On a Strat? Any. Even if I play the song a half step down out of key. My question though is why drop D sounds good on Les Paul type and Strat type guitars? Edit: good is subjective, but it doesn’t seem to be better one way or the other. See Tom Morello versus Adam Jones.
D sounds so good on Voodoo Chile (the 15-minute blues piece) too. It allows mind blowing bending amplitude on the 2nd fret of the G-string (now a F-string) :D
I have a physics degree, and once in my electronics lab I mentioned that I played guitar, so my professor did a whole lesson explaining the electronics and harmonics of guitars. It was fascinating!
When I switched to Eb on my strat, everything changed for the better and it is actually fun to play when you are not fighting it with standard tuning. I can fly up and down the fretboard and make huge bends with ease. Also stays in tune a helluva lot better when setting up your trem to float. Damn near perfect with dive bombs and pull up whole step. The sound is sweeter and better suited for the strat and single coils. There is a place for standard tuning, but Eb belongs with the strat for me!
@@whyyeseyec obviously they change. You would be playing a Db or a Eb chords, but the thing is you change key in everything, so anything you play, you would play it normally but a half step lower
My Teles have always been in E and my Strat in Eb. But I chalked this up to two things: 1) My Strat neck has a 7.25 inch radius and my teles are 9.5 inches. I just felt the bends were easier to achieve on the vintage fretboard tuned down. And 2) I've always put 12s on my Strat and 11s on my Tele. And Rhett, SRV man, you forgot SRV for the love of God.
12s omg dude you're playing an acoustic guitar at that point lol My strat has 09s, and my heaviest 6string djent stick has 11s on it and even those just destroy my fingies :(
Hey Rhett, I'm a student at Penn State, and I've taken a couple physics classes and studied magnets. I think you may have a point with the magnets interfering with the string movement. While I believe the effect is extremely subtle, you ought to test it by removing a couple of the pickups then measuring sustain. If your hunch is correct, we should expect to see that a strat with just a bridge pickup has slightly more sustain than a strat with just a neck pickup. The neck pickup's magnetic interference should have an easier time affecting the movement of the strings than the bridge's. You could also try testing sustain with different tunings, i.e. different string tensions. I'd love to see the results.
Well. To get totally scientific hear, we would have to make sure the strings get hit with the same force and also the same temperature and humidity, plus the tension on the neck gets slightly reduced, so that has to be adressed as well. And after taking that all into account the effect of the pull on the string is just so extremely subtle that i doubt the effect is that noticable.
I actually think that the biggest change in sustain on guitar is a effect of a position where you pick the sound, and how sensible your pickup is. Ex.: Neck pickup get much more movement but just run out of gain when playing too light. Tele bridge pickups for example are much more sensible than strat bridge pickups. And you can still see some pickups with a huge magnet field have a ton of sustain
I wonder if this explains why players like Malcolm Young removed his middle and neck pickups, as well as why single pickup guitars sound so gnarly? The pull of the magnets on the pickups might be subtle, it may be enough to make a difference. Especially if you're removing two humbuckers.
@Francisco Salvador You may be correct. However, I don't feel that that nullifies my suggestion. I agree that looser strings will have more magnetic drag than would tighter ones, but I think that the advantage looser strings have when being hit with a pick is enough to compensate for any increase in magnetic interference. To the experimental flaw, I didn't lay out an entire plan, I suggested an idea. The experimental idea isn't flawed, but one's execution of it may be.
@@JoaoVictor-ic3ht I agree that pick placement is likely the biggest impact on tone that has been mentioned. I don't totally get your last statement though. Sustain has more to do with output, which is basically pickup sensitivity. Output has a lot to do with how many wraps are on the coil, this increases the magnetic flux, increasing the induced current in the pickup. The type of magnet has a lot to do with output as well, but the sustain from better ability to detect slight string movement is likely more powerful than the effect a more powerful magnet would have on slowing the strings down.
Rhett, Awesome video as usual. Great video about half-step down tuning. We all agree with all the positive vibes about how Eb is an attribute to the dynamics of the strat. We all know Jimi played an upside-down strat due to necessity being a leftie. Not having any guitars on the market at the time. Easy flips for any left-handed player are the SG and the flying Vee, which he favored as well as the strat which certainly wasn't as easy to flip. His decision wasn't by chance that he loved the strat over those. So like others before me, I took a new leftie strat and reversed the strings, the nut, the saddles, and the strap button to experience how Jimi had to deal with his own setup. The first thing that is cool is the tremolo on the low E side and the main thing for us righties is the lack of easy access to the hi E and B upper register of the fretboard. So, a thought about dropped to Eb would be, bending would be easier for Jimi to bend notes on the higher frets which are a bit restricted due to the bout of the body in the upper register. It is just another application to consider when trying to figure out Jimi's technique. Thank you, Jodi Anna
I mean, that totally depends on string gauge and the particular guitar. This is why they make different sizes. And even if it's not "optimal", who cares? It's good to know what could give your sound an edge though
I have a gibson flying v tuned one step down and sounds killer... I have also played a friend's les paul, tuned exactly the same and it sounds massive... I think it's subjective
I wouldn’t say he would disagree about it, but there’s a lot of different things that go into making the decision to tune down a half step. I don’t think Roger ever thought of it.
I saw an interview with Robin Trower where he explained his reasons for E flat = He said he wanted to use very heavy gauge strings and that E flat reduced the string tension to a degree where he could manage large bends - 2 step, even 2 and 1/2 step. within destroying his fingertips. He was of the opinion that heavy strings and higher action produce a better tone.
I definitely agree about higher action producing better tone. I ought to try heavier strings. It was easier when I was younger and could play 4 hours a day. Hard to build up the strength now.
Imo, higher action just means the string bends more sharp when fretting, and makes me clumsier to play properly. Too low of an action gives that string buzz tho, but too high is just hard to play. I feel like the lowest action that doesn't buzz at all is the sweet spot. Some people love a super low action at the expense of some fret buzz but for me the sweet spot is just high enough to not get buzz but be easy to play. Struggling to play makes you sound worse.
Hm, I'm pretty sure, that in your "three magnetic fields" theory is wrong, because when it comes to energy, it's actually the opposite: string with higher tension has a higher energy on same note, so it's more resistant then for any blocking force.
Agreed. There's obviously a point of optimal tension: too much and you aren't going to introduce enough vibration; too little and it will not spring back. I'd doubt this is that exacting point... doubly so because it would change based on string gauges, and there's no way they all played the same string tension.
that's right, Rhett is wrong about that: the lower you tune a string, the easier the magnet can pull it. also: the lower the tension, the wider a string swings (with the same energy plucking it), so it comes ever nearer to the pickup and gets pulled easier. The only way to reduce string pull: put the bass side of the pickups as far away from the strings as possible.
I think Rhett may be on to something. The strings may be affected by magnetism a little- so less ring or sustain. The back snd forth movement in a pickup coil is how the energy is transferred to the coil . Vibration over the magnets energize the windings. Whether or not someone likes it better is subjective.
You are completely right and I’m personally sick and tired of these youtuber throwing inaccurate opinions to the uneducated ones, that may end up believing them.
@@daves_not_here_mannn agree les Paul's sound great tuned down but I actually hate strays tuned to eb, the bouncy sound gets on my nerves most of the time
I also always played Gibson’s half step. I play in standard atm because after 20 years of playing I’m finally taking lessons haha, but I will definitely go back to half step
Beware! It's possible that that when you are used to a type of sound, when you change it, you percieve it as sounding better because of the "fresh" sound...brain gets bored of the same sound always and any change will amuse it....
Agreed. Interestingly, the opposite can also be true. When you're so used to something; you may dislike anything that's different to it because it's unfamiliar and not what you're used to.
I love this episode! I've been playing since forever (I'm 72) yet have NEVER tried tuning my Strat's down a 1/2 step. I've been aware that Hendrix did this but not all the other cats you mentioned. I'll have to try it just for giggles if for no other reason. Thanks & Cheers!!
@@starlightsongs I don't think so, I remember reading somewhere saying it was a strat into a cranked bassman. One of the greatest guitar tones of all time imo
I can confirm that many swing, jazz, and function accompanying players of the 40s, 50s, and 60s did tune down a half-step to make life easier working with horns
Thanks for the video Rhett. I always enjoy your stuff. I wanted to throw something in the conversation. You mentioned how you think Hendrix stayed a half step down because of his big band background. I think you nailed it and it makes perfect sense. Another thing I learned a few years ago was how Hendrix used varying string gauges with heavier, B, D, high E, and lighter low E, A and G strings. (010, .013, .015, .026, .032, .038). It only works when you're turned down a half step as well After I tried this it BLEW MY MIND!! You instantly sound more like Hendrix. Not only that but sonically it changes the entire sound of the guitar. Best way I can describe it is that it makes your paint brush bigger. Makes simple cords have more harmony. Keep posting cool stuff dude. Thanks!
The Hendrix string gauges were a custom gauge set designed for Jimi by Roger Mayer in order to balance the drastically altered string tension of playing an upside-down neck. Roger Mayer speaks to Guitar World regarding why he put together these custom gauges for Jimi. ...Interesting read.
I’m a “strat guy” and only tried Eb after watching an episode of That Pedal Show where the talked about it. I liked the tone, but the real difference for me was it fit so much better in my vocal range. Singing was so much more comfortable, now my strat lives in Eb.
This happened to me too and I didn't convince my band to follow me but it's amazing how much more naturally it fit for me too I went from scared to sing to feeling like my voice could help add to what my guitar was doing.
Michael Fowler Yeah, I get the whole band not wanting to change keys, so I just leave my strat in Eb and play everything one fret up the neck. They like the tone so 🤷♂️
@@nickburmanmusic *I changed for a different reason... My reasoning was is that you automatically sound different when playing the normal shapes you're use to playing...
Man i've never really noticed my strat sounding "better" when tuned down, but i'm gonna tune to Eb for a few weeks to test this out and really try to pay attention to the general sound. Great video as always.
I have 3 S alikes. one looks like the Woodstock axe. I've kept it in Eb for nearly 20 years. It sounds fatter than the others so the ideal RT or SRV guit.
One thing that you didn't mention is that most if not all of the artists you mentioned used thicker strings. SRV tuned down to Eb, which I always thought was to accommodate the bridge cables he used for guitar strings. Also, old players like Hendrix and Beck did not have access to the variety of strings materials, tensions and so forth that we have today. I remember when I started back in the 70s that there were a couple of rows of guitar strings at best behind the counter. Now days, there are rows and rows of string choices in some stores.
