Decoupling definitely helped my Elac 10" Varro Reference series subwoofer. Whenever I was in the basement underneath my sub's location, I could hear my hardwood floors rattling like there was no tomorrow. I decoupled using 4 each 2"x2"x7/8" thick pieces of Diversitech MP-2E Anti-vibration pads. When I'm under my sub's location now, all I hear is music playing...absolutely zero rattling of my hardwood floors. This stuff is "crazy good" at isolating vibrations. Cost for the 4 pieces was about $4 on Amazon. My bass is more controllable now, and more focused with less of a loss of energy wasted on shaking the house apart, lol. (I'm not a fan of rattling the rafters of my house with bass).
Paul is bang on with his advice. Don’t decouple your subs. My subs have downfiring drivers, designed to interact with the floor for a more even bass distribution. Part of the sub experience is not only what you hear, but also what you feel, it adds to the realism. Either do as Paul suggests and decouple your preamp, or, invest in some isolation pods and decouple your rack. Most of all, enjoy the music.
MIke (in Des Moines, Iowa): I recommend you try a Townshend Seismic Vibration Isolation Platform for each of your components. The platforms are designed for the weight of whatever it is that you will be placing on the platform. Also, the platforms come in different sizes, to accommodate the various widths and depths of different stereo components (the feet of the equipment is what matters for your measurements) So you should have the weight of each of your components known, as well as the measurements of the footings of your equipment, if you decided to place an order. If you want to try with only one platform, then I suggest you do so for your pre-amp, because your letter stated that it was tubed based (and it is bad to vibrate tubes). Their platforms work, and will probably exceed most people's expectations. If you have a fairly good system, you will immediately notice a more focused presentation.
I like the sound of decoupled bass. I like the idea of having lots of bass then taming it down or cleaning it up by setting the speakers and subs on granite slabs with floor spikes and sorbothane pads in between the speaker and granite 🔈👍🏻 not quite as much punch but it eliminates some boominess and rattling etc.
I have followed Paul for many years and implemented many of his suggestions into my system. However, in this case I must respectfully disagree agree. When I added a B&W ASW650 sub, I found the bass flabby and ill defined. I added Isoacoustics Iso Pucks. All of a sudden bass guitars sounded like strings being plucked, the mid range voicing opened up and the soundstage resolved into a beautiful large space.
In my 2.2 setup I moved the subs up by putting them on cheap IKEA-style "sitting cubes" made of foam wrapped in fake leather. Now the floor vibrations are gone (intended) and indeed the bass response in my room is more even. Was is missing of course is the rumble, but I can happily live without it. I am sure my neighbours are not missing it, either.
A side note that must always be remembered, laws of physics. If they can hear it downstairs, that means that energy is removed from the listening space. Most boundaries (walls, floors,...) disappear below 80-100Hz.
I respectfully completely disagree. I do have a stack of 4 Audio Physic subwoofers, I set them on spikes onto a heavy stoneplate, the stone is then coupled to the floor with Valhalla rubberlike pads. This setup gives clearly better, tighter more forceful bass in my room, compared to simply just leaving the subs straight onto a floor. This is also the setup that is advocated by Paolo Tezzon, chief engineer of Sonus Faber. Additionally, I believe this setup gives close to zero mechanical vibration transfer through the floor from the subwoofer.
I'm doing research on audio, being new to higher end audio setups. I'm getting ready here before long to start investing in a starter home theater setup, in my apartment. Overall since I've been here, at the apartment complex, I don't notice too much noise from neighbors. Though I'm concerned with mainly with how much a subwoofer will transfer through walls and floors. My bedroom that I'm doing the setup in is fully carpeted. 10' x 12' x 8'. While I was looking at a full on Klipsch 5.1.2 reference premier system.. A friend who works in audio suggested, since I'm doing a physical setup and not a virtualized one. That I just go with a 5.1 system using Klipsch bookshelf speakers, a center, and sub. Would save me about $800-$1000 dollars, and give me room to upgrade down the road once I move somewhere with more space. Since the bookshelf speakers can just be re-arranged down the road if I had towers, I can just use them as sides or rears. While cost isn't an issue for me. I'm mainly concerned with bass bleeding through walls and floors. That and finding the balance of how much audio do I realistically need for my space. I also happen to live around/near the Des Moines, Iowa area lol. I'm familiar with working with PC's and software, as a hobby, but lack experience in the audio department outside of what research I've been able to do. I've much more experience hauling 40+ thousand pounds of glass down the interstate lol.
