We have some Gaggiuino documentation for Silvia already, though it’s much less than for GC/P. That said, we are still happy to help with Silvia installs in help threads!
The Gaggiuno discord has a lot of resources and I personally found it relatively straightforward when I did a build 1yr ago. The community there is great, and a number of individuals there are true experts of these machines. I had a bunch of hiccups or learnings while doing a full rebuild of the used machine I acquired, and I got tips not only for Gaggiuno but general Silvia repair.
I have the siliva and it is a beast. When i spoke to the official importer for rancillo machines here in Australia before purchasing he instructed me to work my way up the machine, steam milk first once done release milk steam from Boiler untill only water comes then brew which drops the temperature down to the correct brewing temperature. Furthermore, once i done this perfect espresso every single time. Furthermore, they are a costly machine i paid $870 usd but definitely worth it
At least in the US, at $900 there's no reason for the Silvia to exist. The Profitec Go at around $1K is light years ahead of it, while the Gaggia E24 with a brass boiler is a viable alternative at half the price.
If you do the Gagguinio on the Silvia that would be amazing to see! The whole build process would be best given not many resources are out there for doing the mod on the Silvia
I had the Silvia for years and thought it was built well, but difficult to temperature surf. However, I added a PID, which took less than an hour and it made all the difference. 👍
Hey there, I wanted to put a little correction on the brass-boiler thingy: 2:10 The issue with the 2015-2018 machines were that the solenoid was missing and basically everything got changed, in most cases for a worse part, which made modding very hard. And since modding was a big part of the appeal, nobody wants it. Additionally doing away with the solenoid valve was also a huge deal, since that always came with it. The boiler being stainless steel was a good thing, but it still was a downer overall.
Had my Silvia for over 10 years now and outside of my own personal feeling of upgrade-itis I've had zero reasons to upgrade so here I am. Added the PID for a refresh but it's by no means necessary, just helped keep it's longevity in my kitchen. Love my Silvia.
Gagguino is a fantastic way to utilize a used machine. I finally upgraded from a decade of Aeropress to a Rancilio Silvia a year back and have loved it since. I got a 10yo used machine, immersed myself in the rebuilding community, and stumbled on Gaggiuno. That mod, as well as the entire rebuild and improvements (sound deadening, insulation, burness wand, vinyl wraps, etc.) is easily one of my finest projects and gives me joy every day. The communities for these very versatile and simple machines are truly stellar to help make giving them a new life (or big boost) possibile ❤
Honestly the biggest problem with the Gaggia that nobody talks about is the steam valve wearing out after only a few months of use and starting to drip. Unlike the Silvia it doesn't use a rubber seal, it's just metal on metal.
@@LanceHedrick Is that fixable? Considering getting a Gaggia and modding it. If it's a simple fix to install a rubber seal, that would make my decision easier.
Metal on metal should be what doesn't wear out, it either fits just right or it doesn't. But that's just what I would expect, and I don't have that machine.
Yes that’s a good point. I have had both and the Gaggia was a bit annoying with a dribbling steam wand. Would always need to put a container under the steam wand. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but something you don’t contend with on the Rancilio.
really excited to hear you're going to do a video on modding the silvia-i have been wanting to try gagguino mod and my preferences have always lead me to believe that i should splurge the extra bit to try it on a silvia, but the lack of official documentation from the gagguino team makes it seem that little bit too intimidating (though i understand they're working hard at providing some in the future) always great to see you enjoying spresso from machines such as these too considering how you routinely play with some of the more advanced machines out there
Gaggiuino does have some (limited) documentation for Silvia in the Discord, and there are several of us who are happy to help with the install in help threads!
Thanks for doing the temperature test! That is so helpful for people who don't have those tools at home or at least we know it will certainly help us better understand how long to purge water before pulling a shot. If anyone wants to see how the Rancilio Silvia works in real life, we document our home barista journey with our Rancilio Silvia! Thanks Lance for this informative video! :)
Mark 1 UK Silvia since 2005 still going strong no problems. Surfings a bit of a pfaff but definitely worth that hassle. Opening the steam wand when flicking the steam on forces some water out as steam pressure builds, creating some more headroom, then closing the valve as the water flow dimishes, this gives a drier steam when then purging as you did just before steaming the milk, you can also time the steaming so the boiler is still on when steaming for even more steampower if you want. Looking forward to the Gaggiuino mod, sounds really interesting, would be good to see what's involved and the espresso results. Keep up all the good work. Very informative and engaging
Great video. I found for steam with the Gaggia that if you start the steam heat just as the brew boiler heat cycles off and purge the water at 10 seconds then begin steaming at 30 seconds the heating element remains on and the steam is dryer. From 175 ml of milk it get only 25 g of water added after steaming. You want to start with a full boiler as the water pump stays off during steaming and keeping the heating element on during steaming gives a dryer steam.
Yes! This exactly. I don't remember where I first learned that trick, but since someone showed me that, I've always had good steam pressure from my Gaggia as long as the heating elements stay on.
US Gaggia Classic Pro E24 (from Whole Latte Love) has 9 bar spring and a latching power switch with no electronics. Been using for a month and really like the quality of espresso and steaming. Nice tips and comparison! Ty Lance.
The spring loaded power spring is a EU requirement. High powered equipment needs a power timeout so it wont stay on for long periods of time without use.
