and kill all of the crew and guards, doesn’t it stand to reason that the rebels wouldn’t really know how to sail the ship and use its weapons, and likely would fumble around and drift until they ran aground on some foreign land, and possibly become a ghettoized underclass in whatever country they landed in, if that country had any sort of existing civilization that didn’t know about the British?
@James Alexander Dude, stop being so insecure, nobody hurt you, we are not here to question your intellectual ability so chill! Take it easy! You are safe, you don't have to protect yourself.
One of my favorite fan theories about the Borg and their apparent obsession with the Federation is that the Federation is one of the few societies which has been actively able to combat them. The Borg consider themselves perfection, yet are routinely defeated by plucky Human, Vulcan, or Klingon pilots. Thus the Borg have come to believe that the Federation itself has achieved perfection, and as such, the Borg have devoted an inordinate amount of resources into absorbing it into the collective.
I agree with TwoCentsforCharon the Borg have Millions of Cubes if not even Way more at Best the Borg are Curios how much more tech they may Develop which is worth to be Assimilatet (Like seen in Voyager, they had a short coperation)
"The Borg, our most lethal enemy, have begun an invasion of the Federation. And this time there may be no stopped them!" "How many ships?" "One". 🤦🏻♂️
To be fair, those weaknesses have to exist in fiction. Any civilization noticeably more advanced than us would vaporize us, period. Any extraterrestrial foe has to be idiotified to be made beatable. Every single tv show or movie featuring alien civilizations as enemy eventually has the humans win by doing something that makes the average guy think "how the f**k did they fell for that"
Angelo Mordasini I actually like the video game Xenonauts for this, but I would have to spoil the alien’s motivations for it. Ok. The aliens could just wipe out humanity without a thought, but the whole invasion is a test to see if we are worthy of being assimilated into their multi-galactic empire that has no name due to a lack of rivals, or if we should be destroyed completely. It’s stupid, yes. But it’s a semi-logical reason as the reason has had a level of thought put into it.
Iirc they don't use shields simply because they'd rather adapt to any weapon is fired at them, since they can do that relatively quickly. They start using them later on to counter the "remodulating" trick
Angelo Mordasini The whole adapting to incoming phaser fire thing is stupid when you put thought into it. Surely they have assimilated a phaser by now, so they would know all the frequencies that they are capable of, so they could just adapt to them all before attacking the federation again. Since the federation is completely dependant on phasers as their only weapons, they would be helpless to the borg. That is, if the borg were smart that is what would happen.
I wonder more why the damn federation spent so much effort on developing ways to fight the borg...but not once thought about taking advantage of the melee/kinetic projectile weakness? Is it to hard to build 12gauges ? Or mount a warp core powered railgun on a ship? They could build a replicater into the loading chamber and sling depleted uranium slugs the size of a volkswagen at warp 5 or whatever.... Dead borg everywhere
They don't really need to. They have a shield instead. And they might not have assimilated many Klingons. They can't overpower someone, they won't get their technology. Klingons are far too dangerous to pick fights with.
*Thumbs up* for the _Borg_ ; *Thumbs down* for the _Prawns_ The best analogy I can think of for *District 9* is: Take a cruise ship full of tourists and kill off the whole crew bar one; have a disease run through the ship; have it run a-ground on an uncharted island that contains a well-organised and well-resourced civilisation with a completely unfamiliar language and traditions and system of government - and _then_ have the majority of the tourists get addicted to a substance native to the island. _Also_ have criminals from a neighbouring community come in and exploit the tourists mercilessly - including taking control of any aid provided by the ruling government. Oh, and that crew-member? Yeah, he was an engineer.
all the prawns that had higher levels of intellect died after some sort of virus picked up on an alien planet they visited on there way to find resources for home then once the ship had detected that something bad had happened like how we rely on certain thing to save us in there case the ship had detected that fuel and life support would fail so it headed for the nearest planet in the Goldilocks zone but in this case it kinda screwed them over because it headed for earth.The queen of this hive wasn't as resilient and hardy as the workers so naturally the queen or whatever generals that were in charge died leaving these semi beings only half alive and only purpose to take orders and survive by whatever means but since they are a colony ship they had the next generation of prawns and presumably the ones who would have higher intellect, as well as have survivors who were of higher intelligence and lead them in the next generation, that's what we see in the movie with our main prawn he survived and that being ones would figure out a plan to get home and then send ships to rescue them,
It gets even worse, since in District 9 the entire ruling caste was killed off, and the remainder was made up of the worker caste that was never meant to make plans or take charge. An euocial species like the prawn only work if everyone instinctively knows their place and works accordingly without trying to branch outside their lot in life. So with the ones in charge gone, you have an entire shipful of loyal followers, button pushers and assembly line workers without any creative thinkers, born leaders and planners among them. They don't have the mental flexibility to become something they weren't born to be. Luckily in the absence of a ruling caste one (or maybe more, we only meet one) prawn begins to develop into a leader cast member (some eusocial species really have such a genetic failsafe mechanism that prevents an entire hive from dying out) but one person can only do so much, so Christopher Johnson concentrates on what he sees as the easiest way out of the mess: figuring out how to make the ship operational again and go get help.
tbh i've heard other theories too, like this was essentially a prison boat, this might not even be the first generation, and they literally just gave up on teaching 99% of the new population at some point, etc. it's not that their entire civilization's somehow this inept, how the fuck would they have spacefaring tech otherwise? these guys are clearly bottom of the barrel, but maybe they're the equivalent of some isolated tribe rounded up in a boat or something, rather than an accurate representation of the species as a whole. also, funny he mentions how the smart prawn doesn't rally everyone, then goes on to mention the one guy he convinced to help him can't even tell the difference between earth and their tech. presumably a lot of the others aren't too far off, and are probably more or less fine with how they're treated, given it's possibly still somewhat better conditions than stuck in the ship.
"Perfection" ~ Borg Queen at random. "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means" ~ Inigo Montoya who I declare canon to Star Trek universe because when corporations can shove whatever they want to Star Trek, why can't we do it?
They definitely don’t know the meaning of the word perfection. If the y did, we wouldn’t hear them say things like “you will be assimilated and added to our perfection”. Makes me cringe hearing it.
District 9 has a very reasonable explanation, the prawns were of a social class of servants, that is, they had no individual abilities, they only knew how to follow orders. The advanced civilization is not them, but those who used their labor, possibly slave.
I thought I remembered a comment somewhere that the ship was filled with escaped slaves. But, I have no idea whether that was in the film itself, some comment by someone in the production, or just someone on TV Tropes pushing their fan theory as fact.
@@sevenclovers7 The prawn are shown using tools even weaponry... but im sure you can use a can opener and pappy's old shotgun but try building a nuclear reactor or flying a fighter aircraf... most humans can't explain how a micowave works.
I mean, the point of the entire District 9 movie is that the Prawns suffer a tragedy (likely their own doing) destroying the bulk of their society, (leaders, military, etc) leaving a small life boat of civilians that really had no right surviving stranded helpless on a world full of pissy aliens not to happy about the situation being forced on them.
Add to that the fact that the majority of humans have no understanding how our own technology works. If you write the url of the website in the google search to find the website, you have no clue what you are doing. And yes, the majority of people does exactly this.
Throttle Kitty ...It was a THINLY veiled parable of Apartheid, and a pretty good one. Not my favorite Alien type film, but very accurate in the details as a parable.
The Prawns appear to be a hive mind species with some kind of malfunction at work that interrupted the connection that left the drone class adrift and unable to function as intended.
I could offer counter agreements to every single one of his points on the prawns hive mind and it's disfunctionality. One being that (with the ant analogy) if you were to kill off all but the soldier ants, give them a disease and take away their ability to procreate I think you'd have a group of *very* confused and disfunctional ants. That's pretty much what happened to the prawn society.
Complaining about the prawns is pretty much missing the entire point of District 9. If they were as hypercompetent as you seem to want them to be, the plot of the movie couldn't exist. People on Earth manage to end up in the kind of squalid, disorganized mess that the prawns are in; that's the entire point of making a movie about them. You don't have to be a raging idiot to end up in such a mess; even without the idea of a hive mind, it's not unreasonable to believe that after losing all their leaders and having their ship essentially run aground on a small island full of savages, who drastically outnumber the prawns and quickly and efficiently capitalize on their weaknesses, the prawns would end up thoroughly demoralized and reduced to the level of bare minimal survival, discarding most of what knowledge they once possessed as not being relevant to their current situation.
Kye Dysarthria the prawns are not incompetent though, it’s heavily implied that they are just as smart as humans and are stronger than humans too, if you put a load of cityfolk into the jungle they would also not be capable of surviving well.
Or you know, send 500 Detroit thugs into space and see, if they manage to understand the tech (that is probably on passwords as well) they have on board and come back in 20 years, lol
@ Debo Datta You keep repeating that but that is a lot of bs, such a statement says a lot about your own biases though if that is how you interpreted D9.
In Star Trek Armada, you get to play as the Borg, and it’s awesome! In the second game, you can even merge 8 cubes into a fusion cube, which is seriously OP. At the end of the first game, they even try to go back in time and kill Picard just after the Farpoint mission. This is prevented by a ship from the future.
I think that the reason the Borg are so easy to resist is because they rely on blitz warfare. Most civilizations aren't even aware of the Borg until it's too late. Even those that survive long enough to learn to fight the Borg usually have too small a population of survivers to do any serious damage to the collective. The Federation, on the other hand, first encountered the Borg when Q sent the Enterprise D to meet a cube. If they hadn't known that a Borg invasion was imminent, they would never have had the time to figure out how to fight the Borg. Add into that the fact that the United Federation of Planets in the 24th century was a massive unified interstellar state capable of calling upon untold resources and reserves, and the Federation is starting to look a lot more powerful than you think. Yes, the Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, and Dominion Empires are comparable to the Federation, but with the exception of the isolated Dominion in the gamma quadrant, they're all in the same area. Meanwhile, in the Delta Quadrant, who is there to really rival the Borg in their size and strength? The Kazon? Not even worth assimilating. The Vidiians are barely surviving as it is. The Hirogen have a story line about how their species is in decay and they need a new way of life if they want to survive. The Voth appeared in one episode and were never heard from again. Basically, every civilization the Borg conquered in it's home of the Delta Quadrant was about as powerful as a single Federation Star Ship.
Yeah. Voyager (a low-aggression, high speed scout ship) turned the tides of entire civilizations in the backwater of the Delta quadrant. You'll notice the Borg also basically skipped Hirogen space. And the Gamma. The Dominion would eat them alive. And yeah a full scale invasion on the Federation better be perfect, because if they stall out the assault and the Romulans/Klingon's think it's better to ally with the Federation, you're fighting a unified and highly advanced quadrant.
CAOS that was Q's intention. He made sure the Federation encountered the Borg early. Another 100 years and the Borg likely would have been too much for the Federation to handle.
It’s also important to remember that according to Star Trek history the United Federation used to be an Expansionist Empire that ruled over vast areas of Klingon and others territory before their current state in the show where they don’t technically have a military(tho we all know they keep the Enterprise and other ships armed for a reason cough cough)
The District 9 Aliens were not the creme of the crop type. They had suffered a tragedy which left their populace devestated. The smart, the capable, the ones who KNEW what the h*ll they were doing died. The few that were left were the grunts, the unskilled workers as it were, for the most time. So this one was unfair. We don't know how they are when they are at their best. We don't know what they were like before the tragedy. And when that ship gets back to their homeworld, we don't know how angry they will be with humanity. They might come to get their people and wipe us out with advanced weaponry that THEY ACTUALLY know how to use.
@Debo Datta How so? District 9 is a metaphor for apartheid and touches on themes like racism but it's quite a leap to what you're describing xD I feel like you're colored by your own prejudices a wee bit if THAT is what you got out of the movie.
They didn't stand a chance against earth as they were almost dead from starvation and their tech was severely damaged. All they could do was be thankful for what earth gave them. You could tell from the weapons they did have, that if they had showed up to earth with the intent to invade, earth wouldn't stand a chance.
Okay, so a few things about the Borg: 1, The Cloaking Device ban was lifted by the Federation during the Dominion War after their alliance with the Romulans became official. 2, The phasers the Federation use have a near infinite number of phase variations, to the point where not even crewmen like Data could adapt his weapon to them all. Stupid as it sound, most episodes featuring the Borg have some numbnut in charge telling them to remodulate once the Borg adapt to that frequency rather than, say, have the phasers on a rotation modulation all the time. 3, The Hansen family took every precaution they could think of to stop the Borg perceiving them as a threat or worth investigating. Cocksure? Yep. Bad parents? Eh, hardly. 4, You couldn't transport a nuke on board a Borg cube without it being detected as a threat. It's a frigging nuke! Of course they'd take one look at it and go "Oh shit, dis serious yo!" 5, Of course the Borg die to bullets! They're still organic beings with internal organs etc!
So... advanced civilization capable of assimilate others advanced civilizations that's capable of FTL can't make armors that can withstand a normal gun? Really?
@@takobocchi6057 in the middle ages we have lots of armor to protect specifically against steel maces. And yet, modern protection gear wouldn't help you against it. Point being, so few advanced civilization retain projectile weapons on a large scale that it's not worth the resources. Also, if we include the videogames as canon, tactical drones with thick armor and a shield against projectiles exist. An approach akin to the Soviet doctrine.
@@takobocchi6057 considering everyone uses energy weapons in the future, why would they? You may as well be complaining that the modern soldier seems woefully ill-equipped for sword fights.
For your second point, it actually make sense. Once the Borg adapted to a frequency they could forget that frequency, if they just set it on rotation the Borg may can adapt to every frequency later and you can end up shooting a Borg when you have only one shot and if that frequency was made before then it will be a problem. But the reason it make sense is because Star Trek is like a soap opera and in a soap opera you have to tell the villain every time you meet wit her what she did exactly and when she did that because someone may not watched those episodes. They could say: "Set phaser frequency to rotation modulation!" but they also have to say: "because the Borg can adapt to our frequency if we don't set it to rotation." and it would sound stupid. They using the show don't tell method.
Well, like on pretty much every show ever, when they create an enemy so scary, overpowered, and advanced, that there is no clear way to beat them, they have to then write in some way they can be beaten by the heroes. I think the Borg were cool enemies and they did have every good reason to say resistance was futile. They assimilated like 98% of what they went up against, but naturally the federation beat them eventually. It wasn't easy though until Janeway made it look easy... But then, she did have a borg helping her too.
One of the things that made the Borg less threatening was that even with Star Trek technology the galaxy was still HUGE and traveling across it took decades. So the bulk of the Borg were far away,in the Delta Quadrant, only showing up after long travels. But Voyager brought in all the transwarp and transwarp hub garbage. This let the Borg just pop up anywhere in the galaxy in seconds.Making me wonder why not just send a fleet of Cubes to every quadrant and defeat everyone in a massive strike?