Until SRV got an endorsement and free strings from GHS he used Black Diamond. If you have never used them you sre in for a treat. get a set. I use 11's but they have the 13's he used . You can hear the Stevie tone in them and I'm only talking Stratocasters here. I like them, though they seem to be hard to get the intonation right. To me anyway.
You're not crazy. I played my strat a ton in Eb, but not so much when I tuned it back up to E standard. Just didn't sound right. Which reminds me, I should tune it back to Eb. Thanks Rhett!
The horn point is really interesting, and it makes sense that a non-jazz player like the young Jimi might do that. When I first starting playing with a jazz workshop a few years ago, I was kvetching to the leader (who is also a guitar player) about having to play in all these annoying keys to accommodate the horn players. I said: "Why don't jazz guitarists just tune down a half step so they can play all these horn tunes in comfortable keys?" He just looked at me like I was crazy. Like: it's *supposed* to be hard! But of course the horn players all think *they're* playing in comfortable keys like C and G.
@@mikeokeefe9396 E flat for sax...B flat for Trumpets..the C melody or soprano sax is one of the only horns that works well with a standard guitar tuning unless you use a capo or bar everything
PS to partially answer my own question, I did some poking around online and found an interesting answer: when you play in flat keys on a guitar in standard tuning, you can use the open strings to get interesting and useful chord extensions. Never thought of that.
Welcome to the world of different size instruments and transposing and sadistic composers. And stupid musicians loving problems, instead of solving them. You should propose them, to stop using equal temperament, and start playing the chords as they were intended. You can play ALL consonant chords fully consonant, why not? If you switch to fretless it is easier. In short, tell them you want different tuning and be amazed by their response. Are you crazy? Fully consonant? What? We only play dissonant, who cares?
4:45 the reason all the other guitar players tuned down like Hendrix did is because they were either copying Hendrix or copying the guy copying Hendrix.
I don't doubt Hendrix is the reason for causing other musicians to down tune though I think a large part might just be that it's easier to play when downtuned, which is generally prefered especially for long gigs.
girl who dislikes others opinions Sure that is probably a reason too. I don‘t know of other guitarists who did it before him. I am sure there were some. But after Hendrix most people who tuned down a half or whole step were copying Hendrix. I would love to know why Hendrix did it and how deliberate it truly was on his part.
Yeah, I can't help but think that if Jimi had never tuned down then none of the other guy's would have either. No evidence for thinking that but I have a very strong suspicion that it's true.
It happened to me not so long ago...the equilibrium between spring and string tension is pretty narrow in strats, and affects the overall setup and action. While trying 0.10-0.46 gauge strings, I realized that everything worked better a full step down, and that opened a new spectrum of tones to me. It was like a revelation...
I went to an open mic a few years ago and ended up playing someone's acoustic, tuned down to e-flat. Being a vocalist also, I was amazed how much easier it was to sing songs i previously struggled to hit the high notes on. I went home and tuned all my instruments to e-flat. I had never previously been able to sing Bob Seger stuff well, but now i could power it through. I have heard that a lot of recordings are recorded in e-flat and then sped up so they sound like E tuning. John Lennon's I'm Only Sleeping is played in an e-flat tuning. I have also found that it has helped my ears. Playing all those flats and sharps made my ears sharper to half steps. In his instructional DVD, Roger McGuinn states that he tunes down to E-flat on his 12 strings, to lower the neck tension a bit and make it easier to play.
Rhett, thank you for explaining this in terms that actually make sense. The 25.5 inch scale sounds better when tuned down half a step because of the way the harmonics are spread around on the neck. That makes sense and the differences is noticeable. I’m glad your explanation was more in depth than “it just sounds better” while taking a long time to say it like most people would have done. Great job! Thanks again.
FYI-If you watch Rig Run Down with Robin Trower, I think it is the one with the Premier Guitar guy, Sorry I forgot his name, Trower says he now tunes down 1 full step as he uses, either 11-12 Guage strings. As far as the other guys who knows. I wonder why Clapton and a bunch others do not. I have always been an A440 guy. Love strats and les pauls. What ever works for you- who cares.Good Video.
@@RhettShull I have to say that as a reformed electrical engineering student (I dropped out to repair and restore vintage analog monosynths and Fender Rhodes pianos) this was one of the most interesting videos of yours for me to watch. I'm pretty certain of what I think I know about physics, but I also know enough to realize that lots of phenomena are counterintuitive and it's really easy to hold a conceptual idea of something that stands up to plausible reasoning but still happens to be dead wrong. You make a number of assumptions that are informed by your experience, and I for one am really curious to know which assumptions have merit and which ones are more questionable. The UA-cam channel Veritasium is great at exploring these non-intuitive quirks that fall out of the laws of physics. Maybe you and Derek could collaborate on some content; the physics of guitar tone??? I can't think of two people better equipped to tackle that topic. There's elasticity, harmonic motion, resonance, and magnetic field interaction. You guys can have a field day. The $64,000 question: can Derek play guitar at all? :-)
@@jfreedner Read Zollner "Physics of the Electric Guitar", now translated from German to English. Based on measurements on real guitars. Free download at GITEC website.
Even D tuning works well for Strats too. I’ve always used heavier strings for a Strat too, even with bands that end up being easier to tune standard with I always used at least 11s on them. For some reason Strats just seem to work with one gauge bigger than you usually use.
Teles, Strats and Jazzmasters were initially designed for heavier-gauge flatwound strings, which were THE string-type option in the '50s and early '60s, so your comment makes a lot of sense.
There was an interview with John Entwistle, who jammed with Hendrix, and basically said Jimi didn't know his guitar was in Eb; his guitar tech set them to that so he'd break fewer strings.
Hendrix knew his theory really well. I'd be surprised if Jimi didn't know he was in Eb. On the Electric Ladyland documentary Eddie Kramer brings up how hendrix preffered to play in Eb because it was easier to sing with.
@@KazKasozi he might not have noticed it at first. You don't always think about these things when you're playing. Also his tech probably tuned down Noel's bass as well.
The legendary Buck Owens and Don Rich were tuning to E flat (on their Tele's) in '66 and then modulating. Watch clips of The Buck Owens Show for awesome examples.
Good advise. You explained about many things I take for granted. I'll definitely try Eb tuning. Steve Vai and of course Stevie Ray Vaughn experimented with down tuning. I heard Stevie tuned down to D and played with 13 gauge strings.
I think it's the opposite with the string tension and the magnets.The higher the string tension is, the more "resistant" the string is against the magnetic field. And to really compare the two tunings you would need to play the riffs in the same key (so you would need to put a capo on the first fret in Eb-Tuning). But besides that, awesome video, I love my strat in Eb too!
You're right about the first statement, but about the second... you must not only take into account the string tension differences between tunings, but also tension differences on a same string across the fretboard (closer to the 12th fret = more loose). There is a little (but perceptible) difference in string tension between playing a riff on E standard and the same riff in the same key on Eb standard, just 1 fret higher (with or without capo), and it's even wider if open strings are used in the first case, as tension at the nut in E standard is not the same as the 1st fret on Eb standard. So, comparing both things as you recommend is, at best, pointless (and impossible, at worst).
Each instrument/tuning likely has a "sweet spot", a goldilocks zone of scale/string gauges/tuning, based on how we perceive things. That's why baritone guitars have longer scale and thicker strings, basses - even more so. So strat likely has its true sweet spot a tad lower than traditional guitars that came before it (Gibson being a traditional instrument builder). But standard tuning is a stickier tradition than scale length. It's easier to market a new electric guitar than some unheard of Eb instrument. So there we are. It's really neat how many particular quirks a traditional strat has, which have been exploited by players. Almost makes me want to get a strat. Almost :)
11:24 I would say they sound great in both tunings. Don’t forget that David Gilmour, John Mayer, and John Frusciante all have wonderful tone and tune to standard.
Yes, indeed. There's more to great tone than tuning, but if it opens up new sonic territory, so much the better! Gilmour had specific pickup heights (or rather, distances between strings and pole pieces), and favored specific gauge strings, in addition to custom pickup wiring, so any combination of these things, with or without tuning down, can achieve awesome tones :)
@John Dew The stock pickups in my Gilmour Tribute Strat copy aren't bad, but I've bought a replacement set to install to bring it more in line with his, around the time of Animals up to The Wall.
I used to do the same thing with my Epiphone Les Paul custom. I had it as low as drop a but as long as you use thicker strings it should be fine. Intonation may be a problem depending on how low and the string gauge. I used 56-13 gauge
Oh hey Matt I'm subscribed to you! Cool to see you watching Rhett's stuff too! Your playing and what you do with your tone is absolutely a Strat players dream!
Also, in case it wasn't mentioned elsewhere, Ace Frehley is a Les Paul player that tunes down to Eb. All the classic Kiss songs were tuned down half-step.
"... I like Strats tuned down to Eb..." That's what I learned from this video, and the idea I already had. Not because they unquestionably sound better. Maybe because JH and others sometimes used that tuning. To play with saxes, or because the singer asks to low the tuning, OK. I can think of other reasons that were lightly mentioned: with 9s and the action I like, it fret buses. So I go for 10s. Now they are harder to play, especially bending. I could go for 9.5s or Eb. In short scale guitars (like Gibsons), that can work the same way. All with a bit less tension.
He played a weird string set with real heavy strings on the top, he almost had to tune down because a 13 gauge E-string will fuck your fingers up regardless
I've never really liked the feel of my strat until I recently fitted a top loading hardtail bridge in place of the two point trem. I've had the thing 20 years and now, finally it feels incredible to play. I thing a big part of that is that im not fighting the tension of the springs anymore. Its possible that tuning down has a similar effect. Love your videos
They sound way better!!! You could also put Van Halen in that group too. Strat with a humbucker. SRV, Duarte. Note that Duarte and Trower now play in D and Trower in particular sounds huge these days. Worth checking out his more recent stuff, still putting out stuff in his 70's. Pretty cool.
Chris totally tears it up on Strat. Henry from Los Lonely Boys and Kenny Wayne Shepherd. And I was kinda surprised he left out SRV while name dropping a few in that category.
I've been playing my '68 Strat in my bar band (just me, bass player, and drummer, and all of us sing) forever. We've been in Eb the whole time. My Strat sounds way better than when tuned to E (as it is when I jam with friends or record with local musicians). Plus tuning down a half step helps keep us from straining our voices on vocals. Great video!
