It's a good point with Microsoft using standard batteries for their controllers. I hadn't even thought of why they would do that but the sustainability of it makes so much sense. Got a lot more respect for them now, and I'm hoping to see some more companies start doing the same thing with their peripherals
Yeah being able to just put batteries in or have a removable battery pack is so nice. My friends always give me shit for using my old Turtle Beach headset because it takes two AAA batteries. Thing is i've had it since 2013 and the only thing i ever had to do was get new rechargeable AAA's every 2 or 3 years. It still works perfectly. Modularity is a major selling point for me.
Well the main problem is that it's a faff to recharge. Imagine if they let you use the controller to recharge the batteries when you plug it in. that would be cool. You could then replace the batteries when the break so that would be the best solution.
@@arunosborn3169 I always buy two sets of batteries so i always have one set charging and the other set in use. Can be annoying in a multiplayer situation but it takes maybe a few seconds longer than when you have to grab a cable. The extra hassle is worth it.
@@CharlesVanNoland Eh. I liked the old set better. The black background annoyed me so much on the actual WAN show that I decided to only watch clips. Only on my phone did I realize the background isn't entirely black.
The Sega Dreamcast used Hall Effect sensors for its controllers. However, right now I don't know if it'll cause problems with other signals inside the device to when in use. I will say, it's still vastly superior to the potentiometer joysticks we use today in terms of durability.
@@nikkoa.3639 I knocked one of my Odyssey Plus controllers off of something at some point, and found out that the triggers are hall effect plus spring. For a joystick I don't know, but for other controls a spring and a magnetic sensor will last much longer than a potentiometer. (Reassembled the controller and it was fine. It weirdly just popped the trigger out falling from like a foot.)
I agree with the rechargable batteries as well. It's even more compelling for xbox controllers given the huge amount of third party batteries/chargers which will last a more cycles compared to off the shelf rechargeable batteries
I think the big problem is that Switch joysticks start drifting far sooner than traditional sticks. They will start drifting about 100-500 hours of use. Traditional controller sticks start drifting around 2k-3k hours. (just estimating, not data). I mean, I barely use my Switch and drift started a year in a half in. At age 12, I played xbox 8-16 hours a day, only had to replace controllers every 3-5 years.
I think that all the latest console controllers have been suffering from early drift, no? I think it was just more talked about with the switch because of how many consoles have been sold.
To be fair, it has more to do with newer controllers in general. My Xbone controller lasted for only 7 months, then the analog became faulty. My brother bought one with bluetooth not working at all. Also I have 7 PS3 original controllers, 5 of them have some issue. And I'm extra careful with controllers, all my friends recognize that. PS1/2 controllers were far more tougher for sure. I still own a perfectly working Dualshock 1 controller, which I used on my PC with a USB adapter for years. Granted, I don't use it anymore, I'm currently using a DS4, and to be honest I don't expect to last much either.
The problem between disposable and rechargeable batteries is most of the time the difference between voltage. Disposable are 1.5v and rechatgeable 1.3v. A lot of appliences dont work wit 1.3v batteries
It’s not only that all joysticks fail, but specifically the exact part used in the switch that fails is the exact same part down to the part number from the exact same manufacturer for the ps4, ps5, xbox one, and xbox series x joysticks.
Okay, and how are they going to detect if the batterys are rechargeable? Thought about that? Because non rechargeable ones typically don't like being charged. You are oversimplifying this issue a bit.
In response to Linus' "hot take." Microsoft does not care about the environment. Their position when asked about AA batteries is that they "offer more options" by doing this. AKA batteries or battery packs. The reality, they signed an agreement with Duracell. I've had many AA/AAA rechargeable batteries just stop holding any reasonable charge. My PS3 controllers still hold a healthy charge 15 years later. It's also safe to say that while one person might use rechargeable, others will just grab the quickest option when their controller dies. Whatever is in the drawer, typically. That could very well be just a random AA that will end up going in the bin. Those aren't exactly easy on the planet to manufacture either.
Luke should know, that Eneloop Pro is only "better" in high-current applications. They have higher self-discharge and lower capacity, but also lower internal resistance for high-current applications like photo flashes and quick-charging. They're shit in stuff like clocks, mice and remotes compared to ordinary Eneloop
Anything mechanical will perish from wear alone at some point. Though it would be great to just get the right measurements when 3D printing replacement mechanical parts using resin or filaments whose mechanical and thermal properties are appropriate to the use case.
God. Thank you for mentioning the controller thing. I have way too many friends who give microsoft hell for the batteries. I got rechargeable batteries in the Xbox 360 era and haven't needed to replace them in 2021. Meanwhile my PS4 and friends PS4 controllers get maybe 3-4 hours before they need plugged back in. It's so annoying
YES I prefer external batteries waaay over internal. Just have a pack of eneloops and swapping them takes seconds, and it'll last for months before taking mere seconds to "recharge" them again.
Important thing to mention in regards to looking at Valve's previous hardware products: They aren't a hardware company. You can really see this in how their handling of their hardware has progressively gotten better with every product they release. By their own admission they made mistakes with the Index's design that I'm sure will be rectified with their next VR headset, and maybe repair-ability will be one of them, though I will admit that VR headsets and controllers *do* present unique challenges for repairing due to multiple aspects of how they have to be designed. Despite that, however, I will say that the Index controllers are not nearly as difficult to take apart as they could have been. Still not *easy* and I couldn't figure out how to fully disassemble it, and also somehow screwed up the finger tracking in the process, but nothing was glued together or any crap like that.