A few problems I have with the Borg assessment. 1: any good Trekky will tell you, modulation is key. A minute change in frequency, can effect massive change. Think about your car radio. 100.2, and 100.4. A small change but they don't tend to cross. So, if we are dealing with a much higher bandwidth, then a half dozen phasers, tuned slightly differently, can have an effect. The Borg update their shields to the new frequency quickly, which is why you may only get a few shots off. If each phaser is tuned slightly differently, and each person takes a shot in rotating fire, then enough damage can be done, before they adapt. Since the object of a Cube mission isn't usually "Lets do some deathkillin'," the crew rarely need more then a few shots. This means they can accomplish their mission. You can clearly see their shields matching a phaser frequency after first drone falls. On a side note, in the episode used, they kept modulating phaser frequencies, and in the movie, had anti-Borg auto-modulating phasers, which by passed their shielding. In Voyager, it should be noted, the Borg Hugh has a near impenetrable shield, regardless of frequency, which is the likely evolutionary path of the Borg shield. 2: The Borg operate on a numbers game. A few drones sacrificed, lead to victory. Loose 6, to save 600. There is even a scene where Borg cubes are being destroyed by the Queen, simply because one or two drones have a sickness that could weaken the entire Collective. Hundreds of thousands perish, to keep the sickness from spreading. 3: It is well known the Borg cubes, while under direct control of the Queen, operate "alone." One is usually enough to assimilate, or eliminate, a species. Just like an insect mound, if you kick in the door, they go into protect mode. However, if you sneak in, and don't pose a threat, you will be okay. Until you get near a sensitive area. Get near a power conduit, and the Borg take notice. Often times, the Away Team are under fire, or very nearly, as they beam out. They tend to not care as much if you were to roam the corridors, as there is little you can do to harm the Cube. The energy used to assimilate, or eliminate, the Away Team, versus the information gathered, is simply not worth it. To assimilate a 4 person away team, may lead to the loss of 10 drones. That would be a net game of -6, for what? Nothing the Borg don't already know, and 4, likely human, drones? It just isn't worth it, UNTIL the Away Team actually becomes a threat. Now, the energy used, versus the cost of the ship, is very in the Borg's favour. 5: Starfleet, as they introduce new phaser designs, also introduce new, finer beams. The frequency changes, so the Borg need to readapt each time. 6: The Holodeck projectiles aren't real. Picard isn't firing actual bullets. He is, in fact, firing points of photonic energy, which have a modulation of their own. To say they are vulnerable to projectiles is like me pointing a laser pointer at bullet proof glass and going "Yeap. Laser goes through. Rock will too!" The scenes being shown are of actual projectile weapons, versus photons. 7: The Borg, taking tech from defferemt species, actually evolve at the same rate at the rest of the galaxy. If the Borg come across something better, they take it, adapt it, and use it as their own. Not unlike many technologies used on Earth. The Motorola walkie talkie used in the 40s? Cellphones. The tech was adapted. 8: when you show the Borg bumping into walls, you don't mention they are undergoing neural degradation of their biological parts. When a human gets drunk, they bump into all kinds of stuff. It doesn't mean they can't navigate normally when they arent under the influence. 9: The Borg assimilate species with better tech. If they don't find them, then the Borg have the best. If they do, they take it. If they can't, they adapt (which is their speciality), and try again. The Borg have the numbers. They almost always will succeed eventually. They will wear down defenses and take what they want. 9: when the Borg refer to "perfection" they aren't saying THEY are perfect. "Adding to their perfection," means they are advancing on the road to perfection. Seven actually refers to this in the episode with the Omega particle. She admits, the Borg know it is nearly impossible, but they are driven to try, like a religious mandate. The Borg were misrepresented as being a terrible faction. They think a little like Vulcans. It comes down to logic. What is the most logical thing to do? Use up copious amounts of energy, and resources, in a battle that doesn't need to happen? True, they can be a bit thick at times, which comes from the partial mechanical nature (and the Good Guys win writing), but it has been shown, when riled, the Borg are a serious threat. Parallel timeline Riker loosing his war, First Contact, and the battle at Wolf 359, where half of Starfleet was lost. That's tens of thousands of personnel, and dozens of ships, including at least one Galaxy class if memory serves. Those are just examples of the threat of the Borg. Survivors accounts also show, the Borg appear suddenly, with little or no warning, and cause massive amounts of damage. The Enterprise was lucky. They had a quick glance, and still lost over a dozen personnel. I'm sorry, but I honestly believe you know nothing of the Borg, though I will give kudos for a well made, if not well researched, video.
@@MIck-M I know the show has to be written so the good guys win. Always. It just wouldn't be fun if in Far Point Pt. 1 the Enterprise meets the Borg and then "And thats it. Jean Luc is Locutus, Riker is a Borg, Data is a toaster, and the Earth is doomed. Later nerds!" That just wouldn't be fun. I just thought the analysis was a bit heavy handed. Certain bits of story were skipped, even lines of dialog that change the interpretation.... Also I'm a gigantic Trekky nerd and take it all way to seriously..... 😂. And just to prove my point.... The Borg combat shields prevent beaming, and if you were to attack with a nuke, you would likely be turned into space dust before you could finish listening to "We are the Borg. Resistence is futile. Prepare to be assimilated." See? Giant nerd...
I agree with most of what you wrote except #9. Borg failed to adapt to projectile weapons on STFC on the holodeck. Odd. One additional point... if I may... the Federation had a chance to wipe them out. Reason not to do so was because it would amount to genocide because our morality supposedly should have evolved as well. Not sure how that would work out if our existence is under actual threat. Ah well. I still enjoyed this video and your comments/arguments.
@@FokkeWulfe Actually, re-reading, I don't disagree with #9 at all. I am thown off by the Borg adapting. Yes, they adapt easily to photonic and other energy based weapons. The issue with the holodeck bullets not being real but photonic in nature, hm yes true, but the holodeck technology works in a similar way as beaming and the replicators. Are the crew eating, in essence, photonic food? The borg should, due to assimilation of other Starfleet vessels, already have been aware of holo technology and are not alien to replication or beaming. That means they should have been able to adapt much more easily to the bullets from the gun on the holodeck scene or create armored drones. Also, ship's deflector shields prevent asteroids and other debris from impacting the Starfleet vessels at warp and at impulse speeds. The borg also have this technologies. Why could they not adapt the drone's individual energy fields to thwart holographic bullets as well? The photonic nature you refer to is plausible from a certain perspective but not entirely convincing from another given they were already familiar with the technology and should be able to more easily detect actual humans as well. Something does not add up. That being said, you make some excellent points in explaining things from a Star Trek perspective. Hopefully non Trekkers will take the time to go through it and be interested in them as well.
@@johnny5wd567 Well thank you. My thoughts behind the holobullets (in case I didn't make it clear enough)... Holodeck technology, and replicators, came about together due to them using very similar base theories. When in the holodeck, should a crewman order food, it would be fully replicated food, just like one would get in say, the cantina (like 10 Forward from TNG). The replicators do have the capability, but are programmed not, to make weapons. It would be easy to assume, then, that the Holodeck, using a replicator, could create real bullets, over holographic ones, assuming the safeties were off. The Borg, being a race born of, and assimilating, energy based technology, may not be prepared for a projectile weapon. They adapt only after encountering something new. As such, they may be susceptible to projectile weapons, at least at first. While a ship's navigational shields may be capable of deflecting particulate matter, a personal shield may not be as adept at it. It takes significant power consumption to deflect matter, much more then energy weapons. The Borg energy source may not be capable of emitting enough energy to stop a bullet, especially at such close range. Given the weapon in question is a Thompson, that is firing a .45, it would have significant kinetic energy. These are my thoughts anyway.
But weapons and machines recognize them and made for their use. Looks like it's mostly a hivemind, but something had happen to their leader. There probably was a leader or something like that, then smart ones (green ones) and then others.
You're forgetting it took the federation a while to figure out the borg ignore you if you don't do anything overtly hostile. And the Federation got completely ass raped at wolf-349 when Picard was assimilated for a time.
Well, part of the original writing for them was they were supposed to be like a 'force of nature'. You can do lots of stuff about small pieces of it, but the whole will just keep coming.
Well...yes. the Xenomorphs are in the end just a bunch of Animals...but....they seem to have a Skin that makes them highlky undetectable. Well not to all Sensor equipment of course, but Thermal Sensors for once would show nothing.
"The resistance is futile" Well, this line (acquired from species #2) worked on all the stupid species we've assimilated so far. Unfortunately none of them known the concept of underestimating the enemy.
Francis Rice Part of the Borg is that they just don’t care. They don’t care about losses, defeats, or failed missions because their resources are nearly limitless, their consciousness functionally immortal, and they consider their victory inevitable. Individual drones mean nothing to the Collective.
The point of "civilizations" like the ones of ants is exactly that to them it hardly matters if some die. Megacolonies of argentine ants control entire continents. Ants make up 20% of the animal biomass of earth, more than humans. Within the same colony, they enjoy complete peace. By certain standards, they are superior than us. Just smaller and more primitive.
About the Borg, you're mostly correct; just a few points. When it comes to "beating them at almost every turn", let's remember Wolf 359, where 40 Federation ships and an undeclared number of Klingon reinforcements couldn't so much as scratch the single Borg ship opposing them, and were all destroyed. Also, in the film "Star Trek: First Contact", we again see that fighting the Borg is expensive. Although the Federation fleet wins, they loose many ships, and still a smaller Borg craft escapes and travels back in time to pose a menace to Earth's history. … Regarding the "no firewall / antivirus not up to date" issue, lets remember that such interference was only possible after numerous encounters with the Borg, over which Starfleet officers learned about them. Initially, when Data tried to access sensitive parts of the Borg Collective Consciousness (in TNG's "The Best of Both Worlds, part 2"), he found he could not get past the "access barriers" he encountered, adding that "All critical systems are protected." … When it comes to remodulation, the number of specific frequencies is theoretically *without* limit, so it's just not accurate or fair to expect the Borg to "remember a finite number of frequencies" in the upper EM band, because there *isn't* one. You shoot. And again. Then the Borg adapt. In the episode I just mentioned, which you were talking about and referenced, the hand phasers kept working *only* because Wesley Crusher had designed "...a chip that would automatically retune them to a random setting after each discharge." {Note: Capital ship combat is arguably a different proposition than person-to-person fighting, so it still can make sense that the Enterprise phasers still couldn't manage to do much to the Borg ship. … Regarding individuality, some Borg get it like Hugh from TNG, 7 of 9 and others "liberated" from the Borg in the Voyager series, and Lore (Data's evil brother) bestows it on a small army of them in a TNG 2-part episode. On the moral front, as Picard explained, it is not a "Liberal" or "Pussy" thing to have some ethics. The Treaty of Algeron was practical in that it kept the peace between the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire. As for using one Borg to destroy his race, I think the discussions between Picard, Guinan, La Forge et cetera all covered this moral quandary. As Janeway would say, it's about not loosing who you are. Besides, *that* issue doesn't make the Borg stupid. At most, it might make people like Guinan and Picard too moral. I agree, though, that the idea of improving on "Borg perfection" seems irrational. They should've keep saying it they way they used to when we first encountered them and for a while thereafter; that was when they used to say "We wish to improve ourselves. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service ours." See that *does* make sense, just seeking improvements, analogous to upgrades. If they'd kept putting it *that* way, they would've sounded better. Going back to that phraseology is one thing I would suggest for Borg story writers in the future.
my theory with the borg is they intentionally gave people a chance to fight them. There are so many borg that the loss of a cube means nothing. So how do you know if someone is worth assimilating? If they can beat you. They find a way to beat one of your ships, or come up with a way that (they think) will deal you a fatal blow... And then you send a gigantic fleet at them and assimilate them.
That would make sense, if the Borg ever learned from observing tactics. But if they learned anything, they should have learned to: 1.) scan their vessels for intruders 2.) use regular shielding and armor in addition to frequency modulated shielding 3.) assimilate military tactics as well as basic technology
TheReaverOfDarkness they assimilate everything the person knows when they become a drone, if they know a tactic then so do the Borg. Remember the Borg cut a path of destruction straight through the Federation, destroying multiple fleets and reached Earth.
etherraichu So, your theory is they are like the Romans? Rome would send a single legion into an area they wished to conquer. usually that was enough. however should that legion be destroyed they'd send the entire roman army.
They only destroyed ships that didn't have TV cameras aboard. Apparently non-protagonist crews are stupid and can't figure out how to beat the Borg to save their lives. Given how big their flaws are, you'd think at least a few crews would have figured out how to beat them.
I think the Borg had other directives than just assimilate. If you make your enemy fight you, they develop defenses/offenses....and so do you. One of the things that pushes innovation is necessity. We wouldn't have a lot of things we have today if it wasn't for wars, because those wars brought challenges that necessitated advancement in science and medicine. That's probably why the borg doesn't exactly advance itself as rapidly as you'd expect.....they were basically apex predators that had no need to. The way they thought, probably limited them in some ways too. No matter how smart you are, there's always blind spots. Let's also keep in mind that the borg had a belief of perfection in cybernetics. Obviously cybernetics would hold them back some, as they could have probably went full machine and gotten rid of a lot of their flaws. I mean the living part of the borg served very little purpose other than as a framework for the technology implanted onto it. This is the part where the borgs purpose starts to fall apart. They did use brains for processing, but they could have likely done better with a machine based processor the size of a borg cube, or even grown brain tissue into a brain the size of a borg cube, and used that as a mega processor for the whole collective. They could have have made more than one too. But that kind of analyzes the borg without remembering where they came from......they were at one point, a race of people who decided cybernetics was the way to go, and that's the thing about the borg.....they still have that directive, it's their 'culture', even if it doesn't necessarily jive with how perfect they could be, the borg are still a civilization of sorts, even if distorted heavily. At some point you would think the borg would just stop and say "meh we don't need flesh anymore", but it's their culture burned into their directive. Another thing about borg is they do procreate, they don't just need to assimilate. So that's indication that they probably do have more reason for assimilation than just adding more drones. Of course, the drones also add experience. Even though the borg are powerful, Imagine what it's like to add potentially thousands of crew from one ship, decades of experience per person. I mean if everyone aboard a ship was just 20 years old, for a crew of 1,000 that would be 20,000 years worth of life experience and different perspectives. Maybe not all of it would be useful, much of it would be redundant, but that's still a lot. Then there's other things to be gained from seeing the bigger picture of a civilization, you might learn things, see patterns no one else could dream of, if you were to assimilate a whole society.
Whilst I'm not essentially into Science Fiction as a film genre, I do appreciate an objective assessment of the classic Hollywood take on the not too distant future...
I love how space explosions of massive structures explode into like, 5 rigid pieces hahah gosh it'd be hot to borrow a supercomputer to render out what an actual explosion in a huge space megastructure would actually look like I bet it'd be like watching a volcano up close when there are just so many more orders of vorticity and chaos than say watching the steam cloud from your kettle
I'd say the Borg weren't so much stupid as horribly written. When they first appeared, they were meant as a one-shot encounter and majorly overpowered, and Q admits that the Federation wasn't supposed to encounter them for a couple of centuries. Unfortunately, with Roddenberry's decision not to use the Romulans as enemies and the Ferengi being useless as anything other than comic relief (and there's a civilization that deserves a place in this list, with their rampant greed and their ridiculous phaser dildoes!), they needed a new villain race, and the Borg fit the bill--after they had been massively nerfed down from hardcore threat to wimpier than the other brand of garbage bag in the Hefty trash bag commercials. If they had been written decently, and used appropriately, they would've been a real threat to the Federation--but since the white-hat Federation is the "good guys" of Star Trek, and of course the good guys _always_ win, well... XP
Borg never loose: If the Borg win, they win. If the Borg loose to superior military force or exploitation of a weakness, the collected data is worth the lost ship, which is also why they send only one ship.
Schwarzer Ritter That only makes sense one time around, not again and again - - the Borg are as "never learning" as the Kaylium of MOONTRAP which stars Walter Koenig
@@oaktharas cant really kill the queen this has been done she simply inhabits another drones body only way to kill her is by killing the entire collective which is why liberating them has become more of the norm (hence the cooperative)
@@jessicamason2526 The "queen" isn't actually in charge of the collective. She is more like a representative for the collective, an avatar used for interacting with other species, though her mind has been separated from the rest of the collective (she can still hear and speak to the collective, but is no longer controlled by it), allowing the queen to have free thought and will. This was to introduce the creativity and ingenuity of a free mind to the collective as a means of combating advanced and adaptive civilizations like the Federation. The need for such was further impressed upon the Borg when they encountered species 8472. Most of the time when the queen is issuing commands, she is simply verbalizing the will of the collective, though there are a few exceptions. The queen can overrule the collective in certain situations because her ability to think outside the box may provide the collective with a better solution than their normal strategies would offer.
There was a joke that did the rounds back in the 90s of the Enterprise installing windows on a both cube. It immediately tales up almost all of the processing capacity of the collective, and eventually a sleeper ship of lawyers turns up and starts slapping the cube with lawsuits
Not to be that guy, but i have several friends from Kenya and they all say that Nigerians are pretty much the gangsters of Africa. Not like all Nigerians are in on it, but its kinda like the Italian or Sicilian mob; loads of branches that all owe fealty to the big bosses in Nigeria. Also, in district nine it's pretty clear that the aliens suffered from some sort of disease or plague aboard their ships, and this is demonstrated in the goo and muck that everywhere in the scenes of the inside. (when you look at their technology, with its clean lines and panels, it doesn't seem like the design of a species that would spend its time living in filth.) this plague essentially numbed their brains, and there are many diseases on out planet that have the same effect on humans. Johnson somehow survived this plague (perhaps he's naturally immune, as humans are to several diseases through mutation) and this is why he retains his independence and intelligence.