Hi Rhett, your vids are always great but this one stood out for me. I never understood why strats were so popular until I got into Eb tuning around the time I got into SRV. You really explained why this makes sense, especially with the 3 pickup magnet idea. I've never gone back, and also being a gigging singer + guitarist it really helped me get through those crazy night after night tours vocally. Love your work and playing. Found you through Rick Beato. Best of luck for 2022 and looking forward to more videos. Much appreciation from Scotland, UK.
I’m a songwriter, and my “humming” for ideas are typically around the key of Eb because of my vocal range. When I started to tune down, I felt more connected with the guitar. I know sounds weird but that’s just how I felt haha. In addition to the fact that it was easy to play overall (not just bends) I sensed a more “lush” quality from my chords. This characteristic accentuate when I use some kind of modulation effect like a chorus. It’s good to know there is some science behind. Guitar: G&L Fallout (tribute series)
My older brother, who's a singer & guitarist like me, used to scoff at me for tuning down a half step. But once he tried it he couldn't go back to 440. If you sing a lot in your higher register, that little half step makes a huge diff over the course of a night.
What would be a better “scientific” test would be if you played an A chord whilst the guitar was tuned to standard, then played an A when it’s tuned down (I mean an actual A, not just the A shape which would be an Ab) then do a blind test of the sound to see if you notice a difference. What I tend to find is that most of my original riffs sound better when in Eb compared to standard, and that’s probably because a riff played half a step down will sound dirtier.
Won't work the same because it's not an open chord at that point. Fretted chords will have a slightly different tone because of all the strings coming in contact with the frets, barred finger potentially sharpening the middle notes, the open strings will resonate a little longer (minutely), and there's less string length involved so it will shift to more fundamental tones and less overtones
Daniel Brunner true, which is why scientific was in quotes. Though I didn’t specify an open A chord, and you could use a barre chord for both. I still think it would be an interesting experiment. What I was pointing out was that when he played that riff in standard, then played the riff in Eb, he actually played different notes, so it would sound different because the riff is tonally half a step lower.
Yeah exactly, I think he means it in the way that there's less energy required to make it output the peak signal (though the peak signal is actually a bit quieter)
I think that both strats and teles sound and feel better tuned a half step down. I believe this is mostly to do with the scale length of the guitars. They are notoriously a little bit longer than Gibsons. It’s the reason Billie Joe Armstrong from Green Day plays almost all of their older stuff on fenders (or fender copies) and plays their newer stuff on gibsons. Their older stuff was tuned to E flat, and their newer stuff is tuned to standard. It allows the tension to feel the same on each instrument, without having to use different string gauges.
I tuned my SG to B standard. My friend often plays a schecter tuned to A standard... Black metal will do that too ya! 🤣 I tune my 4 string bass to b standard with 105-45 strings. Works great for rock and metal.
One of my absolute favorite electric guitar tones is the one Maddison Cunningham gets...If I'm not mistaken she detunes her Fender Jazzmaster to C standard and puts it through a vintage Gibson Falcon (GA-19RVT)...She's able to get a pretty wide range of tones that way, all the way from rich, dark and haunting to very open, bluesy and raw...I also think she's a fabulous guitar player... Thanks for this vid, very informative and interesting...
Is it possible you have overlooked an important point. Back in the day, string manufacturers did not make the lighter gauge strings. (Nine gauge) Bending 10 gauge strings is much harder with standard tuning. Stepping it down makes it easier bend.
I havent tried Eb on my strat yet but ive come to love using Eb tuning on my Fender Acoustic. It feels and sounds more balanced to me. Im going to try it on my strat. I think also the lower darker tuning works so well with a strat in theory is also due to how bright the single coils sound. Its like that microphone technique of using brighter mics on darker tones and vise versa, it creates more balance
Looser strings move in a larger pattern than tight strings. Magnetic pickups work by the motion of the steel strings disturbing the magnetic field. The larger the motion of the string, the higher the voltage produced by the pickup. Higher voltage produces better sustain and increases natural distortion. By the same token, the tone can also be effected by the right string gauge choice. Thicker strings also produce higher voltages, but also require more tension to reach standard tuning than thinner strings. High tension decreases the size of the vibration pattern, thereby lowering peak voltage. It's a trade off. BUT, fatter strings are better for drop-tuning, because they will retain a reasonable playing tension even as much as three steps down. It's a balancing act for sure. SRV used very heavy strings and tuned down one full step in order to create that unique, rich, full sound from his Strat. Some other players opted for extremely thin strings and standard tuning, to achieve bolder tone, but this requires the use of stronger pickups. A set of 8-38 gauge strings require an average of 8lbs less tension per string than 9-42s.
@@HARTYNMUGHES sorry, but slash, even according to himself, has not progressed guitar, much less music, in any significant way. he plays cliched licks and riffs very well, but there's very little originality. don't get me wrong, he sounds good to an average person, but he's not doing anything special and he himself will admit that. he plays a ton of uninspired, recycled licks (e.g., sweet child of mine was literally a string-skipping exercise he got from a book), but he doesn't care, he just loves playing guitar. which is totally respectable - he is a very genuine and likable person, but don't claim he has advanced music or guitar in any meaningful sense. he knows this and has mentioned it in interviews, so to claim him the beginning and end of guitar, oof. there are thousands of players who have had a much larger impact
pielily I’m sure you’ll eventually realise you just waisted your time writing this reply! lol Go on, reread what the guy you are replying to actually said, I’ll wait. Anyway, Slash inspired a generation to pick up the guitar and that’s important. If what he plays hasn’t progressed guitar playing, it’s fine where it is because if doesn’t get much better than that.
"Les Pauls sound like a slinky muddy mess." doesn't it depend on what gauge your playing? I could probably tune to C on a Les Paul or any Gibson and it'll sound great if I just play with thicker strings right?
Of course. A set of 11-54 strings should make it possible to get a Les Paul down to C. There are a lot of metal bands playing at least in Drop C with LP style guitars. I wouldn't go below C on a LP no matter how thick the set of strings is, though. The shorter scale length is a handicap.
I have 3 Les Paul with different gauges and different tuning, but they all were in a moment in Eb before i decided wich one sounds better with different tuning, and I agree they all sound weird tuned that way
Hey Rhett, I love that you experiment with alternate tunings to achieve your desired tone. And starting with the Strat makes a lot of sense to me. In some ways this touches on your slide and open tuning videos, which inspire me personally. Going from there I identify myself as a Telecaster player, but I have always gravitated towards 3 pickup Teles, just to find a similar ground or maybe even tone with the Stratocaster. I have a 2006 American Deluxe Strat which I love. One huge difference between Strats and Teles of course is the bridge plate on the Telecaster which you won't find on a Stratocaster. And given that their musical uses are generally pretty different, but not exclusive, they are clearly distinctly different tools. I also appreciate your comments on scale length and string tension impacts. I started playing around with that when I "built" my own Baritone Telecaster and then watched your video on Open D tuning. No 'Plan B'? . . . Way to be you! Of course it's all fun and games. . . Thanks!
I really like your comments at the end, just generally about everyone should be trying different guitars to what they're used to, that resonates with me strongly right now, I've been playing almost exclusively strats for about 10 years, and realized I've got this collection of guitars that are all the same, so now I'm going out of my way to play things like Les Pauls and SGs, to find something I really click with, and hopefully the next addition to my collection will be completely different to what I already have
I was in the same boat as you are in, I just bought myself a gretsch jet, not quite a les paul but close. Still has some fender feel out of it as it has a bit more jangle than regular humbucker would. Also been loving SGs lately just weird to get comfy with but the tones are awesome
Right? My god that tone is shite🤣can you hear anything? No articulation at all, I used to sound like that back in the 70s when I was 13 and hit the amp with a maestro fuzz box🤣🤣🤣fing horrible🤣
I have my doubts about one specific part of the Hendrix Eb narrative, that is tuning down for jazz bands. You can easily get away with E standard guitar in a jazz context as it's unlikely you'll want to play full 5 or 6 string chords and even less likely you'll want to play cowboy chords. There might be a benefit with open string pedal tones, but generally guitars play sparsely in jazz bands as keys / bass occupy a ton of sonic territory just by themselves. I think the string tension narrative is more compelling as I believe the string gauges were generally heavier back then. Ernie Balls were slinky because most string sets were 12+ with wound Gs.
They play a number of other guitars other than Les Pauls live. Slash doesn't even play them exclusively during the live sets. It did sound great for sure.
Short For A Stormtrooper Big For Your Mom jajaja thanks!! Actually had to wait about 2 minutes, until Rhett said that les pauls don’t sound good half step down!
Surely when tuning further to D and putting heavier strings on will just make it feel and sound like E b or even E standard if the strings are heavy enough
Glad you finally tried and loved it. I came to this same conclusion some time ago but not without some resistance to those who first suggested it. Thanks for spreading the word. PS it’s easier to sing in Eb too.
I disagree with the Gibson statement. I usually tune them down 3 steps (to C# Standard) for the Sabbath sound. They certainly sound dark and you need to know how to control that in a mix, but they are fantastic for oldschool heavy tones. Black Sabbath, Soundgarden, Down, Metallica, Motörhead, Thin Lizzy... there is a very long list of bands who tuned down their Gibsons.
What's weird is that I play SRV tunes on an SG, use 11's, and tune down to Eb. Some people might look at me as if I committed a war crime but it works for me. 😃
Eric Johnson tunes to standard, I can't really recall any 1/2 step down tuning except maybe some Hendrix covers. Most people including Hendrix that tune down 1/2 step are likely doing so to match their voice range not for feel or sound.. Robin trower is an exception which tunes to d tuning for feel. It's not as common I feel today because fret board radius have flattened out and fighting bending tension on 7.25 radius with high action to keep from fretting out and having too much tension on bends from high action and not as much horn sections in arrangements which use the standard Bflat pitch.
It’s not as common today cause half the music world graduated past e flat long ago. Now there’s metal songs in like drop f # blues on baritone guitars tuned to b or b flat is becoming a more popular thing (which I personally love the idea of and would love to have a baritone so I could try it) baritones are also getting used for slide a lot more now. But I would somewhat agree with what you said. I think a lot of it was vocal range but I’m pretty sure there was some reasons for feel going on.
