Jim Cornette on Ric Flair Saying Randy Savage Wasn't A Great Worker
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
- From Episode 212 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Guest Artist: Steve McGinnis (www.steveillus... & www.instagram....)
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Savage was the total package. He could talk, he could work, and he could sell. Savage managed to make the Warrior look good, twice, something even Flair couldn't do.
Lmao very true.
The real total package was Lex Luger 💪
@@chrisvietro4360 I had a feeling someone would say that.
Flair made Sting 🦂 look good…same thing!
😄😂yikes😄😂👍💯
Macho was a hybrid. Looked like a big man, moved like a cruiser weight. Could do power and acrobatic stuff. Exactly what you would hope for in a wrestler
He was smart, he knew there were bigger guys than him who would overshadow him when on the screen together, so he came up with the idea of raising his shoulders which made him look bigger.
He was much better up until he started to work with Hogan when he got heavily on the gas and became all obsessed with his look trying to compete with Hogan at the expense of his in ring skills. He could still do it obviously but he just had a more heavy less agile feeling about his matches from then onwards. He didn't fly around quite as lightly and agilie like his pre 1988 period. U could tell he was more concerned about his body & trying to look as big as Hogan because he knew they were going to be a tag team together probably at least several months prior.
@@cutekanjii dude was nearing 40 in 1989.
@@32lara3236 is far away from 40 in the wrestling business.
Macho was skinny most of his career.
Randy Savage was my favourite as a kid...Show me someone else so overwhelmed when winning big matches. His emotion and expression made it feel like he'd genuinely been to war in the ring .RIP Macho Man
My favorite as well.
Mine too
He was my most consistent favourite. I had several fazes, Jake Roberts, Sting and Lex Luger but Randy was most definitely my all time and most consistent favourite.
Savage was just over the top. Totally my all time favorite both as a kid and now. Promo, ring attire, ring work... I think he doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's on my mount Rushmore and I have no qualms about it.
Same. Exactly! 💯💯
Randy savage is one of the greatest , most memorable wrestlers… ric sound like a fn hater.
What do you expect from Ric Flair He said Jerry lawler Was a disgrace too professional wrestling And we all know Jerry Lawler is one of the greats In the business
Ric Flair and Steamboat called in the ring.
Randy Savage and Steamboat written on a yellow legalpad ahead of time.
This is the classic argument. Steamboat says this and likes the Flair series of 3 in 1989 better than Wrestlemania 3.
He also said Bret Hart was lucky to have been in the business 🤦🏽♂️
If your matches are that good because of practising, than by all means... PRACTICE!!
Savage is bigger than any one person's opinion. Mr. Flair has earned his opinion moreso than nearly everyone. Go organize your shoes.
Never ceases to amaze me that no matter how much time goes by, Ric and Hogan are still so insecure that they have to keep talking crap about Randy to make themselves look better. It speaks even louder to the greatness of Savage that these two top guys still feel the need to put him down to elevate themselves. Savage fan forever! Madness rules! Oh yeah!
🙌🏾🙌🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Fuckn Aye !!! 💪
Could savage call it in the ring for an hour? Flair could. Insecure😆😆
@@davestuddaman8127 Why would you need to call a match for an hour? That was not a regular occurrence. Once again, can't just appreciate someone's work and say both were great. Always they need to make a negative comment
Also, doesn't matter what gets called in the ring if the guy you're in the ring with can't execute it. Savage always made it look good.
Randy savage might be the most complete pro wrestler to ever live. A+ when it comes to working, talking, and look. Unmatched charisma. A top star in a golden era. Innovative and no one else like him longevity and a legit athlete. The only critique savage can get is the backstage stuff.
And most of that backstage stuff is just a load of shit made up by jealous losers.
@TheJoeGreene lmao just a good draw. Randy savage transcended wrestling he is one of the 5-10 wrestling stars that became bigger than wrestling. What makes him just a good draw?? He was a top star for an extended period during the golden era of wrestling. More wwe manipulation degrading his legacy you crazy. Even wwe has finally admitted in the Randy savage documentary Randy was competing with hogan for merchandise sales. In the late 80s
@@chicken31947 I said he’s an A+ worker, talker, and body look. What makes him not a great worker.
Exactly... plus was amazing as a face or heel.
@TheJoeGreene first, being a draw and being a great worker are two different things. Second, Savage was a draw. He did just fine as the WWF Champion for a year in the middle of the Hulkamania years. Compare his house show numbers to Flairs.
Regardless what happens behind the scenes. Savage's instincts for what works, psychology, smoothness, emotion etc was absolutely elite. I've watched 100s of Savage matches and for me he is unrivalled even to this day as a performer in so many ways. He's one of the only guys who can be a heel one day and a baby-face the next and make it totally believable. Hell he switched in minutes at WM7 and I believed every second of it.
Exactly! It's one thing for an all time GOAT like Flair to mention this. He has room to talk. Smarks will smark though. I dont care, Savage was great, and his shit still holds up. I dont care if he called it in the ring or not. Makes zero difference to me. Bill Walsh scripted the 49ers first 20 plays. Does Joe Montana suck because he performed high level pre scripted plays?
Very well said 👍👍👍💯💯💯
@@brentondudley3925 👍
He was amazing
@@brentondudley3925 Hell they still script plays for the first 10 to 20 offensive playes to this day in the NFL because of Walk Belichick did it with Brady
Hogan used to invite people over to drink and chill, macho man invited people over to sit down and go over the match. He was very attentive to detail
I loved both Hogan and Savage’s styles in different ways, I always hear some people hated Macho Man’s meticulousness and desire to stick to the script, but he was a great for a reason. No disrespect to Flair’s performances, but I always pulled for The Madness over The Nature Boy.
@@r.josedefraga1205 All 3 ways worked which I prefer Randy Savage way of doing things.. but I do feel Ric as I come back to the video and the reason why I feel Ric Flair on this one cause if you call it in the ring you can call an audible if sh_t goes south in Randy's style if one thing goes wrong within the plan of the match it will throw everyone completely off.. You can't call an audible when everything is planned out.. But I wholeheartedly disagree with Ric saying Randy Savage was a terrible worker.. That's Bullsh_t..