I wanted to buy a PS5 controller despite hating the layout just cause the haptic feedback sounds fun but i decided not to because i still dont have drift on my xbox360 controller and its like 6-7 years old at this point and it's compatibility with games is just amazing. All games are plug n play. Once it breaks i'll search for another 360 controller or finally convert to other ones.
9:02 I agree with your point, except for the fact that MS is shipping the controllers with disposable batteries. That's terrible and they totally deserve to take flak for that. By shipping them with disposable ones, they're also adding unnecessary ewaste so it's just as bad as controllers with built-in batteries. They should ship them with rechargable ones (since you can charge them in the controller). I just recently bought a new Xbox controller and I don't know what to do with the disposable batteries that came with it. I've been using rechargable batteries for a decade or so and have no use for the disposable ones...
Using standard batteries is mostly fine. The main issue is the hassle of recharging them rather than just being able to put the device on the charger. That is what my old-style portable phone does. It came with two rechargeable AAA style batteries. The ideal is a replaceable battery that you can charge from the device. You should always also be able to use a separate charger, but the main thing is that you can just charge the device when you aren't using it without the hassle of removing the batteries and putting them back in. It just makes for the situation where the batteries won't be charged when you need them and you waste time replacing them.
My dad gave me a pair of rechargeable AAs when I was 6 or so for a toy care and I still use them in my TV remote 20 years later. I have bought like 10-20 batteries in my entire life since I've learned it's better to buy one rechargeable AA instead of 20 single use ones. and it saves a lot of trouble because I always have some charged ones laying around, never have to spend time and money picking one up or needing one when stores are closed.
Best way to avoid joystick drift is move to using track pads, I've never had a problem with drift using my steam controller causing I avoid the joystick on it like the plague. It just sucks that the track pads on the Deck are in a bad spot and tiny.
Honestly I use the joystick in my steam controller pretty regularly and have been since about 6 months after they were available for order... I've had no issues and it coming with a cord is really convenient. (About rechargeable batteries mentioned in this video for controller have thin enough AAs does often cost a bit more but it's worth it.)
@@zebedeesummers4413 I've had my SC since it came out and have never noticed a problem with joystick drift (could be because I use the joystick for radial menus and as a dpad and use the left track pad for movement so it doesn't get much use or because the SC joystick was well built). This was more of a comment on just using track pads over joysticks cause you'll never need to worry about drift that way
Rechargeable batteries (NiMh) self discharge over time, so are often not suitable for low power appliances like tv remotes. You would be changing them very often. They also have a lower voltage 1.2v compared to 1.5v of alkaline batteries. This can sometimes mean a device is not getting enough voltage. Eg you need 8 alkaline's to get 12volts, but 10 NiMh to achieve the same.
7:55 Whaaat 😳. I always change the Li-ion batteries when they go bad. There are so many 3rd party options for them as well, so it's easy to get one that fits even when the original isn't available.
They did not work on the machine with the battery plugged in. Unplugging the battery step came only after removing the shield. But the cuts made come up wayyyyyyy earlier than it was supposed to come. It was supposed to come very later
I agree with the AA rechargeable batteries argument. Because, I'm one of those few people who bought rechargeable batteries for my ocuclus rift s. Works fine and it's much easier than going out to the store to buy new batteries. Don't have enough? Take them out of things you don't use often, like VR controllers. I really don't get why people don't just buy rechargeable batteries.
I would love to see a video showing the best rechargeable AA and other traditionally disposable batteries. Or even just a recommendation for a certain kind on WAN Show at some point because admittedly I thought they were poor quality, but that is probably the first gens.
A point on the rechargeable battery take, I use an automated bin/trash can in my kitchen, and the instructions advise to not use rechargeable batteries, and when I did, the product stopped functioning correctly with the motion sensor. It could have been a coincidence, but I feel like someone needs to play devil's advocate as up to that point I would agree that nobody should be using singe use cells.
For the disposable AA Battery, they run on 1.5V instead of the 1.2V for most of the rechargeable ones. Most devices don't really care (for example a controller does not do many things) but for some devices you have little choice. I had to use a TASCAM audio recorder and it was basically impossible to use with 1.2V batteries. The stupid thing takes 4 batteries and eats the 1.2V ones like crazy. Some (mostly older) devices won't work at all with them. Also that whole "add storage space on the back" reminds me of the PSP. There was this ridiculous looking thing that added like a 4GB HDD and a bigger battery to the PSP and it looked stupid as hell.
If you get lithium rechargeable AAs they run at 1.5v. Lots of them have built in usbc so you can recharge them with a phone charger too. They are more expensive then a comparable nickle metal hydride. But they last longer and don't have the memory issues those have as well.
About the joystick drift: I have had several controlers, some of them lastet for decades without difting( PS2 controller, for ex.) and nintendos controller lastest 6 MONTHS when it started drifting. Believe me , Nintendo doesnt get enough hate for the drifting. I have never noticed such severe and early drifting on an controler
@@tiggerbiggo how can people still defend Nintendo after this. Even Microsoft would replace Hardware for free even without receat as they have shown in the Red Ring of Death. Nintendo f uped and The consumer was The one WHO had to bear The concequences. But hey you get Bad emulated games for full price.The switch has Bad wireless connection but so we built in an LAN connection ? And there are many flaws nowadays with Nintendo, considering The price, The quality and there politics towards Hardware and software.