@@FrankJerry I spent 7 years living in Italy socializing with Nigerian refugees who flock there in mass. Nigeria is a terrible place right now overrun with gangs, tribal warfare, druglords, and guerrilla forces. There are beheadings and limb removals in the streets regularly. Villages get burned and shot up on whims.. Do some research before saying " you are being that guy.." There is verifiable legitimate proof of the travesty that is Nigeria.. ffs
@@lafleurstudios Since you're choosing to express your ill-informed opinion, I'll spend some time educating you on how to think. Not only are you completely ignorant of the affairs of virtually every African state, but you also choose to talk about a country you do not poses even the slightest inkling of comprehending. What is the population of Nigeria today? As a percentage, how many Nigerians live in Italy today? Does the concept of implicit bias tickle any nerve in your brain? Do you even know how big Africa is? If a Kenyan tells you anything about Nigeria, especially if that person hasn't lived in Nigeria for an extended period of time, there will always be bias in their opinion of Nigerians. Their opinion will come from anecdotal views which would not represent the vast majority of Nigerians. Socializing with Nigerians in Italy to what extent? Where in Nigeria are these people from? And when did they move to Italy? Do you understand what the Nigerian identity is? "Nigeria is a terrible place right now overrun with gangs, tribal warfare, druglords, and guerrilla forces." Where is your proof of this? Remember, you are talking about the whole country. If that was the case, there will be no functioning economy or social life to speak of. Everyone in Nigeria would be peasant farmers, as that is the only way to guarantee they can feed themselves. There is no doubt that Nigeria is not perfect, in actuality, it is far from it. The picture you are painting is completely wrong. Parts of Nigeria have their own unique struggles, that doesn't mean the entire country is overrun with druglords. Nigeria has the biggest economy in Africa and 27th in the world. It is a travesty, but one that has quite a few things going for it. Only someone who has the self-awareness of a dog can go about speaking on a topic he or she has no idea about with the type of confidence you use. You are telling me to research Nigeria lol.. Again pseudointellectual, you are being that guy.
Good video, although you've totally misunderstood prawns in district 9; They are 1. sick and 2. mad and addicted to cat food (!). 3. They can't tell apart human and their tech because they are stranded on earth for 20 years and most of them are born here.
The whole Windows 10 debacle makes me glad I switched to the Mac years ago lol. I only keep a copy around for playing games that don't have Mac clients (which is becoming less of a problem as time goes on, especially indie titles). The great thing about a developer making a Mac client means they can (relatively) easily make it run on Linux too because of how similar the underlying systems are in macOS and Linux. I still have to use Windows at work though, every day reminds me why I happily spent ungodly amounts of money getting away from it haha.
I find that most people who have problems with windows 10 are often ignorant or just lazy. +TalesOfWar Jesus christ, an apple fanboy here? MacOS is not the same as linux at all. Apple computers are widely known to be overpriced, underperforming computers used by hipsters because its a fashion statement. Most software is developed on windows, because it is a serious OS.
+Blox117 Actually, most software is developed on Linux nowadays, because not only is it a serious OS, it is an OS that is made by developers. If you want to develop software in Windows, the first step is usually to install Cygwin, which is Linux tools for Windows. MacOSX is not like Linux at all, that is true, but a lot of things that are part of any Linux are also part of MacOSX. Porting between them is worlds easier than porting anything from Windows to anything else, including other versions of Windows.
Dunno if anyone pointed this out, but the "bullets" from the tommy gun mentioned with the borg weren't actually physical bullets. They would have still been an energy weapon. Specifically, they would have been a type of force field in the shape of a bullet.
Toa-Banshee He also once said lasers couldn't even get though their navigational deflector, only for the ship to be threatened by ships armed with lasers. Someone saying something doesn't make it true or accurate.
The thing is, it's never outright stated that the Holodeck replicates anything. In fact, TNG even says it's only force fields and holograms many times, most notably in S1E1
Captain Picard: Say hello to my little friend.... Once the Borg assimilated the Pakled, they were doomed. "We are Borg. Our ship is broken. We are lost."
voyager tv show overexposed the borg......b4 they was a mysterious enemy that took everything the federation had to defeat, then voyager came and ruined them
Pretty much. They were so powerful that the Q went out of their way to warn the federation. They had to introduce dumb weaknesses (like thier refusal to deal with boarding parties) because a 'race' like the Borg would be pretty much unstoppable otherwise....and then Voyager through power creep and the use of 7 basically defeated the entire Borg armada. It really jumped the shark with the queen though, Borg would never be so centralized in their thinking.
Cube boardings in Voyager were a major source of "OH, COME ON!!!" from the audience. Another major disappointment with The Borg was the makers of Voyager turned the best takes of Giger paintings in tv and film into eye-roll-inducing villains that were mediocre on a good day.
capt rodgers I have also noticed the unfavorable comparison w/ ID4. Next Gen, Borg get hacked by advanced A I targeting low priority system w/ help from an accomplished military officer. ID4, aliens main defenses are shut down w/ virus cooked up in one day, and delivered w/ ship they knew was in potentially hostile hands.
Yeah this started off good but ended terribly. The aliens didn't want to be there. They didn't "come" there. They crash landed. They might have had a fantastic governmential system that took care of the low IQ workers and put them to a good cause but crash landing on a planet would absolutely disrupt that, leaving just a few of them to save the rest. Which the FUCKING DID. Sort of heroic? Kind of but absolutely??? Ish???
Luckily the little blue box didnt win you over, you seem to still have a functioning computer. I love Star Trek too dude, there's just so much material there, I can't not use it! ST is definitely going to take a semi-tempered thrashing on this channel, but I also have some positive/neutral themed ST vids planned for later.
@ G80 GZT f you sir f u waindows fn 10 has been a fkn nightmare for me every fn time it updated it crashed took all of my restore points no help there ive had to reinstall fn win 10 well over 15 fkn times before i switched to home version thats a little more stable it seams fukn win 10 pro tests its bull sht on pro before giveing home the more stable updates, and i still have fukn problems w win 10 fuk win 10 and the fuks that made it!!!!!
The one look at the potential future where the Borg had all but wiped the Federation out, A bearded, half-crazed Riker was irrationally commanding the Enterprise just before it blew, is the other extreme showing us what the Borg *could* have done. It is amusing to think about how many times the Federation won against them, though.
about the district 9 prongs. ALSO SPOILERS They have trouble with their 'own' technology because it is more likely than not, not their tech. The main character is slowly turned into a prong do to their bio-engineering. That implies the original species that built the ship has the ability to do this to others, and likely did to whatever species most of the prongs were before, likely to a species 1-2 evolutionary steps behind humans. This would can also mean the few smart prongs came from a 3rd alien species or may be the original species. This would mean there is a minimum of 3 but likely 4 races in district 9, humans, prongs from species A, prongs from Species B, and whatever made the prongs, assuming that is not Species B. Species A being the stupid uplifted species we see as most of the prongs. The smart prongs were likely few in number, and likely hampered in other ways after arriving. It is entiraly possible the smart prongs failed miserably in controlling the dumb 'uplifted' prongs. side note, im using the racist term prong because i don't know the actual name of the race/species.
I'm NZ European. I am actually surprised someone compared my accent to Temuera Morrison's, because yes he's got more of a Maori tinge to his. There must still be commonalities, or else I'm more hori than I realise.
I love Star Trek, but I've also long thought there were some pretty silly things within the various series, including the Borg, much like those you mention here. BUT-- I think it's important to note a few things about the Borg. For the last couple months I've been watching UA-cam videos about genetic AI's, which make small "mutations" and crossbreeding among the different possibilities from among a larger set, to gradually improve their functionality. I thought this video in particular was very interesting, on trying to create a better wind turbine blade, from about 4:00 to 4:40: ua-cam.com/video/YZUNRmwoijw/v-deo.html It seems that what's occurring is a sort of stagnation in which the genetic AI's have found the "best" solution for the problem, but only in a rather narrowly defined way. The AI used in that video did its best, I suppose, to put together all the pieces available to it to try produce the most efficient result. Yet there's a lot of question as to whether the shape the AI finally settles on is actually the best possible result or not. Yet, according to the requirements placed on the AI and the original "raw material" it had available, perhaps it pretty much was the best result. So, while we can clearly note how incompetent the Borg are across the various Star Trek series, what we may actually be seeing is a case of AI gone bad, basically blind and having a very hard time of trying to spot its blind spots. As is so often the case with various systems, it can be extremely difficult to repair something from within a system, especially when the system that is being used to make repairs is itself broken from the start. We see this all over our modern world. Large monopolies apparently have a lot of difficulty when trying to compete on more open markets. And all throughout the United States broken bureaucracies and other broken systems, with huge stagnation and inefficiency, have become ubiquitous. And the nature of those broken systems often results in them becoming self-reinforcing, one group of broken systems being created by another, and providing shelter to yet another broken group, often preventing any kind of meaningful repairs. So, yeah, the Borg are pretty crappy when seen in the light of the Federation. But, I think it's also possible that the way the Borg operate has generally been very efficient and effective--when faced with the opponents they met before the Federation. And depending on what the "fitness" requirements of the Borg were, it's kind of understandable how they could become so blind to some things--the programming had never managed to sufficiently link together the importance of something like Starfleet officers beaming aboard as a threat. Perhaps it was just too rare an occurrence for them to care. And the more successful the Borg became against various enemies, the more stagnant they became, their civilization having grown so large and having internalized so much of its success that it likely became much less dynamic than it was in its early stages. In short, Borg civilization may have evolved to perfection when it comes to solving one particular set of problems. When faced with a set of problems outside its experience--in the form of the stimuli provided by the Federation--it has a lot of difficulty. Quite a lot of it could just be poor work on the part of the writers too.
Wait, do holographic bullets count as energy or matter? Also IMO, Stargate was able to do the Borg MUCH better than Star Trek in the form of the Replicators (Milky Way, the Pegasus ones had basically the worst qualities of the Borg).
CruelestChris Understandable in regards to food, but if the bullets are real and the gun isn't, it would be very interesting to see someone leave the holidays with one.
No the gun's apparently real too, according the the technical manual, objects you can touch in the holodeck are made using a combination of the transporters and replicators rather than being holograms. We've seen this a few times: Wesley came off the holodeck wet in _Encounter at Farpoint_ , Wesley threw a snowball that hit Picard while he was outside the holodeck in _Angel One_ , and in _Elementary, Dear Data_ Moriarty gives Data a piece of paper with a drawing of the Enterprise on it, which he takes outside the holodeck.
The original idea for the Borg was far more terrifying than what's been done to them with incompetent writing throughout the years. With their introduction in the TNG episode 'Q-Who' The Borg were truly unique in the sense that they had absolutely no hierarchy or ranks in their society, every Borg was a drone. The idea of a Queen came later and with that everything changed. The Borg originally in their introduction did not assimilate other species only technology that could be of use to them, or as Q put it something that they could consume. The Borg multiplied their numbers through some form of procreation or cloning considering that they had a nursery with baby humanoids already being cybernetically transformed. I know that at this point the idea of the Borg species was still very much in it's infancy and needed to be developed, however I much prefer this to the mindless space zombies that they were turned into.
The Borg Queen was a cool idea actually. The way she was depicted in First Contact was basically that she is the collective mind. That's why she was referring to herself as either "we, the borg", "I, the collective" and "I, the borg". Data couldn't wrap his head around this for a bit.
I think it's understandable that the Prawn haven't been given a true episode of their own from this because they don't really deserve one. The story is vague and open to many interpretations, but it's entirely possible for a race like this to exist because it seems like we discover them after seeing something go totally wrong. These aliens may not have even designed their own ship, though it looks like parts of their technology are made to mirror their anatomy. There's many ways to look at this story, but personally I like the idea that this ship was some sort of colony with a caste system - maybe some racism as well where there was a "superior" race of aliens that enslaved the Prawns, whom they purposefully kept uneducated out of fear of rebellion. The alien master race then suffered some kind of disease at some point that left them all dead, and the ship went into some kind of auto pilot mode after that, searching for the nearest habitable planet to rest on and await further orders, perhaps due to some kind of malfunction. The ship could have been traveling for many generations before finding Earth, meaning that the slave Prawn aliens would have all died of old age long ago, passing on what little knowledge they had to their children again and again until maybe for hundreds of years their culture would degrade and all memory of their roots may be forgotten, save for a few close-knit individuals who cared deeply about trying to learn how to liberate their ship.
*The Borg gets written out perfectly in the Voyager finale alternate ending* "Captain. Sensor scan of the Earth shows 7 billion dead Borg and 1 remaining human named John Wick."
The Prawn are a poor example for this list, because their lack of intelligence & understanding of their own technology was the actual plot point of the movie. It was an alien slave ship, so most of the Prawn would have had limited understanding of the tech on board to start with. That & the vast majority of the Prawn survivors were children when the ship went adrift, after the adult leadership, crew, & slave masters died or abandoned the ship in life pods, before it drifted into Earth's orbit. So a slave ship adrift in space, full of the children of slave Prawns... having no adult leadership & education as they grew up... it should be no mystery why they lacked any kind of organization & full knowledge of their own technology. Take a bunch of 1st & 2nd graders, dump them on a deserted island & see what happens.
Well, to be fair, while you are right about the Borg's weakness to primitive weapons, that same movie showed an Earth in a timeline that had been completely assimilated by their armies. That basically tells us that the Borg would have eventually built up bullet-proof shields even if it would take longer than anti-energy shields.
Moreover, does a "bullet" that's actually a hard-light energy projection from a holodeck actually qualify as "primitive"? It's not as if Picard's weapon was actually loaded with physical ammunition propelled by chemical ignition, after all: it was a simulation that only *looked* like a firearm.
lol, the blade ones are so pathetically reckless that they would've gotten discovered and "purged" like the underworld awakening storyline about 1000x faster than the actual situation from the underworld franchise itself.
The prawns were a eusocial species with specific castes. It was basically an ant colony without it's queen, just a single scholar class individual and his son. It was likely fleeing some disaster.
The queen of an ant colony doesn't rule the colony, she is just the element responsible for reproduction. Coordination between different individuals works largely autonomously through the interactions of pheromones. A colony without a queen wouldn't collapse into anarchy, it would just die out after some time as no new ants are born. (There are also ant species with multiple queens)
You haven't figured out the Prawns? LOL! Psst. It was a penal ship and their "leader" *was* the cook or janitor. The rest of the crew were killed in a prison uprising and is the reason the ship ditched itself on Earth. Or maybe I read too much into the movie. ;-)
all the prawns that had higher levels of intellect died after some sort of virus picked up on an alien planet they visited on there way to find resources for home then once the ship had detected that something bad had happened like how we rely on certain thing to save us in there case the ship had detected that fuel and life support would fail so it headed for the nearest planet in the Goldilocks zone but in this case it kinda screwed them over because it headed for earth.The queen of this hive wasn't as resilient and hardy as the workers so naturally the queen or whatever generals that were in charge died leaving these semi beings only half alive and only purpose to take orders and survive by whatever means but since they are a colony ship they had the next generation of prawns and presumably the ones who would have higher intellect, as well as have survivors who were of higher intelligence and lead them in the next generation, that's what we see in the movie with our main prawn he survived and that being ones would figure out a plan to get home and then send ships to rescue them,
How about Star Wars. They use light swords and slow moving lazars instead of guns or some sort of other projectile weapons? Also they created spaceships capable of traveling at the speed of light but failed too created internet or even TV.
Star Wars makes some sense, however. Lightsabers are technological nonsense, but combined with the Jedi ability to deflect blasts make a lot of sense. When fighting an opponent who can deflect ranged attacks back at you such as a Sith, a melee weapon is significantly more logical. Blaster weaponry deals significantly more damage and is far more ammo-efficient than ballistic weaponry. Which is why it's used in the SW weaponry. It's also no 'lasers', it's plasma.
Their internet is called the Holonet The TV functions are integrated onto their spaceships, I think But I agree, they should stick to Railguns and Cluster Missile Launchers
They use plasma weapons in SW over physical projectile weapons is because of efficiency of the ammo. It's easier to mine gas in space or from gas Giants than it is to mine ore and chemicals from less abundant solid temperate planets. And they have the holonet but it's not something the average individual has it was pretty much only for the rich, government officials, or military officials and ships.
OMG.... "they never bothered to keep their antivirus up to date".... i couln't stop laughing... I had to stop the video and let it all out... my ribs hurt!!! too funning!!! Thanks, great video!!!
* Scrolls through comments hoping to find discussions about cool (albeit seemingly brain dead) alien sci-fi species * Finds a bunch of assholes getting needlessly political
Thanks Mohit, I will do my utmost to get part 3 done asap, and will consider other extensions in the future (this format takes me quite some time to make and refine etc, hopefully the process will speed up as I improve).
His points are poorly thought out and seem to be based on HIS ideas of what a perfect society would look like. As the starting point of a discussion their fine but he comes across as if he is all knowing and that annoys me.