Savage was a true professional.
That is lame, a real worker does on the fly in the ring, because you have to work off the crowd.
@@rickstalentedtongue910 thats every aew match and they bored af during a match lol
Let me put it this way: I can get into Randy Savage matches a lot more than I can Ric Flair matches.
Yup.
"That's not the way we do things!" - This is the attitude of a bad company that fails to innovate and dies a slow death. What's relevant about the Savage and Steamboat match is not whether it was done differently but rather how the product turned out. If it takes a script to make an awesome match, then better to use a script instead of seeing an impromptu or improvised shitty match.
@Jay Bee No, but it sure as hell helps. Flair was a terrible worker from an in-ring standpoint. As far as promos and that aspect, he was believable enough, but the in-ring shit he did wasn't good at all.
You and everyone else. Flair is super overated..
So true
Jim explains this perfectly. The whole reason for scripting the WM3 match was because of the time constraints. Could they have had the same match calling it in the ring? Sure, but it would've gone twice as long adding in the rest holds needed for calling spots. Vince was never going to go for that. They had an all-time classic match compacted into a Vince-palatable timeframe.
Vince always went for it, it was not needed and made too much pre work to put on a match. Steamboat said the same thing, he thought the WM 3 match was not as impressive because it was scripted out, and he was far more proud of his match with Flair because all was done on the fly in ring.
The feeling was mutual with Randy. Just different styles, but there’s no arguing Savage’s entire body of work stands up to anybody’s in history. It doesn’t matter how it was done, at least to the viewing public. In his athletic prime, Savage did things Flair could only dream of.
"OH YEAH!"
Savage didn't do anything athletically that Flair hadn't already done. . .
Savage played for the Cincinnati Reds in the late 60s before suffering a career ending injury, which is what lead him to follow in his dad's footsteps and become a wrestler. Savage was an incredible athlete. Flair was just a tool.
Flair always shit on people that others praised that seems to be why most them hated him going by all the stories over the years
@@quentinkaasa47 I want some of what you are smoking after that comment. If you can say what Rick did in the ring was athletically what Randy did then we have two different versions of what an athlete looks like lol. But I respect you having your opinion.
Flair admitted he couldn’t do a thing with Ultimate Warrior. Savage carried him to two amazing matches.
Theres a difference in carrying over a match and trying to make a great match. Flair always wanted to make a good match. Ultimate warrior just wouldnt play ball because he didnt know how to fucking play the said ball. You can always hard carry your opposition through and it can go from Savage vs Warrior grade to Triple H vs Great Khali grade. So I dont blame for flair not wanting to take that dance. Keeping in mind that Flair wanted to do Imprompt and Savage would just write a script for warrior to follow so everything went according to plan. In short the two are not in comparable level.
@@_NutcasE_ I disagree. Their wm 7 match was one my most memorable childhood moments. We loved it. My mom (who hated wrestling) cried. We didn’t know or care that Warrior was a poor wrestler because Savage protected him.
Flair despite knowing beforehand that his opponent was extremely limited stinks the ring up. Exposes warrior as a poor wrestler. Sends the fans home unhappy. Outcome is important.
BS Warrior was the man and flair saying he couldn't do anything with warrior i thought flair could work with a broomstick i think it says a lot more about flair then warrior.
@@ryanwilliams8390 Warrior by everyone involved with him has said including himself that he wasnt good worker. He couldnt wrestle and his matches made Hogans antiques look like bret hart level matches. Only reason why Warrior looked good with savage is because savage wrote him a role.
@@_NutcasE_ warrior never said he wasn't a good worker he said he never said he didn't get blown up and warrior had to work the style to be the ultimate warrior now he wasn't as technical as savage forsure i agree but he was the man.
Savage is a prime example of what a professional wrestler should be. Ric is one of the greatest but he's wrong on this one.
Flair wasn't wrong. Jim just explained why that is.
I agree with you but, WcW Savage was crap, Ric only worked with Savage in WcW.
Ric Flair said the same about Bret Hart! I love Ric but sometimes he is full of it.. Randy Savage is what a pro wrestler should be! What the hell is Ric on??
@@quentinkaasa47 Ric said the same about Bret Hart.. Come on man! Really???
@@kenrickeason Jim once said Brett have a big Weiner, maybe Ric was penis envy
The most memorable thing Flair done in the WWF during his first run, was his feud and match (at Mania 8) was with Randy!! Savage was the man!! Promo, look, ability! He had the lot!!
I was glad when Flair left WWF
@Jay Bee You know how WWF/WWE work.. if they see potential in you, they will use you to the moon.. but when they see your time with them whining down or your popularity dying down they will poorly use you until you leave their company and go elsewhere..
"bell to bell could it have been more than 15 minutes?"
Savage/steamboat at WM 3 was exactly 14 minutes, 35 seconds. Damn jim is good.
14 minutes, 35 seconds, and 22 near-falls.
Flair literally said that about Bret as well. Dude is insane. Randy is my all time favorite. Rick Rude is number two. Bobby Heenan my favorite all around worker when you take into account in ring, manager, commentary, and his work on prime time.
Yeah Flair had longer matches because he would be flat 10 minutes resting in the Mat while doing or receiving a figure four leg lock. Not to mention all his flops... Randy Savage was a cat in the ring & was very entertaining. He was a perfectionist. Hogan said, His brother said it, as well as others. Flair just jealous...
Love Rick Rude! Rude is my favorite and Savage is my number 2. Bret Hart is my number3. Flair has always been a ass to guys who didn’t kiss his ass
Macho Man was great, Bret Hart sucks. Flair is right half the time
@@awesomehigames you are on crack
@@MetalMatrix92 Bret Hart always cries about Goldberg giving him a concussion. Watch the clip, it's Bret's fault for trying to block a superkick with his arm
Flair is off his nut. Savage was a Class A worker. He fell off just a hair in WCW, but heck, by then he was worn down a bit and probably trusting to modern chemistry a little bit.