He’s running 11s strings on eb guitars, is the string gauge related to the scale length? So 9s in standard tuning on a strat, but 10s on a les Paul for example for similar resonance?
I just picked up my first strat, and have alot if problems keeping it in tune, and when i put new strings on. It becomes worse, keeping tremolo from wanting to keep rising up higher and higher when i keep trying to keep it in tune. Qhats up ? And is it me , but do stratocaster's just have next no resistance in the strings when bending, i meaning it feels like i am playing with spaghetti. I keep over powering all the notes. I think its bc of playing nothing but my acoustic for the last 3 yrs . And i use 12's on it, and the fender came with 9's and i put 10's on it. But no difference
@@Jobotubular he made flying sound strat-like, dont trust me, go see jolly dagger live clip in colours, not my favorite axeman, thats blackmore, but jimi really done some things.insane.
@@Jobotubular he made flying sound strat-like, dont trust me, go see jolly dagger live clip in colours, not my favorite axeman, thats blackmore, but jimi really done some things.insane.
What about a 24" scale Strat in standard tuning? (24" is pretty close to a capo on the first fret). I love mine tuned down and then capoed. Mustang style.
Well ok... I'll give it a shot. I'm a Tele guy who just got his first Strat... we are becoming good friends I like what you said about single pickup guitars. Example: I was given a single pup Harmony Rocket... I messed with it... it had promise, but it was hard to keep in tune and there wasn't sustain. In my junk I had a Tune-O-Matic bridge. Remo ed the wooden one, made a mount to the arch-top curve, mounted the bridge... the sting spacing was off... out my jeweler's saw, I cut new grooves... voila.... perfect. I had just bought an expensive set of tuners for an acoustic I had.... I figure I'd "try" them out. The tuners made a huge difference too. I did all this before I knew much about guitars... but in a sense, was a techno geek. I could figure shit out. This guitar is an amazing Blues guitar... it does that clean scream so well. I came across a two pickup model for a great price. Psyched... off to the workshop I went, did the same mods. It was really disappointing... plugged into the same rig. What you said about less magnetic force makes sense... the single just rang like a bell in comparison... I'm a Tele guy who just got his first Strat... we are becoming friends... I'll give Eb a go... Also try D... very curious... Love your vids....
One of the greatest Strat albums ever recorded is Robin Trowers' "Bridge Of Sighs" it's in standard tuning. The whole thing. It's all about your headspace man! The longer his career went the lower his choice of tunings. But....none of his other works (...and I love most of them) will ever eclipse "Bridge Of Sighs"! Though I totally get what Rhett is saying here!
Hey Rhett, awesome video as always. Two thoughts: 1) Do you think string gauge plays a role here? Eb allows for a heavier gauge with the same tension. Maybe the Strat likes heavier strings. The players you mention (I think?) all use 10s or 11s and SRV famously used 12s and 13s. 2) What do you think about creating a 'best of both worlds' situation by tuning a Strat to Eb and then raising the pitch a half step with a pitch shift pedal like the Digitech whammy? For the garden variety home player who doesn’t want to spend half their playing time tuning up and down. Keep it up!
Any pitch shifting needs to be played loud enough to where I don't hear the guitar acoustically or play through headphones or everything sounds disorienting due to the different pitches.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Whats your favorite song to play in Eb?
Pride and joy 👌
@@nobetashere5608 agreed
Dance The Night Away by Van Halen
On a Strat? Any. Even if I play the song a half step down out of key. My question though is why drop D sounds good on Les Paul type and Strat type guitars? Edit: good is subjective, but it doesn’t seem to be better one way or the other. See Tom Morello versus Adam Jones.
Drive me mad-tyler Bryant and the shakedown
Eb sounds great for strats agreed
Damn rick youre one of the first commentors, you are really good friends huh
if the master say it i should give it a try on my splatter!
@@TheCrazymicki yeah!
D sounds so good on Voodoo Chile (the 15-minute blues piece) too. It allows mind blowing bending amplitude on the 2nd fret of the G-string (now a F-string) :D
Papa Beato!
I've always said that Eb tuning is just standard tuning with sunglasses on.
Andrew Cantrell Yes but if your sunglasses fall off in the middle of a tune will the audience notice the change in pitch?
😎
Too cool
@@rusty4150 Probably not as they'll be distracted by your sunglasses falling off. Perfect really.
Those are some wise words!
Eb is cool but D# is where its at.
Sharp minor flat diminished arpagieted
🤣👍
TheAutisticGuitarist BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Im naturally a D## guy!
C### is where its at
I have a physics degree, and once in my electronics lab I mentioned that I played guitar, so my professor did a whole lesson explaining the electronics and harmonics of guitars. It was fascinating!
That’s a cool professor 😂. It’s cool you learned something new.
What do you have to comment about his hunch on whether or not the number of pickups affects the sustain of the instrument?
What was one thing that stood out?
the professor heard "guitar" and first thing entering his mind was, "aaaaaw yeah, lets do some oscillating strings physics"
I think when it's tuned down to E flat, it sounds a little lower.
Because it's is tuned down a half step. It obviously sounds lower
@@Konrad-Konnor Yeah, that's the joke. That's the only difference I can hear.
Rick haha ok
@Rach Man Sometimes my jokes fall a little ...
Rick 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Man really forgot to mention SRV in the beginning
And David Gilmour
I said the same thing
Especially considering David’s strat was the most expensive guitar ever sold
Yes but he said most famous strat players in general
Yeah, when I think of Eb Standard, the first three names that come to mind are Hendrix, Van Halen and Vaughan.
I really got into Eb because of Jerry Cantrell, criminally underrated!
Yasss Jerry is one of my favs
Yup, Eb and drop Db are killer.
A riff master, and he had a great voice
Yooooo same
He's the reason I even started tuning down in the first place. Dude is an absolute God and not enough people realize it.
When I switched to Eb on my strat, everything changed for the better and it is actually fun to play when you are not fighting it with standard tuning. I can fly up and down the fretboard and make huge bends with ease. Also stays in tune a helluva lot better when setting up your trem to float. Damn near perfect with dive bombs and pull up whole step. The sound is sweeter and better suited for the strat and single coils. There is a place for standard tuning, but Eb belongs with the strat for me!
Yellow Raven
One day you'll realize that Eb is just the poor man's D#
When tuning a 1/2 step down, does that change the chord fingering or just play a D or E shape as always when in Eb?
@@whyyeseyec obviously they change. You would be playing a Db or a Eb chords, but the thing is you change key in everything, so anything you play, you would play it normally but a half step lower
Just put my strat in Eb tuning and it’s actually so much more fun to play. I didn’t want to put it down, but have to go to work lol
Rhett: "Les Pauls tuned to Eb sound muddy."
Slash: *crying*
im crying in jimmy paige
Man-spy Mc-spy-man Jimmy Page used standard, drop d and dadgad.
*Crying in Ace Frehley*
Eb sounded fine for Ace Frehley.
@@ferox965 more than fine! Ace rocks, man!
My Teles have always been in E and my Strat in Eb. But I chalked this up to two things: 1) My Strat neck has a 7.25 inch radius and my teles are 9.5 inches. I just felt the bends were easier to achieve on the vintage fretboard tuned down. And 2) I've always put 12s on my Strat and 11s on my Tele.
And Rhett, SRV man, you forgot SRV for the love of God.
Can’t tell if the SVR part is a pun or not
I was about to leave a comment about the fretboard radius
My tele sounds great when tuned down. I think it's the change in sound based on key. The song sounds like a new one. Just my opinion.
12s omg dude you're playing an acoustic guitar at that point lol
My strat has 09s, and my heaviest 6string djent stick has 11s on it and even those just destroy my fingies :(
When I hear "strat in Eb" I hear Pride and Joy in my head immediately..
Hey Rhett, I'm a student at Penn State, and I've taken a couple physics classes and studied magnets. I think you may have a point with the magnets interfering with the string movement. While I believe the effect is extremely subtle, you ought to test it by removing a couple of the pickups then measuring sustain. If your hunch is correct, we should expect to see that a strat with just a bridge pickup has slightly more sustain than a strat with just a neck pickup. The neck pickup's magnetic interference should have an easier time affecting the movement of the strings than the bridge's. You could also try testing sustain with different tunings, i.e. different string tensions. I'd love to see the results.
Well. To get totally scientific hear, we would have to make sure the strings get hit with the same force and also the same temperature and humidity, plus the tension on the neck gets slightly reduced, so that has to be adressed as well. And after taking that all into account the effect of the pull on the string is just so extremely subtle that i doubt the effect is that noticable.
I actually think that the biggest change in sustain on guitar is a effect of a position where you pick the sound, and how sensible your pickup is. Ex.: Neck pickup get much more movement but just run out of gain when playing too light. Tele bridge pickups for example are much more sensible than strat bridge pickups. And you can still see some pickups with a huge magnet field have a ton of sustain
I wonder if this explains why players like Malcolm Young removed his middle and neck pickups, as well as why single pickup guitars sound so gnarly? The pull of the magnets on the pickups might be subtle, it may be enough to make a difference. Especially if you're removing two humbuckers.
@Francisco Salvador You may be correct. However, I don't feel that that nullifies my suggestion. I agree that looser strings will have more magnetic drag than would tighter ones, but I think that the advantage looser strings have when being hit with a pick is enough to compensate for any increase in magnetic interference. To the experimental flaw, I didn't lay out an entire plan, I suggested an idea. The experimental idea isn't flawed, but one's execution of it may be.
@@JoaoVictor-ic3ht I agree that pick placement is likely the biggest impact on tone that has been mentioned. I don't totally get your last statement though. Sustain has more to do with output, which is basically pickup sensitivity. Output has a lot to do with how many wraps are on the coil, this increases the magnetic flux, increasing the induced current in the pickup. The type of magnet has a lot to do with output as well, but the sustain from better ability to detect slight string movement is likely more powerful than the effect a more powerful magnet would have on slowing the strings down.