The approach I took with my 300 pound Legacy Audio Valor speakers (which have built-in down firing and forward fire subs - down to 12Hz) is to place them Townshend Isolation Podiums. I also put my tube integrated amp (acts as power amp) on a Townshend isolation platform. My floor is a suspended wood floor covered by carpet. The problem prior to this addition was that the vibrations caused the floor to act like a speaker, resulting in significant acoustic energy in the room. Once on the isolation podiums, this room energy from the floor was significantly reduced. However, you can feel the sound energy that comes from the speakers, where my sofa does shake and vibrate (and you still feel immersed in the sound). The Isolation Podium isolate above 3Hz. The concept for these platforms was to reduce the vibration coming from the floor to the speaker, where vibrations from car traffic, earthquakes, speakers, etc, would not be transferred to the speaker drivers.
i agree 100%.. but sometimes you cant leave it uncoupled, that killed a terrase door window at my home... so i got soundpath feet, for my pb-1000pro. and the bas is actually sounding better.. i then use a other sub, as a nearfield sub. to get that close tactile feeling.. and im loving it so much
Nice response, Paul. However, I'd like to add a few tidbits if I may. The mere act of couplling a subwoofer really has little/nothing to do directly with visceral impact as one might think. Rather, using superior strategies to couple a subwoofer to the floor has everything to do with the attempt to allow unwanted vibrations to exit/drain from the subwoofer before they can induce their unwanted catastrophic sonic harm on the sub's built-in amp, x-over, power supply, etc. That is the real reason why a subwoofer (or speaker) tightly coupled to the floor will sound more visceral because the bass is actually more natural and hence more musical. In contrast, decoupling a subwoofer from the floor guarantees those unwanted vibrations / resonant energy remain trapped within the sub's cabinet and release all of their unwanted energy somewhere within e.g. the sub's amp internals, x-over, power supply, etc. When implementing superior (as opposed to inferior) executions of the coupling method, the product in this case the subwoofer will sound even more visceral and flat out more musical because the normally trapped vibrations are now able to flow away from the cabinet. One thing to remember is, implementations / executions of vibration mgmt do not change based on weight or component type. IOW, if such a strategy genuinely works for the subwoofer, then the exact same strategy / method will also work for speakers and components alike. Guaranteed. To employ different methods for different components implies laws of nature i.e. energy's behavior changes based on the type of component we're addressing. They do not. And since we're dealing with 3 primary sources of vibrations, though we may successfully isolate our components from one source of vibrations guarantees that at least one other source of vibrations will remain trapped and its game over. When one genuinely hears improvements from a supposedly isolating product, it's actually only because the product is less isolating that the one it replaced. Not because the component is actually more isolated.
I got better quality base when I used dampening feet on my 16" sub which is set on hardwood floor, as well as more even bass throughout the room. I don't see why one would worry about the bass getting lower by decoupling since if it does you can just turn the subwoofer up to compensate. I don't think having floor vibration from the cabinet is how to produce proper bass.
I have a similar set up with Maggies and one subwoofer but it's placed across the front wall of my listening room 10 feet from my equipment rack. Even so, it sits on a Symposium anti-vibration platform just in case.
My home theater/music listening room sits over a large crawl space. In fact the crawl space is under our entire home except for the garage. Deep bass shakes the couch but is clean and musical (thanks Audyssey XT-32).
I read some comments and added my own view. I missed the point that the wooden floor is carpeted. This changed my view. If you have a wooden floor, uncarpeted, a sub can raise havoc in the room...the spikes can also damage the wooden floor. The fact that this guy's sub is so close to his electronics, I would suggest sorbothane feet under all his components...if they stand on a wooden rack, think of marble or granite shelves. I built my own rack with 50x50mm square tubing and 5 cheap marble shelves. Then I screwed oak wood strips with felt in between to damp the "ring" of the steel tubing. My system sound like a live performance and the room is 50 square meters with a concrete floor covered by full shaggy carpet. If he has a turntable, a wall shelf to isolate the vibrations and acoustic feedback..