Folker46 ! Also, I don't think he comes off as all knowing, as much as disappointed that these stories weren't written better despite the insane amount of potential they hold. Instead they were almost reduced to simple blunderous and almost annoyingly illogical errors that almost make a mockery of these "hyper intelligent civilizations". I think yeah, that was the big issue. How could they be so smart yet so dumb in a lot of ways. It's him (and me too cause I kinda feel his "arguments") being disappointed, not all knowing. Sorry to the maker of these videos if I'm way off and speaking for you when I shouldn't be. Sorry if you dislike me too now also, I'm just trying to think out loud and constructively/critically analyze this cause I really enjoy sci-fi/futurism and I think everything about this stuff is so cool. It's fun to imagine.
For District 9, I have two ideas which might explain quite a few things: 1.: The ship is a generation ship. The 'Prawns' are the leftovers of a once noble race, but long times of space travel - not speedy but conventional - has reduced their former culture and intellect to shreds. Perhaps there was only a limited number of technological devices - like sleep chambers - to keep the 'original' crew alive, or there has been a failure of said technology, awakening large numbers of the Prawns too early. The majority of the Prawns are the grandchildren of the original crew and are thus not educated. CJ is one of the few surviving 'original members' who still know how to control their technology. 2.: This is an escape ship and the majority of the Prawns aren't Workers, Soldiers or the likes - they are, like most of us, white collar workers, who grew up in abundance and luxury. Their society is basically post-apocalyptic, their skills belonging to their homeworld that no longer exists and their survival strategies improvised and derived from fantasy literature in most cases - and not from actual training or experience. In both cases, it also explains why CJ has so little following - his kind might be seen with distrust, perhaps most of them were even killed by those Prawns who adapted to the horrors of a ship not meant for such a large population and he, himself, keeps his knowledge and intellect for himself because it might put his life in danger. For reference, look at what happened during the beginnings of the Sovied Union or under the Red Khmer.
Actually the Borg according to their lore are supposed to be able to remember all of that as they are the largest computer ever. Which is also how they adapt their shields. They should be the most dangerous but writers happened so moderate lore was fine.
he ignored how each separate phaser was always on it's own frequency and was like "well they learned ONE they should know ALL the frequencies now right?"
The point is that there are a finite number of frequencies. If you can learn one or two colors of the rainbow, you can extrapolate all colors of the rainbow.
PongoXBongo that’s not how numbers work mate, colours don’t have any set limit either, we just classify them into certain categories because they can be difficult to distinguish when close
Yes, it is how they work. You have a finite range from the lowest frequency to the highest. True you can always work in smaller and smaller increments, but the min-max and range are known. We know red and we know blue, slide the knob anywhere in between to get any other color.
I am honestly surprised that the Borg ever ignored Data. He is probably the most advanced piece of Federation tech in existence and at least enough information to determine that would have been on EnterpriseDs computer when it was scanned.
You are using scenes with the Borg Queen and Janeway. She is forcing Janeway's cooperation by destroying a cube ship and a sphere ship. 3 or 4 people are not under her full control, so she destroys the entire ship. Later a Klingon drone is able to be out of the Queen's control around the clock, not just when the Klingon drone is regenerating. He takes over the ship and aligns with other ships of emancipated drones against the Queen. The queen has a civil war, insurrection on her hands and must act speedily to regain control.
Prawns shouldn't have been called a hive mind. In the movie it says that they lost their ability to organize and use their technology because their leaders were killed. This makes sense because most people in an intergalactic space ship wouldn't be Enineers and what not. So them not being able to operate the ship makes sense. Also their inability to organize after their leaders were killed is a fact of human history. Africa is a prime example but I fear a wave racists are going to come and troll, but when the leaders of African countries and tribes were killed all organization was shot. African and many other countries who's establishment leaders have been killed experience power vacuums and disorganization which hinders their ability to rise up. Then the Western nations that killed them put in puppet leaders and to bring some form of organization, not for peace but to be able to control the population. If this aspect was added as an explanation for their society it would make for a better movie.
I remember District 9 establishing that it's likely that their alien Queen died on the way to Earth and that that is a big part of the reason why they are so aimless.
It is said space is 3 dimensional plus time but no ship in any of the Star Trek franchises ever goes vertically up or down. Only laterally left to right or forward and backward. Could you imagine how many more civilizations they could meet if someone were to just hit the up or down buttons?
In the Voyager-Series the Borg found 10.000 Civilisations that are worth the assimilation. Look how many Worlds found in the other Series. Plus even we know, that Galaxys are flat like Dishes. There isnts much above this Level.
there no up or down in space, so technically you don't know which direction are the spaceships moving. Also, they do in actually also nose-dive and fly up, etc in th series.
@@muchanadziko6378 I started watching Star Trek in 1966 and have seen every episode of every series except for Picard and the series before that, (disabled 24 years, plenty of time). I have never seen a ship go vertical up or down.
The borg modulation weakness makes sense though. If your enemies use a weapon that uses 1 frequency you can adapt your shield to it but then if they change back you wouldn't know till you were hit again and yes you could adapt more quickly but then they change to a 3rd frequency and so on it get more difficult. The power requirement and number if field generators required to cover every frequency would be totally impractical.
Theory: perhaps the prawns were those outcast in the alien society they sent the ship out to distance the ship the piolets of said ship were killed and with nothing else the prawns became dependent on humans.
For the Prawns it sounds more like the ones that live on Earth are probably from a lower class or caste of their species that took over their ship either by overthrowing their leaders or their leaders died out in some unknown manner.
Regarding the 'Prawns' I always viewed it that the majority of the ones we see were born or matured after their arrival on Earth, so they haven't been raised by their full society, hence we see them in state of decline. Add in something went very wrong on their ship prior to their arrival, and it helps paint the picture that the 'Prawns' we see are not typical of their species, hence the disconnect between their apparent lack of intellect and their advanced technology.
Your point about the Borg do not remember each modulation is wrong. Star Trek frequences go in nano level making it 1.000.000.000 modulations between 0 and 1, and the same amount between 1 and 2 and so on... Figuring out the creation function after two hits, is incredable. This would mean they could instantly open any car that is abled to be opened by a device. As our car key devices only have 1000 different after cero numbers. The functions are extremly complex, in CE most functions use 500-character primenumbers. As you have no plan of engineering, You shouldn't take this point into your argumentation. Its toooo easily disproved.
When your advanced alien society gets defeated with trojans, Tony Montana- levels of rage and pounds of lead, you *should* be concerned about extinction.
Why is a collective dumber than a bunch of starfleet officers? Because of the group IQ formula. Any group's IQ is the average for all its members, divided by the number of members in said group.
With District 9, it was always my “head cannon” that the aliens didn’t actually look like “prawns” originally. That they all were also effected by the same shit that turned the human into a prawn. Then I think most of them just went crazy after changing and being stuck in the ship. That’s why there were few left that didn’t act like animals.
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The Point you made about Frquency-Modelation
is pretty Null and Void to anyone who knows what Modulation is.
Just imagine if Jeff Goldblum had been there with an old Apple laptop when humans first encountered the Borg.
He and Will Smith would get a shuttle and fly into heart of Borg hub no problem then DL virus and fly right out.
The Borg would recognize him as the perfect organism, then he would become the model for all the drones and ships.
🤣🤣🤣
Please don't drag a good movie like Independence Day through the mud I like it
I like to contemplate the spectacle of Skynet getting a couple dozen T800's on board a cube and the ensuing cyberslaughter once they start breaking drones in half. Borg are the LEAST intimidating cyborgs I've ever seen
I always thought that one of the biggest issues of the Borg, which was kind of an aesthetic/real-world limitation problem, is that they never appear to have physically evolved or improved the whole time you see them. They clump around like space zombies and you can comfortably jog to safety if one is chasing you.
Borg Mind changes all time 20 yers and is not the same colllective soo meyby they just start be to strong and colective like optymalizatin soo cut prosess aho dont be needed
To be fair, the fact that they're more weak to physical projectiles makes sense. They adapt their shields to the energy patterns of the phaser shots or whatever, but physical blows are a lot less predictable than a stable beam of particles. What *doesn't* make sense is why the federation uses energy weapons against them at all.
I agree to an extent, but maybe compare it a little to werewolves. You may be well aware that silver hurts them, and absolutely have the capacity to carry around a silver sword, but if you basically never run into a werewolf you might just not bother carrying it around with you.
And then add to that the potential of lots and lots of different threats, most of which don't need silver or may even be way harder to deal with than silver. It really depends on how often you deal with them; but yeah, if you know you're about to fight them, then bring a gun.
Energy dampening fields happen often enough that chemically propelled weapons should be a standard secondary weapon of at least Security officers, the rest can use phasers as defensive weapons aboard friendly ships and stations.
This is among the many things that made the reimagined Battlestar Galactica a much better show. Projectile weapons actually are superior in space and cause much more damage. Forget the Borg, why any of the species in star trek are firing laser beams at each other makes little sense. Look at the last new Star Trek movie..the enemy attacked with a zillion of small projectile ships and the Enterprise had zero chance and was destroyed in a second.
they start ( federation ) think abaut it but after borgs problem ( voyager say hello ) federation stop work on it. and we need remeber federation have a big war vs dominium who stop them think abaut borg for some time
@@bobross1829 Problem is ammo Replicators work cost many energy, most time energy weapon work better and ok borg dont like bulets but romulans federation ect shilds can take a meteor Literaly best way to crash them is to fly this 30-50 light speed one ship into other. Alos Federation like weapon who perfect Target things like Phasers are the best for it. Many civilisation use kinetic weapons but more like big Gauss or rockeds if have self controll ai is even better xd or antymatter or this and this.
To be fair, the Federation would have wiped the borg a LONG time ago if they weren’t so afraid of militarization. Jeez, even some basic body armor would help
Body Amor is Useless in Star Treck, alone the little Hand Phaser can VAPORIZE 10x10 Sqaure Meter Cube of Metal on Max Power
Shields are the way to go, Borg Shields seems useless cause they need the exact lenth to work, but if, they cant be breched by the length
Most other spezies use it the exact other way mostly, knowing the exact wavelength of the enemy made thier shields useless
but thier shields can be breached by sheer firepower
and the Borg never used even a fraction against the federation, over 99.9% of borg vessels are used elsewhere
the Borg have Millions of Cubes, each considered a highly threat
i think in the whole startreck franchise the federation as such never faced even 10 of them, dont even speak at the same time here
even the Borg Queens we know are nothing special
and the non agression way of exploring of the federation is pretty helpful
they have reached thier goals BECAUSE they get rid of warmongers and social slavery so each Human can do thier passions and work on them to thier fullest potential
we have today discussions about 32hour week works and citizen money because the idea benefits really society and is not just dumb left comunism speach^^
@@Sinahji what’s up with that last part about politics? I never said anything about communism or lefties, are you projecting something on me here or?...(edit was a spelling error)
@@stuglife5514 just a common answer of many because a cashless society is leftis comunism xD
so i decided to take this point
and it wasnt wrong at all, just an example to the real world o.O
If only the Federation did not seem to have an allergy to kinetic weapons.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Kinetic Weapons are just useless comparable
In Star Treck nearly each faction Travel Faster than Light without enter a safe Corridor, so even Projektil sized Objects hitting Vessels faster than Light do nothing in Star Treck
They needed against a Borg Sphere (Smaller and Lighter than Cubes) without any Shields 2 Quantum Torpedos to Destroy it
Quantum Torpedos would be in 40k an Exterminatus Weapon, Halo havent Weapons with this Firepower, in Star Wars hard to Say. but atleast 5% of the Firepower from the Deathstar
So its sure to say that using Kinetic energy as Weapon is simply Outdatet in Star Treck
Even Laser Tech wasnt Considered a treath, Picard enable Yellow Alert just for the Starfleet Protocol
If you readed until now a little gift
Star Fleet have in fact a Projektil Weapon^^
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/TR-116_rifle
I feel the problem with the Borg is bad writing. The writers made an enemy so powerful, the Federation couldn’t defeat them without a deus ex machina, that would not exist in an actual civilization that advanced.
Aren't the Borg always very slow and weak against physical attacks
Swords, Polearms and Projectile Weapons make short work of their Drones
Agree. I think the stupid Aliens are the only ones that survived the story selection process and made it to the big screen. A smart alien that wins human civilization will only survive in ... movies made by aliens...
Completely no thinking in writting process at all most useless alien races ever made by short minded crap writers it's pathetic they can't think k past a crappy script idea, who says yeah good idea like wtaf!!!!!!!
In TNG they were OP, the only reason for their constant defeat being the fact that the federation has plot armour, but in VOY it was mostly bad writing.
Q introduced humans to The Borg: and they were meant to be this super ridiculous race of Over powered beings that existed for the purpose of making the enterprise seem small and inadequate for the task at hand. The writers have talked about how the borg were always going to be introduced but they self admittedly say they "rushed the process" and ended up creating "glaring errors as an entirety even if the way the borg presented worked within each episode (two episode story arc) or movie" Andre Bormanis the guy the star trek team at paramount hired to keep them from doing completely nonsensical things still lets the infamous "worst episode of star trek" happen on his watch (tom paris reaching warp 10)
I always loved how Picard managed to take out every one of the bottles and glasses on the bar before he got a single hit on the drones.
Actually, that makes sense seeing as he would've trained to use phasers with no kickback. It's actually more amazing that he didn't lose control of the damn thing as soon as he pulled the trigger.
The Poleepkwa (prawns) were mostly born sick and dumb before they even got to Earth, Christopher was one of few that actually came from their homeworld that survived.
The soldiers, engineers, and organizational leaders probably all died on the way to Earth, leaving only newborns and "civilians" to fend for themselves (they had, what I assume were, pets and stuff on the ship, so it was probably a civilian vessel). On Earth, many of the prawn were born on-planet, which would explain why they don't understand their own technology.
I agree.
muntu1221 rite dued thats true
It could have been a sort of a penal ship with a purpose of getting rid of unwanted (defective) members of "prawn" society, that for some reason (culture, tradition) could not be simply eliminated on site. Limited weaponry aboard the ship might have been there for the guards to keep the exiles in check. If there was any intention of a planetary invasion there would be much more than some hand held weapons and exoskeletons. Drones and aircraft would certainly be used in large quantities and there's nothing like that in the movie.
Yep, iirc it was even mentioned in the movie that the passengers of the spaceship were just 'common folks' and not astrophysicists or spaceship engineers.
From all 'failed aliens', the Prawn are imo the most plausible scenario of a ghetto of homeless aliens.
On a side note, I loved the idea that the spaceship was the one sent by the people of Golgafrincham.
The Prawns are a special case. It was stated in the movie that all those aboard the mothership had suffered from some sort of plague. Given that the mysterious "black stuff" can transform a human into a prawn, it isn't that far fetched to imagine that they could create a bioweapon which would wipe the minds of everyone on board. It is also implied that their offspring inherit knowledge as evidenced by Christopher Johnson's kid as compared to all the other prawns on the planet. So, in short, the prawns who arrived on earth were the victims of some conflict with other factions within the prawn species.
Actually I think the Prawns aren't a species. The movie shows that a human exposed to the black goo turns into a Prawn... So my theory is that the Prawns are another species that somehow got mutated by its own technology.
yes, they are just biological drones somehow engeneered in some way by a total different species. at least it seems to be.
however what speaks against is the aliens reaction to human experients on them.
if tehy are just a bunch of disfunctional bio drones than empathy for each other isnt something we coudl expect.
i think the idea is simply not fully tought trough and jsut had a good start but was never thought trough completly.
a better example for something like that would be falling skies, with their neural implants to be controlled by the real ruling species
I think that a lot of people misunderstood the Prawns or never bothered to think about it. It was made clear from the start that they are a lot of like us and by that I mean stupid (just look at the comment section). It would made sence that most of them were just workers (moving things from point A to point B) or like low level engineers. Mix that with chronic addiction that humanity gave them and you can see how they got there.
I believe that it's biologically impossible for an individual to know everything. I can throw the smartest person in the world into a middle of a jungle and that person will die because it can survive without it's tools. We don't know the details of Prawns arrival on earth but i could argue that there was probably some kind of pilot crew that could actually fly that spaceship ( I mean you need to learn how to drive I can only imagine how hard is to fly a spaceship, lol). What if there was an accident that killed this crew and some emergency landing protocol was engaged...
anyway I don't think that Praws should be up there because
A) we don't have enough information about them
B) they didn't come to earth to obliterate us (which they obviously could have)
@@kukuricapica I have theory that this ship was damaged and they landed on earth by accident. Like u sad some sort of emergency protocol.