Rhett, Awesome video as usual. Great video about half-step down tuning. We all agree with all the positive vibes about how Eb is an attribute to the dynamics of the strat. We all know Jimi played an upside-down strat due to necessity being a leftie. Not having any guitars on the market at the time. Easy flips for any left-handed player are the SG and the flying Vee, which he favored as well as the strat which certainly wasn't as easy to flip. His decision wasn't by chance that he loved the strat over those. So like others before me, I took a new leftie strat and reversed the strings, the nut, the saddles, and the strap button to experience how Jimi had to deal with his own setup. The first thing that is cool is the tremolo on the low E side and the main thing for us righties is the lack of easy access to the hi E and B upper register of the fretboard. So, a thought about dropped to Eb would be, bending would be easier for Jimi to bend notes on the higher frets which are a bit restricted due to the bout of the body in the upper register. It is just another application to consider when trying to figure out Jimi's technique. Thank you, Jodi Anna
"Any gibson I've used tuned a half step down sounds like a muddy, dark, slinky, mess..." As I'm looking at my open C ES-335 and my d standard Les Paul
Hmmm well I don't have a gibson but i used my brothers gretsch and it sounded muddy with a rat distortion pedal and I enjoyed the sound honestly
I mean, that totally depends on string gauge and the particular guitar. This is why they make different sizes. And even if it's not "optimal", who cares? It's good to know what could give your sound an edge though
Good enough for Slash...
I have a gibson flying v tuned one step down and sounds killer... I have also played a friend's les paul, tuned exactly the same and it sounds massive... I think it's subjective
Iommi was downtuning his SG since the 70's, though he used customized pickups.
Dave Gilmour says you're wrong about this, strats always sound great
That's what I thought
Does he?
I wouldn’t say he would disagree about it, but there’s a lot of different things that go into making the decision to tune down a half step. I don’t think Roger ever thought of it.
@@moogsynth87 Roger?
@@patricksommer3971 Waters.. c'mon...
I was about to comment something about how Slash always tuned down, but you got it covered.
Saint Rhoads I always thought that was for Axl’s vocal range
@@PaulWilliamGibson yeah many of the people say thats the reason he tunes down
"Eb sounds awful in a Gibson".
-ACDC (live) and Slash: "And we took that personally."
Laughs in in flames
Alice in chains too
Zakk Wylde with Ozzy
@@fredriksvard2603 wait what does in flames play in Eb I thought they only played in D standard and lower
@@josku5 That's what I meant, they play low on Gibsons and it sounds awesome
I heard Eb helps you "Unleash the fokking fury" - Yngwie
...and a stewardess!
Yes!
😂 lol
Kid you not I had planned on shooting a video about this exact same thing Monday!!!
Great minds, Robert!
Robert Baker you still gonna do it right I still wanna see it
@@belowcelcius5406 Nah Rhett knocked it out of the park.
Robert Baker dew it!
@robertbaker do it anyway man, you know we want you too !!
Eb is easily my favorite tuning, and that truly all thanks to legends like SRV and Hendrix. A strat in general just sounds so awesome!
this and dadgad
RC32 It’s also the tuning Metallica uses live.
@@fooooked I love Dadgad!
@@prometheustv6558 Ahh definitely true~
What about d#
I saw an interview with Robin Trower where he explained his reasons for E flat = He said he wanted to use very heavy gauge strings and that E flat reduced the string tension to a degree where he could manage large bends - 2 step, even 2 and 1/2 step. within destroying his fingertips. He was of the opinion that heavy strings and higher action produce a better tone.
I definitely agree about higher action producing better tone. I ought to try heavier strings. It was easier when I was younger and could play 4 hours a day. Hard to build up the strength now.
Imo, higher action just means the string bends more sharp when fretting, and makes me clumsier to play properly. Too low of an action gives that string buzz tho, but too high is just hard to play. I feel like the lowest action that doesn't buzz at all is the sweet spot. Some people love a super low action at the expense of some fret buzz but for me the sweet spot is just high enough to not get buzz but be easy to play. Struggling to play makes you sound worse.
Hm, I'm pretty sure, that in your "three magnetic fields" theory is wrong, because when it comes to energy, it's actually the opposite: string with higher tension has a higher energy on same note, so it's more resistant then for any blocking force.
Agreed. There's obviously a point of optimal tension: too much and you aren't going to introduce enough vibration; too little and it will not spring back. I'd doubt this is that exacting point... doubly so because it would change based on string gauges, and there's no way they all played the same string tension.
that's right, Rhett is wrong about that: the lower you tune a string, the easier the magnet can pull it. also: the lower the tension, the wider a string swings (with the same energy plucking it), so it comes ever nearer to the pickup and gets pulled easier. The only way to reduce string pull: put the bass side of the pickups as far away from the strings as possible.
I think Rhett may be on to something. The strings may be affected by magnetism a little- so less ring or sustain. The back snd forth movement in a pickup coil is how the energy is transferred to the coil . Vibration over the magnets energize the windings. Whether or not someone likes it better is subjective.
You are completely right and I’m personally sick and tired of these youtuber throwing inaccurate opinions to the uneducated ones, that may end up believing them.
Also tuning down to d and getting thicker gauge strings is contradicting said theory
You said that Gibson’s sound like a muddy mess and then in the following clip drowned out the strat with fuzz, reverb, and delay.
Ace frehley played his les paul in Eb. I play mine that way too and I think it sounds better. Crispy and crunchy too. No mud or mush.
@@daves_not_here_mannn agree les Paul's sound great tuned down but I actually hate strays tuned to eb, the bouncy sound gets on my nerves most of the time
Not to mention Jimmy also played a Gibson V and SG in the same tuning
Horns are pitched to EbAnd Bb
Horn plyers hate the key of E
Easier for the guitars to tune to Eb
I also always played Gibson’s half step. I play in standard atm because after 20 years of playing I’m finally taking lessons haha, but I will definitely go back to half step
Beware! It's possible that that when you are used to a type of sound, when you change it, you percieve it as sounding better because of the "fresh" sound...brain gets bored of the same sound always and any change will amuse it....
Totally agreed! People don't seem to know much about that, and that's ok, but knowing how the brain works solves lots of doubts
Correct - thats why your Strat always sounds better if you change the pickups - especially after all the effort you’ve put in to do it!
@@Hickalum I have something wrong with me. I am happy with the stock pickups, on guitars and basses. I use the effects and amps to change things.
You’re 100% right, I’ve actually pitch shifted songs I like to re experience their magic. Crazy how the mind works.
Agreed. Interestingly, the opposite can also be true. When you're so used to something; you may dislike anything that's different to it because it's unfamiliar and not what you're used to.
I love this episode! I've been playing since forever (I'm 72) yet have NEVER tried tuning my Strat's down a 1/2 step. I've been aware that Hendrix did this but not all the other cats you mentioned. I'll have to try it just for giggles if for no other reason. Thanks & Cheers!!
Just tried it. Sounds more “Hendrixy” especially the “Hendrix chord” on Purple Haze.
Try playing it in standard tuning in the record key of Eb, I can't hear the difference. I use .010's....
Voodoo Chile (the long 15m jam on electric ladyland) was in D, Hendrix's strat sounds absolutely massive on there
@@starlightsongs I don't think so, I remember reading somewhere saying it was a strat into a cranked bassman. One of the greatest guitar tones of all time imo
@Randy Osgood check out Millstaps video about the Voodoo Chile tone, he nailed it with his bassman
I can confirm that many swing, jazz, and function accompanying players of the 40s, 50s, and 60s did tune down a half-step to make life easier working with horns
Thanks for the video Rhett. I always enjoy your stuff. I wanted to throw something in the conversation. You mentioned how you think Hendrix stayed a half step down because of his big band background. I think you nailed it and it makes perfect sense. Another thing I learned a few years ago was how Hendrix used varying string gauges with heavier, B, D, high E, and lighter low E, A and G strings. (010, .013, .015, .026, .032, .038). It only works when you're turned down a half step as well
After I tried this it BLEW MY MIND!! You instantly sound more like Hendrix. Not only that but sonically it changes the entire sound of the guitar. Best way I can describe it is that it makes your paint brush bigger. Makes simple cords have more harmony.
Keep posting cool stuff dude. Thanks!
The Hendrix string gauges were a custom gauge set designed for Jimi by Roger Mayer in order to balance the drastically altered string tension of playing an upside-down neck. Roger Mayer speaks to Guitar World regarding why he put together these custom gauges for Jimi. ...Interesting read.
I’m a “strat guy” and only tried Eb after watching an episode of That Pedal Show where the talked about it. I liked the tone, but the real difference for me was it fit so much better in my vocal range. Singing was so much more comfortable, now my strat lives in Eb.
This happened to me too and I didn't convince my band to follow me but it's amazing how much more naturally it fit for me too
I went from scared to sing to feeling like my voice could help add to what my guitar was doing.
Michael Fowler Yeah, I get the whole band not wanting to change keys, so I just leave my strat in Eb and play everything one fret up the neck. They like the tone so 🤷♂️
I convinced my bass player to change... He said, "why? I don't get it...", I said, "Because I said so!!!"🤣 Fuckin Bass Players
One semitone difference fit your vocal range better? It's easy enough to expand your vocal range by over a semitone. Easier than retuning your guitar!
@@nickburmanmusic *I changed for a different reason... My reasoning was is that you automatically sound different when playing the normal shapes you're use to playing...
Man i've never really noticed my strat sounding "better" when tuned down, but i'm gonna tune to Eb for a few weeks to test this out and really try to pay attention to the general sound. Great video as always.
I have 3 S alikes. one looks like the Woodstock axe. I've kept it in Eb for nearly 20 years. It sounds fatter than the others so the ideal RT or SRV guit.
One thing that you didn't mention is that most if not all of the artists you mentioned used thicker strings. SRV tuned down to Eb, which I always thought was to accommodate the bridge cables he used for guitar strings.
Also, old players like Hendrix and Beck did not have access to the variety of strings materials, tensions and so forth that we have today. I remember when I started back in the 70s that there were a couple of rows of guitar strings at best behind the counter. Now days, there are rows and rows of string choices in some stores.
A half step isn’t going to do much if your using thicker strings
In my experience it does. Not a ton, but enough that it’s noticeable when your playing.
Heavy gauge strings are MUCH easier to bend a half step down. You are correct! Back in the day, string choices were slim.
Until SRV got an endorsement and free strings from GHS he used Black Diamond. If you have never used them you sre in for a treat. get a set. I use 11's but they have the 13's he used . You can hear the Stevie tone in them and I'm only talking Stratocasters here. I like them, though they seem to be hard to get the intonation right. To me anyway.
You're not crazy. I played my strat a ton in Eb, but not so much when I tuned it back up to E standard. Just didn't sound right. Which reminds me, I should tune it back to Eb. Thanks Rhett!