Hard driving bass with the room shaking is not a good idea in an apartment which would be impossible for me as my neighbors would shoot me or go to war or start an eviction. Super deep bass is not for everyone! Vibrating floors are great in PSAudio industrial space or in Paul's home if his wife Terry would allow earth shattering bass (I don't think so).
Vibrations don't just transfer to equipment through mechanical connections between the floor and the equipment rack. The acoustic pressure waves themselves cause vibration of the tubes and other electronics. There is nothing you can do about that except by locating the electronics and the speakers in separate rooms, as some audiophiles do. An acoustically isolated equipment closet is an example of this.
Why don't the FR-30's come with a built-in sub-woofer? It seems if one is needed, even by your standards, then one should be included, per channel of course, for a slightly higher price to be sure.
because, I guess, the ideal position of a subwoofer is often not the same spot as the main speakers, due to the long wave lengths. One of the advantages of a sub is, you can move it around so that on the listening position the bass sounds correct (rather than doubled or nulled due to standing wave phenomena)
I think the frequency cutoff Paul mentions is the -6db point. I prefer to use the -3db point as I think that’s what most speaker manufacturers quote. To answer your question, the point for best imaging and best bass may not be coincident in your room, so you place your speakers where imaging is best, and the subs where the bass is best.
Decouple or not to Decouple, that is the question. For me the answer is no, I do not decouple my subs. I know there are people who decouple in an attempt to try and keep the sound transmitting to their next door neighbor, in that case decoupling will have a minor effect IMO. I'm in agreement with Paul, decouple your equipment not speakers. If you're that concerned maybe you can build a isolation box with 2 foot thick insulated walls, Box on pads, and Equipment on pads. That should do it!! 😁🖖
I think Paul is missing a point here. The guy is worried about bad vibrations carried over by the wooden floor that can effect the electronics, by semiconductors generating a small current. I would suggest putting the sub on a thick concrete, marble or granite block...but still on the floor. I have a REL Strata in front and a Q150E in the rear. The room(50 square meters) has a concrete floor with thick shaggy wall to wall carpet and the roof/ceiling is granite chip concrete...so I do not have that problem. I know exactly what happen if you put a Rega tt on a wooden rack...the arm jumps.
Many people think they can take any subwoofer and make them sound good. it's not that easy! Many bass speaker boxes for regular cinema systems many have at home only have a built-in amplifier and 12dB bass filter. There is nothing that adjusts the sound as flat as possible. You achieve too much in some frequencies which means that it does not provide the requested sound quality together with 2 - 3 way speakers! Remember that a normal speaker has a crossover which in some ways works like a passive EQ. A normal subwoofer does not have this! Large speaker coils that are needed to divide at low frequencies cause phase shift and other negative things. Therefore, an active crossover filter is almost always used, but unfortunately not DSP. with EQ.
@@marcbegine The Gaia series is for speakers. Actually you would want something like IsoAcoustics OREA Bordeaux individual pucks for electronic components or you could purchase a complete isolation platform like the IsoAcoustics zaZen II.
Those vibrations can be awesome but what is the ideal effect? Also sound under 20Hz is an interesting subject. Some subwoofers can go below 20Hz and while you don’t hear it as tones, you can feel it.
My speakers go down to 12Hz. While watching the Hitch Hikers guide to the Galaxy, I felt the vibrations of the spaceship from my sofa (which I happen to be lying down on). but could not hear the sound. This is similar to the vibrations you feel when you are on a ship. Interesting experience, and this was with the speakers on Townshend Isolation Platforms.
well to be teknical here, for example 20hz is not a hard limit so 16 hz is something you can hear slightly, and it also becomes a pressure in your ears. wich my floor was able to flex a bit, since i do not get much vibrations from my subwoofers from that. the body punch i do get tho.
@@matthewbarrow3727 I have similar experience in my home theatre setup and servo subs. Once I thought there was an earthquake as my house is near a fault line.
Yes, soft feets for your sub is the best there is. The bass will become that much better with soft feets. Hell, even your mainspeakers should stand on soft feets.
