As others have mentioned, the chaos spells (sorcerous burst, chromatic orb) can be cast after you activate innate sorcery to get advantage on the spell attack roll. Synergy!
Excellent video, Tasha's mind whip is such a great spell it should always be picked up by anyone who can. For team work this is second to none making web a much more serious spell , which is already one of the best control spells , top 5 magic items for the 2024 Eldritch knight
@@HerrderGezeiten23 I think it was introduced in Tasha's Cauldron. I think WoTC said everything prior is compatable with 2024 update. 2024 isn't a new version its an update to 5e so its stil 5e.
@ThisCrits I think some Spells from Tashas are in the PHB 2024. This one could be a problem with the 2024 Monsters, most should use reaction vs 2014 legendary Actions. I try too use AL for Charachter chreation, that would mean only 2024 PHB (?)
fun fact at 22 cha (using the tome to give you a +2) you can roll 14d8 if you crit and roll enough 8s with Sorcerous Burst. (could be more depending on the DM. since the extra dice are limited by cha)
I’ve only done it once so far, but I rolled max on an empowered sorcerous burst chained to the maximum I could at the time. 48 damage on a cantrip and one sorcery point felt SO good.
0:30 - Sorcerous Burst (Cantrip) 3:04 - Tasha's Mind Whip (2nd-lv) 4:53 - Immolation (5th-lv) 7:00 - Rime's Binding Ice (2nd-lv) 9:10 - Chromatic Orb (1st-lv) Personal Favorites; 1. Gust of Wind. (2nd-lv) By including yourself, you effectively have a 15-ft shove/jump, as well as a way for allies to move a little faster, & make any creatures walk a little slower to you. Makes eliminating fires, gas, & vapors incredibly easy when paired with your movement. 2. Jump. (1st-lv) Spending 10-ft to jump 30-ft is wild for traversing the world. Twinnable is cheaper than upcast. 3. Message (Cantrip). You're a CHA-based Spellcaster, communication should be your shtick. It got updated by removing Verbal Component in its Spellcasting. 4. Witch Bolt. (1st-lv) It's got a huge glow-up. Almost emperor like. Spell Sniper & Distant Spell for even more range. Seeking Spell for insurance. Said combinations are great for any Spell Attacks. 5. Earth Tremor. (1st-lv) With Distant Spell, you create an even larger difficult terrain (5x5 --> 9x9) that requires 1 min to clean up by hand but essentially lasts forever. It can be quite the menance for roads or stone structures. Pair with Speedy to get out with ease.
Not sure where all this negativity came from, good video. I’m playing Curse of Strahd right now and my sorcerer was able to trivialise a lot of early swarm encounters with a couple Rimes binding ice’s (although I did inadvertently start a fight with the entire population of Valaki by underestimating my damage and overestimating the health of the town guards)
There are D&D players out there who get made at anything that isnt statistically the most efficient option so im not surprised XD I appreciate that you enjoyed the video lol I am a hugeeeeeee fan of Rime's Binding Ice. Its so simple but at the same time so powerful! It sounds like you learned an important lesson in positioning with conal spells hahahaha
Hi! We're mostly on the same page as to the value of Sorcerous Burst and chromatic Orb. Thanks for having done the math for me. :) Tasha's Mind Whip and Rime's Binding Ice are definitely two interesting spells. Twin Spelling Mind Whip is a bargain, but I balk a little at using 2 sorcery points on these save-or-half spells. 2 Sorcery point is just 1 point shy of recovering that 2nd level spellslot for a new cast of that spell (with all the targets in the effect having saves). To me, this wouldn't be a go-to move so much as an option I'd pick if I really needed to maximize my action economy/effectiveness for a very pivotal round. Immolation is a spell I wanted to like, but it's a very low value spell for 5th level. Heighten Spell is kind to it, true, but as others have less gracefully mentioned, it's kind of a turd. If you're targeting a single target damage over time effect, I believe you'll find more synergy in the done-over Phantasmal Killer. That one was improved to have its damage happen instantly on the first save, it's become a save-for-half instead of none, its average of 22 damage rivals once Immolation's 28, especially considering it's a level below. If you upcast, it becomes an average of 27.5, pretty much being in the same ballpark. Not