My PS3 controllers still have "fine" (meaning not much worse than I remember) battery life. But the sticks are wobbly as heck. So if they are about to be E-waste, (they are not) it is not because of the battery. But if I ever get around to fix or changing the sticks, I may as well change the battery at the same time. The E-waste problem with disposable batteries where they should not be used though, is that they will both be disposed where they should not and be used where they should not. Game controllers are one of the devices where they should not be used, as that is a relatively quick burn-through. And since they are cheap and "convenient", they will be used. Microsoft could solve this dilemma by simply including the rechargeable kits they actually have with every controller, be it separate ones or with the system. But they don't. So it is obviously not out of environmental or consumer concerns they insist on packing in a couple of non rechargeable E-waste cylinders. WiiU controller also still pretty much as operational as ever. That battery is a bit faster to switch out though.
Keeping a replacement battery on the shelf for when the original one degrades might not be the best idea: the higher-density Li-Ion chemistries have a shelf life (to 80% capacity) on the order of 18-24 months, in addition to cycle life. If Valve really commits to R2R, the battery should be available when actually needed.
Problem ist that most AA Rechargebles are rated for 1,2V and Standard for 1,5V. This difference in Voltage adds up If You have to use more than one Battery.
lmao my xbox one bluetooth controller still works absolutely perfectly, the only slight flaw now is basically that the left joystick covering thing is kinda falling off
To answer the question: I used non-rechargeable batteries on a Wireless Mouse because the rechargeable ones lasted a week or two, while the non-rechargeable lasted months. It was similarly bad for the wireless keyboard, while the non-rechargeable battery lasted literal years, the rechargeable would only last a few months. I think rechargeable batteries are not very good at being spent slowly. Now I just went back to wired so I guess I'm green. But I'd rather have a big bulky device with its own internal battery over anything with removable batteries.
There are low self-discharge rechargeables, and there are high-power rechargeables. Check which one you use. Luke mentions Eneloop Pro: That's an example of a high-power rechargeable: less capacity and higher self-discharge, but capable of powering things like photo flashes.
They could also sell you the controller with rechargeable removable batteries, and make sure you can charge it directly via wire, that would stop the absolute majority form buying single use ones to put in them
They did when I bought mine. I have an Xbox branded battery that fits in the battery slot of my Xbox one controller. It came with the console when I bought it in 2014.
the thing that i hate about AA batteries is that i need to take them out to charge them, i would have 0 issues if a charger was built in but if you can't put a charger on the thing then just give me a replaceable lithium cell instead.
I agree for the most part of rechargeable batteries. I use non rechargeable for my thermostat because rechargeable need to be replaced constantly in it. I got fed up last winter after waking up once every other week because the batteries would die middle of the night. Leaving my house in the 50s. Everything else absolutely rechargeable. I still have 360 controllers that I use and work great
"why would anyone not use rechargeable AA's" because it to much fuckin work i hated using rechargeable batteries, I buy a 50 pack and it lasts me years
Completely agree about the battery part with Linus. I bought a pair of Duracell AA rechargeables 2500mah for like 10-15 euro about 2 years ago. One charge of these lasts as long as a full pack (8pcs) of cheap AA batteries... The cheap batteries are extremely wasteful and so is using controllers with unreplaceable batteries.
I buy disposable batteries because it’s always a maybe with voltage on displosable batteries. I bought a few rechargeable battery and a charging back to use with my new mouse; wouldn’t work. Too low of voltage had to get disposable
In my case it came with the controller that came with the console. I did see some people having an actual battery pack hat clips on the controller and is rechargable. At least it's external but not as versatile as the AA one. Check google image if you want to see what it looks like
I'm so glad he agrees about AA batteries for XBOX controllers. I hate that people treat a built-in battery for Nintendo and PlayStation controllers as a feature. My PS3 controller died because the battery died.
The problem with rechargeable batteries is that you have to buy a charger, some batteries require proprietary charges for example eneloop. I'm guessing that for most, spending money on charger and set of batteries seems excessive when you could just buy some single use batteries for a fraction of the price. The rechargeable batteries also lose capacity after a while, but I agree for remote devices like controllers charging would be needed very seldom.
Joy-Cons are not what I would call hard to repair, and the only special tool you really need is a tri-wing screwdriver because Nintendo are still a bunch of wankers about that. As someone who had never opened a Joy-Con before, I swapped my drifting joystick in under half an hour by following the ifixit guide. Parts are available for cheap on Amazon, or the guaranteed good ones are available on ifixit. Honestly, if Nintendo would recognize those joysticks as the wear items that they are and commit to using their bulk-buying power to make replacements available at minimal cost (along with switching to a ****ing phillips head screw for the casing), I'd have no complaints about the Joy-Cons.
18650 Li-Ion are not really meant for user handling, at least for the real dumbusers (i. e. people that have better things to do than worry about cell chemistries) that product development is targeted at. Also, rechargeable AA and 9V are NiMH, not lead-based. They could integrate a NiMH charger tho, it's not like it's that much more difficult than Li-Ion charging (a bit more difficult due to the need to sense voltage quite precisely to sense the crest point)
NiMH. Nobody's produced NiCd consumer batteries for years: Cadmium is fiercely toxic, and the chemistry itself has cycle life issues. Though admittedly, they used to have higher power density than contemporary NiMH-s
18650 Lithium batteries need to be a *replacable* standard. many electronics already use it but they seal it and glue it into their device. 1.5v AA is just dead, and i will always complain about AA powered devices because 3.7v 18650 needs to replace it. the capacity is bonkers higher, chargers are already ubiquitous, and disposable ones just do not exist. people are flying and crashing them in drones, so don't even dare get on my ass about exploding batteries. also, there are 18650s with BUILT IN BATTERY SAFETIES. TLDR, gtfo with weak ass AAs that you need 3 of to match a single 18650.