The horn point is really interesting, and it makes sense that a non-jazz player like the young Jimi might do that. When I first starting playing with a jazz workshop a few years ago, I was kvetching to the leader (who is also a guitar player) about having to play in all these annoying keys to accommodate the horn players. I said: "Why don't jazz guitarists just tune down a half step so they can play all these horn tunes in comfortable keys?" He just looked at me like I was crazy. Like: it's *supposed* to be hard!
But of course the horn players all think *they're* playing in comfortable keys like C and G.
Yes Bb for lots of horn players in that period.
@@mikeokeefe9396 E flat for sax...B flat for Trumpets..the C melody or soprano sax is one of the only horns that works well with a standard guitar tuning unless you use a capo or bar everything
@@riverman6655 Eb for alto and baritone, Bb for tenor and soprano. Bb for trumpet. Etc.
PS to partially answer my own question, I did some poking around online and found an interesting answer: when you play in flat keys on a guitar in standard tuning, you can use the open strings to get interesting and useful chord extensions. Never thought of that.
Welcome to the world of different size instruments and transposing and sadistic composers. And stupid musicians loving problems, instead of solving them. You should propose them, to stop using equal temperament, and start playing the chords as they were intended. You can play ALL consonant chords fully consonant, why not? If you switch to fretless it is easier. In short, tell them you want different tuning and be amazed by their response. Are you crazy? Fully consonant? What? We only play dissonant, who cares?
4:45 the reason all the other guitar players tuned down like Hendrix did is because they were either copying Hendrix or copying the guy copying Hendrix.
I don't doubt Hendrix is the reason for causing other musicians to down tune though I think a large part might just be that it's easier to play when downtuned, which is generally prefered especially for long gigs.
girl who dislikes others opinions Sure that is probably a reason too. I don‘t know of other guitarists who did it before him. I am sure there were some. But after Hendrix most people who tuned down a half or whole step were copying Hendrix. I would love to know why Hendrix did it and how deliberate it truly was on his part.
That's what I thought too.
"These might be the reasons why Jimi tuned down. But why did the other guys tune down too?"
"Because Jimi, duh!"
Yeah, I can't help but think that if Jimi had never tuned down then none of the other guy's would have either. No evidence for thinking that but I have a very strong suspicion that it's true.
@@warrenburroughs3025 I share your intuitions
0:45 “certainly not les Pauls”
Slash has left the chat
He never left the hat tho
@PRIVATE he has an amazing solo band now
As have Kiss and Thin Lizzy.
Liked then unliked to keep at 69
@@variklane7032 I'll allow it
It happened to me not so long ago...the equilibrium between spring and string tension is pretty narrow in strats, and affects the overall setup and action. While trying 0.10-0.46 gauge strings, I realized that everything worked better a full step down, and that opened a new spectrum of tones to me. It was like a revelation...
I love that you mentioned Billy Corgan, he’s an overlooked great
I went to an open mic a few years ago and ended up playing someone's acoustic, tuned down to e-flat. Being a vocalist also, I was amazed how much easier it was to sing songs i previously struggled to hit the high notes on. I went home and tuned all my instruments to e-flat. I had never previously been able to sing Bob Seger stuff well, but now i could power it through. I have heard that a lot of recordings are recorded in e-flat and then sped up so they sound like E tuning. John Lennon's I'm Only Sleeping is played in an e-flat tuning. I have also found that it has helped my ears. Playing all those flats and sharps made my ears sharper to half steps. In his instructional DVD, Roger McGuinn states that he tunes down to E-flat on his 12 strings, to lower the neck tension a bit and make it easier to play.
Rhett, thank you for explaining this in terms that actually make sense. The 25.5 inch scale sounds better when tuned down half a step because of the way the harmonics are spread around on the neck. That makes sense and the differences is noticeable. I’m glad your explanation was more in depth than “it just sounds better” while taking a long time to say it like most people would have done. Great job! Thanks again.
FYI-If you watch Rig Run Down with Robin Trower, I think it is the one with the Premier Guitar guy, Sorry I forgot his name, Trower says he now tunes down 1 full step as he uses, either 11-12 Guage strings. As far as the other guys who knows. I wonder why Clapton and a bunch others do not. I have always been an A440 guy. Love strats and les pauls. What ever works for you- who cares.Good Video.
New course idea: "Armchair Physics 101 with Professor Shull"
Every video would start with “ I don’t know if this is true, but it makes sense when you think about it.”
@@RhettShull I have to say that as a reformed electrical engineering student (I dropped out to repair and restore vintage analog monosynths and Fender Rhodes pianos) this was one of the most interesting videos of yours for me to watch. I'm pretty certain of what I think I know about physics, but I also know enough to realize that lots of phenomena are counterintuitive and it's really easy to hold a conceptual idea of something that stands up to plausible reasoning but still happens to be dead wrong. You make a number of assumptions that are informed by your experience, and I for one am really curious to know which assumptions have merit and which ones are more questionable. The UA-cam channel Veritasium is great at exploring these non-intuitive quirks that fall out of the laws of physics. Maybe you and Derek could collaborate on some content; the physics of guitar tone??? I can't think of two people better equipped to tackle that topic. There's elasticity, harmonic motion, resonance, and magnetic field interaction. You guys can have a field day. The $64,000 question: can Derek play guitar at all? :-)
@@jfreedner Read Zollner "Physics of the Electric Guitar", now translated from German to English. Based on measurements on real guitars. Free download at GITEC website.
Even D tuning works well for Strats too. I’ve always used heavier strings for a Strat too, even with bands that end up being easier to tune standard with I always used at least 11s on them. For some reason Strats just seem to work with one gauge bigger than you usually use.
Tuned to D with 11s is my bag on the Strat!
11 unleashes the strat sound it s because the whole guitare shakes and rings
Teles, Strats and Jazzmasters were initially designed for heavier-gauge flatwound strings, which were THE string-type option in the '50s and early '60s, so your comment makes a lot of sense.
There was an interview with John Entwistle, who jammed with Hendrix, and basically said Jimi didn't know his guitar was in Eb; his guitar tech set them to that so he'd break fewer strings.
That's just funny and probably true. People have a tendency to enlarge a subject.
Hendrix knew his theory really well. I'd be surprised if Jimi didn't know he was in Eb. On the Electric Ladyland documentary Eddie Kramer brings up how hendrix preffered to play in Eb because it was easier to sing with.
Hendrix not knowing the tuning of his guitar is a ridiculous notion!
🤣🤣🤣That's funny
@@KazKasozi he might not have noticed it at first. You don't always think about these things when you're playing.
Also his tech probably tuned down Noel's bass as well.
The legendary Buck Owens and Don Rich were tuning to E flat (on their Tele's) in '66 and then modulating. Watch clips of The Buck Owens Show for awesome examples.
Good advise. You explained about many things I take for granted. I'll definitely try Eb tuning.
Steve Vai and of course Stevie Ray Vaughn experimented with down tuning. I heard Stevie
tuned down to D and played with 13 gauge strings.
I think it's the opposite with the string tension and the magnets.The higher the string tension is, the more "resistant" the string is against the magnetic field.
And to really compare the two tunings you would need to play the riffs in the same key (so you would need to put a capo on the first fret in Eb-Tuning).
But besides that, awesome video, I love my strat in Eb too!
You're right about the first statement, but about the second... you must not only take into account the string tension differences between tunings, but also tension differences on a same string across the fretboard (closer to the 12th fret = more loose). There is a little (but perceptible) difference in string tension between playing a riff on E standard and the same riff in the same key on Eb standard, just 1 fret higher (with or without capo), and it's even wider if open strings are used in the first case, as tension at the nut in E standard is not the same as the 1st fret on Eb standard. So, comparing both things as you recommend is, at best, pointless (and impossible, at worst).
Yes!! And also, putting aside the magnet issue, strings just generally have more sustain when they're tighter.
Each instrument/tuning likely has a "sweet spot", a goldilocks zone of scale/string gauges/tuning, based on how we perceive things. That's why baritone guitars have longer scale and thicker strings, basses - even more so. So strat likely has its true sweet spot a tad lower than traditional guitars that came before it (Gibson being a traditional instrument builder). But standard tuning is a stickier tradition than scale length. It's easier to market a new electric guitar than some unheard of Eb instrument. So there we are. It's really neat how many particular quirks a traditional strat has, which have been exploited by players. Almost makes me want to get a strat. Almost :)
11:24 I would say they sound great in both tunings. Don’t forget that David Gilmour, John Mayer, and John Frusciante all have wonderful tone and tune to standard.
Yes, indeed. There's more to great tone than tuning, but if it opens up new sonic territory, so much the better! Gilmour had specific pickup heights (or rather, distances between strings and pole pieces), and favored specific gauge strings, in addition to custom pickup wiring, so any combination of these things, with or without tuning down, can achieve awesome tones :)
@John Dew The stock pickups in my Gilmour Tribute Strat copy aren't bad, but I've bought a replacement set to install to bring it more in line with his, around the time of Animals up to The Wall.
I giggled when he said a les Paul in Eb is muddy and slinky, I play my les Paul in B Standard
But you probably don't use .10's right?
Lol my Gibson V pretty much stays in drop C or B
I used to do the same thing with my Epiphone Les Paul custom. I had it as low as drop a but as long as you use thicker strings it should be fine. Intonation may be a problem depending on how low and the string gauge. I used 56-13 gauge
I need to look into this method 🧐
Oh hey Matt I'm subscribed to you! Cool to see you watching Rhett's stuff too! Your playing and what you do with your tone is absolutely a Strat players dream!
Hey Matt! Love your stuff man
heyy mattt!
You never tuned down?
Also, in case it wasn't mentioned elsewhere, Ace Frehley is a Les Paul player that tunes down to Eb. All the classic Kiss songs were tuned down half-step.
"SRV would have been my first choice for players that tune down a half step"
"... I like Strats tuned down to Eb..."
That's what I learned from this video, and the idea I already had.
Not because they unquestionably sound better. Maybe because JH and others sometimes used that tuning. To play with saxes, or because the singer asks to low the tuning, OK.
I can think of other reasons that were lightly mentioned: with 9s and the action I like, it fret buses. So I go for 10s. Now they are harder to play, especially bending. I could go for 9.5s or Eb.
In short scale guitars (like Gibsons), that can work the same way. All with a bit less tension.
Bending strings is easier.
Anyone else saying why wasn't stevie ray vaughan on the list, if not one of the first guys on the list of Eb players?