Noooo soft feet for speakers, especially floorstanders, they should be coupled to the floor tightly, in fact a good tip for wooden floors is to screw in 4 crosshead screws into the floor and spike your speakers ontop of each screw for an amazingly tight fit, excellent rigidity, more bass and soundstage
In my last apartment, I was on the second floor and decouple the subs out of respect for neighbors. In my current place, I am on the first floor and do not decouple.
I managed to sort both of my subs out for less than £10 🥳 2 x masonry tiles £2 2 x 2" thick density foam £4 can of black spray £3.50 aftet spraying, place the masonry tiles on top of the high density foam and then have the subwoofer(s) sitting on top of your new industrial style isolation pad! If interested one can see them in action within this short 3 minute video... ua-cam.com/video/O_fp8aZiiSM/v-deo.html
All those fancy extravagantly expensive vibration devices 😳🙄 Go to Walmart, buy Play Doh. Roll it up in big balls and place them under the four corners of each speaker. Push it down a little, now you have great vibration protection without the fancy fashion designer Gucci style vibration stands.
Common sense and people with clue about acoustics tell you that vibration of the floor is distortion and the subwoofer should be placed 50 cm above the floor - 50 cm membrane absorbers under the subwoofer
"Common sense and people with clue about acoustics tell you that vibration of the floor is distortion and the subwoofer should be placed 50 cm above the floor - 50 cm membrane absorbers under the subwoofer" Harald Reindl starts off his comment by insulting people for not having common sense or not having a clue (stating "people with clue" implies that idiots might understand if they have a clue, and others are clueless). It is ironic that he believes that insulting the readers with the first six words of his comment is the path to convincing the readers. It is not ironic that clueless people call other clueless. They do not see the irony.
@@NoEgg4u i don't give a shit about convincing any audiofool - i have done everything which makes my sound perfect and don't care about distortion outside my own room
@@Harald_Reindl "i don't give a shit about convincing any audiofool - i have done everything which makes my sound perfect and don't care about distortion outside my own room" In your initial comment you wrote "Common sense and people with clue" in the first six words of that comment. In your next comment you changed topics, thinking that doing so would not be noticed, which is further evidence of your level of cluelessness. Your opening comment was you insulting the readers of your comment. After I pointed it out to you, you should have replied with "I chose my words poorly", or something similar. But rather than acknowledging your unsolicited, insulting opening remark, you chose to throw unrelated comments into the mix, in an attempt to avoid apologizing and as an attempt to have reader's attention focus on your new comment. That conveys that you are standing by your initial, unsolicited insulting comment. If you had a clue, you would see your mistakes. If you had a clue, you would see the irony in your initial, unsolicited insulting comment.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Decoupling definitely helped my Elac 10" Varro Reference series subwoofer. Whenever I was in the basement underneath my sub's location, I could hear my hardwood floors rattling like there was no tomorrow. I decoupled using 4 each 2"x2"x7/8" thick pieces of Diversitech MP-2E Anti-vibration pads. When I'm under my sub's location now, all I hear is music playing...absolutely zero rattling of my hardwood floors. This stuff is "crazy good" at isolating vibrations. Cost for the 4 pieces was about $4 on Amazon. My bass is more controllable now, and more focused with less of a loss of energy wasted on shaking the house apart, lol. (I'm not a fan of rattling the rafters of my house with bass).
Paul is bang on with his advice. Don’t decouple your subs. My subs have downfiring drivers, designed to interact with the floor for a more even bass distribution. Part of the sub experience is not only what you hear, but also what you feel, it adds to the realism. Either do as Paul suggests and decouple your preamp, or, invest in some isolation pods and decouple your rack.
Most of all, enjoy the music.
I like to think I've decoupled my rack...
ua-cam.com/video/e-B3kjyLvwA/v-deo.html
MIke (in Des Moines, Iowa):
I recommend you try a Townshend Seismic Vibration Isolation Platform for each of your components.
The platforms are designed for the weight of whatever it is that you will be placing on the platform. Also, the platforms come in different sizes, to accommodate the various widths and depths of different stereo components (the feet of the equipment is what matters for your measurements) So you should have the weight of each of your components known, as well as the measurements of the footings of your equipment, if you decided to place an order.
If you want to try with only one platform, then I suggest you do so for your pre-amp, because your letter stated that it was tubed based (and it is bad to vibrate tubes).
Their platforms work, and will probably exceed most people's expectations.
If you have a fairly good system, you will immediately notice a more focused presentation.