only does this upcast Phantasmal Killer get good mileage out of Heighten Spell, just as you've described, but it also gets mileage out of Empower Spell: it is extremely worth it to reroll underperforming d10s, versus more granular d6s. Also, it targets intelligence saves. Even then, I think Phantasmal Killer/Immolation would be outliers to the many other great value spells you've mentioned. Do I have a better idea to complete your top 5, though? Not really. So, this is where I shut up about it - this is YOUR Top 5 - I just think Immolation is not worth your time. I see the update from the standpoint of a lv13 Divine Soul sorcerer whom has stopped being able to Twincast Heal... but I just learned how to Conjure Celestial. The jury is still out on if I can cope. :D
Very well articulated and appreciated! I agree with everything you said including the immolation mention lol. I want to love the spell and with the new heightened metamagic it gives it a chance but I agree its definitley less value than other spells! I find it a fun alternative which is why I included it :D I was really surprised with how they adjusted the metamagic options honestly. But like you mentioned, the conjure spells all got a masssssssssive improvement in my opinion =p
Great vid but one thing you is it is an attack roll is you can get advantage for a minute and if you crit each 8 rolls 2 extra dice or do to the doubling of damage dice or making more shots with chromatic orb.
Unique set of skill putting them apart from the other classes with their metamagic???? Did you read the other classes? Bard: level 20: Word of creation: basically he can TWIN CAST power word heal and power word kill Druid level 18: cast spell without spell component while in beast form (similar to subtle spell) Ok yes sure those are very high level features ok granted: Warlock of Great old one: level 3 Psychic spell: your warlock enchantement and illusion spell are SUBTLE (no sorcery point cost, all their enchantement and illusion spell are subtle for free) Wizard Evoker: sculpt spell level 3: when you cast a evocation spell it is CAREFULL Wizard Evoker OverChannel level 14: when you cast an spell that deal damage it deal MAX damage which IMHO is a improved EMPOWERED metamagic (yes this one cost you a few hit points) Wizard Illusioninst Improved Illusion level 3: when you cast minor illusion it is QUICKEN SUBTLE and DISTANT. When you cat any other illusion spell it is SUBTLE and DISTANT (no extra cost) Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickers who can HEIGHTENED (at no extra cost) but they require a simple set-up (hit the target with a weapon or cast while being invisible/hidden) If we go in 2014, wizard enchanter at level 14 can TWIN all his enchantement spell (once again no extra cost) In Tasha, Wizard of the Order of Scribe at level 3 can TRANSMUTE is spell (once again no extra cost) And here I just the abilities I remember on top of my head that work really similarly to the metamagic sorcerer have, but many of them have their own and really unique way to modified their spell (and once again with no extra cost) Archfey warlock who can add additional effect to misty step at no extra cost Abjurer wizard who can create a shield when casting abjurations pell (still no extra cost) Diniver who recover a spell slot when he's using a divinitation spell (still no extra cost) Wizard Necromancer and Fiend Warlock who recover HP when he kill they kill targets (still no extra cost) So the only difference unique aspect of the sorcerer metamagic wise is he is not only limited by his spell slot, but also by his sorcerer points....
WoW dude. sorceous burst, chromatic orb and immolation... did you fail elementary school math??? they deal no good damage. If you want to build a efficient single target damage dealer go play a martial. Martial can deal way more single target damage then ANY spells in dnd 5e. Spellcaste rin 5e are buffer and debuffer. Instead of sorcerous burst, grab ray of frost and prevent the target from reaching your allies, or grab Instead of immolation grab wall of fire to split the enemy in 2 smaller groups making them easier to defeat, or grab hold monster to paralyze the target instead. Instead of Chromatic orb grab Sleep. incapacitating the target then putting it unconscious, granting advantage and auto critical hit to your allies.Allowing your team to dealway more damage then Chromatic orb could ever do.
