When they announced this would be set only 100 years before Episode I, I got nervous. Lucasfilm under Kennedy just cannot be trusted with the lore. And that is too close to the lore for them to not mess it up. They have burned through all their chances. Just because they call it Star Wars doesn't matter.
@achaudhari101 If you don't think they screwed around with the lore, then you clearly do not actually know the lore of Star Wars. They did and they have on all of their SW projects with the exception of Rogue 1, Mando season 1-2, and Andor. Yes they screwed with the lore in the Ashoka show. And the entire concept of the OB1 show was screwing with the established lore.
Hey Thor. When it comes to Star Wars, do you believe ignorance is bliss? I have chosen to believe Star Wars is the great fantasy entertaining escape I've loved for more than 35 years of my life.
There are good fanfics that are written out of passion, there are bad fanfics that are written out of passion, and then there are the fanfics that you write because you want to say something and want to use a popular franchise to get that done. At least with the first two, you can see the passion and the intent behind them, making love letters to the original media. With the last one, they're most often dry and bland. This is a textbook example of that last type.
This is not fanfiction. It's obvious that they aren't fans of star wars. They don't care for the lore, they don't care for the overarching themes. They used the brand to make cash and the lack of effort, skill and passion is blatantly obvious.
I don’t even think it was the Jedi being flawed, it really only came down to 2 Jedi that instigated a lot of the issues , the Jedi council even told them to leave the witches alone
Indara’s cold indifference and her reusing the same empty platitude to Sol was her flaw, which was portrayed well in my opinion. Like Indara and Sol are the only characters in the show that have made me feel any emotion other than confusion.
@@cedricroney1475 they are still just one group within the Jedi order, but I don’t think the acting Master Jedi so readily suggests “coverup” and everyone just kinda goes along with it doesn’t speak volumes to how the order is portrayed. So yes, the Jedi are being portrayed as flawed.
What’s really odd now, is that I cannot even fathom why he had to be in the show at all. Unless he has a role in the last episode why tear him and screw with lore in the first place.
She in that interview is giving me strong vibes of her doing a damage control, either by her own efforts, or more likely, by request of LucasFilm, but that's just my small bit of speculation based on feelings.
@@mihailos8701 Most definitely. She (and Disney) have moved from hyping-up the series, to deflecting negative signals, to changing the narrative (using engagement as a success metric instead of viewership) and doing damage control. They had high hopes The Acolyte would help them re-engage their audience, but they are seeing quite the opposite. It will not sell any toys nor help them gain momentum.
I will never understand why Disney didn't just start a hundred years after the OT and build their own lore. (Aside from the writers being talentless, creatively bankrupt hacks.) The only reason I can see is they wanted to destroy all the original content, on purpose. Eh. Is what it is I guess...
Because they know that it's those original stories that people care about. If they sever ties from them too much, they lose the obvious inroad to the fans of the show. They just don't understand the material and aren't hiring very good writers...they're not the Legion of Doom, sitting in a big Darth Vader helmet in the swamp and cackling about how "This next Disney+ series will DESTROY Star Wars! Bwuhahahaha!"
By buying it from Lucas they solidified that his star wars would never die because everything can be labeled as before disney after Before disney will always be great
The actor is bailing from Star Wars as he found out his character is getting replaced for a 'better' character. So I doubt that Mando movie is going to be any good.
@@achaudhari101 People in entertainment literally lie all the time. Not saying Yoda WILL be in it, but your reasoning is absurd, given how much people just lie.
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 she’s the show runner. If she wasn’t actively working with and overseeing the other writers that is a huge mistake. Either way, whether she oversaw it or closed her eyes while others finished it, it led to a terribly written show in my opinion.
@@IzzosPlace Coming from the company that thought handing the sequel trilogy off to a different director each movie, I wouldnt be surprised All im saying is that if JJ did all three movies it would be for the better. If Rian Johnson did all three movies it would be for the better
Best part about this show is that many Star Wars fans lost faith in Disney Star Wars...they finally see the light. Only shows Disney did right are Rogue One, Mandalorian season 1&2 ... I even liked Solo( Haven't watched Andor yet) After they fired Gina for BS I was done n gald to see many others see it now. Stop consuming "product " otherwise nothing will change...
Do yourself a favor and watch Andor after this joke ends next week. It is slow burn, but by the end, you will be in love. Heavy Rogue One style. 2 of the best Star Wars speeches ever.
The difference between the show we got and its premise as it was pitched are bafflingly different. It was supposed to be a murder mystery and yet I don’t think we’ve ever not known who the murderer has been. It was supposed to show things from the sith perspective and I think episode 6 was the only time we heard a little bit of dark side philosophy from someone who might not even be a mainline Sith Lord. After every episode Headland has been giving interviews that shows she has a completely different view of what this show is and isn’t showing. It is funny to think that someone was worried the show might be written too well tho
George Lucas taught us about the Force, the Jedi and the Old Republic through the testimony and conduct of Obi-Wan and Yoda. These two survivors had no wealth or privilege, but had no resentment. Rather, they lived with dignity, patience, good humor and a productive, hopeful purpose. When these two chaps talked about the Force and the Jedi who once served it, they did it with such humble reverence that we could see at once that the Force is good, and the Jedi were good. No doubt imperfect, but good, and we gathered that the Republic that they protected was also good, and whatever flaws it must have had, it was a more civilized age. Their power and skill and virtue established, the story of their fall became extremely meaningful. It made the Sith and the Empire that overthrew them seem all the more competent and dangerous. What was wrong was clear, and what was right was clear. I think this is what made the story of Star Wars so important to so many people for so long. The modern trend of deconstructing heroes and history until they blur into shades of gray, has weakened the meaning of the Star Wars story, with a predictable loss of audience affection, especially among its most devoted fans.
I'm shocked I tell you, shocked that the same Jedi who left the Nightsisters of Dathomir to their own devices would also be fine with leaving another bunch of wacky space witches alone. Unprecedented.
That's because the Nightsisters hid themselves among the clans of Dathomir. They weren't practicing openly the way you see in TCW. That's just Filoni watering down a complex mythos. It's what he does.
Hi Thor, long time follower. I appreciate your even-handed coverage of Star Wars, keep up the good work. In my view, there is a moral divide in the fandom: the side that believes in good and evil, and the side that thinks good and evil are "a point of view". Those are opposing beliefs that can't coexist. According to George Lucas, the first six films are his philosophy: the light side is compassion, the dark side is selfishness and greed. In other words, the core of the Force is a lesson about morality. Lucas also believes that goodness is to resist temptation, give up quick pleasures and live for something bigger than ourselves. The Jedi represent classic heroism: self-sacrifice for the greater good. That said, I understand why part of the fandom wants to see the Jedi as morally dubious; denying our passions to take the high road is very difficult to do. So instead of seeing the Jedi as role models, it's more comforting to pretend they're no better than the rest of us; that they just throw their weight around because they can. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that Leslye Headland-a relativist who avoids even saying the word "evil"-identifies so much with the Sith. Even if she had real talent, and The Acolyte was technically well written, her worldview is fundamentally anti-Star Wars.
The sad part is that there is potentially an interesting idea here: what happens when the high ideals of the Jedi at their best runs head first into a political situation? For example: a caste of workers on Kuat (for those who don't remember, Kuat has a caste system and people are born into their social caste with the high families ruling from orbit or family estates while the lowest castes are basically slaves) decides they don't like their lot in life and rebel against the high born families. They rebel, and this causes the famous Kuat drive yards to grind to a halt. The rebels call for help from their exalted protectors of peace and justice to assist them in their fight for freedom while the high families lean on their political contacts and make it clear that sedition will not be tolerated. What do the Jedi do? Maybe the Senate, including the Kuati senators, is considering a funding bill for the Jedi? Maybe the Jedi, on a completely unrelated mission, get pulled into the conflict with rumors of Jedi on the surface of Kuat causing a political scandal? I think that's a potentially very interesting story that touches on the themes of politics versus ethics and pragmatism versus idealism.
I like this. I'd also like to see what more politically detached writers could come up with, reflecting on the current state of politics and geopolitics as a whole.
This is the kinda story we used to get in the clone wars show. Clearly this kind of story is able to be told without just trying to make the Jedi out to be terrible like this show does.
already 10 times more interesting than this. But there is one problem that many are completely forgetting... THIS SHOW IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT THE SITH LMAO. That's how badly they blew this. It's just another jedi show hahaha
I have seen animated music videos on UA-cam created by fans using cut scenes from Knights of the Old Republic that have more story and better storytelling then this show.
I honestly think the show would have been better if it committed to one of the two major story lines. Either be about searching for the vergence or finding the jedi killer. Eight episodes just doesn't seem like enough time for both.
Weirdly it feels very stretched to me (short episodes and all) and yet hasn’t dived into anything with any depth. I still feel like I barely know most of the characters.