I like the sound of decoupled bass. I like the idea of having lots of bass then taming it down or cleaning it up by setting the speakers and subs on granite slabs with floor spikes and sorbothane pads in between the speaker and granite 🔈👍🏻 not quite as much punch but it eliminates some boominess and rattling etc.
I have followed Paul for many years and implemented many of his suggestions into my system. However, in this case I must respectfully disagree agree. When I added a B&W ASW650 sub, I found the bass flabby and ill defined. I added Isoacoustics Iso Pucks. All of a sudden bass guitars sounded like strings being plucked, the mid range voicing opened up and the soundstage resolved into a beautiful large space.
Good sensible and pragmatic answer Paul, thx
In my 2.2 setup I moved the subs up by putting them on cheap IKEA-style "sitting cubes" made of foam wrapped in fake leather.
Now the floor vibrations are gone (intended) and indeed the bass response in my room is more even.
Was is missing of course is the rumble, but I can happily live without it. I am sure my neighbours are not missing it, either.
Paul, you're really cranking out content! ...love it!
I am on a concrete floor after many years on wood, I added a smaller sub in the near field right behind me to regain that feel, it works well
A side note that must always be remembered, laws of physics. If they can hear it downstairs, that means that energy is removed from the listening space. Most boundaries (walls, floors,...) disappear below 80-100Hz.
I respectfully completely disagree. I do have a stack of 4 Audio Physic subwoofers, I set them on spikes onto a heavy stoneplate, the stone is then coupled to the floor with Valhalla rubberlike pads. This setup gives clearly better, tighter more forceful bass in my room, compared to simply just leaving the subs straight onto a floor. This is also the setup that is advocated by Paolo Tezzon, chief engineer of Sonus Faber.
Additionally, I believe this setup gives close to zero mechanical vibration transfer through the floor from the subwoofer.
I'm doing research on audio, being new to higher end audio setups. I'm getting ready here before long to start investing in a starter home theater setup, in my apartment. Overall since I've been here, at the apartment complex, I don't notice too much noise from neighbors. Though I'm concerned with mainly with how much a subwoofer will transfer through walls and floors.
My bedroom that I'm doing the setup in is fully carpeted. 10' x 12' x 8'. While I was looking at a full on Klipsch 5.1.2 reference premier system.. A friend who works in audio suggested, since I'm doing a physical setup and not a virtualized one. That I just go with a 5.1 system using Klipsch bookshelf speakers, a center, and sub. Would save me about $800-$1000 dollars, and give me room to upgrade down the road once I move somewhere with more space. Since the bookshelf speakers can just be re-arranged down the road if I had towers, I can just use them as sides or rears.
While cost isn't an issue for me. I'm mainly concerned with bass bleeding through walls and floors. That and finding the balance of how much audio do I realistically need for my space.
I also happen to live around/near the Des Moines, Iowa area lol. I'm familiar with working with PC's and software, as a hobby, but lack experience in the audio department outside of what research I've been able to do. I've much more experience hauling 40+ thousand pounds of glass down the interstate lol.
Great video. As a bass player, my 5 string bass guitar can play a fundamental as low as 32hz. There is nothing like feeling that note.
I did what you say. My receiver would shake, but I Isolated it to maintain sub effects that I adore so much.
The approach I took with my 300 pound Legacy Audio Valor speakers (which have built-in down firing and forward fire subs - down to 12Hz) is to place them Townshend Isolation Podiums. I also put my tube integrated amp (acts as power amp) on a Townshend isolation platform. My floor is a suspended wood floor covered by carpet. The problem prior to this addition was that the vibrations caused the floor to act like a speaker, resulting in significant acoustic energy in the room. Once on the isolation podiums, this room energy from the floor was significantly reduced. However, you can feel the sound energy that comes from the speakers, where my sofa does shake and vibrate (and you still feel immersed in the sound). The Isolation Podium isolate above 3Hz. The concept for these platforms was to reduce the vibration coming from the floor to the speaker, where vibrations from car traffic, earthquakes, speakers, etc, would not be transferred to the speaker drivers.