I think it's incredibly disingenuous to say that no spell here can deal good damage. If your going to say that casters can't and should never deal damage were never going to come to an agreement. Both casters and martials can deal a lot of damage, agree to disagree :)
What a narrow way to approach the game. Some situations call for control, some for buffing, some for dealing damage, etc... Being able to participate in each situation has tremendous value. Your arguments (here and in other comments on this very video 🤣) assume ideal conditions in a sad attempt to showcase yourself as someone who understands the game on a deep level. Not for nothing, but you clearly failed elementary school grammar. Take your tiny handkerchief and giant shoes, get back in your tiny car, and drive away.
I think you are really sleeping on how powerful upcasted chromatic orb is: -It's best on Sorcerer because you have innate sorcery to make the attacks at advantage -Unlike Fireball and other AoEs you do not have to worry about friendly fire or worry about getting a clump of enemies together to be worth it -Unlike other AoEs it's not a saving throw and attack roll which are more reliable to hit, especially with the aforementioned advantage -when you upcast it at high levels it's almost guaranteed to bounce even level 4-5(6d8)-(7d8) is generally good enough to get doubles, and even then you can use empowered spell if that unlikely chance concerns you. -You can change the element to bypass resistances -Magic Resistance does not do anything to it -Legendary Resistance doesn't do anything to it. -It can CRIT and you probably will when you hare rolling at advantage on like 5-6 creatures. Like the big downside is if you miss making it stop in it's tracks. But Elven Accuracy if you are an elf, Seeking Spell, or you getting bless through a cleric will help that. I don't know why you are pitting it / comparing it to control spells like sleep, it's pretty much a pseudo-AoE spell meant to do damage to a lot of enemies in a single turn.
@@TheGoldCrow one single choice early on can be a very versatile tool throughout your entire adventuring career. Soooo many sleep on the new Chromatic Orb!
Immolation a must have? lol you are soo funny lol...I will put your channel on "Don't recommend"... bad advice like yours are ridiculous... Her let me educate you. Immolation it"s a concentration spell level 5... you know what other spell I get that uses my concentration and a spell slot level 5? HOLD MONSTER. giving to my ENTIRE party advantage and auto critical hit on the target, so let's compare you initial 8d6 followed by 4d6 fire damage per turn to the rogue, the paladin and the cleric (who no longer need to heal since the target is paralyze so deal 0 damage) having free advantage (so no need to uses resource like vow of enmity for the paladin or a bonus action to steady aim for the rogue) and get free guarantee critical hit. I wonder which of the 2 options allow the party to deal more damage? And Hold mosnter also require a saving throw each turn, and heightened spell change in 2024 also make it much better, AND it is still twinnable even with 2024 twinned spell change. And if fire damage is what you REALLY want, then take wall of fire, a concentration spell, level 4 (so lower level ) that deal 5d8 damage every round and you can sculpt it to your need, making it way more versatile. And wall of fire ALSO benefit from heightened spell new wording. Imolation remain a BAD spell, that should jus the deleted since it's a trap choice for idiots
No reason to be so rude about everything. I don't know why your comparing the raw output of the sorcerer to a martial class that has gaurenteed critical hits. Of course they will deal more damage. The entire argument you created hinges on specific situation in which those martials find themselves attacking a paralyzed target. Its incredibly disigenuous and circumvents the entire purpose of the video, have fun. Yea, Immolation isn't the best or most efficient spell, but with the metamagic changes it made it much easier to use and more reliable which is fun. Why is that bad and why does it require you to be so rude? EIther way, I wish you luck. And thanks for the free education :) I will be expecting my big red nose and clown shoes in the mail soon after that clown course!
As others have mentioned, the chaos spells (sorcerous burst, chromatic orb) can be cast after you activate innate sorcery to get advantage on the spell attack roll. Synergy!
I totally forgot about that. It makes it so much more powerful hahaha
Yeah... that cantrip is bananas. 🙂 Great video and lots of food for thought!