@@EmilBjrn Thanks, that makes sense. My last machine was a Gaggia Baby Twin, and if I weren't an electrical engineer I wouldn't have been able to keep the capacitive touch switches functional for 8 years. With all its electronics, auto shutoff was not a feature. I am loving having no electronics in this new machine! Not even an LED!! Happy Brewing~
Just ordered a Gaggia Classic Pro E24 from whole latte love. Got it for 450$ on sale! Silvia is 800-900$ here currently in the US. Can’t wait to make some espresso! Been watching your videos for a while now for filter coffee. Now I can finally enjoy my own espresso!
I got one for Christmas and it has been pulling amazing shots. Using techniques found online and a decent basket it started pulling cafe beating shots instantly. And I'm just using a hand grinder lol
Silvia could worth that much (even in many EU sites is not cheap), if they renew it with a bigger heating element, a PID/timer, a pressure gauge, bigger/better quality drip tray and same fail safety features, like near empty water and missing tank sensor, internal boiler refill after steaming without wasting water, auto refill boiler during steaming if you do back to back milks. Basically this is what you get with the Lelit Victoria, for not much more.
@@KingLM07 yeah I got the zpresso j ultra. My filter grinder won’t work for espresso. What basket are you using? Trying to decide on what one to get. Don’t really want to spend 200$ on the really fancy ones.
@lukeferrara3110 I got an IMS 18-22g basket bundled with my machine but also ordered a VST 18g basket. It was like 35$ CAD. I can say that a precision basket is a genuine upgrade from the stock gaggia one however unless you have an insane grinder I wouldn't bother with the truly expensive modern baskets.
Thank you, Lance! I love my Gaggia, modded with pressure gauge, pid, dimmer switch, and two rings cut off the opv spring - four years now, still going strong. I have my steam temp set for 140C to 145C, but with the -9 offset, that is really 149C to 154C. I only steam 75ml of milk for a cortado, so I never run out of steam. Right after steaming I run the brew pump to flush the group head with steam until it comes out only water. All good for me, I love it.
Really looking forward for the Silvia Gaggiuino Video. There are not many Silvia Gaggiuino Vids out there yet, only few with the first gen Mini Display. Curious how this will turn out with the silvia.
Two excellent machines and, as you said, both reliable and rapirable. If taken care of both will last you ask long as you need them. Great video Lance.
I got a Silvia a yesr ago. This video really helps. I dont need to instill a PID coz of the info you shared on about how it's temperature behaves. I'm glad the Silvia is capable of doing light to dark roast with a little bit of temp surfing. Thanks
great video as always lance ❤ it would be awesome if you could make a video that documents and guides for the gagguino mod made on the rancilio Silva ! 🎉
Great video, I'm surprised how hot that Silvia gets, you are going to go through a bit of water to purge that all the time but I love how much space it has to mod, thats a dream! I guess the next Silvia vs Gaggis Classic video would be both modded with Gagguino, but there would be probably less differences there and the Silvia would probably come out on top except its price.
Not another review of the same brands every one reviews. But I get it, it’s what the masses wanted. So many more interesting and unique brands and machines. That is one thing I like about Whole Latte Love they review so many machines to give plenty of choices. Either way I still enjoy most of your content and shared knowledge. But a still well explained and informative review.
Got my silvia v1 for 200 bucks. Completely overhauled everything and isolated everything, let me tell you. If you know how to temperature surf it makes some damn good Espresso ❤
You measured 14 bar with the Gaggia?! Now it explains why my GCP E24 sprays everywhere with a bottomless portafilter. I ordered a 9 bar OPV spring which arrived today. It was about time! Great video, thanks for the comparison.
Wouldn't the opv valve value matter only if you are grinding so fine that the pressure would go above the threshold without the valve? For each machine (with their own pumping speed) there is a grind size such that we can reach a pressure lower than the threshold of the valve, right?
that makes sense to me. It is a valve, so only relevant if you let the pressure get too high. I suspect how much you put in basket plus grind size is really way of adjusting pressure. It doesn't have to go to 15 even if your spring can cope with high pressures.
It's basically the best single boiler machine on the market. All it lacks is flow control. It's also, like these other budget semi-autos, just a big rectilinear box.
OMG he did it! He Really did it!!! Lance, if you read my comment on your last video(or two ago?) mentioning wanting a comparison between these two, I hope it gave you some sort of amusement or joy knowing that you were already at it. Looks like I'm getting a used Silvia, doing a PID mod, and getting some nice wooden upgrades. Thank you for making this, and all of the videos that you make.
The sequence from 10:20 - 10:50 is all I needed to see. A gagguino is less expensive than unmodified Silvia and delivers same or better coffee? Say no more. Plus the Gaggia in black is way sexier looking.
it's cool to see these tested without the Gagguino mod, I am not confident in my ability to do the mod atm so I've been dragging my feet a bit, but I have always assumed that if I practice enough I technically do not need the mod
Look forward to the Gaggiaino-ing of that Silvia. Nice comparison of the two. The Silvia’s ability to accept any commercial portafilter is kind of a major winning point. Why Gaggia has gone a bit proprietary on this is irksome. Still, Gaggia does offer a lot for the price.
Great comparison Lance! Would love to see a comparison of the Profitec Go vs the Silva. GCP dominates the $500 price point, but many seem willing to shell out more for the niceties of the Go (PID, OPV, etc), so curious how it compares to the Silva which is a similar price.
@@jeffb8331 Profitec Go or Silvia were the two machines I was looking at hardest, with a big draw for the Profitec being that it actually comes in nice and fun colors(along with nice features and quality). In the end, it's the depth measurement that I can't get past. It's just going to stick out so far on the counter... Silvia with PID mod it is.