8bitdo's controller is better than even Microsoft because they come with what Microsoft calls a play and charge kit instead of having to buy it separately. They are the Hana Montana of controllers you get the best of both worlds.
Oh yeah. I love AA or AAA batteries. I am not too happy that Logitech is reducing their catalog of flagship mouse and gaming mouse with AA batteries. I know weight can be a concern… Performance MX, still strong after 7 years. The chrome accents are coming off due to my acidic hand.
I have Logitech MX Master, used for a few years. It did get yellowed and had to take it apart to clean off the flakes of dust and dried oils that ended up in the mouse wheel sensor and buttons that caused ghost or undetected inputs.
It's amazing how all it took was strong pushes for right to repair over several years and a global shortage of component for companies to finally start making stuff that can be fixed. Every god damn time we never make anything more efficient unless we HAVE TO.
Completely correct on the AA batteries. I've been using a set of 10 pairs of eneloops for anything on batteries, including both my Xbox controllers for years and years. They work amanzingly well. They hold the charge for freaking months. So much better than using fixed batteries.
I think pausing the video every couple of seconds made it worse than it actually was. I mean it was weirdly cut, but if you didn't pause all the time it looked a lot better.
I just don't get the hate for that video from valve, there's honestly nothing wrong with what they said. Some idiot will find a way to kill themselves or burn their house down by opening their steam deck, they are just covering themselves.
Well, my psp put up with being thrown around, I frequently used it on a beach (and had sand get inside many times)... And the thumbstick survived 13 years... Until i broke the "shroom" :(. But it still didn't drift though. Kudos to you sony, you used to be great
even still looks 1000x better than the switch, better games, better performance, no subscription fees, reasonably priced pc games, not £50 indie games because it has the nintendo name, ive got 2 switches which im going to sell both and buy some valve handhelds instead.
I love how Linus is talking about ewaste and the environment when he just came out with a video testing HDMI cables and said a bunch of the cables they have are going to be ewaste. They're very likely still usable, even if they don't match listed spec. The least he could do is give them away to local businesses or see if somebody can use them for basic function. The hypocrisy smh.
luke: "I was looking for a floatplane shoutout"
linus: "............"
luke: "anywho..."
@@sizukayahime6253 no u
It's a good point with Microsoft using standard batteries for their controllers. I hadn't even thought of why they would do that but the sustainability of it makes so much sense. Got a lot more respect for them now, and I'm hoping to see some more companies start doing the same thing with their peripherals
It’s one of the reasons I’ve preferred the XB to PS3-onwards. People shit on MS for the AAs, but honestly makes more sense that ever.
Yeah being able to just put batteries in or have a removable battery pack is so nice. My friends always give me shit for using my old Turtle Beach headset because it takes two AAA batteries. Thing is i've had it since 2013 and the only thing i ever had to do was get new rechargeable AAA's every 2 or 3 years. It still works perfectly. Modularity is a major selling point for me.
Well the main problem is that it's a faff to recharge. Imagine if they let you use the controller to recharge the batteries when you plug it in. that would be cool. You could then replace the batteries when the break so that would be the best solution.
When I say batteries I mean AA batteries btw, not in built ones
@@arunosborn3169 I always buy two sets of batteries so i always have one set charging and the other set in use. Can be annoying in a multiplayer situation but it takes maybe a few seconds longer than when you have to grab a cable. The extra hassle is worth it.
So weird to see the WAN show professionally without like Linus's kids and bed in the background or whatever.
This is how it always was before, except a somewhat less polished set.
@@CharlesVanNoland Eh. I liked the old set better. The black background annoyed me so much on the actual WAN show that I decided to only watch clips.
Only on my phone did I realize the background isn't entirely black.
The best thing about user replaceable parts is that if my product stops working I can just disassemble it and sell it to people who need spare parts.
Salvaging parts to repair things is something we missed for a century...
Good point. I did not even think about this
In radio control transmitters they now have Hall effect sensors instead of potentiometers and they last a lot longer and are much more accurate.
The Sega Dreamcast used Hall Effect sensors for its controllers. However, right now I don't know if it'll cause problems with other signals inside the device to when in use. I will say, it's still vastly superior to the potentiometer joysticks we use today in terms of durability.
@@nikkoa.3639 I knocked one of my Odyssey Plus controllers off of something at some point, and found out that the triggers are hall effect plus spring. For a joystick I don't know, but for other controls a spring and a magnetic sensor will last much longer than a potentiometer. (Reassembled the controller and it was fine. It weirdly just popped the trigger out falling from like a foot.)
My video about hall effect Dreamcast controllers exploded after it got featured on iFixit. And yeah, they have strong longevity for sure.
@@arfink Oh hey it's you! Quite surprising to see
I've seen Thrustmaster Top Gun that Linus mentioned modded with Hall effect sensors.
I agree with the rechargable batteries as well.
It's even more compelling for xbox controllers given the huge amount of third party batteries/chargers which will last a more cycles compared to off the shelf rechargeable batteries
yeah but 18650 is becoming very popular and could be a better replacement to AA batteries(just need to be interchangeable)
@@AndreYoshinoriOta I was thinking that myself, I feel like 18650 cells are rather big for an Xbox controller
@@curtisss it is a lot bigger but considering 18650 energy density, why not use a single cell?
@@AndreYoshinoriOta even a single cell is longer and fatter than 2 AA battery's
I've taken good care of my switch and even transported it in a nice case. Yet despite that all my joycons have drift but one.
I've given up on the joy cons and bought 3rd party controllers for the switch. My joy cons are now only see use on Ring Fit Adventure.