@@Paul_McSeol The show is simultaneously stretched wafer thin, but also overstuffed and bloated with storylines going nowhere. A Jedi killer, a secret Sith, a dark secret, Force super twins...too much. Too much stuff the show is just leaving hanging all over the place and yet every episode feels like too little material stretched too thin. What is this show even about? Who are the main characters? What is the main plot?
The vergence thing seems like it could have been worked out in a few hours with a competent Jedi Master. You know by doing what Jedis do, and feel the force.
Her little own Fan Fiction -- yes, that is exactly what Headland achieved. Of course she probably is not done yet, she'll want a season 2 and no doubt will explore Qimir. What I find humorous is Qimir saying that he wants Freedom to do whatever he wants. He was living for years under the radar before he confronted the Jedi for unclear reasons. Unless he was wanting to be Palpatine and rule the universe or butcher people for fun, he basically had that freedom to begin with. The Jedi didn't know who he was or what he was. Now some people are saying that he was a darkside user that wasn't consumed by the dark side, and/or that the witches were also darkside users that were able to dabble and stay decent people (though how the witches acted in this last episode seems to show them much more sinister). My big question is this: In Lucas-made Star Wars, we see that embracing the darkside leads to a paranoid, power-hungry life that almost always ends badly. They don't trust anyone, they are obsessed with power (or revenge, dark knowledge or similar things). I don't see how it would be possible for someone embracing the darkside -- as a Sith, Witch, Nightsister or whatever-- to ever have anything meaningful and long lasting in their lives without constantly fearing betrayal, assassination or rival powers overwhelming them. The 'bad guys' in most fictional series (Star Wars or otherwise) always seem to be very unrealistic in their goals. Power, control, revenge, forbidden knowledge, wealth -- these are usually the motivations presented. But in the real world, the 'bad guys' usually want some of the same things like normal people. They may love their families and trust them, they may be devoted to their nation or their cause, they may love fine art or music -- they don't usually just do their evil for only power, control, revenge, forbidden knowledge or wealth. In SW, most of the 'bad guys' we see are Sith or darkside users and yet most of them seem only focused on the 'big 5' motivations I listed above. We see Palpatine at the Opera, but we never see him ever enjoying anything other than being cruel. Yet this works, as, like Thor has said at this channel, that is how the darkside of the Force perverts an individual. Then, in the Acolyte, we are presented with the mysterious Qimir. A darkside user -- is he a Sith? A disgruntled former Jedi? A minion of another powerful darksider? Who knows; but we see him all serene and controlled when he is talking to Osha about wanting Freedom. Yet just like Palpatine, Maul and Vader, we don't see him really living or enjoying anything. Instead, he seems almost desperate for a disciple. He lives in a friggin' cave with minimal stuff like a monk. He talks about Freedom, doesn't realize that with the exception of extreme actions, he had that freedom already, and he still seems miserable. Serene, but miserable. Really, he isn't any different than the other Sith at the core. I just don't see why so many of those that actually love the Acolyte think that Qimir is so different and enlightened. He sure doesn't seem to be enjoying his life, he's merely accepted it. Like most evil in SW, he doesn't know actually how to live other than focusing on some of the 'big 5' motivations that nearly all the 'bad guys' in SW follow. Dryden Vos in Solo is about the only villain in SW that actually seems to enjoy things other than the 'big 5', but even that wasn't enough to enrich his life for long. It would be nice to see a SW villain that did have some 'normal' loves or interests. Thrawn may be another one, but he's so different in the books than he is in the series that it is hard to even think of both mediums showing the same man. Timothy Zahn's character building of Thrawn could have made him a deeper, more sympathetic villain, but sadly Filoni seems bent on making him much more flat and cookie-cutter in his motivations.
Hey Thor, why is Disney and Lucasfilm so Hell-Bent to label us fans with such ridiculous words that end's with an "ist" and then they claimed we're threatened by female leads and diverse cast? When I look at Rogue One, Andor, House Of The Dragon, Cobra Kai, and so on, they had really high scores by the audience themselves. I literally grew up with female characters and diverse cast during the Disney Renaissance and the prequel trilogy era where storytelling was the main focus and the characters were actually well written and inspiring. And now all of the sudden, we're being labeled as some scum of the world for not endorsing poorly written female characters in poorly written movies and shows. What are your thoughts?
I think a lot of it is the erosion of gender norms coinciding with the new age feminist revolution. We always longed for female role-models to take center stage, but when we finally get an era that is trying to push this they are also pushing these feminine leads as either generic masculine leads that seem somewhat less genuine, or the entire cast seems so fluid the feminine leads don't really have the option to be less masculine by comparison, then where they do actively show feminine qualities they lack enough male pushback in the writers room so everything always works out only from their perspective and anything the male cast does tends to be unquestionably "wrong".
This is how I see it. I believe it's a way of deflecting criticism. The higher-ups in Hollywood don't want to take responsibility for poor decision-making. Doing so would possibly tarnish their status/ reputation. In an attempt to pass the buck, they lose support of their target audience.
My daughter and I have been watching this show, and every week when it ends we just kind of look at each other and shrug. What is this show about? What does it add to the story of Star Wars? I think that's the real mystery central to this story: how does it expand and enrich the Galaxy Far, Far Away? It must be, coz I ponder on it every week, and I'm stumped 😒
The finale is going to be a massive payoff! We will get long-awaited answers to an incredible mystery, while also building a larger mystery that fits perfectly within canon and… who am I kidding, it’s gonna be a massive flop.
It's somewhat like Rings of Power. The people behind the show chose an era not previously covered well and made up a bunch of stuff that doesn't feel at all like the real thing.
The Acolyte seems to suffer from the same issues as Amazon's Ring of Powers. While both shows are based on long-standing franchises, the showrunners do not understand the source material and try to inject contemporary ideas and deconstruct heroic characters. I have a feeling the final episode will end on Brendok.
It flat-out shocks me when people are like "but Andor doesn't FEEL like Star Wars" and then they proceed to try and defend this mess of a show as if it is somehow more Star Wars due to its inclusion of Jedi and lightsabers. Acolyte is a mystery plot with no exciting or satisfying answers, tension, or direction. I feel like the writers have no idea what's going on, and as a result I'm so unsure as to what the message is they're trying to impart here. Like, this feels like a bad fan-fiction from people who have no clear understanding of the core themes of Star Wars and why it's such an interesting universe for so many different kinds of stories.
@thekeccles1996 I saw a comment that sums it up nicely that said this show feel like it was written last min by a group of people who don't work together and someone forgot to connect the stories
@@mazkeraid4039You personally might not like Andor but it unquestionably is a show that many fans enjoyed and brought new people in to watching Star wars
@@neutronstarpilot4393 If I want to see an adult themed Star Wars, I look elsewhere. Also, nobody likes Kyle Katarn knockoff with no development. The show is called Andor, yet it is about as captivating as Geode from The High Republic series.
@mazkeraid4039 It's cool if you don't like Andor, Not everyone is going to like everything and I wouldn't expect them to But you are in the minority on this one.
"It doesn't take much for evil to win." This! Exactly this! That's why George's Star Wars message and films are so resonant. A foundational, universal truth for humanity presented in an entertaining allegory.
There is still one episode more to go, so they could still do something awful... But, if it all ends just as far as the past 7 episodes have been, I feel relieved... but that is really, really sad... the fact that, as fans, we feel relieved for saying "yay! It didn't shit all over the franchise! It *only* was completely mediocre!"
What i think we should’ve had is simply a series explaining how we get from high republic and “height of the jedi” to prequel era and “there’s no way the sith could’ve returned without us knowing” Rather than make a failure murder mystery show set in a -scifi- Star Wars universe. How about just make a show that connects your audience to more of your own media and reinvest in the franchise. Telling non relating and weird concept shows just cause you want to probably isnt the best move for an IP that is losing money.
Normally, I would make a comment to add on to what you said, or expand upon a topic, but I think you perfectly hit the nail on the head here so there's nothing I can add 👍
I love that you basically said "I was worried that it would be well-written, but it makes no sense so we're good." At least, that's kinda what I got out of this video. 😆
They teased this show so much as a mystery, and yet the answers we need (along with a novel of questions about the show) makes this show more of a mystery on WHY it was cleared to film in the first place. I hope they stay away from Disney+ shows while they work on the upcoming movies
"The Acolyte" wasn't what I thought it might be (And that's a good thing) That is like saying the diarrhea wasn't that bad and that's a good thing... No it's still a bad thing... Now to watch the video and Give Thor a thumbs up for watching and trying as always to be evenhanded in his review.
the jebait of the video title making you think that the show turned out good, but instead thor was actually worried that the show might be good, and glad that its bad.. lmao
Russian Doll season 1 is good. Season 2 not so much. That’s why I was ok with her writing Acolyte, I thought that was good so maybe this would be good. Nope.
This show actually defied any previous idea as to how terrible a story set within the Star Wars universe could be. And this will have serious consequences going forward for Disney. From now on, I won't watch anything made under the Disney Star Wars label firsthand unless it's deemed as watchable, or its made by Tony Gilroy. Disney has completely ruined any reputation that it may have had previously.
