I have been working with Kevin Schanilec's site (Simply The Seen) & the recent youtube interview with Angelo on handling 4th & 5th fetter. I wanted to view your take on this again since I find myself playing mental games in the inquiry. It is easy to fall prey to intellectualizing the process w/o actually healing this false belief behind the fetter. I came back to your channel to see if you had any new discoveries & I see we are working on this inquiry in the same manner. Sometimes, phrasing questions from different positions helps, but healing has not arrived. I contacted him asking if there were any guides & he promptly answered thanking my for my compliments as he said there were none. Thank you for whatever you share.
Thank you for this Channel! I was actually a bit stuck with fetters4-5 and your video helped me. I am using the process on the “ Simply the Seen” website. How can I email you? You have touched on an issue “ self referential quality” which ties into quantum physics and the nature of all appearance. I would like to discuss it more in detail.🙏🏻😎
For your further study, there is a Facebook group named 'Inquiry into the Ten Fetters' run by a lady named Christiane Michelberger. This would be a good place for you to gain more information. Best wishes to you and thank you for your kind comments ♥
The fourth fetter, refers not only to sensual lust of an intimate nature, but sensual desires of our six senses which are sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, and mind. The fourth fetter is also one of The Five Aggregates. The fifth fetter, ill will refers to our negative intentions, and actions towards others. If we are still holding on to anger from the past, and act in a hateful or aggressive way towards others, these reactions will continue to bind us to samsara until we sever those chains.
Many thanks for your comment. You detail what appears to be the classical view of the fetters which is fine . . . but is different to my own interpretation. For example, I would prefer to simply call the fifth fetter 'Aversion' - Which could be aversion to anything at all, not just other people. Or put in a different way 'Right now, something is wrong to me, and it can only be made right by something being removed (as opposed to gained, which would be the fourth fetter)'. This is a subtle attachment left over from breaking the first fetter. Although it is clear (experientially) that the self is empty, there is a subtle clinging left which causes mental suffering. The two fetters break together (fourth and fifth), and this suffering is seen to be illusory. I wish you well ♥
The fetters are simply a path of ten steps in order to realise that nothing inherently real exists. In the fifth fetter, we are examining unwanted persistent emotions that have a subtle belief in a 'self' (I) even though the first fetter has been broken. 'I am depressed because ....', 'I am anxious because ....', 'I am fearful because ....' These are persistent regardless of thoughts (the voice in the head). Thought ... not necessarily 'the voice in the head' but the act of conceptualising something so that it can be thought, spoken or written has to become before anything. The error that is continually pointed out in the fetters is the belief we have that concepts are (or point to) inherently real things. They don't. They are conceptualisations.
I have been working with Kevin Schanilec's site (Simply The Seen) & the recent youtube interview with Angelo on handling 4th & 5th fetter. I wanted to view your take on this again since I find myself playing mental games in the inquiry. It is easy to fall prey to intellectualizing the process w/o actually healing this false belief behind the fetter. I came back to your channel to see if you had any new discoveries & I see we are working on this inquiry in the same manner. Sometimes, phrasing questions from different positions helps, but healing has not arrived. I contacted him asking if there were any guides & he promptly answered thanking my for my compliments as he said there were none. Thank you for whatever you share.
Thank you for this Channel!
I was actually a bit stuck with fetters4-5 and your video helped me. I am using the process on the “ Simply the Seen” website.
How can I email you?
You have touched on an issue “ self referential quality” which ties into quantum physics and the nature of all appearance.
I would like to discuss it more in detail.🙏🏻😎
I was trying to find out more about inquiry into the fetters...really love your UA-cam’s.
For your further study, there is a Facebook group named 'Inquiry into the Ten Fetters' run by a lady named Christiane Michelberger.
This would be a good place for you to gain more information.
Best wishes to you and thank you for your kind comments ♥
Thank you
The fourth fetter, refers not only to sensual lust of an intimate nature, but sensual desires of our six senses which are sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, and mind. The fourth fetter is also one of The Five Aggregates.
The fifth fetter, ill will refers to our negative intentions, and actions towards others. If we are still holding on to anger from the past, and act in a hateful or aggressive way towards others, these reactions will continue to bind us to samsara until we sever those chains.
Many thanks for your comment.
You detail what appears to be the classical view of the fetters which is fine . . . but is different to my own interpretation.
For example, I would prefer to simply call the fifth fetter 'Aversion' - Which could be aversion to anything at all, not just other people.
Or put in a different way 'Right now, something is wrong to me, and it can only be made right by something being removed (as opposed to gained, which would be the fourth fetter)'.
This is a subtle attachment left over from breaking the first fetter. Although it is clear (experientially) that the self is empty, there is a subtle clinging left which causes mental suffering. The two fetters break together (fourth and fifth), and this suffering is seen to be illusory.
I wish you well ♥
Chris I always thought that emotion came before thought but i read that thought comes before emotion is this true inrelation to the fetters?
The fetters are simply a path of ten steps in order to realise that nothing inherently real exists.
In the fifth fetter, we are examining unwanted persistent emotions that have a subtle belief in a 'self' (I) even though the first fetter has been broken.
'I am depressed because ....', 'I am anxious because ....', 'I am fearful because ....'
These are persistent regardless of thoughts (the voice in the head).
Thought ... not necessarily 'the voice in the head' but the act of conceptualising something so that it can be thought, spoken or written has to become before anything.
The error that is continually pointed out in the fetters is the belief we have that concepts are (or point to) inherently real things.
They don't. They are conceptualisations.
Do you have a website?
Hello there Samantha, and thank you for your comment.
No, I do not have a website - Do you have a specific question?