I think the big problem is that Switch joysticks start drifting far sooner than traditional sticks. They will start drifting about 100-500 hours of use. Traditional controller sticks start drifting around 2k-3k hours. (just estimating, not data).
I mean, I barely use my Switch and drift started a year in a half in. At age 12, I played xbox 8-16 hours a day, only had to replace controllers every 3-5 years.
I think that all the latest console controllers have been suffering from early drift, no? I think it was just more talked about with the switch because of how many consoles have been sold.
To be fair, it has more to do with newer controllers in general. My Xbone controller lasted for only 7 months, then the analog became faulty. My brother bought one with bluetooth not working at all. Also I have 7 PS3 original controllers, 5 of them have some issue. And I'm extra careful with controllers, all my friends recognize that. PS1/2 controllers were far more tougher for sure. I still own a perfectly working Dualshock 1 controller, which I used on my PC with a USB adapter for years. Granted, I don't use it anymore, I'm currently using a DS4, and to be honest I don't expect to last much either.
I have to be honest, after seeing the WAN show in its Covid format it’s strange seeing them back in a studio.
The problem between disposable and rechargeable batteries is most of the time the difference between voltage. Disposable are 1.5v and rechatgeable 1.3v. A lot of appliences dont work wit 1.3v batteries
It’s not only that all joysticks fail, but specifically the exact part used in the switch that fails is the exact same part down to the part number from the exact same manufacturer for the ps4, ps5, xbox one, and xbox series x joysticks.
I'd love for rechargeable batteries to be able to be charged by the device they're plugged into like their disposable battery counterparts
Absolutely. I'm disappointed that the Steam controller doesn't do that despite having a USB port. It is not that much extra circuitry.
Okay, and how are they going to detect if the batterys are rechargeable? Thought about that? Because non rechargeable ones typically don't like being charged. You are oversimplifying this issue a bit.
@@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece I was just voicing one of my wishes not architecting how it'd work
In response to Linus' "hot take." Microsoft does not care about the environment. Their position when asked about AA batteries is that they "offer more options" by doing this. AKA batteries or battery packs. The reality, they signed an agreement with Duracell. I've had many AA/AAA rechargeable batteries just stop holding any reasonable charge. My PS3 controllers still hold a healthy charge 15 years later. It's also safe to say that while one person might use rechargeable, others will just grab the quickest option when their controller dies. Whatever is in the drawer, typically. That could very well be just a random AA that will end up going in the bin. Those aren't exactly easy on the planet to manufacture either.
9:21 i agree but i think it would be better if they used like 18650 or something like that and allow you to charge them with usb c connector.
Luke should know, that Eneloop Pro is only "better" in high-current applications. They have higher self-discharge and lower capacity, but also lower internal resistance for high-current applications like photo flashes and quick-charging. They're shit in stuff like clocks, mice and remotes compared to ordinary Eneloop
Potentiometers are bound to stop working, now or later.
When ever I make some sort of project with potentiometers in it, I prefer having some spare.
Anything mechanical will perish from wear alone at some point.
Though it would be great to just get the right measurements when 3D printing replacement mechanical parts using resin or filaments whose mechanical and thermal properties are appropriate to the use case.
God. Thank you for mentioning the controller thing. I have way too many friends who give microsoft hell for the batteries. I got rechargeable batteries in the Xbox 360 era and haven't needed to replace them in 2021.
Meanwhile my PS4 and friends PS4 controllers get maybe 3-4 hours before they need plugged back in. It's so annoying
YES I prefer external batteries waaay over internal. Just have a pack of eneloops and swapping them takes seconds, and it'll last for months before taking mere seconds to "recharge" them again.
Important thing to mention in regards to looking at Valve's previous hardware products: They aren't a hardware company. You can really see this in how their handling of their hardware has progressively gotten better with every product they release. By their own admission they made mistakes with the Index's design that I'm sure will be rectified with their next VR headset, and maybe repair-ability will be one of them, though I will admit that VR headsets and controllers *do* present unique challenges for repairing due to multiple aspects of how they have to be designed. Despite that, however, I will say that the Index controllers are not nearly as difficult to take apart as they could have been. Still not *easy* and I couldn't figure out how to fully disassemble it, and also somehow screwed up the finger tracking in the process, but nothing was glued together or any crap like that.
...if they come through with the next headset model. HTC is a letdown when it comes to any news of their next iteration.
God I miss hearing Luke’s laugh 😂
Long week? 😂
@@typeer yeah hehe
6:40 - I bet it was linus' cat. I took a look at my wifi router the other day and thought.. that definitely used to have 4 antennas, not 3.
I wanted to buy a PS5 controller despite hating the layout just cause the haptic feedback sounds fun but i decided not to because i still dont have drift on my xbox360 controller and its like 6-7 years old at this point and it's compatibility with games is just amazing. All games are plug n play. Once it breaks i'll search for another 360 controller or finally convert to other ones.
Disposable AA battery produces 1.5V when fresh, rechargeable AA battery produces 1.2V when charged. They are not always interchangeable.
9:02 I agree with your point, except for the fact that MS is shipping the controllers with disposable batteries. That's terrible and they totally deserve to take flak for that. By shipping them with disposable ones, they're also adding unnecessary ewaste so it's just as bad as controllers with built-in batteries.
They should ship them with rechargable ones (since you can charge them in the controller).
I just recently bought a new Xbox controller and I don't know what to do with the disposable batteries that came with it. I've been using rechargable batteries for a decade or so and have no use for the disposable ones...
Using standard batteries is mostly fine. The main issue is the hassle of recharging them rather than just being able to put the device on the charger.