Savage was on the roids in WWF as well. One of his breaks was when he and Liz were trying to have a kid, so he wanted to get off the gas to help his chances. By the time WCW came calling his hip was in bad shape from all the elbow drops.
@@AnsticePalo I meant more than Uncle Terry’s Little Helper. I meant drugs.
Flair isn't judging Savages work the same way as the audience would. Flair is judging him from a different point of view thinking that a good worker wouldn't have to plan a match.
@@mblair5327 Savage was an obsessive when it came to match details but he was also able to adjust in the ring, too (from what I remember). His work was snug, though. I’ve gone back and re-watched a lot of his stuff as an adult and am still amazed by how tight his in-ring game was.
Easily up there with the top five guys.
@@joemamaluke I'm not a Flair fan and Savage is my all time favorite. But I was clarifying is perspective. Flair wasn't talking about the quality of his matches but the fact that Savage had to plan them. I remember Steamboat complaining about it too. That may not be how we judge Savage but having to work with him is different.
Best top rope elbow in the business. Savage could do things both Hogan and Warrior could only dream of. He had some of the most creative and entertaining promos in the history of Pro Wrestling add to that his iconic look and charisma that made him a household name and Pop Culture Legend. Sorry Naitch but The Madness will forever rule The Wrestling World...Ooooh Yeahhhhh!!!
Too bad Hogan was better
@@tyheavenlywings7760 Hogan was popular. That's it.
@@tyheavenlywings7760 he really wasnt tho
@TheJoeGreene well, only things Randy Savage and Ultimate Warrior are drawing, now, are daisies, unless, they're ashes, OC; so, THAT's more present.
@@tyheavenlywings7760 Hogan snitched his way to the top... He was Vince's ear when Vince won't around and when he couldn't get anymore from Vince that he did he said Vince's pay was "Inadequate" and left to WCW and sucked ass till he got to the top, and pretty much rode on Sting's, Kevin Nash, and Scott Hall's coat tails till the end... Hogan was popular by chance not by professionalism or sportsmanship, look how he cried and sued about the Undertaker tombstone on a steel chair. Jesse Ventura will tell u all u need to know and Jim Cornette will tell u he was the biggest liar in ALLLLLL wrestling history
Savage was 4 decades ahead of the game and a better worker than Flair could even dream of being.
Flair had the same match every single time. Just go look at all his matches with Hogan. It didn’t matter who was heel or babyface between those two, they always had the same match.
Heel or Face, Randy Savage was my absolute favourite when I was growing up, he was amazing! Aggressive, intense, believable. An incredible heel in particular.
Steamboat Vs Savage is still one of greatest matches in Wrestlemania history. Savage was one of the only wrestlers to get 2 great matches out of the Ultimate Warrior. Savage literally elevated Diamond Dallas Page and made him a main event star. Savage matches like Bret Harts matches looked real and intense. You really thought he hated his opponents. Flair doesn't know what he's talking about.
Even in WCW I always enjoyed Macho’s matches more than Flair’s.
In 2004 Ric was having long, competitive singles matches on a regular basis, while Randy needed Styles and Jeff Hardy to work the bulk of a match for him because he couldn't bump.
@@quentinkaasa47 what's your point
@@quentinkaasa47 In 2004, Ric was also getting sued by airlines for doing helicopter dicks and sexually assaulting stewardesses too, but hey, neither here nor there. Flair wasn't doing flying elbow drops for 30 years and destroying his body like Savage either. Flair matches were always fuckin boring.
@UCwzd8oonlx4Dh4qMvFTXd7w you sound like an idiot. Flair has miles on his body than anyone. Flair was far and away a much better worker. He made everyone look good and cut the best promos. When did Savage wrestle for an hour to hour and a half regularly?
@Aaron9 Yeah, ok, pal.
Man. Ric is on a losing streak right now. Of all the people to say can't work, he picks Macho. Randy's style was ahead of its time. Maybe that was the problem for Flair.
This was 18 years ago
You are aware the quote is coming from Flair's autobiography, which was written many years ago?
Randy good,not Flair great.
@@dustin6528 well then he was wrong 18 years ago too
@@henrywaller4297 and you're point? Doesn't matter when it was written. 18 years ago or 18 minutes ago, it was said and it was a dumb thing to say.
This is why Cornette is such a good listen. He’s got the stories, he knows the history, and when he tells it, he makes it entertaining.
According to Bret Hart, Randy didn’t think highly of Flair’s work either and said he didn’t have good ring psychology.
Their matches in wcw were fun because of the animosity real or not.
That is crazy talk! Randy Savage might be the most complete Wrestler Ever (Wrestling, Safe, Looks, Personality, Promo, Story Teller etc.)
I agree 100% flair barking up the wrong tree ,he is definitely more complete than anybody an he knew how to evolve always was something different evernight from the promos to the tights.
Bret hart gives him a 7
@@starrhunnids7516 the guy who still thinks he knows wrestling better than anyone? Yeah who cares lol
Savage is the most complete wrestler ever......But that could also be said for Flair.
@@jerry85g7 and Shawn Michaels
Randy savage was an elite worker. He would have been a main eventer in any era of wrestling.
There is no need for a discussion.
Easy to say Flair could have a match with anyone because they had his match with his moves and his bumps, same match so often. For me, Flair has always been a bit overrated.
You can say that
He was one hell of a talker tho lol
I agree I never seen 80s and before flair but what I did see, I didn't like him. He was just cartoonish, I couldn't understand his outta breathe promos half the time, yes sometimes they were funny and cool but for me it wasnt good most of the time... Give me a macho man promo everytime over Flair... Also flair doesn't wanna give credit to macho because flair and steamboat were big so he not home day another guy had a better match with steamboat then him
@@morty215fightclubbringyour7 definetly and im not saying he's not the greatest because he is. He shouldn't be critical of other's work though because while his stamina and promos were probably the best ever his matches for the most part were very similar. That is something you cannot say about Savage.