Bob Iger is that snake that botches every project around. Kathleen Kennedy is incredibly incompetent at her job, Kevin Feige... hoy! I hate to say it, Tony Gilroy is a decent writer, but not a good writer for Star Wars, plain and simple.
Thor, I think it would benefit you to recognize the difference between the ideal of the jedi and what we are shiwn the jedi have becomd in the prequels and the shows. We can see the idea of the jedi as a firce fir giid in the universe, while still seeing that some of their dogma is inherently flawed and the order was corrupt in its own way. I mean, we see Obi-Wan and Yoda continuing to preach their views in the OT, and it is Luke saves up the galaxy by proving them wrong. They were wrong a lot. Lucas makes a point in interviews for the Archive books that he wanted to show that institutions become corrupt. We can see it with the jedi. They are political actors serving the will of a corrupted government so blindly that they follow the durections of a sith lord without even realizing. Yhey have lost their way so completely that they march into their own destruction. At the end of the saga, Luke is the ideal jedi. It was never what we saw from the order. I think once you see how that is, it will help you understand the way the order is portrayed, not just by Headland but by Lucas himself.
Parallels of the Jedi with the Tolkien elves here. "When the elves thought that evil was defeated for ever and it was not so". The dangers of apathy and complacency have been handled SO much better in the prequals as well as in Tolkien of course. The Acolyte attempt to undermine the Jedi mythos was so hopelessly hamfisted. "Noble intentions" do NOT trigger downfalls, straying from or forgetting those noble intentions do. Apathy/complacency from the Jedi and rage/revenge from the Noldor elves in Star Wars and Tolkien respectively. You make some very valid points here Thor.
So, question... In the movies we learn Anakin (and obviously Luke) were to old to train. But was there any mention of this when they took Osha to be trained? Could there be a thread here that will lead to the future age restrictions?
Listening to your long drawn out argument of the Acolyte and how it failed to make a good tear down of the Jedi reminds me essentially of a “Straw Man Argument.” The Acolyte is basically a Straw Man Argument.
I have a hunch that we'll be viewing the acolyte as high art when Skeleton Crew comes out. I mean goonies in space! What could go wrong???? Oh and then we have the Rey movie to look forward to. That's going to be grifted so bad at release, they might as well disable rotten tomatoes now.
"I mean goonies in space! What could go wrong????" To be fair to the Skeleton Crew, I highly doubt it's going to pull all the shit the Acolyte has that's pissed the fans off. The Mandalorian reminded people that Star Wars is more than just "days of our lives: Jedi/Sith Edition." If done well, Skeleton Crew could remind everyone that the galaxy is much more than just lightsabers/galactic power struggles again. Key phrase being "If done well." I honestly can't see them pulling it off, but I've been wrong before.
When I heard this was High Republic era, I was like “ok, finally an excuse to start on the high republic books”, then when I realised The Acolyte would be disconnected from the books I got a bit annoyed but when the story sounded exciting so I tried to get over it. Then the trailers came out and the hope faded out of me. There was a time this show was what I was the most excited for
@@saberiandream316 would definitely agree. I read both new canon and the old legends books. I’ve read the og Thrawn trilogy and duology, plus some other books. Im currently on Outbound Flight. Though I do enjoy plenty of Disney era books. The Thrawn Ascendancy trilogy is a fun ride
Yeah, I guess we’re in the clear on the damage this show could do. Because it’s a poorly written mess and doesn’t even accomplish its goal of tearing down the Jedi. Too many don’t understand the Jedi. Even those that hate good like Disney don’t really get them. They just don’t get them enough to even ruin them properly.
When it comes to the Jedi I tend to go more with KOTOR 2 and Chris Avellone's interpretations. It's easy for the Jedi to preach their views about morality, disconnected as they are from the average person of the galaxy in their ivory towers back on Coruscant.
"You made your own little Star Wars fan fiction that really didn't have much to say" Accurate summary of most of the Disney live-action Star Wars projects since they bought the franchise...
The ones who did wrong is basically Sol and Torbin. Sol got almost hysterical over that he wanted Osha to be his padawan after seeing her in 10 seconds. Even if she was to old and the council said no. Torbin how was so homesick and immature. That he wanted to kidnap the girls just so he could go home. There was no conflict other then what they brought to themselves.
I love what Thor mentioned about not making excuses to like something or say something is good. Earlier today I got into a spat with someone on Theory's reaction to a Leslie interview, where this individual tried arguing why Ki Adi Mundi being present was "good actually" and how the writers actually did undertand the lore. I won't recap EVERY point mentioned because we'd be here all day with me providing rebuttals. But I shall summerise it as seeing someone put more thought into the WHY of the scene than the writers. And this is a whole a lot of the Acolyte's advocates fall into. They do a lot of mental gymnastics to justify the MANY issues with the show, but simultaneously argue that the show is ACTUALLY telling/showing us these things that they speculate. Which is simply not true. This show expects you to just turn your brain off and not care, if you do think its bad, unless you don't think this show is bad in which you should sing the praises as loud you can. But furthermore, the defenders of this show are spending far too much time praising the idea or premise, but fail to take into account the execution. Just as an example, could it be feasible in an alternate universe for Ki Adi Mundi to be a good choice to put in the show, sure, however that is not the Unverse we live in. The reason situations like Ki Adi Mundi's presence in this show blew up is not because of "fans complaining about a birthday", but because its an avatar of why the Acolyte is nothing but stuck up fan fiction drivel, that bullies you if you don't like it
1000 generations quote was refering to being guardians of peace, until the dark times. I take this into meaning some past war->clone wars/empire(which happened in like 1 generation). 1000 years quote is some jedi hubris because there's obviously hidden sith, and I don't think dark/fallen jedi or some evil witches count as a Sith, so if Sol,Mae,Osha get blamed for the death of those jedi, it's not conflicting with that statement. Qimir said he was a jedi youngling so he can get written off by the council as some dark/fallen jedi too. Assuming nobody lives to report Qimir self describing himself as a "Sith", it feels like they are pushing towards Sol taking the blame and Qimir/sith master finding a Vergence on Brendok.
In the bigger picture of things, this is really about a few Jedi and their experience with a strange Force occurence. It's a story set in Star Wars but doesn't represent all of Star Wars.
Overall with the Acolyte I feel cheated, I had expected going in from what little of the Marketing I was trying to consume, we we're getting a sort of Buddy Cop, Yord and Jecki, Murder Mystery ... only for the Mystery of the Murder to be solved in episode 1 maybe early episode 2. There's good ideas and big themes (action choreo is great) but overall the execution is lacking, and little writing mistakes like a passive protagonist in Osha, and the unearned character motivation swings in Mae all add up too much to be ignored, personally sitting around 5/10 atm could bump up to 6/10 if they stick a landing.
"Who knows what will happen in it [the last episode?" (9:18) Show runner (Leslye Headland), the director, some of the actors, perhaps KK, and likely some others.
My theory is that the writers' room is a safe space where you can't criticize other people's ideas, because they will feel offended and have their existence denied. So any idea is accepted, no matter how stupid it is.
Leslye as writer and showrunner: Let's include Ki-Adi-Mundi from the prequels... Leslye now in damage control mode: Those are not the same Jedi from the prequels... Please not see my series - which I connected to the prequels directly - as any criticism of George Lucas's lore.
Nerdest posted another post-episode interview with Headland.. it’s so telling how bad the writing is that she has to come explain the plot and motivations after each episode. I’m sure we’ll get a video on it from Thor as she talked about the vergence.
Kenobi was elevated to Knight, not master, following the duel of the fates, as the council judged he had passed the last of his trials. 'Noble' is a nonsensical word to try and attribute to Qui-Gon. He was doing what he thought was right at the time, it resulted in much death and suffering, though perhaps in the end all of it was necessary.
Headland wanted to make a Star Wars show tearing down the ideals of the Jedi (being selfless, kind, gentle, soft-spoken and acting without being ruled by emotions), but was literally too incompetent to do it. Not surprising considering she comes across as loud, brash, arrogant, and is completely ruled by how she feels. Almost like her ideals are more aligned with a different faction of force users. On a totally, completely, 100% unrelated note...isn't it interesting how the Sith are portrayed as misunderstood and not really all that bad in this show. Hmmmm. When your self-insert becomes a self-report.
I wish these Disney SW creators took vows of silence. They get everyone's anxieties up even before the show starts and then once it does fans are looking for confirmation of what they feared was coming. They need special media training to learn to use many words but actually say nothing when they get interviewed. Gilroy did something similar saying he didn't even like SW and wasn't going to pander to fans or something like that. There's no need to rile up the fan base.
Glad to see a video about this show that isn’t just ragebait. Also idk about the Jedi being “ideal”. They’ve always been portrayed as heavily flawed since the prequels where they quickly took sides in a violent war and also went along with allowing the creation of clones which was highly unethical.