Very informative video. Thanks! Espresso already has enough variables. I personally wouldn't buy a machine without PID control already built in (my current machine has it). Your summary makes sense and I understand why people would buy a Gaggia for $500 expecting to modify it. The Silvia just seems overpriced in the US even though it appears to be a great, long lasting machine. I typically don't make milk based drinks. If I were buying a machine for less than $1000 I would probably go for a Lelit Victoria/Anna or Profitec Go or a Breville machine before either of these machines. A Turin Legato V2 would be really tempting even with questions about longevity. That's just me though and its great that there are so many options.
thank you! Waiting for Silvia Gaggiuino detaled video! I tried to find some detailed step-by-step guides for this, but all are too difficult to follow and not straight-forward
Have you gotten your hands on a SMEG Semi pro yet? Do you ever intend to, if not? Would love to hear your thoughts. It's looks great, but SMEG seems to always be form over function.
@@elijahsoczka6996 Thanks. I find it strange that there is a huge lack of reviews for it as it's been available for a while now. Either way, I'm waiting for reviews.
Blimey I was just thinking the other day that we should have a comparison between the RS and the new E24 and here you are LOL I was surprised to hear the higher asking price for the RS in the US which is just crazy and given that Gaggia Direct here in the UK are doing a bundle with an MDF55 (basically a modified Eureka Mignon Specialita) at the moment for only £850 it kinda becomes a no brainer. Always fancied the Rancilio or a Sage/Breville dual boiler but sadly I just don't have the kitchen real estate so the compactness of the Gaggia has always been a winner, even more now with the brass boiler. Thanks for doing the comparisson, it kinda confirms what I suspected which is that these two are very similar especially now with the brass boiler in the latest E24 Gaggia.
For medium or darker roasts sounds like the gaggia temperature range would be more ideal. For light roasts the Silvia may be better but you can always compensate for the temperature on either one by changing how you pull your shots.
Just bought a 2023 model Silvia used for less than 400USD and I am in love with it, coming from a Bambino. PID is on its way but I'm already making better tasting shots.
OMG Great score! I'm looking for a used one now, and I've seen a few good deals on facebook marketplace, but they're always several hours away from me.
The best thing about Lance’s video is that it is in degree Celsius. 😂😂😂 Kidding. I really like the scientific comparison here. Appreciate a substantial long video.
The low price of the gadget is due to the boiler material, and to make a difference compared to the Rancilio Silvia, you install a PID controller. Brass boilers are trendy, but a stainless steel boiler is just as good with a PID controller
The reason you were getting leaks when testing pressure on the Gaggia is because you have a basket in the portafilter. The water is being pushed from the bottom of the portafilter up the side of where the basket contacts the portafilter. I had the same issue when I tested my Silvia with the same method you were using for the Gaggia. Solution is to just not use a basket when testing.
Im a little intimidated about doing gaggiuino mod on my classic, but might bite the bullet and upgrade at the same time as upgrading the boiler to brass, when gaggia makes the standalone parts available.
Thanks this was the best comparison I have seen! I also appreciate that you compared the EU model of the GCP. Are you staying here for a while? It would also love to see you compare single dose grinders competitively priced in the European market too. But most importantly enjoy your trip here!
Oh man I was hoping for this one. I keep going back and forth between which one to buy. Would be sweeet if you can make a video on how to install gaggiuino to the Silvia.
I have both machines. Silvia at home and GCP (aluminium boiler) in the office. Based on my experience, Silvia performs much better, especially in terms of ergonomics and milk steaming. Steaming with Silvia gives me much more consistent results. Milk drinks are the biggest difference for me, and I ´m surprised that Lance doesn’t mention it as a significant difference.
A very well kep secret is the "ito" hardware, which, together with the "leva!" software, allows for modification of many machines, the Silvia being a very popular target. It does PID temperature control, pressure profiling, and gravimetric dosing (with the help of a Bluetooth scale).
@LanceHedrick Butt ugly! I guess Gagguinio has the lead here. The ito on a Silvia has served me well since 2016. The pressure transducers keep dying on though, didn't find the right brand yet, apparently. But you know what? I find myself reaching for the Flair Pro 2 instead these days. Much less parts to service, but even better control over the flow profile.
Do you think the rancillo is stil worth the 200€ more, even if you install an Gaggiuino (on both)? Because then the Rancillo only gives you more capacity and a nicer steam wand, while the gaggia gives you a smaller machine and quicker temperature changes. Or am I missing sth, that would be worth the extra 200?
10 years on my Silvia. Added pid, thing is a tank. Used daily. Its still a great choice for an electric machine. Teetering on the fence for a Robot lever.....
Rancilio have a great track reco4d of taking good decisions, Gaggia are still taking weird decisions like 15bars plastic opv, very very easy to brake btw ... can't wait to see the ?! Sylviaggiano 😊
Hi Lance. Big fan of your channel. Question: I notice that almost all UA-cam espresso videos focus on puck prep, grinders, and espresso machine parameters to optimize a good tasting shot. And they all seem to be in reference extraction of solids(mass transfer) from the bean. I never see any discussion associated with chemical reactions between the heated water and coffee grounds as it flows through the puck. Are there any chemical reactions of importance that occur during the extraction process that could affect flavor? Is there any way to get a directional understanding of process parameters (temp, pressure, flow, etc) that can used to provide guidance to modify these reactions? For example I’ve heard that quintic acid levels can change based on the time at temperature of the espresso which can affect the tastes. There seems to be pretty good alignment that extraction % alone doesn’t guarantee a repeatable or similar taste across grinders and machines. So I expect there are other variables at play and I can’t help but wonder how much chemical reactions play. If there is any merit to coffee chemical reactions when brewing then I think that would be a great topic for a video. Maybe there’s a good reason why chemical reactions are not discussed but figure there’s no harm in asking the question. Please feel free to comment and or/correct any of my comments. Just really trying to better understand the science behind this.