Very overrated.
Flair should have wrote down more things...he might have remembered them. Like his wedding vows; paying his debts, and not wagging his hammer in stranger's faces.
All of those things are what makes him great. He’s not interesting if he loves his life the right way.
@@Hopealliswell6054 I love Naitch but when I go back and watch Flair/Steamboat I can't say I'm thinking "man, I love this match because of how Flair isn't faithful to his family, doesn't pay his debts and helicopters his dick in stewardesses' faces." Not entirely sure that those particular things are what make him great, seems like it'd be just as good of a match if he kept his dick in his pants in public places.
He wagged it your face and you named it Hammer😳 You're nasty Playa 😱
Flair lived his gimmick you can call him whatever you want as a result but the man was exactly as advertised and if the Plane Ride from Hell episode of Dark Side of the Ring shocked you in regards to who Flair really was then you were never really a fan of wrestling
And let's be perfectly clear Machos wife left him because he cheated and he died broke I'm not judging the man but he wasn't a model citizen him damn self he got so desperate for money he did a cameo in Spiderman
Lmao
Man I've seen both of these guys live so many times. In his prime Savage was a great worker. Back in the 80's when Savage did his finishing move pausing on the top turnbuckle raising his arms, the flashes from the cameras was absolutely blinding like nothing else I've seen. In the end of the day none of it matters if you are not over and by extension generating lots of money for the promotion. Randy did both at a really high standard and transcended the sport. I'd say one of the best for sure and would be on anyone's all star roster.
I still dont know how Savage did that jump from the top rope to the arena floor every night and not wreck his knees or ankles. His brother Lanny said he tried it once and nearly crippled himself
I’d rather watch macho man than flair every single time
Same here.
I love both Flair and Savage but Ric sounds like he's really full of himself. Now I see where his overrated daughter gets it.
the macho man varied his matched and kept innovating.
@@exilhamburger4802 and didnt sell a fraction of the tickets Flair did, doing the same thing every match. That should tell you something.
@@godphoenix66x They're BOTH my all time FAVES! At least Ric was very specific about what he was referring to! In fairness to Randy, it was probably tricky to improvise when Vince wanted short matches in those days! BTW, I'm a Becky Lynch fan but no way would I call Charlotte Flair "over rated", like her pop she can wrestle anybody and make it exciting!
I'd rather watch a Savage match than a Flair match.
No question, Watching a flabby Ric Flair chop people and bump like a cartoon character never worked for me.
Anybody that could get a great match out of the Ultimate Warrior is a great worker in my eyes.
I always felt Flair's opinion of other wrestlers work was usually wrong, especially his opinion of Bret Hart and Mick Foley.
Flair’s matches with Warrior were awful.
It's just pride fkn with him. F pride. It'll only hurt you.... Marcelis Wallace
By this logic Hulk Hogan is a great worker, WM6 main event is a great match (admittedly mostly because of booking/ atomsphere). I agree with your other point just saying this puts Hogan in that same category.
@@walsh9080 Pat Patterson had a large role in that.
Hogan also got a great match out of Warrior. Flair is incredibly overrated in my opinion.
Undertaker to DDP- “I don’t need notes to know that I’m going to whoop your ass the whole match”
Just watched a couple of Macho Man's promos last night. To say that they weren't short of genius would be criminal. Idk what Flair is on but Randy Savage's promos are probably the best promos I've ever seen
Savage and Piper are the goats. Flair is ultra overrated.
Hogan was the best promo guy ever IMO!
Savage was the cream of the crop with he’s little cream cup.
Dusty Rhodes => greatest promos ever
Cup of Cwoffe in the BIG TIME OOOH YEAHH
I don’t see a problem with scripting matches. Seems more difficult and there would be no chance to be seen talking to your opponent. Bret Hart scripted the entire 92’ summerslam match vs Davey and it was an all-time classic
Didn’t he script his match v stone cold at wrestlemania 13 too?
He scripted the match but it went all the window 5 min in, when Davey told him he remembered nothing-then Bret proceeded to carry him through the match and talk to him the whole way.
Scripted, but also made on the fly when Davey was compromised.
"Bret I'm fucked"- Davey Boy Smith 😂😂🤣🤣
Still my favorite match
Come on Rick, savage is one of the greatest. I watched his matches growing up, he was brilliant.
I think people miss the point. Flair wasn't judging his matches he was judging him by his need to plan and script them.
I get what he means but still, it's crazy for him to say that considering his matches with Randy (particularly the match at WM 8) were always great.
Rick Flair in his prime could have a great match with Marko Stunt.
@@bipolarminddroppings Savage in his prime could have a great match with a blow up doll. Which is several levels of better skill and charisma than Marko Stunt.
@@drg5352 no best match was with steamboat. Ric best matches were with steamboat.
@@bipolarminddroppings in his prime he could even have a great match with Tevin Landry !
I was about to say the same thing. Savage put together some great matches with Warrior(Wrestlemania 7 & SummerSlam 92) Steamboat at WM3 & we could've had the rematch at WM 4 in WWF World Championship tournament but Steamboat wanted to take time off because his wife at the time was preggo & he was getting ready to make some serious bread with the IC title & with Flair at WM 8. At the time Flair wrote this book & even he admitted in a promo with Mick Foley back in 2006 that he wrote this book while drinking a bottle of wine, so he was unleashing some drunken thoughts then, let's also not forget he was kissing Triple-H's ass
Savage may not have had “The Helicopter” in his arsenal, but he was far, far superior to Flair in every way.
Well said, flair is overrated af
@@jamespaul6315 💯💯💯💎💎💎
Savage would have probably pierced the aircraft fuselage and decapitated several people if he was on the plane ride from hell and did a helicopter like Flair. Flair was always jealous of Savage.
Omg 🤣
@@jeremydubeck4439 Hahahhahahahahah!!!