They’ve never really been portrayed as particularly flawed in the prequels; as for the clones, episodes 2 and 3 don’t ever really stop to consider the actual implications or ramifications of what it means for the Jedi to be serving in a war, and it goes over the audience’s head as a result. You can definitely think critically on your own and decide how ethical it all is on your own, but it’s definitely something that the movies never really comments on. A lot of the information we have on what the Jedi order should be doing and how they might’ve strayed from their path was really introduced through EU or supplementary stuff. 0:04
The prequels show the Jedi as a group unprepared for a war which leads to their role as guardians of the republic being manipulated by a Sith Lord. The separatists were being led by count dooku a sith so why would they side with them? As yoda says the dark side clouded their judgement. The senate are the ones that agree to the clone army and the Jedi due to their ideals serve as generals to protect the republic
@@SultanOfAwesomenessI mean, it’s heavily implied that their judgement was clouded. When qui-gon brought news of a sith the council didn’t want to believe it because of what the republic might think of them. That and the republic had been growing more corrupt as was shown in andor and tales of the Jedi and the Jedi just didn’t care, they became soldiers of the republic more than actual peacekeepers. The fact that they failed to detect palpating or notice his political power growing shows that that their judgement became clouded. Besides it’s never good to look at people as “ideal” everyone has their flaws and so did the Jedi.
Hey Thor, while keeping the current Canon in mind which era would you like the next batch of star wars media (stories, series, movies, etc.) to be set in. And which stories would you tell or at least start with. (You can be as broad or as in-depth as you want).
Thor you’ve put it perfectly. JEDI is one letter off from an anagram of idea. It’s an intrinsically positive word. It’s been used in popular culture for decades because it was established by Lucas as such. If a musician is referred to as a “musical Jedi”, pretty much anyone alive would take that as a positive. As opposed to anything “flawed”. Thankfully Headland’s “little project” will have no impact on that. Venestra can rest easy I guess. 😂 Jedi positive reputation intact.
Sadly it is exactly what I expected which is the next Last Jedi in terms of audience reaction and treatment of the fans from the media, and the show is just not good when you look past all of that.
Far from Last Jedi. I hated Last Jedi and I was almost done with Star Wars after it because it didn't even feel like star wars and even the main cast complained about it. I LOVE the Acolyte and it's my favorite season 1 of a Star Wars show ever. It's Star Wars on steroids. The people who loved the Last Jedi seemed to be all general audience fans while serious fans hated it while this time the hate is coming from the general audience and people who complain about everything being woke or having an agenda. Last Jedi needed a course correction. The Acolyte is already working on season 3. Yes 3. I have yet to find a single person hate the Acolyte that wasn't some random internet person. After the Last Jedi, it felt unanimous that Star Wars fans hated it. Anyway, the Acolyte rules and the haters crack me up. I think they thought they were gonna get the high republic books cancelled too but that didn't work out for them despite how much the internet convinced everyone they were hated by all.
Hey Thor, listening to your thoughts on the show, I do wonder if the story would have worked better if it had aligned with the prequels more, in that the republic senate could have been included actively interacting with the Jedi. The show could have shown the beginnings of the corruption that would plague the senate one hundred years later, individual’s and groups directing the Jedi to undertake task that are morally grey but are clearly for the perceived good of the republic. The Jedi could have been shown to be conflicted, padawan, knights and masters disagreeing on whether they should be doing these things, but the order is increasingly intertwined with the republic senate and the idea of service that dissenters fall into line with the ideal of what a Jedi is in this time.
We got Skeleton crew after this then the holy grail andor s2, hopefully skeleton crew isn’t shit, and hopefully andor s2 isn’t a let down. Then after that I have no idea wtf Star Wars is gonna go
Everyone must remember the days of “lukewarm Ian your father” are dead and gone!!!! This is the age of”the power of ONE the power of TWO the power of MANY”!!!!!
I get the distinct impression that everyone involved in the creation of that show hates the original movies and what they stood for and are trying their best to re canonise the universe.
I was going to say even without the Obi-Wan quote being brought up in this video. The Jedi are supposed to be guardians of peace and justice. It's a very simple concept, and it is made interesting by the scale on which they work and the process by which they do it. Jedi are superpowered beings who devote years of their life to developing a greater understanding of the spiritual and metaphysical connection they have to the universe. They don't need to be perfect, ultra-wise monks who never make mistakes. But I do want them to be more complete and ideal versions of regular people. That's why I'm not interested in a story that tries to inject nuance and questionable morality into their institution. That's a good story for a show like Andor, where regular people face conflict that we can relate to an experience in real life. When it comes to the Jedi and Sith, I want more philosophical and fantastical stories featuring pretty clear good guys and bad guys. That doesn't mean a simple story with a lack of complexity. Knights of the Old Republic was a straightforward, fairly basic story, but it wasn't shallow.
When they announced this would be set only 100 years before Episode I, I got nervous. Lucasfilm under Kennedy just cannot be trusted with the lore. And that is too close to the lore for them to not mess it up. They have burned through all their chances. Just because they call it Star Wars doesn't matter.
And they didn’t.
@@achaudhari101they most certainly did, its not even really up for debate either if were being honest here.
@achaudhari101 If you don't think they screwed around with the lore, then you clearly do not actually know the lore of Star Wars. They did and they have on all of their SW projects with the exception of Rogue 1, Mando season 1-2, and Andor. Yes they screwed with the lore in the Ashoka show. And the entire concept of the OB1 show was screwing with the established lore.
Hey Thor. When it comes to Star Wars, do you believe ignorance is bliss? I have chosen to believe Star Wars is the great fantasy entertaining escape I've loved for more than 35 years of my life.
sadly kathleen kennedy isn’t even involved with the show outside of funding
The Acolyte completely met my expectations. It is a massive dumpster fire.
I thought it would be more offensive than it actually is. No, the problem is its just confusing and uninteresting
@@Agent_Cobaltit's incredibly offensive
Its funny how Headland said: “……Those who do not know the high republic…..”
NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE HIGH REPUBLIC IS.
The books are actually pretty solid
She’s talking about the books.
No one cares about the High Republic. There's more EU fans than High Republic fans.
Quite honestly, a very small percentage of the fandom actually reads the books.
I know right?
No one read it.
And this show ain't gonna help with that. 🙄
The Jedi are not perfect.. but they are the good guys
Thank you. This.
There are good fanfics that are written out of passion, there are bad fanfics that are written out of passion, and then there are the fanfics that you write because you want to say something and want to use a popular franchise to get that done. At least with the first two, you can see the passion and the intent behind them, making love letters to the original media. With the last one, they're most often dry and bland. This is a textbook example of that last type.
@UCwMgDqH54WLvWy5S3CPwUJA Normally I try to keep my comments respectful but this is clearly a bot therefore... f off
This is not fanfiction. It's obvious that they aren't fans of star wars. They don't care for the lore, they don't care for the overarching themes. They used the brand to make cash and the lack of effort, skill and passion is blatantly obvious.
Hatefiction
I don’t even think it was the Jedi being flawed, it really only came down to 2 Jedi that instigated a lot of the issues , the Jedi council even told them to leave the witches alone
Indara’s cold indifference and her reusing the same empty platitude to Sol was her flaw, which was portrayed well in my opinion. Like Indara and Sol are the only characters in the show that have made me feel any emotion other than confusion.
It showed them as severely flawed. The Jedi are not worried about their image and they are not in the business of lying to each other.
@@cedricroney1475 they are still just one group within the Jedi order, but I don’t think the acting Master Jedi so readily suggests “coverup” and everyone just kinda goes along with it doesn’t speak volumes to how the order is portrayed. So yes, the Jedi are being portrayed as flawed.
Yoda and the council tell Quigon and Obi not to train Anakin. They train Anakin. Jedi aren’t perfect.
Sol had to get his groomer in though.
Guess we know where Headumn got that idea from.
Speaking of, wonder how Harvey is doing these days....
How can she say she's not talking about George Lucas' Jedi if she included Ki Adi Mundi?
Just as in The Acolyte, it doesn’t make sense.
she's simply lying because this show is a likely going to ruin multiple peoples careers. She'll say anything to get fans to call off the dogs
What’s really odd now, is that I cannot even fathom why he had to be in the show at all. Unless he has a role in the last episode why tear him and screw with lore in the first place.
She in that interview is giving me strong vibes of her doing a damage control, either by her own efforts, or more likely, by request of LucasFilm, but that's just my small bit of speculation based on feelings.
@@mihailos8701 Most definitely. She (and Disney) have moved from hyping-up the series, to deflecting negative signals, to changing the narrative (using engagement as a success metric instead of viewership) and doing damage control.
They had high hopes The Acolyte would help them re-engage their audience, but they are seeing quite the opposite. It will not sell any toys nor help them gain momentum.
I will never understand why Disney didn't just start a hundred years after the OT and build their own lore.