What if this ship was drifting so long that it become generation ship. This aliens that we see is great great great great son of original crew.
That after couple generation aliens known less and less about fixing ship, culture and behaving.
Like big kids that they didn't go to shool just play.
And there is low gene pool. Maybe they are not 100% ok. Maybe there are kinda mentally disabled.
Their tech shows that they are advanced, verry advanced.
That would explains all.
Interessting thought
@@kukuricapica sir I learned driving a around 9
It seems like the “prawns” were like exiles from their society, similar to how the British used to use “transportation” to desolate colonies like Australia as punishment for criminals. If there was a revolt on a British prison ship that managed to overwhelm and kill all of the crew and guards, doesn’t it stand to reason that the rebels wouldn’t really know how to sail the ship and use its weapons, and likely would fumble around and drift until they ran aground on some foreign land, and possibly become a ghettoized underclass in whatever country they landed in, if that country had any sort of existing civilization that didn’t know about the British?
Actually it's about whites vs blacks in South Africa,district 9 was a real place there.
@@biliminsrlar5752 There’s obvious and intentional parallels with the Aprtheit era, but it’s also about more than just that.
Bounty and Pitcairn Islands. That is what comes to mind
Oh no space Brits
@James Alexander Dude, stop being so insecure, nobody hurt you, we are not here to question your intellectual ability so chill! Take it easy! You are safe, you don't have to protect yourself.
One of my favorite fan theories about the Borg and their apparent obsession with the Federation is that the Federation is one of the few societies which has been actively able to combat them. The Borg consider themselves perfection, yet are routinely defeated by plucky Human, Vulcan, or Klingon pilots. Thus the Borg have come to believe that the Federation itself has achieved perfection, and as such, the Borg have devoted an inordinate amount of resources into absorbing it into the collective.
"inordinate amount of resources"
One ship.
Twice.
And both broke throughvfleets, defense perimeters and basically reached Earth.
I agree with TwoCentsforCharon
the Borg have Millions of Cubes if not even Way more
at Best the Borg are Curios how much more tech they may Develop which is worth to be Assimilatet
(Like seen in Voyager, they had a short coperation)
Q also made it look like the federation had some sort of transwarp technology that they couldn't find any traces of
"The Borg, our most lethal enemy, have begun an invasion of the Federation. And this time there may be no stopped them!"
"How many ships?"
"One".
🤦🏻♂️
The weaknesses you attribute to the Borg can be said about almost every species/faction in Star Trek.
To be fair, those weaknesses have to exist in fiction. Any civilization noticeably more advanced than us would vaporize us, period. Any extraterrestrial foe has to be idiotified to be made beatable.
Every single tv show or movie featuring alien civilizations as enemy eventually has the humans win by doing something that makes the average guy think "how the f**k did they fell for that"
Angelo Mordasini I actually like the video game Xenonauts for this, but I would have to spoil the alien’s motivations for it.
Ok. The aliens could just wipe out humanity without a thought, but the whole invasion is a test to see if we are worthy of being assimilated into their multi-galactic empire that has no name due to a lack of rivals, or if we should be destroyed completely.
It’s stupid, yes. But it’s a semi-logical reason as the reason has had a level of thought put into it.
Yeah, the Federation obviously has massive plot armor... But that is to be expected, the good guy faction always has plot armor in fictional media.
Ahh, the Borg: They've CLEARLY assimilated Klingon technology yet NO cloaking tech! OH, and SHIELDS?!?!
Iirc they don't use shields simply because they'd rather adapt to any weapon is fired at them, since they can do that relatively quickly. They start using them later on to counter the "remodulating" trick
Angelo Mordasini The whole adapting to incoming phaser fire thing is stupid when you put thought into it. Surely they have assimilated a phaser by now, so they would know all the frequencies that they are capable of, so they could just adapt to them all before attacking the federation again. Since the federation is completely dependant on phasers as their only weapons, they would be helpless to the borg.
That is, if the borg were smart that is what would happen.
@@navaryn2938 adapt to a 700 ton kilimeter long pencil thin rail mass cannon piercing your ship from end to end at 5x the speed of light.
I wonder more why the damn federation spent so much effort on developing ways to fight the borg...but not once thought about taking advantage of the melee/kinetic projectile weakness? Is it to hard to build 12gauges ? Or mount a warp core powered railgun on a ship? They could build a replicater into the loading chamber and sling depleted uranium slugs the size of a volkswagen at warp 5 or whatever.... Dead borg everywhere
They don't really need to. They have a shield instead. And they might not have assimilated many Klingons. They can't overpower someone, they won't get their technology.
Klingons are far too dangerous to pick fights with.
*Thumbs up* for the _Borg_ ; *Thumbs down* for the _Prawns_
The best analogy I can think of for *District 9* is:
Take a cruise ship full of tourists and kill off the whole crew bar one;
have a disease run through the ship;
have it run a-ground on an uncharted island that contains a well-organised and well-resourced civilisation with a completely unfamiliar language and traditions and system of government -
and _then_ have the majority of the tourists get addicted to a substance native to the island.
_Also_ have criminals from a neighbouring community come in and exploit the tourists mercilessly - including taking control of any aid provided by the ruling government.
Oh, and that crew-member? Yeah, he was an engineer.
all the prawns that had higher levels of intellect died after some sort of virus picked up on an alien planet they visited on there way to find resources for home then once the ship had detected that something bad had happened like how we rely on certain thing to save us in there case the ship had detected that fuel and life support would fail so it headed for the nearest planet in the Goldilocks zone but in this case it kinda screwed them over because it headed for earth.The queen of this hive wasn't as resilient and hardy as the workers so naturally the queen or whatever generals that were in charge died leaving these semi beings only half alive and only purpose to take orders and survive by whatever means but since they are a colony ship they had the next generation of prawns and presumably the ones who would have higher intellect, as well as have survivors who were of higher intelligence and lead them in the next generation, that's what we see in the movie with our main prawn he survived and that being ones would figure out a plan to get home and then send ships to rescue them,
It gets even worse, since in District 9 the entire ruling caste was killed off, and the remainder was made up of the worker caste that was never meant to make plans or take charge. An euocial species like the prawn only work if everyone instinctively knows their place and works accordingly without trying to branch outside their lot in life. So with the ones in charge gone, you have an entire shipful of loyal followers, button pushers and assembly line workers without any creative thinkers, born leaders and planners among them. They don't have the mental flexibility to become something they weren't born to be. Luckily in the absence of a ruling caste one (or maybe more, we only meet one) prawn begins to develop into a leader cast member (some eusocial species really have such a genetic failsafe mechanism that prevents an entire hive from dying out) but one person can only do so much, so Christopher Johnson concentrates on what he sees as the easiest way out of the mess: figuring out how to make the ship operational again and go get help.
tbh i've heard other theories too, like this was essentially a prison boat, this might not even be the first generation, and they literally just gave up on teaching 99% of the new population at some point, etc.
it's not that their entire civilization's somehow this inept, how the fuck would they have spacefaring tech otherwise? these guys are clearly bottom of the barrel, but maybe they're the equivalent of some isolated tribe rounded up in a boat or something, rather than an accurate representation of the species as a whole.
also, funny he mentions how the smart prawn doesn't rally everyone, then goes on to mention the one guy he convinced to help him can't even tell the difference between earth and their tech. presumably a lot of the others aren't too far off, and are probably more or less fine with how they're treated, given it's possibly still somewhat better conditions than stuck in the ship.
@@Rick-il3vn Decent explanation, but damn that hurt to read. Punctuation would make that wall-o-text much easier to read. >_
I agree the prawns are just kinda stupid.
"Perfection" ~ Borg Queen at random.
"You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means" ~ Inigo Montoya who I declare canon to Star Trek universe because when corporations can shove whatever they want to Star Trek, why can't we do it?
They definitely don’t know the meaning of the word perfection. If the y did, we wouldn’t hear them say things like “you will be assimilated and added to our perfection”. Makes me cringe hearing it.
@@richardkranium2944 in the words of TFS “how can you be semi-perfect, You’re either perfect or you’re not me”
District 9 has a very reasonable explanation, the prawns were of a social class of servants, that is, they had no individual abilities, they only knew how to follow orders. The advanced civilization is not them, but those who used their labor, possibly slave.
I thought I remembered a comment somewhere that the ship was filled with escaped slaves. But, I have no idea whether that was in the film itself, some comment by someone in the production, or just someone on TV Tropes pushing their fan theory as fact.
@@StarkeRealm Still waiting to 'Discrict 10 "2"'
Servants still know how to use tools, even if they don’t know how to maintain them.
It’s still dumb.
oh, so this is thee actual explanation? Cause everybody in this comment section seems to have a different one
@@sevenclovers7 The prawn are shown using tools even weaponry... but im sure you can use a can opener and pappy's old shotgun but try building a nuclear reactor or flying a fighter aircraf... most humans can't explain how a micowave works.
I mean, the point of the entire District 9 movie is that the Prawns suffer a tragedy (likely their own doing) destroying the bulk of their society, (leaders, military, etc) leaving a small life boat of civilians that really had no right surviving stranded helpless on a world full of pissy aliens not to happy about the situation being forced on them.
europe would have took the prawn refugees and put cashloads into their integration. we seem to accept everything.
Might be dangerous there might be some people who think they look 'edible'.
Add to that the fact that the majority of humans have no understanding how our own technology works. If you write the url of the website in the google search to find the website, you have no clue what you are doing. And yes, the majority of people does exactly this.
90 Lancaster ....I thought that immediately. I speculated on the taste of them with a nice tub of warm,melted butter....Yeah, I`m evil....
Throttle Kitty ...It was a THINLY veiled parable of Apartheid, and a pretty good one. Not my favorite Alien type film, but very accurate in the details as a parable.
"Must be something you assimilated."
Easily the best one-liner of all-time.
Almost.
The all time best is "Assimilate this!"
Resistance is futile.
@@richardkranium2944 Even though it isn't.
The Prawns appear to be a hive mind species with some kind of malfunction at work that interrupted the connection that left the drone class adrift and unable to function as intended.
I could offer counter agreements to every single one of his points on the prawns hive mind and it's disfunctionality. One being that (with the ant analogy) if you were to kill off all but the soldier ants, give them a disease and take away their ability to procreate I think you'd have a group of *very* confused and disfunctional ants. That's pretty much what happened to the prawn society.
Complaining about the prawns is pretty much missing the entire point of District 9. If they were as hypercompetent as you seem to want them to be, the plot of the movie couldn't exist. People on Earth manage to end up in the kind of squalid, disorganized mess that the prawns are in; that's the entire point of making a movie about them. You don't have to be a raging idiot to end up in such a mess; even without the idea of a hive mind, it's not unreasonable to believe that after losing all their leaders and having their ship essentially run aground on a small island full of savages, who drastically outnumber the prawns and quickly and efficiently capitalize on their weaknesses, the prawns would end up thoroughly demoralized and reduced to the level of bare minimal survival, discarding most of what knowledge they once possessed as not being relevant to their current situation.
The point of the series isn't that these aliens should be competent. Rather, it's to show incompetent they are.
Kye Dysarthria the prawns are not incompetent though, it’s heavily implied that they are just as smart as humans and are stronger than humans too, if you put a load of cityfolk into the jungle they would also not be capable of surviving well.
Or you know, send 500 Detroit thugs into space and see, if they manage to understand the tech (that is probably on passwords as well) they have on board and come back in 20 years, lol
yea its a parable to Africans and other people groups around the world that were cut down and decimated by invading colonial European powers...
@ Debo Datta You keep repeating that but that is a lot of bs, such a statement says a lot about your own biases though if that is how you interpreted D9.
In Star Trek Armada, you get to play as the Borg, and it’s awesome! In the second game, you can even merge 8 cubes into a fusion cube, which is seriously OP. At the end of the first game, they even try to go back in time and kill Picard just after the Farpoint mission. This is prevented by a ship from the future.
I think that the reason the Borg are so easy to resist is because they rely on blitz warfare. Most civilizations aren't even aware of the Borg until it's too late. Even those that survive long enough to learn to fight the Borg usually have too small a population of survivers to do any serious damage to the collective.
The Federation, on the other hand, first encountered the Borg when Q sent the Enterprise D to meet a cube. If they hadn't known that a Borg invasion was imminent, they would never have had the time to figure out how to fight the Borg.
Add into that the fact that the United Federation of Planets in the 24th century was a massive unified interstellar state capable of calling upon untold resources and reserves, and the Federation is starting to look a lot more powerful than you think. Yes, the Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, and Dominion Empires are comparable to the Federation, but with the exception of the isolated Dominion in the gamma quadrant, they're all in the same area. Meanwhile, in the Delta Quadrant, who is there to really rival the Borg in their size and strength? The Kazon? Not even worth assimilating. The Vidiians are barely surviving as it is. The Hirogen have a story line about how their species is in decay and they need a new way of life if they want to survive. The Voth appeared in one episode and were never heard from again. Basically, every civilization the Borg conquered in it's home of the Delta Quadrant was about as powerful as a single Federation Star Ship.
Yeah. Voyager (a low-aggression, high speed scout ship) turned the tides of entire civilizations in the backwater of the Delta quadrant.
You'll notice the Borg also basically skipped Hirogen space. And the Gamma. The Dominion would eat them alive.
And yeah a full scale invasion on the Federation better be perfect, because if they stall out the assault and the Romulans/Klingon's think it's better to ally with the Federation, you're fighting a unified and highly advanced quadrant.
Uh. I don't know where you ge tthat they are "not aggressive"
They attack to gather information AND resources.
an invasion wasnt imminent the borg wasnt even going in our direction till q interfered then then federation poped on their radar.
CAOS that was Q's intention. He made sure the Federation encountered the Borg early.
Another 100 years and the Borg likely would have been too much for the Federation to handle.
It’s also important to remember that according to Star Trek history the United Federation used to be an Expansionist Empire that ruled over vast areas of Klingon and others territory before their current state in the show where they don’t technically have a military(tho we all know they keep the Enterprise and other ships armed for a reason cough cough)
The District 9 Aliens were not the creme of the crop type. They had suffered a tragedy which left their populace devestated. The smart, the capable, the ones who KNEW what the h*ll they were doing died. The few that were left were the grunts, the unskilled workers as it were, for the most time. So this one was unfair. We don't know how they are when they are at their best. We don't know what they were like before the tragedy. And when that ship gets back to their homeworld, we don't know how angry they will be with humanity. They might come to get their people and wipe us out with advanced weaponry that THEY ACTUALLY know how to use.
More than likely it's a Hive Mind. The Prawns need constant direction from a small leadership caste.
Ok, this is epic.
yea its a parable to Africans and other people groups around the world that were cut down and decimated by invading colonial European powers...
@Debo Datta How so? District 9 is a metaphor for apartheid and touches on themes like racism but it's quite a leap to what you're describing xD I feel like you're colored by your own prejudices a wee bit if THAT is what you got out of the movie.
They didn't stand a chance against earth as they were almost dead from starvation and their tech was severely damaged. All they could do was be thankful for what earth gave them. You could tell from the weapons they did have, that if they had showed up to earth with the intent to invade, earth wouldn't stand a chance.
Okay, so a few things about the Borg:
1, The Cloaking Device ban was lifted by the Federation during the Dominion War after their alliance with the Romulans became official.
2, The phasers the Federation use have a near infinite number of phase variations, to the point where not even crewmen like Data could adapt his weapon to them all. Stupid as it sound, most episodes featuring the Borg have some numbnut in charge telling them to remodulate once the Borg adapt to that frequency rather than, say, have the phasers on a rotation modulation all the time.
3, The Hansen family took every precaution they could think of to stop the Borg perceiving them as a threat or worth investigating. Cocksure? Yep. Bad parents? Eh, hardly.
4, You couldn't transport a nuke on board a Borg cube without it being detected as a threat. It's a frigging nuke! Of course they'd take one look at it and go "Oh shit, dis serious yo!"
5, Of course the Borg die to bullets! They're still organic beings with internal organs etc!
So... advanced civilization capable of assimilate others advanced civilizations that's capable of FTL can't make armors that can withstand a normal gun? Really?
@@takobocchi6057 in the middle ages we have lots of armor to protect specifically against steel maces.
And yet, modern protection gear wouldn't help you against it.
Point being, so few advanced civilization retain projectile weapons on a large scale that it's not worth the resources.
Also, if we include the videogames as canon, tactical drones with thick armor and a shield against projectiles exist.
An approach akin to the Soviet doctrine.
Say hello to my little friend.