The internals of the Silvia are higher quality, hence the increase in price. The Gaggia, however, is a more beautiful and stealthy machine. Between them, I'd choose the Gaggia. Still, they're both a pass for me. I hate plastic. Great and thorough review. Thank you, Lance.
I got my Rancilio Silvia V5 used for 380€. Manufactured 05.2019 so I got a lot more budget for a grinder. Its just tough to figure out where the minimum limit goes for grinders.
I got mine from a thrift store for 40 dollars 😂 they didn't know what they had. It was an old one from 2004 but still, 40 dollars! And they're not THAT different nowadays and built to last so it's not that big a deal being from 2004.
Do yourselves a favour and don't waste your money on either of these. Get the Turin Legato. I've had mine called the Gemilai 3007L in Australia for 2 years now and it smokes these 2. Stainless Steel, dual boiler, PID, pressure gauge, illumination etc .making multiple coffees for guests is so much easier because you don't have to go through the temperature surfing nightmare you get with these two.
Excellent video, Lance. Santa dropped the Gaggia off to my coffee counter and I've been loving it so far. Happy to hear it stacks up for value by comparison here. Do you have a video or recommendations on a grinder upgrade I can shoot for that pairs well within the realm (and relative budget) of the Gaggia classic pro? I'm currently on the finest grind setting of the Breville Smart Grinder Pro but often find I wish I could go finer (40g in 60g out in 25 seconds is commonly problematic) Thanks!
I wonder how many GCP owners actually use the pressurised basket or ese pod system? If Gaggia insist on retaining this feature, with the 15 bar spring, then they ought to consider taking a leaf out of Rancilio's book, and introduce a 'Gaggia Classic Pro X', with similar spec to their competitor. Not all Gaggia owners feel confident modifying their machines, and some would prefer to pay extra for a factory equipped 'upgrade'. The Silvia Pro / Pro X has done well as a budget dual-boiler machine with PID and ring group. Gaggia seems to be lagging behind, in terms of innovation .. ??
PLeaaaaaaaaase 🙏, can you do the same in depth analysis of temp stability on the lelit anna with brace boiler I think it falls in the same price category
in other words, the next question would be: what's the sweet spot when it comes to a good machine for a good price that doesn't need tweaking? EU:Bianca?
I own a gaggia classic. I've had it for a few years now. What should I upgrad it to? Something that would not brake the bank would be great. I was also thinking on just buying the newest version like in this video but I would love to know your recommendations.
It would be a life-saving experience if you document the Gaggiuino building on the Silvia. There aren't many resources out there. Thank you
100% A comprehensive walkthrough of the mod would be great!
We have some Gaggiuino documentation for Silvia already, though it’s much less than for GC/P. That said, we are still happy to help with Silvia installs in help threads!
The Gaggiuno discord has a lot of resources and I personally found it relatively straightforward when I did a build 1yr ago. The community there is great, and a number of individuals there are true experts of these machines. I had a bunch of hiccups or learnings while doing a full rebuild of the used machine I acquired, and I got tips not only for Gaggiuno but general Silvia repair.
Yes!!
Did the mod on my Silvia using the discord. Tons of resources and people who shared their experiences :)
I have the siliva and it is a beast. When i spoke to the official importer for rancillo machines here in Australia before purchasing he instructed me to work my way up the machine, steam milk first once done release milk steam from
Boiler untill only water comes then brew which drops the temperature down to the correct brewing temperature. Furthermore, once i done this perfect espresso every single time.
Furthermore, they are a costly machine i paid $870 usd but definitely worth it
Four years in and my Silvia runs good as new. Can’t wait to see the Silvia Gaggiuino mod video !
At least in the US, at $900 there's no reason for the Silvia to exist. The Profitec Go at around $1K is light years ahead of it, while the Gaggia E24 with a brass boiler is a viable alternative at half the price.
@@madderall_dot_com 😂
If you do the Gagguinio on the Silvia that would be amazing to see! The whole build process would be best given not many resources are out there for doing the mod on the Silvia
I had the Silvia for years and thought it was built well, but difficult to temperature surf. However, I added a PID, which took less than an hour and it made all the difference. 👍
Hey there, I wanted to put a little correction on the brass-boiler thingy:
2:10 The issue with the 2015-2018 machines were that the solenoid was missing and basically everything got changed, in most cases for a worse part, which made modding very hard.
And since modding was a big part of the appeal, nobody wants it.
Additionally doing away with the solenoid valve was also a huge deal, since that always came with it.
The boiler being stainless steel was a good thing, but it still was a downer overall.
Happy New Year Lance.
Had my Silvia for over 10 years now and outside of my own personal feeling of upgrade-itis I've had zero reasons to upgrade so here I am. Added the PID for a refresh but it's by no means necessary, just helped keep it's longevity in my kitchen. Love my Silvia.
Gagguino is a fantastic way to utilize a used machine. I finally upgraded from a decade of Aeropress to a Rancilio Silvia a year back and have loved it since.
I got a 10yo used machine, immersed myself in the rebuilding community, and stumbled on Gaggiuno. That mod, as well as the entire rebuild and improvements (sound deadening, insulation, burness wand, vinyl wraps, etc.) is easily one of my finest projects and gives me joy every day.