Ric is my all time favorite wrestler but I gotta disagree with him heavily on him saying Savage wasn’t a great worker. In my humble opinion, he’s WWE top 10 all time and most definitely the greatest IC champ of all time!
I think this is also the reason the Bret Hart matches vs flair were crap. Bret talked about flair doing things on a whim and messing things up.
Sting said the same thing Flair like to wing it
Yeah, Bret called Flair's psychology "The no psychology - psychology"
And let's not forget, you can see it over and over, when Flair get's stuck, and calls something, it's often the SAME thing he's called a million times. Repeating the same spots over and over.
I actually have the Match Bret talked about. Flair works Bret's leg, and works the leg, and works the leg....
And then shoots Bret off and calls all his running around spots.
Now wait a minute...how is Bret, whose Leg has been badly beaten, supposed to be running around?
That's what Bret means with his "Non-stop non-psychology."
Flair was locked in NWA champion mode. Not his fault, he spent decades doing it when it was the RIGHT THING to do. He'd show up in a town, wrestle someone he had probably never met, and had to run the whole thing. So of course he did shit that worked over and over. Nobody else ever saw it but the people that were there.
Bret came up in the era of tape. He, and his generation, had to keep mixing shit up or people would notice. Yes, before anyone says it, Bret had his finisher routine too. Because literally everyone in the building knew, when Bret hit that russian leg sweep, just where he was going.
Point being, Bret figured out the "Story" of the match before he got there, and then went into the match calling along that narrative. Nash talked about him doing it, Foley did, Savage did, I think even Shawn brought it up.
@@MaxxCoyote very well said Flair was definitely in NWA champ mode and never changed out of it. Bret IMO surpassed Flair in 1992 as the best wrestler.
@@MaxxCoyote Yeah i watched their match from early 92 too recently. Utter crap, and Flair was calling it.
Ric Flair is a great wrestler, but history shows that Ric Flair, while a great performer, does not have the best judgment At critiquing other wrestlers.
You mean like Gangrel? 🤔
Very true
@Aaron9 David Flair says hi
They made Flair champion for the wrong reasons: matches too damn predictable!
Oh man Ric, call out anyone else but Macho Man. Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage is still the greatest wrestling match of all time.
Flair vs. Steamboat was just as good.
Barry windham also had some great matches with them as well
savage vs Jake Roberts was a great match but maybe not better than steamboat vs savage
@TheJoeGreene that makes no sense. So the performance doesnt matter😂 just who's on the top of the card
@TheJoeGreene i know its debatabale but pro-wrestling isn't only a business, for some people it's a form of art. I personally don't think your in-ring work shoud be rated only on how many payed to come watch it (and it's quite hard to enstablish it since matches are usually part of bigger cards, you can't say everyone has come only to see the main event, maybe they want to watch your match and your match only, or it could be a sum of different factors)
Flair didn't need to write his matches down because he's only ever done one match for 35 years
Granted, it's a pretty damn good match, but yea, do it that much....
🤣🤣🤣🤣👊🏾
Flair could wrestle the broomstick for 59.57 and until that point you thought the broomstick would take the title, but his match was very spot laden with certain points having to be done to get Flair the heat or the cheer.
Flair's conduct outside of the ring could very unprofessional, his stripping off and trying to approach women naked is well documented along with his period as the WCW booker were his only interest was in pushing the Horsemen and wrestlers who could work with them.
Savage on the other hand was spot on with his psychology and timing and his moves looked like they did hurt when he was a guy who was a total professional, his own issues were his demons regarding his paranoia esepcially with Hogan over losing his main event status.
Flair incidentally is way of the mark on that comment, very few guys could drag a good match out of the Ultimate Warrior and Randy was one of them, Flair never faced the Ultimate Warrior so he has no reason to question Randy's in ring skills when could he have done the same with the Ultimate Warrior?
Ha!!! I’m going to steal that line. Great shit!!!!
EXACTLY!!!!!
Randy Savage is my favorite wrestler ever, so maybe I'm biased. But imo he is the most complete wrestler of all time. Ric Flair's statement is ridiculous.
“Full blast nonstop non-psychology” -Bret on Flair’s style LOL
Come on now.. Flair had psychology in his matches.. Bret Hart is top 5 tho
That style worked for Flair's gimmick and made him who he is, he never stopped moving, selling, working...it's incredible actually.
@@hulkwarrior and doing a lot of things that don’t make sense
@@ZBR_ProXP wrestling doesn't make a whole lot of sense
@@hulkwarrior The more sense it makes, the fans become more immersed. Simple logic.
Flair has a habit of trying to undermine guys who in turn didn't really rate him. I know Bret and Randy stated if you have seen one Flair match you've seen them all and there is some truth to that but I don't think there's any malicious feelings from them.
No there isn't, Flair just hates it when people don't kiss his racist ass.
Every Flair match is the same they're boring and completely repetitive and watching a grandfather work even in the nineties was never appealing
Even Bruno Samartino said the same thing you seen one flair match you seen them all. Ric did the same shit over and over he didn't adapt or change in the ring
funny thing is i feel the same way about Bret...you seen one you seen them all.
Both Hogan and Flair had the same match for 30+ years....BUT nobody influenced this business more than those 2, in the past 50 years.
Gorgeous George
Hulk Hogan
Ric Flair
Lou Thez
The Mt. Rushmore of wrestling....
I could see if he said Savage wasn't his kind of worker, but to say he wasn't a good worker though. Savage could go man
He said that he wouldn't call Savage a good worker. So that's essentially saying based on his opinion of what a good worker is,he doesn't consider Savage that. The average fan isn't seeing what Flair is seeing anyway. I loved watching Flair,Macho Madness and Bret. If the match is fun and gets you emotionally invested that's all I care about.
@@carbon.the.christ5626 Absolutely! I hear where you coming from. Totally agree
Ric had one match and they are all the same ,you seen one you seen them all.
"Flair seemed underwhelmed by Savage's match with Steamboat at wrestlemania" funny I feel that way about all of Flair's matches
Savage accomplished exactly what he intended to. That match was absolutely more memorable than Hulk going over Andre, I can almost remember the adrenaline I felt as a little kid watching it.