@@takobocchi6057 considering everyone uses energy weapons in the future, why would they? You may as well be complaining that the modern soldier seems woefully ill-equipped for sword fights.
For your second point, it actually make sense. Once the Borg adapted to a frequency they could forget that frequency, if they just set it on rotation the Borg may can adapt to every frequency later and you can end up shooting a Borg when you have only one shot and if that frequency was made before then it will be a problem. But the reason it make sense is because Star Trek is like a soap opera and in a soap opera you have to tell the villain every time you meet wit her what she did exactly and when she did that because someone may not watched those episodes.
They could say: "Set phaser frequency to rotation modulation!" but they also have to say: "because the Borg can adapt to our frequency if we don't set it to rotation." and it would sound stupid. They using the show don't tell method.
Well, like on pretty much every show ever, when they create an enemy so scary, overpowered, and advanced, that there is no clear way to beat them, they have to then write in some way they can be beaten by the heroes. I think the Borg were cool enemies and they did have every good reason to say resistance was futile. They assimilated like 98% of what they went up against, but naturally the federation beat them eventually. It wasn't easy though until Janeway made it look easy... But then, she did have a borg helping her too.
One of the things that made the Borg less threatening was that even with Star Trek technology the galaxy was still HUGE and traveling across it took decades. So the bulk of the Borg were far away,in the Delta Quadrant, only showing up after long travels. But Voyager brought in all the transwarp and transwarp hub garbage. This let the Borg just pop up anywhere in the galaxy in seconds.Making me wonder why not just send a fleet of Cubes to every quadrant and defeat everyone in a massive strike?
Tng had borg transwarp
And don't get me started on warp speeds in the old movies.
A few problems I have with the Borg assessment.
1: any good Trekky will tell you, modulation is key. A minute change in frequency, can effect massive change. Think about your car radio. 100.2, and 100.4. A small change but they don't tend to cross. So, if we are dealing with a much higher bandwidth, then a half dozen phasers, tuned slightly differently, can have an effect. The Borg update their shields to the new frequency quickly, which is why you may only get a few shots off. If each phaser is tuned slightly differently, and each person takes a shot in rotating fire, then enough damage can be done, before they adapt. Since the object of a Cube mission isn't usually "Lets do some deathkillin'," the crew rarely need more then a few shots. This means they can accomplish their mission. You can clearly see their shields matching a phaser frequency after first drone falls. On a side note, in the episode used, they kept modulating phaser frequencies, and in the movie, had anti-Borg auto-modulating phasers, which by passed their shielding. In Voyager, it should be noted, the Borg Hugh has a near impenetrable shield, regardless of frequency, which is the likely evolutionary path of the Borg shield.
2: The Borg operate on a numbers game. A few drones sacrificed, lead to victory. Loose 6, to save 600. There is even a scene where Borg cubes are being destroyed by the Queen, simply because one or two drones have a sickness that could weaken the entire Collective. Hundreds of thousands perish, to keep the sickness from spreading.
3: It is well known the Borg cubes, while under direct control of the Queen, operate "alone." One is usually enough to assimilate, or eliminate, a species. Just like an insect mound, if you kick in the door, they go into protect mode. However, if you sneak in, and don't pose a threat, you will be okay. Until you get near a sensitive area. Get near a power conduit, and the Borg take notice. Often times, the Away Team are under fire, or very nearly, as they beam out. They tend to not care as much if you were to roam the corridors, as there is little you can do to harm the Cube. The energy used to assimilate, or eliminate, the Away Team, versus the information gathered, is simply not worth it. To assimilate a 4 person away team, may lead to the loss of 10 drones. That would be a net game of -6, for what? Nothing the Borg don't already know, and 4, likely human, drones? It just isn't worth it, UNTIL the Away Team actually becomes a threat. Now, the energy used, versus the cost of the ship, is very in the Borg's favour.
5: Starfleet, as they introduce new phaser designs, also introduce new, finer beams. The frequency changes, so the Borg need to readapt each time.
6: The Holodeck projectiles aren't real. Picard isn't firing actual bullets. He is, in fact, firing points of photonic energy, which have a modulation of their own. To say they are vulnerable to projectiles is like me pointing a laser pointer at bullet proof glass and going "Yeap. Laser goes through. Rock will too!" The scenes being shown are of actual projectile weapons, versus photons.
7: The Borg, taking tech from defferemt species, actually evolve at the same rate at the rest of the galaxy. If the Borg come across something better, they take it, adapt it, and use it as their own. Not unlike many technologies used on Earth. The Motorola walkie talkie used in the 40s? Cellphones. The tech was adapted.
8: when you show the Borg bumping into walls, you don't mention they are undergoing neural degradation of their biological parts. When a human gets drunk, they bump into all kinds of stuff. It doesn't mean they can't navigate normally when they arent under the influence.
9: The Borg assimilate species with better tech. If they don't find them, then the Borg have the best. If they do, they take it. If they can't, they adapt (which is their speciality), and try again. The Borg have the numbers. They almost always will succeed eventually. They will wear down defenses and take what they want.
9: when the Borg refer to "perfection" they aren't saying THEY are perfect. "Adding to their perfection," means they are advancing on the road to perfection. Seven actually refers to this in the episode with the Omega particle. She admits, the Borg know it is nearly impossible, but they are driven to try, like a religious mandate.
The Borg were misrepresented as being a terrible faction. They think a little like Vulcans. It comes down to logic. What is the most logical thing to do? Use up copious amounts of energy, and resources, in a battle that doesn't need to happen? True, they can be a bit thick at times, which comes from the partial mechanical nature (and the Good Guys win writing), but it has been shown, when riled, the Borg are a serious threat. Parallel timeline Riker loosing his war, First Contact, and the battle at Wolf 359, where half of Starfleet was lost. That's tens of thousands of personnel, and dozens of ships, including at least one Galaxy class if memory serves. Those are just examples of the threat of the Borg. Survivors accounts also show, the Borg appear suddenly, with little or no warning, and cause massive amounts of damage. The Enterprise was lucky. They had a quick glance, and still lost over a dozen personnel.
I'm sorry, but I honestly believe you know nothing of the Borg, though I will give kudos for a well made, if not well researched, video.
@@MIck-M I know the show has to be written so the good guys win. Always. It just wouldn't be fun if in Far Point Pt. 1 the Enterprise meets the Borg and then "And thats it. Jean Luc is Locutus, Riker is a Borg, Data is a toaster, and the Earth is doomed. Later nerds!" That just wouldn't be fun. I just thought the analysis was a bit heavy handed. Certain bits of story were skipped, even lines of dialog that change the interpretation.... Also I'm a gigantic Trekky nerd and take it all way to seriously..... 😂. And just to prove my point.... The Borg combat shields prevent beaming, and if you were to attack with a nuke, you would likely be turned into space dust before you could finish listening to "We are the Borg. Resistence is futile. Prepare to be assimilated." See? Giant nerd...
I agree with most of what you wrote except #9. Borg failed to adapt to projectile weapons on STFC on the holodeck. Odd.
One additional point... if I may... the Federation had a chance to wipe them out. Reason not to do so was because it would amount to genocide because our morality supposedly should have evolved as well. Not sure how that would work out if our existence is under actual threat. Ah well. I still enjoyed this video and your comments/arguments.
@@johnny5wd567 I'm glad you enjoyed. What is your disagreement with #9 friend, if I may ask?
@@FokkeWulfe Actually, re-reading, I don't disagree with #9 at all. I am thown off by the Borg adapting. Yes, they adapt easily to photonic and other energy based weapons. The issue with the holodeck bullets not being real but photonic in nature, hm yes true, but the holodeck technology works in a similar way as beaming and the replicators. Are the crew eating, in essence, photonic food? The borg should, due to assimilation of other Starfleet vessels, already have been aware of holo technology and are not alien to replication or beaming. That means they should have been able to adapt much more easily to the bullets from the gun on the holodeck scene or create armored drones.
Also, ship's deflector shields prevent asteroids and other debris from impacting the Starfleet vessels at warp and at impulse speeds. The borg also have this technologies. Why could they not adapt the drone's individual energy fields to thwart holographic bullets as well?
The photonic nature you refer to is plausible from a certain perspective but not entirely convincing from another given they were already familiar with the technology and should be able to more easily detect actual humans as well. Something does not add up.
That being said, you make some excellent points in explaining things from a Star Trek perspective. Hopefully non Trekkers will take the time to go through it and be interested in them as well.
@@johnny5wd567 Well thank you. My thoughts behind the holobullets (in case I didn't make it clear enough)... Holodeck technology, and replicators, came about together due to them using very similar base theories. When in the holodeck, should a crewman order food, it would be fully replicated food, just like one would get in say, the cantina (like 10 Forward from TNG). The replicators do have the capability, but are programmed not, to make weapons. It would be easy to assume, then, that the Holodeck, using a replicator, could create real bullets, over holographic ones, assuming the safeties were off. The Borg, being a race born of, and assimilating, energy based technology, may not be prepared for a projectile weapon. They adapt only after encountering something new. As such, they may be susceptible to projectile weapons, at least at first. While a ship's navigational shields may be capable of deflecting particulate matter, a personal shield may not be as adept at it. It takes significant power consumption to deflect matter, much more then energy weapons. The Borg energy source may not be capable of emitting enough energy to stop a bullet, especially at such close range. Given the weapon in question is a Thompson, that is firing a .45, it would have significant kinetic energy. These are my thoughts anyway.
The prawns who came to earth could have been a bunch of undesirables of there species.
That's what I thought. Some exiles or rejects, that for some reason could not be simply kept locked in or purged.
My theory is that are actually the pets of the alien that pilot the ship. That why they are so stupid. they are not the species that build that ship
But weapons and machines recognize them and made for their use. Looks like it's mostly a hivemind, but something had happen to their leader. There probably was a leader or something like that, then smart ones (green ones) and then others.
so basically the aliens that settled prehistoric earth in Hitchhikers guide tot eh Galaxy.
the humans comment that the prawns on the ship were common laborers who had to be told what to do. the leader caste was dead except for one.
You're forgetting it took the federation a while to figure out the borg ignore you if you don't do anything overtly hostile. And the Federation got completely ass raped at wolf-349 when Picard was assimilated for a time.
Well, part of the original writing for them was they were supposed to be like a 'force of nature'. You can do lots of stuff about small pieces of it, but the whole will just keep coming.
Wolf 359 :p
ass rape is irrelevant. defense of the borg is futile
Well...yes. the Xenomorphs are in the end just a bunch of Animals...but....they seem to have a Skin that makes them highlky undetectable. Well not to all Sensor equipment of course, but Thermal Sensors for once would show nothing.
"The resistance is futile" Well, this line (acquired from species #2) worked on all the stupid species we've assimilated so far. Unfortunately none of them known the concept of underestimating the enemy.
Borg share a hive mind get one borg to party the whole borg will party. - Enterprise night crew
What happens on the cube, stays in the collective
Damn, dude, the Borg are my favorite Star Trek enemy and you just totally ruined them. Well done.
Francis Rice Part of the Borg is that they just don’t care. They don’t care about losses, defeats, or failed missions because their resources are nearly limitless, their consciousness functionally immortal, and they consider their victory inevitable. Individual drones mean nothing to the Collective.
@@volcanicwinter4417 invalid? they were clearly defeated by silly shit my man
@@franciscogarciadamiani979 what silly shit exactly?
You should rename the series to “sci-fi writers too dumb to keep working”
Or sci-fi writers that don’t understand the sci part of it.
How about "UA-camrs" who can't comprehend complex ideas"
Why am I starting to get a feeling The Borg wouldn't last a week in 40k?
Ant civilization is perfect, except when you knock out their pheromone trail and they begin marching in a circle until they all die.
The point of "civilizations" like the ones of ants is exactly that to them it hardly matters if some die.
Megacolonies of argentine ants control entire continents. Ants make up 20% of the animal biomass of earth, more than humans. Within the same colony, they enjoy complete peace. By certain standards, they are superior than us. Just smaller and more primitive.
Or infect them with Cordecepts
About the Borg, you're mostly correct; just a few points. When it comes to "beating them at almost every turn", let's remember Wolf 359, where 40 Federation ships and an undeclared number of Klingon reinforcements couldn't so much as scratch the single Borg ship opposing them, and were all destroyed. Also, in the film "Star Trek: First Contact", we again see that fighting the Borg is expensive. Although the Federation fleet wins, they loose many ships, and still a smaller Borg craft escapes and travels back in time to pose a menace to Earth's history. …
Regarding the "no firewall / antivirus not up to date" issue, lets remember that such interference was only possible after numerous encounters with the Borg, over which Starfleet officers learned about them. Initially, when Data tried to access sensitive parts of the Borg Collective Consciousness (in TNG's "The Best of Both Worlds, part 2"), he found he could not get past the "access barriers" he encountered, adding that "All critical systems are protected." …
When it comes to remodulation, the number of specific frequencies is theoretically *without* limit, so it's just not accurate or fair to expect the Borg to "remember a finite number of frequencies" in the upper EM band, because there *isn't* one. You shoot. And again. Then the Borg adapt. In the episode I just mentioned, which you were talking about and referenced, the hand phasers kept working *only* because Wesley Crusher had designed "...a chip that would automatically retune them to a random setting after each discharge." {Note: Capital ship combat is arguably a different proposition than person-to-person fighting, so it still can make sense that the Enterprise phasers still couldn't manage to do much to the Borg ship. …
Regarding individuality, some Borg get it like Hugh from TNG, 7 of 9 and others "liberated" from the Borg in the Voyager series, and Lore (Data's evil brother) bestows it on a small army of them in a TNG 2-part episode.
On the moral front, as Picard explained, it is not a "Liberal" or "Pussy" thing to have some ethics. The Treaty of Algeron was practical in that it kept the peace between the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire. As for using one Borg to destroy his race, I think the discussions between Picard, Guinan, La Forge et cetera all covered this moral quandary. As Janeway would say, it's about not loosing who you are. Besides, *that* issue doesn't make the Borg stupid. At most, it might make people like Guinan and Picard too moral.
I agree, though, that the idea of improving on "Borg perfection" seems irrational. They should've keep saying it they way they used to when we first encountered them and for a while thereafter; that was when they used to say "We wish to improve ourselves. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service ours." See that *does* make sense, just seeking improvements, analogous to upgrades. If they'd kept putting it *that* way, they would've sounded better. Going back to that phraseology is one thing I would suggest for Borg story writers in the future.
my theory with the borg is they intentionally gave people a chance to fight them. There are so many borg that the loss of a cube means nothing. So how do you know if someone is worth assimilating? If they can beat you. They find a way to beat one of your ships, or come up with a way that (they think) will deal you a fatal blow... And then you send a gigantic fleet at them and assimilate them.
That would make sense, if the Borg ever learned from observing tactics. But if they learned anything, they should have learned to:
1.) scan their vessels for intruders
2.) use regular shielding and armor in addition to frequency modulated shielding
3.) assimilate military tactics as well as basic technology
TheReaverOfDarkness they assimilate everything the person knows when they become a drone, if they know a tactic then so do the Borg.
Remember the Borg cut a path of destruction straight through the Federation, destroying multiple fleets and reached Earth.
etherraichu So, your theory is they are like the Romans?
Rome would send a single legion into an area they wished to conquer. usually that was enough. however should that legion be destroyed they'd send the entire roman army.
They only destroyed ships that didn't have TV cameras aboard. Apparently non-protagonist crews are stupid and can't figure out how to beat the Borg to save their lives. Given how big their flaws are, you'd think at least a few crews would have figured out how to beat them.
I think the Borg had other directives than just assimilate. If you make your enemy fight you, they develop defenses/offenses....and so do you. One of the things that pushes innovation is necessity. We wouldn't have a lot of things we have today if it wasn't for wars, because those wars brought challenges that necessitated advancement in science and medicine. That's probably why the borg doesn't exactly advance itself as rapidly as you'd expect.....they were basically apex predators that had no need to. The way they thought, probably limited them in some ways too. No matter how smart you are, there's always blind spots.
Let's also keep in mind that the borg had a belief of perfection in cybernetics. Obviously cybernetics would hold them back some, as they could have probably went full machine and gotten rid of a lot of their flaws. I mean the living part of the borg served very little purpose other than as a framework for the technology implanted onto it. This is the part where the borgs purpose starts to fall apart. They did use brains for processing, but they could have likely done better with a machine based processor the size of a borg cube, or even grown brain tissue into a brain the size of a borg cube, and used that as a mega processor for the whole collective. They could have have made more than one too.