ABSOLUTELY 🍌
Excellent video, Tasha's mind whip is such a great spell it should always be picked up by anyone who can. For team work this is second to none making web a much more serious spell , which is already one of the best control spells , top 5 magic items for the 2024 Eldritch knight
Agreed! These videos are always hard to make narrowing choices down to 5 lol
oh 2024 no Tasha`s mind whip only in 5e 😒
@@HerrderGezeiten23 I think it was introduced in Tasha's Cauldron. I think WoTC said everything prior is compatable with 2024 update. 2024 isn't a new version its an update to 5e so its stil 5e.
@ThisCrits I think some Spells from Tashas are in the PHB 2024.
This one could be a problem with the 2024 Monsters, most should use reaction vs 2014 legendary Actions.
I try too use AL for Charachter chreation, that would mean only 2024 PHB (?)
fun fact at 22 cha (using the tome to give you a +2) you can roll 14d8 if you crit and roll enough 8s with Sorcerous Burst. (could be more depending on the DM. since the extra dice are limited by cha)
As statistically Improbable as that may be, it is indeed a fun fact hahahaha
I’ve only done it once so far, but I rolled max on an empowered sorcerous burst chained to the maximum I could at the time. 48 damage on a cantrip and one sorcery point felt SO good.
Thats a crazy amount of damage hahah
0:30 - Sorcerous Burst (Cantrip)
3:04 - Tasha's Mind Whip (2nd-lv)
4:53 - Immolation (5th-lv)
7:00 - Rime's Binding Ice (2nd-lv)
9:10 - Chromatic Orb (1st-lv)
Personal Favorites;
1. Gust of Wind. (2nd-lv) By including yourself, you effectively have a 15-ft shove/jump, as well as a way for allies to move a little faster, & make any creatures walk a little slower to you. Makes eliminating fires, gas, & vapors incredibly easy when paired with your movement.
2. Jump. (1st-lv) Spending 10-ft to jump 30-ft is wild for traversing the world. Twinnable is cheaper than upcast.
3. Message (Cantrip). You're a CHA-based Spellcaster, communication should be your shtick. It got updated by removing Verbal Component in its Spellcasting.
4. Witch Bolt. (1st-lv) It's got a huge glow-up. Almost emperor like. Spell Sniper & Distant Spell for even more range. Seeking Spell for insurance. Said combinations are great for any Spell Attacks.
5. Earth Tremor. (1st-lv) With Distant Spell, you create an even larger difficult terrain (5x5 --> 9x9) that requires 1 min to clean up by hand but essentially lasts forever. It can be quite the menance for roads or stone structures. Pair with Speedy to get out with ease.
Not sure where all this negativity came from, good video. I’m playing Curse of Strahd right now and my sorcerer was able to trivialise a lot of early swarm encounters with a couple Rimes binding ice’s (although I did inadvertently start a fight with the entire population of Valaki by underestimating my damage and overestimating the health of the town guards)
There are D&D players out there who get made at anything that isnt statistically the most efficient option so im not surprised XD I appreciate that you enjoyed the video lol
I am a hugeeeeeee fan of Rime's Binding Ice. Its so simple but at the same time so powerful! It sounds like you learned an important lesson in positioning with conal spells hahahaha
Hi!
We're mostly on the same page as to the value of Sorcerous Burst and chromatic Orb. Thanks for having done the math for me. :)
Tasha's Mind Whip and Rime's Binding Ice are definitely two interesting spells. Twin Spelling Mind Whip is a bargain, but I balk a little at using 2 sorcery points on these save-or-half spells. 2 Sorcery point is just 1 point shy of recovering that 2nd level spellslot for a new cast of that spell (with all the targets in the effect having saves). To me, this wouldn't be a go-to move so much as an option I'd pick if I really needed to maximize my action economy/effectiveness for a very pivotal round.
Immolation is a spell I wanted to like, but it's a very low value spell for 5th level. Heighten Spell is kind to it, true, but as others have less gracefully mentioned, it's kind of a turd. If you're targeting a single target damage over time effect, I believe you'll find more synergy in the done-over Phantasmal Killer. That one was improved to have its damage happen instantly on the first save, it's become a save-for-half instead of none, its average of 22 damage rivals once Immolation's 28, especially considering it's a level below. If you upcast, it becomes an average of 27.5, pretty much being in the same ballpark.