You can’t tell me it was more memorable 😅 definitely a better match but no chance in hell that it’s more memorable
@@Ghost-Face420 Andre looked terrible, the slam looked kinda weak, wasn’t my cup of tea. My friends and I cared way more about macho man than hogan in general.
Savage vs Warrior at Wrestlemania 7 is still one of the greatest pro wrestling matches ever. Those 2 guys took the fans on an emotional ride .
That match was like a Looney Tunes cartoon.
I like warrior but you cant say any match he was in to be one of the greatest of all time. His 3 best matches were against Hogan rude and savage and I wouldnt say any of those matches were all that great.
@@citizenbeeswax7985 well it's an opinion thing. Curious, what matches do you think were great ?
The fact that Randy Savage could get a not only good but great match out of Warrior is a testament to how great Randy was.
@@TomE.V. Randy was just something else , wish he had match with
Heel Bret in 97
Macho, along with Rick Rude and Kurt Hennig were 3 of my fav wrestlers of any generation. Didnt see enough of Flair till he came to WWF and that wasnt his best work/days
he wasnt much better in nwa or wcw. what you saw in wwf wwe was flairs match.... pending on if hes heel or face, one spot changes... the flip upside down in the corner will bump off the apron and fall to the floor if heel.... as a face, flair will flip up and over the top rope.. land on the apron, run to the oppsite and land an axe handle... as heel, he would get slammed from the top... backhand chop, left jab, right hook, back up to the ropes and drop a knee and roll out.......
agreed, Macho, Rude, and Hennig we're all better than Flair 👍🏽
Rics been drinking again
Flair was an improviser. Savage was a planner. Just a styles clash but they did have great matches together.
Most of Savage's matches were called in the ring. Many wrestlers called him a great ring General. He only scripted his high profile ppv matches.
Except the title match so bad Vince made Flair and Savage go right back out and redo it.
@@kelman727the one at the TV taping? Wasn’t that because Flair refused to work the leg?
By any definition of "good worker" or doing "good work", Randy Savage was it. If Flair wants to criticize him for liking to plan his matches in detail, that's fine, but to say that doesn't make him a good worker is ridiculous.
Savage was a genius in that sense, same as Hart. They liked to have a plan, an idea of where everything was going. Not just "I dunno, we'll wing it, I'll do my stupid cartoon spots, and we'll go home".
....flair you've gone fucking nuts.
Simply a contrast in style.. Flair liked a more methodical pace, target certain body parts mainly the lower region plus outside interference from the Horseman before eventually applying the figure four. Savage was a fast paced explosive style but still knew how to be technical and savvy. Savage vs Steamboat at WM 3 was a classic example of Savage at his pure best.
"Wrestlemania 3 Pontiac Silverdome, 90,000 people and this is Ricky Steamboat's cup of coffee in the Big Time...CUP OF COFFEE IN THE BIG TIME!!!"
Watch the Flair /Brody match, Flair vs Windham Crockett cup 87, Flair vs Kerry in Japan. Flair vs Harley Race at the Meadowlands. No Horseman. NO gimmicks. Just purd wrestling at its highest level. I guarantee you will have a different perspective on Ric Flair
@TheJoeGreene and it elevated him. For real, every comment you've made on this video post is absolute lunacy.
@TheJoeGreene Well that is quite obvious now isn't it? "The irresistible force meets the immovable object" Absolutely Hogan vs Andre was the Main Draw but that promo that Savage did on Steamboat is some hilarious stuff especially when you consider the possibility of Randy having some *snort of inspiration in that moment or maybe it was just all that coffee he drank.
"I've been in the Danger Zone" - Randy Savage
Savage was ahead of his time in the ring, in the late '90s he could still go at a high level.
Translation: "Savage was a better worker than I was." At least later in his career, all of Flair's matches were almost identical.
Ric Flair just lost tons of respect. He wishes he was as good as Savage. Of course Cornette will defend Flair. Always.
Loyalty, for crediting Flair for what he's done for his career.
Yea. I love Jim, but his Flair worship always drives me nuts. He always shits all over Hogan when he does the same exact shit that Flair does, but when Flair does it its genius and amazing.
@@jeremydubeck4439 Likely it's an NWA vs WWE thing, cause he was always critical of WWE and them making it a cartoon.
Cornette literally said he thought Savage was a good worker and so disagreed with Ric. He's simply giving the pov from the Flair style of approaching pro wrestling. All he's saying is, this is probably why, and honestly I can understand his points too
@@michaelpachuau3885 Were not talking about this in particular. Were talking about how in the past, Corny always worships Flair and praises Flair for his matches, shenanigans, schtick, etc, but then he'll shit on other wrestlers who do the same exact shit that Flair does and call them pieces of crap and terrible wrestlers, etc.
I think it's jealousy on naitch's part..macho man was an incredible worker
Ooooh Yeeah! Dig it!
Flair sometimes makes me scratch my head when he says things like this.
But Flair wasn't judging the quality of the matches. He was judging him by the fact that he needed to plan them to get a good result.
@@MABMGuitar I know. I have it. And I had the same reaction then.
@@mblair5327 The result was the result.
@@ferox965 But he is talking about having to work with him not the match quality.
Flair sounds like these rappers that say "I don't write my rhymes down,I just remember them".As a fan I don't care if you write your rhymes or not. If you need to write it out to give me a classic,write it down. If Macho could write it down and make his matches a fun watch,I don't see the problem.
OMG, your illustrations just keep getting BETTER AND BETTER! Keep up the superb work!!
Ric Flair had one match in his bag of tricks ... if he hadn't been good on the mic he never would've had a career.
Macho Man was a better worker than Flair
Flair was a worker, Savage was not. Many wrestlers criticize him for his needing to rehearse matches.
He was a better worker than flair. Flair only had promos
Randy's feud with Hogan in the 80's is what got me into watching wrestling as a kid. I respect Flair but disagree with this remark.