(Aside from the writers being talentless, creatively bankrupt hacks.)
The only reason I can see is they wanted to destroy all the original content, on purpose.
Eh. Is what it is I guess...
It’s because the Sequels were not well received. You can bet if RoS made 3 billion worldwide, we would see a Finn Movie, another Rey trilogy, etc.
They could have made their own story 200, 300… 1000 years after the Battle of Yavin.
But Disney is unable to create, all they can do is destroy.
Because they know that it's those original stories that people care about. If they sever ties from them too much, they lose the obvious inroad to the fans of the show. They just don't understand the material and aren't hiring very good writers...they're not the Legion of Doom, sitting in a big Darth Vader helmet in the swamp and cackling about how "This next Disney+ series will DESTROY Star Wars! Bwuhahahaha!"
By buying it from Lucas they solidified that his star wars would never die because everything can be labeled as before disney after
Before disney will always be great
Agreed 👍 same with Star Trek
bad "fan fiction" ... glad I passed on it.
Wait for the Rey movie that will save star wars right? Or the mando movie that's gonna save it yeah 😂
@@h8ydencha0tic52 To be fair, I'd have more faith in a Mando movie actually being good then anything post Disney trilogy. 🤮
@@h8ydencha0tic52 Always have the Pre Disney films. Who cares...it's theirs to thrive or crash and burn...but me and my money were out after TLJ
The actor is bailing from Star Wars as he found out his character is getting replaced for a 'better' character.
So I doubt that Mando movie is going to be any good.
Anti-fan fiction, more precisely.
Yoda cameo in last episode. Calling it.
No because Headland said he was off limits for this season. It’s likely either Tenebrous or a very young Plagueis.
yeah she clearly said no yoda in season 1 before the show even started.
Andrew Garfield said he wasn't gonna be in No Way Home
I called this weeks ago.
@@achaudhari101 People in entertainment literally lie all the time. Not saying Yoda WILL be in it, but your reasoning is absurd, given how much people just lie.
These aren't the Jedi you are looking for
This is not the Star Wars you are looking for
@DarthKastos This is not the comment you were looking for.
You know there's a problem when you're more excited for the review than the actual show
Part of one of your statements made me laugh. “Lesyle Headland tried to write a show….” 😂
Thanks for the video.
She only wrote two episodes. I think that's why she seems so clueless about the show in interviews.
@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 she’s the show runner. If she wasn’t actively working with and overseeing the other writers that is a huge mistake. Either way, whether she oversaw it or closed her eyes while others finished it, it led to a terribly written show in my opinion.
@@IzzosPlace Coming from the company that thought handing the sequel trilogy off to a different director each movie, I wouldnt be surprised
All im saying is that if JJ did all three movies it would be for the better. If Rian Johnson did all three movies it would be for the better
@@Agent_Cobalt amen! My god how can you make a trilogy without a plan????? 😂🤡
Best part about this show is that many Star Wars fans lost faith in Disney Star Wars...they finally see the light. Only shows Disney did right are Rogue One, Mandalorian season 1&2 ... I even liked Solo( Haven't watched Andor yet) After they fired Gina for BS I was done n gald to see many others see it now. Stop consuming "product " otherwise nothing will change...
Do yourself a favor and watch Andor after this joke ends next week.
It is slow burn, but by the end, you will be in love. Heavy Rogue One style. 2 of the best Star Wars speeches ever.
The difference between the show we got and its premise as it was pitched are bafflingly different. It was supposed to be a murder mystery and yet I don’t think we’ve ever not known who the murderer has been. It was supposed to show things from the sith perspective and I think episode 6 was the only time we heard a little bit of dark side philosophy from someone who might not even be a mainline Sith Lord. After every episode Headland has been giving interviews that shows she has a completely different view of what this show is and isn’t showing. It is funny to think that someone was worried the show might be written too well tho
So it seems like The Acolyte failed successfully on its messaging? I find that kinda hilarious, to be honest.
George Lucas taught us about the Force, the Jedi and the Old Republic through the testimony and conduct of Obi-Wan and Yoda. These two survivors had no wealth or privilege, but had no resentment. Rather, they lived with dignity, patience, good humor and a productive, hopeful purpose. When these two chaps talked about the Force and the Jedi who once served it, they did it with such humble reverence that we could see at once that the Force is good, and the Jedi were good. No doubt imperfect, but good, and we gathered that the Republic that they protected was also good, and whatever flaws it must have had, it was a more civilized age. Their power and skill and virtue established, the story of their fall became extremely meaningful. It made the Sith and the Empire that overthrew them seem all the more competent and dangerous. What was wrong was clear, and what was right was clear. I think this is what made the story of Star Wars so important to so many people for so long.
The modern trend of deconstructing heroes and history until they blur into shades of gray, has weakened the meaning of the Star Wars story, with a predictable loss of audience affection, especially among its most devoted fans.
I'm shocked I tell you, shocked that the same Jedi who left the Nightsisters of Dathomir to their own devices would also be fine with leaving another bunch of wacky space witches alone. Unprecedented.
That's because the Nightsisters hid themselves among the clans of Dathomir. They weren't practicing openly the way you see in TCW. That's just Filoni watering down a complex mythos. It's what he does.
Hi Thor, long time follower. I appreciate your even-handed coverage of Star Wars, keep up the good work.
In my view, there is a moral divide in the fandom: the side that believes in good and evil, and the side that thinks good and evil are "a point of view". Those are opposing beliefs that can't coexist.
According to George Lucas, the first six films are his philosophy: the light side is compassion, the dark side is selfishness and greed. In other words, the core of the Force is a lesson about morality.
Lucas also believes that goodness is to resist temptation, give up quick pleasures and live for something bigger than ourselves. The Jedi represent classic heroism: self-sacrifice for the greater good.
That said, I understand why part of the fandom wants to see the Jedi as morally dubious; denying our passions to take the high road is very difficult to do. So instead of seeing the Jedi as role models, it's more comforting to pretend they're no better than the rest of us; that they just throw their weight around because they can.
Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that Leslye Headland-a relativist who avoids even saying the word "evil"-identifies so much with the Sith. Even if she had real talent, and The Acolyte was technically well written, her worldview is fundamentally anti-Star Wars.
The sad part is that there is potentially an interesting idea here: what happens when the high ideals of the Jedi at their best runs head first into a political situation? For example: a caste of workers on Kuat (for those who don't remember, Kuat has a caste system and people are born into their social caste with the high families ruling from orbit or family estates while the lowest castes are basically slaves) decides they don't like their lot in life and rebel against the high born families. They rebel, and this causes the famous Kuat drive yards to grind to a halt. The rebels call for help from their exalted protectors of peace and justice to assist them in their fight for freedom while the high families lean on their political contacts and make it clear that sedition will not be tolerated. What do the Jedi do? Maybe the Senate, including the Kuati senators, is considering a funding bill for the Jedi? Maybe the Jedi, on a completely unrelated mission, get pulled into the conflict with rumors of Jedi on the surface of Kuat causing a political scandal? I think that's a potentially very interesting story that touches on the themes of politics versus ethics and pragmatism versus idealism.
You're right. I'd watch that!
I like this. I'd also like to see what more politically detached writers could come up with, reflecting on the current state of politics and geopolitics as a whole.
I would love to see a story like that. It's actually relatable, where a person could see both sides of the argument
This is the kinda story we used to get in the clone wars show. Clearly this kind of story is able to be told without just trying to make the Jedi out to be terrible like this show does.
already 10 times more interesting than this. But there is one problem that many are completely forgetting... THIS SHOW IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT THE SITH LMAO. That's how badly they blew this. It's just another jedi show hahaha
For real. The best way to sum this show up is in two facets: bad fan fiction, and "for reasons".
I have seen animated music videos on UA-cam created by fans using cut scenes from Knights of the Old Republic that have more story and better storytelling then this show.
I honestly think the show would have been better if it committed to one of the two major story lines. Either be about searching for the vergence or finding the jedi killer. Eight episodes just doesn't seem like enough time for both.
Weirdly it feels very stretched to me (short episodes and all) and yet hasn’t dived into anything with any depth. I still feel like I barely know most of the characters.
@@Paul_McSeol The show is simultaneously stretched wafer thin, but also overstuffed and bloated with storylines going nowhere. A Jedi killer, a secret Sith, a dark secret, Force super twins...too much. Too much stuff the show is just leaving hanging all over the place and yet every episode feels like too little material stretched too thin. What is this show even about? Who are the main characters? What is the main plot?
They have plenty of time to cover both stories.
They just aren't skilled enough to do it.
The vergence thing seems like it could have been worked out in a few hours with a competent Jedi Master. You know by doing what Jedis do, and feel the force.
Maybe if every episode was a full hour, they could have done it.