I always decouple my subs. Sounds much tighter and I don't need, or want, to rattle the windows.
i agree 100%.. but sometimes you cant leave it uncoupled, that killed a terrase door window at my home... so i got soundpath feet, for my pb-1000pro. and the bas is actually sounding better.. i then use a other sub, as a nearfield sub. to get that close tactile feeling.. and im loving it so much
Nice response, Paul. However, I'd like to add a few tidbits if I may. The mere act of couplling a subwoofer really has little/nothing to do directly with visceral impact as one might think. Rather, using superior strategies to couple a subwoofer to the floor has everything to do with the attempt to allow unwanted vibrations to exit/drain from the subwoofer before they can induce their unwanted catastrophic sonic harm on the sub's built-in amp, x-over, power supply, etc. That is the real reason why a subwoofer (or speaker) tightly coupled to the floor will sound more visceral because the bass is actually more natural and hence more musical. In contrast, decoupling a subwoofer from the floor guarantees those unwanted vibrations / resonant energy remain trapped within the sub's cabinet and release all of their unwanted energy somewhere within e.g. the sub's amp internals, x-over, power supply, etc. When implementing superior (as opposed to inferior) executions of the coupling method, the product in this case the subwoofer will sound even more visceral and flat out more musical because the normally trapped vibrations are now able to flow away from the cabinet.
One thing to remember is, implementations / executions of vibration mgmt do not change based on weight or component type. IOW, if such a strategy genuinely works for the subwoofer, then the exact same strategy / method will also work for speakers and components alike. Guaranteed. To employ different methods for different components implies laws of nature i.e. energy's behavior changes based on the type of component we're addressing. They do not. And since we're dealing with 3 primary sources of vibrations, though we may successfully isolate our components from one source of vibrations guarantees that at least one other source of vibrations will remain trapped and its game over. When one genuinely hears improvements from a supposedly isolating product, it's actually only because the product is less isolating that the one it replaced. Not because the component is actually more isolated.
Nonsense
I ask this question .... how well decoupled is that turntable? They are FAR more prone to acoustic feedback than the triode vacuum tubes in a pre amp
The comment about what the wife said nearly made me spit out my coffee. Hilarious!
I got better quality base when I used dampening feet on my 16" sub which is set on hardwood floor, as well as more even bass throughout the room. I don't see why one would worry about the bass getting lower by decoupling since if it does you can just turn the subwoofer up to compensate. I don't think having floor vibration from the cabinet is how to produce proper bass.
I settle for $1 Blu-Tack
I hang my subwoofer from the ceiling on bungee cords.
Me too
Me three. It swings if we play Master and Commander.
Mine are hovering ontop of a pair of drones so I can have them anywhere in the roomspace
@@geddylee501 Brilliant! 😅
Bungee cords are a great idea.
Hang all the speakers from Bungee cords. The soundstage would be futuristic like the JETSON’s. 😎👍🤗
"That's what my wife said" ~ Hilarious!😂but you may have sold me on re-coupling my sub. There is a need for that visceral feel.
I have a similar set up with Maggies and one subwoofer but it's placed across the front wall of my listening room 10 feet from my equipment rack. Even so, it sits on a Symposium anti-vibration platform just in case.
My home theater/music listening room sits over a large crawl space. In fact the crawl space is under our entire home except for the garage. Deep bass shakes the couch but is clean and musical (thanks Audyssey XT-32).
I read some comments and added my own view. I missed the point that the wooden floor is carpeted. This changed my view. If you have a wooden floor, uncarpeted, a sub can raise havoc in the room...the spikes can also damage the wooden floor. The fact that this guy's sub is so close to his electronics, I would suggest sorbothane feet under all his components...if they stand on a wooden rack, think of marble or granite shelves. I built my own rack with 50x50mm square tubing and 5 cheap marble shelves. Then I screwed oak wood strips with felt in between to damp the "ring" of the steel tubing. My system sound like a live performance and the room is 50 square meters with a concrete floor covered by full shaggy carpet. If he has a turntable, a wall shelf to isolate the vibrations and acoustic feedback..
Thanks for the useful information.
Paul, which subwoofer are you using in that room?
lmao, two inches feels like eight 🤣, on the isolation platform. Thanks Paul
Hard driving bass with the room shaking is not a good idea in an apartment which would be impossible for me as my neighbors would shoot me or go to war or start an eviction. Super deep bass is not for everyone! Vibrating floors are great in PSAudio industrial space or in Paul's home if his wife Terry would allow earth shattering bass (I don't think so).