Savage is a genuine contender for the greatest of all time. Or, as he may have put it "The cream of the crop".
The first LIVE wrestling show I ever went to was RIC FLAIR vs RANDY SAVAGE for the WWF World Title, at The Spectrum in Philadelphia!
Two different styles. Also, I'm very biased towards Savage. My brain turns off when someone disses him, sorry.
Flair tripping. Macho Man was a better worker than him and Hogan far as workers.
Don’t think you know what wrestlers mean when they say workers… listen to the whole convo… Flair and Hogan didn’t script their matches for the most part and they wrestled in Japan all the time with no planned matches… Macho never did… Flair should have explained himself better to the people that don’t know the phrase “worker” Macho was awesome… but many wrestlers have said they were annoyed by him always wanting to script the match all the time
@@stalinzambrana5755 Mane He should’ve said he was annoying worker, but to say he wasn’t a good worker is bullshit. I ain’t going to lie I didn’t look at the video first. I understand what he mean now though.
@@stalinzambrana5755 To say he's a bad worker is not true! Randy Savage worked a match like it wasn't nobody's business.. Ric Flair should have said he was annoying to work with because the difference in Styles.. See how simple that was.. Ric didn't have to degrade the man's hard work..
LOL what does HH have to do with this discussion???
Flair knows: he never drew the money Hogan did and could never wrestle like Randy did.
Love the great new artwork for the videos!!
What about Flair having the same match doing the same stuff every single match???
Simply, Macho wasn’t a brown noser to WWE and Flair was. This is Flair kissing Vince’s ass again towing the company line. Macho was very much on Vince’s shit list at the time of Flair’s book release.
I really enjoyed this. I get both sides of the argument. Savage was no Ric Flair. But by the same token Flair was no Savage. Different ways to the top is all. And (edit) we're all blessed for our memories of both whichever you may have experienced or apprecieated first.
Flair's opinion of other wrestlers is pretty bad. Foley, Bret and Savage are all not great workers apparently. They are great workers and we're all better than him at certain times in their careers.
While I agree, who are we to tell arguably the best to ever don trunks that we know better than he does?
@Bipolar Mind Droppings well I would hope that we aren't full of shit like Flair and hopefully our brains aren't scrambled by decades of doing god knows what.
So on that basis I think we can most definitely tell him.
@@bipolarminddroppings ,Dude, it's wrestling. We are fans. WE decide who the greatest are.
@@bipolarminddroppings Because all too often, Flair's opinion flip-flops all over the place, and is usually spurned by his ego getting poked.
For instance, when Flair went off on Foley, Ric admitted that he had never even read what Foley wrote about him. All he knew was that someone told him "Mick took a shot at you." So with just that in mind, he goes off. Yet he never actually addresses what Mick actually said. Nor, do either of them actually, admit that the stupid "Cactus Jack in cleveland" storyline was foisted on both of them. Mick got pushed into it (and accepted it because it gave him paid time off with his family) before Flair was booker, and Flair basically inherited something that was pants on head stupid.
Which is really weird considering Mick and Ric basically did the same thing throughout their career. I.E Spend most of the Match getting beat down to make the other guy look good.
Ric makes a big deal out of Randy not "Calling it in the ring." Pointing to the match with Steamboat.
Yet, if you watch the Flair-Steamboat trilogy, as great as it is, you can literally see Flair do the same spots, the same way, in all three matches.
How can you criticize someone for planning things out, when you yourself always fall back on "Hey, let's do that thing we always do."?
With Bret, Flair always goes "He couldn't talk, and didn't draw." Well for one, yeah Flair was better on the mic then Bret for the most part. But Bret was better in the ring. Bret was believable, and actually HAD offense. The Sharpshooter actually beat people after all. Flair spent a career getting the fuck beat out of him, putting people in the Figure 4, only to have them just look at him (Sting) or simply get out (Everyone else) yet somehow keeping the belt (Making people hate him and want him to be beaten even more)
As for Drawing.....Well neither Bret nor Flair ever drew like Hogan. But Bret was literally the only thing post Hogan that WAS drawing the WWF anything. Especially overseas. Vince even readily admits that, and the receipts are out there.
And as an add-on to drawing. Let's not pretend Flair drew all by himself. Dusty, Sting, and all those guys were drawing the fans because said fans wanted to see them beat the fuck out of Flair. Flair was important sure, the heat he had critical absolutely, but Flair was facing titanically over Babyfaces as well. Dusty, the Road Warriors, and so on.
AND! Flair's draw was helped in those big years by being in the Horsemen. Other hated heels who were also putting in the work.
Point being, Flair wasn't alone in it.
Bret was. The WWF was in a big slump, all the big stars gone or fading, the steroid trial, all of Vince's failed attempts at other enterprises (The WBF for instance).
@TheJoeGreene ALL of them drew.. lol. Not as much as Flair in his prime....but still. Macho and Foley def drew. Bret in Canada and overseas was huge....
0:26 I feel like it is a crime to say that. That match is an all time great and still holds up today. That still fills me with emotion and tension every time I watch it
Randy Savage had everything! Complete perfection 👌
Name someone better at selling than Macho. Or just pure emotion in general.
probably only shawn michaels
@@jamesjones-ez9ug I guess it depends on what you like. Shawn was flashier and very entertaining but Macho made me believe he was hurt
Ricky Morton or Ricky Steamboat. That said, Randy was one hell of a seller.
I think Bret Hart would be up there with Macho Man. That sternum first in the turnbuckle spot and when he took shots to his gut always made me wince.