Her little own Fan Fiction -- yes, that is exactly what Headland achieved. Of course she probably is not done yet, she'll want a season 2 and no doubt will explore Qimir. What I find humorous is Qimir saying that he wants Freedom to do whatever he wants. He was living for years under the radar before he confronted the Jedi for unclear reasons. Unless he was wanting to be Palpatine and rule the universe or butcher people for fun, he basically had that freedom to begin with. The Jedi didn't know who he was or what he was.
Now some people are saying that he was a darkside user that wasn't consumed by the dark side, and/or that the witches were also darkside users that were able to dabble and stay decent people (though how the witches acted in this last episode seems to show them much more sinister). My big question is this: In Lucas-made Star Wars, we see that embracing the darkside leads to a paranoid, power-hungry life that almost always ends badly. They don't trust anyone, they are obsessed with power (or revenge, dark knowledge or similar things). I don't see how it would be possible for someone embracing the darkside -- as a Sith, Witch, Nightsister or whatever-- to ever have anything meaningful and long lasting in their lives without constantly fearing betrayal, assassination or rival powers overwhelming them. The 'bad guys' in most fictional series (Star Wars or otherwise) always seem to be very unrealistic in their goals. Power, control, revenge, forbidden knowledge, wealth -- these are usually the motivations presented. But in the real world, the 'bad guys' usually want some of the same things like normal people. They may love their families and trust them, they may be devoted to their nation or their cause, they may love fine art or music -- they don't usually just do their evil for only power, control, revenge, forbidden knowledge or wealth. In SW, most of the 'bad guys' we see are Sith or darkside users and yet most of them seem only focused on the 'big 5' motivations I listed above. We see Palpatine at the Opera, but we never see him ever enjoying anything other than being cruel. Yet this works, as, like Thor has said at this channel, that is how the darkside of the Force perverts an individual.
Then, in the Acolyte, we are presented with the mysterious Qimir. A darkside user -- is he a Sith? A disgruntled former Jedi? A minion of another powerful darksider? Who knows; but we see him all serene and controlled when he is talking to Osha about wanting Freedom. Yet just like Palpatine, Maul and Vader, we don't see him really living or enjoying anything. Instead, he seems almost desperate for a disciple. He lives in a friggin' cave with minimal stuff like a monk. He talks about Freedom, doesn't realize that with the exception of extreme actions, he had that freedom already, and he still seems miserable. Serene, but miserable. Really, he isn't any different than the other Sith at the core. I just don't see why so many of those that actually love the Acolyte think that Qimir is so different and enlightened. He sure doesn't seem to be enjoying his life, he's merely accepted it. Like most evil in SW, he doesn't know actually how to live other than focusing on some of the 'big 5' motivations that nearly all the 'bad guys' in SW follow. Dryden Vos in Solo is about the only villain in SW that actually seems to enjoy things other than the 'big 5', but even that wasn't enough to enrich his life for long. It would be nice to see a SW villain that did have some 'normal' loves or interests. Thrawn may be another one, but he's so different in the books than he is in the series that it is hard to even think of both mediums showing the same man. Timothy Zahn's character building of Thrawn could have made him a deeper, more sympathetic villain, but sadly Filoni seems bent on making him much more flat and cookie-cutter in his motivations.
One of the few times that I’m thankful for Disneys incompetence. This could have been so much worse than it already is.
Hey Thor, why is Disney and Lucasfilm so Hell-Bent to label us fans with such ridiculous words that end's with an "ist" and then they claimed we're threatened by female leads and diverse cast?
When I look at Rogue One, Andor, House Of The Dragon, Cobra Kai, and so on, they had really high scores by the audience themselves.
I literally grew up with female characters and diverse cast during the Disney Renaissance and the prequel trilogy era where storytelling was the main focus and the characters were actually well written and inspiring. And now all of the sudden, we're being labeled as some scum of the world for not endorsing poorly written female characters in poorly written movies and shows.
What are your thoughts?
No mercy ,cobra kai for life .
Because some people have been ist and harassed the actors just like what happen with the actir for Jar Jar, young Anakin, and lucas himself.
@@Thed538dhskthats a very very small portion of the fan base. The vast majority just think their shows and movies are poorly written.
I think a lot of it is the erosion of gender norms coinciding with the new age feminist revolution.
We always longed for female role-models to take center stage, but when we finally get an era that is trying to push this they are also pushing these feminine leads as either generic masculine leads that seem somewhat less genuine, or the entire cast seems so fluid the feminine leads don't really have the option to be less masculine by comparison, then where they do actively show feminine qualities they lack enough male pushback in the writers room so everything always works out only from their perspective and anything the male cast does tends to be unquestionably "wrong".
This is how I see it. I believe it's a way of deflecting criticism. The higher-ups in Hollywood don't want to take responsibility for poor decision-making. Doing so would possibly tarnish their status/ reputation. In an attempt to pass the buck, they lose support of their target audience.
My daughter and I have been watching this show, and every week when it ends we just kind of look at each other and shrug.
What is this show about? What does it add to the story of Star Wars? I think that's the real mystery central to this story: how does it expand and enrich the Galaxy Far, Far Away? It must be, coz I ponder on it every week, and I'm stumped 😒
Evil has succeeded Thor. The day Kennedy wore her "force is female" shirt to thunderous applause. That is the day evil triumphed.
Oh Thor. There's still the finale. I think that's the episode that will really show Headland's plans for showing the Jedi as corrupt.
The finale is going to be a massive payoff! We will get long-awaited answers to an incredible mystery, while also building a larger mystery that fits perfectly within canon and… who am I kidding, it’s gonna be a massive flop.
Right on target
THOR TOOK THE GLOVES OFF WITH THIS ONE!!
And I'm here for it! 🤣🤣🙏
It's somewhat like Rings of Power. The people behind the show chose an era not previously covered well and made up a bunch of stuff that doesn't feel at all like the real thing.
I don’t always agree with you but I think your takes on the Jedi and the themes surrounding them are pretty spot on.
The Acolyte seems to suffer from the same issues as Amazon's Ring of Powers. While both shows are based on long-standing franchises, the showrunners do not understand the source material and try to inject contemporary ideas and deconstruct heroic characters. I have a feeling the final episode will end on Brendok.
It flat-out shocks me when people are like "but Andor doesn't FEEL like Star Wars" and then they proceed to try and defend this mess of a show as if it is somehow more Star Wars due to its inclusion of Jedi and lightsabers. Acolyte is a mystery plot with no exciting or satisfying answers, tension, or direction. I feel like the writers have no idea what's going on, and as a result I'm so unsure as to what the message is they're trying to impart here.
Like, this feels like a bad fan-fiction from people who have no clear understanding of the core themes of Star Wars and why it's such an interesting universe for so many different kinds of stories.
@thekeccles1996 I saw a comment that sums it up nicely that said this show feel like it was written last min by a group of people who don't work together and someone forgot to connect the stories
I feel like both Blandor and The Acollapse have failed to captivate audience.
@@mazkeraid4039You personally might not like Andor but it unquestionably is a show that many fans enjoyed and brought new people in to watching Star wars
@@neutronstarpilot4393 If I want to see an adult themed Star Wars, I look elsewhere. Also, nobody likes Kyle Katarn knockoff with no development. The show is called Andor, yet it is about as captivating as Geode from The High Republic series.
@mazkeraid4039 It's cool if you don't like Andor,
Not everyone is going to like everything and I wouldn't expect them to
But you are in the minority on this one.
Those straw men sure are terrible jedi!
"It doesn't take much for evil to win." This! Exactly this! That's why George's Star Wars message and films are so resonant. A foundational, universal truth for humanity presented in an entertaining allegory.
There is still one episode more to go, so they could still do something awful... But, if it all ends just as far as the past 7 episodes have been, I feel relieved... but that is really, really sad... the fact that, as fans, we feel relieved for saying "yay! It didn't shit all over the franchise! It *only* was completely mediocre!"
Since this flopped hard who is ready to see the Rey movie lose money 💰
What i think we should’ve had is simply a series explaining how we get from high republic and “height of the jedi” to prequel era and “there’s no way the sith could’ve returned without us knowing”
Rather than make a failure murder mystery show set in a -scifi- Star Wars universe. How about just make a show that connects your audience to more of your own media and reinvest in the franchise.
Telling non relating and weird concept shows just cause you want to probably isnt the best move for an IP that is losing money.
Normally, I would make a comment to add on to what you said, or expand upon a topic, but I think you perfectly hit the nail on the head here so there's nothing I can add 👍
I love that you basically said "I was worried that it would be well-written, but it makes no sense so we're good." At least, that's kinda what I got out of this video. 😆
She's not even a mediocre writer
Star Wars: The Strawmanning of the Jedi
I didn't completely hate it; nor did I "love" it.
Russian Doll IS good. But she didn’t create that show alone. The Acolyte is her baby and it fell on its face.
They teased this show so much as a mystery, and yet the answers we need (along with a novel of questions about the show) makes this show more of a mystery on WHY it was cleared to film in the first place. I hope they stay away from Disney+ shows while they work on the upcoming movies
It's not even what they told us it was gonna be. It was supposed to be about the Sith.