The communities for these very versatile and simple machines are truly stellar to help make giving them a new life (or big boost) possibile ❤
What resource did you use for all of the mods and improvements you performed?
hyped for that Gagguino Video! Am really thinking about doing this on my Silvia.
I have a 12 year old Silvia, she's wonderful, and I love seeing her coming out on top on these comparison videos :)
wow wow wow sir, this video is the most intense and detailed review of any machine! much respect.
Honestly the biggest problem with the Gaggia that nobody talks about is the steam valve wearing out after only a few months of use and starting to drip. Unlike the Silvia it doesn't use a rubber seal, it's just metal on metal.
That's actually something I meant to say and forgot in the massive video lol
@@LanceHedrick Is that fixable? Considering getting a Gaggia and modding it. If it's a simple fix to install a rubber seal, that would make my decision easier.
Metal on metal should be what doesn't wear out, it either fits just right or it doesn't. But that's just what I would expect, and I don't have that machine.
Yes that’s a good point. I have had both and the Gaggia was a bit annoying with a dribbling steam wand. Would always need to put a container under the steam wand. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but something you don’t contend with on the Rancilio.
@@sirchcaep the fix is replacing the whole valve assembly. I think Shades has one with a teflon seat that won't wear out like that.
really excited to hear you're going to do a video on modding the silvia-i have been wanting to try gagguino mod and my preferences have always lead me to believe that i should splurge the extra bit to try it on a silvia, but the lack of official documentation from the gagguino team makes it seem that little bit too intimidating (though i understand they're working hard at providing some in the future)
always great to see you enjoying spresso from machines such as these too considering how you routinely play with some of the more advanced machines out there
Gaggiuino does have some (limited) documentation for Silvia in the Discord, and there are several of us who are happy to help with the install in help threads!
Thanks for doing the temperature test! That is so helpful for people who don't have those tools at home or at least we know it will certainly help us better understand how long to purge water before pulling a shot. If anyone wants to see how the Rancilio Silvia works in real life, we document our home barista journey with our Rancilio Silvia! Thanks Lance for this informative video! :)
If you do the gaggiuino mod in Silvia you will be the savior of many that we want to start in moding
Mark 1 UK Silvia since 2005 still going strong no problems. Surfings a bit of a pfaff but definitely worth that hassle. Opening the steam wand when flicking the steam on forces some water out as steam pressure builds, creating some more headroom, then closing the valve as the water flow dimishes, this gives a drier steam when then purging as you did just before steaming the milk, you can also time the steaming so the boiler is still on when steaming for even more steampower if you want. Looking forward to the Gaggiuino mod, sounds really interesting, would be good to see what's involved and the espresso results. Keep up all the good work. Very informative and engaging
Great video.
I found for steam with the Gaggia that if you start the steam heat just as the brew boiler heat cycles off and purge the water at 10 seconds then begin steaming at 30 seconds the heating element remains on and the steam is dryer. From 175 ml of milk it get only 25 g of water added after steaming. You want to start with a full boiler as the water pump stays off during steaming and keeping the heating element on during steaming gives a dryer steam.
Yes! This exactly. I don't remember where I first learned that trick, but since someone showed me that, I've always had good steam pressure from my Gaggia as long as the heating elements stay on.
US Gaggia Classic Pro E24 (from Whole Latte Love) has 9 bar spring and a latching power switch with no electronics. Been using for a month and really like the quality of espresso and steaming. Nice tips and comparison! Ty Lance.
The spring loaded power spring is a EU requirement. High powered equipment needs a power timeout so it wont stay on for long periods of time without use.
@@EmilBjrn Thanks, that makes sense. My last machine was a Gaggia Baby Twin, and if I weren't an electrical engineer I wouldn't have been able to keep the capacitive touch switches functional for 8 years. With all its electronics, auto shutoff was not a feature.
I am loving having no electronics in this new machine! Not even an LED!! Happy Brewing~
Just ordered a Gaggia Classic Pro E24 from whole latte love. Got it for 450$ on sale! Silvia is 800-900$ here currently in the US. Can’t wait to make some espresso! Been watching your videos for a while now for filter coffee. Now I can finally enjoy my own espresso!
I got one for Christmas and it has been pulling amazing shots. Using techniques found online and a decent basket it started pulling cafe beating shots instantly. And I'm just using a hand grinder lol
I just ordered my E24 for the same deal. I’ve been anxiously waiting for it to arrive.
Silvia could worth that much (even in many EU sites is not cheap), if they renew it with a bigger heating element, a PID/timer, a pressure gauge, bigger/better quality drip tray and same fail safety features, like near empty water and missing tank sensor, internal boiler refill after steaming without wasting water, auto refill boiler during steaming if you do back to back milks. Basically this is what you get with the Lelit Victoria, for not much more.
@@KingLM07 yeah I got the zpresso j ultra. My filter grinder won’t work for espresso. What basket are you using? Trying to decide on what one to get. Don’t really want to spend 200$ on the really fancy ones.
@lukeferrara3110 I got an IMS 18-22g basket bundled with my machine but also ordered a VST 18g basket. It was like 35$ CAD. I can say that a precision basket is a genuine upgrade from the stock gaggia one however unless you have an insane grinder I wouldn't bother with the truly expensive modern baskets.
Thank you, Lance! I love my Gaggia, modded with pressure gauge, pid, dimmer switch, and two rings cut off the opv spring - four years now, still going strong. I have my steam temp set for 140C to 145C, but with the -9 offset, that is really 149C to 154C. I only steam 75ml of milk for a cortado, so I never run out of steam. Right after steaming I run the brew pump to flush the group head with steam until it comes out only water. All good for me, I love it.