Sorry ric you're definitely wrong that ego is getting out of control
Yeah he said this nearly 20 years ago
Ok but literally…having the same match night after night as even Flair has admitted to,is the same as planning a match out! There’s limited “on the fly” because you know the match damn near off muscle memory at that point. Savage had top tier matches in places Ric Flair still hasnt seen “jet flyin”. I get Macho Man had humble beginnings with his dad and ICW but one thing Jim does that bothers me is downplay how over Savage was and though I like him,acting like Ric Flair was selling out arenas or breaking box offices compared to anybody in the WWF from 87-90. So now a great worker isnt measured by how believable his work is but how he chooses to work? Flair & Michaels revisionist love moving the goal post. Lol
I hope youre able to revisit this comment in another decade or so, hopefully by then you'll have matured and had sex and not be so desperate for attention. That "same match every night" schtick is played out and when it was used was only used by idiots.. . There was a reason for that far beyond the scope of your meager understanding of wrestling. Watch some of his matches with Sting, when he tried the run along the apron move and Sting caught him with a clothesline, etc. . It told a story and highlighted his opponent. Then watch the match with Steamboat. Then the match with Arn. THEN watch how he stayed in the ring for over an hour during the royal rumble at 46 years old..a feat I'd wager you couldnt do now..so, no, kid, repeating what haters before you have said doth not you an informed fan make. Try having an original thought.
Great point!
@@seacbareid1985 Hopefully you come back and revisit this post in a couple years and enjoy the absolute cringe induced chills your opening sentence provided.
@@seacbareid1985 I see nothing but a fair comment calling out Flair’s hypocrisy. If they were actually seeking attention their opinion wouldn’t fall in line with the majority. If anybody needs maturing it’s your old fanboy ass getting triggered over your childhood hero and i doubt you’re getting laid (like it matters) so quit it.
@@MTG-444 When I want your opinion I'll ask the Ashanti. Since youre unintelligent and immature, and use words like triggered I have to presume youre a millennial, so you'll need to look that reference up. Good luck.
Savage did the impossible made DDP into a superstar. That makes Savage one of the best.
I have loved wrestling since 1993. And if there's one singular thing that watching the WWE Network has proven to me. It would be that Randy Savage has to be in the conversation as the greatest wrestler that's ever lived! For me he's on Mt. Rushmore! Honesty he was fucking awesome!
Macho V Steamboat literally changed the direction of the business in a significant way. It expanded what the audience could expect from wrestling as far as physicality, beyond the typical suplex or body slam.
Flair and Steamboat didn't have to plan anything out. They wrestled each other over the years more than any other two wrestlers ever did. Great chemistry those two. They can just go in there and "improvise" as Cornette said and go 30 or even 60 minutes and put on a great show. Steamboat is my favorite of all time. His original WWF ring entrance music would have me psyched for the match before he would even enter the ring. That tune fit him perfectly. Sirius by The Alan Parsons Project in case people don't remember. They overdub it now with something else. You Tube still has some of the original recordings of him coming out to that.
I love Savage and he was able to pull off the 'write the match in advance' but Savage could also work impromptu. I still think wrestling works best calling it in the ring based on the finish and actually 'working' the crowd and changing things up based on how the crowd reacts. That's the real art, imo and sadly, most of the modern wrestlers couldn't work a match that way because they have to plan out all their flips and flops.
Savage is the greatest of all time.
Wrestling. 10
Character/look. 11
Mic work. 11
Flair is my 2nd favorite right behind savage... but I can say... if you've seen one flair match you've seen them all... macho man was too damn good in the ring to pick it apart. Savage IS the cream of the crop!
@@jamesb1988 oooooh yeaaaaa! I can dig that ☝️
Ric Flair could get into the ring and do the same exact match with anyone. That's why Bret Hart called him a routine guy; same match, every match.
This latest art work is incredible.
I gotta say, the artwork for the videos is very impressive! Very eye catching and intriguing, makes me want to watch! Kudos! Much Love, Sabo
I never got the Rick Flair thing! Macho Man was so much better in every department
IMO a man who can make a elbow drop look devastating knows how to work.
Savage’s elbow drops are a thing of beauty. I’m also a big fan of his short, quick jabs: the Macho Punches.
I’ve always thought Randy was better than flair. Flair was overrated his mic skills were untouchable but in ring …other than walking into a faceplant .. he had chops and the figure four
I find Flair's promo's a little overrated. He just screamed until his face turned purple, plus he wasn't easy to understand, he sounds like he's got a golf ball stuck in his throat.
There’s suggestions in our school district (we’re a suburb of Columbus) to name the new middle school after the Macho Man since he was born in the area. Many families submitted the suggestion lol
I think that's where they tried years ago to have a statue of him put up and it got a lot of signatures online supporting it but I don't think the powers that be agreed.
See Jim, this why people who are wrestling fans need you. YOU KNOW YOUR SHIT! And instead of reacting to the obviously emotionally charged question, you eloquently took the time to explain the reality, without throwing anyone under the bus. Thank You, and as long as you are able to speak, many of us will look forward to listening.
Flair did the same face plant, chop filled, upside down over the turnbuckle and throw off the top turnbuckle match every night.
I think if you're having a 14min 35secs match on the biggest stage in wrestling, it would make sense planning the match ahead of time to get the best outcome. In that era, Ric Flair would usually work 60 minute matches, and 60 minute matches are more forgiving for the calling it ring method - 60 minutes is lot of time to allow a match to breath. I'm pretty sure the majority of matches on the Wrestlemania III card was called in the ring, and at the end of the night only two matches stood out, Hulk vs Andre and Savage vs Steamboat. Svage is a big picture guy, whilst wrestlers in that era saw Wrestlemania III as another show. Savage knew this match could help his career and he took a proactive approach. And also Flair compared his matches with Steamboat to Savage's matches with Steamboats - Flair worked with Steamboat countless times during the 70s and 80s, and in Flair's words - Flair and Steamboat would go into spots they knew instinctively - so Flair and Steamboat had a shorthand. And another thing, wrestlers in the industry cannot agree on what defines a worker, if you ask some wrestlers who's the greatest worker, they would say Shawn Michaels or Ric Flair, others would say Hogan or Dusty, there are people that work in the ring or people that can work the fans into the building. Overall, it doesn't matter how they get the match done, but the results of the match, the business it did and what kind of reaction it got.
Spot on! I couldn't have said it any better. 🍀✌