Not only does this upcast Phantasmal Killer get good mileage out of Heighten Spell, just as you've described, but it also gets mileage out of Empower Spell: it is extremely worth it to reroll underperforming d10s, versus more granular d6s. Also, it targets intelligence saves.
Even then, I think Phantasmal Killer/Immolation would be outliers to the many other great value spells you've mentioned. Do I have a better idea to complete your top 5, though?
Not really. So, this is where I shut up about it - this is YOUR Top 5 - I just think Immolation is not worth your time.
I see the update from the standpoint of a lv13 Divine Soul sorcerer whom has stopped being able to Twincast Heal... but I just learned how to Conjure Celestial. The jury is still out on if I can cope. :D
Very well articulated and appreciated!
I agree with everything you said including the immolation mention lol. I want to love the spell and with the new heightened metamagic it gives it a chance but I agree its definitley less value than other spells! I find it a fun alternative which is why I included it :D
I was really surprised with how they adjusted the metamagic options honestly. But like you mentioned, the conjure spells all got a masssssssssive improvement in my opinion =p
Great vid but one thing you is it is an attack roll is you can get advantage for a minute and if you crit each 8 rolls 2 extra dice or do to the doubling of damage dice or making more shots with chromatic orb.
Good point! I never mentioned that!
Unique set of skill putting them apart from the other classes with their metamagic????
Did you read the other classes?
Bard: level 20: Word of creation: basically he can TWIN CAST power word heal and power word kill
Druid level 18: cast spell without spell component while in beast form (similar to subtle spell)
Ok yes sure those are very high level features ok granted:
Warlock of Great old one: level 3 Psychic spell: your warlock enchantement and illusion spell are SUBTLE (no sorcery point cost, all their enchantement and illusion spell are subtle for free)
Wizard Evoker: sculpt spell level 3: when you cast a evocation spell it is CAREFULL
Wizard Evoker OverChannel level 14: when you cast an spell that deal damage it deal MAX damage which IMHO is a improved EMPOWERED metamagic (yes this one cost you a few hit points)
Wizard Illusioninst Improved Illusion level 3: when you cast minor illusion it is QUICKEN SUBTLE and DISTANT. When you cat any other illusion spell it is SUBTLE and DISTANT (no extra cost)
Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickers who can HEIGHTENED (at no extra cost) but they require a simple set-up (hit the target with a weapon or cast while being invisible/hidden)
If we go in 2014, wizard enchanter at level 14 can TWIN all his enchantement spell (once again no extra cost)
In Tasha, Wizard of the Order of Scribe at level 3 can TRANSMUTE is spell (once again no extra cost)
And here I just the abilities I remember on top of my head that work really similarly to the metamagic sorcerer have, but many of them have their own and really unique way to modified their spell (and once again with no extra cost)
Archfey warlock who can add additional effect to misty step at no extra cost
Abjurer wizard who can create a shield when casting abjurations pell (still no extra cost)
Diniver who recover a spell slot when he's using a divinitation spell (still no extra cost)
Wizard Necromancer and Fiend Warlock who recover HP when he kill they kill targets (still no extra cost)
So the only difference unique aspect of the sorcerer metamagic wise is he is not only limited by his spell slot, but also by his sorcerer points....
So a class that can do all of those at Level 3 isn't unique in your eyes?????
Other classes do fancy stuff with spells = sorcerer is not unique
Okay lmao
Chromatic orb costs 50 gold to cast. It's a great spell you'll never use.
The component costs 50gp but is not consumed by the casting of the spell so you have it forever, so it’s a one time purchase.
The 50G diamon isnt consumed on cast :D
WoW dude. sorceous burst, chromatic orb and immolation... did you fail elementary school math??? they deal no good damage. If you want to build a efficient single target damage dealer go play a martial. Martial can deal way more single target damage then ANY spells in dnd 5e.
Spellcaste rin 5e are buffer and debuffer.
Instead of sorcerous burst, grab ray of frost and prevent the target from reaching your allies, or grab
Instead of immolation grab wall of fire to split the enemy in 2 smaller groups making them easier to defeat, or grab hold monster to paralyze the target instead.