What sub are you using Paul?
Vibrations don't just transfer to equipment through mechanical connections between the floor and the equipment rack. The acoustic pressure waves themselves cause vibration of the tubes and other electronics. There is nothing you can do about that except by locating the electronics and the speakers in separate rooms, as some audiophiles do. An acoustically isolated equipment closet is an example of this.
Why don't the FR-30's come with a built-in sub-woofer? It seems if one is needed, even by your standards, then one should be included, per channel of course, for a slightly higher price to be sure.
because, I guess, the ideal position of a subwoofer is often not the same spot as the main speakers, due to the long wave lengths.
One of the advantages of a sub is, you can move it around so that on the listening position the bass sounds correct (rather than doubled or nulled due to standing wave phenomena)
Why is uperio right component open? By decoupling of sub, does it to put it on spikes?
I'm guessing audiophiles like Paul don't listen to a lot of speed metal.
I was considering hanging my KC62 from the ceiling by fishing line.
Another tip for the questioner: put some tube dampers on your preamp’s tubes. They will help reduce the tubes’ microphonics from air borne vibrations.
I isolate my tube preamp with Maple shade products.. yes, Paul, you got it right….
Elevate your sub!!
Quality over quantity
Get dual opposed subwoofers from Arendal or Rythmik. Non issue
If the FR 30 go so low in frequency. Why have a subwoofer especially since the subwoofer doesn’t even go as low in frequency as the FR 30?
I think the frequency cutoff Paul mentions is the -6db point. I prefer to use the -3db point as I think that’s what most speaker manufacturers quote. To answer your question, the point for best imaging and best bass may not be coincident in your room, so you place your speakers where imaging is best, and the subs where the bass is best.
Decouple or not to Decouple, that is the question. For me the answer is no, I do not decouple my subs. I know there are people who decouple in an attempt to try and keep the sound transmitting to their next door neighbor, in that case decoupling will have a minor effect IMO. I'm in agreement with Paul, decouple your equipment not speakers. If you're that concerned maybe you can build a isolation box with 2 foot thick insulated walls, Box on pads, and Equipment on pads. That should do it!! 😁🖖
Vibration of floor and interior is distortion
I think Paul is missing a point here. The guy is worried about bad vibrations carried over by the wooden floor that can effect the electronics, by semiconductors generating a small current. I would suggest putting the sub on a thick concrete, marble or granite block...but still on the floor. I have a REL Strata in front and a Q150E in the rear. The room(50 square meters) has a concrete floor with thick shaggy wall to wall carpet and the roof/ceiling is granite chip concrete...so I do not have that problem. I know exactly what happen if you put a Rega tt on a wooden rack...the arm jumps.
Many people think they can take any subwoofer and make them sound good. it's not that easy!
Many bass speaker boxes for regular cinema systems many have at home only have a built-in amplifier and 12dB bass filter. There is nothing that adjusts the sound as flat as possible.
You achieve too much in some frequencies which means that it does not provide the requested sound quality together with 2 - 3 way speakers!
Remember that a normal speaker has a crossover which in some ways works like a passive EQ. A normal subwoofer does not have this!
Large speaker coils that are needed to divide at low frequencies cause phase shift and other negative things.
Therefore, an active crossover filter is almost always used,
but unfortunately not DSP. with EQ.
ISI Acoustics Gaia I or II😊
ISO of course
@@marcbegine The Gaia series is for speakers. Actually you would want something like IsoAcoustics OREA Bordeaux individual pucks for electronic components or you could purchase a complete isolation platform like the IsoAcoustics zaZen II.
ISO Acoustics OREA series!
Those vibrations can be awesome but what is the ideal effect? Also sound under 20Hz is an interesting subject. Some subwoofers can go below 20Hz and while you don’t hear it as tones, you can feel it.
My speakers go down to 12Hz. While watching the Hitch Hikers guide to the Galaxy, I felt the vibrations of the spaceship from my sofa (which I happen to be lying down on). but could not hear the sound. This is similar to the vibrations you feel when you are on a ship. Interesting experience, and this was with the speakers on Townshend Isolation Platforms.
well to be teknical here, for example 20hz is not a hard limit so 16 hz is something you can hear slightly, and it also becomes a pressure in your ears.
wich my floor was able to flex a bit, since i do not get much vibrations from my subwoofers from that. the body punch i do get tho.