I was thinking that too.
He played a weird string set with real heavy strings on the top, he almost had to tune down because a 13 gauge E-string will fuck your fingers up regardless
I thought SRV played in D
Yes!! He is the king of eflat on a strat
EXACTLY
I've never really liked the feel of my strat until I recently fitted a top loading hardtail bridge in place of the two point trem. I've had the thing 20 years and now, finally it feels incredible to play. I thing a big part of that is that im not fighting the tension of the springs anymore. Its possible that tuning down has a similar effect. Love your videos
I have a tele deluxe that i can top load. That combined with Eb tuning and It's a totally different guitar.
They sound way better!!! You could also put Van Halen in that group too. Strat with a humbucker. SRV, Duarte. Note that Duarte and Trower now play in D and Trower in particular sounds huge these days. Worth checking out his more recent stuff, still putting out stuff in his 70's. Pretty cool.
I saw Trower a couple years ago and his tone and playing is as good as ever. Absolutely massive tone, and he let it rip.
Chris totally tears it up on Strat. Henry from Los Lonely Boys and Kenny Wayne Shepherd. And I was kinda surprised he left out SRV while name dropping a few in that category.
Pretty sure Eddie ran 1/4 step down roughly aka slack tuned by ear and then everyone just matched him.
Eddie changed the Rock world overnight with Van Halen 1.
@@gtrslngrchris Including his bro
I've been playing my '68 Strat in my bar band (just me, bass player, and drummer, and all of us sing) forever. We've been in Eb the whole time. My Strat sounds way better than when tuned to E (as it is when I jam with friends or record with local musicians). Plus tuning down a half step helps keep us from straining our voices on vocals. Great video!
EVH tuned to Eb in many of his songs
Hi Rhett, your vids are always great but this one stood out for me. I never understood why strats were so popular until I got into Eb tuning around the time I got into SRV. You really explained why this makes sense, especially with the 3 pickup magnet idea. I've never gone back, and also being a gigging singer + guitarist it really helped me get through those crazy night after night tours vocally. Love your work and playing. Found you through Rick Beato. Best of luck for 2022 and looking forward to more videos. Much appreciation from Scotland, UK.
I’m a songwriter, and my “humming” for ideas are typically around the key of Eb because of my vocal range. When I started to tune down, I felt more connected with the guitar. I know sounds weird but that’s just how I felt haha. In addition to the fact that it was easy to play overall (not just bends) I sensed a more “lush” quality from my chords. This characteristic accentuate when I use some kind of modulation effect like a chorus. It’s good to know there is some science behind. Guitar: G&L Fallout (tribute series)
I feel the same with D standard tuning haha
"Strats sound better in Eb"
David Gilmour, Eric Clapton, John Mayer, Rory Gallagher, Mark Knopfler *left the chat
John Fruciante, Jimmy Hendrix
@@pranavchaware Jimi was mostly in Eb
Also Mayer did stuff in Eb, and EC (check my 'Forever Man' comment) even went down to D tuning
*and stevie ray
@@landondavismusic Yeah but he didn't leave the chat :-)
My older brother, who's a singer & guitarist like me, used to scoff at me for tuning down a half step. But once he tried it he couldn't go back to 440. If you sing a lot in your higher register, that little half step makes a huge diff over the course of a night.
Thanks for great videos. You and the friends you appear with Rhett!
What would be a better “scientific” test would be if you played an A chord whilst the guitar was tuned to standard, then played an A when it’s tuned down (I mean an actual A, not just the A shape which would be an Ab) then do a blind test of the sound to see if you notice a difference. What I tend to find is that most of my original riffs sound better when in Eb compared to standard, and that’s probably because a riff played half a step down will sound dirtier.
Won't work the same because it's not an open chord at that point. Fretted chords will have a slightly different tone because of all the strings coming in contact with the frets, barred finger potentially sharpening the middle notes, the open strings will resonate a little longer (minutely), and there's less string length involved so it will shift to more fundamental tones and less overtones
point being that it's not a perfect scientific test
Daniel Brunner true, which is why scientific was in quotes. Though I didn’t specify an open A chord, and you could use a barre chord for both. I still think it would be an interesting experiment. What I was pointing out was that when he played that riff in standard, then played the riff in Eb, he actually played different notes, so it would sound different because the riff is tonally half a step lower.
@@danielbrunner5878 so then play both chords in the F shape in the 5th and 6th fret respectively
What was that background music a minute and a half in? That was awesome
Looks like a live band rehearsal doing a jam on Hey Joe? 4:30
@@LocoDiablo9 Good call. 1:44 has an easily recognizable riff from "Hey Joe", as well.
I'm studying physics and when you loosen up the than the stored energy in the String will deacrease. So i m not sure about the tension thingy
Yeah exactly, I think he means it in the way that there's less energy required to make it output the peak signal (though the peak signal is actually a bit quieter)
I think that both strats and teles sound and feel better tuned a half step down. I believe this is mostly to do with the scale length of the guitars. They are notoriously a little bit longer than Gibsons. It’s the reason Billie Joe Armstrong from Green Day plays almost all of their older stuff on fenders (or fender copies) and plays their newer stuff on gibsons. Their older stuff was tuned to E flat, and their newer stuff is tuned to standard. It allows the tension to feel the same on each instrument, without having to use different string gauges.
To be fair, everyone else probably did it because, and stop me if you've heard this one, Jimi Hendrix did it.
Based
Actually that's a pretty good reason to do anything guitar related.
Tuning to Eb on a Les Paul don't work? Two words for you matey,
THIN,
LIZZY.
You tune Les Pauls in D :P
Also slash on the gun n r stuff is in eflat and his les paulmsounds great
Jerry Cantrell.
Year later, Rhett tunes to drop Gb and plays heaviest chugs and tells us how amazing it is.
he already has a baritone tuned to Standard B so yeah not far away Lol
@@satyarsh665 oh, you're right! totally forgot about the baritone
I tuned my SG to B standard. My friend often plays a schecter tuned to A standard... Black metal will do that too ya! 🤣 I tune my 4 string bass to b standard with 105-45 strings. Works great for rock and metal.
My two Strats now tuned down to Eb. Much better all round. Tone, playability all improved!!
Thanks for the tip!
One of my absolute favorite electric guitar tones is the one Maddison Cunningham gets...If I'm not mistaken she detunes her Fender Jazzmaster to C standard and puts it through a vintage Gibson Falcon (GA-19RVT)...She's able to get a pretty wide range of tones that way, all the way from rich, dark and haunting to very open, bluesy and raw...I also think she's a fabulous guitar player...
Thanks for this vid, very informative and interesting...
Yup, Madison is a certified badass!
Cool I'll check her playing out. My main is a Jazz downtuned to drop drop C#
Heyyy, another Madison fan! I was thinking about her playing during this vid
@@bipbipletucha Absolutely!...
Is it possible you have overlooked an important point. Back in the day, string manufacturers did not make the lighter gauge strings. (Nine gauge) Bending 10 gauge strings is much harder with standard tuning. Stepping it down makes it easier bend.
Practise overcomes string tension.
He mentioned that
back in what day? certainly in the early 70's they were making 9's. Elliott Randall mentions having used very light strings - early 70's.
Didn’t Jimi Hendrix use 7s?
@@evanchavez6255 Hard to get such a great tone out of baby strings
I havent tried Eb on my strat yet but ive come to love using Eb tuning on my Fender Acoustic. It feels and sounds more balanced to me. Im going to try it on my strat. I think also the lower darker tuning works so well with a strat in theory is also due to how bright the single coils sound. Its like that microphone technique of using brighter mics on darker tones and vise versa, it creates more balance
My fender acoustic lives in Eb. Everything about the combination works very well. The guitar just sounds better, more alive, if that makes any sense 😂
orry Fishburne Kinda like taking an inherently bright pickup (example: a Seymore Duncan Duckbucker) and dialing the tone *way* down?
Looser strings move in a larger pattern than tight strings. Magnetic pickups work by the motion of the steel strings disturbing the magnetic field. The larger the motion of the string, the higher the voltage produced by the pickup. Higher voltage produces better sustain and increases natural distortion. By the same token, the tone can also be effected by the right string gauge choice. Thicker strings also produce higher voltages, but also require more tension to reach standard tuning than thinner strings. High tension decreases the size of the vibration pattern, thereby lowering peak voltage. It's a trade off. BUT, fatter strings are better for drop-tuning, because they will retain a reasonable playing tension even as much as three steps down. It's a balancing act for sure. SRV used very heavy strings and tuned down one full step in order to create that unique, rich, full sound from his Strat. Some other players opted for extremely thin strings and standard tuning, to achieve bolder tone, but this requires the use of stronger pickups. A set of 8-38 gauge strings require an average of 8lbs less tension per string than 9-42s.
I disagree on the Gibson comment though. My SG is always in Eb strung with 11’s. No trouble with tone at all.
I use a Les Paul tuned to Eb with 11's too... no problem with the tone at all I even play Drop C stuff
Tony Iommi tuned his SG down a whole step!
Playing an amp with more watts cleans up the tone and clarity of a humbucker. he left that out. But he's a young guy soooooo.
@@emanuelenicolosi6099 a tone and a half. i tune my sg that way, with 0.12/13 hybrid strings
@@emanuelenicolosi6099 step and a half for vol 4
Rhett: "A LesPaul a 1/2 step down doesn't work"
Slash: "Hold my beer"
Zakk Wylde also. "Mama I'm Comin' Home" has his Les Paul tuned down a half step.
come here to read this coment jajajaja ,"teles and les paul don´t sound good on eb, GNR XD XD XD
There are some people that don’t think Slash is the beginning and end of guitar.
@@HARTYNMUGHES sorry, but slash, even according to himself, has not progressed guitar, much less music, in any significant way. he plays cliched licks and riffs very well, but there's very little originality. don't get me wrong, he sounds good to an average person, but he's not doing anything special and he himself will admit that. he plays a ton of uninspired, recycled licks (e.g., sweet child of mine was literally a string-skipping exercise he got from a book), but he doesn't care, he just loves playing guitar. which is totally respectable - he is a very genuine and likable person, but don't claim he has advanced music or guitar in any meaningful sense. he knows this and has mentioned it in interviews, so to claim him the beginning and end of guitar, oof. there are thousands of players who have had a much larger impact
pielily I’m sure you’ll eventually realise you just waisted your time writing this reply! lol Go on, reread what the guy you are replying to actually said, I’ll wait. Anyway, Slash inspired a generation to pick up the guitar and that’s important. If what he plays hasn’t progressed guitar playing, it’s fine where it is because if doesn’t get much better than that.