That is what my old-style portable phone does. It came with two rechargeable AAA style batteries.
The ideal is a replaceable battery that you can charge from the device. You should always also be able to use a separate charger, but the main thing is that you can just charge the device when you aren't using it without the hassle of removing the batteries and putting them back in.
It just makes for the situation where the batteries won't be charged when you need them and you waste time replacing them.
My dad gave me a pair of rechargeable AAs when I was 6 or so for a toy care and I still use them in my TV remote 20 years later. I have bought like 10-20 batteries in my entire life since I've learned it's better to buy one rechargeable AA instead of 20 single use ones. and it saves a lot of trouble because I always have some charged ones laying around, never have to spend time and money picking one up or needing one when stores are closed.
5:04, it thought my internet disconnected...
Rechargeable batteries are cheap most places, but not everywhere. In my town, a pack of 4 rechargeable AAs is $30 US.
Best way to avoid joystick drift is move to using track pads, I've never had a problem with drift using my steam controller causing I avoid the joystick on it like the plague. It just sucks that the track pads on the Deck are in a bad spot and tiny.
Honestly I use the joystick in my steam controller pretty regularly and have been since about 6 months after they were available for order... I've had no issues and it coming with a cord is really convenient. (About rechargeable batteries mentioned in this video for controller have thin enough AAs does often cost a bit more but it's worth it.)
@@zebedeesummers4413 I've had my SC since it came out and have never noticed a problem with joystick drift (could be because I use the joystick for radial menus and as a dpad and use the left track pad for movement so it doesn't get much use or because the SC joystick was well built). This was more of a comment on just using track pads over joysticks cause you'll never need to worry about drift that way
Rechargeable batteries (NiMh) self discharge over time, so are often not suitable for low power appliances like tv remotes. You would be changing them very often. They also have a lower voltage 1.2v compared to 1.5v of alkaline batteries. This can sometimes mean a device is not getting enough voltage. Eg you need 8 alkaline's to get 12volts, but 10 NiMh to achieve the same.
Yeah, I can't get my rechargeable batteries to work with my trusty old 360 controllers sadly.
7:55 Whaaat 😳. I always change the Li-ion batteries when they go bad. There are so many 3rd party options for them as well, so it's easy to get one that fits even when the original isn't available.
10:45 Oh Luke had some wisdom about this 💯🙂.
@@tkermi The thing is, I do this as well. However unsoldering and resoldering a new battery is way more complex than just changing batteries.
@@tim_goll True! It should be made easier.
They did not work on the machine with the battery plugged in. Unplugging the battery step came only after removing the shield.
But the cuts made come up wayyyyyyy earlier than it was supposed to come. It was supposed to come very later
I just used a 18650 battery to revive my g930 headset that has had two batteries through it.
My Rift S controllers came with single-use batteries. I was honestly shocked.
HAHA my index controllers both are missing their joysticks for the same reason, it's funny to me
i don't think the battery was still plugged in, i think that was the resting position of the cable just, right against where it plugs in
the new wan show setup is dope
Man it's great to see them both together in person again hahaha
Everybody gives nintendo shit for the joycon drift when you litterally get it repaired for free and delivered in under a week
I agree with the AA rechargeable batteries argument. Because, I'm one of those few people who bought rechargeable batteries for my ocuclus rift s. Works fine and it's much easier than going out to the store to buy new batteries. Don't have enough? Take them out of things you don't use often, like VR controllers. I really don't get why people don't just buy rechargeable batteries.
I would love to see a video showing the best rechargeable AA and other traditionally disposable batteries. Or even just a recommendation for a certain kind on WAN Show at some point because admittedly I thought they were poor quality, but that is probably the first gens.
IKEA's batteries are pretty good
Standard rechargeable Duracell batteries. Or eneloop. Great capacity and cycle count.
A point on the rechargeable battery take, I use an automated bin/trash can in my kitchen, and the instructions advise to not use rechargeable batteries, and when I did, the product stopped functioning correctly with the motion sensor. It could have been a coincidence, but I feel like someone needs to play devil's advocate as up to that point I would agree that nobody should be using singe use cells.
For the disposable AA Battery, they run on 1.5V instead of the 1.2V for most of the rechargeable ones. Most devices don't really care (for example a controller does not do many things) but for some devices you have little choice. I had to use a TASCAM audio recorder and it was basically impossible to use with 1.2V batteries. The stupid thing takes 4 batteries and eats the 1.2V ones like crazy. Some (mostly older) devices won't work at all with them.
Also that whole "add storage space on the back" reminds me of the PSP. There was this ridiculous looking thing that added like a 4GB HDD and a bigger battery to the PSP and it looked stupid as hell.
If you get lithium rechargeable AAs they run at 1.5v. Lots of them have built in usbc so you can recharge them with a phone charger too. They are more expensive then a comparable nickle metal hydride. But they last longer and don't have the memory issues those have as well.
I also get similar results using the Tascam dr 60 mk2. It eats batteries as fast as a Game Gear so I just keep it connected to a 5v source
About the joystick drift: I have had several controlers, some of them lastet for decades without difting( PS2 controller, for ex.) and nintendos controller lastest 6 MONTHS when it started drifting. Believe me , Nintendo doesnt get enough hate for the drifting. I have never noticed such severe and early drifting on an controler
Joycons, yes. But it's easy to fix from a user perspective. Hate for an issue that they fixed in a hardware revision anyway, and that takes
@@tiggerbiggo how can people still defend Nintendo after this. Even Microsoft would replace Hardware for free even without receat as they have shown in the Red Ring of Death. Nintendo f uped and The consumer was The one WHO had to bear The concequences. But hey you get Bad emulated games for full price.The switch has Bad wireless connection but so we built in an LAN connection ? And there are many flaws nowadays with Nintendo, considering The price, The quality and there politics towards Hardware and software.