Really looking forward for the Silvia Gaggiuino Video. There are not many Silvia Gaggiuino Vids out there yet, only few with the first gen Mini Display. Curious how this will turn out with the silvia.
Two excellent machines and, as you said, both reliable and rapirable. If taken care of both will last you ask long as you need them. Great video Lance.
Love these comparison videos. Very informative.
The teardowns are my favorite part.
I got a Silvia a yesr ago. This video really helps. I dont need to instill a PID coz of the info you shared on about how it's temperature behaves. I'm glad the Silvia is capable of doing light to dark roast with a little bit of temp surfing. Thanks
You don't need to install a PID, but you could do it anyway
Thanks!
Sooooo many videos 🎉 keep up the great work Lance!
Would love to see a comparison with the Lelit Victoria as this is in a similar price range 😅
I cant wait for your Gagguino video. I was just given a Silvia and really want to give it a shot!
great video as always lance ❤
it would be awesome if you could make a video that documents and guides for the gagguino mod made on the rancilio Silva ! 🎉
In Austria the new Gaggia is advertised with a 10,5 bar spring. would be interesting to see if it's really different to the one you got.
Black Classic E24 is gorgeous
Great vid man, keep them coming.
Great video, I'm surprised how hot that Silvia gets, you are going to go through a bit of water to purge that all the time but I love how much space it has to mod, thats a dream! I guess the next Silvia vs Gaggis Classic video would be both modded with Gagguino, but there would be probably less differences there and the Silvia would probably come out on top except its price.
Not another review of the same brands every one reviews. But I get it, it’s what the masses wanted. So many more interesting and unique brands and machines. That is one thing I like about Whole Latte Love they review so many machines to give plenty of choices. Either way I still enjoy most of your content and shared knowledge. But a still well explained and informative review.
What about the profitec go? Would love to see a detailed review of it 😊
Ohhhhhh battle of the legends!
Still think they are so wildly expensive for what they are, but two classics none the less.
Got my silvia v1 for 200 bucks. Completely overhauled everything and isolated everything, let me tell you.
If you know how to temperature surf it makes some damn good Espresso ❤
nicely done, happy new year
You measured 14 bar with the Gaggia?! Now it explains why my GCP E24 sprays everywhere with a bottomless portafilter. I ordered a 9 bar OPV spring which arrived today. It was about time! Great video, thanks for the comparison.
Not sure if the high pressure's the first thing I'd blame for the spraying. But it is a factor, true
@PavelPavlov1 You are right. Grinder and puck prep could also be an issue.
Wouldn't the opv valve value matter only if you are grinding so fine that the pressure would go above the threshold without the valve? For each machine (with their own pumping speed) there is a grind size such that we can reach a pressure lower than the threshold of the valve, right?
that makes sense to me. It is a valve, so only relevant if you let the pressure get too high. I suspect how much you put in basket plus grind size is really way of adjusting pressure. It doesn't have to go to 15 even if your spring can cope with high pressures.
Hi Lance what do you think about the Profitec Go? Happy New Year
It's basically the best single boiler machine on the market. All it lacks is flow control. It's also, like these other budget semi-autos, just a big rectilinear box.
Still underrated
Fresh video for the new year! ☕🎉
OMG he did it! He Really did it!!! Lance, if you read my comment on your last video(or two ago?) mentioning wanting a comparison between these two, I hope it gave you some sort of amusement or joy knowing that you were already at it. Looks like I'm getting a used Silvia, doing a PID mod, and getting some nice wooden upgrades. Thank you for making this, and all of the videos that you make.
Thanks for another amazing video.
Can't Wait to see your gaggiuino mod on the Rancilio. I'm also about to mod with Rancilio with it
The sequence from 10:20 - 10:50 is all I needed to see. A gagguino is less expensive than unmodified Silvia and delivers same or better coffee? Say no more. Plus the Gaggia in black is way sexier looking.
I'll add myself up to the rancilio silvia gaggiuino mod request
it's cool to see these tested without the Gagguino mod, I am not confident in my ability to do the mod atm so I've been dragging my feet a bit, but I have always assumed that if I practice enough I technically do not need the mod
Look forward to the Gaggiaino-ing of that Silvia.
Nice comparison of the two. The Silvia’s ability to accept any commercial portafilter is kind of a major winning point. Why Gaggia has gone a bit proprietary on this is irksome. Still, Gaggia does offer a lot for the price.
It's not a huge deal, it's just that the portafilter handle would sit pointing to the side.
I think after doing Gagguino with Silvia, it would be high time to tackle the elephant in the room- Gagguino vs Decent 😉
Great comparison Lance! Would love to see a comparison of the Profitec Go vs the Silva. GCP dominates the $500 price point, but many seem willing to shell out more for the niceties of the Go (PID, OPV, etc), so curious how it compares to the Silva which is a similar price.
Just bought one
I'm also looking at the Profitec Go. The vibration pump is the only thing making me hesitant. I would love a video on it as well
Add color to the options as well for the Prof Go. It would be nice to avoid fingerprints.
@@jeffb8331 Profitec Go or Silvia were the two machines I was looking at hardest, with a big draw for the Profitec being that it actually comes in nice and fun colors(along with nice features and quality). In the end, it's the depth measurement that I can't get past. It's just going to stick out so far on the counter... Silvia with PID mod it is.
Very informative video. Thanks!
Espresso already has enough variables. I personally wouldn't buy a machine without PID control already built in (my current machine has it). Your summary makes sense and I understand why people would buy a Gaggia for $500 expecting to modify it. The Silvia just seems overpriced in the US even though it appears to be a great, long lasting machine.