But that kind of analyzes the borg without remembering where they came from......they were at one point, a race of people who decided cybernetics was the way to go, and that's the thing about the borg.....they still have that directive, it's their 'culture', even if it doesn't necessarily jive with how perfect they could be, the borg are still a civilization of sorts, even if distorted heavily. At some point you would think the borg would just stop and say "meh we don't need flesh anymore", but it's their culture burned into their directive.
Another thing about borg is they do procreate, they don't just need to assimilate. So that's indication that they probably do have more reason for assimilation than just adding more drones. Of course, the drones also add experience. Even though the borg are powerful, Imagine what it's like to add potentially thousands of crew from one ship, decades of experience per person. I mean if everyone aboard a ship was just 20 years old, for a crew of 1,000 that would be 20,000 years worth of life experience and different perspectives. Maybe not all of it would be useful, much of it would be redundant, but that's still a lot. Then there's other things to be gained from seeing the bigger picture of a civilization, you might learn things, see patterns no one else could dream of, if you were to assimilate a whole society.
Whilst I'm not essentially into Science Fiction as a film genre, I do appreciate an objective assessment of the classic Hollywood take on the not too distant future...
I love how space explosions of massive structures explode into like, 5 rigid pieces hahah gosh it'd be hot to borrow a supercomputer to render out what an actual explosion in a huge space megastructure would actually look like I bet it'd be like watching a volcano up close when there are just so many more orders of vorticity and chaos than say watching the steam cloud from your kettle
I'd say the Borg weren't so much stupid as horribly written. When they first appeared, they were meant as a one-shot encounter and majorly overpowered, and Q admits that the Federation wasn't supposed to encounter them for a couple of centuries. Unfortunately, with Roddenberry's decision not to use the Romulans as enemies and the Ferengi being useless as anything other than comic relief (and there's a civilization that deserves a place in this list, with their rampant greed and their ridiculous phaser dildoes!), they needed a new villain race, and the Borg fit the bill--after they had been massively nerfed down from hardcore threat to wimpier than the other brand of garbage bag in the Hefty trash bag commercials. If they had been written decently, and used appropriately, they would've been a real threat to the Federation--but since the white-hat Federation is the "good guys" of Star Trek, and of course the good guys _always_ win, well... XP
LMAO, I had forgoten about the phaser dildos from TNG season 1
Borg never loose:
If the Borg win, they win.
If the Borg loose to superior military force or exploitation of a weakness, the collected data is worth the lost ship, which is also why they send only one ship.
Schwarzer Ritter That only makes sense one time around, not again and again - - the Borg are as "never learning" as the Kaylium of MOONTRAP which stars Walter Koenig
Unless you kill the queen... honestly, I don’t know what happens next. Do they have a back up queen?
@@oaktharasI think they just either shut down, or continue as they were pre-assimilation
@@oaktharas cant really kill the queen this has been done she simply inhabits another drones body only way to kill her is by killing the entire collective which is why liberating them has become more of the norm (hence the cooperative)
@@jessicamason2526 The "queen" isn't actually in charge of the collective. She is more like a representative for the collective, an avatar used for interacting with other species, though her mind has been separated from the rest of the collective (she can still hear and speak to the collective, but is no longer controlled by it), allowing the queen to have free thought and will. This was to introduce the creativity and ingenuity of a free mind to the collective as a means of combating advanced and adaptive civilizations like the Federation. The need for such was further impressed upon the Borg when they encountered species 8472.
Most of the time when the queen is issuing commands, she is simply verbalizing the will of the collective, though there are a few exceptions. The queen can overrule the collective in certain situations because her ability to think outside the box may provide the collective with a better solution than their normal strategies would offer.
The Borg may be imperfect, but Jeri Ryan isn't.
Especially in a skintight catsuit.. that caboose was hand sculpted by God!
@@randomguy2518 Aye, she's God's avatar of perfection. ;)
Seven
The only thing more flawed than the Borg.... Windows 10
There was a joke that did the rounds back in the 90s of the Enterprise installing windows on a both cube. It immediately tales up almost all of the processing capacity of the collective, and eventually a sleeper ship of lawyers turns up and starts slapping the cube with lawsuits
Not to be that guy, but i have several friends from Kenya and they all say that Nigerians are pretty much the gangsters of Africa. Not like all Nigerians are in on it, but its kinda like the Italian or Sicilian mob; loads of branches that all owe fealty to the big bosses in Nigeria.
Also, in district nine it's pretty clear that the aliens suffered from some sort of disease or plague aboard their ships, and this is demonstrated in the goo and muck that everywhere in the scenes of the inside. (when you look at their technology, with its clean lines and panels, it doesn't seem like the design of a species that would spend its time living in filth.) this plague essentially numbed their brains, and there are many diseases on out planet that have the same effect on humans. Johnson somehow survived this plague (perhaps he's naturally immune, as humans are to several diseases through mutation) and this is why he retains his independence and intelligence.
Lol. You are being that guy. All your friends from Kenya are the authority on everything Africa.
@@FrankJerry I spent 7 years living in Italy socializing with Nigerian refugees who flock there in mass. Nigeria is a terrible place right now overrun with gangs, tribal warfare, druglords, and guerrilla forces. There are beheadings and limb removals in the streets regularly. Villages get burned and shot up on whims.. Do some research before saying " you are being that guy.." There is verifiable legitimate proof of the travesty that is Nigeria.. ffs
@@lafleurstudios Since you're choosing to express your ill-informed opinion, I'll spend some time educating you on how to think. Not only are you completely ignorant of the affairs of virtually every African state, but you also choose to talk about a country you do not poses even the slightest inkling of comprehending. What is the population of Nigeria today? As a percentage, how many Nigerians live in Italy today? Does the concept of implicit bias tickle any nerve in your brain? Do you even know how big Africa is?
If a Kenyan tells you anything about Nigeria, especially if that person hasn't lived in Nigeria for an extended period of time, there will always be bias in their opinion of Nigerians. Their opinion will come from anecdotal views which would not represent the vast majority of Nigerians.
Socializing with Nigerians in Italy to what extent? Where in Nigeria are these people from? And when did they move to Italy? Do you understand what the Nigerian identity is?
"Nigeria is a terrible place right now overrun with gangs, tribal warfare, druglords, and guerrilla forces." Where is your proof of this? Remember, you are talking about the whole country. If that was the case, there will be no functioning economy or social life to speak of. Everyone in Nigeria would be peasant farmers, as that is the only way to guarantee they can feed themselves.
There is no doubt that Nigeria is not perfect, in actuality, it is far from it. The picture you are painting is completely wrong. Parts of Nigeria have their own unique struggles, that doesn't mean the entire country is overrun with druglords. Nigeria has the biggest economy in Africa and 27th in the world. It is a travesty, but one that has quite a few things going for it. Only someone who has the self-awareness of a dog can go about speaking on a topic he or she has no idea about with the type of confidence you use. You are telling me to research Nigeria lol.. Again pseudointellectual, you are being that guy.
@@FrankJerry is a shithole tho
@@nestormentoso8707 Is that the best you can do? Someone give this child a candy.
If Picard shout in that holodeck scene "Say hallo to my little friend!" then it would be perfect.
Good video, although you've totally misunderstood prawns in district 9; They are 1. sick and 2. mad and addicted to cat food (!). 3. They can't tell apart human and their tech because they are stranded on earth for 20 years and most of them are born here.
Subscribed after the windows 10 upgrade prompt.
Careful you dont click the little blue box by accident. That shit can be deadly.
I still have 7 and until things start seriously breaking by god im sticking with it.
The whole Windows 10 debacle makes me glad I switched to the Mac years ago lol. I only keep a copy around for playing games that don't have Mac clients (which is becoming less of a problem as time goes on, especially indie titles). The great thing about a developer making a Mac client means they can (relatively) easily make it run on Linux too because of how similar the underlying systems are in macOS and Linux.
I still have to use Windows at work though, every day reminds me why I happily spent ungodly amounts of money getting away from it haha.
I find that most people who have problems with windows 10 are often ignorant or just lazy.
+TalesOfWar Jesus christ, an apple fanboy here? MacOS is not the same as linux at all. Apple computers are widely known to be overpriced, underperforming computers used by hipsters because its a fashion statement. Most software is developed on windows, because it is a serious OS.
+Blox117
Actually, most software is developed on Linux nowadays, because not only is it a serious OS, it is an OS that is made by developers. If you want to develop software in Windows, the first step is usually to install Cygwin, which is Linux tools for Windows.
MacOSX is not like Linux at all, that is true, but a lot of things that are part of any Linux are also part of MacOSX. Porting between them is worlds easier than porting anything from Windows to anything else, including other versions of Windows.
Was I the only person who got the ' need another Timmy' reference from the 90s show?
Nope I got it too
@@simonpetrikov3992 Thank God. Yeah from the show Dinosaurs in the 90s. I used to love that show.
5:39 I nearly punched my screen.
jfcwtfusernames lmao
Dunno if anyone pointed this out, but the "bullets" from the tommy gun mentioned with the borg weren't actually physical bullets. They would have still been an energy weapon. Specifically, they would have been a type of force field in the shape of a bullet.
Morpheous XO
No, they wouldn't. The holodeck uses replicators to make the objects you can handle, it'd just be a regular gun.
The holodeck replicated all 50 rounds of .45 ACP when the safety protocol was turned off by Picard. It's a very real Thompson.
CruelestChris Actually, Picard even said that holograms can kill.
Toa-Banshee
He also once said lasers couldn't even get though their navigational deflector, only for the ship to be threatened by ships armed with lasers. Someone saying something doesn't make it true or accurate.
The thing is, it's never outright stated that the Holodeck replicates anything. In fact, TNG even says it's only force fields and holograms many times, most notably in S1E1
Captain Picard: Say hello to my little friend....
Once the Borg assimilated the Pakled, they were doomed. "We are Borg. Our ship is broken. We are lost."
We are borg. We are futile.
voyager tv show overexposed the borg......b4 they was a mysterious enemy that took everything the federation had to defeat, then voyager came and ruined them
Agreed, I had far too many cube explosions to choose from in the voyager series.
Pretty much. They were so powerful that the Q went out of their way to warn the federation. They had to introduce dumb weaknesses (like thier refusal to deal with boarding parties) because a 'race' like the Borg would be pretty much unstoppable otherwise....and then Voyager through power creep and the use of 7 basically defeated the entire Borg armada. It really jumped the shark with the queen though, Borg would never be so centralized in their thinking.
Cube boardings in Voyager were a major source of "OH, COME ON!!!" from the audience.
Another major disappointment with The Borg was the makers of Voyager turned the best takes of Giger paintings in tv and film into eye-roll-inducing villains that were mediocre on a good day.
capt rodgers I have also noticed the unfavorable comparison w/ ID4. Next Gen, Borg get hacked by advanced A I targeting low priority system w/ help from an accomplished military officer. ID4, aliens main defenses are shut down w/ virus cooked up in one day, and delivered w/ ship they knew was in potentially hostile hands.
Really? Did you miss the boomstick weakness?
Yeah this started off good but ended terribly. The aliens didn't want to be there. They didn't "come" there. They crash landed. They might have had a fantastic governmential system that took care of the low IQ workers and put them to a good cause but crash landing on a planet would absolutely disrupt that, leaving just a few of them to save the rest. Which the FUCKING DID. Sort of heroic? Kind of but absolutely??? Ish???
I just wanna say I'm Nigerian. I tried to hold back my laughter but I couldn't. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🧐
Exactly I don't think he's ever studied Nigeria or it's people or even set foot in a ghetto.
lol, as much as I love star trek and was a little bit grumbly... you won me over with the windows 10 upgrade...
Luckily the little blue box didnt win you over, you seem to still have a functioning computer.
I love Star Trek too dude, there's just so much material there, I can't not use it! ST is definitely going to take a semi-tempered thrashing on this channel, but I also have some positive/neutral themed ST vids planned for later.
Media Zealot
I have w10 and its actually good.
Better than any other windows version ive used in 9 years.
@ G80 GZT f you sir f u waindows fn 10 has been a fkn nightmare for me every fn time it updated it crashed took all of my restore points no help there ive had to reinstall fn win 10 well over 15 fkn times before i switched to home version thats a little more stable it seams fukn win 10 pro tests its bull sht on pro before giveing home the more stable updates, and i still have fukn problems w win 10 fuk win 10 and the fuks that made it!!!!!
CAOSWOLFIII so, how do you really feel about Microsoft?
Surely if the borg assimilated better tech when they came across it, they would have upgraded to Linux long ago :-)
The one look at the potential future where the Borg had all but wiped the Federation out, A bearded, half-crazed Riker was irrationally commanding the Enterprise just before it blew, is the other extreme showing us what the Borg *could* have done. It is amusing to think about how many times the Federation won against them, though.
The writers had something great, used it too often and couldnt have them win.... Thats what you get.
maybe thrice in TNG (seven seasons), once in First Contact
I haven't seen Voyager or DS9 yet, but so far it isn't much
Quick question: how, exactly, would you have The Borg adapt to the phase variance of a Tommy gun that doesn't use phaser technology? Just curious.
about the district 9 prongs.
ALSO SPOILERS
They have trouble with their 'own' technology because it is more likely than not, not their tech. The main character is slowly turned into a prong do to their bio-engineering. That implies the original species that built the ship has the ability to do this to others, and likely did to whatever species most of the prongs were before, likely to a species 1-2 evolutionary steps behind humans. This would can also mean the few smart prongs came from a 3rd alien species or may be the original species.
This would mean there is a minimum of 3 but likely 4 races in district 9, humans, prongs from species A, prongs from Species B, and whatever made the prongs, assuming that is not Species B. Species A being the stupid uplifted species we see as most of the prongs. The smart prongs were likely few in number, and likely hampered in other ways after arriving. It is entiraly possible the smart prongs failed miserably in controlling the dumb 'uplifted' prongs.
side note, im using the racist term prong because i don't know the actual name of the race/species.
still dead It's Poleepkwa
Has anyone told you that you sound like a clone trooper?
That's a good ear you have there Neal :) Boba, Jango and the clones and I, all have lineage from the same place......Mandalore.
I'm NZ European. I am actually surprised someone compared my accent to Temuera Morrison's, because yes he's got more of a Maori tinge to his. There must still be commonalities, or else I'm more hori than I realise.
whangarei here. was nice to hear a familiar accent online. nice vids dude
Welcome mate! Thanks a lot! Just another Aucklander here :)
To my ear, you're kiwi as fuck. Nothing wrong with that though.
I love Star Trek, but I've also long thought there were some pretty silly things within the various series, including the Borg, much like those you mention here. BUT--
I think it's important to note a few things about the Borg. For the last couple months I've been watching UA-cam videos about genetic AI's, which make small "mutations" and crossbreeding among the different possibilities from among a larger set, to gradually improve their functionality. I thought this video in particular was very interesting, on trying to create a better wind turbine blade, from about 4:00 to 4:40: ua-cam.com/video/YZUNRmwoijw/v-deo.html
It seems that what's occurring is a sort of stagnation in which the genetic AI's have found the "best" solution for the problem, but only in a rather narrowly defined way. The AI used in that video did its best, I suppose, to put together all the pieces available to it to try produce the most efficient result. Yet there's a lot of question as to whether the shape the AI finally settles on is actually the best possible result or not. Yet, according to the requirements placed on the AI and the original "raw material" it had available, perhaps it pretty much was the best result.
So, while we can clearly note how incompetent the Borg are across the various Star Trek series, what we may actually be seeing is a case of AI gone bad, basically blind and having a very hard time of trying to spot its blind spots. As is so often the case with various systems, it can be extremely difficult to repair something from within a system, especially when the system that is being used to make repairs is itself broken from the start.
We see this all over our modern world. Large monopolies apparently have a lot of difficulty when trying to compete on more open markets. And all throughout the United States broken bureaucracies and other broken systems, with huge stagnation and inefficiency, have become ubiquitous. And the nature of those broken systems often results in them becoming self-reinforcing, one group of broken systems being created by another, and providing shelter to yet another broken group, often preventing any kind of meaningful repairs.
So, yeah, the Borg are pretty crappy when seen in the light of the Federation. But, I think it's also possible that the way the Borg operate has generally been very efficient and effective--when faced with the opponents they met before the Federation. And depending on what the "fitness" requirements of the Borg were, it's kind of understandable how they could become so blind to some things--the programming had never managed to sufficiently link together the importance of something like Starfleet officers beaming aboard as a threat. Perhaps it was just too rare an occurrence for them to care. And the more successful the Borg became against various enemies, the more stagnant they became, their civilization having grown so large and having internalized so much of its success that it likely became much less dynamic than it was in its early stages.