@@Superpole11 I only care about one game on my switch, and the issue takes literally 5 minutes to fix and it costs nothing.
They should make controllers use 18650's or even the 2170 format.
Easy, cheap and they're really easy to swap out...
Yeah, I also like the AAs in the xbox because you can switch them out and get right back to playing wirelessly
My PS3 controllers still have "fine" (meaning not much worse than I remember) battery life. But the sticks are wobbly as heck. So if they are about to be E-waste, (they are not) it is not because of the battery.
But if I ever get around to fix or changing the sticks, I may as well change the battery at the same time.
The E-waste problem with disposable batteries where they should not be used though, is that they will both be disposed where they should not and be used where they should not. Game controllers are one of the devices where they should not be used, as that is a relatively quick burn-through. And since they are cheap and "convenient", they will be used.
Microsoft could solve this dilemma by simply including the rechargeable kits they actually have with every controller, be it separate ones or with the system. But they don't.
So it is obviously not out of environmental or consumer concerns they insist on packing in a couple of non rechargeable E-waste cylinders.
WiiU controller also still pretty much as operational as ever. That battery is a bit faster to switch out though.
All I want from Valve is replacement batteries and joysticks for the Steam Deck. I'll be ordering a replacement battery for mine as soon as I can.
Keeping a replacement battery on the shelf for when the original one degrades might not be the best idea: the higher-density Li-Ion chemistries have a shelf life (to 80% capacity) on the order of 18-24 months, in addition to cycle life. If Valve really commits to R2R, the battery should be available when actually needed.
Problem ist that most AA Rechargebles are rated for 1,2V and Standard for 1,5V. This difference in Voltage adds up If You have to use more than one Battery.
Microsoft should include rechargeable batteries with the controller.
lmao my xbox one bluetooth controller still works absolutely perfectly, the only slight flaw now is basically that the left joystick covering thing is kinda falling off
To answer the question: I used non-rechargeable batteries on a Wireless Mouse because the rechargeable ones lasted a week or two, while the non-rechargeable lasted months. It was similarly bad for the wireless keyboard, while the non-rechargeable battery lasted literal years, the rechargeable would only last a few months. I think rechargeable batteries are not very good at being spent slowly. Now I just went back to wired so I guess I'm green. But I'd rather have a big bulky device with its own internal battery over anything with removable batteries.
There are low self-discharge rechargeables, and there are high-power rechargeables. Check which one you use.
Luke mentions Eneloop Pro: That's an example of a high-power rechargeable: less capacity and higher self-discharge, but capable of powering things like photo flashes.
Index controllers are infamous for drift too.
They could also sell you the controller with rechargeable removable batteries, and make sure you can charge it directly via wire, that would stop the absolute majority form buying single use ones to put in them
They did when I bought mine. I have an Xbox branded battery that fits in the battery slot of my Xbox one controller. It came with the console when I bought it in 2014.
@@nathanielhill8156 is that xbox branded AA or a custom battery?
The wan show is a lot better now goddamn
the thing that i hate about AA batteries is that i need to take them out to charge them, i would have 0 issues if a charger was built in but if you can't put a charger on the thing then just give me a replaceable lithium cell instead.
I agree for the most part of rechargeable batteries. I use non rechargeable for my thermostat because rechargeable need to be replaced constantly in it. I got fed up last winter after waking up once every other week because the batteries would die middle of the night. Leaving my house in the 50s. Everything else absolutely rechargeable. I still have 360 controllers that I use and work great
"why would anyone not use rechargeable AA's" because it to much fuckin work i hated using rechargeable batteries, I buy a 50 pack and it lasts me years
Batteries? I just run my controller via cable.
Completely agree about the battery part with Linus. I bought a pair of Duracell AA rechargeables 2500mah for like 10-15 euro about 2 years ago. One charge of these lasts as long as a full pack (8pcs) of cheap AA batteries... The cheap batteries are extremely wasteful and so is using controllers with unreplaceable batteries.
I buy disposable batteries because it’s always a maybe with voltage on displosable batteries. I bought a few rechargeable battery and a charging back to use with my new mouse; wouldn’t work. Too low of voltage had to get disposable
The issue is that by the time that the index controllers has their battery completely dead, the index will be outdated
The snap at 11:18 sounds familiar....
Wait double a battery fo4 xbox controllers? Where do i buy one xd
In my case it came with the controller that came with the console. I did see some people having an actual battery pack hat clips on the controller and is rechargable. At least it's external but not as versatile as the AA one.
Check google image if you want to see what it looks like
I'm so glad he agrees about AA batteries for XBOX controllers. I hate that people treat a built-in battery for Nintendo and PlayStation controllers as a feature. My PS3 controller died because the battery died.
The problem with rechargeable batteries is that you have to buy a charger, some batteries require proprietary charges for example eneloop. I'm guessing that for most, spending money on charger and set of batteries seems excessive when you could just buy some single use batteries for a fraction of the price. The rechargeable batteries also lose capacity after a while, but I agree for remote devices like controllers charging would be needed very seldom.
i have stuff that takes Battery Packs which is thin and long made out of Plastic
I'm confused, are people really having trouble replacing joycon controllers? Its like 10 bucks for 4 on Amazon and they fix drift
Linus, you can swap potentiometers. Thanks for reading comment. Have fun with repaired controller.