I typically don't make milk based drinks. If I were buying a machine for less than $1000 I would probably go for a Lelit Victoria/Anna or Profitec Go or a Breville machine before either of these machines. A Turin Legato V2 would be really tempting even with questions about longevity. That's just me though and its great that there are so many options.
thank you! Waiting for Silvia Gaggiuino detaled video! I tried to find some detailed step-by-step guides for this, but all are too difficult to follow and not straight-forward
I am eagerly awaiting your Rancilio with Gaggiuino. Then, I can follow in your footsteps.
Looking forward to seeing the Gaggiuino mode on the Silvia as I have been rocking mine for over 10 years
Have you gotten your hands on a SMEG Semi pro yet? Do you ever intend to, if not? Would love to hear your thoughts. It's looks great, but SMEG seems to always be form over function.
I agree that the Smeg looks great. But 15 bars with no option to change it?
@c0mbat15 they claim it has a 9 bar opv, but they also claim their grinder can grind espresso, so grain of salt and whatnot.
@@elijahsoczka6996 Thanks. I find it strange that there is a huge lack of reviews for it as it's been available for a while now. Either way, I'm waiting for reviews.
On silvia with medium roast the best time to pull a shot is 30 sec. After light go of ?
For the temperature stability of the GCP how much water did you run through? Is it stable over say a 40 gram shot before it drops?
It would be interesting which one performs best with the Gaggiuino installed !!
Blimey I was just thinking the other day that we should have a comparison between the RS and the new E24 and here you are LOL
I was surprised to hear the higher asking price for the RS in the US which is just crazy and given that Gaggia Direct here in the UK are doing a bundle with an MDF55 (basically a modified Eureka Mignon Specialita) at the moment for only £850 it kinda becomes a no brainer.
Always fancied the Rancilio or a Sage/Breville dual boiler but sadly I just don't have the kitchen real estate so the compactness of the Gaggia has always been a winner, even more now with the brass boiler.
Thanks for doing the comparisson, it kinda confirms what I suspected which is that these two are very similar especially now with the brass boiler in the latest E24 Gaggia.
You should do an episode on some of the starseeker line. They seem to be giving Turin and even have a portable battery pump based machine
For medium or darker roasts sounds like the gaggia temperature range would be more ideal. For light roasts the Silvia may be better but you can always compensate for the temperature on either one by changing how you pull your shots.
Such a sick video!!! Would you take either of these over the ascaso uno pid?
Just bought a 2023 model Silvia used for less than 400USD and I am in love with it, coming from a Bambino. PID is on its way but I'm already making better tasting shots.
OMG Great score! I'm looking for a used one now, and I've seen a few good deals on facebook marketplace, but they're always several hours away from me.
The best thing about Lance’s video is that it is in degree Celsius. 😂😂😂
Kidding. I really like the scientific comparison here. Appreciate a substantial long video.
The low price of the gadget is due to the boiler material, and to make a difference compared to the Rancilio Silvia, you install a PID controller. Brass boilers are trendy, but a stainless steel boiler is just as good with a PID controller
33:03 Oh wow! Fancy cup.
Does anyone know what that is?
I searched for it but only got a link to Lance’s FB which was invalid.
The reason you were getting leaks when testing pressure on the Gaggia is because you have a basket in the portafilter. The water is being pushed from the bottom of the portafilter up the side of where the basket contacts the portafilter. I had the same issue when I tested my Silvia with the same method you were using for the Gaggia. Solution is to just not use a basket when testing.
Im a little intimidated about doing gaggiuino mod on my classic, but might bite the bullet and upgrade at the same time as upgrading the boiler to brass, when gaggia makes the standalone parts available.
I swapped from a evo to a 24.
I am running a nomcore porta and a nonotech basket. No leaks or issues for me.
Thanks this was the best comparison I have seen! I also appreciate that you compared the EU model of the GCP. Are you staying here for a while? It would also love to see you compare single dose grinders competitively priced in the European market too. But most importantly enjoy your trip here!
Oh man I was hoping for this one. I keep going back and forth between which one to buy. Would be sweeet if you can make a video on how to install gaggiuino to the Silvia.
I have both machines. Silvia at home and GCP (aluminium boiler) in the office. Based on my experience, Silvia performs much better, especially in terms of ergonomics and milk steaming. Steaming with Silvia gives me much more consistent results. Milk drinks are the biggest difference for me, and I ´m surprised that Lance doesn’t mention it as a significant difference.
A very well kep secret is the "ito" hardware, which, together with the "leva!" software, allows for modification of many machines, the Silvia being a very popular target. It does PID temperature control, pressure profiling, and gravimetric dosing (with the help of a Bluetooth scale).
I'm familiar. The ui is very ugly lol
@LanceHedrick Butt ugly! I guess Gagguinio has the lead here. The ito on a Silvia has served me well since 2016. The pressure transducers keep dying on though, didn't find the right brand yet, apparently.
But you know what? I find myself reaching for the Flair Pro 2 instead these days. Much less parts to service, but even better control over the flow profile.
I’m in the Rancilio team but GCP it’s also a nice machine. Thanks for that really complete review of both machines!
Is your product good? I am planning to buy one, but the review comments are scared me.
what would be the best reasonable pair grunder for any of this 2?
I had a Rancillio Silvia for many years
Nice comparison! Looking forward to see the gagguino mod on the silivia :D
It’s the second of January and already we have GODZILLA vs GIDORAH
Do you think the rancillo is stil worth the 200€ more, even if you install an Gaggiuino (on both)? Because then the Rancillo only gives you more capacity and a nicer steam wand, while the gaggia gives you a smaller machine and quicker temperature changes. Or am I missing sth, that would be worth the extra 200?