In short, Borg civilization may have evolved to perfection when it comes to solving one particular set of problems. When faced with a set of problems outside its experience--in the form of the stimuli provided by the Federation--it has a lot of difficulty.
Quite a lot of it could just be poor work on the part of the writers too.
IIRC, inherent broken-ness of the Borg Collective was openly shown in one of the novels.
Damn. You just opened up a really deep rabbit hole for me with that turbine video.
The Borg are just the civilizational version of the Peter Principle.
The borg episodes were always my favorite of Voyager.
Wait, do holographic bullets count as energy or matter?
Also IMO, Stargate was able to do the Borg MUCH better than Star Trek in the form of the Replicators (Milky Way, the Pegasus ones had basically the worst qualities of the Borg).
RRW
Holodeck bullets would be matter, they say that things you handle on the holodeck are normal replicated stufd, hence being able to eat food there.
CruelestChris Understandable in regards to food, but if the bullets are real and the gun isn't, it would be very interesting to see someone leave the holidays with one.
No the gun's apparently real too, according the the technical manual, objects you can touch in the holodeck are made using a combination of the transporters and replicators rather than being holograms. We've seen this a few times: Wesley came off the holodeck wet in _Encounter at Farpoint_ , Wesley threw a snowball that hit Picard while he was outside the holodeck in _Angel One_ , and in _Elementary, Dear Data_ Moriarty gives Data a piece of paper with a drawing of the Enterprise on it, which he takes outside the holodeck.
CruelestChris I guess I'm just confused as to exactly what does and doesn't dissapear when a something created in the holodeck leaves it.
I think in that case you're in the company of all of the writers :D
The original idea for the Borg was far more terrifying than what's been done to them with incompetent writing throughout the years. With their introduction in the TNG episode 'Q-Who' The Borg were truly unique in the sense that they had absolutely no hierarchy or ranks in their society, every Borg was a drone. The idea of a Queen came later and with that everything changed. The Borg originally in their introduction did not assimilate other species only technology that could be of use to them, or as Q put it something that they could consume. The Borg multiplied their numbers through some form of procreation or cloning considering that they had a nursery with baby humanoids already being cybernetically transformed. I know that at this point the idea of the Borg species was still very much in it's infancy and needed to be developed, however I much prefer this to the mindless space zombies that they were turned into.
The Borg Queen was a cool idea actually. The way she was depicted in First Contact was basically that she is the collective mind. That's why she was referring to herself as either "we, the borg", "I, the collective" and "I, the borg". Data couldn't wrap his head around this for a bit.
I think it's understandable that the Prawn haven't been given a true episode of their own from this because they don't really deserve one. The story is vague and open to many interpretations, but it's entirely possible for a race like this to exist because it seems like we discover them after seeing something go totally wrong. These aliens may not have even designed their own ship, though it looks like parts of their technology are made to mirror their anatomy.
There's many ways to look at this story, but personally I like the idea that this ship was some sort of colony with a caste system - maybe some racism as well where there was a "superior" race of aliens that enslaved the Prawns, whom they purposefully kept uneducated out of fear of rebellion. The alien master race then suffered some kind of disease at some point that left them all dead, and the ship went into some kind of auto pilot mode after that, searching for the nearest habitable planet to rest on and await further orders, perhaps due to some kind of malfunction. The ship could have been traveling for many generations before finding Earth, meaning that the slave Prawn aliens would have all died of old age long ago, passing on what little knowledge they had to their children again and again until maybe for hundreds of years their culture would degrade and all memory of their roots may be forgotten, save for a few close-knit individuals who cared deeply about trying to learn how to liberate their ship.
Imagine if Alien: Covenant, Prometheus and Star trek were in a same universe
and imperium of man would just get in for measure
*The Borg gets written out perfectly in the Voyager finale alternate ending*
"Captain. Sensor scan of the Earth shows 7 billion dead Borg and 1 remaining human named John Wick."
"Will it hurt to be a drone?"
_"Sleep"_
Father of the galaxy
The Prawn are a poor example for this list, because their lack of intelligence & understanding of their own technology was the actual plot point of the movie.
It was an alien slave ship, so most of the Prawn would have had limited understanding of the tech on board to start with.
That & the vast majority of the Prawn survivors were children when the ship went adrift, after the adult leadership, crew, & slave masters died or abandoned the ship in life pods, before it drifted into Earth's orbit.
So a slave ship adrift in space, full of the children of slave Prawns...
having no adult leadership & education as they grew up...
it should be no mystery why they lacked any kind of organization & full knowledge of their own technology.
Take a bunch of 1st & 2nd graders, dump them on a deserted island & see what happens.
Lord of the Flies.
Well, to be fair, while you are right about the Borg's weakness to primitive weapons, that same movie showed an Earth in a timeline that had been completely assimilated by their armies. That basically tells us that the Borg would have eventually built up bullet-proof shields even if it would take longer than anti-energy shields.
Moreover, does a "bullet" that's actually a hard-light energy projection from a holodeck actually qualify as "primitive"? It's not as if Picard's weapon was actually loaded with physical ammunition propelled by chemical ignition, after all: it was a simulation that only *looked* like a firearm.
Make one about the Blade vampires and one about the Underworld vampires.
lol, the blade ones are so pathetically reckless that they would've gotten discovered and "purged" like the underworld awakening storyline about 1000x faster than the actual situation from the underworld franchise itself.
The Borg? I don't want to worry anyone, but I've seen a van of theirs parked up in Aylesbury...
It's ok, it's just the Bucks Owl Raptor Group. Phew!
The prawns were a eusocial species with specific castes. It was basically an ant colony without it's queen, just a single scholar class individual and his son. It was likely fleeing some disaster.
The queen of an ant colony doesn't rule the colony, she is just the element responsible for reproduction. Coordination between different individuals works largely autonomously through the interactions of pheromones. A colony without a queen wouldn't collapse into anarchy, it would just die out after some time as no new ants are born. (There are also ant species with multiple queens)
Now I want to see the borg vs. A single Xenomorph.
You haven't figured out the Prawns? LOL! Psst. It was a penal ship and their "leader" *was* the cook or janitor. The rest of the crew were killed in a prison uprising and is the reason the ship ditched itself on Earth. Or maybe I read too much into the movie. ;-)
all the prawns that had higher levels of intellect died after some sort of virus picked up on an alien planet they visited on there way to find resources for home then once the ship had detected that something bad had happened like how we rely on certain thing to save us in there case the ship had detected that fuel and life support would fail so it headed for the nearest planet in the Goldilocks zone but in this case it kinda screwed them over because it headed for earth.The queen of this hive wasn't as resilient and hardy as the workers so naturally the queen or whatever generals that were in charge died leaving these semi beings only half alive and only purpose to take orders and survive by whatever means but since they are a colony ship they had the next generation of prawns and presumably the ones who would have higher intellect, as well as have survivors who were of higher intelligence and lead them in the next generation, that's what we see in the movie with our main prawn he survived and that being ones would figure out a plan to get home and then send ships to rescue them,
no
To defend against the borg,surround yourself with rakes.Sideshow Bob taught me well.
I just love how Robot from Lost in Space makes a cameo in these videos
How about Star Wars. They use light swords and slow moving lazars instead of guns or some sort of other projectile weapons? Also they created spaceships capable of traveling at the speed of light but failed too created internet or even TV.
Star Wars makes some sense, however. Lightsabers are technological nonsense, but combined with the Jedi ability to deflect blasts make a lot of sense. When fighting an opponent who can deflect ranged attacks back at you such as a Sith, a melee weapon is significantly more logical.
Blaster weaponry deals significantly more damage and is far more ammo-efficient than ballistic weaponry. Which is why it's used in the SW weaponry. It's also no 'lasers', it's plasma.
Their internet is called the Holonet
The TV functions are integrated onto their spaceships, I think
But I agree, they should stick to Railguns and Cluster Missile Launchers
They have the holonet. Same thing
They use plasma weapons in SW over physical projectile weapons is because of efficiency of the ammo. It's easier to mine gas in space or from gas Giants than it is to mine ore and chemicals from less abundant solid temperate planets. And they have the holonet but it's not something the average individual has it was pretty much only for the rich, government officials, or military officials and ships.
dude star wars was made in the 70s defintly no internet
OMG.... "they never bothered to keep their antivirus up to date".... i couln't stop laughing... I had to stop the video and let it all out... my ribs hurt!!! too funning!!! Thanks, great video!!!
* Scrolls through comments hoping to find discussions about cool (albeit seemingly brain dead) alien sci-fi species
* Finds a bunch of assholes getting needlessly political
The film is literally a social and political statement...but I guess you know better than the guy who actually made the film.
Please continue this series. It's genius
Thanks Mohit, I will do my utmost to get part 3 done asap, and will consider other extensions in the future (this format takes me quite some time to make and refine etc, hopefully the process will speed up as I improve).
No it's not, it's total rubbish.
philajfran That's not how it works.
His points are poorly thought out and seem to be based on HIS ideas of what a perfect society would look like. As the starting point of a discussion their fine but he comes across as if he is all knowing and that annoys me.
Folker46 !
Also, I don't think he comes off as all knowing, as much as disappointed that these stories weren't written better despite the insane amount of potential they hold. Instead they were almost reduced to simple blunderous and almost annoyingly illogical errors that almost make a mockery of these "hyper intelligent civilizations".
I think yeah, that was the big issue. How could they be so smart yet so dumb in a lot of ways. It's him (and me too cause I kinda feel his "arguments") being disappointed, not all knowing.
Sorry to the maker of these videos if I'm way off and speaking for you when I shouldn't be.
Sorry if you dislike me too now also, I'm just trying to think out loud and constructively/critically analyze this cause I really enjoy sci-fi/futurism and I think everything about this stuff is so cool. It's fun to imagine.
For District 9, I have two ideas which might explain quite a few things:
1.: The ship is a generation ship. The 'Prawns' are the leftovers of a once noble race, but long times of space travel - not speedy but conventional - has reduced their former culture and intellect to shreds. Perhaps there was only a limited number of technological devices - like sleep chambers - to keep the 'original' crew alive, or there has been a failure of said technology, awakening large numbers of the Prawns too early. The majority of the Prawns are the grandchildren of the original crew and are thus not educated. CJ is one of the few surviving 'original members' who still know how to control their technology.
2.: This is an escape ship and the majority of the Prawns aren't Workers, Soldiers or the likes - they are, like most of us, white collar workers, who grew up in abundance and luxury. Their society is basically post-apocalyptic, their skills belonging to their homeworld that no longer exists and their survival strategies improvised and derived from fantasy literature in most cases - and not from actual training or experience.
In both cases, it also explains why CJ has so little following - his kind might be seen with distrust, perhaps most of them were even killed by those Prawns who adapted to the horrors of a ship not meant for such a large population and he, himself, keeps his knowledge and intellect for himself because it might put his life in danger. For reference, look at what happened during the beginnings of the Sovied Union or under the Red Khmer.
Actually the Borg according to their lore are supposed to be able to remember all of that as they are the largest computer ever. Which is also how they adapt their shields. They should be the most dangerous but writers happened so moderate lore was fine.
he ignored how each separate phaser was always on it's own frequency and was like "well they learned ONE they should know ALL the frequencies now right?"
The point is that there are a finite number of frequencies. If you can learn one or two colors of the rainbow, you can extrapolate all colors of the rainbow.
PongoXBongo that’s not how numbers work mate, colours don’t have any set limit either, we just classify them into certain categories because they can be difficult to distinguish when close
Yes, it is how they work. You have a finite range from the lowest frequency to the highest. True you can always work in smaller and smaller increments, but the min-max and range are known. We know red and we know blue, slide the knob anywhere in between to get any other color.
Seven of nine can assimilate me anytime 😎
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Assimilate that tight asshole
Assimilate me Mommy UwU
more like, Six of nine.
I am honestly surprised that the Borg ever ignored Data. He is probably the most advanced piece of Federation tech in existence and at least enough information to determine that would have been on EnterpriseDs computer when it was scanned.
You are using scenes with the Borg Queen and Janeway. She is forcing Janeway's cooperation by destroying a cube ship and a sphere ship. 3 or 4 people are not under her full control, so she destroys the entire ship. Later a Klingon drone is able to be out of the Queen's control around the clock, not just when the Klingon drone is regenerating. He takes over the ship and aligns with other ships of emancipated drones against the Queen. The queen has a civil war, insurrection on her hands and must act speedily to regain control.
Prawns shouldn't have been called a hive mind. In the movie it says that they lost their ability to organize and use their technology because their leaders were killed. This makes sense because most people in an intergalactic space ship wouldn't be Enineers and what not. So them not being able to operate the ship makes sense. Also their inability to organize after their leaders were killed is a fact of human history. Africa is a prime example but I fear a wave racists are going to come and troll, but when the leaders of African countries and tribes were killed all organization was shot. African and many other countries who's establishment leaders have been killed experience power vacuums and disorganization which hinders their ability to rise up. Then the Western nations that killed them put in puppet leaders and to bring some form of organization, not for peace but to be able to control the population. If this aspect was added as an explanation for their society it would make for a better movie.
I remember District 9 establishing that it's likely that their alien Queen died on the way to Earth and that that is a big part of the reason why they are so aimless.
I mean Jeri Ryan is perfect so I'm gonna have to go with the borg on that one
It is said space is 3 dimensional plus time but no ship in any of the Star Trek franchises ever goes vertically up or down. Only laterally left to right or forward and backward. Could you imagine how many more civilizations they could meet if someone were to just hit the up or down buttons?
Space has 3 dimentions you said? Kirk's response: hold my beer...
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In the Voyager-Series the Borg found 10.000 Civilisations that are worth the assimilation. Look how many Worlds found in the other Series. Plus even we know, that Galaxys are flat like Dishes. There isnts much above this Level.
@@Belesarius321 galaxies aren't flat, and even if they were, it would't mean that you couldn't have other galaxies "up" or "down"
there no up or down in space, so technically you don't know which direction are the spaceships moving.
Also, they do in actually also nose-dive and fly up, etc in th series.
@@muchanadziko6378 I started watching Star Trek in 1966 and have seen every episode of every series except for Picard and the series before that, (disabled 24 years, plenty of time). I have never seen a ship go vertical up or down.
The borg modulation weakness makes sense though. If your enemies use a weapon that uses 1 frequency you can adapt your shield to it but then if they change back you wouldn't know till you were hit again and yes you could adapt more quickly but then they change to a 3rd frequency and so on it get more difficult. The power requirement and number if field generators required to cover every frequency would be totally impractical.
Theory: perhaps the prawns were those outcast in the alien society they sent the ship out to distance the ship the piolets of said ship were killed and with nothing else the prawns became dependent on humans.
@CM HW indeed it would be.
For the Prawns it sounds more like the ones that live on Earth are probably from a lower class or caste of their species that took over their ship either by overthrowing their leaders or their leaders died out in some unknown manner.
Regarding the 'Prawns' I always viewed it that the majority of the ones we see were born or matured after their arrival on Earth, so they haven't been raised by their full society, hence we see them in state of decline.
Add in something went very wrong on their ship prior to their arrival, and it helps paint the picture that the 'Prawns' we see are not typical of their species, hence the disconnect between their apparent lack of intellect and their advanced technology.
Your point about the Borg do not remember each modulation is wrong.
Star Trek frequences go in nano level making it 1.000.000.000 modulations between 0 and 1, and the same amount between 1 and 2 and so on...
Figuring out the creation function after two hits, is incredable. This would mean they could instantly open any car that is abled to be opened by a device. As our car key devices only have 1000 different after cero numbers.
The functions are extremly complex, in CE most functions use 500-character primenumbers.
As you have no plan of engineering, You shouldn't take this point into your argumentation. Its toooo easily disproved.
Yes there's a second part!!!! get in 👌🤘
When your advanced alien society gets defeated with trojans, Tony Montana- levels of rage and pounds of lead, you *should* be concerned about extinction.
Why is a collective dumber than a bunch of starfleet officers? Because of the group IQ formula.
Any group's IQ is the average for all its members, divided by the number of members in said group.
Really?
Or the sum of the IQ scores divided by the square of the number of members? :)
Jeri Ryan , perfection
With District 9, it was always my “head cannon” that the aliens didn’t actually look like “prawns” originally. That they all were also effected by the same shit that turned the human into a prawn. Then I think most of them just went crazy after changing and being stuck in the ship. That’s why there were few left that didn’t act like animals.