Instead of Chromatic orb grab Sleep. incapacitating the target then putting it unconscious, granting advantage and auto critical hit to your allies.Allowing your team to dealway more damage then Chromatic orb could ever do.
I think it's incredibly disingenuous to say that no spell here can deal good damage. If your going to say that casters can't and should never deal damage were never going to come to an agreement. Both casters and martials can deal a lot of damage, agree to disagree :)
What a narrow way to approach the game. Some situations call for control, some for buffing, some for dealing damage, etc... Being able to participate in each situation has tremendous value. Your arguments (here and in other comments on this very video 🤣) assume ideal conditions in a sad attempt to showcase yourself as someone who understands the game on a deep level.
Not for nothing, but you clearly failed elementary school grammar. Take your tiny handkerchief and giant shoes, get back in your tiny car, and drive away.
I think you are really sleeping on how powerful upcasted chromatic orb is:
-It's best on Sorcerer because you have innate sorcery to make the attacks at advantage
-Unlike Fireball and other AoEs you do not have to worry about friendly fire or worry about getting a clump of enemies together to be worth it
-Unlike other AoEs it's not a saving throw and attack roll which are more reliable to hit, especially with the aforementioned advantage
-when you upcast it at high levels it's almost guaranteed to bounce even level 4-5(6d8)-(7d8) is generally good enough to get doubles, and even then you can use empowered spell if that unlikely chance concerns you.
-You can change the element to bypass resistances
-Magic Resistance does not do anything to it
-Legendary Resistance doesn't do anything to it.
-It can CRIT and you probably will when you hare rolling at advantage on like 5-6 creatures.
Like the big downside is if you miss making it stop in it's tracks. But Elven Accuracy if you are an elf, Seeking Spell, or you getting bless through a cleric will help that. I don't know why you are pitting it / comparing it to control spells like sleep, it's pretty much a pseudo-AoE spell meant to do damage to a lot of enemies in a single turn.
@@TheGoldCrow one single choice early on can be a very versatile tool throughout your entire adventuring career. Soooo many sleep on the new Chromatic Orb!
Immolation a must have? lol you are soo funny lol...I will put your channel on "Don't recommend"... bad advice like yours are ridiculous... Her let me educate you. Immolation it"s a concentration spell level 5... you know what other spell I get that uses my concentration and a spell slot level 5? HOLD MONSTER. giving to my ENTIRE party advantage and auto critical hit on the target, so let's compare you initial 8d6 followed by 4d6 fire damage per turn to the rogue, the paladin and the cleric (who no longer need to heal since the target is paralyze so deal 0 damage) having free advantage (so no need to uses resource like vow of enmity for the paladin or a bonus action to steady aim for the rogue) and get free guarantee critical hit. I wonder which of the 2 options allow the party to deal more damage?
And Hold mosnter also require a saving throw each turn, and heightened spell change in 2024 also make it much better, AND it is still twinnable even with 2024 twinned spell change.
And if fire damage is what you REALLY want, then take wall of fire, a concentration spell, level 4 (so lower level ) that deal 5d8 damage every round and you can sculpt it to your need, making it way more versatile. And wall of fire ALSO benefit from heightened spell new wording.
Imolation remain a BAD spell, that should jus the deleted since it's a trap choice for idiots
No reason to be so rude about everything. I don't know why your comparing the raw output of the sorcerer to a martial class that has gaurenteed critical hits. Of course they will deal more damage. The entire argument you created hinges on specific situation in which those martials find themselves attacking a paralyzed target. Its incredibly disigenuous and circumvents the entire purpose of the video, have fun.
Yea, Immolation isn't the best or most efficient spell, but with the metamagic changes it made it much easier to use and more reliable which is fun. Why is that bad and why does it require you to be so rude?
EIther way, I wish you luck. And thanks for the free education :) I will be expecting my big red nose and clown shoes in the mail soon after that clown course!
"This lvl5 sucks because it deals less damage than the entire party combined does"
Okay lmao
@@panmanteca5923 Right?
@@panmanteca5923 THIS. Ideal conditions can make anything look better than it is.