"Les Pauls sound like a slinky muddy mess." doesn't it depend on what gauge your playing? I could probably tune to C on a Les Paul or any Gibson and it'll sound great if I just play with thicker strings right?
Scale lenght improves intonation aswell.
Of course. A set of 11-54 strings should make it possible to get a Les Paul down to C. There are a lot of metal bands playing at least in Drop C with LP style guitars. I wouldn't go below C on a LP no matter how thick the set of strings is, though. The shorter scale length is a handicap.
I have 3 Les Paul with different gauges and different tuning, but they all were in a moment in Eb before i decided wich one sounds better with different tuning, and I agree they all sound weird tuned that way
@@headphonejack9479 Any stoner rock or doom band would disagree lol
Yes, bigger strings = more tension, at a given pitch.
Hey Rhett, I love that you experiment with alternate tunings to achieve your desired tone. And starting with the Strat makes a lot of sense to me. In some ways this touches on your slide and open tuning videos, which inspire me personally.
Going from there I identify myself as a Telecaster player, but I have always gravitated towards 3 pickup Teles, just to find a similar ground or maybe even tone with the Stratocaster. I have a 2006 American Deluxe Strat which I love. One huge difference between Strats and Teles of course is the bridge plate on the Telecaster which you won't find on a Stratocaster. And given that their musical uses are generally pretty different, but not exclusive, they are clearly distinctly different tools.
I also appreciate your comments on scale length and string tension impacts. I started playing around with that when I "built" my own Baritone Telecaster and then watched your video on Open D tuning.
No 'Plan B'? . . . Way to be you!
Of course it's all fun and games. . . Thanks!
I really like your comments at the end, just generally about everyone should be trying different guitars to what they're used to, that resonates with me strongly right now, I've been playing almost exclusively strats for about 10 years, and realized I've got this collection of guitars that are all the same, so now I'm going out of my way to play things like Les Pauls and SGs, to find something I really click with, and hopefully the next addition to my collection will be completely different to what I already have
I was in the same boat as you are in, I just bought myself a gretsch jet, not quite a les paul but close. Still has some fender feel out of it as it has a bit more jangle than regular humbucker would. Also been loving SGs lately just weird to get comfy with but the tones are awesome
Please do a clean bit first when you discuss guitar tone, etc. The distortion, reverb, and other effects tend to hide tonal differences.
Right? My god that tone is shite🤣can you hear anything? No articulation at all, I used to sound like that back in the 70s when I was 13 and hit the amp with a maestro fuzz box🤣🤣🤣fing horrible🤣
I have my doubts about one specific part of the Hendrix Eb narrative, that is tuning down for jazz bands. You can easily get away with E standard guitar in a jazz context as it's unlikely you'll want to play full 5 or 6 string chords and even less likely you'll want to play cowboy chords. There might be a benefit with open string pedal tones, but generally guitars play sparsely in jazz bands as keys / bass occupy a ton of sonic territory just by themselves.
I think the string tension narrative is more compelling as I believe the string gauges were generally heavier back then. Ernie Balls were slinky because most string sets were 12+ with wound Gs.
Jimi was playing R&B not jazz. I'm sure Rhett is correct on this idea because Jimi did tune down while in his early "chitlin' circuit" era. Cheers P[>
Love that I know what song your playing 😁 nice video dude
You forgot SRV. That's a sin. You need to repent lol.
Right....honestly horrified! Rhett come on dude!
Thought the same damn thing. SMH
No kidding.
i saw this comment immediately after the totally forgot him right off the bat
Seriously!! Eb tuning is the SRV trademark
Guns and roses plays almost 100% of their live set on Eb and sounded great! They play les pauls exclusively!!
Depends on your opinion of GnR and your definition of "great".
Was thinking the exact same thing!
They play a number of other guitars other than Les Pauls live. Slash doesn't even play them exclusively during the live sets. It did sound great for sure.
Slash also played bc rich guitars pretty often... Such as his Bich and Mockingbird
Short For A Stormtrooper Big For Your Mom jajaja thanks!! Actually had to wait about 2 minutes, until Rhett said that les pauls don’t sound good half step down!
"If tuning down to Eb works, why not tune down to D?"
The djent is calling you, Rhett...
This is gettin outta hand
@@jonathankrieger9121 Isn't that why we have 19 string guitars tuned to drop Q?
Djent? Bro it's not 2015 anymore
Surely when tuning further to D and putting heavier strings on will just make it feel and sound like E b or even E standard if the strings are heavy enough
Mr. Blonde I’m dead 💀💀
Glad you finally tried and loved it. I came to this same conclusion some time ago but not without some resistance to those who first suggested it. Thanks for spreading the word. PS it’s easier to sing in Eb too.
I disagree with the Gibson statement. I usually tune them down 3 steps (to C# Standard) for the Sabbath sound.
They certainly sound dark and you need to know how to control that in a mix, but they are fantastic for oldschool heavy tones.
Black Sabbath, Soundgarden, Down, Metallica, Motörhead, Thin Lizzy... there is a very long list of bands who tuned down their Gibsons.
What's weird is that I play SRV tunes on an SG, use 11's, and tune down to Eb. Some people might look at me as if I committed a war crime but it works for me. 😃
Eric Johnson tunes to standard, I can't really recall any 1/2 step down tuning except maybe some Hendrix covers. Most people including Hendrix that tune down 1/2 step are likely doing so to match their voice range not for feel or sound.. Robin trower is an exception which tunes to d tuning for feel. It's not as common I feel today because fret board radius have flattened out and fighting bending tension on 7.25 radius with high action to keep from fretting out and having too much tension on bends from high action and not as much horn sections in arrangements which use the standard Bflat pitch.
It’s not as common today cause half the music world graduated past e flat long ago. Now there’s metal songs in like drop f # blues on baritone guitars tuned to b or b flat is becoming a more popular thing (which I personally love the idea of and would love to have a baritone so I could try it) baritones are also getting used for slide a lot more now. But I would somewhat agree with what you said. I think a lot of it was vocal range but I’m pretty sure there was some reasons for feel going on.
@@richardshank7659 Meshuggah popularized Eb tuning on 8 string aka F Standard tuning, which is quite common in the prog metal/djent genre
"certainly not on Les Paul" isn't Slash playing all his life in Eb?
Yes
yes
yes
yes
He’s running 11s strings on eb guitars, is the string gauge related to the scale length? So 9s in standard tuning on a strat, but 10s on a les Paul for example for similar resonance?
Wow, your observations about Gibson at Eb vs Strat at Eb was spot on. I thought only I felt this way!
I just picked up my first strat, and have alot if problems keeping it in tune, and when i put new strings on. It becomes worse, keeping tremolo from wanting to keep rising up higher and higher when i keep trying to keep it in tune. Qhats up ?
And is it me , but do stratocaster's just have next no resistance in the strings when bending, i meaning it feels like i am playing with spaghetti. I keep over powering all the notes. I think its bc of playing nothing but my acoustic for the last 3 yrs . And i use 12's on it, and the fender came with 9's and i put 10's on it. But no difference
it's a fender? put some 11's it might help
Hendrix played a Gibson sg as well, but yeah. He’s a strat legend :)
and a Flying V for "Red House"
@@Jobotubular he made flying sound strat-like, dont trust me, go see jolly dagger live clip in colours, not my favorite axeman, thats blackmore, but jimi really done some things.insane.
@@Jobotubular he made flying sound strat-like, dont trust me, go see jolly dagger live clip in colours, not my favorite axeman, thats blackmore, but jimi really done some things.insane.
What about a 24" scale Strat in standard tuning? (24" is pretty close to a capo on the first fret). I love mine tuned down and then capoed. Mustang style.
Interesting, but the vibrato will not work
Well ok... I'll give it a shot. I'm a Tele guy who just got his first Strat... we are becoming good friends
I like what you said about single pickup guitars.
Example: I was given a single pup Harmony Rocket... I messed with it... it had promise, but it was hard to keep in tune and there wasn't sustain.
In my junk I had a Tune-O-Matic bridge. Remo ed the wooden one, made a mount to the arch-top curve, mounted the bridge... the sting spacing was off... out my jeweler's saw, I cut new grooves... voila.... perfect.
I had just bought an expensive set of tuners for an acoustic I had.... I figure I'd "try" them out. The tuners made a huge difference too.
I did all this before I knew much about guitars... but in a sense, was a techno geek. I could figure shit out.
This guitar is an amazing Blues guitar... it does that clean scream so well.
I came across a two pickup model for a great price. Psyched... off to the workshop I went, did the same mods. It was really disappointing... plugged into the same rig.
What you said about less magnetic force makes sense... the single just rang like a bell in comparison...
I'm a Tele guy who just got his first Strat... we are becoming friends... I'll give Eb a go... Also try D... very curious...
Love your vids....
One of the greatest Strat albums ever recorded is Robin Trowers' "Bridge Of Sighs" it's in standard tuning. The whole thing. It's all about your headspace man!
The longer his career went the lower his choice of tunings. But....none of his other works (...and I love most of them) will ever eclipse "Bridge Of Sighs"! Though I totally get what Rhett is saying here!
I don't recall Eric Johnson tuning his Strats down a half step very frequently.
You’re correct, he doesn’t. Rhett pulled that one from his ass.
@@seltzer5334 I caught that immediately, too.
Eric Johnson didnt
@@seltzer5334 thanks, I was stuck on that lol
@@viewoftheaskew Yeah so was I. I didn't make sense, right?
Hey Rhett, awesome video as always. Two thoughts:
1) Do you think string gauge plays a role here? Eb allows for a heavier gauge with the same tension. Maybe the Strat likes heavier strings. The players you mention (I think?) all use 10s or 11s and SRV famously used 12s and 13s.
2) What do you think about creating a 'best of both worlds' situation by tuning a Strat to Eb and then raising the pitch a half step with a pitch shift pedal like the Digitech whammy? For the garden variety home player who doesn’t want to spend half their playing time tuning up and down.
Keep it up!
Any pitch shifting needs to be played loud enough to where I don't hear the guitar acoustically or play through headphones or everything sounds disorienting due to the different pitches.
i play in E standard and always kept my pickups lowest height. this man just taught me why i like my pickups low, WOW