Hey Thor, the disaster of the first 7 episodes aside, how can they possibly wrap up all the loose ends in episode 8?
"The Acolyte" wasn't what I thought it might be (And that's a good thing)
That is like saying the diarrhea wasn't that bad and that's a good thing...
No it's still a bad thing...
Now to watch the video and Give Thor a thumbs up for watching and trying as always to be evenhanded in his review.
the jebait of the video title making you think that the show turned out good, but instead thor was actually worried that the show might be good, and glad that its bad.. lmao
Russian Doll season 1 is good. Season 2 not so much. That’s why I was ok with her writing Acolyte, I thought that was good so maybe this would be good. Nope.
She's only credited as writing one episode of Russian Doll
@@diemes5463 Hmmm after looking it up she was executive producer on the show. She co-wrote three episodes and directed four.
Russian doll season 2 was so confusing lol
This show actually defied any previous idea as to how terrible a story set within the Star Wars universe could be. And this will have serious consequences going forward for Disney. From now on, I won't watch anything made under the Disney Star Wars label firsthand unless it's deemed as watchable, or its made by Tony Gilroy. Disney has completely ruined any reputation that it may have had previously.
Bob Iger is that snake that botches every project around. Kathleen Kennedy is incredibly incompetent at her job, Kevin Feige... hoy! I hate to say it, Tony Gilroy is a decent writer, but not a good writer for Star Wars, plain and simple.
@mazkeraid4039 yeah, you can only do Blade Runner (or Bourne in Gilroy's case) so many times before it gets old.
Thor, I think it would benefit you to recognize the difference between the ideal of the jedi and what we are shiwn the jedi have becomd in the prequels and the shows. We can see the idea of the jedi as a firce fir giid in the universe, while still seeing that some of their dogma is inherently flawed and the order was corrupt in its own way.
I mean, we see Obi-Wan and Yoda continuing to preach their views in the OT, and it is Luke saves up the galaxy by proving them wrong. They were wrong a lot.
Lucas makes a point in interviews for the Archive books that he wanted to show that institutions become corrupt. We can see it with the jedi. They are political actors serving the will of a corrupted government so blindly that they follow the durections of a sith lord without even realizing. Yhey have lost their way so completely that they march into their own destruction.
At the end of the saga, Luke is the ideal jedi. It was never what we saw from the order. I think once you see how that is, it will help you understand the way the order is portrayed, not just by Headland but by Lucas himself.
It feels like a 9-5 trying to watch these episodes
then don't watch them?
My wife and I watched Russian Doll and really enjoyed it. We didn't even care where it was going because the ride was so interesting.
Parallels of the Jedi with the Tolkien elves here. "When the elves thought that evil was defeated for ever and it was not so". The dangers of apathy and complacency have been handled SO much better in the prequals as well as in Tolkien of course. The Acolyte attempt to undermine the Jedi mythos was so hopelessly hamfisted. "Noble intentions" do NOT trigger downfalls, straying from or forgetting those noble intentions do. Apathy/complacency from the Jedi and rage/revenge from the Noldor elves in Star Wars and Tolkien respectively. You make some very valid points here Thor.
Not sure those people you ‘trusted’ are trustworthy now…
So, question... In the movies we learn Anakin (and obviously Luke) were to old to train. But was there any mention of this when they took Osha to be trained? Could there be a thread here that will lead to the future age restrictions?
In episode 7 the Jedi council refused Sol's request to bring Osha saying, in part, that she was too old.
@@ellicel copy, thanks.
Sooo...a kind of... What If?
Thank you
I'm glad the show didn't do as much damage to the Jedi as much as i thought it would.
But the damage to the fanbase was done before release
@@ian-flanagan I understand what you mean.
No damage will be done so long as you don’t believe the show exists.
How did Wookie retractable claws not make their 'debut' to inflict the damage to Torbin?
Listening to your long drawn out argument of the Acolyte and how it failed to make a good tear down of the Jedi reminds me essentially of a “Straw Man Argument.” The Acolyte is basically a Straw Man Argument.
I have a hunch that we'll be viewing the acolyte as high art when Skeleton Crew comes out. I mean goonies in space! What could go wrong???? Oh and then we have the Rey movie to look forward to. That's going to be grifted so bad at release, they might as well disable rotten tomatoes now.
"I mean goonies in space! What could go wrong????"
To be fair to the Skeleton Crew, I highly doubt it's going to pull all the shit the Acolyte has that's pissed the fans off.
The Mandalorian reminded people that Star Wars is more than just "days of our lives: Jedi/Sith Edition." If done well, Skeleton Crew could remind everyone that the galaxy is much more than just lightsabers/galactic power struggles again.
Key phrase being "If done well." I honestly can't see them pulling it off, but I've been wrong before.
The people who think good and evil are just points of view cannot tell you what is right from what is wrong.
When I heard this was High Republic era, I was like “ok, finally an excuse to start on the high republic books”, then when I realised The Acolyte would be disconnected from the books I got a bit annoyed but when the story sounded exciting so I tried to get over it. Then the trailers came out and the hope faded out of me. There was a time this show was what I was the most excited for
Read the EU instead. Much more worth your time, and free of further retcons, whether from Filoni or someone else.
@@saberiandream316 would definitely agree. I read both new canon and the old legends books. I’ve read the og Thrawn trilogy and duology, plus some other books. Im currently on Outbound Flight. Though I do enjoy plenty of Disney era books. The Thrawn Ascendancy trilogy is a fun ride
@@Eclipse-mf6hc I'll recommend Jedi Apprentice and Young Jedi Knights too.
Yeah, I guess we’re in the clear on the damage this show could do. Because it’s a poorly written mess and doesn’t even accomplish its goal of tearing down the Jedi.
Too many don’t understand the Jedi. Even those that hate good like Disney don’t really get them. They just don’t get them enough to even ruin them properly.
Don't jinx it, there's still 1 episode to go...
When it comes to the Jedi I tend to go more with KOTOR 2 and Chris Avellone's interpretations. It's easy for the Jedi to preach their views about morality, disconnected as they are from the average person of the galaxy in their ivory towers back on Coruscant.
For me, destroying the Jedi and poorly written are the same thing.
"You made your own little Star Wars fan fiction that really didn't have much to say" Accurate summary of most of the Disney live-action Star Wars projects since they bought the franchise...
"You made your own little Star Wars fanfiction that didn't have much to say." Boom, roasted.
The ones who did wrong is basically Sol and Torbin. Sol got almost hysterical over that he wanted Osha to be his padawan after seeing her in 10 seconds. Even if she was to old and the council said no. Torbin how was so homesick and immature. That he wanted to kidnap the girls just so he could go home. There was no conflict other then what they brought to themselves.
Now that episode 8 is out, i suspect you'll be even more glad, as it ended up being a single individual that went wrong in the end.
this may be the best summary I have seen yet.
I love what Thor mentioned about not making excuses to like something or say something is good. Earlier today I got into a spat with someone on Theory's reaction to a Leslie interview, where this individual tried arguing why Ki Adi Mundi being present was "good actually" and how the writers actually did undertand the lore.
I won't recap EVERY point mentioned because we'd be here all day with me providing rebuttals. But I shall summerise it as seeing someone put more thought into the WHY of the scene than the writers.
And this is a whole a lot of the Acolyte's advocates fall into. They do a lot of mental gymnastics to justify the MANY issues with the show, but simultaneously argue that the show is ACTUALLY telling/showing us these things that they speculate.
Which is simply not true. This show expects you to just turn your brain off and not care, if you do think its bad, unless you don't think this show is bad in which you should sing the praises as loud you can.
But furthermore, the defenders of this show are spending far too much time praising the idea or premise, but fail to take into account the execution.
Just as an example, could it be feasible in an alternate universe for Ki Adi Mundi to be a good choice to put in the show, sure, however that is not the Unverse we live in.
The reason situations like Ki Adi Mundi's presence in this show blew up is not because of "fans complaining about a birthday", but because its an avatar of why the Acolyte is nothing but stuck up fan fiction drivel, that bullies you if you don't like it
Torbin really wanted to go home, guys.
1000 generations quote was refering to being guardians of peace, until the dark times. I take this into meaning some past war->clone wars/empire(which happened in like 1 generation).
1000 years quote is some jedi hubris because there's obviously hidden sith, and I don't think dark/fallen jedi or some evil witches count as a Sith, so if Sol,Mae,Osha get blamed for the death of those jedi, it's not conflicting with that statement. Qimir said he was a jedi youngling so he can get written off by the council as some dark/fallen jedi too. Assuming nobody lives to report Qimir self describing himself as a "Sith", it feels like they are pushing towards Sol taking the blame and Qimir/sith master finding a Vergence on Brendok.
In the bigger picture of things, this is really about a few Jedi and their experience with a strange Force occurence. It's a story set in Star Wars but doesn't represent all of Star Wars.