@@matthewbarrow3727 I have similar experience in my home theatre setup and servo subs. Once I thought there was an earthquake as my house is near a fault line.
Yes, soft feets for your sub is the best there is.
The bass will become that much better with soft feets.
Hell, even your mainspeakers should stand on soft feets.
Noooo soft feet for speakers, especially floorstanders, they should be coupled to the floor tightly, in fact a good tip for wooden floors is to screw in 4 crosshead screws into the floor and spike your speakers ontop of each screw for an amazingly tight fit, excellent rigidity, more bass and soundstage
@@geddylee501 Never ever unless you have a floor hard as a diamond or more......like Mithril.
To have cones against a wooden floor is very bad.
Is it feets or foots? Want to be sure to get the right things.
36karpatoruski its feet. That is more than one. A foot is one.
@@36karpatoruski depends, its metres if you're going metric
According to *your website* the FR30 does down to 26Hz (-6cB) while the FR20 goes down to 23Hz (-6dB)?????
It makes no sense!
Decouple if you get rattling from other objects otherwise dont
my sub is is making a pulsing noise, Does anyone who knows what it can be?.
With music or without? If it self generates it it is a cap or transformer.
@@morbidmanmusic when its on
In my last apartment, I was on the second floor and decouple the subs out of respect for neighbors. In my current place, I am on the first floor and do not decouple.
4:14😂😂😂
I managed to sort both of my subs out for less than £10 🥳
2 x masonry tiles £2
2 x 2" thick density foam £4
can of black spray £3.50
aftet spraying, place the masonry tiles on top of the high density foam and then have the subwoofer(s) sitting on top of your new industrial style isolation pad!
If interested one can see them in action within this short 3 minute video...
ua-cam.com/video/O_fp8aZiiSM/v-deo.html
The ship's crew appear to be mutinying on this topic....
That's what she said
All those fancy extravagantly expensive vibration devices 😳🙄
Go to Walmart, buy Play Doh. Roll it up in big balls and place them under the four corners of each speaker. Push it down a little, now you have great vibration protection without the fancy fashion designer Gucci style vibration stands.
Do some measurements..you will see that is not true.
Thats what she said lol
My neighbors think otherwise
Hah ha ha ha… 😅
I don't like to feel music so much. Once in a while it's OK, but not often.
Common sense and people with clue about acoustics tell you that vibration of the floor is distortion and the subwoofer should be placed 50 cm above the floor - 50 cm membrane absorbers under the subwoofer
"Common sense and people with clue about acoustics tell you that vibration of the floor is distortion and the subwoofer should be placed 50 cm above the floor - 50 cm membrane absorbers under the subwoofer"
Harald Reindl starts off his comment by insulting people for not having common sense or not having a clue (stating "people with clue" implies that idiots might understand if they have a clue, and others are clueless).
It is ironic that he believes that insulting the readers with the first six words of his comment is the path to convincing the readers.
It is not ironic that clueless people call other clueless. They do not see the irony.
@@NoEgg4u i don't give a shit about convincing any audiofool - i have done everything which makes my sound perfect and don't care about distortion outside my own room
@@Harald_Reindl "i don't give a shit about convincing any audiofool - i have done everything which makes my sound perfect and don't care about distortion outside my own room"
In your initial comment you wrote "Common sense and people with clue" in the first six words of that comment.
In your next comment you changed topics, thinking that doing so would not be noticed, which is further evidence of your level of cluelessness.
Your opening comment was you insulting the readers of your comment. After I pointed it out to you, you should have replied with "I chose my words poorly", or something similar. But rather than acknowledging your unsolicited, insulting opening remark, you chose to throw unrelated comments into the mix, in an attempt to avoid apologizing and as an attempt to have reader's attention focus on your new comment. That conveys that you are standing by your initial, unsolicited insulting comment.
If you had a clue, you would see your mistakes.
If you had a clue, you would see the irony in your initial, unsolicited insulting comment.
@@NoEgg4u boy kiss me where no sun shines
@@Harald_Reindl "boy kiss me where no sun shines"
Between your ears?