Joy-Cons are not what I would call hard to repair, and the only special tool you really need is a tri-wing screwdriver because Nintendo are still a bunch of wankers about that. As someone who had never opened a Joy-Con before, I swapped my drifting joystick in under half an hour by following the ifixit guide. Parts are available for cheap on Amazon, or the guaranteed good ones are available on ifixit. Honestly, if Nintendo would recognize those joysticks as the wear items that they are and commit to using their bulk-buying power to make replacements available at minimal cost (along with switching to a ****ing phillips head screw for the casing), I'd have no complaints about the Joy-Cons.
Joysticks, SSDs and 'maybe more'. I'm not sure exactly what 'maybe more' entails
And here we are watching a video of two guys discussing a video of one of the guys and another guy discussing a video posted by yet another guy.
They’re in person? : D
or instead of AA batteries, reshape the dang socket for an 18650
About the AA batteries, Microsoft could go with 8bitdo solution, it has support for built-in battery AND AA batteries, it's your choice.
Microsoft should include aa rechargeable batteries with the controller.
or better, use 18650 cells which would last way longer and are always rechargable
18650 seems nicer standardized rechargeable option than the old lead AA or 9V
18650 Li-Ion are not really meant for user handling, at least for the real dumbusers (i. e. people that have better things to do than worry about cell chemistries) that product development is targeted at. Also, rechargeable AA and 9V are NiMH, not lead-based.
They could integrate a NiMH charger tho, it's not like it's that much more difficult than Li-Ion charging (a bit more difficult due to the need to sense voltage quite precisely to sense the crest point)
For everything that doesn't require a high voltage, rechargeable Ni-Cad batteries should be used for higher longevity.
NiMH. Nobody's produced NiCd consumer batteries for years: Cadmium is fiercely toxic, and the chemistry itself has cycle life issues. Though admittedly, they used to have higher power density than contemporary NiMH-s
love MW2 still play every once in awhile i'm old school
Cut the video and recombine it right way. So there are LTT version of this video.
10000% ok with rechargeable AAs. I use my Steam Controller every single day. The battery life is like 5 months.
Beat Luke to pre-ordering the steam deck whoop whoop, Q2 2022 here we come!
They stream in person now? Or it's just good editing
Yea I’m pretty certain they are in person now.
18650 Lithium batteries need to be a *replacable* standard. many electronics already use it but they seal it and glue it into their device. 1.5v AA is just dead, and i will always complain about AA powered devices because 3.7v 18650 needs to replace it.
the capacity is bonkers higher, chargers are already ubiquitous, and disposable ones just do not exist. people are flying and crashing them in drones, so don't even dare get on my ass about exploding batteries. also, there are 18650s with BUILT IN BATTERY SAFETIES. TLDR, gtfo with weak ass AAs that you need 3 of to match a single 18650.
8bitdo's controller is better than even Microsoft because they come with what Microsoft calls a play and charge kit instead of having to buy it separately. They are the Hana Montana of controllers you get the best of both worlds.
Oh yeah. I love AA or AAA batteries.
I am not too happy that Logitech is reducing their catalog of flagship mouse and gaming mouse with AA batteries.
I know weight can be a concern…
Performance MX, still strong after 7 years. The chrome accents are coming off due to my acidic hand.
I have Logitech MX Master, used for a few years. It did get yellowed and had to take it apart to clean off the flakes of dust and dried oils that ended up in the mouse wheel sensor and buttons that caused ghost or undetected inputs.
Man the previous setting was better like they were both at home it looked more comfortable
It's amazing how all it took was strong pushes for right to repair over several years and a global shortage of component for companies to finally start making stuff that can be fixed.
Every god damn time we never make anything more efficient unless we HAVE TO.
I'm seriously tempted to get steam deck as only gaming PC. Is this a mistake?
Completely correct on the AA batteries.
I've been using a set of 10 pairs of eneloops for anything on batteries, including both my Xbox controllers for years and years.
They work amanzingly well. They hold the charge for freaking months. So much better than using fixed batteries.
Battery packs in waste instead of the entire product too
I think pausing the video every couple of seconds made it worse than it actually was. I mean it was weirdly cut, but if you didn't pause all the time it looked a lot better.
has the xbox-controller a charging circuit built in? or do you have to recharge them in a separate charger?
New set is fire
IKEA LADDA batteries represent!
I think Valve should leave teardown videos for more experienced professionals... Many, much more capable, one person YT channels for that.
I just don't get the hate for that video from valve, there's honestly nothing wrong with what they said. Some idiot will find a way to kill themselves or burn their house down by opening their steam deck, they are just covering themselves.
Well, my psp put up with being thrown around, I frequently used it on a beach (and had sand get inside many times)... And the thumbstick survived 13 years... Until i broke the "shroom" :(. But it still didn't drift though. Kudos to you sony, you used to be great
Now it's just a husk lauding Diversity over Talent.
even still looks 1000x better than the switch, better games, better performance, no subscription fees, reasonably priced pc games, not £50 indie games because it has the nintendo name, ive got 2 switches which im going to sell both and buy some valve handhelds instead.
I love how Linus is talking about ewaste and the environment when he just came out with a video testing HDMI cables and said a bunch of the cables they have are going to be ewaste. They're very likely still usable, even if they don't match listed spec. The least he could do is give them away to local businesses or see if somebody can use them for basic function. The hypocrisy smh.
i quit buying rechargeable batteries when i found out 3 of my Devices wont accept them since they don't put out enough Voltage or whatever
you don't have to keep buying rechargable batteries, you can recharge them it's in the name.
(this is a joke, I understand)
@@fwmtbi bought different ones from different to see if they put more