Overall with the Acolyte I feel cheated, I had expected going in from what little of the Marketing I was trying to consume, we we're getting a sort of Buddy Cop, Yord and Jecki, Murder Mystery ... only for the Mystery of the Murder to be solved in episode 1 maybe early episode 2. There's good ideas and big themes (action choreo is great) but overall the execution is lacking, and little writing mistakes like a passive protagonist in Osha, and the unearned character motivation swings in Mae all add up too much to be ignored, personally sitting around 5/10 atm could bump up to 6/10 if they stick a landing.
"Who knows what will happen in it [the last episode?" (9:18) Show runner (Leslye Headland), the director, some of the actors, perhaps KK, and likely some others.
Disney star wars isn't real Star Wars. Don't have to root for it. It deserves to be mocked.
My theory is that the writers' room is a safe space where you can't criticize other people's ideas, because they will feel offended and have their existence denied. So any idea is accepted, no matter how stupid it is.
Leslye as writer and showrunner: Let's include Ki-Adi-Mundi from the prequels...
Leslye now in damage control mode: Those are not the same Jedi from the prequels...
Please not see my series - which I connected to the prequels directly - as any criticism of George Lucas's lore.
Nerdest posted another post-episode interview with Headland.. it’s so telling how bad the writing is that she has to come explain the plot and motivations after each episode. I’m sure we’ll get a video on it from Thor as she talked about the vergence.
Wasn’t Qui showing noble intentions by training Anakin? Was it a noble intention to elevate a padawan to a master to train Anakin?
Kenobi was elevated to Knight, not master, following the duel of the fates, as the council judged he had passed the last of his trials.
'Noble' is a nonsensical word to try and attribute to Qui-Gon. He was doing what he thought was right at the time, it resulted in much death and suffering, though perhaps in the end all of it was necessary.
Headland wanted to make a Star Wars show tearing down the ideals of the Jedi (being selfless, kind, gentle, soft-spoken and acting without being ruled by emotions), but was literally too incompetent to do it. Not surprising considering she comes across as loud, brash, arrogant, and is completely ruled by how she feels. Almost like her ideals are more aligned with a different faction of force users. On a totally, completely, 100% unrelated note...isn't it interesting how the Sith are portrayed as misunderstood and not really all that bad in this show. Hmmmm. When your self-insert becomes a self-report.
I wish these Disney SW creators took vows of silence. They get everyone's anxieties up even before the show starts and then once it does fans are looking for confirmation of what they feared was coming. They need special media training to learn to use many words but actually say nothing when they get interviewed. Gilroy did something similar saying he didn't even like SW and wasn't going to pander to fans or something like that. There's no need to rile up the fan base.
Glad to see a video about this show that isn’t just ragebait.
Also idk about the Jedi being “ideal”. They’ve always been portrayed as heavily flawed since the prequels where they quickly took sides in a violent war and also went along with allowing the creation of clones which was highly unethical.
You mean the clones they didn’t have any involvement in the creation of and taking sides in a war which had a clear aggressor?
They’ve never really been portrayed as particularly flawed in the prequels; as for the clones, episodes 2 and 3 don’t ever really stop to consider the actual implications or ramifications of what it means for the Jedi to be serving in a war, and it goes over the audience’s head as a result. You can definitely think critically on your own and decide how ethical it all is on your own, but it’s definitely something that the movies never really comments on. A lot of the information we have on what the Jedi order should be doing and how they might’ve strayed from their path was really introduced through EU or supplementary stuff. 0:04
The prequels show the Jedi as a group unprepared for a war which leads to their role as guardians of the republic being manipulated by a Sith Lord. The separatists were being led by count dooku a sith so why would they side with them? As yoda says the dark side clouded their judgement. The senate are the ones that agree to the clone army and the Jedi due to their ideals serve as generals to protect the republic
‘Ragebait’?!
@@SultanOfAwesomenessI mean, it’s heavily implied that their judgement was clouded. When qui-gon brought news of a sith the council didn’t want to believe it because of what the republic might think of them. That and the republic had been growing more corrupt as was shown in andor and tales of the Jedi and the Jedi just didn’t care, they became soldiers of the republic more than actual peacekeepers. The fact that they failed to detect palpating or notice his political power growing shows that that their judgement became clouded. Besides it’s never good to look at people as “ideal” everyone has their flaws and so did the Jedi.
I can not give this video enough thumbs up! Thank you.
When you defend people should be permitted to (ab) use their power any way they want you MAY end up working with an abusive movie magnate.
She's basically admitting this show is not canon.
Hey Thor, while keeping the current Canon in mind which era would you like the next batch of star wars media (stories, series, movies, etc.) to be set in.
And which stories would you tell or at least start with. (You can be as broad or as in-depth as you want).
I hope it’s a KOTOR movie that’d be epic if it was competent
none i dont want disney doing anything. but also they need to stick to 1 era there movies and shows have been all over the place
Fund new stories for crying out loud. Let the corpse of Star Wars alone
Thor you’ve put it perfectly. JEDI is one letter off from an anagram of idea. It’s an intrinsically positive word. It’s been used in popular culture for decades because it was established by Lucas as such. If a musician is referred to as a “musical Jedi”, pretty much anyone alive would take that as a positive. As opposed to anything “flawed”. Thankfully Headland’s “little project” will have no impact on that. Venestra can rest easy I guess. 😂 Jedi positive reputation intact.
Sadly it is exactly what I expected which is the next Last Jedi in terms of audience reaction and treatment of the fans from the media, and the show is just not good when you look past all of that.
Not entirely.
Far from Last Jedi. I hated Last Jedi and I was almost done with Star Wars after it because it didn't even feel like star wars and even the main cast complained about it. I LOVE the Acolyte and it's my favorite season 1 of a Star Wars show ever. It's Star Wars on steroids. The people who loved the Last Jedi seemed to be all general audience fans while serious fans hated it while this time the hate is coming from the general audience and people who complain about everything being woke or having an agenda. Last Jedi needed a course correction. The Acolyte is already working on season 3. Yes 3. I have yet to find a single person hate the Acolyte that wasn't some random internet person. After the Last Jedi, it felt unanimous that Star Wars fans hated it. Anyway, the Acolyte rules and the haters crack me up. I think they thought they were gonna get the high republic books cancelled too but that didn't work out for them despite how much the internet convinced everyone they were hated by all.
@@sethmeyer2443 sounds like you're trying to convince yourself rather than everyone else lol
@@achaudhari101back to ragebaiting, Alex?
“Luke I am your father”
Hey Thor, listening to your thoughts on the show, I do wonder if the story would have worked better if it had aligned with the prequels more, in that the republic senate could have been included actively interacting with the Jedi. The show could have shown the beginnings of the corruption that would plague the senate one hundred years later, individual’s and groups directing the Jedi to undertake task that are morally grey but are clearly for the perceived good of the republic. The Jedi could have been shown to be conflicted, padawan, knights and masters disagreeing on whether they should be doing these things, but the order is increasingly intertwined with the republic senate and the idea of service that dissenters fall into line with the ideal of what a Jedi is in this time.
We got Skeleton crew after this then the holy grail andor s2, hopefully skeleton crew isn’t shit, and hopefully andor s2 isn’t a let down. Then after that I have no idea wtf Star Wars is gonna go
Everyone must remember the days of “lukewarm Ian your father” are dead and gone!!!! This is the age of”the power of ONE the power of TWO the power of MANY”!!!!!
I get the distinct impression that everyone involved in the creation of that show hates the original movies and what they stood for and are trying their best to re canonise the universe.
They should have shown the story chronologically. Then the death of Trinity would have mattered.
Whew... I was worried for a min that Thor turned to the Darkside. I appreciate the head fake. 🤣🙏
I was going to say even without the Obi-Wan quote being brought up in this video. The Jedi are supposed to be guardians of peace and justice. It's a very simple concept, and it is made interesting by the scale on which they work and the process by which they do it.
Jedi are superpowered beings who devote years of their life to developing a greater understanding of the spiritual and metaphysical connection they have to the universe. They don't need to be perfect, ultra-wise monks who never make mistakes. But I do want them to be more complete and ideal versions of regular people. That's why I'm not interested in a story that tries to inject nuance and questionable morality into their institution. That's a good story for a show like Andor, where regular people face conflict that we can relate to an experience in real life. When it comes to the Jedi and Sith, I want more philosophical and fantastical stories featuring pretty clear good guys and bad guys. That doesn't mean a simple story with a lack of complexity. Knights of the Old Republic was a straightforward, fairly basic story, but it wasn't shallow.
Umm... what? Andor is faaaar too dull to be considered a good series. I've seen better everyday shows that had better writing than Andor.
@@mazkeraid4039 shutup
@@darkphoenix2 And just like that, you pretty much denied that you are suckered into Disney Plus show that was spearheaded by Bob Iger.
@@mazkeraid4039 ok that made no sense
@@darkphoenix2 That is me saying you are being baited by getting Disney Plus subscription.