10 years on my Silvia. Added pid, thing is a tank. Used daily. Its still a great choice for an electric machine. Teetering on the fence for a Robot lever.....
Rancilio have a great track reco4d of taking good decisions, Gaggia are still taking weird decisions like 15bars plastic opv, very very easy to brake btw ... can't wait to see the ?! Sylviaggiano 😊
Hi Lance. Big fan of your channel.
Question: I notice that almost all UA-cam espresso videos focus on puck prep, grinders, and espresso machine parameters to optimize a good tasting shot. And they all seem to be in reference extraction of solids(mass transfer) from the bean. I never see any discussion associated with chemical reactions between the heated water and coffee grounds as it flows through the puck. Are there any chemical reactions of importance that occur during the extraction process that could affect flavor? Is there any way to get a directional understanding of process parameters (temp, pressure, flow, etc) that can used to provide guidance to modify these reactions?
For example I’ve heard that quintic acid levels can change based on the time at temperature of the espresso which can affect the tastes.
There seems to be pretty good alignment that extraction % alone doesn’t guarantee a repeatable or similar taste across grinders and machines. So I expect there are other variables at play and I can’t help but wonder how much chemical reactions play.
If there is any merit to coffee chemical reactions when brewing then I think that would be a great topic for a video. Maybe there’s a good reason why chemical reactions are not discussed but figure there’s no harm in asking the question.
Please feel free to comment and or/correct any of my comments. Just really trying to better understand the science behind this.
The internals of the Silvia are higher quality, hence the increase in price. The Gaggia, however, is a more beautiful and stealthy machine. Between them, I'd choose the Gaggia. Still, they're both a pass for me. I hate plastic. Great and thorough review. Thank you, Lance.
I got my Rancilio Silvia V5 used for 380€. Manufactured 05.2019 so I got a lot more budget for a grinder. Its just tough to figure out where the minimum limit goes for grinders.
I got mine from a thrift store for 40 dollars 😂 they didn't know what they had. It was an old one from 2004 but still, 40 dollars! And they're not THAT different nowadays and built to last so it's not that big a deal being from 2004.
Do yourselves a favour and don't waste your money on either of these. Get the Turin Legato. I've had mine called the Gemilai 3007L in Australia for 2 years now and it smokes these 2. Stainless Steel, dual boiler, PID, pressure gauge, illumination etc .making multiple coffees for guests is so much easier because you don't have to go through the temperature surfing nightmare you get with these two.
Slight correction: it’s not a dual boiler, but “Combined Single Brew Boiler and Thermoblock” with 2 independent PID’s
Can I ask were did you source it from? I in Aussie too can’t seem to google an A$ price or retailer? Thanks
Excellent video, Lance. Santa dropped the Gaggia off to my coffee counter and I've been loving it so far. Happy to hear it stacks up for value by comparison here. Do you have a video or recommendations on a grinder upgrade I can shoot for that pairs well within the realm (and relative budget) of the Gaggia classic pro? I'm currently on the finest grind setting of the Breville Smart Grinder Pro but often find I wish I could go finer (40g in 60g out in 25 seconds is commonly problematic)
Thanks!
I wonder how many GCP owners actually use the pressurised basket or ese pod system? If Gaggia insist on retaining this feature, with the 15 bar spring, then they ought to consider taking a leaf out of Rancilio's book, and introduce a 'Gaggia Classic Pro X', with similar spec to their competitor. Not all Gaggia owners feel confident modifying their machines, and some would prefer to pay extra for a factory equipped 'upgrade'. The Silvia Pro / Pro X has done well as a budget dual-boiler machine with PID and ring group. Gaggia seems to be lagging behind, in terms of innovation .. ??
Nowadays all those people just uses Nespresso
Went with the Gaggia Evo and it's been great
PLeaaaaaaaaase 🙏, can you do the same in depth analysis of temp stability on the lelit anna with brace boiler I think it falls in the same price category
Can’t wait to see the rancillio-weeno vs an auber pid
To avoid the leaks when measuring pressure, make sure to put in the portafilter WITHOUT the basket!
@henrymhp i did that first lol was much worse
The Gaggia better win cuz I’ve already bought one… it’s being shipped and I’d love to know I made the right decision before it gets here.
Edit… the Silvia is not within the budget even if it were better lol. Carry on
@@Rydoge7I’m considering returning my e24. $300 isn’t going to break the bank.
@@reactionsok wellllllll.... $300 would for me.
To measure the pressure in Gaggia you need to do it without basket.
I did that. Doesn't seal.
in other words, the next question would be: what's the sweet spot when it comes to a good machine for a good price that doesn't need tweaking? EU:Bianca?
Profitec Go
Which bottomless portafilter would you recommend for the Gaggia?
if lance does not answer and you want a reccomendation from a random internet dude: i use the one from Normcore for my Gaggia and i like it.
@ Honestly this was just a question for anyone haha. I appreciate it!
happy new year! any plans to cover the Meraki now that it's actually launched?
Waiting for it to arrive. Backed it on kickstarter
Hi lance what about the Silvia vs the Go?
I own a gaggia classic. I've had it for a few years now. What should I upgrad it to? Something that would not brake the bank would be great. I was also thinking on just buying the newest version like in this video but I would love to know your recommendations.
If you can do the Gaggiuino mod, you'll get more value from your current machine than you would from replacing it.
Love my GCP E24 to death :)